Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
User avatar
aemoreira1981
Posts: 3636
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:17 am

Re: WOW Financial Discussion Thread

Sat Dec 15, 2018 9:15 pm

workhorse wrote:
Does anyone have an idea on which frames are going and which are staying?


They're down to 16 planes right now. TF-GAY is definitely going back to ICBC. I'd expect the A20N to go back as well, and as for A321s...possibly some of the four UTair-owned frames (lease managed by Vnesheconombank), which would then be re-marketed on UTair's behalf. (UTair also owns 4 of Airblue's 5 A321s, and I believe 1 of Air Travel's 2 A321s; another one to Air Travel plus two A321s now with S7 were sold to other lessors).
 
workhorse
Posts: 823
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2005 11:35 pm

Re: WOW Financial Discussion Thread

Sat Dec 15, 2018 9:41 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
They're down to 16 planes right now. TF-GAY is definitely going back to ICBC. I'd expect the A20N to go back as well, and as for A321s...possibly some of the four UTair-owned frames (lease managed by Vnesheconombank), which would then be re-marketed on UTair's behalf. (UTair also owns 4 of Airblue's 5 A321s, and I believe 1 of Air Travel's 2 A321s; another one to Air Travel plus two A321s now with S7 were sold to other lessors).


Totally agree about the 320. It's an oddball in the fleet now and because it is probably easy to re-market because it's a neo.

As for the 321s, I guess the two neos are the easiest to re-market but maybe Wow would like to keep them for KEF-YVR if it restarts indeed.

Do you think that VEB are easier to negotiate with than with other lessors?
 
Natflyer
Posts: 647
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 9:29 pm

Re: WOW Financial Discussion Thread

Sat Dec 15, 2018 10:23 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
workhorse wrote:
Does anyone have an idea on which frames are going and which are staying?


They're down to 16 planes right now. TF-GAY is definitely going back to ICBC. I'd expect the A20N to go back as well, and as for A321s...possibly some of the four UTair-owned frames (lease managed by Vnesheconombank), which would then be re-marketed on UTair's behalf. (UTair also owns 4 of Airblue's 5 A321s, and I believe 1 of Air Travel's 2 A321s; another one to Air Travel plus two A321s now with S7 were sold to other lessors).


TF-GPA positioned to MIA on Dec 3rd and has not flown since. Someone mentioned a wet-lease, but it is taking its time. Repaint? Or being returned?
 
User avatar
aemoreira1981
Posts: 3636
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:17 am

Re: WOW Financial Discussion Thread

Sat Dec 15, 2018 10:29 pm

Natflyer wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
workhorse wrote:
Does anyone have an idea on which frames are going and which are staying?


They're down to 16 planes right now. TF-GAY is definitely going back to ICBC. I'd expect the A20N to go back as well, and as for A321s...possibly some of the four UTair-owned frames (lease managed by Vnesheconombank), which would then be re-marketed on UTair's behalf. (UTair also owns 4 of Airblue's 5 A321s, and I believe 1 of Air Travel's 2 A321s; another one to Air Travel plus two A321s now with S7 were sold to other lessors).


TF-GPA positioned to MIA on Dec 3rd and has not flown since. Someone mentioned a wet-lease, but it is taking its time. Repaint? Or being returned?


That was a LATAM NTU originally. The lessor was ALC, but were they managing the frame for LATAM, with LATAM now ready to take back the frame?
 
arcticcruiser
Posts: 457
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 2:16 pm

Re: WOW Financial Discussion Thread

Thu Dec 20, 2018 4:37 pm

Wow air claims to have sold Gatwick slots but declines to name buyer and price.
https://www.mbl.is/vidskipti/frettir/20 ... a_gatwick/

How much can this be worth (AFAIK 8 slots) and who could the buyer be?

They claim relocating to STN gives them the opportunity to grow in the UK market. Rrrright.
 
SurfandSnow
Posts: 1591
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:09 am

Re: WOW Financial Discussion Thread

Thu Dec 20, 2018 7:19 pm

arcticcruiser wrote:
Wow air claims to have sold Gatwick slots but declines to name buyer and price.
https://www.mbl.is/vidskipti/frettir/20 ... a_gatwick/

How much can this be worth (AFAIK 8 slots) and who could the buyer be?

They claim relocating to STN gives them the opportunity to grow in the UK market. Rrrright.


I see the process of shifting ops to a cheaper alternative has begun. I've never understood how or why such an ULCC airline would operate from such congested, costly primary airports. It will be interesting to see if this also happens in the U.S... why go head to head with 2 competitors on the KEF-EWR route when they serve the Tri-State Area market via (a) hassle-free niche airport(s) like SWF and/or ISP instead?!?
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
 
User avatar
SRQKEF
Topic Author
Posts: 1952
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:10 pm

Re: WOW Financial Discussion Thread

Fri Dec 21, 2018 11:26 am

4 A321s have been sold to Air Canada, apparently they're all aircraft that joined the fleet in 2014:

http://www.visir.is/g/2018181229776/fjo ... air-canada
Nothing compares to taking off in an empty 757 with full thrust!
 
pmanni1
Posts: 252
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:17 am

Re: WOW Financial Discussion Thread

Fri Dec 21, 2018 12:09 pm

SurfandSnow wrote:
arcticcruiser wrote:
Wow air claims to have sold Gatwick slots but declines to name buyer and price.
https://www.mbl.is/vidskipti/frettir/20 ... a_gatwick/

How much can this be worth (AFAIK 8 slots) and who could the buyer be?

They claim relocating to STN gives them the opportunity to grow in the UK market. Rrrright.


I see the process of shifting ops to a cheaper alternative has begun. I've never understood how or why such an ULCC airline would operate from such congested, costly primary airports. It will be interesting to see if this also happens in the U.S... why go head to head with 2 competitors on the KEF-EWR route when they serve the Tri-State Area market via (a) hassle-free niche airport(s) like SWF and/or ISP instead?!?

Congested is the key word. Foreign carriers need to be wear the population is. Foreign travelers don't want to land at airports that are nearly 2 hours from Manhattan. Not even sure if these airports have customs.
 
fcogafa
Posts: 1288
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 4:37 pm

Re: WOW Financial Discussion Thread

Fri Dec 21, 2018 12:57 pm

arcticcruiser wrote:
Wow air claims to have sold Gatwick slots but declines to name buyer and price.


Rumoured to be Wizz Air who are starting a LGW-BUD service with the slots
 
User avatar
hvusslax
Posts: 420
Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2015 7:35 pm

Re: WOW Financial Discussion Thread

Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:24 pm

arcticcruiser wrote:
They claim relocating to STN gives them the opportunity to grow in the UK market. Rrrright.


I sometimes wonder if the people writing these corporate releases actually realize how incredibly ridiculous they can sound. How is it possible say with a straight face that relocating to a less convenient London airport is somehow an "opportunity to grow"?
 
Newbiepilot
Posts: 3642
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2016 10:18 pm

Re: WOW Financial Discussion Thread

Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:03 pm

fcogafa wrote:
arcticcruiser wrote:
Wow air claims to have sold Gatwick slots but declines to name buyer and price.


Rumoured to be Wizz Air who are starting a LGW-BUD service with the slots


Could Indigo Partners be coming in to raid/purchase some of WOW’s assets?
 
debonair
Posts: 3901
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 10:50 pm

Re: WOW Financial Discussion Thread

Sun Dec 23, 2018 11:10 pm

nomorerjs wrote:
WW won’t be flying by summer 2019. Every week or every two weeks they cut a route or two. It’s only a matter of time before BWI and DTW are cut and than it will end.


DTW is now gone as well, after Los Angeles, San Francisco, New York JFK already axed.
https://eu.usatoday.com/story/travel/fl ... 397088002/
 
Lapplander800
Posts: 97
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2018 4:56 pm

Re: WOW Financial Discussion Thread

Mon Dec 24, 2018 1:50 am

debonair wrote:
DTW is now gone as well, after Los Angeles, San Francisco, New York JFK already axed.
https://eu.usatoday.com/story/travel/fl ... 397088002/


I read in that article; DFW cancelled, DTW remaining.
 
F27500
Posts: 831
Joined: Sun May 07, 2017 12:52 am

Re: WOW Financial Discussion Thread

Mon Dec 24, 2018 4:19 am

and how do we say "Liquidation" in Icelandic?
 
bennett123
Posts: 10034
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Re: WOW Financial Discussion Thread

Mon Dec 24, 2018 9:26 am

How many aircraft do they own?.

However, I can see that STN could be cheaper/more profitable than LTW. It is also a slightly shorter flight.

SRQKEF

Which A321 joined in 2014?.
 
arcticcruiser
Posts: 457
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 2:16 pm

Re: WOW Financial Discussion Thread

Mon Dec 24, 2018 10:24 am

bennett123 wrote:
How many aircraft do they own?.


Not a single one really, all on various types of leases.
 
User avatar
SRQKEF
Topic Author
Posts: 1952
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:10 pm

Re: WOW Financial Discussion Thread

Mon Dec 24, 2018 1:11 pm

F27500 wrote:
and how do we say "Liquidation" in Icelandic?


Gjaldþrot. ;)

bennett123 wrote:
SRQKEF
Which A321 joined in 2014?.


The first A321s joined in 2015, but TF-KID, -SON, -DAD and -MOM are all 2013- or 2014-builds. The rest of the fleet consists of newer aircraft, so those are probably the four aircraft.
Nothing compares to taking off in an empty 757 with full thrust!
 
bennett123
Posts: 10034
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Re: WOW Financial Discussion Thread

Mon Dec 24, 2018 1:31 pm

Google translation

WOW air has sold four Airbus aircraft to the airline Air Canada. The announcement from the company states that WOW's cash position will improve by USD 12 million, about ISK 1.4 billion, through the sale.

"The board of WOW air has approved this transaction, but this sale is part of the restructuring of the company, but the fleet has been reduced in order to increase efficiency, reduce the seasonal fluctuation and maximize profitability.

These are Airbus A321 engines that WOW air has been on lease since 2014. The machines will be delivered in January 2019, ”the announcement says.

According to Skúli Mogensen, CEO and founder of WOW air, this is a very positive and important step in the company's restructuring, as the fleet is being reduced and the company's liquidity is improved.

Part of the streamlining measures announced by WOW in recent weeks, in conjunction with the company's adaptation to Indigo Partners LLC's operating model, was airline cutbacks. The airline's fleet is expected to decrease by half, leaving 11 aircraft remaining.

At the end of last month, it was also reported that WOW would dispose of four Airbus engines, two Airbus A320s and two Airbus A330s - "engines that would not have been useful in the WOW air winter program," as it was termed . There were two of the smallest aircraft in the fleet and two of them were the largest.
 
debonair
Posts: 3901
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 10:50 pm

Re: WOW Financial Discussion Thread

Mon Dec 24, 2018 2:02 pm

bennett123 wrote:
WOW air has sold four Airbus aircraft to the airline Air Canada.


One of the affected aircraft, TF-MOM, is subleased to ARUBA AIRLINES... Will be interesting to see, what will happen!

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/tf-mom
 
bennett123
Posts: 10034
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Re: WOW Financial Discussion Thread

Mon Dec 24, 2018 3:34 pm

There is a second thread on this subject with a link to ch aviation.

They indicate the same four aircraft.
 
workhorse
Posts: 823
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2005 11:35 pm

Re: WOW Financial Discussion Thread

Mon Dec 24, 2018 7:37 pm

Sorry, I must be missing something, but how Wow can sell anything to Air Canada? They don't own any of these planes, VEB does, right?

So should we rather read this article as "Wow managed to get out of the leasing contract with VEB and VEB leased these planes to Air Canada." or as "Wow managed to get out of the leasing contract with VEB and VEB sold these planes to Air Canada."?
 
[email protected]
Posts: 16616
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:29 pm

Re: WOW Financial Discussion Thread

Mon Dec 24, 2018 7:44 pm

Four A321s - TF-MOM, -DAD, -KID, -SON - are on finance leases, the others - including 320s and 330s - are all on dry leases. Source: slide 15 of https://kjarninn.overcastcdn.com/docume ... esound.pdf
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
User avatar
william
Posts: 3350
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 1999 1:31 pm

Re: WOW Financial Discussion Thread

Mon Dec 24, 2018 9:08 pm

So if one was a passenger on the new cancelled flights, do they get a refund, rebooked by WOW? In all my years of flying I have never ran into this situation before.
 
debonair
Posts: 3901
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 10:50 pm

Re: WOW Financial Discussion Thread

Mon Dec 24, 2018 10:52 pm

william wrote:
So if one was a passenger on the new cancelled flights, do they get a refund, rebooked by WOW? In all my years of flying I have never ran into this situation before.


Refund only, rebooking under EU law AFAIK within 14days b4 departure date. But none route is cancelled less than 14days to go.
 
Speedalive
Posts: 166
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2016 7:09 pm

Re: WOW Financial Discussion Thread

Mon Dec 24, 2018 11:19 pm

[email protected] wrote:
Four A321s - TF-MOM, -DAD, -KID, -SON - are on finance leases, the others - including 320s and 330s - are all on dry leases. Source: slide 15 of https://kjarninn.overcastcdn.com/docume ... esound.pdf

Sending away the whole family lol
 
User avatar
SRQKEF
Topic Author
Posts: 1952
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:10 pm

Re: WOW Financial Discussion Thread

Tue Dec 25, 2018 1:57 pm

Speedalive wrote:
[email protected] wrote:
Four A321s - TF-MOM, -DAD, -KID, -SON - are on finance leases, the others - including 320s and 330s - are all on dry leases. Source: slide 15 of https://kjarninn.overcastcdn.com/docume ... esound.pdf

Sending away the whole family lol


Poor grandma, grandpa and the pets (-GMA, -GPA, -DOG, -CAT) are the only ones left! ;)

A320s -BRO and -SIS have already left the fleet as well.
Nothing compares to taking off in an empty 757 with full thrust!
 
Ryanair01
Posts: 485
Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2013 9:27 pm

Re: WOW Financial Discussion Thread

Tue Dec 25, 2018 4:13 pm

workhorse wrote:
Sorry, I must be missing something, but how Wow can sell anything to Air Canada? They don't own any of these planes, VEB does, right?

So should we rather read this article as "Wow managed to get out of the leasing contract with VEB and VEB leased these planes to Air Canada." or as "Wow managed to get out of the leasing contract with VEB and VEB sold these planes to Air Canada."?


No not quite. These aircraft are funded by a Finance Lease, which is (kind of) like a mortgage. A Finance Lease is treated like a type of loan, but (typically) the lessee (i.e. Wow) doesn't get ownership until all the money is paid fully off, when they (again typically) can choose to either (a) for a nominal fee take full ownership or (b) return the aircraft. VEB owns the Finance Lease, but typically the aircraft is considered the lessee's asset sat on their balance sheet, with future payments classed as a liability.

So essentially Air Canada is buying from Wow, the right to own these aircraft outright when the lease period runs out (which has a value), the aircraft will be classed as Air Canada's assets when they take delivery, although in the meantime they'll need to pay VEB's charges.

I've simplified it, but that's broadly what you'd expect.
 
minilinde
Posts: 212
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2005 1:16 am

Re: WOW Financial Discussion Thread

Tue Dec 25, 2018 4:50 pm

Very interesting to read through the financial presentation. I know that it is prior to the sell off of "assets" and down-scaling in general... They "expected" a +12 % RASK improvement which is really ridicules. Will be interesting to see how they will spin it next time around, if there will be a next time that is...
Types flown: A220, A318, A319, A320, A321, A32N, A333, A343, A359, A380, AT42, AT72, B717, B733, B735, B736, B737, B738, B739, B744, B748, B763, B772, B773, B788, B789, C550, CRJ2, CRJ9, DH4D, F50, ERJ190, MD80s/90, RJ100
 
Jshank83
Posts: 3597
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: WOW Financial Discussion Thread

Tue Dec 25, 2018 5:04 pm

Can someone sum up all what has happened. I can go thru the thread and try to piece it all together but if I could get a summary that would be great.

Parts I am trying to figure out:

What North American airports are they still going to have service to next summer?
How many planes will they have left now? Still the 11? or is it less?
 
minilinde
Posts: 212
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2005 1:16 am

Re: WOW Financial Discussion Thread

Tue Dec 25, 2018 5:51 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
What North American airports are they still going to have service to next summer?
How many planes will they have left now? Still the 11? or is it less?


Q1: I don't have the complete list, but they have axed JFK, SFO and LAX.
Q2: No, the 4 aircraft that are leaving for AC is part of the 9 aircraft leaving. The fleet is going from 20 to 11.
Types flown: A220, A318, A319, A320, A321, A32N, A333, A343, A359, A380, AT42, AT72, B717, B733, B735, B736, B737, B738, B739, B744, B748, B763, B772, B773, B788, B789, C550, CRJ2, CRJ9, DH4D, F50, ERJ190, MD80s/90, RJ100
 
User avatar
SRQKEF
Topic Author
Posts: 1952
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:10 pm

Re: WOW Financial Discussion Thread

Tue Dec 25, 2018 6:20 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
Can someone sum up all what has happened. I can go thru the thread and try to piece it all together but if I could get a summary that would be great.

Parts I am trying to figure out:

What North American airports are they still going to have service to next summer?
How many planes will they have left now? Still the 11? or is it less?


AFAIK, it's EWR, BWI, YYZ, YUL, DTW and BOS.

They've axed JFK, ORD, STL, CLE, CVG, PIT, DFW, YVR, MCO, DFW, SFO and LAX. They also once served MIA for a year or so.
Nothing compares to taking off in an empty 757 with full thrust!
 
Natflyer
Posts: 647
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 9:29 pm

Re: WOW Financial Discussion Thread

Tue Dec 25, 2018 7:16 pm

debonair wrote:
william wrote:
So if one was a passenger on the new cancelled flights, do they get a refund, rebooked by WOW? In all my years of flying I have never ran into this situation before.


Refund only, rebooking under EU law AFAIK within 14days b4 departure date. But none route is cancelled less than 14days to go.


No. ICETRA, the Icelandic Transport Authority has decided WOW air must EITHER offer ALTERNATE flights OR refund as the customer wishes. Gonna’ cost them dearly.
 
Jshank83
Posts: 3597
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: WOW Financial Discussion Thread

Tue Dec 25, 2018 9:28 pm

SRQKEF wrote:

AFAIK, it's EWR, BWI, YYZ, YUL, DTW and BOS.

They've axed JFK, ORD, STL, CLE, CVG, PIT, DFW, YVR, MCO, DFW, SFO and LAX. They also once served MIA for a year or so.


minilinde wrote:

Q1: I don't have the complete list, but they have axed JFK, SFO and LAX.
Q2: No, the 4 aircraft that are leaving for AC is part of the 9 aircraft leaving. The fleet is going from 20 to 11.


Thanks for clearing all that up.
 
workhorse
Posts: 823
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2005 11:35 pm

Re: WOW Financial Discussion Thread

Wed Dec 26, 2018 12:54 pm

Ryanair01 wrote:
These aircraft are funded by a Finance Lease, which is (kind of) like a mortgage. A Finance Lease is treated like a type of loan, but (typically) the lessee (i.e. Wow) doesn't get ownership until all the money is paid fully off, when they (again typically) can choose to either (a) for a nominal fee take full ownership or (b) return the aircraft. VEB owns the Finance Lease, but typically the aircraft is considered the lessee's asset sat on their balance sheet, with future payments classed as a liability.

So essentially Air Canada is buying from Wow, the right to own these aircraft outright when the lease period runs out (which has a value), the aircraft will be classed as Air Canada's assets when they take delivery, although in the meantime they'll need to pay VEB's charges.

I've simplified it, but that's broadly what you'd expect.


That's very clear, thank you. Can we assume that the 12 million USD mentioned in the press release is what Air Canada has paid to Wow to buy this right to own these aircraft outright when the lease period runs out?

In other words, does that means that Wow:

1) gets 3 million USD in cash for each aircraft
2) gets rid of further payments to do to VEB

and Air Canada pays:

1) 3 million USD for each aircraft
2) whatever is left to pay to VEB (= total price that Wow agreed with VEB upon - what Wow has already paid)

?
 
User avatar
SRQKEF
Topic Author
Posts: 1952
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:10 pm

Re: WOW Financial Discussion Thread

Wed Dec 26, 2018 7:16 pm

workhorse wrote:
Ryanair01 wrote:
These aircraft are funded by a Finance Lease, which is (kind of) like a mortgage. A Finance Lease is treated like a type of loan, but (typically) the lessee (i.e. Wow) doesn't get ownership until all the money is paid fully off, when they (again typically) can choose to either (a) for a nominal fee take full ownership or (b) return the aircraft. VEB owns the Finance Lease, but typically the aircraft is considered the lessee's asset sat on their balance sheet, with future payments classed as a liability.

So essentially Air Canada is buying from Wow, the right to own these aircraft outright when the lease period runs out (which has a value), the aircraft will be classed as Air Canada's assets when they take delivery, although in the meantime they'll need to pay VEB's charges.

I've simplified it, but that's broadly what you'd expect.


That's very clear, thank you. Can we assume that the 12 million USD mentioned in the press release is what Air Canada has paid to Wow to buy this right to own these aircraft outright when the lease period runs out?

In other words, does that means that Wow:

1) gets 3 million USD in cash for each aircraft
2) gets rid of further payments to do to VEB

and Air Canada pays:

1) 3 million USD for each aircraft
2) whatever is left to pay to VEB (= total price that Wow agreed with VEB upon - what Wow has already paid)

?


I'd assume that's correct.
Nothing compares to taking off in an empty 757 with full thrust!
 
caaardiff
Posts: 203
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2006 3:14 am

Re: WOW Financial Discussion Thread

Sat Dec 29, 2018 3:31 pm

This is what is currently on sale on wowair.com. All flights are from a week in June and shown as weekly frequencies.
BOS x7 **
ORD x7
DTW x4
EWR x14 (x7 A330)
BWI x7
YYZ x7 **
YUL x7 **

A321 - AMS x14, TXL x12(**x7 Non Prem), CPH x12 (**x7 Non Prem), DUB x12 (**x7 Non prem), FRA x12 (**x7 Non Prem), CDG x14 (7 on A330), BRU x7, STN x7**
TFS x2, TLV x3,
A320 - EDI x3, ALC x4, BCN x4, DUS x3, LYS x4, MXP x3, ARN x4, WAW x2

According to what's currently on sale the fleet would look like;
2x A320
13x A321 (x5 Non Prem / 7x Prem with 36 rows / 1x Prem with 37 rows)
1x A330
Total:16 aircraft
On a Friday there is a requirement for 2 more aircraft to operate to Europe. With 1 departure to AMS showing A330, when there's already a CDG & EWR, and a rogue European flight on the 1130 bank.
Each day there is currently a requirement of 4 aircraft where they only operate x1 European flight each day. 3 of these are the 1130 departure bank with 1 being the 0600 departure bank.

North America departures vary between 1520-1550, 1720 (YUL) & 2030-2050 (EWR&ORD)

If there is to be a reduction to 11 aircraft, there's likely going to be a lot more schedule changes, mainly to the European departures, to make it fit.
 
Natflyer
Posts: 647
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 9:29 pm

Re: WOW Financial Discussion Thread

Sat Dec 29, 2018 7:26 pm

caaardiff wrote:
This is what is currently on sale on wowair.com. All flights are from a week in June and shown as weekly frequencies.
BOS x7 **
ORD x7
DTW x4
EWR x14 (x7 A330)
BWI x7
YYZ x7 **
YUL x7 **

A321 - AMS x14, TXL x12(**x7 Non Prem), CPH x12 (**x7 Non Prem), DUB x12 (**x7 Non prem), FRA x12 (**x7 Non Prem), CDG x14 (7 on A330), BRU x7, STN x7**
TFS x2, TLV x3,
A320 - EDI x3, ALC x4, BCN x4, DUS x3, LYS x4, MXP x3, ARN x4, WAW x2

According to what's currently on sale the fleet would look like;
2x A320
13x A321 (x5 Non Prem / 7x Prem with 36 rows / 1x Prem with 37 rows)
1x A330
Total:16 aircraft
On a Friday there is a requirement for 2 more aircraft to operate to Europe. With 1 departure to AMS showing A330, when there's already a CDG & EWR, and a rogue European flight on the 1130 bank.
Each day there is currently a requirement of 4 aircraft where they only operate x1 European flight each day. 3 of these are the 1130 departure bank with 1 being the 0600 departure bank.

North America departures vary between 1520-1550, 1720 (YUL) & 2030-2050 (EWR&ORD)

If there is to be a reduction to 11 aircraft, there's likely going to be a lot more schedule changes, mainly to the European departures, to make it fit.


This looks like quite a bit more flying than 11 aircraft can make. Looks like more than 170 rotations out of KEF whereas each airplane can make 2 each day excluding some maintenance downtime. And there is not going to be an A330, so this is by no means a final schedule. I actually thought they had dropped ORD.
 
Natflyer
Posts: 647
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 9:29 pm

Re: WOW Financial Discussion Thread

Sat Dec 29, 2018 7:28 pm

Natflyer wrote:
caaardiff wrote:
This is what is currently on sale on wowair.com. All flights are from a week in June and shown as weekly frequencies.
BOS x7 **
ORD x7
DTW x4
EWR x14 (x7 A330)
BWI x7
YYZ x7 **
YUL x7 **

A321 - AMS x14, TXL x12(**x7 Non Prem), CPH x12 (**x7 Non Prem), DUB x12 (**x7 Non prem), FRA x12 (**x7 Non Prem), CDG x14 (7 on A330), BRU x7, STN x7**
TFS x2, TLV x3,
A320 - EDI x3, ALC x4, BCN x4, DUS x3, LYS x4, MXP x3, ARN x4, WAW x2

According to what's currently on sale the fleet would look like;
2x A320
13x A321 (x5 Non Prem / 7x Prem with 36 rows / 1x Prem with 37 rows)
1x A330
Total:16 aircraft
On a Friday there is a requirement for 2 more aircraft to operate to Europe. With 1 departure to AMS showing A330, when there's already a CDG & EWR, and a rogue European flight on the 1130 bank.
Each day there is currently a requirement of 4 aircraft where they only operate x1 European flight each day. 3 of these are the 1130 departure bank with 1 being the 0600 departure bank.

North America departures vary between 1520-1550, 1720 (YUL) & 2030-2050 (EWR&ORD)

If there is to be a reduction to 11 aircraft, there's likely going to be a lot more schedule changes, mainly to the European departures, to make it fit.


This looks like quite a bit more flying than 11 aircraft can make. Looks like more than 170 rotations out of KEF whereas each airplane can make 2 each day excluding some maintenance downtime. And there is not going to be an A330, so this is by no means a final schedule. I actually thought they had dropped ORD per post above. I also doubt they will operate two banks with the smaller fleet.
 
User avatar
klm617
Posts: 5241
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: WOW Financial Discussion Thread

Thu Jan 03, 2019 7:10 pm

Was wondering how WOW Air is doing operationally. It seems that they are running pretty good at staying on time much better than a year ago.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
Natflyer
Posts: 647
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 9:29 pm

Re: WOW Financial Discussion Thread

Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:11 pm

klm617 wrote:
Was wondering how WOW Air is doing operationally. It seems that they are running pretty good at staying on time much better than a year ago.


Pretty much both of their banks 1-2 hours behind today, creating issues for other operators. http://www.airport.is
 
346fetish
Posts: 54
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:00 am

Re: WOW Financial Discussion Thread

Fri Jan 04, 2019 3:03 pm

SRQKEF wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
Can someone sum up all what has happened. I can go thru the thread and try to piece it all together but if I could get a summary that would be great.

Parts I am trying to figure out:

What North American airports are they still going to have service to next summer?
How many planes will they have left now? Still the 11? or is it less?


AFAIK, it's EWR, BWI, YYZ, YUL, DTW and BOS.

They've axed JFK, ORD, STL, CLE, CVG, PIT, DFW, YVR, MCO, DFW, SFO and LAX. They also once served MIA for a year or so.


YVR still shows in the reservation system but without any inventory. Odd.
"BA have got waterfalls in their head office. The only time we have waterfalls in the Ryanair office is when the toilet leaks."
 
karan14695
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:15 pm

Re: WOW Financial Discussion Thread

Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:13 pm

Which airline(s) are the two ex-WOW Air A333s heading to?
 
a350lover
Posts: 899
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:21 am

Re: WOW Financial Discussion Thread

Fri Jan 04, 2019 6:48 pm

[quote="caaardiff"]
According to what's currently on sale the fleet would look like;
2x A320
13x A321 (x5 Non Prem / 7x Prem with 36 rows / 1x Prem with 37 rows)
1x A330
Total:16 aircraft
[quote="caaardiff"]


Silly thing to keep 1 single A330 which generates somehow like an extra sub-fleet. Keep it all narrowbody and fingers crossed WOW!
 
devron
Posts: 367
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:56 am

Re: WOW Financial Discussion Thread

Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:22 pm

Just read some reviews for WOW and these are down the drain for this airline, can't imagine a lot of people currently booking with them. doesn't look good for there future income.
 
Natflyer
Posts: 647
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 9:29 pm

Re: WOW Financial Discussion Thread

Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:22 pm

WOW air COO Ragnhildur Geirsdottir has left for greener and (safer) pastures...
 
User avatar
SRQKEF
Topic Author
Posts: 1952
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:10 pm

Re: WOW Financial Discussion Thread

Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:07 pm

a350lover wrote:
caaardiff wrote:
According to what's currently on sale the fleet would look like;
2x A320
13x A321 (x5 Non Prem / 7x Prem with 36 rows / 1x Prem with 37 rows)
1x A330
Total:16 aircraft
caaardiff wrote:


Silly thing to keep 1 single A330 which generates somehow like an extra sub-fleet. Keep it all narrowbody and fingers crossed WOW!


It leaves the fleet at the end of January, the booking system just hasn't been updated to reflect that.
Nothing compares to taking off in an empty 757 with full thrust!
 
User avatar
hvusslax
Posts: 420
Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2015 7:35 pm

Re: WOW Financial Discussion Thread

Sat Jan 05, 2019 1:06 pm

caaardiff wrote:
This is what is currently on sale on wowair.com. All flights are from a week in June and shown as weekly frequencies.
BOS x7 **
ORD x7
DTW x4
EWR x14 (x7 A330)
BWI x7
YYZ x7 **
YUL x7 **

A321 - AMS x14, TXL x12(**x7 Non Prem), CPH x12 (**x7 Non Prem), DUB x12 (**x7 Non prem), FRA x12 (**x7 Non Prem), CDG x14 (7 on A330), BRU x7, STN x7**
TFS x2, TLV x3,
A320 - EDI x3, ALC x4, BCN x4, DUS x3, LYS x4, MXP x3, ARN x4, WAW x2

According to what's currently on sale the fleet would look like;
2x A320
13x A321 (x5 Non Prem / 7x Prem with 36 rows / 1x Prem with 37 rows)
1x A330
Total:16 aircraft
On a Friday there is a requirement for 2 more aircraft to operate to Europe. With 1 departure to AMS showing A330, when there's already a CDG & EWR, and a rogue European flight on the 1130 bank.
Each day there is currently a requirement of 4 aircraft where they only operate x1 European flight each day. 3 of these are the 1130 departure bank with 1 being the 0600 departure bank.

North America departures vary between 1520-1550, 1720 (YUL) & 2030-2050 (EWR&ORD)

If there is to be a reduction to 11 aircraft, there's likely going to be a lot more schedule changes, mainly to the European departures, to make it fit.


I don't expect ORD and the second daily EWR flight to remain. Only two America-bound flights seem like an unsustainable second bank.
 
mcg
Posts: 1110
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2003 11:49 am

Re: WOW Financial Discussion Thread

Sat Jan 05, 2019 4:24 pm

Ryanair01 wrote:
workhorse wrote:
Sorry, I must be missing something, but how Wow can sell anything to Air Canada? They don't own any of these planes, VEB does, right?

So should we rather read this article as "Wow managed to get out of the leasing contract with VEB and VEB leased these planes to Air Canada." or as "Wow managed to get out of the leasing contract with VEB and VEB sold these planes to Air Canada."?


No not quite. These aircraft are funded by a Finance Lease, which is (kind of) like a mortgage. A Finance Lease is treated like a type of loan, but (typically) the lessee (i.e. Wow) doesn't get ownership until all the money is paid fully off, when they (again typically) can choose to either (a) for a nominal fee take full ownership or (b) return the aircraft. VEB owns the Finance Lease, but typically the aircraft is considered the lessee's asset sat on their balance sheet, with future payments classed as a liability.

So essentially Air Canada is buying from Wow, the right to own these aircraft outright when the lease period runs out (which has a value), the aircraft will be classed as Air Canada's assets when they take delivery, although in the meantime they'll need to pay VEB's charges.

I've simplified it, but that's broadly what you'd expect.


Very well put.
 
factsonly
Posts: 2994
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:08 pm

Re: WOW Financial Discussion Thread

Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:11 am

Sunday, January 6th, 2019:

In the A333 days, WOW's largest European destinations were AMS and CDG, both with 2x daily A333/A321 services in Summer.
Now the A333 aircraft have been returned to lessors, it seems WOW is combining the two destinations with extra capacity to handle A333 volume bookings.

- WOW 444 REK-AMS A321 TF-JOY
- WOW 404 REK-CDG A321 TF-GMA
- WOW 442 REK-AMS-CDG-KEF A321 TF-KID

The final A333 TF-GAY is operating REK-DEL and REK-LAX at present.
 
scandinavian590
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:32 pm

Re: WOW Financial Discussion Thread

Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:32 am

factsonly wrote:
Sunday, January 6th, 2019:

In the A333 days, WOW's largest European destinations were AMS and CDG, both with 2x daily A333/A321 services in Summer.
Now the A333 aircraft have been returned to lessors, it seems WOW is combining the two destinations with extra capacity to handle A333 volume bookings.

- WOW 444 REK-AMS A321 TF-JOY
- WOW 404 REK-CDG A321 TF-GMA
- WOW 442 REK-AMS-CDG-KEF A321 TF-KID

The final A333 TF-GAY is operating REK-DEL and REK-LAX at present.


Combining two destinations in one flight sounds rather like a capacity decrease to cope with lower bookings. As I understand, there's one A321-rotation to each destination, while the second A321-rotation has become a triangular flight. Since you don't quote any timeframe, it could also be a one-off operational measure.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos