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Nicknuzzii
Topic Author
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EWR prior to UA and CO merger

Wed Nov 07, 2018 2:45 am

Today, EWR is mostly dominated by United and their star alliance partners. But, not many other long haul carriers serve the airport. Was this still true before the UA and CO merger? Or did the airport transition gradually from a SkyTeam base (When CO was still a member) to an airport dominated by the Star Alliance? Is this why Air France and KLM... Etc.. pulled out? Please let me know!

Please also feel free to include any other facts about EWR's history you may find interesting or linked to the topic.
 
richiemo
Posts: 260
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Re: EWR prior to UA and CO merger

Wed Nov 07, 2018 2:57 am

Growing up near EWR, I simply remember it as an airport that catered to flights coming in from other hubs, ATL, MSP, ORD etc. Then when People Express built its hub here in the 80s (in the north terminal), it started to grow. Continental bought them, moved to terminal B I believe (correct me if I;m wrong) before going over to Terminal C. International carriers grew slowly over the years. There aren't more I guess cause there just isn't the room. That doesn't exactly answer your question but gives a little background as I remember it.
 
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September11
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Re: EWR prior to UA and CO merger

Wed Nov 07, 2018 3:14 am

EWR was originally a relieve airport for LGA and JFK?
Airliners.net of the Future
 
Cunard
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Re: EWR prior to UA and CO merger

Wed Nov 07, 2018 3:22 am

Nicknuzzii wrote:
Today, EWR is mostly dominated by United and their star alliance partners. But, not many other long haul carriers serve the airport. Was this still true before the UA and CO merger? Or did the airport transition gradually from a SkyTeam base (When CO was still a member) to an airport dominated by the Star Alliance? Is this why Air France and KLM... Etc.. pulled out? Please let me know!

Please also feel free to include any other facts about EWR's history you may find interesting or linked to the topic.


Regarding your last paragraph, have you not at least looked at the Newark Airport Wikipedia page or other online searches?
94 Countries, 327 Destinations Worldwide, 32 Airlines, 29 Aircraft Types, 182 Airports, 335 Flights.
 
MO11
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Re: EWR prior to UA and CO merger

Wed Nov 07, 2018 4:00 am

September11 wrote:
EWR was originally a relieve airport for LGA and JFK?


No, it was the predecessor to both.
 
tpaewr
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Re: EWR prior to UA and CO merger

Wed Nov 07, 2018 4:06 am

September11 wrote:
EWR was originally a relieve airport for LGA and JFK?



The UK is also a break away colony of the United States.
 
jerseyewr777
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Re: EWR prior to UA and CO merger

Wed Nov 07, 2018 4:12 am

There's actually quite a few foreign airlines serving EWR not associated with Star.

EI, BA, CX, EK, EW, FI, B0, LV, DY, PD, VS, VB, WW
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: EWR prior to UA and CO merger

Wed Nov 07, 2018 4:27 am

richiemo wrote:
Growing up near EWR, I simply remember it as an airport that catered to flights coming in from other hubs, ATL, MSP, ORD etc. Then when People Express built its hub here in the 80s (in the north terminal), it started to grow. Continental bought them, moved to terminal B I believe (correct me if I;m wrong) before going over to Terminal C. International carriers grew slowly over the years. There aren't more I guess cause there just isn't the room. That doesn't exactly answer your question but gives a little background as I remember it.


It's hard to believe but until the early 1980's, Newark was kind of a sleepy airport. Its expansion all came post-deregulation, starting with New York Air and People Express.

In 1987, I flew out of EWR for the first time on a United DC-10 to LAX. I seem to remember we were in the B banjo, but that was SO very long ago. That would fit your time frame perfectly.

Next time I came back it was on Continental in 2002, and into the new Terminal C. I never saw the previous facilities for this location, but I did learn that taking the AirTrain between terminals was easy but was outside of security.
 
global2
Posts: 523
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Re: EWR prior to UA and CO merger

Wed Nov 07, 2018 5:24 am

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
richiemo wrote:
Growing up near EWR, I simply remember it as an airport that catered to flights coming in from other hubs, ATL, MSP, ORD etc. Then when People Express built its hub here in the 80s (in the north terminal), it started to grow. Continental bought them, moved to terminal B I believe (correct me if I;m wrong) before going over to Terminal C. International carriers grew slowly over the years. There aren't more I guess cause there just isn't the room. That doesn't exactly answer your question but gives a little background as I remember it.


It's hard to believe but until the early 1980's, Newark was kind of a sleepy airport. Its expansion all came post-deregulation, starting with New York Air and People Express.
.


People Express initiated construction on the completion of Terminal C (the headhouse was completed in the early 70's but remained empty). They ditched the banjo layout and replaced them with two of the concourses that you see today. I thought they moved into Term. C prior to Continental, but I could be wrong about that. Boy I remember the North Terminal-- from another era. Walked through a door that was a "gate" to board my flight to BOS and stepped right into a huge puddle in the rain!

I remember when I was a kid in the 70's, only Terminals A & B were in operation, and it felt like the operations were pretty evenly divided between UA, AA, TWA, Eastern, maybe a small DL presence, and perhaps National too?. Maybe someone else has a better recollection than I do. But I always wondered if Newark Airport would ever "grow up" to be an important airport like LGA and JFK!

EWR was the original New York area airport. In the late 20's or early 30's, New York City's Mayor La Guardia flew back to "New York" from somewhere on a flight which landed at EWR, but he refused to get off the plane since it was in New Jersey, not New York. Apparently the airline flew him to Floyd Bennett Field in Brooklyn. (No Dr. Dao treatment in those days! :D ) He decided New York City needed it's own airport, and built the original version of the airport that would be later named for him.
 
dmstorm22
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Re: EWR prior to UA and CO merger

Wed Nov 07, 2018 5:31 am

My memories are limited to the late 90's and early 00's, but they used to have a lot of international carriers. Wou;dn't say the draw-down is purely due to UA's build-up there, but it definitely helped.
 
Max Q
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Re: EWR prior to UA and CO merger

Wed Nov 07, 2018 6:00 am

Cunard wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
Today, EWR is mostly dominated by United and their star alliance partners. But, not many other long haul carriers serve the airport. Was this still true before the UA and CO merger? Or did the airport transition gradually from a SkyTeam base (When CO was still a member) to an airport dominated by the Star Alliance? Is this why Air France and KLM... Etc.. pulled out? Please let me know!

Please also feel free to include any other facts about EWR's history you may find interesting or linked to the topic.


Regarding your last paragraph, have you not at least looked at the Newark Airport Wikipedia page or other online searches?




Reading this topic is not mandatory, if you
don’t like the subject why click on it instead of trying to suppress an individuals
interesting contribution ?



Discussion is what this forum is all
about, you may be happier just
not participating
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
cokepopper
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Re: EWR prior to UA and CO merger

Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:00 am

I’m pretty sure I remember People’s express moving to terminal C before Continental bought them?
 
BUFJACK10
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Re: EWR prior to UA and CO merger

Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:24 am

cokepopper wrote:
I’m pretty sure I remember People’s express moving to terminal C before Continental bought them?


I think it was just the international 747 services in terminal C until after the merger. If I remember one reason for the after merger meltdown was Continental trying to cram all the ops into either A and B or both and not use the North terminal. Correct me if I’m wrong.
AA AK AL AQ AS B6 CO DL EA FL F9 HP KN NY MO NW PA PE PI RC QX TW UA UR US WN AF AN AO CS IB OA TR VS
A300 A319 A320 BAE146 BAC111 DC8 DC9 DC10 MD80 707 717 727 737 747 757 767 777 787 L10 F27 F28 F100 ERJ CRJ SE-210 SSC B1900 ATR42 ATR72 DH8 E120 SWM
 
Max Q
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Re: EWR prior to UA and CO merger

Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:05 pm

BUFJACK10 wrote:
cokepopper wrote:
I’m pretty sure I remember People’s express moving to terminal C before Continental bought them?


I think it was just the international 747 services in terminal C until after the merger. If I remember one reason for the after merger meltdown was Continental trying to cram all the ops into either A and B or both and not use the North terminal. Correct me if I’m wrong.



If PE operated their 747 Classic aircraft out of terminal C it would have been for outbound international flights only as
no customs / immigration facilities were
in that terminal then
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
BUFJACK10
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Re: EWR prior to UA and CO merger

Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:48 pm

Max Q wrote:
BUFJACK10 wrote:
cokepopper wrote:
I’m pretty sure I remember People’s express moving to terminal C before Continental bought them?


I think it was just the international 747 services in terminal C until after the merger. If I remember one reason for the after merger meltdown was Continental trying to cram all the ops into either A and B or both and not use the North terminal. Correct me if I’m wrong.



If PE operated their 747 Classic aircraft out of terminal C it would have been for outbound international flights only as
no customs / immigration facilities were
in that terminal then



Correct, the arrivals were at Terminal B. I flew through EWR on PE and CO multiple times a week back then and it was such a mess at times I wound up renting a car and driving. Delays of 2+ hours and cancellations were common because lack of gate space.
AA AK AL AQ AS B6 CO DL EA FL F9 HP KN NY MO NW PA PE PI RC QX TW UA UR US WN AF AN AO CS IB OA TR VS
A300 A319 A320 BAE146 BAC111 DC8 DC9 DC10 MD80 707 717 727 737 747 757 767 777 787 L10 F27 F28 F100 ERJ CRJ SE-210 SSC B1900 ATR42 ATR72 DH8 E120 SWM
 
burnsie28
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Re: EWR prior to UA and CO merger

Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:21 pm

Using summer high seasons:
Airlines in June 2008:
9W, A0, AA, AC, AF, AI, AS, AZ, B6, BA, CO, DL, FL, LH, LO, LY, MH, NW, PD, QR, SK, SQ, TP, UA, UH, US, VS, WS, XP, YX- TOTAL- 30 Airlines

Airlines in June 2018:
7Q, AA, AC, AI, AS, AV, B0, B6, CA, CX, DL, DY, EI, EK, ET, FI, G4, LH, LO, LY, NK, OS, PD, PF, SK, TP, UA, VB, VS, WN, WW- TOTAL- 31 Airlines

Total Flights in June 2008: 4,268
Total Flights in June 2018: 4,257

Total Seats in June 2008: 483,846
Total Seats in June 2018: 563,170
 
MIflyer12
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Re: EWR prior to UA and CO merger

Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:25 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
Today, EWR is mostly dominated by United and their star alliance partners. But, not many other long haul carriers serve the airport. Was this still true before the UA and CO merger? Or did the airport transition gradually from a SkyTeam base (When CO was still a member) to an airport dominated by the Star Alliance? Is this why Air France and KLM... Etc.. pulled out? Please let me know!

Please also feel free to include any other facts about EWR's history you may find interesting or linked to the topic.


Take a look at current Port Authority data sheets. EWR is served by 25 international carriers. No, it's not JFK, with service by 64 international carriers. They have destination and flight counts, too.

http://www.panynj.gov/airports/general-information.html
 
hohd
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Re: EWR prior to UA and CO merger

Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:48 pm

EWR is adequately served by many international carriers, even non Star and can serve more if there is room. It is probably in the top 4 airports in US for international carriers.
 
EWRandMDW
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Re: EWR prior to UA and CO merger

Wed Nov 07, 2018 3:26 pm

When I was in my teens (early 1970s) I would sometimes take the Public Service (later Transport of NJ) bus to the 1952 (later called North) terminal and go up to the expansive observation deck to watch planes take off and land. Often I would step outside onto the roof of the East or West arcade to add sounds and smells of the airport to my viewing experience. It was fun watching TWA, UA, AA, MO, AL, NE, BN, PI, NA, NW, DL, EA, and small commuter carrier planes. I recall there was a big poster showing what the new airport terminals (A, B, C) would look like and that more than 20 million passengers could be accommodated by them! At that time 20 million seemed like such an impossibly huge number. The poster had artwork showing SSTs and 747s, among others, at their gates or lining up for takeoff.

Well, the August PANYNJ traffic numbers show that for the first 8 months of 2018 just under 32 million total (revenue and non-rev) passengers used the airport an the 12 month running total is about 46.5 million,well over twice the number predicted back in the 1970s. It seems that EWR has has the largest monthly % increases in passenger counts for some time. If that trend continues, then 2019 may be the year 50 million total passengers is passed. Amazing for a 90 year old airport planned and built by visionaries in the city of Newark NJ (not NYC) that was long regarded the poor stepsister of LGA and JFK.

By the way, back before many mergers took place, among the mainline carriers EA and UA had relatively large operations at EWR. AL and MO were pretty big among the local service airlines. I guess they saw the potential of the place that other airlines were too blind or stupid to recognize!
 
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deltacto
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Re: EWR prior to UA and CO merger

Wed Nov 07, 2018 6:05 pm

PEOPLExpress Newark Terminal map from 1986

Image

"Brussels, London, Los Angeles, San Francisco arrive and depart People Express Terminal C"
 
codc10
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Re: EWR prior to UA and CO merger

Wed Nov 07, 2018 6:14 pm

deltacto wrote:
"Brussels, London, Los Angeles, San Francisco arrive and depart People Express Terminal C"


The EWR FIS was actually at Terminal C until it was built out by PE in the late 80s, then it moved to B.
 
BobbyPSP
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Re: EWR prior to UA and CO merger

Wed Nov 07, 2018 6:25 pm

A great place to research service and schedules is departedflights.com.
 
DaveFly
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Re: EWR prior to UA and CO merger

Wed Nov 07, 2018 6:42 pm

Amelia Earhart flew into Newark on several occasions.

In the 1970s, I flew from EWR on Piedmont a few times to visit college buddies. Incredibly, the Port Authority used to run commercials that portrayed Newark as ‘New York’s best-kept secret airport!’ Who would’ve thought they’d grow into a mega hub!
717,727,737,747,757,767,777,787
L1011,DC8,DC9,DC10,MD80/90
A300,A319,320,321,330,340,
CRJ,E135/45/190,
DH8,Avro85,DHBeaver,AstarHelo,F100,ATR42
 
rbavfan
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Re: EWR prior to UA and CO merger

Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:15 pm

global2 wrote:
PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
richiemo wrote:
Growing up near EWR, I simply remember it as an airport that catered to flights coming in from other hubs, ATL, MSP, ORD etc. Then when People Express built its hub here in the 80s (in the north terminal), it started to grow. Continental bought them, moved to terminal B I believe (correct me if I;m wrong) before going over to Terminal C. International carriers grew slowly over the years. There aren't more I guess cause there just isn't the room. That doesn't exactly answer your question but gives a little background as I remember it.


It's hard to believe but until the early 1980's, Newark was kind of a sleepy airport. Its expansion all came post-deregulation, starting with New York Air and People Express.
.


People Express initiated construction on the completion of Terminal C (the headhouse was completed in the early 70's but remained empty). They ditched the banjo layout and replaced them with two of the concourses that you see today. I thought they moved into Term. C prior to Continental, but I could be wrong about that. Boy I remember the North Terminal-- from another era. Walked through a door that was a "gate" to board my flight to BOS and stepped right into a huge puddle in the rain!

I remember when I was a kid in the 70's, only Terminals A & B were in operation, and it felt like the operations were pretty evenly divided between UA, AA, TWA, Eastern, maybe a small DL presence, and perhaps National too?. Maybe someone else has a better recollection than I do. But I always wondered if Newark Airport would ever "grow up" to be an important airport like LGA and JFK!

EWR was the original New York area airport. In the late 20's or early 30's, New York City's Mayor La Guardia flew back to "New York" from somewhere on a flight which landed at EWR, but he refused to get off the plane since it was in New Jersey, not New York. Apparently the airline flew him to Floyd Bennett Field in Brooklyn. (No Dr. Dao treatment in those days! :D ) He decided New York City needed it's own airport, and built the original version of the airport that would be later named for him.


Yes they were operating out of C before the CO takeover.
 
maps4ltd
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Re: EWR prior to UA and CO merger

Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:48 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
Today, EWR is mostly dominated by United and their star alliance partners. But, not many other long haul carriers serve the airport. Was this still true before the UA and CO merger? Or did the airport transition gradually from a SkyTeam base (When CO was still a member) to an airport dominated by the Star Alliance? Is this why Air France and KLM... Etc.. pulled out? Please let me know!

Please also feel free to include any other facts about EWR's history you may find interesting or linked to the topic.


It's marketing itself more than ever as an O/D airport for Manhattan/New Jersey residents; United has spent a ton on advertising. You've seen more Star Alliance carriers come in over recent years as well. I do believe that CO served more smaller city destinations in the east before UA came in, though, simply because of CommutAir/Colgan's Dash-8/100s.
All opinions expressed herein are mine and do not represent the views of Cape Air
 
maps4ltd
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Re: EWR prior to UA and CO merger

Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:48 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
Today, EWR is mostly dominated by United and their star alliance partners. But, not many other long haul carriers serve the airport. Was this still true before the UA and CO merger? Or did the airport transition gradually from a SkyTeam base (When CO was still a member) to an airport dominated by the Star Alliance? Is this why Air France and KLM... Etc.. pulled out? Please let me know!

Please also feel free to include any other facts about EWR's history you may find interesting or linked to the topic.


It's marketing itself more than ever as an O/D airport for Manhattan/New Jersey residents; United has spent a ton on advertising. You've seen more Star Alliance carriers come in over recent years as well. I do believe that CO served more smaller city destinations in the east before UA came in, though, simply because of CommutAir/Colgan's Dash-8/100s.
All opinions expressed herein are mine and do not represent the views of Cape Air
 
maps4ltd
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Re: EWR prior to UA and CO merger

Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:50 pm

Duplicate post. Please delete.
All opinions expressed herein are mine and do not represent the views of Cape Air
 
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N62NA
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Re: EWR prior to UA and CO merger

Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:04 pm

global2 wrote:
But I always wondered if Newark Airport would ever "grow up" to be an important airport like LGA and JFK!


Me too. Growing up in northern NJ in the 70s and early 80s, EWR was always the "also-ran" airport compared to the attention JFK and LGA got from the majors.

UA, AA and TW used their newly acquired 747s on JFK-LAX/SFO, while EWR got the DC-8 / 707.

EA and NA used their newly acquired 747s on JFK-MIA. EWR got the 727s.

NW flew the 747 out of JFK, DC-10 out of EWR.

The hourly flights to ORD were operated by UA, AA and TW from LGA. Not from EWR.

The air shuttle flights to BOS and DCA operated out of LGA, not EWR.

DL flew the L10 out of JFK and LGA. DC-8s from EWR.

Things got a bit better for EWR once the airlines added DC-10s and more L-1011s. It was possible to sometimes get a UA 747 on EWR-SFO, EA added some L10s to ATL, MIA, MCO, NA DC-10s flew a daily MIA-EWR-MIA turn.

But as others have noted, it was really PE that "woke up" EWR.
Last edited by N62NA on Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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N62NA
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Re: EWR prior to UA and CO merger

Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:07 pm

Max Q wrote:
If PE operated their 747 Classic aircraft out of terminal C it would have been for outbound international flights only as
no customs / immigration facilities were
in that terminal then


My one and only PE 747 flight arrived at Terminal C when it was just the headhouse in July of 1986. I remember walking down the stairs and across the tarmac into the terminal building. This was on a LAX-EWR flight.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: EWR prior to UA and CO merger

Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:54 pm

I believe more Star carriers are at JFK than EWR.

Certainly if they are star carriers that only serve one airport...there are more JFKs than EWRs.
 
N649DL
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Re: EWR prior to UA and CO merger

Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:31 pm

The whole reason why CO had dominance at EWR is because Texas Air acquired PE / CO / EA at the same time. CO replaced PE's entry into Terminal C which was to be built for them. Also EA was to move into the old US terminal at LGA, which was acquired by CO and sold off to US. The actual base of Terminal C was built along with A and B in the 1970s but wasn't used for years until 1987.

Other than that, EA and Piedmont had focus city type operations in the 1980s which EA was liquidated and US operated a focus city at EWR by acquiring Piedmont. They took up all of the A-2 banjo and then sold it to CO in the mid-1990s.

UAL was also very strong historically at EWR for many years operating all of the A-1 banjo until they closed the EWR base in 2006. Then UA really shrunk to only take up a handful of gates. Prior to closing the base they had the LHR flight up to around 2004 but had lots of frequency to all the hubs even in 2005. They also operated EWR-NRT and MIA for many years in the 1990s.

DL was always a player at EWR with Delta Express flights to Florida (mainline before that) but after Song was gone they really weren't of anything impactful until the NW merger when they took up the entire B-1 banjo (since both were there) and assumed the AMS flight and served CDG for a few years up until recently.
 
ltbewr
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Re: EWR prior to UA and CO merger

Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:32 pm

In the 1984-1987 era, EWR started regular transatlantic services to the UK, mainly LGW. They were to be run by 'discount' airlines. A limited number of flights by some long gone airline operating like a scheduled charter, then British Caledonia, then Virgin Atlantic with 1 747 (took them when still only had one plane) and to balance, a USA based airline, at first People Express and I think evolving into Continental when they took them over. PE also operated (and I was on one of those flights) to BRU on a 747. When I went on both PE and VA, it was through a small part of Terminal C that was opened to handle international flight.
CO operated flights for years out of EWR, I recall in 1982 (pre-Bethune) on a DC-10 to the old DEN Stapleton airport. I don't recall which terminal they operated out of A or B.
 
dfwjim1
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Re: EWR prior to UA and CO merger

Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:14 pm

N62NA wrote:
global2 wrote:
But I always wondered if Newark Airport would ever "grow up" to be an important airport like LGA and JFK!


Me too. Growing up in northern NJ in the 70s and early 80s, EWR was always the "also-ran" airport compared to the attention JFK and LGA got from the majors.

UA, AA and TW used their newly acquired 747s on JFK-LAX/SFO, while EWR got the DC-8 / 707.

EA and NA used their newly acquired 747s on JFK-MIA. EWR got the 727s.

NW flew the 747 out of JFK, DC-10 out of EWR.

The hourly flights to ORD were operated by UA, AA and TW from LGA. Not from EWR.

The air shuttle flights to BOS and DCA operated out of LGA, not EWR.

DL flew the L10 out of JFK and LGA. DC-8s from EWR.


I imagine there were not as many people living in the Metro area back then so perhaps that is one of the reasons why EWR has grown over the years.

Things got a bit better for EWR once the airlines added DC-10s and more L-1011s. It was possible to sometimes get a UA 747 on EWR-SFO, EA added some L10s to ATL, MIA, MCO, NA DC-10s flew a daily MIA-EWR-MIA turn.

But as others have noted, it was really PE that "woke up" EWR.
 
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cosyr
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Re: EWR prior to UA and CO merger

Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:24 pm

Check out Historic Aerials https://www.historicaerials.com/viewer, and search EWR. You can actually click on 1987 and can see that the concourses on Terminal C were being finished and the jetways were just being added, so whether People Express actually pulled planes up to the gates prior to the merger would depend on what time of year these aerial photos were taken. You can see that it looks like the two international arrival gates at Terminal C were in use though. It is interesting to scroll over to the north terminal on the same map.

What I also think is crazy, is that you can see if you click on 1979 that EWR actually built the 3 banjos for Terminal C. What a huge expense it must have been to tear them down and build new concourses. I agree that the current concourses are a better use of the tight space, but at the time, that must have seemed like an unnecessary thing to do for an upstart like People Express. Their fears might have been realized because People Express didn't make it, but Continental staying made it worth the effort.
 
Cunard
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Re: EWR prior to UA and CO merger

Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:28 pm

Max Q wrote:
Cunard wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
Today, EWR is mostly dominated by United and their star alliance partners. But, not many other long haul carriers serve the airport. Was this still true before the UA and CO merger? Or did the airport transition gradually from a SkyTeam base (When CO was still a member) to an airport dominated by the Star Alliance? Is this why Air France and KLM... Etc.. pulled out? Please let me know!

Please also feel free to include any other facts about EWR's history you may find interesting or linked to the topic.


Regarding your last paragraph, have you not at least looked at the Newark Airport Wikipedia page or other online searches?




Reading this topic is not mandatory, if you
don’t like the subject why click on it instead of trying to suppress an individuals
interesting contribution.

Discussion is what this forum is all
about, you may be happier just
not participating


It's a very interesting subject I totally agree with you but I always think that it is a good idea to at least do some research on a subject prior to opening a thread hence why I suggested the Newark Airport Wikipedia page because in that way at least the OP has a better idea rather than the snippets of information that you get from other posters.

Wikipedia is not always the best but it at least gives a detailed account of the subject in hand a good place for reference so there :-)
94 Countries, 327 Destinations Worldwide, 32 Airlines, 29 Aircraft Types, 182 Airports, 335 Flights.
 
TWA902fly
Posts: 3160
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 1999 5:47 am

Re: EWR prior to UA and CO merger

Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:29 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
I believe more Star carriers are at JFK than EWR.

Certainly if they are star carriers that only serve one airport...there are more JFKs than EWRs.


Star carriers at JFK (17)
Air China
Air India
ANA
Asiana Airlines
Austrian Airlines
Avianca
Brussels Airlines
Copa Airlines
EgyptAir
EVA Air
LOT
Lufthansa
Singapore Airlines
South African Airways
Swiss
TAP
Turkish Airlines

Star carriers at EWR (13)
Air Canada
Air China
Air India
Austrian Airlines
Avianca
Ethiopian Airlines
LOT
Lufthansa
SAS
Singapore Airlines
SWISS
TAP
United Airlines

'902
life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
 
Cunard
Posts: 2510
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 6:45 pm

Re: EWR prior to UA and CO merger

Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:33 pm

BobbyPSP wrote:
A great place to research service and schedules is departedflights.com.




Be very careful in what you write as user MAXQ will only shoot you down for suggesting sites of reference such as ''departedflights''.
94 Countries, 327 Destinations Worldwide, 32 Airlines, 29 Aircraft Types, 182 Airports, 335 Flights.
 
dmstorm22
Posts: 636
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:49 pm

Re: EWR prior to UA and CO merger

Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:45 pm

TWA902fly wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
I believe more Star carriers are at JFK than EWR.

Certainly if they are star carriers that only serve one airport...there are more JFKs than EWRs.


Star carriers at JFK (17)
Air China
Air India
ANA
Asiana Airlines
Austrian Airlines
Avianca
Brussels Airlines
Copa Airlines
EgyptAir
EVA Air
LOT
Lufthansa
Singapore Airlines
South African Airways
Swiss
TAP
Turkish Airlines

Star carriers at EWR (13)
Air Canada
Air China
Air India
Austrian Airlines
Avianca
Ethiopian Airlines
LOT
Lufthansa
SAS
Singapore Airlines
SWISS
TAP
United Airlines

'902


Unique Star Carriers at JFK
ANA
Asiana
Brussels Airlines
Copa
Egyptair
EVA
South African Airways
Turkish

Unique Star Carriers at EWR
Air Canada
Ethiopian Airlines
SAS
 
User avatar
jfklganyc
Posts: 6408
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

Re: EWR prior to UA and CO merger

Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:48 pm

Kinda blows up the Star Hub theory at EWR.

Thanks for lists
 
gsg013
Posts: 631
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:03 pm

Re: EWR prior to UA and CO merger

Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:50 pm

I grew up about 15 miles west of EWR during the CO days (born 1991) There has always been a lot of international airlines flying out of EWR including CO and now UA.

Here's a list of the ones I remember seeing over my 27 years.

1. Continental
2. United
3. Delta (CDG & AMS)
4. Virgin Atlantic
5. Swiss
6. Air France (no longer)
7. TAP Portugal
8. SAS
9. El Al Israel
10. Emirates
11. Air China
12. Lufthansa
13. Aer Lingus
14. Air Canada
15. Air India
16. Austrian
17. Avianca
18. British Airways
19. Cathay Pacific
20. Ethopian
21. La Compagnie
22. Iceland Air
23. LOT Polish
24. Norweigen
25. Porter
26. Singapore
27. TAP
28. WOW

There maybe a few that I have forgotten. Not sure if AA ever flew international out of EWR but wouldn't surprise me if they did at some point.
 
N649DL
Posts: 1173
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:21 pm

Re: EWR prior to UA and CO merger

Thu Nov 08, 2018 12:06 am

gsg013 wrote:
I grew up about 15 miles west of EWR during the CO days (born 1991) There has always been a lot of international airlines flying out of EWR including CO and now UA.

Here's a list of the ones I remember seeing over my 27 years.

1. Continental
2. United
3. Delta (CDG & AMS)
4. Virgin Atlantic
5. Swiss
6. Air France (no longer)
7. TAP Portugal
8. SAS
9. El Al Israel
10. Emirates
11. Air China
12. Lufthansa
13. Aer Lingus
14. Air Canada
15. Air India
16. Austrian
17. Avianca
18. British Airways
19. Cathay Pacific
20. Ethopian
21. La Compagnie
22. Iceland Air
23. LOT Polish
24. Norweigen
25. Porter
26. Singapore
27. TAP
28. WOW

There maybe a few that I have forgotten. Not sure if AA ever flew international out of EWR but wouldn't surprise me if they did at some point.


AA tried EWR-LHR twice, I think. Once in the early 1990s and another in the late 1990s with an A300 and 762.
 
jerseyewr777
Posts: 128
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2016 1:06 am

Re: EWR prior to UA and CO merger

Thu Nov 08, 2018 12:19 am

gsg013 wrote:
I grew up about 15 miles west of EWR during the CO days (born 1991) There has always been a lot of international airlines flying out of EWR including CO and now UA.

Here's a list of the ones I remember seeing over my 27 years.

1. Continental
2. United
3. Delta (CDG & AMS)
4. Virgin Atlantic
5. Swiss
6. Air France (no longer)
7. TAP Portugal
8. SAS
9. El Al Israel
10. Emirates
11. Air China
12. Lufthansa
13. Aer Lingus
14. Air Canada
15. Air India
16. Austrian
17. Avianca
18. British Airways
19. Cathay Pacific
20. Ethopian
21. La Compagnie
22. Iceland Air
23. LOT Polish
24. Norweigen
25. Porter
26. Singapore
27. TAP
28. WOW

There maybe a few that I have forgotten. Not sure if AA ever flew international out of EWR but wouldn't surprise me if they did at some point.


Many other airlines as well. KLM, Turkish (resuming August 2019), Malev, Alitalia, Malaysia, Korean, Sabena, Hapag-Lloyd, Martinair, Spanair, EVA, Czech, L'Avion & so on! EWR has seen it's share of foreign tails over the years!
 
ExMilitaryEng
Posts: 688
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 7:12 pm

Re: EWR prior to UA and CO merger

Thu Nov 08, 2018 12:22 am

FWIW, I flew PE quite often back then.

I recall paying only $99 + tx (about $110 total, paid cash onboard) for BTV - EWR - LGW. BTV-EWR on a 737 classic, then to LGW on a 747 classic.

We indeed departed from terminal C. That terminal looked (in 1984?) half finished inside.

Later I also had a YMX-LAX return ticket, (also US$99 + tx, on a 747?). PE did not last very long at YMX.
YMX itself did not last long either... ;-)
 
AirlineBrat
Posts: 507
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 7:40 am

Re: EWR prior to UA and CO merger

Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:49 am

I’m just old enough to remember when all the airlines serving EWR operated out of the North Terminal. There were a mix of props and jets back then. You walked in the entrance from the drop off zone and the check in counters were in the back with the two concourses off to the sides. I recall the interior was black. Maybe black marble walls. There was a restaurant and bar near the entrance. I don’t remember much of a security area. But back then family members met your incoming flight at the gate. Metal detectors didn’t really come into play until after terminal A and B we’re completed and before People Express took over the North Terminal.
I'm leavin on a jet plane. Don't know when I'll be back again....
 
dmstorm22
Posts: 636
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:49 pm

Re: EWR prior to UA and CO merger

Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:55 am

N649DL wrote:
AA tried EWR-LHR twice, I think. Once in the early 1990s and another in the late 1990s with an A300 and 762.


I flew EWR-LHR with AA B762 in 2000. Maybe was something cut after 9/11?
 
dmstorm22
Posts: 636
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:49 pm

Re: EWR prior to UA and CO merger

Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:58 am

jfklganyc wrote:
Kinda blows up the Star Hub theory at EWR.

Thanks for lists


Yup.

And I should say that I'm a 1K UA, devoted EWR flyer. But I realize why it doesn't command the same international airline routes that JFK does (even if I can't believe ME3 hasn't come there more until EK last couple years - discounting QR back in the day).

If anything, it lends more credence to the reason why UA is moving some of the regional flights to IAD. EWR is a great hub for UA. It is not a connecting hub, whether domestic or shuffling passengers to *A partners.

Even the three unique ones, the only interesting one to me is SK, which has been EWR-only for a long time (maybe always?).

AC is not getting much connecting traffic I have to believe, and I'm pretty sure ET would have no issues moving over to JFK.
 
dampfnudel
Posts: 598
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 9:42 am

Re: EWR prior to UA and CO merger

Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:36 am

My family preferred flying TATL out of EWR in the 1990s when JFK was still a mess. Now, JFK is our preference because of all of the improvements there in the past 20 years. I remember flying with LH to FRA in the early 90s and then with CO later in the decade. It was a easier airport to deal with at the time compared to JFK.
A313 332 343 B703 712 722 732 73G 738 739 741 742 744 752 762 76E 764 772 AT5 CR9 D10 DHH DHT F27 GRM L10 M83 TU5
 
N649DL
Posts: 1173
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:21 pm

Re: EWR prior to UA and CO merger

Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:06 pm

dmstorm22 wrote:
N649DL wrote:
AA tried EWR-LHR twice, I think. Once in the early 1990s and another in the late 1990s with an A300 and 762.


I flew EWR-LHR with AA B762 in 2000. Maybe was something cut after 9/11?


I believe it hung around for a bit after 9/11. I think it was dropped in 2003. For a while I recall checking it on aa.com and the dummy schedule had it blocked as a 777 (if you can believe that) and then it never happened. It just silently went away. I definitely remember in 2001 it was an A306 with personal video screens that eventually got ripped out.

Pre-Merger UAL operated EWR-LHR well into 2004, but I don't think made it into 2005.

"If anything, it lends more credence to the reason why UA is moving some of the regional flights to IAD. EWR is a great hub for UA. It is not a connecting hub, whether domestic or shuffling passengers to *A partners."

It can be for some but perhaps they are funneling people through IAD instead and focusing on O&D because they are starting to get the message that people don't like connecting in delay prone EWR.

"What I also think is crazy, is that you can see if you click on 1979 that EWR actually built the 3 banjos for Terminal C. What a huge expense it must have been to tear them down and build new concourses. I agree that the current concourses are a better use of the tight space, but at the time, that must have seemed like an unnecessary thing to do for an upstart like People Express. Their fears might have been realized because People Express didn't make it, but Continental staying made it worth the effort."

I'm not sure if those banjos in C were actually completed, perhaps only the outer construction or the "skeleton" of the concourses until a carrier was committed to moving in. If that's the case, why would PE use the North Terminal which seemed like a dump?

I also remembered that CO partner airlines: America West, Alitalia, and SAS all operated out of Terminal C for a minute in the 1990s.
 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 14431
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

Re: EWR prior to UA and CO merger

Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:22 pm

Air Canada and Air France also flew out of Terminal C.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757

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