Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
flyenthu
Topic Author
Posts: 590
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:37 pm

5 LAX/SFO daily flights by SQ?

Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:01 pm

Hello!

Are there 3 daily flights by SQ from LAX and 2 daily from SFO? Isn't that a lot to sustain? Perhaps these markets are growing robustly.

Any thoughts?

Flyenthu
 
DFWA350
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2018 4:41 pm

Re: 5 LAX/SFO daily flights by SQ?

Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:12 pm

SQ is dropping one of the LAX flights from Dec. 1. It is the one that goes through ICN I believe.
 
BoeingGuy
Posts: 6313
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:01 pm

Re: 5 LAX/SFO daily flights by SQ?

Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:24 pm

Singapore? Have you ever heard of code share flights? ;)

Probably code share connecting flights with UA or AS.
 
flyenthu
Topic Author
Posts: 590
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:37 pm

Re: 5 LAX/SFO daily flights by SQ?

Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:41 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
Singapore? Have you ever heard of code share flights? ;)

Probably code share connecting flights with UA or AS.


Of course..what are you thinking! :lol: I am talking about SQ 7, 11, 37, 1, and 31.
 
MKIAZ
Posts: 262
Joined: Thu May 01, 2014 5:24 am

Re: 5 LAX/SFO daily flights by SQ?

Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:44 pm

flyenthu wrote:
Hello!

Are there 3 daily flights by SQ from LAX and 2 daily from SFO? Isn't that a lot to sustain? Perhaps these markets are growing robustly.

Any thoughts?

Flyenthu


Yea but only one is a nonstop to SIN. The others serve major Asian markets ICN/NRT/HKG.
 
User avatar
SFOA380
Posts: 578
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 4:35 am

Re: 5 LAX/SFO daily flights by SQ?

Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:47 pm

LAX and SFO will eventually each have 10/wk nonstop to Singapore and daily to Hong Kong (SFO) and Tokyo (LAX) so 34 weekly between the two. The Seoul flight will he dropped.
 
theasianguy
Posts: 165
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 10:31 am

Re: 5 LAX/SFO daily flights by SQ?

Sat Nov 10, 2018 6:03 pm

SFO has 24 weekly frequencies between SFO-SIN nonstop. (2x daily on UA, 1x daily + 3x weekly on SQ). Definitely not sustainable.
 
BoeingGuy
Posts: 6313
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:01 pm

Re: 5 LAX/SFO daily flights by SQ?

Sat Nov 10, 2018 6:26 pm

flyenthu wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
Singapore? Have you ever heard of code share flights? ;)

Probably code share connecting flights with UA or AS.


Of course..what are you thinking! :lol: I am talking about SQ 7, 11, 37, 1, and 31.


Oh okay. Somehow I thought you meant LAX-SFO flights, by your title. You meant from each of them to SIN.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 17989
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

Re: 5 LAX/SFO daily flights by SQ?

Sat Nov 10, 2018 6:50 pm

theasianguy wrote:
SFO has 24 weekly frequencies between SFO-SIN nonstop. (2x daily on UA, 1x daily + 3x weekly on SQ). Definitely not sustainable.

I'm not even sure daily LAX nonstop is sustainable, and certainly not with a high J config. SFO is surely the higher yield of the two.
I don't take responsibility at all
 
flyenthu
Topic Author
Posts: 590
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:37 pm

Re: 5 LAX/SFO daily flights by SQ?

Sat Nov 10, 2018 6:56 pm

theasianguy wrote:
SFO has 24 weekly frequencies between SFO-SIN nonstop. (2x daily on UA, 1x daily + 3x weekly on SQ). Definitely not sustainable.


Although the 359 and 789s carry fewer pax than 777s. So, who knows, it might work out on a long shot.
 
flyenthu
Topic Author
Posts: 590
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:37 pm

Re: 5 LAX/SFO daily flights by SQ?

Sat Nov 10, 2018 7:02 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
flyenthu wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
Singapore? Have you ever heard of code share flights? ;)

Probably code share connecting flights with UA or AS.


Of course..what are you thinking! :lol: I am talking about SQ 7, 11, 37, 1, and 31.


Oh okay. Somehow I thought you meant LAX-SFO flights, by your title. You meant from each of them to SIN.


I humbly suggest reading the posts.
 
BoeingGuy
Posts: 6313
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:01 pm

Re: 5 LAX/SFO daily flights by SQ?

Sat Nov 10, 2018 7:08 pm

flyenthu wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
flyenthu wrote:

Of course..what are you thinking! :lol: I am talking about SQ 7, 11, 37, 1, and 31.


Oh okay. Somehow I thought you meant LAX-SFO flights, by your title. You meant from each of them to SIN.


I humbly suggest reading the posts.


I did. To be fair, neither your title or first post were that clear. I suppose I could have done a better job of inferring what you meant, but one shouldn’t have to.

What does “5 LAX/SFO daily flights” mean to you?
 
User avatar
janders
Moderator
Posts: 1101
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:27 pm

Re: 5 LAX/SFO daily flights by SQ?

Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:27 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
I'm not even sure daily LAX nonstop is sustainable, and certainly not with a high J config. SFO is surely the higher yield of the two.


SQ surely knows where the money comes from and designated LAX and EWR its high premium ULR routes. Same during A345 days the first time around.

If SQ did not believe LAX would provide the yield it needed, it would not be wasting the effort with that special configuration and kept the LAX flights as is.
"We make war that we may live in peace." -- Aristotle
 
cedarjet
Posts: 8783
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 1:12 am

Re: 5 LAX/SFO daily flights by SQ?

Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:36 pm

theasianguy wrote:
SFO has 24 weekly frequencies between SFO-SIN nonstop. (2x daily on UA, 1x daily + 3x weekly on SQ). Definitely not sustainable.

It might be adjusted slightly (if fuel goes up, definitely), but if it wasn’t busy UA wouldn’t have added the second daily flight, and SQ wouldn’t have the extra double daily on three days a week, they’d have pegged it at daily or even just 3-5 a week.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
User avatar
Aeroflot777
Posts: 3178
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 2:19 pm

Re: 5 LAX/SFO daily flights by SQ?

Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:49 pm

theasianguy wrote:
SFO has 24 weekly frequencies between SFO-SIN nonstop. (2x daily on UA, 1x daily + 3x weekly on SQ). Definitely not sustainable.


Meanwhile, I'm trying to find myself some decently-priced seats on this route, and most of (UA's at least) flights are quite filled up.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 17989
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

Re: 5 LAX/SFO daily flights by SQ?

Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:54 pm

janders wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
I'm not even sure daily LAX nonstop is sustainable, and certainly not with a high J config. SFO is surely the higher yield of the two.


SQ surely knows where the money comes from and designated LAX and EWR its high premium ULR routes. Same during A345 days the first time around.

If SQ did not believe LAX would provide the yield it needed, it would not be wasting the effort with that special configuration and kept the LAX flights as is.

I'm not totally sure; I wouldn't doubt that they feel they "need" to be in LAX. If UA couldn't make it work as the only nonstop in the market, with much more feed--and when they did launch the nonstop, fares cratered to the 600s rt all in--I'm not sure how a lower density SQ flight will fare better.
I don't take responsibility at all
 
Gemuser
Posts: 5078
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 12:07 pm

Re: 5 LAX/SFO daily flights by SQ?

Sun Nov 11, 2018 12:29 am

BoeingGuy wrote:
flyenthu wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:

Oh okay. Somehow I thought you meant LAX-SFO flights, by your title. You meant from each of them to SIN.


I humbly suggest reading the posts.


I did. To be fair, neither your title or first post were that clear. I suppose I could have done a better job of inferring what you meant, but one shouldn’t have to.

What does “5 LAX/SFO daily flights” mean to you?

When you include the part of the title you did not quote ie "by SQ" I would take it to mean between SIN and LAX and/or SFO. A SQ operation by SQ between LA & SFO, even by code share, would be the last thing I would think of from the title.

Gemuer
 
eamondzhang
Posts: 1683
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:23 am

Re: 5 LAX/SFO daily flights by SQ?

Sun Nov 11, 2018 12:34 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
janders wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
I'm not even sure daily LAX nonstop is sustainable, and certainly not with a high J config. SFO is surely the higher yield of the two.


SQ surely knows where the money comes from and designated LAX and EWR its high premium ULR routes. Same during A345 days the first time around.

If SQ did not believe LAX would provide the yield it needed, it would not be wasting the effort with that special configuration and kept the LAX flights as is.

I'm not totally sure; I wouldn't doubt that they feel they "need" to be in LAX. If UA couldn't make it work as the only nonstop in the market, with much more feed--and when they did launch the nonstop, fares cratered to the 600s rt all in--I'm not sure how a lower density SQ flight will fare better.

You have to factor in the weight restriction that UA faced on its normal config 789 - SQ having a more capable plane and less dense config will certainly fare better in these circumstances than UA faces. And SQ does have a massive feed in SIN - well SQ and UA does transfer their passenger onto each other's plane now!

LAX also has AS for SQ if they really need that connection as well.

Michael
 
iadadd
Posts: 277
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2016 10:16 pm

Re: 5 LAX/SFO daily flights by SQ?

Sun Nov 11, 2018 1:12 am

People overestimate how "high yielding" SFO is compared to LAX. LAX has a catchment area of 18 million, many of whom are well off, and easily form the most important economic region in the Western Hemisphere after NYC. Yes, San Francisco probably has more of a Corporate scene, but that doesn't mean LA can't support high yielding traffic either, and 10x weekly on LAX-SIN should work well.

If SQ will reduce, it'll be SFO, because 24 weekly nonstops on SFO-SIN (between UA and SQ) is overkill. IMO, If UA and SQ were better partners, than we'd likely see a synergized SFO-SIN operation
 
flyenthu
Topic Author
Posts: 590
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:37 pm

Re: 5 LAX/SFO daily flights by SQ?

Sun Nov 11, 2018 1:37 am

theasianguy wrote:
SFO has 24 weekly frequencies between SFO-SIN nonstop. (2x daily on UA, 1x daily + 3x weekly on SQ). Definitely not sustainable.


Wow...Just wondering what the SFO-SIN frequency was pre any nonstop to SIN? I know there were 2 flights to SIN, one via ICN and one via HKG. That would make 14 flights to SIN (via ICN and HKG) by SQ. Not sure how many UA flights were there from SFO to SIN per week pre nonstops.
 
Fastphilly
Posts: 361
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:32 am

Re: 5 LAX/SFO daily flights by SQ?

Sun Nov 11, 2018 4:04 am

flyenthu wrote:
theasianguy wrote:
SFO has 24 weekly frequencies between SFO-SIN nonstop. (2x daily on UA, 1x daily + 3x weekly on SQ). Definitely not sustainable.


Wow...Just wondering what the SFO-SIN frequency was pre any nonstop to SIN? I know there were 2 flights to SIN, one via ICN and one via HKG. That would make 14 flights to SIN (via ICN and HKG) by SQ. Not sure how many UA flights were there from SFO to SIN per week pre nonstops.


I don’t believe UA offered any flights from SFO to SIN prior to their nonstops
 
flyenthu
Topic Author
Posts: 590
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:37 pm

Re: 5 LAX/SFO daily flights by SQ?

Sun Nov 11, 2018 4:33 am

Fastphilly wrote:
flyenthu wrote:
theasianguy wrote:
SFO has 24 weekly frequencies between SFO-SIN nonstop. (2x daily on UA, 1x daily + 3x weekly on SQ). Definitely not sustainable.


Wow...Just wondering what the SFO-SIN frequency was pre any nonstop to SIN? I know there were 2 flights to SIN, one via ICN and one via HKG. That would make 14 flights to SIN (via ICN and HKG) by SQ. Not sure how many UA flights were there from SFO to SIN per week pre nonstops.


I don’t believe UA offered any flights from SFO to SIN prior to their nonstops


So, 24 non-stops flights from SFO-SIN per week (UA and SQ) + 7 one-stop flights (SQ 1 via HKG) = 31 weekly flights from SFO-SIN.

That would mean an increase from 14 flights to 31 flights per week on the SFO-SIN route, which is about 121% increase.

I don't have much knowledge about what this means in terms of demand/supply. Probably there's way more demand for this route than previously thought.
 
USAirALB
Posts: 2230
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:46 am

Re: 5 LAX/SFO daily flights by SQ?

Sun Nov 11, 2018 5:08 am

Fastphilly wrote:
flyenthu wrote:
theasianguy wrote:
SFO has 24 weekly frequencies between SFO-SIN nonstop. (2x daily on UA, 1x daily + 3x weekly on SQ). Definitely not sustainable.


Wow...Just wondering what the SFO-SIN frequency was pre any nonstop to SIN? I know there were 2 flights to SIN, one via ICN and one via HKG. That would make 14 flights to SIN (via ICN and HKG) by SQ. Not sure how many UA flights were there from SFO to SIN per week pre nonstops.


I don’t believe UA offered any flights from SFO to SIN prior to their nonstops

Prior to the nonstop flights, the UA SIN flights were routed IAD-NRT-SIN and ORD-HKG-SIN. I flew the SIN-HKG leg a couple of years back and the GIDS showed the destination as "Chicago via Hong Kong" or something like that. I recall walking by the NRT flight and the GIDS showing something similar as "Washington via Narita".
RJ85, F70, E135, E140, E145, E70, E75, E90, CR2, CR7, CR9, 717, 732, 733, 734, 735, 73G, 738, 739, 744, 752, 753, 762, 772, 77E, 77W, 789, 319, 320, 321, 332, 333, 343, 359, 388
 
LondonXtreme
Posts: 160
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:24 pm

Re: 5 LAX/SFO daily flights by SQ?

Sun Nov 11, 2018 5:52 am

UA flies two daily to SIN for decades, these two flights used to via NRT and HKG with 747 or 777. So, I think UA should sustain 2 daily nonstop SFO-SIN with 789 now and it's not relate to how SQ is doing at SFO.
 
LondonXtreme
Posts: 160
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:24 pm

Re: 5 LAX/SFO daily flights by SQ?

Sun Nov 11, 2018 5:56 am

flyenthu wrote:
Fastphilly wrote:
flyenthu wrote:

Wow...Just wondering what the SFO-SIN frequency was pre any nonstop to SIN? I know there were 2 flights to SIN, one via ICN and one via HKG. That would make 14 flights to SIN (via ICN and HKG) by SQ. Not sure how many UA flights were there from SFO to SIN per week pre nonstops.


I don’t believe UA offered any flights from SFO to SIN prior to their nonstops


So, 24 non-stops flights from SFO-SIN per week (UA and SQ) + 7 one-stop flights (SQ 1 via HKG) = 31 weekly flights from SFO-SIN.

That would mean an increase from 14 flights to 31 flights per week on the SFO-SIN route, which is about 121% increase.

I don't have much knowledge about what this means in terms of demand/supply. Probably there's way more demand for this route than previously thought.

The frequency of SFO-SIN has surpassed SFO-TYO/ICN/PVG/PEK, and just slightly behind SFO-HKG/TPE in Asia.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 17989
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

Re: 5 LAX/SFO daily flights by SQ?

Sun Nov 11, 2018 6:19 am

eamondzhang wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
janders wrote:

SQ surely knows where the money comes from and designated LAX and EWR its high premium ULR routes. Same during A345 days the first time around.

If SQ did not believe LAX would provide the yield it needed, it would not be wasting the effort with that special configuration and kept the LAX flights as is.

I'm not totally sure; I wouldn't doubt that they feel they "need" to be in LAX. If UA couldn't make it work as the only nonstop in the market, with much more feed--and when they did launch the nonstop, fares cratered to the 600s rt all in--I'm not sure how a lower density SQ flight will fare better.

You have to factor in the weight restriction that UA faced on its normal config 789 - SQ having a more capable plane and less dense config will certainly fare better in these circumstances than UA faces. And SQ does have a massive feed in SIN - well SQ and UA does transfer their passenger onto each other's plane now!

LAX also has AS for SQ if they really need that connection as well.

Michael

There's just no way that UA's seat block was equivalent to 90+ seats. I don't see how SQ's 161 seats can produce more revenue than UA's 252 seats, or where anything of much value is connecting beyond SIN.
I don't take responsibility at all
 
panam330
Posts: 2150
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 11:58 am

Re: 5 LAX/SFO daily flights by SQ?

Sun Nov 11, 2018 7:30 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
eamondzhang wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
I'm not totally sure; I wouldn't doubt that they feel they "need" to be in LAX. If UA couldn't make it work as the only nonstop in the market, with much more feed--and when they did launch the nonstop, fares cratered to the 600s rt all in--I'm not sure how a lower density SQ flight will fare better.

You have to factor in the weight restriction that UA faced on its normal config 789 - SQ having a more capable plane and less dense config will certainly fare better in these circumstances than UA faces. And SQ does have a massive feed in SIN - well SQ and UA does transfer their passenger onto each other's plane now!

LAX also has AS for SQ if they really need that connection as well.

Michael

There's just no way that UA's seat block was equivalent to 90+ seats. I don't see how SQ's 161 seats can produce more revenue than UA's 252 seats, or where anything of much value is connecting beyond SIN.

For the last decade and a half, I've normally agreed with just about everything you've said, and I greatly value your contributions to the site at a time when factual information is definitely waning, but I'm curious how you think that 67J/94W seats can't produce a measurable premium over 48J/204Y/Y+ seats when it's really only the Y fares that are in the toilet. It is notably difficult to be able to use a SWU on UA to SIN these days, and I can't imagine that SQ has much of an issue with people paying for J if UA can muster it with sub-par hard and soft products. Additional to that, with a lower seat count, SQ should be able to maximize its cargo revenue on the 359ULR versus UA's more restricted 787s.
 
AngMoh
Posts: 1031
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2011 5:03 am

Re: 5 LAX/SFO daily flights by SQ?

Sun Nov 11, 2018 8:03 am

flyenthu wrote:
theasianguy wrote:
SFO has 24 weekly frequencies between SFO-SIN nonstop. (2x daily on UA, 1x daily + 3x weekly on SQ). Definitely not sustainable.


Wow...Just wondering what the SFO-SIN frequency was pre any nonstop to SIN? I know there were 2 flights to SIN, one via ICN and one via HKG. That would make 14 flights to SIN (via ICN and HKG) by SQ. Not sure how many UA flights were there from SFO to SIN per week pre nonstops.


I think there has been no real increase in capacity over the long run. The main difference is that the stop can now be skipped.

If I remember correctly, SQ has been twice daily for ages to both SFO and LAX. Around 1998 there was SIN-NRT-LAX, SIN-TPE-LAX (remember SQ007 crash?), SIN-HKG-SFO and SIN-ICN-SFO. The first 3 were 747 with 350+ pax capacity while the last one was A340-300->77E->77F. Then when SIN-LAX direct was started, SIN-TPE-LAX was cancelled. When the direct flight was cancelled, I don't think there was a replacement, but SIN-NRT-LAX was upgraded to A380. With SIN-SFO direct being started, SIN-ICN-SFO was changed to SIN-ICN-LAX. This flight is now being cancelled as SIN-LAX direct is started. And keep in mind that most flights now are either 253 seats A350 or 163 seat A350ULR and the rest is 264 seat 4-class 77W.

From american carriers, NW was very high profile while DL is almost out of the market unless to places like Detroit. UA used to have 2 flights INTO SIN (1 via NRT and 1 via HKG) and that has not really changed - they are just direct now.

So overall there is no huge capacity increase but with the A359 and 788/789 the stop in in the middle can be avoided. This is really the long and thin connections which Boeing advertised so heavily for the 787 becoming a reality.
727 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739/ER 742 743 744/M 752 753 762 772 77E 773 77W 788 A300 A310 A319 A320 A321 A332 A333 A343 A345 A346 A359 A35K A388 DC-9 DC-10 MD11 MD81 MD82 MD87 F70 ERJ145 E170 E175 E190 E195 ATR72 Q400 CRJ200 CRJ700 CRJ900 BAE146 RJ85
 
strfyr51
Posts: 4861
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: 5 LAX/SFO daily flights by SQ?

Sun Nov 11, 2018 8:54 am

BoeingGuy wrote:
Singapore? Have you ever heard of code share flights? ;)

Probably code share connecting flights with UA or AS.

I would seriously doubt SQ is code sharing with UA. While they're both Star Alliance, SQ and UA have never been PALS.
UA handles and maintains SQ airplanes at SFO and I suspect at LAX as well as SQ might well do for UAL at Singapore.
We helped set up CASTL maintenance in Hong Kong, which SQ now owns. SQ might very well be interlining passengers.
BUT?? If sq is interlining passengers? Then they really wouldn't have to "Tag End" flights from LAX to SFO then would they??
 
Swadian
Posts: 563
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2016 4:56 am

Re: 5 LAX/SFO daily flights by SQ?

Sun Nov 11, 2018 8:55 am

flyenthu wrote:
theasianguy wrote:
SFO has 24 weekly frequencies between SFO-SIN nonstop. (2x daily on UA, 1x daily + 3x weekly on SQ). Definitely not sustainable.


Although the 359 and 789s carry fewer pax than 777s. So, who knows, it might work out on a long shot.


A359s and 789s do not carry less pax than 777s, though they do carry far less than the 744s which used to fly this route.
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Posts: 24443
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

Re: 5 LAX/SFO daily flights by SQ?

Sun Nov 11, 2018 12:51 pm

Have to remember these nonstop services are all within SIA larger stated plan to reduce tag flying and connect the US nonstop to its SIN hub.

So while yes it might seem much to have double daily nonstops to LAX and SFO somedays of the week, its all within the desire to offer nonstop versus tag links to North America.

Long term SQ will certainly become more competitive to both its home base and for beyond SIN connections by eliminating enroute stops on these US services.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
airbazar
Posts: 10083
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: 5 LAX/SFO daily flights by SQ?

Sun Nov 11, 2018 1:02 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
theasianguy wrote:
SFO has 24 weekly frequencies between SFO-SIN nonstop. (2x daily on UA, 1x daily + 3x weekly on SQ). Definitely not sustainable.

I'm not even sure daily LAX nonstop is sustainable, and certainly not with a high J config. SFO is surely the higher yield of the two.

LOL that's funny. You do realize they've already done that in the past right? And that the flights operated full? And that LAX is a market 3 times larger than SFO for O&D alone? And when you add connection possibilities beyond SIN, LAX is even larger than SFO?
 
tcaeyx
Posts: 143
Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2015 11:32 pm

Re: 5 LAX/SFO daily flights by SQ?

Sun Nov 11, 2018 1:24 pm

airbazar wrote:
And that LAX is a market 3 times larger than SFO for O&D alone? And when you add connection possibilities beyond SIN, LAX is even larger than SFO?


I know this was certainly the case a decade ago when this route was operated with an A345, but I'm curious to see what the numbers are like now. Would you mind sharing the source for the PDEW data?
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 17989
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

Re: 5 LAX/SFO daily flights by SQ?

Sun Nov 11, 2018 3:12 pm

airbazar wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
theasianguy wrote:
SFO has 24 weekly frequencies between SFO-SIN nonstop. (2x daily on UA, 1x daily + 3x weekly on SQ). Definitely not sustainable.

I'm not even sure daily LAX nonstop is sustainable, and certainly not with a high J config. SFO is surely the higher yield of the two.

LOL that's funny. You do realize they've already done that in the past right? And that the flights operated full? And that LAX is a market 3 times larger than SFO for O&D alone? And when you add connection possibilities beyond SIN, LAX is even larger than SFO?

And what happened to the last LAX nonstop attempt? And where are these critical connections beyond SIN to? Of course there's an LAX market, but SQ has to make money where UA couldn't, on nearly 100 fewer seats, with fewer online connections. That said, I suspect SQ's TPAC profitability bar is a lot lower than UA's, and the nonstop may perform better than the various one stops to the Americas.
I don't take responsibility at all
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3558
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: 5 LAX/SFO daily flights by SQ?

Sun Nov 11, 2018 3:35 pm

flyenthu wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
flyenthu wrote:

Of course..what are you thinking! :lol: I am talking about SQ 7, 11, 37, 1, and 31.


Oh okay. Somehow I thought you meant LAX-SFO flights, by your title. You meant from each of them to SIN.


I humbly suggest reading the posts.


I humbly agree with him. the title suggest they are doing 5 LAX/SFO flights. Could you or a moderator put a more clear title please?
 
User avatar
SFOA380
Posts: 578
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 4:35 am

Re: 5 LAX/SFO daily flights by SQ?

Sun Nov 11, 2018 3:54 pm

tcaeyx wrote:
airbazar wrote:
And that LAX is a market 3 times larger than SFO for O&D alone? And when you add connection possibilities beyond SIN, LAX is even larger than SFO?


I know this was certainly the case a decade ago when this route was operated with an A345, but I'm curious to see what the numbers are like now. Would you mind sharing the source for the PDEW data?


He can’t share a source because it’s not true. Greater LA isn’t three times larger than Greater Bay Area and LAX O&D certainly isn’t three times larger. Last data I saw on here somewhere showed PDEW nearly identical for LAX/SFO - SIN.
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3558
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: 5 LAX/SFO daily flights by SQ?

Sun Nov 11, 2018 4:44 pm

Swadian wrote:
flyenthu wrote:
theasianguy wrote:
SFO has 24 weekly frequencies between SFO-SIN nonstop. (2x daily on UA, 1x daily + 3x weekly on SQ). Definitely not sustainable.


Although the 359 and 789s carry fewer pax than 777s. So, who knows, it might work out on a long shot.


A359s and 789s do not carry less pax than 777s, though they do carry far less than the 744s which used to fly this route.



Do you know the size difference for those frames. Your incorrect, here are current seat maps for UA/SQ.
UA:
777-300ER: 366 seats: 60B, 102 E+, 204E
777-200ER: 292 seats: 50B, 80 E+, 162E
787-9: 252 seats: 48B, 88 E+, 116E

SQ:
A350-900: 253 seats: 42J, 24 PE, 187E
A350-900ULR: 161 seats: 67J, 94 PE

Whre do you see they are the same size as a 777?
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3558
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: 5 LAX/SFO daily flights by SQ?

Sun Nov 11, 2018 5:35 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
airbazar wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
I'm not even sure daily LAX nonstop is sustainable, and certainly not with a high J config. SFO is surely the higher yield of the two.

LOL that's funny. You do realize they've already done that in the past right? And that the flights operated full? And that LAX is a market 3 times larger than SFO for O&D alone? And when you add connection possibilities beyond SIN, LAX is even larger than SFO?

And what happened to the last LAX nonstop attempt? And where are these critical connections beyond SIN to? Of course there's an LAX market, but SQ has to make money where UA couldn't, on nearly 100 fewer seats, with fewer online connections. That said, I suspect SQ's TPAC profitability bar is a lot lower than UA's, and the nonstop may perform better than the various one stops to the Americas.


You realize the Pointy end & PE were full on the flights. Indicating they needed more J & PE and fewer E. So they went A359ULR.
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3558
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: 5 LAX/SFO daily flights by SQ?

Sun Nov 11, 2018 6:16 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
eamondzhang wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
I'm not totally sure; I wouldn't doubt that they feel they "need" to be in LAX. If UA couldn't make it work as the only nonstop in the market, with much more feed--and when they did launch the nonstop, fares cratered to the 600s rt all in--I'm not sure how a lower density SQ flight will fare better.

You have to factor in the weight restriction that UA faced on its normal config 789 - SQ having a more capable plane and less dense config will certainly fare better in these circumstances than UA faces. And SQ does have a massive feed in SIN - well SQ and UA does transfer their passenger onto each other's plane now!

LAX also has AS for SQ if they really need that connection as well.

Michael

There's just no way that UA's seat block was equivalent to 90+ seats. I don't see how SQ's 161 seats can produce more revenue than UA's 252 seats, or where anything of much value is connecting beyond SIN.


Based on prices for J & PE yes they can produce more revenue
SQ nonstop: LAX-SIN: Nov 12-Nov 16,
8823.90 for J seats, 2062.90 for PE seats.

UA nonstop: SFO-SIN: Nov 12-Nov 16,
$4913 RT for j seats, $1395 RTfor E seats with Flexible fare.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 17989
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

Re: 5 LAX/SFO daily flights by SQ?

Sun Nov 11, 2018 6:21 pm

SFOA380 wrote:
He can’t share a source because it’s not true. Greater LA isn’t three times larger than Greater Bay Area and LAX O&D certainly isn’t three times larger. Last data I saw on here somewhere showed PDEW nearly identical for LAX/SFO - SIN.

SFO has been bigger than LAX for a while now

rbavfan wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
airbazar wrote:
LOL that's funny. You do realize they've already done that in the past right? And that the flights operated full? And that LAX is a market 3 times larger than SFO for O&D alone? And when you add connection possibilities beyond SIN, LAX is even larger than SFO?

And what happened to the last LAX nonstop attempt? And where are these critical connections beyond SIN to? Of course there's an LAX market, but SQ has to make money where UA couldn't, on nearly 100 fewer seats, with fewer online connections. That said, I suspect SQ's TPAC profitability bar is a lot lower than UA's, and the nonstop may perform better than the various one stops to the Americas.


You realize the Pointy end & PE were full on the flights. Indicating they needed more J & PE and fewer E. So they went A359ULR.

Of course--you think UA would have dumped the route so fast if it was filling J and the balance with high Y fares?
I don't take responsibility at all
 
LAXLHR
Posts: 453
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2016 10:07 am

Re: 5 LAX/SFO daily flights by SQ?

Sun Nov 11, 2018 10:48 pm

It's unfortunate that many on here are lacking in airline/aviation history (ALL re searchable thanks to google) ;-).

To also think that LA does not have a massive corporate scene, or that its smaller than SFO is interesting. Many think Silicon Valley, forgetting that many of the high paid SV jobs have moved to the LA area, even NYC. Not to mention Hollywood $$ which I could talk extensively, aerospace, finance, dirty rich people and the list goes on. There is a reason LAX has exploded in numbers over the past 10 years. EVERYONE wants a piece of the LA basin money.
BA IB ET JM EA GK PA VS AA SN HP CO W7 WN NW DL UA AC US LH LX OS JL QF QR WY MH CX U2 EK 9W UK TP VY VN LO OK OZ UL SQ LA

707 727 L10 732-NG 741 742 743 744 752 753 762 763 772 773 787 DC8 DC9 DC10 M80 M11 100 AB3 310 318 319 320 321 330s 340s 350 380
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Posts: 24443
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

Re: 5 LAX/SFO daily flights by SQ?

Sun Nov 11, 2018 11:09 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
Of course--you think UA would have dumped the route so fast if it was filling J and the balance with high Y fares?


UA was filling the premium cabin - matter of fact it would often book near full more than a few weeks out, not the typical booking curve for longhaul markets. SIN has long been a strong premium market for UA and the reason it's maintained double daily tag flights for decades even if economy loads did not justify it.

As was stated at employee event, they ended up dropping the LAX nonstop because of performance hit it was taking. The 1 hour additional flying versus SFO with need to regularly block 40 seats in the winter and sometimes as high as 60 and the resultant economics are what killed it.

One of the reasons of going double daily at SFO was desire to offer a different schedule choice and belief they would still capture and have the LA basin be the number one feeder market for the route. Let's see if they are right or if flyers instead opt for new SQ nonstop or other 1-stop options instead of sticking with UA.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
User avatar
SFOA380
Posts: 578
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 4:35 am

Re: 5 LAX/SFO daily flights by SQ?

Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:34 am

LAXLHR wrote:
It's unfortunate that many on here are lacking in airline/aviation history (ALL re searchable thanks to google) ;-).

To also think that LA does not have a massive corporate scene, or that its smaller than SFO is interesting. Many think Silicon Valley, forgetting that many of the high paid SV jobs have moved to the LA area, even NYC. Not to mention Hollywood $$ which I could talk extensively, aerospace, finance, dirty rich people and the list goes on. There is a reason LAX has exploded in numbers over the past 10 years. EVERYONE wants a piece of the LA basin money.


I don’t think anyone is saying that LA doesn’t have a massive CORP presence. Of course it does. It’s by a giant margin the second biggest city in the USA. Also, Silicon Valley hasn’t moved jobs anywhere. Tech has sprouted up up all over the place, LA included. Certainly SV companies have expanded elsewhere just like Amazon and Microsoft have expanded in SV. What lots of people don’t realize is the fact that GDP per capita here dwarfs NYC and LA. That creates O&D, high yields, etc. beyond what is typical. Bay Area is third in terms of overall O&D despite being the fifth largest CSA.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 17989
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

Re: 5 LAX/SFO daily flights by SQ?

Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:53 pm

LAXintl wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
Of course--you think UA would have dumped the route so fast if it was filling J and the balance with high Y fares?


UA was filling the premium cabin - matter of fact it would often book near full more than a few weeks out, not the typical booking curve for longhaul markets. SIN has long been a strong premium market for UA and the reason it's maintained double daily tag flights for decades even if economy loads did not justify it.

As was stated at employee event, they ended up dropping the LAX nonstop because of performance hit it was taking. The 1 hour additional flying versus SFO with need to regularly block 40 seats in the winter and sometimes as high as 60 and the resultant economics are what killed it.

One of the reasons of going double daily at SFO was desire to offer a different schedule choice and belief they would still capture and have the LA basin be the number one feeder market for the route. Let's see if they are right or if flyers instead opt for new SQ nonstop or other 1-stop options instead of sticking with UA.

I'm sure that was part of it, but airlines generally don't cancel profitable flying, and even with 60 held seats, that's still 30+ more seats than SQ's ULR, and LAX seems to have a solid discount to SFO with respect to SIN traffic--how does SQ overcome all of those issues?
I don't take responsibility at all

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos