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planemanofnz
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D7 drops AKL

Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:45 am

Hi all

Just in - D7 is dropping its Auckland to Kuala Lumpur (via Gold Coast) route from February.

See: https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/108 ... land-route.

A shame, indeed. Hopefully it can come back as a non-stop flight at some point in the future.

Cheers,

C.
 
zkncj
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Re: D7 drops AKL

Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:45 am

No one can make an profit doing AKL-ASIA (via OOL) for $199NZD, so wonder why this flight is ending....
 
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zkojq
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Re: D7 drops AKL

Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:08 am

Even less Trans Tasman competition. Very sad.
First to fly the 787-9
 
juliuswong
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Re: D7 drops AKL

Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:08 am

Too long to make profit........sad to see them leaving New Zealand again. Their baggage fee is one of the highest among all AirAsia X destinations. Not surprised it meets its end.
- Life is a journey, travel it well -
 
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flee
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Re: D7 drops AKL

Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:26 am

planemanofnz wrote:
Hopefully it can come back as a non-stop flight at some point in the future.

Yes, it should be more economically viable if flown non-stop using the A339.
 
eamondzhang
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Re: D7 drops AKL

Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:32 am

Not too surprised by this move. This is their second time pulling out of NZ after ending KUL-CHC nonstop a couple years ago. They seems to be struggling to make NZ work in general (for now anyway).

Michael
 
clrd4t8koff
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Re: D7 drops AKL

Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:33 am

Why does that article focus on what Matt and his friends will do next and when they’re meeting to talk about it. WHO CARES?!
 
planemanofnz
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Re: D7 drops AKL

Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:18 am

You have to wonder why they didn't drop it down to 3x or 4x weekly from daily, or make it seasonal (NW), before deciding to axe AKL completely?

Cheers,

C.
 
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flee
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Re: D7 drops AKL

Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:26 am

planemanofnz wrote:
You have to wonder why they didn't drop it down to 3x or 4x weekly from daily, or make it seasonal (NW), before deciding to axe AKL completely?

As stated in their press release, it is for operational efficiency reasons. Apparently, the resources deployed on the OOL-AKL sector would yield better results if diverted to their North East Asian routes.
 
L0VE2FLY
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Re: D7 drops AKL

Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:50 am

They should do KUL-CBR-AKL, which will make them the only carrier flying both sectors nonstop, the A321LR would be perfect for such route. I know D7 don't operate the A321neo but AK do have them on order.
 
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flee
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Re: D7 drops AKL

Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:00 am

L0VE2FLY wrote:
They should do KUL-CBR-AKL, which will make them the only carrier flying both sectors nonstop, the A321LR would be perfect for such route. I know D7 don't operate the A321neo but AK do have them on order.

D7 is reported to be talking to Airbus to convert some A339s into A321Neo LRs.
 
L0VE2FLY
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Re: D7 drops AKL

Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:31 pm

flee wrote:
L0VE2FLY wrote:
They should do KUL-CBR-AKL, which will make them the only carrier flying both sectors nonstop, the A321LR would be perfect for such route. I know D7 don't operate the A321neo but AK do have them on order.

D7 is reported to be talking to Airbus to convert some A339s into A321Neo LRs.


I hope it's just a rumor, the last thing the A330neo needs is more conversions or cancellations! What's the point of D7 getting narrowbodies when their parent company have plenty of them? I thought they were created to operate widebodies only. Long and thin routes can be flown by AK's A321LR instead.
 
zkncj
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Re: D7 drops AKL

Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:27 pm

planemanofnz wrote:
You have to wonder why they didn't drop it down to 3x or 4x weekly from daily, or make it seasonal (NW), before deciding to axe AKL completely?

Cheers,

C.


Or even replace it with a direct AKL service? although guess there crammed in A330s don't have the legs to make AKL with an decent passenger load onboard? Ideally need a couple of A320's based in AKL that could connect to the A330 services in other Australian Ports, and hopefully via this have Tasman Traffic Rights.

But when you've got full service Chineses based airlines constantly offering AKL-Asia for around $600 return, is there really the need for an AKL-Asia LCC market?
 
planemanofnz
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Re: D7 drops AKL

Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:32 pm

zkncj wrote:
... when you've got full service Chineses based airlines constantly offering AKL-Asia for around $600 return, is there really the need for an AKL-Asia LCC market?

China is very different to SE Asia - and yes, I believe there is a market for an LCC to SE Asia, as fares on most carriers for AKL - SE Asia are quite high. Perhaps Cebu Pacific will give AKL a try?

Cheers,

C.
 
zkncj
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Re: D7 drops AKL

Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:46 pm

planemanofnz wrote:
zkncj wrote:
... when you've got full service Chineses based airlines constantly offering AKL-Asia for around $600 return, is there really the need for an AKL-Asia LCC market?

China is very different to SE Asia - and yes, I believe there is a market for an LCC to SE Asia, as fares on most carriers for AKL - SE Asia are quite high. Perhaps Cebu Pacific will give AKL a try?
.


Although those Chineses based airlines offer pretty good deals to SE Asia via China, even-though it means back tracking to the average passenger for that price they don't care too much.

AKL-SE Asia isn't to bad, taking an sample for say an 7 day return trip in April 2019.

AKL-DPS $920return
AKL-SIN $994return
AKL-HKT $989return
AKL-SGN $980return
AKL-HKG $900return

Average it out at say $1000/return with an average flight of 11hours, you're only looking at $45/hour is pretty good for the distance being traveled.

Say AKL-SYD on an $229 oneway fare would be $65/hour with no meals, drinks bags etc.
 
crazyplane1234
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Re: D7 drops AKL

Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:48 pm

L0VE2FLY wrote:
What's the point of D7 getting narrowbodies when their parent company have plenty of them? I thought they were created to operate widebodies only. Long and thin routes can be flown by AK's A321LR instead.

My assumption is that if the conversion goes through, the newly-converted aircraft will be transferred to AK.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: D7 drops AKL

Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:53 pm

planemanofnz wrote:
zkncj wrote:
... when you've got full service Chineses based airlines constantly offering AKL-Asia for around $600 return, is there really the need for an AKL-Asia LCC market?

China is very different to SE Asia - and yes, I believe there is a market for an LCC to SE Asia, as fares on most carriers for AKL - SE Asia are quite high. Perhaps Cebu Pacific will give AKL a try?

Cheers,

C.


Well both JQ to SIN and D7 twice have failed to make NZ work. Cebu have been talked about for some time, I’m not sure how they would go to MNL with PR already offering it non stop from AKL.

Is there a market? Or is that part of the reason these flights so far haven’t worked out? Rising fuel prices not helping? To much Competition? Maybe Kiwis just don’t like Low cost long haul?
 
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c933103
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Re: D7 drops AKL

Sat Nov 10, 2018 12:58 am

zkncj wrote:
planemanofnz wrote:
zkncj wrote:
... when you've got full service Chineses based airlines constantly offering AKL-Asia for around $600 return, is there really the need for an AKL-Asia LCC market?

China is very different to SE Asia - and yes, I believe there is a market for an LCC to SE Asia, as fares on most carriers for AKL - SE Asia are quite high. Perhaps Cebu Pacific will give AKL a try?
.


Although those Chineses based airlines offer pretty good deals to SE Asia via China, even-though it means back tracking to the average passenger for that price they don't care too much.

AKL-SE Asia isn't to bad, taking an sample for say an 7 day return trip in April 2019.

AKL-DPS $920return
AKL-SIN $994return
AKL-HKT $989return
AKL-SGN $980return
AKL-HKG $900return

Average it out at say $1000/return with an average flight of 11hours, you're only looking at $45/hour is pretty good for the distance being traveled.

Say AKL-SYD on an $229 oneway fare would be $65/hour with no meals, drinks bags etc.

For $1000 return that probably mean it's even more expensive than trans-pacific flights?
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zkncj
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Re: D7 drops AKL

Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:20 am

c933103 wrote:
For $1000 return that probably mean it's even more expensive than trans-pacific flights?


Trans-pacific flights average out around $1400NZD return, you'll get the odd deals to say LAX for $1100NZD return but extremely limited. Two years ago AKL-LAX for $2200NZD return was an good deal...
 
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flee
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Re: D7 drops AKL

Sat Nov 10, 2018 6:22 am

L0VE2FLY wrote:
I hope it's just a rumor, the last thing the A330neo needs is more conversions or cancellations! What's the point of D7 getting narrowbodies when their parent company have plenty of them? I thought they were created to operate widebodies only. Long and thin routes can be flown by AK's A321LR instead.

There are Bloomberg and Reuters reports plus the Airbus Orders and Deliveries spreadsheet has not firmed up the 34 A339s that were the subject of their Farnborough MoU.

D7's business model is to operate flights above 4 hours while AK's flights are up to 4 hours. As such AK does not need LR aircraft of any sort. Both companies have different shareholders, stock exchange listings and management. However, they do work closely together to share costs and coordinate their flight schedules.

ZK-NBT wrote:
Is there a market? Or is that part of the reason these flights so far haven’t worked out? Rising fuel prices not helping? To much Competition? Maybe Kiwis just don’t like Low cost long haul?

The problem is that the A333 aircraft is at the limits of its performance on this route. It can't quite carry the full payload if it flies non-stop. That is why there is a tech stop at OOL and D7 had hoped that they also pick up some trans Tasman business. Loads are pretty good but yields are terrible. With oil prices rising this year, yields are further eroded and they decided it is better to deploy the aircraft on more profitable sectors.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: D7 drops AKL

Sat Nov 10, 2018 7:45 am

Yes I agree the A333 isn’t ideal beyond about 10hrs, MH had that issue with it to for AKL particularly ex AKL. D7 have very densely configured aircraft.

So the main issue seems to be fuel prices rising and lack of a more suitable aircraft.

DY have some long routes and TR 2-3 long hauls but how sustainable is the low cost long haul idea beyond 8-9hrs?
 
NZ321
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Re: D7 drops AKL

Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:00 pm

I'm kinda hoping with D7 gone we might see yields improve enough for MH between KUL and AKL to justify them switching to the A359. Not at all happy with the recently acquired ex Air Berlin A332s which I flew to Auckland last month. A definite product downgrade and I am now opting to use other carriers between KUL and AKL.
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flee
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Re: D7 drops AKL

Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:55 pm

NZ321 wrote:
I'm kinda hoping with D7 gone we might see yields improve enough for MH between KUL and AKL to justify them switching to the A359. Not at all happy with the recently acquired ex Air Berlin A332s which I flew to Auckland last month. A definite product downgrade and I am now opting to use other carriers between KUL and AKL.

Not likely as yields on North East Asia routes are superior to those of NZ.

Currently, MH A359s operate to LHR, NRT, SYD and KIX.
 
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c933103
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Re: D7 drops AKL

Sat Nov 10, 2018 4:44 pm

zkncj wrote:
c933103 wrote:
For $1000 return that probably mean it's even more expensive than trans-pacific flights?


Trans-pacific flights average out around $1400NZD return, you'll get the odd deals to say LAX for $1100NZD return but extremely limited. Two years ago AKL-LAX for $2200NZD return was an good deal...

Ah I was thinking about USD and also thinking about Asian TPAC instead of Oceanian TPAC.
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