LHUSA
Posts: 751
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 10:15 am

Re: WOW Financial Discussion Thread

Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:43 pm

LHA320 wrote:
Does anyone know their load factors? Are they flying around with half empty A321? I remember they were founded with the idea of offering cheap TATL via KEF, seems like the overestimated the demand...


Demand isn't the issue. They even create demand at the prices they charge. The issue is covering costs at that price. Their LFs are generally very high.
 
UPNYGuy
Posts: 267
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Re: WOW Financial Discussion Thread

Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:59 pm

LHUSA wrote:
LHA320 wrote:
Does anyone know their load factors? Are they flying around with half empty A321? I remember they were founded with the idea of offering cheap TATL via KEF, seems like the overestimated the demand...


Demand isn't the issue. They even create demand at the prices they charge. The issue is covering costs at that price. Their LFs are generally very high.


I’ll agree with the “creating demand” statement. My wife and I flew to Edinburgh in Jan ‘18 for shits and giggles and spent a weekend there solely due to the fares wow was running.
 
McG1967
Posts: 528
Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2006 2:36 am

Re: WOW Financial Discussion Thread

Tue Mar 26, 2019 7:06 pm

On EDI-KEF, WOW were up against easyJet as the incumbent carrier, with AA, DL, UA and Norwegian all offering non stop flights to the USA at the time.

FI fly GLA-KEF where they have no competition to KEF and the transatlantic flights out of GLA are seasonal summer only.
 
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SRQKEF
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Re: WOW Financial Discussion Thread

Tue Mar 26, 2019 7:08 pm

McG1967 wrote:
On EDI-KEF, WOW were up against easyJet as the incumbent carrier, with AA, DL, UA and Norwegian all offering non stop flights to the USA at the time.

FI fly GLA-KEF where they have no competition to KEF and the transatlantic flights out of GLA are seasonal summer only.


GLA is also one of the smaller markets FI is most established in, along with airports such as MSP, BOS, OSL etc. It has even used it as a scissor hub when things go wrong in Iceland (weather/volcano related).
Nothing compares to taking off in an empty 757 with full thrust!
 
prebennorholm
Posts: 6918
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Re: WOW Financial Discussion Thread

Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:10 am

UPNYGuy wrote:
…. when I said “too big to fail” I was talking about what the debt would do to Iceland if they went bust, not the size of the fleet. Should have said (weird as it sounds) too bankrupt to fail in a country with a small GDP. But you are correct though... might cause things to balance out.

Should they fail, and as presumed with a 9 digit debt, then maybe only a minor part of that loss will be related to Iceland. Some of the creditors are foreign leasing companies, fuel companies, airports, handling companies, maintenance companies etc. It wouldn't surprise me if foreign companies in that case would suffer by far the major part of the losses.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
Lapplander800
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Re: WOW Financial Discussion Thread

Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:36 am

McG1967 wrote:
FI fly GLA-KEF where they have no competition to KEF and the transatlantic flights out of GLA are seasonal summer only.


In recent memory there have not been many winter suspensions for FI (2011-13 perhaps, for a while it was a triangle with MAN) on the GLA route. My memory tells me these were exceptions rather than the norm.

Yes, the US connection in KEF is longer than most EU flights due to the short flight time. On the return from the US it is as with any other flights.
 
Lapplander800
Posts: 85
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Re: WOW Financial Discussion Thread

Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:45 am

UPNYGuy wrote:
I was talking about what the debt would do to Iceland if they went bust, not the size of the fleet. Should have said (weird as it sounds) too bankrupt to fail in a country with a small GDP. But you are correct though... might cause things to balance out.


The debt is certainly a factor as it can pull other companies with it in the fall. The larger issues are direct and indirect unemployment and fewer tourists traveling to Iceland which have in recent years been propelled by commercially unsustainable airfares. It will always be painful to go through a correction like that.
 
A330
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Re: WOW Financial Discussion Thread

Wed Mar 27, 2019 5:21 am

Just for info,
WOW is not that large in terms of revenue.

Revenue wise, Air Atlanta Icelandic (AAI) is BY FAR the biggest earner and the airline making the most profit in Iceland, followed at a large distance by Icelandair.
Shiek!
 
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spinkid
Posts: 1864
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Re: WOW Financial Discussion Thread

Wed Mar 27, 2019 5:51 am

A330 wrote:
Just for info,
WOW is not that large in terms of revenue.

Revenue wise, Air Atlanta Icelandic (AAI) is BY FAR the biggest earner and the airline making the most profit in Iceland, followed at a large distance by Icelandair.



They are a cargo carrier however.
 
A330
Posts: 709
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Re: WOW Financial Discussion Thread

Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:44 am

No, they are NOT.
Air Atlanta Icelandic’s main focus, revenue and fleet is the Passenger operation, with both B747-400 and A340.
Shiek!
 
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SRQKEF
Topic Author
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Re: WOW Financial Discussion Thread

Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:50 am

A330 wrote:
No, they are NOT.
Air Atlanta Icelandic’s main focus, revenue and fleet is the Passenger operation, with both B747-400 and A340.


Huh?

They're ostensibly a charter airline/leasing outfit, mostly focusing on 747Fs and Haji 747s. They don't have, and never did have, any A340s. Not sure what you're on about here...
Nothing compares to taking off in an empty 757 with full thrust!
 
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Polot
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Re: WOW Financial Discussion Thread

Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:59 am

I find it hard to believe that Air Atlanta Icelandic has more revenue than Icelandair.
 
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hvusslax
Posts: 382
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Re: WOW Financial Discussion Thread

Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:59 am

A330 wrote:
Just for info,
WOW is not that large in terms of revenue.

Revenue wise, Air Atlanta Icelandic (AAI) is BY FAR the biggest earner and the airline making the most profit in Iceland, followed at a large distance by Icelandair.


You should check your sources again. Icelandair Group had more than six times the revenues of Air Atlanta in 2017 (1419 million USD vs 224 million USD).
 
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kelvin933
Posts: 449
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Re: WOW Financial Discussion Thread

Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:02 am

SRQKEF wrote:
A330 wrote:
No, they are NOT.
Air Atlanta Icelandic’s main focus, revenue and fleet is the Passenger operation, with both B747-400 and A340.


Huh?

They're ostensibly a charter airline/leasing outfit, mostly focusing on 747Fs and Haji 747s. They don't have, and never did have, any A340s. Not sure what you're on about here...

They operated an A340 on behalf of Air Madagascar, the A340 was leased from Air France.
“Nations have no permanent friends or allies, they only have permanent interests.”
 
Lapplander800
Posts: 85
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2018 4:56 pm

Re: WOW Financial Discussion Thread

Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:33 am

hvusslax wrote:
A330 wrote:
Just for info,
WOW is not that large in terms of revenue.

Revenue wise, Air Atlanta Icelandic (AAI) is BY FAR the biggest earner and the airline making the most profit in Iceland, followed at a large distance by Icelandair.


You should check your sources again. Icelandair Group had more than six times the revenues of Air Atlanta in 2017 (1419 million USD vs 224 million USD).


Regardless, AAI's revenue can be assumed to have much less effect on the Icelandic economy than any equally sized airline that actually flies to Iceland and whose buisness it is to shovel tourists to Iceland.
 
A330
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Re: WOW Financial Discussion Thread

Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:42 am

SRQKEF wrote:
A330 wrote:
No, they are NOT.
Air Atlanta Icelandic’s main focus, revenue and fleet is the Passenger operation, with both B747-400 and A340.


Huh?

They're ostensibly a charter airline/leasing outfit, mostly focusing on 747Fs and Haji 747s. They don't have, and never did have, any A340s. Not sure what you're on about here...


My dear , as a Captain for AAI, I do think I know which aircraft are in our fleet...
TF-EAB, currently undergoing maintenance but back Operating next week.

Also, most flights with our passenger aircraft are nowadays regular Scheduled flights for SV, combined with Umrah and during the season, indeed exclusively Hajj.
Shiek!
 
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SRQKEF
Topic Author
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Re: WOW Financial Discussion Thread

Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:55 am

A330 wrote:
SRQKEF wrote:
A330 wrote:
No, they are NOT.
Air Atlanta Icelandic’s main focus, revenue and fleet is the Passenger operation, with both B747-400 and A340.


Huh?

They're ostensibly a charter airline/leasing outfit, mostly focusing on 747Fs and Haji 747s. They don't have, and never did have, any A340s. Not sure what you're on about here...


My dear , as a Captain for AAI, I do think I know which aircraft are in our fleet...
TF-EAB, currently undergoing maintenance but back Operating next week.

Also, most flights with our passenger aircraft are nowadays regular Scheduled flights for SV, combined with Umrah and during the season, indeed exclusively Hajj.


Sorry, I forgot about -EAB! Just went by the fleetpage on the AAI website.

But regardless, as mentioned above, FI had 6 times more revenue than CC in 2017, plus their operations (and WOW's for that matter) don't have too much effects on the Icelandic economy as they don't fly pax/freight to or from Iceland on a regular basis.

As an aside, perhaps the favorite flights in my log are AAI 742s/743s to the Canary Islands, Spain and Portugal in the early 2000s, sitting in the nose or on the UD. :cloudnine:
Nothing compares to taking off in an empty 757 with full thrust!
 
whywhyzee
Posts: 1010
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:12 am

Re: WOW Financial Discussion Thread

Thu Mar 28, 2019 2:32 am

It seems they have no airplanes airborne right now. None of the North American flights left to head back to Iceland, and are all pretty much showing cancelled. I believe the end has come.
 
strangeplanes
Posts: 73
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2018 6:16 pm

Re: WOW Financial Discussion Thread

Thu Mar 28, 2019 2:52 am

whywhyzee wrote:
It seems they have no airplanes airborne right now. None of the North American flights left to head back to Iceland, and are all pretty much showing cancelled. I believe the end has come.

Is it a KEF issue? I am seeing many delays over at Icelandair.

Update: it looks like there is a snow storm over KEF.
 
Mainland
Posts: 273
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 3:17 pm

Re: WOW Financial Discussion Thread

Thu Mar 28, 2019 2:58 am

But the FI flights from North America are all en route without (or with little) issue....
You don't need a passport to know what state you're in...
 
Jshank83
Posts: 2677
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: WOW Financial Discussion Thread

Thu Mar 28, 2019 2:58 am

A bunch are in route now, although the Icelandair flight from MCO seems to be turning back. It was already almost thru Canada.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/ICE688
 
strangeplanes
Posts: 73
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2018 6:16 pm

Re: WOW Financial Discussion Thread

Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:04 am

[threeid][/threeid]
Mainland wrote:
But the FI flights from North America are all en route without (or with little) issue....

I guess this may be the end then.

Twitter is painting an interesting picture of the current events. Sounds like passengers were told the flights were being delayed multiple times. Bags were loaded onto planes and WOW brought in food for the pax. Pax told that the network was running behind and then that the network was being reset.

Update: a few folks on twitter (waiting for their flights) mentioned the airline was going under and that they are bankrupt.
 
strangeplanes
Posts: 73
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WOW Airlines Officially Done

Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:19 am

Per Twitter and Facebook and etc - all flights have been cancelled, some planes repossessed, gate agents no where to be seen.
 
airtrantpa
Posts: 231
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Re: WOW Airlines Officially Done

Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:21 am

Source?
AVL my new Hometown airport! Farewell TPA
 
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stl07
Posts: 1415
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Re: WOW Airlines Officially Done

Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:24 am

strangeplanes wrote:
Per Twitter and Facebook and etc - all flights have been cancelled, some planes repossessed, gate agents no where to be seen.

Do you have a link
Interesting how every thread is spammed with "bring back paid membership, there are too many spammers"
 
Ishrion
Posts: 688
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: WOW Airlines Officially Done

Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:26 am

Where does it say that? I'm not seeing it on their Twitter/Facebook. Although, none of their planes are flying it seems?...
 
TTailedTiger
Posts: 1160
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Re: WOW Airlines Officially Done

Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:26 am

No big surprise. I won't miss their ugly paint scheme.
 
UPNYGuy
Posts: 267
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:14 pm

Re: WOW Airlines Officially Done

Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:27 am

strangeplanes wrote:
Per Twitter and Facebook and etc - all flights have been cancelled, some planes repossessed, gate agents no where to be seen.


They must be cleaning the social network feeds. The 2 repossessions have been discussed. Are there more now? Can’t say that’s surprising if so.
 
UPNYGuy
Posts: 267
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:14 pm

Re: WOW Airlines Officially Done

Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:27 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
No big surprise. I won't miss their ugly paint scheme.


I actually liked the livery. Different from the usual eurowhite.
 
asuflyer
Posts: 426
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Re: WOW Airlines Officially Done

Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:28 am

TF-JOY was repossessed at YUL earlier this evening.
 
many321
Posts: 282
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:15 am

Re: WOW Airlines Officially Done

Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:28 am

Checked Twitter and only see some posts of people sayings its going bankrupt and of people waiting at the airport.
 
WayexTDI
Posts: 990
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Re: WOW Airlines Officially Done

Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:31 am

airtrantpa wrote:
Source?

This feeds the rumors. Are they founded though?
 
strangeplanes
Posts: 73
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2018 6:16 pm

Re: WOW Airlines Officially Done

Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:32 am

http://www.ruv.is/frett/flug-stodvad-a- ... avidraedna


An official announcement will be made at 9am in Iceland. (6 hours from now)
Last edited by strangeplanes on Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
9w748capt
Posts: 1554
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:27 am

Re: WOW Airlines Officially Done

Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:33 am

From their official website:

"WOW air is in the final stages of finalizing equity raise with a group of investors. All flights have been postponed until documentation with all parties involved have been finalized.
Further information will be given at 9 am.
All passengers have been informed via text message/email to the contact details listed in the booking. Passengers scheduled on flights to/from Iceland with WOW air on Thursday March 28th are entitled to cancel their reservation for a full refund or change their reservation to the next available WOW air flight.

WOW air apologizes for the disruption to travel plans."

So if they're closing up shop, they're not admitting it ... yet!
 
UPNYGuy
Posts: 267
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Re: WOW Airlines Officially Done

Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:38 am

 
strangeplanes
Posts: 73
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2018 6:16 pm

Re: WOW Airlines Officially Done

Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:40 am

UPNYGuy wrote:
https://www.icelandreview.com/news/indigo-partners-reconsiders-wow-purchase/

The plot thickens

So an 11th hour offer from Indigo is on the table? It sounds like they either get an investment or they are done.

A solvent airline doesn’t have to close down shop to negotiate a deal. I am sure tonight’s cancellations would have been the end had Indigo not stepped back up to the plate.
Last edited by strangeplanes on Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:44 am, edited 2 times in total.
 
UPNYGuy
Posts: 267
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:14 pm

Re: WOW Airlines Officially Done

Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:43 am

strangeplanes wrote:
UPNYGuy wrote:
https://www.icelandreview.com/news/indigo-partners-reconsiders-wow-purchase/

The plot thickens

So an 11th hour offer from Indigo is on the table? It sounds like they either get an investment or they are done.


yup
 
BrianWilkes
Posts: 32
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Re: WOW Airlines Officially Done

Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:43 am

They won't last through this!
 
UPNYGuy
Posts: 267
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Re: WOW Airlines Officially Done

Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:51 am

9w748capt wrote:
From their official website:

"WOW air is in the final stages of finalizing equity raise with a group of investors. All flights have been postponed until documentation with all parties involved have been finalized.
Further information will be given at 9 am.
All passengers have been informed via text message/email to the contact details listed in the booking. Passengers scheduled on flights to/from Iceland with WOW air on Thursday March 28th are entitled to cancel their reservation for a full refund or change their reservation to the next available WOW air flight.

WOW air apologizes for the disruption to travel plans."

So if they're closing up shop, they're not admitting it ... yet!


The way that blurb reads, they don’t have the finances to operate beyond today. And they are toast if Indigo walks again.
 
kyrone
Posts: 149
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 1:56 pm

Re: WOW Airlines Officially Done

Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:52 am

So they are negotiating at like 4am? Why would they halt two days of operations last minute like that........ this seems so mismanaged...

It doesn’t add up, I feel terrible for the people effected by this....
Last edited by kyrone on Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
filipinoavgeek
Posts: 188
Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2019 1:18 am

Re: WOW Airlines Officially Done

Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:57 am

Wait why is the title "WOW Airlines Officially Done" if they're not dead just yet? Shouldn't the thread be renamed?
 
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Runway28L
Posts: 1668
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:35 pm

Re: WOW Airlines Officially Done

Thu Mar 28, 2019 4:01 am

Looks like this is literally do or die for WW. Really hoping for the best outcome, especially for the employees. Their pilots and FAs are truly some of the nicest I've met.

Also, could we please have the thread title changed? Very misleading as WW isn't necessarily out of business yet.
Last edited by Runway28L on Thu Mar 28, 2019 4:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
Greetings from KPIT! Check out my photos here: https://www.airliners.net/search?user=45 ... teAccepted
 
strangeplanes
Posts: 73
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Re: WOW Airlines Officially Done

Thu Mar 28, 2019 4:01 am

filipinoavgeek wrote:
Wait why is the title "WOW Airlines Officially Done" if they're not dead just yet? Shouldn't the thread be renamed?

The airline is insolvent. They don’t have the funds to continue operations. The airline cancelled all of their flights and is done operating. Operationally they have closed up shop.

WOW is claiming to be in talks with Indigo (at 4am) but those talks ,if successful, would restart the dead airline.
 
pnutt
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:17 am

Re: WOW Financial Discussion Thread

Thu Mar 28, 2019 4:08 am

Statement posted on wowair.com now:
"TRAVEL ALERT
WOW air is in the final stages of finalizing equity raise with a group of investors. All flights have been postponed until documentation with all parties involved have been finalized.
Further information will be given at 9 am."
 
juliuswong
Moderator
Posts: 1596
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:22 am

Re: WOW Airlines Officially Done

Thu Mar 28, 2019 4:10 am

Officially on their website. God bless all staff and passengers.

https://wowair.com/travel-alert/?_ga=2. ... 1553745004
- Life is a journey, travel it well -
 
eaa3
Posts: 937
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:49 am

Re: WOW Airlines Officially Done

Thu Mar 28, 2019 4:14 am

Maybe wait until 9am to make any pronouncements?
 
juliuswong
Moderator
Posts: 1596
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:22 am

Re: WOW Financial Discussion Thread

Thu Mar 28, 2019 4:15 am

On theri website now: https://wowair.com/travel-alert/?_ga=2. ... 1553745004

God bless all staff and passengers,. hope they pull through.
- Life is a journey, travel it well -
 
BravoEcho757
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2019 7:24 pm

Re: WOW Airlines Officially Done

Thu Mar 28, 2019 4:18 am

Best wishes for all the employees affected by this. I had a Great-Uncle who went through this when he was Braniff and the anticipation of the inevitable end is what drove him nuts.
 
SXDFC
Posts: 1938
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 6:07 pm

Re: WOW Airlines Officially Done

Thu Mar 28, 2019 4:26 am

IF they survive and manage to pick up another aircraft. Registration should be “TF-IOU”
 
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LAX772LR
Posts: 12196
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: WOW Airlines Officially Done

Thu Mar 28, 2019 4:34 am

This thread is misnamed.

It's not official yet. Would be somewhat surprising if it isn't very soon... but it still isn't, as of now.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil

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