720B
Topic Author
Posts: 297
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2015 10:52 am

KLM Amsterdam – Bogota – Cartagena – Amsterdam increase 6 / week as of NS19

Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:09 pm

As per Airline routes. Flight must be doing well. Back when it started was just 3 / week

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-09nov18/


Amsterdam – Bogota – Cartagena – Amsterdam eff 01NOV19 Increase from 5 weekly in NS19 to 6 weekly, 787-9 operating
Last edited by SQ22 on Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Operating airline added to title
 
jfk777
Posts: 6993
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

Re: Amsterdam – Bogota – Cartagena – Amsterdam increase 6 / week as of NS19

Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:19 pm

Why does KLM stop in Cartagena on its way back to Amsterdam when all other 787 flights to Europe, largely Avianca, go nonstop ?
 
jfk777
Posts: 6993
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

Re: Amsterdam – Bogota – Cartagena – Amsterdam increase 6 / week as of NS19

Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:20 pm

Why does KLM stop in Cartagena on its way back to Amsterdam when all other 787 flights to Europe, largely Avianca, go nonstop ?
 
76er
Posts: 615
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 8:04 pm

Re: Amsterdam – Bogota – Cartagena – Amsterdam increase 6 / week as of NS19

Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:23 pm

To maximize cargo (flowers) and pax uplift. And AMS of course is just a little further away than e.g. CDG.
 
User avatar
frigatebird
Posts: 1668
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2008 7:02 pm

Re: Amsterdam – Bogota – Cartagena – Amsterdam increase 6 / week as of NS19

Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:06 pm

It's also quite convenient for tourists who do want to do a tour of the country, starting in Bogota, and finishing in Cartagena.

I won't be surprised to see increased demand from Dutch tourists for Colombia next year. One of the most popular tv game shows in The Netherlands will be hosted from Colombia early next year.
146,318/19/20/21, AB6,332,333,343,345,388, 722,732/3/4/5/G/8,9, 742,74E,744,752,762,763, 772,77E,773,77W,788 AT4/7,ATP,CRK,E75/90,F50/70
 
dcajet
Posts: 4031
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: Amsterdam – Bogota – Cartagena – Amsterdam increase 6 / week as of NS19

Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:42 pm

jfk777 wrote:
Why does KLM stop in Cartagena on its way back to Amsterdam when all other 787 flights to Europe, largely Avianca, go nonstop ?


Because KLM relies on cargo too. Why leave money on the table, departing BOG for Europe non stop, with penalties, when it can add CTG to its network, giving its customers an extra choice in Colombia and operationally without the kind of performance penalties that BOG's height imposes. Cartagena is booming these days, they tried Cali but promptly moved the stop to CTG.
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
86hoya
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2016 9:08 pm

Re: KLM Amsterdam – Bogota – Cartagena – Amsterdam increase 6 / week as of NS19

Mon Nov 12, 2018 7:36 pm

CTG runway is 2,600 meters long (8,500 feet)....and hot and humid....any performance issues possible leaving there full of passengers and cargo with afternoon temperatures around 28-32C?
 
76er
Posts: 615
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 8:04 pm

Re: KLM Amsterdam – Bogota – Cartagena – Amsterdam increase 6 / week as of NS19

Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:04 pm

The fact that CTG sits at sea level certainly helps. And on top of that it’s also 350NM north of BOG.
 
dirk88
Posts: 56
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2016 2:10 pm

Re: Amsterdam – Bogota – Cartagena – Amsterdam increase 6 / week as of NS19

Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:49 am

frigatebird wrote:
It's also quite convenient for tourists who do want to do a tour of the country, starting in Bogota, and finishing in Cartagena.

I won't be surprised to see increased demand from Dutch tourists for Colombia next year. One of the most popular tv game shows in The Netherlands will be hosted from Colombia early next year.


Wie is de Mol? And how much impact does that have? I understood that KLM's Portland flight benefitted from the season in Oregon, but not sure how long-lasting such increased demand is...
 
BoeingGuy
Posts: 6313
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:01 pm

Re: Amsterdam – Bogota – Cartagena – Amsterdam increase 6 / week as of NS19

Tue Nov 13, 2018 5:33 am

dirk88 wrote:
frigatebird wrote:
It's also quite convenient for tourists who do want to do a tour of the country, starting in Bogota, and finishing in Cartagena.

I won't be surprised to see increased demand from Dutch tourists for Colombia next year. One of the most popular tv game shows in The Netherlands will be hosted from Colombia early next year.


Wie is de Mol? And how much impact does that have? I understood that KLM's Portland flight benefitted from the season in Oregon, but not sure how long-lasting such increased demand is...


Interesting since KLM has never served Portland with its own metal.
 
dirk88
Posts: 56
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2016 2:10 pm

Re: Amsterdam – Bogota – Cartagena – Amsterdam increase 6 / week as of NS19

Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:54 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
dirk88 wrote:
frigatebird wrote:
It's also quite convenient for tourists who do want to do a tour of the country, starting in Bogota, and finishing in Cartagena.

I won't be surprised to see increased demand from Dutch tourists for Colombia next year. One of the most popular tv game shows in The Netherlands will be hosted from Colombia early next year.


Wie is de Mol? And how much impact does that have? I understood that KLM's Portland flight benefitted from the season in Oregon, but not sure how long-lasting such increased demand is...


Interesting since KLM has never served Portland with its own metal.
Fair enough, Delta flight. But considering their metal neutral joint venture that doesn't matter.
 
clo1973
Posts: 151
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2006 1:29 pm

Re: Amsterdam – Bogota – Cartagena – Amsterdam increase 6 / week as of NS19

Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:24 pm

dcajet wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
Why does KLM stop in Cartagena on its way back to Amsterdam when all other 787 flights to Europe, largely Avianca, go nonstop ?


Because KLM relies on cargo too. Why leave money on the table, departing BOG for Europe non stop, with penalties, when it can add CTG to its network, giving its customers an extra choice in Colombia and operationally without the kind of performance penalties that BOG's height imposes. Cartagena is booming these days, they tried Cali but promptly moved the stop to CTG.


Some facts to your comment...

1. KLM did not "promptly" moved out of Cali, they did after close to two years.
2. Certainly, was not for lack of passengers, KLM expectative was to move aprox. 40% of pax in/outbound CLO and that is what they
were achieving.
3. Benefits of Cartagena vs Cali is a shorter route and possibility to reduce sleep over of a crew.
 
factsonly
Posts: 2696
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:08 pm

Re: KLM Amsterdam – Bogota – Cartagena – Amsterdam increase 6 / week as of NS19

Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:41 pm

It is all about maximizing yield and profitability.

KLM suffered increasing competition on Cali-Europe from AV and indirectly from others.
At Cartagena there are no other operators to Europe, so the stop at CTG offers KLM:

- a 200NM shorter route, so less fuel is used and lower crew hours = lower operating costs.
- aircraft returns earlier to AMS, permitting higher utilization = profitability.
- less competition means higher yields = greater profitability.
- CTG is a developing beach/tourist market, so more market potential = 6x weekly flights in NS19.
- CTG offers MTOW, so no payload restrictions to AMS permitting max pax and cargo = profitability.


http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=ams-bog-clo-ams;+ams-bog-ctg-ams
 
dcajet
Posts: 4031
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: Amsterdam – Bogota – Cartagena – Amsterdam increase 6 / week as of NS19

Wed Nov 14, 2018 4:54 pm

clo1973 wrote:
dcajet wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
Why does KLM stop in Cartagena on its way back to Amsterdam when all other 787 flights to Europe, largely Avianca, go nonstop ?


Because KLM relies on cargo too. Why leave money on the table, departing BOG for Europe non stop, with penalties, when it can add CTG to its network, giving its customers an extra choice in Colombia and operationally without the kind of performance penalties that BOG's height imposes. Cartagena is booming these days, they tried Cali but promptly moved the stop to CTG.


Some facts to your comment...

1. KLM did not "promptly" moved out of Cali, they did after close to two years.
2. Certainly, was not for lack of passengers, KLM expectative was to move aprox. 40% of pax in/outbound CLO and that is what they
were achieving.
3. Benefits of Cartagena vs Cali is a shorter route and possibility to reduce sleep over of a crew.


I understand your points and hope KLM (or any other airline) can return to Cali sometime soon. In the meantime, the fact is that Cartagena works out better for them - for a number of reasons.
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
RCS763AV
Posts: 3792
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:22 am

Re: KLM Amsterdam – Bogota – Cartagena – Amsterdam increase 6 / week as of NS19

Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:35 am

factsonly wrote:
It is all about maximizing yield and profitability.

KLM suffered increasing competition on Cali-Europe from AV and indirectly from others.
At Cartagena there are no other operators to Europe, so the stop at CTG offers KLM:

- a 200NM shorter route, so less fuel is used and lower crew hours = lower operating costs.
- aircraft returns earlier to AMS, permitting higher utilization = profitability.
- less competition means higher yields = greater profitability.
- CTG is a developing beach/tourist market, so more market potential = 6x weekly flights in NS19.
- CTG offers MTOW, so no payload restrictions to AMS permitting max pax and cargo = profitability.


http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=ams-bog-clo-ams;+ams-bog-ctg-ams


Adding to that, for BOG originating pax, the flight to AMS via CTG is 1.5hrs less than through CLO. This certainly helped with attracting more BOG-originated passengers which are generally higher yielding. Gotta remember that the flight operated for 2.5 years via CLO and stayed at 3x/week, while just months after changing to CTG it started increasing in frequency. I guess we'll see it operating daily in W20.

Also, as was mentioned, CLO got overcrowded with 3 airlines going to Europe, which ended in KL and IB withdrawing service. Although CLO has volume, it has few premium traffic to Europe. The current 6x weekly AV to MAD might be enough for now until the Colombian economy picks up.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos