7673mech
Posts: 522
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Re: Hawaiian A330 HNL-FCO

Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:25 pm

Paint slots are at a premium right now. As noted future flights will be rotated more effectively through JFK. Whenever a seasonal line of maintenance starts and ends the first and last flights tend to be painful $$$. Organizing charters or one off flights isn't possible because maintenance work/scedules are fluid. The Airbus are on the Delta Maintenance program so this is a facility both airlines bought off on.
 
910A
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Re: Hawaiian A330 HNL-FCO

Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:32 pm

ewt340 wrote:
But, the 7,200nm is calculated range with normal weather.


The 7200nm figure is for the 242T 332/338 which HA doesn't have any. I believe their 332 are the 238T models with a 6500nm range with maximum payload..
 
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FA9295
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Re: Hawaiian A330 HNL-FCO

Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:03 am

GuillaumePhilly wrote:
B777LRF wrote:
ewt340 wrote:
1. I'm sorry but it seems like you don't understand what discussion mean. But, you are welcome to leave this thread or the forums overall.
2. Instead of making useless judgements. I think you should start by providing us with "Factual Information" for any of your next comment. Otherwise you'll just ended up being a hypocrite now.


I understand perfectly well what a discussion is, namely exchanging points of view from a position of actual knowledge. Thus, this isn't a discussion but merely people with zero knowledge offering opinions based on nothing but assumptions. I appreciate we live in an ever fact-resistant world, but that doesn't mean we all just have to accept it. As for leaving these forums, I'd suggest that's hardly for you to decide on.


Might I suggest, ewt340, you leave the name-calling back in the sandbox. As to B777LRF’s comment, I have to say I see his point. The various reasons posed for this flight by the vast majority of people on this thread are nothing more than suppositions—opinions being offered with very little substance to back them up. His wry sarcasm was not only a comment on a.net, but our society as a whole. Our common discourse has been reduced to nothing more than people shouting unsubstantiated opinions at one another with little to zero factual information given on which such opinions are formulated. In teaching writing I ALWAYS insist that in order to have a rational and intelligent conversation, my students state the facts from which they are forming their opinions from. It is this supporting factual information that enables discussion and dialogue to take place. Arguing opinions with nothing to back them up is simply sanctimonious drivel; opinions are not facts and it’s pointless to argue simple opinions.

Now to the topic at hand. It sounds as if HALOGG has told us it is in fact a ferry flight for painting. Based on my back of the envelope calculations using today’s spot price for Jet-A of $2.109 and using, I’ll admit a flight sim planner, as a rough estimate a fuel load of 209,265 lbs of fuel = 31,234 gal. We get an approx fuel cost for the one-way ferry flight of ~$66,000.

Someone up-thread asked why they didn’t use VCV’s paint-shop. Using the same math as above a ferry to VCV looks to be ~$25,000.

Based on this one data point alone, depending on all the other costs associated with painting this aircraft—the work itself, crew pay, crew lodging and per firm, dead-heading cost, return flight to JFK to operate a revenue flight as it swaps out another aircraft going in for painting.... the cost of the one way ferry fuel cost difference of ~$41,000 would, in my estimation, be factored in to the overall business decision of wether having the work done in Rome makes both economic AND business sense.

Note also these aren’t even real numbers I’m using but quick and dirty calculations. I can easily believe that with all of the other variables involved that $41,000 difference in fuel cost wound up being made up for in myriad other ways and in the grand scheme of things it was decided the “extra” fuel cost vs having the work done elsewhere made sense.

If anyone else has some “quick and dirty” number— probably the main variable being the cost of painting a 332— we can probably see how this ferry absolutely makes sense.

That is how one backs up an opinion (in this case my opinion the ferry flight makes sense). Now I’ve given everyone some things they can argue with besides just my opinion. Discuss away.


Thank you for giving a rational and insightful response. However, regardless of how "on-point" B777LRF's comment was, there was no need for them to come hijacking this thread by whining and complaining about their views on this website. That is what should be left "in the sandbox". There's just no excuse for that at all. I could say a lot more on this matter, but I don't won't to derail this thread anymore than it already is...
 
pualani
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Re: Hawaiian A330 HNL-FCO

Sun Nov 25, 2018 6:37 am

This aircraft ferried FCO-SEA and arrived early Friday morning and my crew and I took the Seattle Seahawks and staff to Charlotte for their game against the Panthers
 
joeycapps
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Re: Hawaiian A330 HNL-FCO

Sun Nov 25, 2018 7:44 am

pualani wrote:
This aircraft ferried FCO-SEA and arrived early Friday morning and my crew and I took the Seattle Seahawks and staff to Charlotte for their game against the Panthers


So random question, and it might be dumb once I sit back and think about it, but is there any particular reason they'd take a freshly painted plane to an HA destination, only to have it fly a charter back? I guess the way I think, it would make more sense (assuming the inbound SEA plane needs to be painted, per se) that the fresh 330 would go to SEA and work the flight back to HNL, while the unpainted A330 would charter until ultimately ferrying over to the paint shop? Forgive my ignorance on this one...
 
Pacific
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Re: Hawaiian A330 HNL-FCO

Sun Nov 25, 2018 8:27 am

This is the payload-range chart of a 233T A330-200 which is slightly "worse" than Hawaiian's frames. An empty A332 has a 9,000nm brochure range, while HNL-FCO is approximately 7,000nm. Easily doable!

Image
 
redcap1962
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Re: Hawaiian A330 HNL-FCO

Sun Nov 25, 2018 11:13 am

pualani wrote:
This aircraft ferried FCO-SEA and arrived early Friday morning and my crew and I took the Seattle Seahawks and staff to Charlotte for their game against the Panthers


At least the paint will definitely be dry upon arrival in SEA... :bouncy:
This is your pilot speaking. Welcome to flight one from here to there. We'll be flying at a height of ten feet, going up to twelve and a half feet if we see anything big. My copilot today is a flask of coffee.

Eddie Izzard
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Hawaiian A330 HNL-FCO

Sun Nov 25, 2018 6:05 pm

nikeherc wrote:
Aircraft need regular repainting regardless of the livery. Striping the paint and identifying corrosion, minor damage, etc. is a very necessary process. Cost and availability go into the selection of the vendor. Dull, ratty looking planes do not inspire confidence.


...stripping...

(for the non-native EN speakers who use a.net to learn EN)
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Hawaiian A330 HNL-FCO

Sun Nov 25, 2018 6:08 pm

joeycapps wrote:
pualani wrote:
This aircraft ferried FCO-SEA and arrived early Friday morning and my crew and I took the Seattle Seahawks and staff to Charlotte for their game against the Panthers


So random question, and it might be dumb once I sit back and think about it, but is there any particular reason they'd take a freshly painted plane to an HA destination, only to have it fly a charter back? I guess the way I think, it would make more sense (assuming the inbound SEA plane needs to be painted, per se) that the fresh 330 would go to SEA and work the flight back to HNL, while the unpainted A330 would charter until ultimately ferrying over to the paint shop? Forgive my ignorance on this one...


Best ROI for that moment in time.
 
DylanHarvey
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Re: Hawaiian A330 HNL-FCO

Sun Nov 25, 2018 6:46 pm

rbavfan wrote:
ewt340 wrote:
FA9295 wrote:
The distance for this flight is 8,713 mi. Airbus advertises the range as 13,450 km. (8,358 mi.). Granted, that range is with a full payload, but regardless, it's still pushing the plane to it's limits...


The direct distance for this flight should be around 7000nm, A330-200 is listed to fly at maximum range of 7,200nm with passengers and bags (both bags inside the overhead bins and passengers checked bags in the cargo compartments).

But, the 7,200nm is calculated range with normal weather.

Maybe tailwind or less passengers and bags.


HA has the 238 t model that has a 6950nm range.
I thought some actually were the 242t models because of the shortened flap fairings, but I might be wrong.
 
Cush
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Re: Hawaiian A330 HNL-FCO

Sun Nov 25, 2018 6:48 pm

I have a question about these flights. What sort of crew are on the aircraft for a flight of this duration (and also shorter). Is it just the pilots or are there flight attendants as well?
Fly me to the moon let me play among the stars.
 
DylanHarvey
Posts: 167
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Re: Hawaiian A330 HNL-FCO

Sun Nov 25, 2018 6:48 pm

910A wrote:
ewt340 wrote:
But, the 7,200nm is calculated range with normal weather.


The 7200nm figure is for the 242T 332/338 which HA doesn't have any. I believe their 332 are the 238T models with a 6500nm range with maximum payload..

Oh ok, I did not know even the 238t models had the shortened flap fairings.
 
gokmengs
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Re: Hawaiian A330 HNL-FCO

Sun Nov 25, 2018 7:07 pm

I also would love to know the cost of a repaint for aircraft such as A330, is it so significant that for a decent price it warrants a flight half way across the world?
Yaşa Mustafa Kemal Paşa Yaşa, Adın Yazılacak Mücevher Taşa
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Hawaiian A330 HNL-FCO

Sun Nov 25, 2018 8:16 pm

B757capt wrote:
If it cost them more than $250,000 to paint the airplane I would be shocked.


Easily that, closer $400,000.


GF
 
HAWKXP
Posts: 81
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Re: Hawaiian A330 HNL-FCO

Mon Nov 26, 2018 4:31 am

25 years ago it cost me $10,000 usd to paint a Cessna T210. That has a LOT less aluminum.
 
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Moose135
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Re: Hawaiian A330 HNL-FCO

Mon Nov 26, 2018 7:30 am

pualani wrote:
This aircraft ferried FCO-SEA and arrived early Friday morning and my crew and I took the Seattle Seahawks and staff to Charlotte for their game against the Panthers


I caught you Sunday afternoon while the game was going on. I just wish they parked you in a better spot for photos through the fence!

Image

Image
KC-135 - Passing gas and taking names!
 
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seabosdca
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Re: Hawaiian A330 HNL-FCO

Mon Nov 26, 2018 8:44 am

The 332 is a flying fuel tank. Its tanks were designed for the 275 t 343. The result is that the 332 has so much fuel capacity that in most configurations it reaches MTOW before the tanks are full—even with no passengers aboard. This leads to incredibly long ferry range. As noted DL has flown a 233 t 332 on a SIN-ATL ferry flight. HNL-FCO empty would leave tonnes below MTOW on a 238 t 332.
 
strfyr51
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Re: Hawaiian A330 HNL-FCO

Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:04 am

readytotaxi wrote:
Probably just me but given fuel costs and time could it not be done closer to home, cheaper?

In Hawaii? I doubt it. Goodyear AZ Greenville MS, Mobile AL, Victorville,CA are some of the paint shops in the USA and they may already be Booked.
 
soflaflyer
Posts: 172
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 10:35 pm

Re: Hawaiian A330 HNL-FCO

Sun Dec 02, 2018 3:37 am

Moose135 wrote:
pualani wrote:
This aircraft ferried FCO-SEA and arrived early Friday morning and my crew and I took the Seattle Seahawks and staff to Charlotte for their game against the Panthers


I caught you Sunday afternoon while the game was going on. I just wish they parked you in a better spot for photos through the fence!

Image

Image


It's actually a nice shot, thanks for sharing.
 
WPvsMW
Posts: 2103
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Re: Hawaiian A330 HNL-FCO

Sun Dec 02, 2018 8:19 am

Two belt loaders with the a/c on the ramp... no ULDs and loaders when the Seahawks travel?
 
Cunard
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Re: Hawaiian A330 HNL-FCO

Sun Dec 02, 2018 8:32 am

[quote="Cush"]I have a question about these flights. What sort of crew are on the aircraft for a flight of this duration (and also shorter). Is it just the pilots or are there flight attendants onboard?

I Deleted my post
94 Countries, 327 Destinations Worldwide, 32 Airlines, 29 Aircraft Types, 182 Airports, 335 Flights.
 
HAL
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Re: Hawaiian A330 HNL-FCO

Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:56 am

Cush wrote:
I have a question about these flights. What sort of crew are on the aircraft for a flight of this duration (and also shorter). Is it just the pilots or are there flight attendants as well?

I was the CA on the FCO-SEA ferry. We had 4 pilots and one mechanic onboard - no FAs. The mechanic was just hitching a ride as he'd been the company rep during the painting process and was returning home. The reason for sending the plane to Rome for painting was that HA had a limited window of time to get several planes painted, and not enough open paint facilities in the U.S.. AS took up most of the domestic space getting the ex-Virgin planes repainted, so HA had to look further afield.


HAL
One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.
 
crownvic
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Re: Hawaiian A330 HNL-FCO

Thu Jan 31, 2019 10:33 am

I say eliminate the other 71 posts and go with HAL...thank you for answering everyone's comments, questions, speculations and dribble in one post...
 
spartanmjf
Posts: 511
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2005 11:31 am

Re: Hawaiian A330 HNL-FCO

Thu Jan 31, 2019 12:53 pm

crownvic wrote:
I say eliminate the other 71 posts and go with HAL...thank you for answering everyone's comments, questions, speculations and dribble in one post...


Let's not forget Moose135's great shots of what is obviously a beautiful paint job!
"Nuts to the man in 21D!"
 
HAL
Posts: 1773
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Re: Hawaiian A330 HNL-FCO

Fri Feb 01, 2019 5:38 am

spartanmjf wrote:
crownvic wrote:
I say eliminate the other 71 posts and go with HAL...thank you for answering everyone's comments, questions, speculations and dribble in one post...


Let's not forget Moose135's great shots of what is obviously a beautiful paint job!


Agreed - keep the photos! Funny thing was, we left FCO at night, flew 12 hours, landed at SEA at night, and I really never got a good look at the paint job until a week later when I saw it in HNL. :-)

HAL
One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.

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