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hiflyeras
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Re: AS Announces long awaited PAE flights on sale now

Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:40 pm

wedgetail737 wrote:
With the AS having a vast majority stake in PAE, it could happen. Even if it was a way to move RON's around with just a Q400, they could benefit with connections.


RON space at SEA is really tight. Last summer planes were even parked overnight on the center runway if I recall...seemed like a safety hazard to me. I could see an aircraft spending the night at PAE and then making an early AM jump to SEA but the problem is that it's not very efficient use of one of your limited 'slots'.
 
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SLCUT2777
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Re: AS Announces long awaited PAE flights on sale now, WN transfers slots to AS

Fri Nov 16, 2018 3:19 pm

My take is WN did this with AS in an underhanded way so that AS will not complain when WN makes a move to get similar exclusive holdings on BFI as they attempted to do back in 2005. "We'll give you PAE for BFI."
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: AS Announces long awaited PAE flights on sale now, WN transfers slots to AS

Fri Nov 16, 2018 3:30 pm

SLCUT2777 wrote:
My take is WN did this with AS in an underhanded way so that AS will not complain when WN makes a move to get similar exclusive holdings on BFI as they attempted to do back in 2005. "We'll give you PAE for BFI."


Five flights at an airport 30 miles away from downtown SEA (or whatever it is) for 80 flights at an airport that's super close to downtown SEA? I personally don't see that. Alaska about flew over the table at WN when they announced intentions to serve BFI before.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
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SANFan
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Re: AS Announces long awaited PAE flights on sale now, WN transfers slots to AS

Fri Nov 16, 2018 3:35 pm

SLCUT2777 wrote:
My take is WN did this with AS in an underhanded way so that AS will not complain when WN makes a move to get similar exclusive holdings on BFI as they attempted to do back in 2005. "We'll give you PAE for BFI."

And AS wouldn't have taken that deal, any more than they would've back in '05...

If there will be air service at BFI, AS will be there!

bb
 
wnflyguy
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Re: AS Announces long awaited PAE flights on sale now, WN transfers slots to AS

Fri Nov 16, 2018 3:38 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
SLCUT2777 wrote:
My take is WN did this with AS in an underhanded way so that AS will not complain when WN makes a move to get similar exclusive holdings on BFI as they attempted to do back in 2005. "We'll give you PAE for BFI."


Five flights at an airport 30 miles away from downtown SEA (or whatever it is) for 80 flights at an airport that's super close to downtown SEA? I personally don't see that. Alaska about flew over the table at WN when they announced intentions to serve BFI before.


During the WN failed attempt to relocate to BFI the airports board of directors agreed to ban any type of future airline operations at BFI. Kenmor Air, UPS and FedEx have a grandfather exemption if they leave they will not be able to return.
BFI will never happen again.

Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
astaz
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Re: AS Announces long awaited PAE flights on sale now

Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:11 pm

wedgetail737 wrote:
G4 had aspirations to fly to PAE. But apparently they are no longer interested.


I’m not sure G4 really ever had interest in PAE. BLI is so successful, and realistically not that far away. You would be canabalizing your loads from the Seattle area out of BLI by opening PAE, and if you moved to PAE instead of BLI, you would be alienating the strong Canadian crowd who would have to drive further to fly G4.
 
iamlucky13
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Re: AS Announces long awaited PAE flights on sale now

Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:35 pm

wedgetail737 wrote:
G4 had aspirations to fly to PAE. But apparently they are no longer interested.


Their general strategy has been to avoid head-to-head competition by serving markets other carriers treated as marginal. My impression always had been that they would abandon Paine Field if serious competition showed up. I want to say they even said as much, but I can't find a quote at the moment.

Alaska did say that if a competitor moved in at Paine Field, they also would serve this airport (source), but otherwise they would not. That was back when traffic at SeaTac was a little over 2/3 what it currently is. Between increasing crowding at SeaTac, and the terminal plans moving forward regardless of Alaska's involvement, serving Paine Field clearly became a lot more compelling.

I've long wondered exactly what the relationship is between the terminal developer, Propeller Investments, and Allegiant Air. It seems the two tend to end up in the news together (especially at Paulding, near Atlanta), and some of Propeller's management came from Allegiant. However, Allegiant is publicly traded and has to disclose material facts about their business, but doesn't disclose a stake in Propeller that I'm aware of.

It just seems there was no reason for Allegiant to continue to invest their resources for as long as they did, pushing for approval of flights at Paine Field, knowing Alaska would respond aggressively.
 
flyoregon
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Re: AS Announces long awaited PAE flights on sale now, WN transfers slots to AS

Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:42 pm

youd think AS would add more connection options out of PDX for the PAE crowd
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: AS Announces long awaited PAE flights on sale now, WN transfers slots to AS

Fri Nov 16, 2018 6:47 pm

flyoregon wrote:
youd think AS would add more connection options out of PDX for the PAE crowd


Perhaps in a future schedule they will. It seemed like there were some last minute things going on.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
alggag
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Re: AS Announces long awaited PAE flights on sale now, WN transfers slots to AS

Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:22 pm

Please don't jump on me for asking but what drew WN to PAE vs. BLI in the first place? I'm just thinking that BLI would have been a better bet as an alternative to Vancouver vs opening a second station to weakly compete in the Seattle metro.
 
32andBelow
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Re: AS Announces long awaited PAE flights on sale now, WN transfers slots to AS

Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:36 pm

Just go connect in PDX instead of flying 5 mins to sea.
 
Rdh3e
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Re: AS Announces long awaited PAE flights on sale now, WN transfers slots to AS

Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:26 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
During the WN failed attempt to relocate to BFI the airports board of directors agreed to ban any type of future airline operations at BFI. Kenmor Air, UPS and FedEx have a grandfather exemption if they leave they will not be able to return.
BFI will never happen again.

Flyguy

If an airport takes FAA dollars they cannot legally ban commercial airline operations.
 
lhpdx
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Re: AS Announces long awaited PAE flights on sale now, WN transfers slots to AS

Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:28 pm

I wonder if AS plans to add more lift out of PDX in the future to support PAE connecting passengers...
 
wnflyguy
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Re: AS Announces long awaited PAE flights on sale now, WN transfers slots to AS

Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:57 pm

alggag wrote:
Please don't jump on me for asking but what drew WN to PAE vs. BLI in the first place? I'm just thinking that BLI would have been a better bet as an alternative to Vancouver vs opening a second station to weakly compete in the Seattle metro.


New unserved Market in a good catchment area.
But AS had some unwanted restricted Ex Virgin America LGA & DCA slots that WN definitely sees more long term value in Vs 5 PAE slots.
I'm gonna guess AS and WN came to an agreement awhile ago but didn't make it public until the Delayed start date and the 2nd FAA review passed.
Speculation and Rumors like it or not also Have WN also getting unused AS gate time in DAL later next year.

BLI sounds like a possibility for WN.
But unless they add it as in some way to help celebrate WN 25 yrs in the PNW In 2019 I wouldn't hold my breath.
WN will most likely add a Washington One ,Idaho One ,Oregon One and Utah One themed aircraft to celebrate the 25 yrs of service.
And possibly PNW-Hawaii flying.
Basically in a long winded response WN will probably Never add BLI.

Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
master14225
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Re: AS Announces long awaited PAE flights on sale now, WN transfers slots to AS

Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:09 pm

PAE will be nice for those in Vancouver wanting cross border travel deals cause BLI doesn't have the selection that BUF and DTW has for those in Ontario while PAE is comparable to the selection at BTV which is not bad for those in Montreal.
 
hiflyeras
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Re: AS Announces long awaited PAE flights on sale now, WN transfers slots to AS

Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:25 pm

WN add PNW-Hawaii? Over AS's body they will. Hawaii-California is going to be interesting but if they attempted that it'd be all out war.
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: AS Announces long awaited PAE flights on sale now, WN transfers slots to AS

Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:46 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
alggag wrote:
Please don't jump on me for asking but what drew WN to PAE vs. BLI in the first place? I'm just thinking that BLI would have been a better bet as an alternative to Vancouver vs opening a second station to weakly compete in the Seattle metro.


New unserved Market in a good catchment area.
But AS had some unwanted restricted Ex Virgin America LGA & DCA slots that WN definitely sees more long term value in Vs 5 PAE slots.
I'm gonna guess AS and WN came to an agreement awhile ago but didn't make it public until the Delayed start date and the 2nd FAA review passed.
Speculation and Rumors like it or not also Have WN also getting unused AS gate time in DAL later next year.

BLI sounds like a possibility for WN.
But unless they add it as in some way to help celebrate WN 25 yrs in the PNW In 2019 I wouldn't hold my breath.
WN will most likely add a Washington One ,Idaho One ,Oregon One and Utah One themed aircraft to celebrate the 25 yrs of service.
And possibly PNW-Hawaii flying.
Basically in a long winded response WN will probably Never add BLI.

Flyguy


So now it’s speculation and rumor? That’s not what you said on the previous page. Honestly, I’m a little frustrated with some of the things you post as facts and rumors that seem to often be a whole lot of nothing. If you are going to say slots were traded etc, then either label it as rumor or the assumption is you are stating facts.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
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RWA380
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Re: AS Announces long awaited PAE flights on sale now, WN transfers slots to AS

Sat Nov 17, 2018 12:33 am

flyoregon wrote:
youd think AS would add more connection options out of PDX for the PAE crowd


IMHO, AS is offering a second Seattle area airport for those frequent flyers near PAE, that go to certain large markets from SEA. It's not to compete with SEA but rather compliment it. For destinations you can't get to via PDX, you do what you've done until now, you drive to SEA & fly out of there. Only the early flight out of PAE to PDX makes any real connections, the later are timed for day business trips.
707 717 720 727-1/2 737-1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9 747-1/2/3/4 757-2/3 767-2/3/4 777-2/3 DC8 DC9 MD80/2/7/8 D10-1/3/4 M11 L10-1/2/5 A300/310/320
AA AC AQ AS BA BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HG HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN WP YS 8M
 
wnflyguy
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Re: AS Announces long awaited PAE flights on sale now, WN transfers slots to AS

Sat Nov 17, 2018 12:42 am

hiflyeras wrote:
WN add PNW-Hawaii? Over AS's body they will. Hawaii-California is going to be interesting but if they attempted that it'd be all out war.


I don't see WN ever doing SEA-Hawaii.
But PDX is another story because the Oregon crowd isn't as loyal to AS as Seattle.
Either way It will be an all out battle on the western side of America the loser going to be Hawaiian.

Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
wedgetail737
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Re: AS Announces long awaited PAE flights on sale now, WN transfers slots to AS

Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:30 am

master14225 wrote:
PAE will be nice for those in Vancouver wanting cross border travel deals cause BLI doesn't have the selection that BUF and DTW has for those in Ontario while PAE is comparable to the selection at BTV which is not bad for those in Montreal.


Yeah...if you're willing to drive 2+ hours, not including the wait at the border.
 
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SLCUT2777
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Re: AS Announces long awaited PAE flights on sale now, WN transfers slots to AS

Sat Nov 17, 2018 2:08 am

wnflyguy wrote:

BFI will never happen again.

Let's hope you're right, since WN would turn BFI into another DAL or MDW very quickly. PAE isn't governed by King County or the Port Authority of Seattle at least.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
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admanager
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Re: AS Announces long awaited PAE flights on sale now, WN transfers slots to AS

Sat Nov 17, 2018 2:28 am

RWA380 wrote:
flyoregon wrote:
youd think AS would add more connection options out of PDX for the PAE crowd


IMHO, AS is offering a second Seattle area airport for those frequent flyers near PAE, that go to certain large markets from SEA. It's not to compete with SEA but rather compliment it. For destinations you can't get to via PDX, you do what you've done until now, you drive to SEA & fly out of there. Only the early flight out of PAE to PDX makes any real connections, the later are timed for day business trips.

Agreed. With a maximum of about 350 seats on 4 flights, the incremental connecting traffic out of PDX can be handled by the current PDX schedule.
 
wnflyguy
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Re: AS Announces long awaited PAE flights on sale now, WN transfers slots to AS

Sat Nov 17, 2018 2:37 am

PlanesNTrains wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
alggag wrote:
Please don't jump on me for asking but what drew WN to PAE vs. BLI in the first place? I'm just thinking that BLI would have been a better bet as an alternative to Vancouver vs opening a second station to weakly compete in the Seattle metro.


New unserved Market in a good catchment area.
But AS had some unwanted restricted Ex Virgin America LGA & DCA slots that WN definitely sees more long term value in Vs 5 PAE slots.
I'm gonna guess AS and WN came to an agreement awhile ago but didn't make it public until the Delayed start date and the 2nd FAA review passed.
Speculation and Rumors like it or not also Have WN also getting unused AS gate time in DAL later next year.

BLI sounds like a possibility for WN.
But unless they add it as in some way to help celebrate WN 25 yrs in the PNW In 2019 I wouldn't hold my breath.
WN will most likely add a Washington One ,Idaho One ,Oregon One and Utah One themed aircraft to celebrate the 25 yrs of service.
And possibly PNW-Hawaii flying.
Basically in a long winded response WN will probably Never add BLI.

Flyguy


So now it’s speculation and rumor? That’s not what you said on the previous page. Honestly, I’m a little frustrated with some of the things you post as facts and rumors that seem to often be a whole lot of nothing. If you are going to say slots were traded etc, then either label it as rumor or the assumption is you are stating facts.


WN not going to PAE and working out a deal with AS caught everyone by surprise.
It's public knowledge that WN,AS and DL currently in a 3 way Law suit over gates at DAL.
The Court has urged the airlines work out a settlement before the next court date.
WN I feel knows it's not going to win on booting DL from DAL.
Seeing the writing on the wall WN knows that AS didn't really want the black sheep restrictive Slots at DCA and LGA.
WN is crafty knowing that AS really didn't want them at PAE dumping potential Revenue gains in a fare war either. So I'm sure WN probably cooked up this deal.
WN an airline built by crafty Lawyers.
So the speculation from sources other than myself that PAE and DAL Gate useage is part of the total package.
But since DAL Gate lawsuit is still pending both AS and WN have since denied allocations that DAL gates are part of the deal.
I believe the next DAL gates Court day in February 2019.
Conveniently the WN next schedule release is also in February 2019.
Is this all Speculation,Rumors,wingnut arm chair guessing or conspiracy theories gone wild.
Probably but like every other thread on A.net let's be honest 99% of us on A.net Don't have a clue anyway.
My posting are like a Frontier flight schedule some things work out somethings don't.

Now my mommy calling me for milk and cookies got to lock the basement.

Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
EvanWSFO
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Re: AS Announces long awaited PAE flights on sale now

Sat Nov 17, 2018 2:37 am

hiflyeras wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
Who else asked to serve the airport and was turned down?


No one...applications to serve PAE were open to all carriers. I think WN realized they didn't have the right equipment for serving PAE and were going to lose their shirt. The speculation about DAL is interesting...time will tell if there was a quid pro quo.


I'd agree. WN has never been terribly strong in the PNW. Those gates at PAE really seemed suited for AS flyer base in the northern burbs that doesn't want to drive to SEA. I would not expect much interest by anyone else to go there, unless DL really wants to start a second pissing contest in the Seattle area. :duck:
I have been on this site 15 years. A unrecoverable email account led me to starting over. Those of you who call me a rookie, you may stop ok?
 
tphuang
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Re: AS Announces long awaited PAE flights on sale now

Sat Nov 17, 2018 2:52 am

EvanWSFO wrote:
hiflyeras wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
Who else asked to serve the airport and was turned down?


No one...applications to serve PAE were open to all carriers. I think WN realized they didn't have the right equipment for serving PAE and were going to lose their shirt. The speculation about DAL is interesting...time will tell if there was a quid pro quo.


I'd agree. WN has never been terribly strong in the PNW. Those gates at PAE really seemed suited for AS flyer base in the northern burbs that doesn't want to drive to SEA. I would not expect much interest by anyone else to go there, unless DL really wants to start a second pissing contest in the Seattle area. :duck:


There simply is no reason WN couldn't have made OAK-PAE work if PAE as a station is viable at all. I'm sure WN got something useful for giving up its right to these flights.
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: AS Announces long awaited PAE flights on sale now, WN transfers slots to AS

Sat Nov 17, 2018 3:42 am

wnflyguy wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:

New unserved Market in a good catchment area.
But AS had some unwanted restricted Ex Virgin America LGA & DCA slots that WN definitely sees more long term value in Vs 5 PAE slots.
I'm gonna guess AS and WN came to an agreement awhile ago but didn't make it public until the Delayed start date and the 2nd FAA review passed.
Speculation and Rumors like it or not also Have WN also getting unused AS gate time in DAL later next year.

BLI sounds like a possibility for WN.
But unless they add it as in some way to help celebrate WN 25 yrs in the PNW In 2019 I wouldn't hold my breath.
WN will most likely add a Washington One ,Idaho One ,Oregon One and Utah One themed aircraft to celebrate the 25 yrs of service.
And possibly PNW-Hawaii flying.
Basically in a long winded response WN will probably Never add BLI.

Flyguy


So now it’s speculation and rumor? That’s not what you said on the previous page. Honestly, I’m a little frustrated with some of the things you post as facts and rumors that seem to often be a whole lot of nothing. If you are going to say slots were traded etc, then either label it as rumor or the assumption is you are stating facts.


WN not going to PAE and working out a deal with AS caught everyone by surprise.
It's public knowledge that WN,AS and DL currently in a 3 way Law suit over gates at DAL.
The Court has urged the airlines work out a settlement before the next court date.
WN I feel knows it's not going to win on booting DL from DAL.
Seeing the writing on the wall WN knows that AS didn't really want the black sheep restrictive Slots at DCA and LGA.
WN is crafty knowing that AS really didn't want them at PAE dumping potential Revenue gains in a fare war either. So I'm sure WN probably cooked up this deal.
WN an airline built by crafty Lawyers.
So the speculation from sources other than myself that PAE and DAL Gate useage is part of the total package.
But since DAL Gate lawsuit is still pending both AS and WN have since denied allocations that DAL gates are part of the deal.
I believe the next DAL gates Court day in February 2019.
Conveniently the WN next schedule release is also in February 2019.
Is this all Speculation,Rumors,wingnut arm chair guessing or conspiracy theories gone wild.
Probably but like every other thread on A.net let's be honest 99% of us on A.net Don't have a clue anyway.
My posting are like a Frontier flight schedule some things work out somethings don't.

Now my mommy calling me for milk and cookies got to lock the basement.

Flyguy


That’s a lot of great analysis and speculation. I don’t deny any of it is possible. However, when you state it as fact, as on page 1, problems start. As far as equating your musings to the Frontier dart board, I agree, and take it as such.

Enjoy your dessert.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
master14225
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Re: AS Announces long awaited PAE flights on sale now, WN transfers slots to AS

Sat Nov 17, 2018 4:23 am

50% of traffic in BUF are from Toronto, explain that being also a 2 hour drive. If that's the case, I am sure people in Vancouver will do the same.

wedgetail737 wrote:
master14225 wrote:
PAE will be nice for those in Vancouver wanting cross border travel deals cause BLI doesn't have the selection that BUF and DTW has for those in Ontario while PAE is comparable to the selection at BTV which is not bad for those in Montreal.


Yeah...if you're willing to drive 2+ hours, not including the wait at the border.
 
wedgetail737
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Re: AS Announces long awaited PAE flights on sale now, WN transfers slots to AS

Sat Nov 17, 2018 5:35 am

master14225 wrote:
50% of traffic in BUF are from Toronto, explain that being also a 2 hour drive. If that's the case, I am sure people in Vancouver will do the same.

wedgetail737 wrote:
master14225 wrote:
PAE will be nice for those in Vancouver wanting cross border travel deals cause BLI doesn't have the selection that BUF and DTW has for those in Ontario while PAE is comparable to the selection at BTV which is not bad for those in Montreal.


Yeah...if you're willing to drive 2+ hours, not including the wait at the border.



PAE isn't exactly RIGHT across the Canadian border. Have you ever driven between YVR and PAE???
 
LAXBUR
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Re: AS Announces long awaited PAE flights on sale now, WN transfers slots to AS

Sat Nov 17, 2018 7:27 am

Alaska hasn't exactly grown at Bellingham which is very close to the border and much more suitable for a Trans-Border airport. So I'm thinking very little of the traffic at this new facility will be Canadian. Plus, YVR-West Coast US flight prices are far from oppressive. I mean an off season weekend flight is under US$200 to LAX from YVR. Peak summer weekend (which is a far out booking and generally priced higher that far out) starts under US$300 to Las Vegas. And since Paine will be exclusively West Coast at the moment, there isn't much value in it for Canadians from what I'm seeing.
 
wnflyguy
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Re: AS Announces long awaited PAE flights on sale now, WN transfers slots to AS

Sat Nov 17, 2018 2:36 pm

LAXBUR wrote:
Alaska hasn't exactly grown at Bellingham which is very close to the border and much more suitable for a Trans-Border airport. So I'm thinking very little of the traffic at this new facility will be Canadian. Plus, YVR-West Coast US flight prices are far from oppressive. I mean an off season weekend flight is under US$200 to LAX from YVR. Peak summer weekend (which is a far out booking and generally priced higher that far out) starts under US$300 to Las Vegas. And since Paine will be exclusively West Coast at the moment, there isn't much value in it for Canadians from what I'm seeing.

I agree I think PAE will be 2 hrs to far for Canadians for cheaper flights.
PAE is already estimated to Run out of Ample parking spaces rather quickly once flights start. BLI has tripled the amount of cheap parking lots to cater to the Vancouver BC overflow.
Let's not forget WestJet has a pretty good lock down on cheaper flights from Vancouver BC.
I'm sure the start up Fare Sale by AS will drawl some willing to make the treak south.
But that will die off rather quickly.
Most of PAE traffic will be from North Seattle area.

I also think WN will eventually regret it's mistake on passing on PAE flights.

Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
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madpropsyo
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Re: AS Announces long awaited PAE flights on sale now, WN transfers slots to AS

Sat Nov 17, 2018 7:19 pm

SLCUT2777 wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:

BFI will never happen again.

Let's hope you're right, since WN would turn BFI into another DAL or MDW very quickly. PAE isn't governed by King County or the Port Authority of Seattle at least.


With what land? There's no way they could do much more than what's happening at PAE, BFI is already bursting at the seams. Not to mention BFI doesn't have any CAT II or III approaches so the reliability would be below that of SEA and PAE.
 
HPRamper
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Re: AS Announces long awaited PAE flights on sale now, WN transfers slots to AS

Sat Nov 17, 2018 7:31 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
SLCUT2777 wrote:
My take is WN did this with AS in an underhanded way so that AS will not complain when WN makes a move to get similar exclusive holdings on BFI as they attempted to do back in 2005. "We'll give you PAE for BFI."


Five flights at an airport 30 miles away from downtown SEA (or whatever it is) for 80 flights at an airport that's super close to downtown SEA? I personally don't see that. Alaska about flew over the table at WN when they announced intentions to serve BFI before.


During the WN failed attempt to relocate to BFI the airports board of directors agreed to ban any type of future airline operations at BFI. Kenmor Air, UPS and FedEx have a grandfather exemption if they leave they will not be able to return.
BFI will never happen again.

Flyguy

FedEx moved to SEA about 20 years ago. DHL moved a couple of years ago. UPS is the only real cargo show at BFI these days.
 
wedgetail737
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Re: AS Announces long awaited PAE flights on sale now, WN transfers slots to AS

Sat Nov 17, 2018 11:55 pm

It wouldn't surprise me one bit if AS brought in some mainline equipment for the peak summer season to places like SFO or LAX. I wonder if an airline like San Juan Airlines, Kenmore's land airline or some other airline with Caravans to fly regionally through PAE someday. Do they have to abide by the max number of flights?
 
durangomac
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Re: AS Announces long awaited PAE flights on sale now, WN transfers slots to AS

Sun Nov 18, 2018 12:13 am

HPRamper wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:

Five flights at an airport 30 miles away from downtown SEA (or whatever it is) for 80 flights at an airport that's super close to downtown SEA? I personally don't see that. Alaska about flew over the table at WN when they announced intentions to serve BFI before.


During the WN failed attempt to relocate to BFI the airports board of directors agreed to ban any type of future airline operations at BFI. Kenmor Air, UPS and FedEx have a grandfather exemption if they leave they will not be able to return.
BFI will never happen again.

Flyguy

FedEx moved to SEA about 20 years ago. DHL moved a couple of years ago. UPS is the only real cargo show at BFI these days.


One of the biggest issues for BFI is that during a northerly flow takeoffs from BFI and SEA merge and right now the biggest constraint at SEA is the number of operations allowed because of noise abatement requirements. I think it's smart to limit operations at one airport that is so close to another if the traffic restrictions are limiting.
 
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smithbs
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Re: AS Announces long awaited PAE flights on sale now, WN transfers slots to AS

Sun Nov 18, 2018 12:29 am

Glad to hear it's finally happening at PAE. I'm scoping a PAE-LAS trip for February or March.

As to the side-bar conversation about flying PAE-SEA, sure it sounds mundane. But then I think of traffic ( :frown: ) and SEA TSA lines ( :eek: ), and maybe I'd give PAE-SEA another glance. But as others have mentioned, maybe PAE-PDX-onward is the better bet, connections permitting.
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: AS Announces long awaited PAE flights on sale now, WN transfers slots to AS

Sun Nov 18, 2018 12:52 am

smithbs wrote:
Glad to hear it's finally happening at PAE. I'm scoping a PAE-LAS trip for February or March.

As to the side-bar conversation about flying PAE-SEA, sure it sounds mundane. But then I think of traffic ( :frown: ) and SEA TSA lines ( :eek: ), and maybe I'd give PAE-SEA another glance. But as others have mentioned, maybe PAE-PDX-onward is the better bet, connections permitting.


Or PAE-SFO-XXX or PAE-SJC-XXX or PAE-LAX-XXX. Not a ton of connections, but then again, not a ton of flights out of PAE to begin with.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
master14225
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Re: AS Announces long awaited PAE flights on sale now, WN transfers slots to AS

Sun Nov 18, 2018 12:55 am

Yes I have back in 2017, I know some who even drive to SEA sometimes and fly out of there.

wedgetail737 wrote:
master14225 wrote:
50% of traffic in BUF are from Toronto, explain that being also a 2 hour drive. If that's the case, I am sure people in Vancouver will do the same.

wedgetail737 wrote:

Yeah...if you're willing to drive 2+ hours, not including the wait at the border.



PAE isn't exactly RIGHT across the Canadian border. Have you ever driven between YVR and PAE???
 
wedgetail737
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Re: AS Announces long awaited PAE flights on sale now, WN transfers slots to AS

Sun Nov 18, 2018 2:47 am

master14225 wrote:
Yes I have back in 2017, I know some who even drive to SEA sometimes and fly out of there.

wedgetail737 wrote:
master14225 wrote:
50% of traffic in BUF are from Toronto, explain that being also a 2 hour drive. If that's the case, I am sure people in Vancouver will do the same.




PAE isn't exactly RIGHT across the Canadian border. Have you ever driven between YVR and PAE???


Fair enough.
 
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gunsontheroof
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Re: AS Announces long awaited PAE flights on sale now, WN transfers slots to AS

Sun Nov 18, 2018 3:29 am

wnflyguy wrote:
Most of PAE traffic will be from North Seattle area.

I also think WN will eventually regret it's mistake on passing on PAE flights.

Flyguy


This. All this talk about trans-border pax to PAE is pretty overblown--Snohomish County is already a large market on its own and I suspet PAE is going to draw a sizeable chunk of passengers from the north end of Seattle as well. It's really not much longer of a commute if you're north of the ship canal and aren't relying on public transit. I'll probably be booking PAE-SJC rather than SEA-SJC for a wedding trip I'm making this coming spring if the fares are right.
Picked a hell of a week to quit sniffing glue.
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: AS Announces long awaited PAE flights on sale now, WN transfers slots to AS

Sun Nov 18, 2018 4:39 am

gunsontheroof wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
Most of PAE traffic will be from North Seattle area.

I also think WN will eventually regret it's mistake on passing on PAE flights.

Flyguy


This. All this talk about trans-border pax to PAE is pretty overblown--Snohomish County is already a large market on its own and I suspet PAE is going to draw a sizeable chunk of passengers from the north end of Seattle as well. It's really not much longer of a commute if you're north of the ship canal and aren't relying on public transit. I'll probably be booking PAE-SJC rather than SEA-SJC for a wedding trip I'm making this coming spring if the fares are right.


Even if you are in the Eastside like Redmond or Kirkland, PAE is probably easier to get to than SEA. I was at SEA last night. There was a huge traffic jam of cars just trying to get to the arrivals level. People were pulling over along the main road because the cell lot was full. SEA can be a total joke of a nightmare at times.

I hope AA could start PAE-DFW and DL could open PAE-SLC to open up even more connection opportunities.
 
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gunsontheroof
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Re: AS Announces long awaited PAE flights on sale now, WN transfers slots to AS

Sun Nov 18, 2018 5:49 am

BoeingGuy wrote:
gunsontheroof wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
Most of PAE traffic will be from North Seattle area.

I also think WN will eventually regret it's mistake on passing on PAE flights.

Flyguy


This. All this talk about trans-border pax to PAE is pretty overblown--Snohomish County is already a large market on its own and I suspet PAE is going to draw a sizeable chunk of passengers from the north end of Seattle as well. It's really not much longer of a commute if you're north of the ship canal and aren't relying on public transit. I'll probably be booking PAE-SJC rather than SEA-SJC for a wedding trip I'm making this coming spring if the fares are right.


Even if you are in the Eastside like Redmond or Kirkland, PAE is probably easier to get to than SEA. I was at SEA last night. There was a huge traffic jam of cars just trying to get to the arrivals level. People were pulling over along the main road because the cell lot was full. SEA can be a total joke of a nightmare at times.

I hope AA could start PAE-DFW and DL could open PAE-SLC to open up even more connection opportunities.


I take the train to SEA whenever I fly and don't have to deal with the traffic, but I do get a good view of what a mess it is going in and out of the airport even at off-hours. Quite a far cry from what it used to be around there not that long ago--I've seen it backed up almost to the I-5/405 interchange on a few occasions now--I can't imagine what a nightmare that is if 518 is actually part of your daily commute. You're correct about Eastsiders and PAE--I spent a brief period of time in college commuting from Redmond to PAE and it's almost always a quicker trip than SEA in moderate traffic. It will be interesting to see how the parking situation plays out there though...given the limited transit options, space available and existing facilities, I could see it getting messy.

PAE-DFW would be an interesting addition for AA, but given their limited presence in the market already, it might be a reach at this point. DL taking a swing at PAE-SLC and maybe one of the California markets wouldn't be terribly surprising if they can find the slots...it actually wouldn't surprise me if AS had DL at PAE in mind when they worked out this slot arrangement with WN, but that's probably something we're never going to know with certainty.
Picked a hell of a week to quit sniffing glue.
 
wedgetail737
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Re: AS Announces long awaited PAE flights on sale now, WN transfers slots to AS

Sun Nov 18, 2018 5:56 am

BoeingGuy wrote:
gunsontheroof wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
Most of PAE traffic will be from North Seattle area.

I also think WN will eventually regret it's mistake on passing on PAE flights.

Flyguy


This. All this talk about trans-border pax to PAE is pretty overblown--Snohomish County is already a large market on its own and I suspet PAE is going to draw a sizeable chunk of passengers from the north end of Seattle as well. It's really not much longer of a commute if you're north of the ship canal and aren't relying on public transit. I'll probably be booking PAE-SJC rather than SEA-SJC for a wedding trip I'm making this coming spring if the fares are right.


Even if you are in the Eastside like Redmond or Kirkland, PAE is probably easier to get to than SEA. I was at SEA last night. There was a huge traffic jam of cars just trying to get to the arrivals level. People were pulling over along the main road because the cell lot was full. SEA can be a total joke of a nightmare at times.

I hope AA could start PAE-DFW and DL could open PAE-SLC to open up even more connection opportunities.


Additional service won't be allowed until another FAA Environmental study is performed and some airline would have to pay for it. I doubt you'll see too many additional services (if anything at all) in the near-future. But you might see some flights go to mainline this summer (possibly).

As far north and east sound communities, PAE will be very attractive to Kirkland (as you said) north to Bothell, Kenmore, Lynwood, Woodinville.
 
BA
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Re: AS Announces long awaited PAE flights on sale now, WN transfers slots to AS

Sun Nov 18, 2018 7:24 am

I don't think PAE will see more than the 24 flights per day in the near future. There's only so many flights you can squeeze out of a two-gate terminal, and as wedgetail737 mentions, there would have to be another FAA environmental study before additional flights would be approved.

I see any expansion in the near term occurring in the form of upgauging.

I definitely expect AS to upgauge several flights to 737s pretty quickly and possibly UA as well.

Speaking of United, I wonder when they'll announce their start date(s) and start selling tickets.

Here's a very nice article today from ThePointsGuy about the new terminal:
https://thepointsguy.com/news/inside-pa ... -terminal/

Less than two months after Alaska's inaugural, the terminal will be served via the new Swift Green Line, Snohomish County's second Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) line running every 10 minutes on week days and every 20 minutes on weekends and nights. The stop will be off Airport Road and a less than 10 minute walk to the terminal.

https://www.communitytransit.org/swiftgreen

I think this will be quite a popular transit option, especially with the cheapest parking option being $20 per day versus $2.50 per ride on the Swift Green Line.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
MartijnNL
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Re: AS Announces long awaited PAE flights on sale now, WN transfers slots to AS

Sun Nov 18, 2018 8:21 am

BA wrote:
Here's a very nice article today from ThePointsGuy about the new terminal:
https://thepointsguy.com/news/inside-pa ... -terminal/

Trump won't be happy! Glass imported from Germany, an acoustic ceiling from Switzerland and countertops with marble sourced from Italy.

Personally I am thrilled with "the decision to use jet bridges with windows, in favor of their design as well as being less stressful and confining to wait in when boarding the aircraft - even though they cost more." More American airports should adopt this.

Having visited the Boeing factory last year, it was on my wish list for many years, I'm pretty sure I won't be using this airport in the near future. I can imagine aviation enthusiasts using it for a day trip to Boeing. No better way to start your visit than to arrive on an aircraft.
 
iamlucky13
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Re: AS Announces long awaited PAE flights on sale now, WN transfers slots to AS

Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:56 am

wnflyguy wrote:
PAE is already estimated to Run out of Ample parking spaces rather quickly once flights start. BLI has tripled the amount of cheap parking lots to cater to the Vancouver BC overflow.


I'm not sure parking will be an issue for PAE in the near term. I don't know how BLI compares, but PAE will have several time as much parking per available seat as SEA.
 
Rdh3e
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Re: AS Announces long awaited PAE flights on sale now, WN transfers slots to AS

Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:02 am

BA wrote:
I definitely expect AS to upgauge several flights to 737s pretty quickly and possibly UA as well.

Care to elaborate on your rationale?
 
wedgetail737
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Re: AS Announces long awaited PAE flights on sale now, WN transfers slots to AS

Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:54 am

Rdh3e wrote:
BA wrote:
I definitely expect AS to upgauge several flights to 737s pretty quickly and possibly UA as well.

Care to elaborate on your rationale?


Well...since the number of flights are maxed out at PAE and it would take another FAA study (mo' money) to add flights. But if the loads show significant progress, I think PAE could see some mainline, especially during the peak summer season up here.
 
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gunsontheroof
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Re: AS Announces long awaited PAE flights on sale now, WN transfers slots to AS

Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:58 am

Rdh3e wrote:
BA wrote:
I definitely expect AS to upgauge several flights to 737s pretty quickly and possibly UA as well.

Care to elaborate on your rationale?


PAE is going to be very popular with it's current slot arrangement. There are plenty of folks in its catchment area who will pay the difference for a PAE fare vs one from SEA to not deal with traffic through Seattle/Bellevue. AS and UA are rightfully testing the waters with the initial deployment of E175s, but I'm not going to be anywhere close to shocked if SFO, LAX, DEN and SAN see B737/A320 deployments from both carriers by next summer--other routes might as well. PAE isn't exactly out in the boonies--at least one third (probably more) of SEA's catchment population is as close to PAE as it is to SEA and PAE will serve 4/5 of the most popular routes from SEA at this point. The opening of service has generated a lot of buzz locally--it's not just av nerds that are paying attention and getting excited about an alternative to SEA for travel.
Picked a hell of a week to quit sniffing glue.
 
wedgetail737
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Re: AS Announces long awaited PAE flights on sale now, WN transfers slots to AS

Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:34 am

gunsontheroof wrote:
Rdh3e wrote:
BA wrote:
I definitely expect AS to upgauge several flights to 737s pretty quickly and possibly UA as well.

Care to elaborate on your rationale?


PAE is going to be very popular with it's current slot arrangement. There are plenty of folks in its catchment area who will pay the difference for a PAE fare vs one from SEA to not deal with traffic through Seattle/Bellevue. AS and UA are rightfully testing the waters with the initial deployment of E175s, but I'm not going to be anywhere close to shocked if SFO, LAX, DEN and SAN see B737/A320 deployments from both carriers by next summer--other routes might as well. PAE isn't exactly out in the boonies--at least one third (probably more) of SEA's catchment population is as close to PAE as it is to SEA and PAE will serve 4/5 of the most popular routes from SEA at this point. The opening of service has generated a lot of buzz locally--it's not just av nerds that are paying attention and getting excited about an alternative to SEA for travel.


For both business and pleasure. I think these flights will book quickly. Again, I'm hoping the likes of San Juan Airlines or Kenmore's land airline will consider PAE now that there will be connection opportunities to regional communities.
 
crescent
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Re: AS Announces long awaited PAE flights on sale now, WN transfers slots to AS

Mon Nov 19, 2018 2:06 pm

I had forgotten that when WN announced CVG back in 2017 they had told analysts it would "very likely" be the last dot on their destination map in the Lower 48. Now recalling that, I have to think asking for some flights from PAE was mostly a leverage point to get AS to give up some DAL slots.

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