LondonXtreme
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What is VS's strategy in Asia?

Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:28 pm

1. With previously cancellation of NRT and upcoming DXB, VS will only serve HKG, PVG and DEL in Asia. Will these routes sustainable in long term?

2. VS just proposed non stop ULH flight from LHR to PER, I seriously doubt the yields of this route because VS doesn't have enough corporate contracts compare to what BA or QF do. If they are confident about LHR-PER, why not trying some destinations like BKK, SIN, BOM etc? Even resuming NRT or introducing HND service is way more realistic than the route like LHR-PER.
 
User001
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Re: What is VS's strategy in Asia?

Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:40 pm

I personally think VS will add MAN-DEL in time.

-ties in with the Jet partnership (VS codeshare on the new 9W BOM-MAN route already).
-also ties into the bigger DL/KL/AF/9W partnership too.
-Jet have their issues, whereas VS have the growing MAN operation.
-right sized aircraft for the route (A330-200)
-Would be a mainly U.K. sided point of sale, so could suit VS over 9W.
-could be a complimentary route to another to aid aircraft utilisation. For example, if VS launch MAN-MIA at 3 weekly, DEL could also be launched at 3/4 weekly thus fully using one frame.
 
jfk777
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Re: What is VS's strategy in Asia?

Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:17 pm

Virgin should fly to Tokyo again, why they ever left is a puzzle. IF they can fly to Haneda especially. The competition was the same three airlines, one from the UK & two from Japan. Tokyo to Europe is not competitive for the ME3 unlike many other routes to Asia.
 
skipness1E
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Re: What is VS's strategy in Asia?

Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:36 pm

jfk777 wrote:
Virgin should fly to Tokyo again, why they ever left is a puzzle. IF they can fly to Haneda especially. The competition was the same three airlines, one from the UK & two from Japan. Tokyo to Europe is not competitive for the ME3 unlike many other routes to Asia.

Cos pound for pound the same aircraft will make more money on an additional flight to a Delta hub, this has been discussed ad nauseum.
 
SeanM1997
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Re: What is VS's strategy in Asia?

Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:39 pm

Virgin run routes which they have strong codeshare. In the US thats Delta. Delhi is Jet Airways, Shanghai is Air China and Hong Kong is Virgin Australia. They operate Delhi as Jet can't get more slots...working together helps to fill the route and connect onto US flights. Air China can't get slots for a daily Shanghai route, so Virgin operates it. Virgin Australia helps to feed the Hong Kong service from Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane. I don't think Tokyo will launch unless they can get a codeshare partner. Dubai was cut as they had no feed. Maybe we could see Virgin enter Beijing but with Air China operating double daily to London and looking to add a third daily, it's unlikely. Same with Mumbai as Jet as 3x daily flights
 
SeanM1997
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Re: What is VS's strategy in Asia?

Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:41 pm

User001 wrote:
I personally think VS will add MAN-DEL in time.

-ties in with the Jet partnership (VS codeshare on the new 9W BOM-MAN route already).
-also ties into the bigger DL/KL/AF/9W partnership too.
-Jet have their issues, whereas VS have the growing MAN operation.
-right sized aircraft for the route (A330-200)
-Would be a mainly U.K. sided point of sale, so could suit VS over 9W.
-could be a complimentary route to another to aid aircraft utilisation. For example, if VS launch MAN-MIA at 3 weekly, DEL could also be launched at 3/4 weekly thus fully using one frame.


Personally, I think the Mumbai flight will increase to daily and a daily Delhi flight will be brought in with both operated by Jet. They can then feed onto Virgin services to New York, Atlanta, Boston and Los Angeles
 
FlyBitcoin
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Re: What is VS's strategy in Asia?

Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:43 pm

Personally I think DL management's hatred for the ME3 carriers pushed VS to drop DXB. They made a big deal about the competitive disadvantage when they dropped ATL-DXB. They don't want to compete with any of those carriers on any routes with metal that they own ... and DL owns 49% of VS.
So now the only way to DXB on a Delta ticket or with points will be via AMS or CDG.
I thought after the cancellation of ATL-DXB that DL/VS had a pretty good feed from all of those North American gateways to LHR, but the timing of the LHR-DXB service made connections to/from North America pretty brutal.
 
Arion640
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Re: What is VS's strategy in Asia?

Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:01 am

I don’t think there’s a massive future for VS in asia apart from a few pickings in India and Hong Kong, although dropping DXB did come as a surprise to me.

But the Delta tie up opens a lot of doors and more lucrative opportunities over the Atlantic.
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lightsaber
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Re: What is VS's strategy in Asia?

Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:09 am

skipness1E wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
Virgin should fly to Tokyo again, why they ever left is a puzzle. IF they can fly to Haneda especially. The competition was the same three airlines, one from the UK & two from Japan. Tokyo to Europe is not competitive for the ME3 unlike many other routes to Asia.

Cos pound for pound the same aircraft will make more money on an additional flight to a Delta hub, this has been discussed ad nauseum.

The issue for VS is they need more partners in Asia. They just cannot dominate any route, so that hurts yeild.

Skyteam needs to work their Asia strategy.
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jfk777
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Re: What is VS's strategy in Asia?

Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:47 am

lightsaber wrote:
skipness1E wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
Virgin should fly to Tokyo again, why they ever left is a puzzle. IF they can fly to Haneda especially. The competition was the same three airlines, one from the UK & two from Japan. Tokyo to Europe is not competitive for the ME3 unlike many other routes to Asia.

Cos pound for pound the same aircraft will make more money on an additional flight to a Delta hub, this has been discussed ad nauseum.

The issue for VS is they need more partners in Asia. They just cannot dominate any route, so that hurts yeild.

Skyteam needs to work their Asia strategy.


If Virgin needs feed from Skyteam that sound like a case for them to fly to Seoul from London Heathrow in tandem with Korean Air's LHR flights. Virgin does not need another flight to a Delta hub, DL can find an A330 for that mission. Back in 1991 when Virgin first flew from LHR Tokyo was among the first Heathrow routes along with JFK and LAX. IF VA can't make a 787-9 work from LHR to Haneda or NRT they have larger issues, flying another frequency to Atlanta to Detroit is Delta's problem or a just show VA has become "Delta UK", let hope not that would be sad for VA.
 
skipness1E
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Re: What is VS's strategy in Asia?

Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:02 am

jfk777 wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
skipness1E wrote:
Cos pound for pound the same aircraft will make more money on an additional flight to a Delta hub, this has been discussed ad nauseum.

The issue for VS is they need more partners in Asia. They just cannot dominate any route, so that hurts yeild.

Skyteam needs to work their Asia strategy.


If Virgin needs feed from Skyteam that sound like a case for them to fly to Seoul from London Heathrow in tandem with Korean Air's LHR flights. Virgin does not need another flight to a Delta hub, DL can find an A330 for that mission. Back in 1991 when Virgin first flew from LHR Tokyo was among the first Heathrow routes along with JFK and LAX. IF VA can't make a 787-9 work from LHR to Haneda or NRT they have larger issues, flying another frequency to Atlanta to Detroit is Delta's problem or a just show VA has become "Delta UK", let hope not that would be sad for VA.

Virgin is now, rightly, Delta UK, and making money because of this. ICN-LHR is hugely biased towards the Korean POS, with KE using A380s and B748s in summer, OZ A359s and BA struggling to fill the front cabin of their smallest long haul type, the B788. Virgin left the Japanese market because they were squuezed out by ONEWORLD and STAR. JL/BA and NH all moved to HND and had feed, VS got stuck at NRT and were stuck with point to point putting them at a competitive disadvantage. At the end of the day, you fly your assets to where they make you the most money. Hence BA have the majority of their long haul ops to the USA and no longer “fly the flag” to former African colonies! There is NO shame in VS being a de-facto Delta UK, it puts them on more secure financial footing and allows DL to add capacity using VS metal at a lower cost. This is partly why DL closed MAN and gave the ATL route to VS. A VS flight full of frequent fliers connecting with DL across their biggest market is EXACTLY what VS need to do to survive and prosper. The ability to make proper money in market where you have strength, support and presence will keep you in business, not being 1990s Branson and just cherry picking at BA without the clout of BA’s oneworld alliance feed at the other end!
 
FlyBitcoin
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Re: What is VS's strategy in Asia?

Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:09 am

I was just typing the same response using ATL-MAN as the example. If they were playing poker, this move was the ultimate "tell". DL is pulling the strings on the route map. At least the soft product remains distinctively different... for now.
 
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hongkongflyer
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Re: What is VS's strategy in Asia?

Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:21 am

At one point it said that VS will transfer it's HKG-LHR flights to HX (with codeshare) to facility the connection between VS, HX and VA for the Australian market.
But seems the route expansion plan for HX has been onhold.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: What is VS's strategy in Asia?

Thu Nov 15, 2018 3:07 am

jfk777 wrote:
Virgin should fly to Tokyo again, why they ever left is a puzzle. IF they can fly to Haneda especially. The competition was the same three airlines, one from the UK & two from Japan. Tokyo to Europe is not competitive for the ME3 unlike many other routes to Asia.


I don't believe VS ever made money flying to Tokyo. The only plane that they could use for it for a long time, the A340-300, wasn't making money for it. That said, and it would depend on KE really, I'm surprised VS doesn't try it, with a noontime departure from LHR and a late morning departure from ICN (operating within the DL/KE JV). The idea is that with Delta and Korean in a joint venture, Virgin Atlantic could provide feed from London into Seoul with a better arrival time than KE on its own metal. VS should primarily fly to Asian destinations with a SkyTeam presence or where other SkyTeam partners have close links (such as ICN, PVG, and Indian destinations). I'm okay with VS dropping DXB since they can't compete against EK's 10 daily round trips between London and Dubai.

The India strategy might depend on if 9W emerges from its financial woes...if it does, I could see VS starting BLR with a red-eye to BLR and a late-morning departure back to LHR (to optimize 9W connections) on its metal, while code-sharing on 9W's BOM and DEL flights.

BTW, with shareholding structures within both VS proper and the AF/KL stake DL has in that, DL is effectively the majority owner of VS, owning more than 50 percent.
 
Cunard
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Re: What is VS's strategy in Asia?

Thu Nov 15, 2018 4:42 am

jfk777 wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
skipness1E wrote:
Cos pound for pound the same aircraft will make more money on an additional flight to a Delta hub, this has been discussed ad nauseum.

The issue for VS is they need more partners in Asia. They just cannot dominate any route, so that hurts yeild.

Skyteam needs to work their Asia strategy.


If Virgin needs feed from Skyteam that sound like a case for them to fly to Seoul from London Heathrow in tandem with Korean Air's LHR flights. Virgin does not need another flight to a Delta hub, DL can find an A330 for that mission. Back in 1991 when Virgin first flew from LHR Tokyo was among the first Heathrow routes along with JFK and LAX. IF VA can't make a 787-9 work from LHR to Haneda or NRT they have larger issues, flying another frequency to Atlanta to Detroit is Delta's problem or a just show VA has become "Delta UK", let hope not that would be sad for VA.


With reference to VS at LHR in 1991.

Up until 1991 LHR was declared full to all new airlines but the rules were relaxed in that year so other than the US carriers already operating out of LGW the UK Government at the time allowed the non US carriers to transfer their London operations to LHR.

This took several years for many of the airlines to obtain suitable slots at LHR although VS were very fortunate in gaining several suitable slots so that they could move JFK, LAX and NRT from LGW to LHR, these were the first of VS flights to move to LGW.

LGW to NRT initially started in 1989 after VS obtained the route authority after BCAL had been purchased by BA in the previous year.

VS had intended to move their Tokyo flight from Narita to Haneda and it was to be one of the first destinations for the airlines incoming B789s, they had acquired the slots at Haneda and the airline had made a big deal in their press release at the time regarding this but obviously it never materialised as Tokyo was was cut from the airlines ever decreasing network.
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Cunard
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Re: What is VS's strategy in Asia?

Thu Nov 15, 2018 4:53 am

LondonXtreme wrote:
1. With previously cancellation of NRT and upcoming DXB, VS will only serve HKG, PVG and DEL in Asia. Will these routes sustainable in long term?

2. VS just proposed non stop ULH flight from LHR to PER, I seriously doubt the yields of this route because VS doesn't have enough corporate contracts compare to what BA or QF do. If they are confident about LHR-PER, why not trying some destinations like BKK, SIN, BOM etc? Even resuming NRT or introducing HND service is way more realistic than the route like LHR-PER.


Regarding LHR-PER with VS

I personally would take that with a large pinch of salt, it was SRB gobbing off for attention as usual and his comments obviously got around rather quickly but to be honest I can't see it happening especially as the airlines focus is on the North Atlantic.

I'm personally not a great fan of Virgin Atlantic having only flown them three times I wouldn't say that the flights were anything special and far from memorable, it's not often the case but the last time that I flew with the airline a few years ago from SFO to LHR I was literally looking at my watch all the time counting how much longer the flight was taking, I couldn't wait to get off whereas on other flights I often want the flight to last longer because I don't want to get off.

On a side note though Virgin Cruises starting in 2021 will totally transform the cruise industry and their fleet of four 110,000 tonne cruise ships will be game changers :-)

Check them out online!
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Bongodog1964
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Re: What is VS's strategy in Asia?

Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:58 am

The brutal truth of the effect of looking eastward for VS can be seen with what happened with the SQ stake in VS, purchased for £600m, sold for £224m. Until DL and then AF/KLM came along the strategy of VS was entirely dictated by the whims of Richard Branson, with 51% compared to SQ's 49% he could dictate what happened with other peoples money. Routes were opened that looked good both in the publicity shots at the launch and the glossy pages of the Virgin Holidays brochure, but made little or no commercial sense.
At least the losses are now being minimised with them concentrating on the US market, previously there were years with horrendous losses, not made up by the few years with profits.
With their slot profile and fleet they have a good long term chance linking with DL in the USA, they simply cannot compete Eastwards as they don't have the network to compete for corporate contracts.
 
lhrsfosyd
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Re: What is VS's strategy in Asia?

Thu Nov 15, 2018 11:10 am

They should move their Delhi service to morning departure/arrival I can't see any point codesharing with 9W when the flights are around the same time and are useless for US connections.

No money to be made in Asia so perhaps winter only CPT or summer only TLV? They seem to aim for a bigger market share in South Africa by doubling JNB.
 
8herveg
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Re: What is VS's strategy in Asia?

Thu Nov 15, 2018 11:20 am

SeanM1997 wrote:
Virgin run routes which they have strong codeshare. In the US thats Delta. Delhi is Jet Airways, Shanghai is Air China and Hong Kong is Virgin Australia. They operate Delhi as Jet can't get more slots...working together helps to fill the route and connect onto US flights. Air China can't get slots for a daily Shanghai route, so Virgin operates it. Virgin Australia helps to feed the Hong Kong service from Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane. I don't think Tokyo will launch unless they can get a codeshare partner. Dubai was cut as they had no feed. Maybe we could see Virgin enter Beijing but with Air China operating double daily to London and looking to add a third daily, it's unlikely. Same with Mumbai as Jet as 3x daily flights


Out of interest, why do VS codeshare with Air China on the Shangai route, rather than China Eastern? China Eastern is a much bigger operation at PVG and more flights to connect to, plus China Eastern is part of Skyteam, which VS have a much closer relationship with.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: What is VS's strategy in Asia?

Thu Nov 15, 2018 11:20 am

It simply has none. The focus is on TATL and to maximize the DL partnership and investment. DL itself is reworking Asia.
 
BrianDromey
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Re: What is VS's strategy in Asia?

Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:20 pm

The strategy? Ignore Asia. Not massively different from IAG’s BA. Who have a similarly token Asian presence compared to their North America route map.
 
SeanM1997
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Re: What is VS's strategy in Asia?

Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:10 pm

8herveg wrote:
SeanM1997 wrote:
Virgin run routes which they have strong codeshare. In the US thats Delta. Delhi is Jet Airways, Shanghai is Air China and Hong Kong is Virgin Australia. They operate Delhi as Jet can't get more slots...working together helps to fill the route and connect onto US flights. Air China can't get slots for a daily Shanghai route, so Virgin operates it. Virgin Australia helps to feed the Hong Kong service from Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane. I don't think Tokyo will launch unless they can get a codeshare partner. Dubai was cut as they had no feed. Maybe we could see Virgin enter Beijing but with Air China operating double daily to London and looking to add a third daily, it's unlikely. Same with Mumbai as Jet as 3x daily flights


Out of interest, why do VS codeshare with Air China on the Shangai route, rather than China Eastern? China Eastern is a much bigger operation at PVG and more flights to connect to, plus China Eastern is part of Skyteam, which VS have a much closer relationship with.


They codeshare with Air China as Air China want to operate a London-Shanghai route. Codesharing on this route allows Air China a presence on the lucrative route, and allows connections in Shanghai onto Air China routes, however limited, is still better than no routes
 
ewt340
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Re: What is VS's strategy in Asia?

Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:37 pm

Honestly, around Asia, the Virgin brand isn't as big as it is in UK or Australia. Nobody knows them, between ME3 and British Airways, they haven't got a chance with their current strategy.

They have no flights to SIN, KUL, BKK, SYD, MEL, AKL, YVR, YYZ, ORD, IAH, PEK, CAN, ICN, NRT or HND.
That's just suicide right there. Their destinations is soo limited. They should order more B787-9 and expand to these cities.

The only way they could compete is to lower their ticket prices, especially to Asian destinations while offering direct flights from LGW or LHR. This is the only way to enter Asian market.
 
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chunhimlai
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Re: What is VS's strategy in Asia?

Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:39 pm

Their strategy is no strategy.
Which port can earn more money, they go to that port
 
LHR01
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Re: What is VS's strategy in Asia?

Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:50 pm

How about Pakistan?

Flying to Islamabad, Karachi or Lahore..
 
LHR01
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Re: What is VS's strategy in Asia?

Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:51 pm

How about Pakistan?

Flying to Islamabad, Karachi or Lahore..
 
ewt340
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Re: What is VS's strategy in Asia?

Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:11 pm

LHR01 wrote:
How about Pakistan?

Flying to Islamabad, Karachi or Lahore..


LOL, they don't even fly to SIN, BKK, BOM or PEK. What makes you think they would fly to Pakistan?
 
Cunard
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Re: What is VS's strategy in Asia?

Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:52 am

ewt340 wrote:
LHR01 wrote:
How about Pakistan?

Flying to Islamabad, Karachi or Lahore..


LOL, they don't even fly to SIN, BKK, BOM or PEK. What makes you think they would fly to Pakistan?


Yes but according to LHRO1 the whole world revolves around Pakistan, if you read all of his previous posts your see that he has a habit of suggesting Pakistan on every available occasion.
94 Countries, 327 Destinations Worldwide, 32 Airlines, 29 Aircraft Types, 182 Airports, 335 Flights.
 
Cunard
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Re: What is VS's strategy in Asia?

Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:01 am

chunhimlai wrote:
Their strategy is no strategy.
Which port can earn more money, they go to that port


I think that VS probably does have a strategy not of their own though as it's obviously the strategy of Delta who are calling the shots at the end of the day.

I suggest that when you are making posts you could add a bit more information rather than just short uninformed posts as above although at least they aren't as ridiculous as your pathetic mega hub Airport suggestions!

I don't even understand why you even bother posting on these threads as your street cred here on a.net is ZERO.
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planemanofnz
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Re: What is VS's strategy in Asia?

Fri Nov 16, 2018 5:25 am

What about a seasonal MAN - BKK flight? It's one of the largest unserved routes, based on demand. VS already has a strong holiday/leisure-focused route presence ex-MAN - so MAN - BKK would complement the offering well, no?

Cheers,

C.
 
Boeing74741R
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Re: What is VS's strategy in Asia?

Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:50 am

ewt340 wrote:
Honestly, around Asia, the Virgin brand isn't as big as it is in UK or Australia. Nobody knows them, between ME3 and British Airways, they haven't got a chance with their current strategy.

They have no flights to SIN, KUL, BKK, SYD, MEL, AKL, YVR, YYZ, ORD, IAH, PEK, CAN, ICN, NRT or HND.
That's just suicide right there. Their destinations is soo limited. They should order more B787-9 and expand to these cities.

The only way they could compete is to lower their ticket prices, especially to Asian destinations while offering direct flights from LGW or LHR. This is the only way to enter Asian market.


Where are the slots going to come from for these if flying from LHR/LGW?

VS used to serve SYD, NRT, ORD, YVR and YYZ and were all withdrawn (YYZ was after 9/11, the others more recently). If they were making money and strategically important, they wouldn't have axed those routes. Similarly with the others, if they were lucrative they would have made their move by now. I've mentioned it on here before, but I actually think it would be suicide to operate London-SIN given the plethora of daily flights offered by BA, SQ and QF, most of which are with A380's. As much as I like VS, I can't see how they would be able to effectively compete on the SIN route.

This is before we take into consideration the ME3 and other Asian airlines.
 
richcandy
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Re: What is VS's strategy in Asia?

Fri Nov 16, 2018 9:15 am

planemanofnz wrote:
What about a seasonal MAN - BKK flight? It's one of the largest unserved routes, based on demand. VS already has a strong holiday/leisure-focused route presence ex-MAN - so MAN - BKK would complement the offering well, no?

Cheers,

C.


It's years since I worked in the industry and things might of changed. However 10 years ago no one made money flying economy class passengers from the UK to BKK. EK, EY, QR etc continually had specials and carried a lot of that market.

Alex
 
ZuluTime
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Re: What is VS's strategy in Asia?

Fri Nov 16, 2018 9:18 am

Their strategy is no strategy.
Which port can earn more money, they go to that port


In fairness, making money is a strategy and it's quite a good one. It's when you start doing all sorts of loss-making stuff for "strategic reasons" that you get into real trouble in this game. A strategy which says "we'll fly to Y because we make money but won't fly to X because we don't" is entirely pragmatic.

VS did make money on Tokyo in the early days but I don't think it ever really recovered after SARS, the structural shift in the economy post 2007/08 and then the Haneda vs Narita issues which left VS stranded with nowhere to go.

I understood DXB was heavily supported by Virgin Holidays but didn't really make any money for the airline. Presumably if the holidays side can get a deal with EK then stopping the Dubai route and redeploying the aircraft from a break-even to a profitable route will improve overall performance.
 
slinky09
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Re: What is VS's strategy in Asia?

Fri Nov 16, 2018 9:20 am

I think it can be summed up easily: fly to limited routes with large O&D and good yields, but only when the aircraft utilization fits the roster supporting transatlantic.
 
JamesCousins
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Re: What is VS's strategy in Asia?

Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:16 am

To be totally honest it's clear Asia isn't a focus for VS, the existing route portfolio heading east, while small, helps to cover some key destinations for UK based business travelers with the distinct focus on transatlantic travel. Looking at the fleet make-up they've got 12 A350s replacing 7 A340s and 8 747s, there's currently no room for huge growth. The introduction of the A332 frames will come into their own once the 787s are all back in full service. I can see a top up A350 order at some point, but I doubt it'll be huge, with growth focused on the US & Caribbean
Q400, A320-200, A321-200, 737-500, 737-800, 747-400, 757-200, 787-9 // FCA, TOM, TUI, MON, MT, BA, VS, DL, BE, X9, OLY // Upcoming: EVA 77W, AS A320, VS 787, VS A350
 
ewt340
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Re: What is VS's strategy in Asia?

Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:45 am

Boeing74741R wrote:
ewt340 wrote:
Honestly, around Asia, the Virgin brand isn't as big as it is in UK or Australia. Nobody knows them, between ME3 and British Airways, they haven't got a chance with their current strategy.

They have no flights to SIN, KUL, BKK, SYD, MEL, AKL, YVR, YYZ, ORD, IAH, PEK, CAN, ICN, NRT or HND.
That's just suicide right there. Their destinations is soo limited. They should order more B787-9 and expand to these cities.

The only way they could compete is to lower their ticket prices, especially to Asian destinations while offering direct flights from LGW or LHR. This is the only way to enter Asian market.


Where are the slots going to come from for these if flying from LHR/LGW?

VS used to serve SYD, NRT, ORD, YVR and YYZ and were all withdrawn (YYZ was after 9/11, the others more recently). If they were making money and strategically important, they wouldn't have axed those routes. Similarly with the others, if they were lucrative they would have made their move by now. I've mentioned it on here before, but I actually think it would be suicide to operate London-SIN given the plethora of daily flights offered by BA, SQ and QF, most of which are with A380's. As much as I like VS, I can't see how they would be able to effectively compete on the SIN route.

This is before we take into consideration the ME3 and other Asian airlines.


That's my point though. Their strategy is pull out and refuse to fight. They only getting smaller and smaller to the point where they don't even fly to BKK or NRT?
I could understand the slots restrictions in LHR. But they have a shot at LGW for now.

As for ME3. What Virgin have is direct routing to these cities. They don't need to make stopover in Dubai or Abu Dhabi or Doha. Providing cheaper Non-stop flights from LHR and LGW is a big advantages they had.
 
DobboDobbo
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Re: What is VS's strategy in Asia?

Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:06 am

planemanofnz wrote:
What about a seasonal MAN - BKK flight? It's one of the largest unserved routes, based on demand. VS already has a strong holiday/leisure-focused route presence ex-MAN - so MAN - BKK would complement the offering well, no?

Cheers,

C.


I think there is a market for MAN-BKK, albeit the biggest downside (supposed poor yields) has been well ventalated. I also think TG are a more likely option for MAN-BKK.

From VS’s perspective, I don’t see them flying anywhere from MAN that they don’t already serve from LHR or LGW.

Going east/south this means the only realistic options are DEL and perhaps JNB (despite CPT and BKK being good p2p options).
 
anstar
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Re: What is VS's strategy in Asia?

Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:11 am

planemanofnz wrote:
What about a seasonal MAN - BKK flight? It's one of the largest unserved routes, based on demand. VS already has a strong holiday/leisure-focused route presence ex-MAN - so MAN - BKK would complement the offering well, no?

Cheers,

C.


BKK has high competition via one stops and is low yielding,,... no way you will virgin flying there anytime soon.
 
ewt340
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Re: What is VS's strategy in Asia?

Fri Nov 16, 2018 5:16 pm

anstar wrote:
planemanofnz wrote:
What about a seasonal MAN - BKK flight? It's one of the largest unserved routes, based on demand. VS already has a strong holiday/leisure-focused route presence ex-MAN - so MAN - BKK would complement the offering well, no?

Cheers,

C.


BKK has high competition via one stops and is low yielding,,... no way you will virgin flying there anytime soon.


That's the key though, one stops is a drawback. What VS could offer is direct flights. It would be low yielding, but it would be worth it with B787-9. Just make sure they don't waste any space with useless bar they have on their plane.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: What is VS's strategy in Asia?

Sat Nov 17, 2018 7:06 am

ewt340 wrote:
They have no flights to SIN, KUL, BKK, SYD, MEL, AKL, YVR, YYZ, ORD, IAH, PEK, CAN, ICN, NRT or HND.
That's just suicide right there. Their destinations is soo limited. They should order more B787-9 and expand to these cities.

The only way they could compete is to lower their ticket prices, especially to Asian destinations while offering direct flights from LGW or LHR. This is the only way to enter Asian market.

The two parts of this post make no sense when viewed in tandem.

Why "should" they fly to places where "the only way they could compete is to lower their ticket prices"...?

In essence: by what logic should they devote their comparatively limited assets to flying to those places for $X, if adding yet another 'boring' TATL destination nets them $X+N?
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
deltal1011man
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Re: What is VS's strategy in Asia?

Sat Nov 17, 2018 7:20 am

lightsaber wrote:
skipness1E wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
Virgin should fly to Tokyo again, why they ever left is a puzzle. IF they can fly to Haneda especially. The competition was the same three airlines, one from the UK & two from Japan. Tokyo to Europe is not competitive for the ME3 unlike many other routes to Asia.

Cos pound for pound the same aircraft will make more money on an additional flight to a Delta hub, this has been discussed ad nauseum.

The issue for VS is they need more partners in Asia. They just cannot dominate any route, so that hurts yeild.

Skyteam needs to work their Asia strategy.

Sky needs to add VS to the group first.

They should be able to make PVG/PEK/ICN work if they were actually in Sky. I imagine if they could get a HND slot they would go back to TYO as well.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: What is VS's strategy in Asia?

Sat Nov 17, 2018 7:37 am

SeanM1997 wrote:
Virgin run routes which they have strong codeshare. In the US thats Delta. Delhi is Jet Airways, Shanghai is Air China and Hong Kong is Virgin Australia. They operate Delhi as Jet can't get more slots...working together helps to fill the route and connect onto US flights. Air China can't get slots for a daily Shanghai route, so Virgin operates it. Virgin Australia helps to feed the Hong Kong service from Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane. I don't think Tokyo will launch unless they can get a codeshare partner. Dubai was cut as they had no feed. Maybe we could see Virgin enter Beijing but with Air China operating double daily to London and looking to add a third daily, it's unlikely. Same with Mumbai as Jet as 3x daily flights

If thats the case, then ICN, MEX, GRU, and EZE should work for VS. All of those airports are Sky Team fortresses and DL has a stake/JV with all of those cities largest carriers, although I'm not sure about Aerolineas Argentinas.
When wasn't America great?


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anstar
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Re: What is VS's strategy in Asia?

Sat Nov 17, 2018 10:01 pm

ewt340 wrote:

That's the key though, one stops is a drawback. What VS could offer is direct flights. It would be low yielding, but it would be worth it with B787-9. Just make sure they don't waste any space with useless bar they have on their plane.


Unfortunately though the UK-Thailand market won't want to pay a premium for the non stop. Heck VS couldn't even make CPT work.
 
lhrsfosyd
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Re: What is VS's strategy in Asia?

Sat Nov 17, 2018 11:27 pm

VS will only expand to markets that can feed US network and have healthy premium demand. That limits the options to Africa/Middle East/South Asia. I also doubt Virgin would expand to markets where turnaround exceeds 24hrs.

Tel Aviv seems like a great candidate for both.

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ewt340
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Re: What is VS's strategy in Asia?

Sun Nov 18, 2018 12:37 am

LAX772LR wrote:
ewt340 wrote:
They have no flights to SIN, KUL, BKK, SYD, MEL, AKL, YVR, YYZ, ORD, IAH, PEK, CAN, ICN, NRT or HND.
That's just suicide right there. Their destinations is soo limited. They should order more B787-9 and expand to these cities.

The only way they could compete is to lower their ticket prices, especially to Asian destinations while offering direct flights from LGW or LHR. This is the only way to enter Asian market.

The two parts of this post make no sense when viewed in tandem.

Why "should" they fly to places where "the only way they could compete is to lower their ticket prices"...?

In essence: by what logic should they devote their comparatively limited assets to flying to those places for $X, if adding yet another 'boring' TATL destination nets them $X+N?


Because unlike BA or ME3, they're a small company who only flew to few destinations. Their current strategy is pull out instead of compete. I guess in couple of decades they would only fly to JFK and HKG since they cut off services too much because they don't want to grow.

They should lower the ticket prices in Asian market because most passengers here prefered it. Cheap ticket and direct flights sounds like an strategy they should try.
 
alfa164
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Re: What is VS's strategy in Asia?

Sun Nov 18, 2018 1:01 am

Cunard wrote:
ewt340 wrote:
LHR01 wrote:
How about Pakistan?
Flying to Islamabad, Karachi or Lahore..

LOL, they don't even fly to SIN, BKK, BOM or PEK. What makes you think they would fly to Pakistan?

Yes but according to LHRO1 the whole world revolves around Pakistan, if you read all of his previous posts your see that he has a habit of suggesting Pakistan on every available occasion.


He should get in touch with the Detroit troll who knows the world revolves around DTW; maybe the could arrange for VS to fly nonstop from that midwestern US city to Islamabad, Karachi, and Lahore

;)
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planemanofnz
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Re: What is VS's strategy in Asia?

Sun Nov 18, 2018 1:17 am

Couldn't BKK feed east coast US?

Cheers,

C.
 
Cunard
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Re: What is VS's strategy in Asia?

Sun Nov 18, 2018 2:50 am

alfa164 wrote:
Cunard wrote:
ewt340 wrote:
LOL, they don't even fly to SIN, BKK, BOM or PEK. What makes you think they would fly to Pakistan?

Yes but according to LHRO1 the whole world revolves around Pakistan, if you read all of his previous posts your see that he has a habit of suggesting Pakistan on every available occasion.


He should get in touch with the Detroit troll who knows the world revolves around DTW; maybe the could arrange for VS to fly nonstop from that midwestern US city to Islamabad, Karachi, and Lahore

;)


And we all know exactly who your referring too regarding the DTW Troll, isn't he also a very annoying individual.
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David_itl
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Re: What is VS's strategy in Asia?

Sun Nov 18, 2018 7:45 am

ewt340 wrote:
They should lower the ticket prices in Asian market because most passengers here prefered it. Cheap ticket and direct flights sounds like an strategy they should try.



So you want them to become airline number 3 or 4 into a market, operate smaller aircraft than rivals with a fairly premium configured aircraft and charge low fares. You'll get low fares as introductory offers. But there's no chance that will be sustainable. Flying to Australia/New Zealand will tie-up 2 or 3 aircraft so we can rule that out as more money will be made on routes similar to what they have already. Then you need to bear in mind that if you want to have the all embracing USA-Asia traffic, they won't even contemplate offering these services out of LGW as that base only offers beach destinations. So just the slight problem in trying to secure LHR slots. Sure there are some available but at commercially unattractive times... but they'd want the Asian routes to be conveniently timed to their current operations. Which means forking out large amounts of money to acquire them in the slot trading markets.... which means they need to recoup that money and so reflect it in ticket prices.
 
ewt340
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Re: What is VS's strategy in Asia?

Sun Nov 18, 2018 9:38 am

David_itl wrote:
ewt340 wrote:
They should lower the ticket prices in Asian market because most passengers here prefered it. Cheap ticket and direct flights sounds like an strategy they should try.



So you want them to become airline number 3 or 4 into a market, operate smaller aircraft than rivals with a fairly premium configured aircraft and charge low fares. You'll get low fares as introductory offers. But there's no chance that will be sustainable. Flying to Australia/New Zealand will tie-up 2 or 3 aircraft so we can rule that out as more money will be made on routes similar to what they have already. Then you need to bear in mind that if you want to have the all embracing USA-Asia traffic, they won't even contemplate offering these services out of LGW as that base only offers beach destinations. So just the slight problem in trying to secure LHR slots. Sure there are some available but at commercially unattractive times... but they'd want the Asian routes to be conveniently timed to their current operations. Which means forking out large amounts of money to acquire them in the slot trading markets.... which means they need to recoup that money and so reflect it in ticket prices.


Well cheap tickets always have drawbacks, unattractive timing is usually one of them. I guess try to attract the Chinese like Finnair did.

I also don't think they could do Asia-US east coast traffic.

All I'm saying it, maybe they should established their presence in LGW more.

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