Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
SRQKEF wrote:Dieuwer wrote:It just wasn’t executed correctly, and the A330s, especially the A330neo’s, along with all the statements about becoming “not just bigger than Icelandair but bigger than SAS”, show he became overambitious.
AirCalSNA wrote:It's interesting to me as someone not in the industry that an immediate shutdown is how this played out here. Couldn't Wow have looked down the road and realized the end was near and set a date in the near future--a day or two or a week even--when operations would stop? Some people would still be stranded, but not as many as they have left in a predicament today. Perhaps announcing an imminent shutdown is worse since it is likely cause all sorts of panic, anger, etc., that ends up burning what little money is left even faster. Or is this the norm?
Gulfstream500 wrote:I hope that JetBlue will take advantage of this, and take the extra gates/capacity at KEF to make a small scissor hub.
klm617 wrote:SRQKEF wrote:a350lover wrote:
Considering only 1 out of 10 planes is at home.... does anyone know what's the current situation of the crews down route?
FI is flying all stranded WOW crews home for free today/tonight.
Priceless first they help put WOW Air out of business and cause these people to lose their jobs and then fly them home for free very tacky.
Jshank83 wrote:Gulfstream500 wrote:I hope that JetBlue will take advantage of this, and take the extra gates/capacity at KEF to make a small scissor hub.
Can US airlines fly Europe to Europe? I thought they had to start or end in the US?
akb88 wrote:And it took Icelandair all of 10 seconds to increase their fares by 100%
Gulfstream500 wrote:I hope that JetBlue will take advantage of this, and take the extra gates/capacity at KEF to make a small scissor hub.
lowfareair wrote:Crazy if it is approved - I think this will put Norwegian as the last independent ULCC with a decent network across the Atlantic (for now).
The most interesting this is that it values Wow at about 1/19th of Icelandair (WOW shareholders and debtholders would get 5.4% of the combined company) - is WOW really in that much financial trouble relative to Icelandair?
voiceofgoa wrote:SRQKEF wrote:Dieuwer wrote:It just wasn’t executed correctly, and the A330s, especially the A330neo’s, along with all the statements about becoming “not just bigger than Icelandair but bigger than SAS”, show he became overambitious.
Overambitious? I think the word you’re looking for is “delusional.”
SoCalFlyer wrote:How many slots did they have at key airports such as FRA, CDG,AMS?
PW100 wrote:akb88 wrote:And it took Icelandair all of 10 seconds to increase their fares by 100%
If those fares were not sustainable for WOW, what makes you believe they would be sustainable for FI?
SoCalFlyer wrote:How many slots did they have at key airports such as FRA, CDG,AMS?
jimbo737 wrote:Sooner787 wrote:Virgin Atlantic just posted on their Facebook page they're offering
special " Rescue fares" to WW pax stranded by the shutdown.
Great move by VS. What they lose in short term revenue
will be made up by long term goodwill
Lose a little on every seat but make it up with volume. It's worked brilliantly for years. WOW is the current poster child for said strategy.
WOW once again established that the longhaul market can quite easily be stimulated with non-compensatory fares.
The trick is to be able to accomplish this with compensatory fares.
Easy to talk about, very difficult to achieve.
klm617 wrote:SRQKEF wrote:a350lover wrote:
Considering only 1 out of 10 planes is at home.... does anyone know what's the current situation of the crews down route?
FI is flying all stranded WOW crews home for free today/tonight.
Priceless first they help put WOW Air out of business and cause these people to lose their jobs and then fly them home for free very tacky.
MAH4546 wrote:Jshank83 wrote:Gulfstream500 wrote:I hope that JetBlue will take advantage of this, and take the extra gates/capacity at KEF to make a small scissor hub.
Can US airlines fly Europe to Europe? I thought they had to start or end in the US?
Yes, just not within the same country.
Though the thought that JetBlue "should take advantage of this" is absurdity.
MAH4546 wrote:Jshank83 wrote:Gulfstream500 wrote:I hope that JetBlue will take advantage of this, and take the extra gates/capacity at KEF to make a small scissor hub.
Can US airlines fly Europe to Europe? I thought they had to start or end in the US?
Yes, just not within the same country.
Though the thought that JetBlue "should take advantage of this" is absurdity.
N383SW wrote:klm617 wrote:SRQKEF wrote:
FI is flying all stranded WOW crews home for free today/tonight.
Priceless first they help put WOW Air out of business and cause these people to lose their jobs and then fly them home for free very tacky.
What?!?!?! How did they help put WW out of business? How did they cause anyone to lose their jobs?? And please explain how it's tacky that FI is going to fly the crew members home... FOR FREE?!?!? I mean I read your posts about your beloved DTW and the horrible, mean Delta but what planet do you reside on??
santi319 wrote:MAH4546 wrote:Jshank83 wrote:
Can US airlines fly Europe to Europe? I thought they had to start or end in the US?
Yes, just not within the same country.
Though the thought that JetBlue "should take advantage of this" is absurdity.
Ok now Jetblue flying to Europe is imminent!
klm617 wrote:N383SW wrote:klm617 wrote:
Priceless first they help put WOW Air out of business and cause these people to lose their jobs and then fly them home for free very tacky.
What?!?!?! How did they help put WW out of business? How did they cause anyone to lose their jobs?? And please explain how it's tacky that FI is going to fly the crew members home... FOR FREE?!?!? I mean I read your posts about your beloved DTW and the horrible, mean Delta but what planet do you reside on??
Icelandair should have kept their nose out. They had no intention of helping WOW and kept them on a string and then when they saw the chance to capture all the summer traffic for themselves they pulled the plug.
Dieuwer wrote:SRQKEF wrote:Dieuwer wrote:The question now becomes whether another crooked Scandinavian CEO will fool investors and pax alike and start another ULCC that will survive for a couple of years before folding.
I don’t think calling Skuli crooked is fair. Sure, he lost alot of money for his investors, but he also put all his personal money into the company and has almost nothing left after the bankruptcy. His reasons for starting WOW were idealistic and came from a good place. It just wasn’t executed correctly, and the A330s, especially the A330neo’s, along with all the statements about becoming “not just bigger than Icelandair but bigger than SAS”, show he became overambitious.
Really? How about Primera Air. Another Scandinavian airline that folded recently. How about Norwegian? Not in the best financial shape either.
ELBOB wrote:okjet wrote:Now official, WW is over
WOW Air was not an IATA member so referring to them as WW is incorrect.
akb88 wrote:Icelander here too. Just booked flights to NY this morning at prices way higher than few days ago when I checked. Should have booked then, but oh well.
Detroit313 wrote:Norwegian next please!
klm617 wrote:senatorflyer wrote:klm617 wrote:
If you live outside the major markets travel is outragesly expensive.
Detroit to London for GBP 430 with AA/BA, not exactly outragesly expensive. You could have it 20 pounds cheaper if don’t want to fly AA.
Looks like AA might be my new airline of choice in the future.
grbauc wrote:PW100 wrote:akb88 wrote:And it took Icelandair all of 10 seconds to increase their fares by 100%
If those fares were not sustainable for WOW, what makes you believe they would be sustainable for FI?
This kind of thinking that air travel should be borderline free and that airlines are evil and shouldn't make any money makes me scratch my head sometime. I started traveling 24 years ago and airfares are close to the same and cheaper on lots of routes. I can fly FC to pretty much anywhere in the USA first class for under 1k. Small, medium and large airports alike.
SRQKEF wrote:klm617 wrote:N383SW wrote:
What?!?!?! How did they help put WW out of business? How did they cause anyone to lose their jobs?? And please explain how it's tacky that FI is going to fly the crew members home... FOR FREE?!?!? I mean I read your posts about your beloved DTW and the horrible, mean Delta but what planet do you reside on??
Icelandair should have kept their nose out. They had no intention of helping WOW and kept them on a string and then when they saw the chance to capture all the summer traffic for themselves they pulled the plug.
Just so you know, it was WOW that called FI with a desperate plea for help. Twice. Not the other way around. So no, FI was never keeping WOW on a string. Both those times FI did their due diligence in a matter of days, and both times they unfortunately didn’t see any way the risk was worth it. One can maybe argue that Indigo Partners kept WOW on a string, but in reality the reason for WOW’s downfall is only WOW itself.
aemoreira1981 wrote:Dieuwer wrote:SRQKEF wrote:
I don’t think calling Skuli crooked is fair. Sure, he lost alot of money for his investors, but he also put all his personal money into the company and has almost nothing left after the bankruptcy. His reasons for starting WOW were idealistic and came from a good place. It just wasn’t executed correctly, and the A330s, especially the A330neo’s, along with all the statements about becoming “not just bigger than Icelandair but bigger than SAS”, show he became overambitious.
Really? How about Primera Air. Another Scandinavian airline that folded recently. How about Norwegian? Not in the best financial shape either.
Norwegian has assets though. 10 Dreamliners (3 B788s and 7 B789s) of 34 Boeing 787s are owned, and 103 of 129 Boeing 737 aircraft (92 B738s, and 11 B38M) currently delivered are owned. The MAX 8 grounding has increased the value of its owned Boeing 737-800 aircraft. If Norwegian needs cash, it can enter into sale-leaseback deals. (Norwegian's headquarters are technically leased, but the lessor is majority-owned by Norwegian's CEO.) Primera Air's entire fleet was leased, as was WOW air's fleet.
The MAX grounding has delayed the sale of 6 Boeing 737-800 aircraft, but Norwegian could get more money by putting planes up for dry lease once the grounding ends (LATAM Airlines Group has been doing this, dry-leasing out both excess A320 and A350 capacity). That's a potential gold mine for Arctic Aviation Assets (a Norwegian company).
spinkid wrote:Who will pick up the slack besides Icelandair? They are light on aircraft, so it won't be easy for them. WOW showed that a few markets can support more capacity.
I think certain U.S. cities could support service to KEF like 3x weekly with that as the destination. Some places have the O & D to make it work. I would love to see a U.S. LCC or UlCC pick up the slack
Or perhaps Norwegian. They are short aircraft at the moment and not flying several of their MAX routes, but can they legally fly KEF to USA?
FlyingElvii wrote:Detroit313 wrote:Norwegian next please!
WOW folding is likely the salvation of Norwegian TATL.
Iluvtofly wrote:grbauc wrote:PW100 wrote:If those fares were not sustainable for WOW, what makes you believe they would be sustainable for FI?
This kind of thinking that air travel should be borderline free and that airlines are evil and shouldn't make any money makes me scratch my head sometime. I started traveling 24 years ago and airfares are close to the same and cheaper on lots of routes. I can fly FC to pretty much anywhere in the USA first class for under 1k. Small, medium and large airports alike.
Are you talking about domestic USA ....flying so called FC in the USA is nothing more than a pathetic joke compared to the rest of the airlines offering FC. A hamburger on a New York Miami flight is hardly what the rest of the world calls 1st class.
spinkid wrote:Who will pick up the slack besides Icelandair? They are light on aircraft, so it won't be easy for them. WOW showed that a few markets can support more capacity.
I think certain U.S. cities could support service to KEF like 3x weekly with that as the destination. Some places have the O & D to make it work. I would love to see a U.S. LCC or UlCC pick up the slack
Or perhaps Norwegian. They are short aircraft at the moment and not flying several of their MAX routes, but can they legally fly KEF to USA?
spinkid wrote:Who will pick up the slack besides Icelandair? They are light on aircraft, so it won't be easy for them. WOW showed that a few markets can support more capacity.
I think certain U.S. cities could support service to KEF like 3x weekly with that as the destination. Some places have the O & D to make it work. I would love to see a U.S. LCC or UlCC pick up the slack
Or perhaps Norwegian. They are short aircraft at the moment and not flying several of their MAX routes, but can they legally fly KEF to USA?
ALTF4 wrote:Iluvtofly wrote:grbauc wrote:
This kind of thinking that air travel should be borderline free and that airlines are evil and shouldn't make any money makes me scratch my head sometime. I started traveling 24 years ago and airfares are close to the same and cheaper on lots of routes. I can fly FC to pretty much anywhere in the USA first class for under 1k. Small, medium and large airports alike.
Are you talking about domestic USA ....flying so called FC in the USA is nothing more than a pathetic joke compared to the rest of the airlines offering FC. A hamburger on a New York Miami flight is hardly what the rest of the world calls 1st class.
Wait, what? Have you flown FC elsewhere?
Europe: "Let's block a middle seat for the first three rows and call that first class"
Latin America: Many airlines don't even have FC
Asia: Old, tired FC hard product on most airlines I have flown there
So compared to "the rest of the airlines", Delta domestic FC is a joke? Great! Stay away and I'll keep enjoying the unlimited free upgrades as a DL Diamond.
In retrospect the wide-body decision unfortunately turned out to be fatal.
Iluvtofly wrote:grbauc wrote:PW100 wrote:If those fares were not sustainable for WOW, what makes you believe they would be sustainable for FI?
This kind of thinking that air travel should be borderline free and that airlines are evil and shouldn't make any money makes me scratch my head sometime. I started traveling 24 years ago and airfares are close to the same and cheaper on lots of routes. I can fly FC to pretty much anywhere in the USA first class for under 1k. Small, medium and large airports alike.
Are you talking about domestic USA ....flying so called FC in the USA is nothing more than a pathetic joke compared to the rest of the airlines offering FC. A hamburger on a New York Miami flight is hardly what the rest of the world calls 1st class.
klm617 wrote:santi319 wrote:MAH4546 wrote:
Yes, just not within the same country.
Though the thought that JetBlue "should take advantage of this" is absurdity.
Ok now Jetblue flying to Europe is imminent!
Since WOW operated out of DTW, EWR and BWI perhaps Spirit will now start low cost flights from those cities to Europe all well established bases for Spirit..
Dieuwer wrote:CEO of WOW blames collapse on big jet orderIn retrospect the wide-body decision unfortunately turned out to be fatal.
https://www.ft.com/content/de75fa2a-520 ... 9ef1626294
smokeybandit wrote:Dieuwer wrote:CEO of WOW blames collapse on big jet orderIn retrospect the wide-body decision unfortunately turned out to be fatal.
https://www.ft.com/content/de75fa2a-520 ... 9ef1626294
Sure seems it would have to be a lot more than just that to be as far in the hole as they were