747DREAM
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Why DL use everything from 737 to A330 for ATL TO JFK.

Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:35 pm

I know I am going to get chew out for this. But I am booking from ATL TO JFK or anything to NY. I notice when I check for JFK. DL flys 737-8, 737-9, A319, A320, A321, 757-200, 757-300, 767-400, A330-300 in different time of the day. I did not check the othe 2 airport too much.
That’s a lot of different seat count difference and kinda an aviation geek dream to fly some rare bird (764, 757-3). Are the bigger planes flying the route to relocate for longer haul or is there really that big of an difference in needed seats on different time of the day. Thanks, flame suit on. Haha
747-400, 747-200, 737s, 727, CRJ-900, 777-200ER, 777-300ER, MD-88, MD-90, A330, A321, L-1011
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Why DL use everything from 737 to A330 for ATL TO JFK.

Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:49 pm

Or they might have a bigger aircraft sitting around for a number of hours and in this way, they increase the utility of the a/c? ALT and JFK must have a huge pool of pilots and different a/c.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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FlightLevel360
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Re: Why DL use everything from 737 to A330 for ATL TO JFK.

Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:49 pm

Some are repositioning flights. I've seen one-off 777-200LR flights on this route. Several times I have also seen the 767-300ER sub in for the MD-88s.

Here's a recap of what you will most likely get for a flight into any of the major 3 NYC airports (JFK, LGA, EWR)

From EWR: MD-88, Boeing 717, occasional MD-90
From LGA: Mostly Airbus A321, some A320 and the occasional 737-900ER
From JFK: You get all sorts of equipment: Mostly 737-700, 737-900ER, A320, A319, A321, Boeing 757-200S (former Shanghai Airlines configuration)

There are a ton of frequencies flying between NYC and ATL because Delta wants to funnel passengers into its ATL mega hub, which subsequently allows passengers to connect to other destinations within DL's network. However, the main purpose of these flights is to reposition aircraft.
To me, it will always be:
- Bombardier CSeries
- Airbus A321neoLR and A321neoXLR
- EMBRACER ERJ-170, ERJ-175, ERJ-190, and ERJ-195
- MITSUBUSHI MRJ

Anti narrowbody-long range-twinjet gang. Long live the A380 and 747!
 
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Web500sjc
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Re: Why DL use everything from 737 to A330 for ATL TO JFK.

Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:57 pm

There are 3 reasons DL may use all those aircraft (1) Mostly revenue position flights to move the widebodues between thier hubs, (2) moving large amounts of cargo and (3) providing a premium first class seat for travelers who may be continueing on to long haul flights.


As far as seat count, the 757-300 carries about 10 more than a international 767-300 and 10 less than a 767-400. By that token alone, the 767-300 is not really there for it’s passenger carrying capacity. As far as revenue positioning flights, with so many fleet types, Delta doesn’t have many stations where they can bridge aircraft - so they have to build in positioning flights to ensure aircraft get even exposure to MX, flight times and even out the inefficiency of a single hub. The constant wide body traffic also allows large shipments to be passed between large hubs, for instance ATL has a larger SA and Asia presence- whereas JFK does more T-ATL.
Boiler Up!
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Why DL use everything from 737 to A330 for ATL TO JFK.

Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:58 pm

Like Dutchy notes:

1. To increase utilization of widebodies

2. To take advantage of crew & aircraft not based in NYC for JFK-Europe/Africa flights

And, using smaller aircraft to boost frequencies to JFK, for the people who prefer JFK as O&D vs. Newark, LGA or White Plains.
 
ty97
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Re: Why DL use everything from 737 to A330 for ATL TO JFK.

Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:00 pm

This isn't uncommon on hub-to-hub routes for the US3 (and I probably beyond the US3, but that's what I'm most familiar with). In part demand on hub-to-hub, in part availability of equipment that may be idling between long haul turns, and in part repositioning.

For example, AA runs a mixture of 738/32B/321/788 on DFW-ORD. MIA-DFW 738, 32B, 757, 772. MIA-JFK right now is all 757 and 763.
 
747DREAM
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Posts: 17
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Re: Why DL use everything from 737 to A330 for ATL TO JFK.

Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:24 pm

Web500sjc wrote:
There are 3 reasons DL may use all those aircraft (1) Mostly revenue position flights to move the widebodues between thier hubs, (2) moving large amounts of cargo and (3) providing a premium first class seat for travelers who may be continueing on to long haul flights.


As far as seat count, the 757-300 carries about 10 more than a international 767-300 and 10 less than a 767-400. By that token alone, the 767-300 is not really there for it’s passenger carrying capacity. As far as revenue positioning flights, with so many fleet types, Delta doesn’t have many stations where they can bridge aircraft - so they have to build in positioning flights to ensure aircraft get even exposure to MX, flight times and even out the inefficiency of a single hub. The constant wide body traffic also allows large shipments to be passed between large hubs, for instance ATL has a larger SA and Asia presence- whereas JFK does more T-ATL.
FlightLevel360 wrote:
Some are repositioning flights. I've seen one-off 777-200LR flights on this route. Several times I have also seen the 767-300ER sub in for the MD-88s.

Here's a recap of what you will most likely get for a flight into any of the major 3 NYC airports (JFK, LGA, EWR)

From EWR: MD-88, Boeing 717, occasional MD-90
From LGA: Mostly Airbus A321, some A320 and the occasional 737-900ER
From JFK: You get all sorts of equipment: Mostly 737-700, 737-900ER, A320, A319, A321, Boeing 757-200S (former Shanghai Airlines configuration)

There are a ton of frequencies flying between NYC and ATL because Delta wants to funnel passengers into its ATL mega hub, which subsequently allows passengers to connect to other destinations within DL's network. However, the main purpose of these flights is to reposition aircraft.
Dutchy wrote:
Or they might have a bigger aircraft sitting around for a number of hours and in this way, they increase the utility of the a/c? ALT and JFK must have a huge pool of pilots and different a/c.


Web500sjc I never notice the seat count was so close on them! Learn something new. I mostly fly DL, we were about to fly spirit. Since it was cheaper, but after finding out I have to pay for carry on, it was way more then DL, and spirit only have 1 non stop flight.

Flightlevel360
Yeah I got 320 and 757-2 ( which I been tell the wifey I wanted to fly in a 757 mostly an 300 but never catch one yet, 200 is better then nothing haha)
When we flown to Las Vegas we were in brand new 2 months and 1 month old A321, was telling her I wish we were on the flight before (757-300) but it was almost $200 more.


Thanks guys for the reply. It’s makes a lot of sense to move them around. I just never seen so many types on 1 route. So I just went ahead and ask your. Thanks again ( I be laughing if they for some reason sub an A350,for 1 of my flight)
Last edited by 747DREAM on Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
747-400, 747-200, 737s, 727, CRJ-900, 777-200ER, 777-300ER, MD-88, MD-90, A330, A321, L-1011
 
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leleko747
Posts: 380
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Re: Why DL use everything from 737 to A330 for ATL TO JFK.

Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:25 pm

747DREAM wrote:
DL flys 737-8, 737-9


Delta don't have 737 MAX, they still operate NGs.
I wonder when people will understand:
Embraer 190 or simply E190, not ERJ-190. E-Jets are NOT ERJs!
Boeing 747-8, not Boeing 747-800. Same goes for 787.
Airbus A320, not Airbus 320.
Airbii does not exist.
 
747DREAM
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Posts: 17
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Re: Why DL use everything from 737 to A330 for ATL TO JFK.

Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:30 pm

leleko747 wrote:
747DREAM wrote:
DL flys 737-8, 737-9


Delta don't have 737 MAX, they still operate NGs.


I know, I just got too lazy to typeing the last 00! Haha
747-400, 747-200, 737s, 727, CRJ-900, 777-200ER, 777-300ER, MD-88, MD-90, A330, A321, L-1011
 
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leleko747
Posts: 380
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2007 4:16 pm

Re: Why DL use everything from 737 to A330 for ATL TO JFK.

Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:33 pm

747DREAM wrote:

I know, I just trying to skip typeing the last 00.


I suggest you to avoid doing that... it creates confusion over aircraft types.
For example: There's no "767-3", there's 767-300.
People may often mistake a 737-800 (NG) with a 737-8 (MAX). And also, people might think a "787-800" is also correct, which isn't. :shakehead:
I wonder when people will understand:
Embraer 190 or simply E190, not ERJ-190. E-Jets are NOT ERJs!
Boeing 747-8, not Boeing 747-800. Same goes for 787.
Airbus A320, not Airbus 320.
Airbii does not exist.
 
747DREAM
Topic Author
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:05 pm

Re: Why DL use everything from 737 to A330 for ATL TO JFK.

Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:38 pm

It won’t let me fix it, so..
747-400, 747-200, 737s, 727, CRJ-900, 777-200ER, 777-300ER, MD-88, MD-90, A330, A321, L-1011
 
IADCA
Posts: 1854
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 12:24 am

Re: Why DL use everything from 737 to A330 for ATL TO JFK.

Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:54 pm

leleko747 wrote:
747DREAM wrote:

I know, I just trying to skip typeing the last 00.


I suggest you to avoid doing that... it creates confusion over aircraft types.
For example: There's no "767-3", there's 767-300.
People may often mistake a 737-800 (NG) with a 737-8 (MAX). And also, people might think a "787-800" is also correct, which isn't. :shakehead:


Not to mention that if one wants brevity, there are already 3-character codes that make each of these distinctions clear (738/73H vs.3M8). 763 and 788 are perfectly comprehensible, in addition to being precise and correct.
 
evank516
Posts: 1953
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Re: Why DL use everything from 737 to A330 for ATL TO JFK.

Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:02 pm

As of right now, DL has a 767-400 scheduled on JFK-ATL-JFK in March. I have to go to SGF and I'm going to try to get on that flight if it sticks. Totally booking first class for that.
 
7673mech
Posts: 522
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 10:10 am

Re: Why DL use everything from 737 to A330 for ATL TO JFK.

Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:24 pm

leleko747 wrote:
747DREAM wrote:

I know, I just trying to skip typeing the last 00.


I suggest you to avoid doing that... it creates confusion over aircraft types.
For example: There's no "767-3", there's 767-300.
People may often mistake a 737-800 (NG) with a 737-8 (MAX). And also, people might think a "787-800" is also correct, which isn't. :shakehead:


Everyone knows what he meant.
 
dmstorm22
Posts: 520
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:49 pm

Re: Why DL use everything from 737 to A330 for ATL TO JFK.

Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:37 pm

As many have said, largely for positioning (at least the widebodies).

Same reason that UA flies anything from an A320 to a B77W or B77E from EWR to other hubs.
 
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chunhimlai
Posts: 442
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2015 11:03 am

Re: Why DL use everything from 737 to A330 for ATL TO JFK.

Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:41 pm

They dont use b747/b777/a350/a220
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 3520
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Why DL use everything from 737 to A330 for ATL TO JFK.

Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:44 pm

IADCA wrote:
leleko747 wrote:
747DREAM wrote:

I know, I just trying to skip typeing the last 00.


I suggest you to avoid doing that... it creates confusion over aircraft types.
For example: There's no "767-3", there's 767-300.
People may often mistake a 737-800 (NG) with a 737-8 (MAX). And also, people might think a "787-800" is also correct, which isn't. :shakehead:


Not to mention that if one wants brevity, there are already 3-character codes that make each of these distinctions clear (738/73H vs.3M8). 763 and 788 are perfectly comprehensible, in addition to being precise and correct.


Pedantic nonsense up with which we should not put, to paraphrase Churchill. Who’s memorizing the obscure 3-letter codes, it’s like using the IATA codes instead of ICAO codes or just spelling out the destination. Unless it’s a discussion with both NG and MAX models, just say 737.

GF
 
Chasensfo
Posts: 181
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 2:07 am

Re: Why DL use everything from 737 to A330 for ATL TO JFK.

Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:49 pm

chunhimlai wrote:
They dont use b747/b777/a350/a220

747 is long gone! As of 1 year ago.
 
IADCA
Posts: 1854
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 12:24 am

Re: Why DL use everything from 737 to A330 for ATL TO JFK.

Wed Nov 14, 2018 4:49 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
IADCA wrote:
leleko747 wrote:

I suggest you to avoid doing that... it creates confusion over aircraft types.
For example: There's no "767-3", there's 767-300.
People may often mistake a 737-800 (NG) with a 737-8 (MAX). And also, people might think a "787-800" is also correct, which isn't. :shakehead:


Not to mention that if one wants brevity, there are already 3-character codes that make each of these distinctions clear (738/73H vs.3M8). 763 and 788 are perfectly comprehensible, in addition to being precise and correct.


Pedantic nonsense up with which we should not put, to paraphrase Churchill. Who’s memorizing the obscure 3-letter codes, it’s like using the IATA codes instead of ICAO codes or just spelling out the destination. Unless it’s a discussion with both NG and MAX models, just say 737.

GF


Well, the OP was looking for a shorter way to abbreviate "737-800" given that he termed himself too lazy to type the whole thing. Seems like 738 or 73H is a good solution, even shorter than the one he employed. Just tryin' to help a dude out. (And it's not like there are thousands of these and many are obscure, like airport codes - I mean, 752 is not a hard thing to figure out or memorize. Even 73H is pretty easy once you realize that H is the 8th letter of the alphabet.)
 
xxcr
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Re: Why DL use everything from 737 to A330 for ATL TO JFK.

Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:45 pm

the US3 do this quite often, flying their entire fleet between hubs. A lot of times, its to re-position the plane and for cargo.

For UA, you will always see a 77A, 77W, 788, 789 fly between hubs. ( i only know UA's widebody schedule since i dont fly AA or DL) lol
 
SELMER40
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Re: Why DL use everything from 737 to A330 for ATL TO JFK.

Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:44 pm

[quote="Web500sjc"]There are 3 reasons DL may use all those aircraft (1) Mostly revenue position flights to move the widebodues between thier hubs, (2) moving large amounts of cargo and (3) providing a premium first class seat for travelers who may be continueing on to long haul flights.


The number 1 reason for the mix of A/C between JFK-ATL is that the wide-body A/C need to go to KATL for maintenance checks. (See the wide-body thread.)
Teaching this old dog a new trick
 
lavalampluva
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Re: Why DL use everything from 737 to A330 for ATL TO JFK.

Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:00 pm

Probably part of it is it is easier to fill a bigger aircraft needed at another location than to ferry it empty. "May as well make some $$$ with it."
Remind me to send a thank you note to Mr. Boeing.
 
ctrabs0114
Posts: 922
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Re: Why DL use everything from 737 to A330 for ATL TO JFK.

Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:10 pm

[url][/url]
ty97 wrote:
This isn't uncommon on hub-to-hub routes for the US3 (and I probably beyond the US3, but that's what I'm most familiar with). In part demand on hub-to-hub, in part availability of equipment that may be idling between long haul turns, and in part repositioning.

For example, AA runs a mixture of 738/32B/321/788 on DFW-ORD. MIA-DFW 738, 32B, 757, 772. MIA-JFK right now is all 757 and 763.


The chance to fly a 788 might be enough for me to actually fly AA on DFW-ORD instead of my usual WN flight between DAL-MDW (especially since I'm pretty much brand loyal to WN, more so now that I live in the DFW area). I sensed that's why AA puts the 788 on one or two round trips on DFW-ORD, not to mention DFW-LAX.
2019: DAL, MCI, PHX, LAS, DFW, SAT, ORD, SLC, SEA, DTW, PHL, MIA, LAX; B73G (WN x3), B738 (WN, AA, DL), A20N (NK), MD83 (AA), B788 (AA x2), CS1 (DL), B739 (DL), B712 (DL), B752 (AA), B763 (AA), B77W (AA), B789 (AA)
Next: TBA
 
dochawk2
Posts: 91
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2014 10:06 am

Re: Why DL use everything from 737 to A330 for ATL TO JFK.

Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:31 pm

7673mech wrote:
leleko747 wrote:
747DREAM wrote:

I know, I just trying to skip typeing the last 00.


I suggest you to avoid doing that... it creates confusion over aircraft types.
For example: There's no "767-3", there's 767-300.
People may often mistake a 737-800 (NG) with a 737-8 (MAX). And also, people might think a "787-800" is also correct, which isn't. :shakehead:


Everyone knows what he meant.


If by "everyone" you meant me, you are correct sir!
God, give us wings to fly!
 
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Narfish641
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Re: Why DL use everything from 737 to A330 for ATL TO JFK.

Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:15 pm

Had anyone experienced a repositioning flight before on the widebodies? Do they usually sell the tickets cheaper whenever they are repositioning the aircraft to another hub?
Flew on:
SWA 737 738
 
ctrabs0114
Posts: 922
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:09 am

Re: Why DL use everything from 737 to A330 for ATL TO JFK.

Thu Nov 15, 2018 7:41 pm

Narfish641 wrote:
Had anyone experienced a repositioning flight before on the widebodies? Do they usually sell the tickets cheaper whenever they are repositioning the aircraft to another hub?


Can't speak to DL, but it appears as though AA price points on DFW-ORD are about the same whether it's a 738/320 or a 788.
2019: DAL, MCI, PHX, LAS, DFW, SAT, ORD, SLC, SEA, DTW, PHL, MIA, LAX; B73G (WN x3), B738 (WN, AA, DL), A20N (NK), MD83 (AA), B788 (AA x2), CS1 (DL), B739 (DL), B712 (DL), B752 (AA), B763 (AA), B77W (AA), B789 (AA)
Next: TBA
 
thegreatRDU
Posts: 909
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2006 10:47 am

Re: Why DL use everything from 737 to A330 for ATL TO JFK.

Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:44 pm

Narfish641 wrote:
Had anyone experienced a repositioning flight before on the widebodies? Do they usually sell the tickets cheaper whenever they are repositioning the aircraft to another hub?


I've done IAD-IAH several times in the evening on the 772-200ER...it would usually continue on to South America somewhere....
The flights were always full and the prices were slightly cheaper in my opinion..
Our Returning Champion
 
thegreatRDU
Posts: 909
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2006 10:47 am

Re: Why DL use everything from 737 to A330 for ATL TO JFK.

Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:44 pm

Narfish641 wrote:
Had anyone experienced a repositioning flight before on the widebodies? Do they usually sell the tickets cheaper whenever they are repositioning the aircraft to another hub?


I've done IAD-IAH several times in the evening on the 772-200ER...it would usually continue on to South America somewhere....
The flights were always full and the prices were slightly cheaper in my opinion..
Our Returning Champion
 
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aeromoe
Posts: 793
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Re: Why DL use everything from 737 to A330 for ATL TO JFK.

Thu Nov 15, 2018 11:33 pm

Deleted - duplicate.
Last edited by aeromoe on Thu Nov 15, 2018 11:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.
AA AC AS BA BD BF BN BR BY B6 CO CP(2) DG DL EA EI EN FL FT F9 HA HP ICX JI JQ J7 KE KS LH MC NW OC OO OZ(1) OZ(2) PA PI PT QF QQ RM RO RV(1) RV(2) RW SK SM SQ S4 TI TS TW UA UK US UZ VS VX WA WN WS W7 XV YV YX(2) ZZ 9K
 
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aeromoe
Posts: 793
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Re: Why DL use everything from 737 to A330 for ATL TO JFK.

Thu Nov 15, 2018 11:35 pm

Narfish641 wrote:
Had anyone experienced a repositioning flight before on the widebodies? Do they usually sell the tickets cheaper whenever they are repositioning the aircraft to another hub?


Delta did the A350 flight DTW-LAX on July 1, 2018 to position the flight for the inaugural LAX-PVG A350 flight the next day. Several of us on a.net were on the flight...no, the tickets weren't any cheaper in my case. My routing was PHX-MSP-DTW on 30 June then DTW-LAX on the A350 1 July. The rest of the trip back to PHX via revenue flights on Alaska Airlines SFO-PDX-SEA-PHX the next two days. I'm not an airline employee...I only fly revenue.
AA AC AS BA BD BF BN BR BY B6 CO CP(2) DG DL EA EI EN FL FT F9 HA HP ICX JI JQ J7 KE KS LH MC NW OC OO OZ(1) OZ(2) PA PI PT QF QQ RM RO RV(1) RV(2) RW SK SM SQ S4 TI TS TW UA UK US UZ VS VX WA WN WS W7 XV YV YX(2) ZZ 9K
 
gsg013
Posts: 518
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:03 pm

Re: Why DL use everything from 737 to A330 for ATL TO JFK.

Thu Nov 15, 2018 11:59 pm

Narfish641 wrote:
Had anyone experienced a repositioning flight before on the widebodies? Do they usually sell the tickets cheaper whenever they are repositioning the aircraft to another hub?


I flew a DL 767-300 EWR-ATL when they were repositioning the airfract when they switched from 767-300 to 757-200 for the winter on the EWR-CDG route. I flew F and the flight was actually relatively expensive for the EWR-ATL route not sure if a lot of people were just trying to get on a domestic widebody. I did find it interesting the flight had a full meal service in F which I do not usually find to be the case on EWR-ATL when it is MD-88 or B717-200

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