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JAXDan
Topic Author
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Spirit adds JAX-FLL/BWI EFF 2/14/19

Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:22 am

 
727LOVER
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Re: Spirit adds JAX-FLL/BWI EFF 2/14/19

Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:36 am

This will make how many airlines on JAX-FLL.....three? Along with B6 & 3M Can't remember if 3M flies this route


Great news for JAX !
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
JAXDan
Topic Author
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Re: Spirit adds JAX-FLL/BWI EFF 2/14/19

Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:41 am

727LOVER wrote:
This will make how many airlines on JAX-FLL.....three? Along with B6 & 3M Can't remember if 3M flies this route


Great news for JAX !


WN is the 3rd airline that flies JAX-FLL
 
MaksFly
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Re: Spirit adds JAX-FLL/BWI EFF 2/14/19

Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:10 am

Jax-FFL should be a no brainer for Spirit... they can really cut costs and quite honestly, for such a short flight, who cares about comfort.
 
727LOVER
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Re: Spirit adds JAX-FLL/BWI EFF 2/14/19

Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:17 am

JAXDan wrote:
WN is the 3rd airline that flies JAX-FLL


I thought they quit that route :melting:
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
JAXDan
Topic Author
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Re: Spirit adds JAX-FLL/BWI EFF 2/14/19

Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:00 am

727LOVER wrote:
JAXDan wrote:
WN is the 3rd airline that flies JAX-FLL


I thought they quit that route :melting:


3M left JAX this month ending TPA & MHH service.
WN shows 3x daily JAX-FLL through the end of their schedule in June.
 
santi319
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Re: Spirit adds JAX-FLL/BWI EFF 2/14/19

Tue Nov 13, 2018 5:52 am

They added this and DEN/KIN-MCO also. Theyre on a roll in Florida it seems. I bet MAO or BEL are comming from FLL. Can they snatch the unused MEX slots from B6? MCO and LAS from MEX make total sense..
 
krsw757
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Re: Spirit adds JAX-FLL/BWI EFF 2/14/19

Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:48 pm

727LOVER wrote:
JAXDan wrote:
WN is the 3rd airline that flies JAX-FLL


I thought they quit that route :melting:


They dropped it a year or two ago, and then recently started it back up again earlier this year
 
jplatts
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Re: Spirit adds JAX-FLL/BWI EFF 2/14/19

Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:08 pm

In addition to the JAX-FLL and JAX-BWI nonstops, NK could also add DFW-JAX nonstop service since DFW is one of the largest NK stations in NK's network.
 
evank516
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Re: Spirit adds JAX-FLL/BWI EFF 2/14/19

Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:10 pm

JAX-FLL and JAX-BWI. Seems to be a direct aim at WN.
 
tphuang
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Re: Spirit adds JAX-FLL/BWI EFF 2/14/19

Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:13 pm

I doubt JAX-FLL can support 3 carriers. My guess is that WN will loose out.
 
ScottB
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Re: Spirit adds JAX-FLL/BWI EFF 2/14/19

Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:47 pm

MaksFly wrote:
Jax-FFL should be a no brainer for Spirit... they can really cut costs and quite honestly, for such a short flight, who cares about comfort.


ULCCs, in my opinion, tend to be less competitive in shorter markets because the bait-and-switch pricing model works less well. With shorter distances, somewhat fewer passengers need to check a bag or carry on a large rollaboard, and the amount of space to underprice the incumbents is smaller. WN's advance purchase fare is $59 for their JAX-FLL non-stops. Given how high NK's bag fees are, it would be cheaper to book on WN if you needed to check two bags -- even if the NK fare were $0.

The other issue with short haul is that those routes tend to be heavier on repeat customers. These people are more likely to have existing frequent flyer plan loyalties and repeat customers will eventually figure out how to game NK's bait-and-switch pricing model.

tphuang wrote:
I doubt JAX-FLL can support 3 carriers. My guess is that WN will loose out.


I don't think a single daily round-trip on NK with terrible flight times will have much impact on WN or B6.
 
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enilria
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Re: Spirit adds JAX-FLL/BWI EFF 2/14/19

Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:54 pm

ScottB wrote:
MaksFly wrote:
Jax-FFL should be a no brainer for Spirit... they can really cut costs and quite honestly, for such a short flight, who cares about comfort.


ULCCs, in my opinion, tend to be less competitive in shorter markets because the bait-and-switch pricing model works less well. With shorter distances, somewhat fewer passengers need to check a bag or carry on a large rollaboard, and the amount of space to underprice the incumbents is smaller. WN's advance purchase fare is $59 for their JAX-FLL non-stops. Given how high NK's bag fees are, it would be cheaper to book on WN if you needed to check two bags -- even if the NK fare were $0.

The other issue with short haul is that those routes tend to be heavier on repeat customers. These people are more likely to have existing frequent flyer plan loyalties and repeat customers will eventually figure out how to game NK's bait-and-switch pricing model.

tphuang wrote:
I doubt JAX-FLL can support 3 carriers. My guess is that WN will loose out.


I don't think a single daily round-trip on NK with terrible flight times will have much impact on WN or B6.

So, I've watched this dynamic before. First, the NK model works poorly in short haul because they don't alter their bag fees by distance, so it's hard to get the fare low enough for that to work. So that scored points for B6/WN. There is no legacy with Basic Economy in the market which also helps B6/WN. They really get whipsawed in markets where a legacy undercuts them with Basic Economy because of NK/F9 "matching". Those markets are worst case scenario for B6/WN and AS as well. So, I think NK fails with JAX-FLL. I doubt WN is doing too well either.
 
SWADawg
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Re: Spirit adds JAX-FLL/BWI EFF 2/14/19

Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:24 pm

They added both markets on Valentines Day for crying out loud, of course this is aimed at WN. During Spirit Week which is a week long tradition every year at WN, NK added “week” under the Spirit name at all of their ticket counters this year as a passive aggressive jab at WN. I’m not sure why they seem to want to poke the bear, but good luck to them. I guess they figure that WN is so preoccupied with going after AS in California that they won’t face any retaliation. We shall see I guess.
My posts are my opinion only and do not reflect the views of Southwest Airlines
 
shadez
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Re: Spirit adds JAX-FLL/BWI EFF 2/14/19

Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:28 pm

I think JAX-FLL is largely to use a free aircraft early in the am/late in the pm to feed FLL connections. If it injects profitable $$$ into the Latin America and Caribbean network, it will stay.
 
JAXDan
Topic Author
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Re: Spirit adds JAX-FLL/BWI EFF 2/14/19

Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:32 pm

tphuang wrote:
I doubt JAX-FLL can support 3 carriers. My guess is that WN will loose out.


Took a look at 2/15/19 and found B6 with 3X JAX-FLL on E190's, WN 3X on 737s, and NK 1X on an A319. That's almost 900 JAX-FLL seats a day so you're probably right.
 
evank516
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Re: Spirit adds JAX-FLL/BWI EFF 2/14/19

Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:42 pm

To add, UA has upgauged to more mainline on ORD-JAX with 3 flights on 2/14. 2/15 shows 2x mainline 1x RJ (E170). We know DL went 2x daily mainline on DTW-JAX following the NK announcement, and it seems AA boosted capacity as well on ORD-JAX with 2x 738 on ORD-JAX. All in all, NK's adds in Jacksonville seem to be great for JAX fliers.
 
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Rajahdhani
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Re: Spirit adds JAX-FLL/BWI EFF 2/14/19

Tue Nov 13, 2018 5:36 pm

ScottB wrote:
MaksFly wrote:
Jax-FFL should be a no brainer for Spirit... they can really cut costs and quite honestly, for such a short flight, who cares about comfort.


ULCCs, in my opinion, tend to be less competitive in shorter markets because the bait-and-switch pricing model works less well. With shorter distances, somewhat fewer passengers need to check a bag or carry on a large rollaboard, and the amount of space to underprice the incumbents is smaller. WN's advance purchase fare is $59 for their JAX-FLL non-stops. Given how high NK's bag fees are, it would be cheaper to book on WN if you needed to check two bags -- even if the NK fare were $0.

The other issue with short haul is that those routes tend to be heavier on repeat customers. These people are more likely to have existing frequent flyer plan loyalties and repeat customers will eventually figure out how to game NK's bait-and-switch pricing model.

tphuang wrote:
I doubt JAX-FLL can support 3 carriers. My guess is that WN will loose out.


I don't think a single daily round-trip on NK with terrible flight times will have much impact on WN or B6.


Fantastic overview of the market. To add, the O/D traffic on both ends would require cars to commute around town. Neither Fort Lauderdale, nor Jacksonville had very well developed mass transit systems (akin the the likes of other large metropolitan areas within the nation) and so, despite the distance being a far drive - sometimes the concept of traveling with a car to drive when they get there (a la driving) is a decent one. Those at this price range, are essentially who NK would be attempting to target. Those that are on the business (or, upper cost end) would rely more heavily on their FF benefits/programs and have rental cars ready for them when they arrive.

I see these adds are necessary, though for NK. FLL is crowded, and in order to retain relevancy, they too have to grow their intra-Floridian routes, and the non-FLL presence (a la their recent MCO international route expansion). WN is already so large here, almost without effort. B6 commands a presence and has a significant following. NK needs to be a credible third presence - and perhaps greater connectivity to a hub will assist in greater overall yields to the network.

Interestingly, though - as WN moves to the MAX, as well as NK to the NEOs - what would ultiumatley be best aircraft for either ex-FLL for their intra-Floridian and routes? B6 has the E190 and uses is it well here (especially as JAX-DCA is also operated on the E190). Will the arrival of aircraft that are so well suited to longer routes, make the economics for these shorter routes - harder to justify in future?
 
msycajun
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Re: Spirit adds JAX-FLL/BWI EFF 2/14/19

Tue Nov 13, 2018 5:41 pm

Probably deserves its own thread, or at least an update to the title, but they also just announced SJU-TPA/BWI daily routes starting Feb 14.
 
CHIMAA
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Re: Spirit adds JAX-FLL/BWI EFF 2/14/19

Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:19 pm

I am positive it will hit WN pretty hard on BWI-JAX as i see price difference of $60 ~ . Even if i add Spirit package special which gives me all that is given by WN( free bags. no change fee) + selected Seat(WN charges $20~ extra for this service)+double miles( Only 1 time miles @ WN)+Priority security( Not there in WN) , The fare is $3~5 less than WN. This is badly needed for travelling public to make sure WN comes to terms and reduce their pricing . WN prices are pretty bad when there is no competition.
 
SurfandSnow
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Re: Spirit adds JAX-FLL/BWI EFF 2/14/19

Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:35 pm

I always felt like northern Florida - from PNS to JAX - was drastically underserved by low fare carriers relative to central and southern Florida. It's been great to see that changing in recent years!
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
 
ScottB
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Re: Spirit adds JAX-FLL/BWI EFF 2/14/19

Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:24 pm

SurfandSnow wrote:
I always felt like northern Florida - from PNS to JAX - was drastically underserved by low fare carriers relative to central and southern Florida. It's been great to see that changing in recent years!


Those markets, with the possible exception of JAX, are quite a bit smaller than the central/southern Florida markets. As vacation destinations, they're relatively poor choices for winter getaways because the weather isn't reliably warm. They're also a fair bit more reliant on vacationers who drive rather than fly. And you can't discount the impact of the large numbers of retirees who have flocked to Miami/Tampa/Ft. Myers/Orlando/Ft. Lauderdale/West Palm Beach/Sarasota/etc. -- that hasn't been seen at the same scale along the northern Gulf Coast due to the potential for chillier weather.

CHIMAA wrote:
This is badly needed for travelling public to make sure WN comes to terms and reduce their pricing . WN prices are pretty bad when there is no competition.


How do you figure that? WN is $129 one-way about a month out for the JAX-BWI non-stop. AA wants more than twice that for TLH-DCA while both AA & B6 are around $170 on those same dates for DCA-JAX. They seem pretty reasonable compared to other carriers.
 
CHIMAA
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Re: Spirit adds JAX-FLL/BWI EFF 2/14/19

Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:43 pm

CHIMAA wrote:
This is badly needed for travelling public to make sure WN comes to terms and reduce their pricing . WN prices are pretty bad when there is no competition.


How do you figure that? WN is $129 one-way about a month out for the JAX-BWI non-stop. AA wants more than twice that for TLH-DCA while both AA & B6 are around $170 on those same dates for DCA-JAX. They seem pretty reasonable compared to other carriers.[/quote]

I was just comparing various sectors i use like CHI to BDL. No competitions from ULCC. fares almost reach $200~ one way 14 days out. I have not compared others,I think NK will fare them at least $50 less than WN from march or WN will come down on pricing to $70~ for overall customer pocket happiness. Anyhow competition is always good. I Vote for ULCC to drive value for us(consumers).
 
evank516
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Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: Spirit adds JAX-FLL/BWI EFF 2/14/19

Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:46 pm

SurfandSnow wrote:
I always felt like northern Florida - from PNS to JAX - was drastically underserved by low fare carriers relative to central and southern Florida. It's been great to see that changing in recent years!


The problem with Northern Florida is these areas aren't exactly winter escapes compared to Central and South Florida. They're not really warm in January and February. It's great to see the surge in air service, but they're not warm weather winter destinations by any means despite the fact that they're warmer than areas further north.
 
santi319
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Re: Spirit adds JAX-FLL/BWI EFF 2/14/19

Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:50 pm

I think NK is and has always been underestimated here in a-net (who knows why theres almost no difference now between them and coach in the legacies nowadays).

They are the healthiest theyve ever been. It was largely ignored in this forum, of course - but they got an amazing Q3 perfomance, their stock is up, and they were the number 1 on time carrier in America for the month of October, number 3 overall so far in this year.

Hate them all you want but compared to all the other non legacies, they have their stuff together.
 
ATA767
Posts: 428
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Re: Spirit adds JAX-FLL/BWI EFF 2/14/19

Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:47 pm

shadez wrote:
I think JAX-FLL is largely to use a free aircraft early in the am/late in the pm to feed FLL connections. If it injects profitable $$$ into the Latin America and Caribbean network, it will stay.


That is correct. Everyone is looking at it from some big strategic move when it’s a simple connection to so many other destinations that Spirit serves, it is a no brainer. This is no different than their flights from TPA and MCO that have been around forever.

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