The international flights from SFO is booming significantly now. But the terminal itself is outdated and need to be remodelled. Especially, the gates are extremely restricted during the peak hours. With new T1 is under construction now and will probably handle some international flights in future. However, the G-area is overcrowded and some flights operated by Star Alliance has moved to A-area which contradict UA's proposal of "under one roof".

With a couple of my recent experience this year. It always happens that the wide body plane has to be grounded for 20-30 minutes after landing in order to wait for the gate release(I guess all the gates were fully occupied at that time). I think both G-area and A-area need some additional gates to accommodate the future growth for UA and the upcoming new carriers.

SFO’s ADP has plans(already somewhat moving) for a new extension off the G concourse dubbed “H” concourse, conversion of some F gates into swing gates(of which AC will take a few which will greatly help reduce G’s crowding), redevelopment of the main hall so the two sides are connected, and redevelopment of the CBP area for better flow.

hayzel777 wrote:

redevelopment of the main hall so the two sides are connected

Interesting, when do they expect to have this completed by?

LondonXtreme wrote:

But the terminal itself is outdated and need to be remodelled.

How so? I appreciate that it's crowded, but it's less than 20 years old and does not IMO feel particularly dated from an *architectural* standpoint.

SurlyBonds wrote:

LondonXtreme wrote:

But the terminal itself is outdated and need to be remodelled.

How so? I appreciate that it's crowded, but it's less than 20 years old and does not IMO feel particularly dated from an *architectural* standpoint.

The terminal isn't at all outdated but does need to be expanded and reconfigured given the vastly different security apparatus in place since 9/11. It beats the hell out of a lot of "international" terminals at major airports in this country and will improve between now and 2025 or so when the modifications are done.

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LondonXtreme wrote:

The international flights from SFO is booming significantly now. But the terminal itself is outdated and need to be remodelled. Especially, the gates are extremely restricted during the peak hours. With new T1 is under construction now and will probably handle some international flights in future. However, the G-area is overcrowded and some flights operated by Star Alliance has moved to A-area which contradict UA's proposal of "under one roof".

With a couple of my recent experience this year. It always happens that the wide body plane has to be grounded for 20-30 minutes after landing in order to wait for the gate release(I guess all the gates were fully occupied at that time). I think both G-area and A-area need some additional gates to accommodate the future growth for UA and the upcoming new carriers.

Outdated? Not really, but SFO could really use additional gates. The G concourse is one of the few feasible ideas to add more gates

I mean the Int'l terminal has limited spaces for retail and lounge, the shops and restaurants are pathetic in terms of quality of quantity. No more rooms for lounge expansion, when I visit some lounges like JAL, AF/KLM and feel the space is limited. Compare to recently refurbished LAX TBIT, I think SFO has way to improve.

LondonXtreme wrote:

I mean the Int'l terminal has limited spaces for retail and lounge, the shops and restaurants are pathetic in terms of quality of quantity.

Emporio Rulli is pathetic? What would meet your standards, a branch of the French Laundry?

(I agree the choice has gotten a little worse over the past year or so. There used to be an excellent sushi restaurant, Ebisu, which mysteriously closed in favor of something much worse, and the Chinese place right next to it is a bit too fast-foody. But that is mostly a question of retailing, not the facilities themselves.)

SurlyBonds wrote:

LondonXtreme wrote:

I mean the Int'l terminal has limited spaces for retail and lounge, the shops and restaurants are pathetic in terms of quality of quantity.

Emporio Rulli is pathetic? What would meet your standards, a branch of the French Laundry?

(I agree the choice has gotten a little worse over the past year or so. There used to be an excellent sushi restaurant, Ebisu, which mysteriously closed in favor of something much worse, and the Chinese place right next to it is a bit too fast-foody. But that is mostly a question of retailing, not the facilities themselves.)

I agree,I still remember the food courts on each side at departure lobby pre securities used to have more variety of choices. The SFO Int'l terminal is split into two sides and doesn't have a centralised area for retails, so people can free move between A and G.

because of the lack of public access to the International terminal? I'm not at all sure they could put more restaurants there. Not even the Employees eat there.

LondonXtreme wrote:

SurlyBonds wrote:

LondonXtreme wrote:

I mean the Int'l terminal has limited spaces for retail and lounge, the shops and restaurants are pathetic in terms of quality of quantity.

Emporio Rulli is pathetic? What would meet your standards, a branch of the French Laundry?

(I agree the choice has gotten a little worse over the past year or so. There used to be an excellent sushi restaurant, Ebisu, which mysteriously closed in favor of something much worse, and the Chinese place right next to it is a bit too fast-foody. But that is mostly a question of retailing, not the facilities themselves.)

I agree,I still remember the food courts on each side at departure lobby pre securities used to have more variety of choices. The SFO Int'l terminal is split into two sides and doesn't have a centralised area for retails, so people can free move between A and G.

You can also walk over to T3 if you want. E, F & G are connected post security. E & F do have a lot more food and shopping options than G does. I agree with you though G and T3 are bursting at the seams. H, renovation of F and the swing gates can’t come fast enough.

Getting to a consolidated checkpoint will definitely help. I'm not sure the exact plans, but above a consolidated checkpoint they could always do the sterile connector with additional retail/restaurants/lounges.

LondonXtreme wrote:

However, the G-area is overcrowded and some flights operated by Star Alliance has moved to A-area which contradict UA's proposal of "under one roof".

Besides for AV and some CM flights, I think all *A flights are in G, which is actually better than it used to be. You can probably exit G and get back into A faster at SFO than T8 to TBIT in LAX which is connected within security across 3 bridges and 2 tunnels.

ericm2031 wrote:

Getting to a consolidated checkpoint will definitely help. I'm not sure the exact plans, but above a consolidated checkpoint they could always do the sterile connector with additional retail/restaurants/lounges.

LondonXtreme wrote:

However, the G-area is overcrowded and some flights operated by Star Alliance has moved to A-area which contradict UA's proposal of "under one roof".

Besides for AV and some CM flights, I think all *A flights are in G, which is actually better than it used to be. You can probably exit G and get back into A faster at SFO than T8 to TBIT in LAX which is connected within security across 3 bridges and 2 tunnels.

OZ and BR7 departs in A, I saw NZ was in A when I was in SFO last weekend and then taxed to remote area(maybe depart in G). Also, I saw a UA plane parked in A(don't know which flight)

I agree that there is a major need for post-security food options in the G-gates area. I just want something I can pack and take on my flight instead of having to eat a UA economy meal. The only good option is Napa Farms Market, which isn't bad, but it is getting old now.

It's hard to believe that when the International Terminal was completed in 2000, it was the biggest in the US with 24 gates, and nobody could even imagine it could reach capacity. Now, it's severely overcrowded between 10 AM-2 PM, and many terminals around the world (and even in the US) have surpassed it in user friendliness and amenities.

I remember passing through for the first time in 2006 and noticing how great it was for a US airport. However, the terminal has changed little in those years, with the already limited food options get worse and more expensive every year. While the check in hall is architecturally impressive, I find the airside corridors extremely dull, simply a concrete box with tinted windows. LAX's TBIT puts it to shame with all the interactive displays, floor to ceiling windows, luxury shopping, and plentiful food options.

Since 2014, SFO seems to have gotten at least 3 new airlines and 2 new UA international routes every year. Boarding Area H can't come fast enough to relieve the G side congestion. Meanwhile, relief for the A side is in sight when JetBlue, Sun Country, Hawaiian, and international narrobodies move into Terminal 1.

As far as international terminal improvements, I'd like to see a centralized security area between the 2 food courts to provide access to both boarding areas. A new extension past security can be built into something like the TBIT Great Hall, with a food court, interactive displays, and luxury shopping. Finally, when the passengers enter the concourse, take down all of the duty free, name brand boutiques, and Pacific News type stores (relocated to the Great Hall) to improve passenger flow and large floor to ceiling windows so all gates get great views of the planes, not just 6-7. Yep, I'm still dreaming...

I flew out of the international terminal earlier this month to SYD on QF. The terminal did not feel particularly dated, but it is far from nice. The security lanes are crowded and cramped, the gate areas are so large it is often tough to hear announcements when flights are departing adjacent to each other, and the whole experience just isn't all that pleasant. I would agree with others that the TBIT is much nicer (at LAX). The lounges at SFO that I used were just OK. The AF/KL lounge is way outdated and shows all the hallmarks of what it once was, a Northwest WorldClub. The Cathay lounge is s little nicer, but not very spacious.

is some land reclamation method possible for SFO expansion?

theasianguy wrote:

It's hard to believe that when the International Terminal was completed in 2000, it was the biggest in the US with 24 gates, and nobody could even imagine it could reach capacity. Now, it's severely overcrowded between 10 AM-2 PM, and many terminals around the world (and even in the US) have surpassed it in user friendliness and amenities.

I remember passing through for the first time in 2006 and noticing how great it was for a US airport. However, the terminal has changed little in those years, with the already limited food options get worse and more expensive every year. While the check in hall is architecturally impressive, I find the airside corridors extremely dull, simply a concrete box with tinted windows. LAX's TBIT puts it to shame with all the interactive displays, floor to ceiling windows, luxury shopping, and plentiful food options.

Since 2014, SFO seems to have gotten at least 3 new airlines and 2 new UA international routes every year. Boarding Area H can't come fast enough to relieve the G side congestion. Meanwhile, relief for the A side is in sight when JetBlue, Sun Country, Hawaiian, and international narrobodies move into Terminal 1.

As far as international terminal improvements, I'd like to see a centralized security area between the 2 food courts to provide access to both boarding areas. A new extension past security can be built into something like the TBIT Great Hall, with a food court, interactive displays, and luxury shopping. Finally, when the passengers enter the concourse, take down all of the duty free, name brand boutiques, and Pacific News type stores (relocated to the Great Hall) to improve passenger flow and large floor to ceiling windows so all gates get great views of the planes, not just 6-7. Yep, I'm still dreaming...

Is it really possible to connect the two sides? Aren't the escalators and foot path of travel to/from the Bart station in the way of building a combined area?

anshabhi wrote:

is some land reclamation method possible for SFO expansion?

No.

gwrudolph wrote:

theasianguy wrote:

It's hard to believe that when the International Terminal was completed in 2000, it was the biggest in the US with 24 gates, and nobody could even imagine it could reach capacity. Now, it's severely overcrowded between 10 AM-2 PM, and many terminals around the world (and even in the US) have surpassed it in user friendliness and amenities.

I remember passing through for the first time in 2006 and noticing how great it was for a US airport. However, the terminal has changed little in those years, with the already limited food options get worse and more expensive every year. While the check in hall is architecturally impressive, I find the airside corridors extremely dull, simply a concrete box with tinted windows. LAX's TBIT puts it to shame with all the interactive displays, floor to ceiling windows, luxury shopping, and plentiful food options.

Since 2014, SFO seems to have gotten at least 3 new airlines and 2 new UA international routes every year. Boarding Area H can't come fast enough to relieve the G side congestion. Meanwhile, relief for the A side is in sight when JetBlue, Sun Country, Hawaiian, and international narrobodies move into Terminal 1.

As far as international terminal improvements, I'd like to see a centralized security area between the 2 food courts to provide access to both boarding areas. A new extension past security can be built into something like the TBIT Great Hall, with a food court, interactive displays, and luxury shopping. Finally, when the passengers enter the concourse, take down all of the duty free, name brand boutiques, and Pacific News type stores (relocated to the Great Hall) to improve passenger flow and large floor to ceiling windows so all gates get great views of the planes, not just 6-7. Yep, I'm still dreaming...

Is it really possible to connect the two sides? Aren't the escalators and foot path of travel to/from the Bart station in the way of building a combined area?

From: http://media.flysfo.com.s3.amazonaws.co ... _Final.pdf

See Page 6 - 5 of the pdf.

B/As (Boarding Areas) A & G would be connected in Phases 1 and 2--apparently by expanding the area at the rear of the Main Hall of the Departures Level and connecting the two sides--possibly on more than one level of the building.

"ITB (International Terminal Building) Departures Level Improvements – Phase 1: These improvements would
provide international gate assignment flexibility, additional security screening
checkpoint capacity, and expanded concessions areas. This project includes the
following improvements on the Departures Level in the Main Hall:
1. Relocation of the two security checkpoints to a single facility in the center of
the Main Hall, leading to an internal secure corridor connecting B/A A and G
2. Reconfiguration of the ticketing/check-in areas to accommodate modern
ticketing/check-in processes and facilitate passenger flow to the central
security checkpoint
3. Expansion of concessions in the areas currently used for security screening
checkpoints"
--------------
"ITB Departures Level Improvements – Phase 2: This project, shown in Exhibit
6.3-3, would expand the ITB on the Departures Level in the area immediately
beyond the new centralized security checkpoint. These improvements would
provide additional commercial areas to create a world-class shopping and dining
experience for departing passengers. The building expansion would extend to
the Arrivals Level to accommodate displaced U.S. Customs and Border Protection
(CBP) administrative offices, provide additional area for support space, or create
a security checkpoint designated for connecting passengers.

If you look carefully at Exhibit 6.3.3 and enlarge it on your screen you can see that they have completely changed the arrangement of the Main Hall. There is a wide area in the center that is the security screening checkpoint and leads to a wide corridor with shops and restaurants that connects Boarding Areas A and G. The check in counters have been rearranged so that they are not all lined up in the center of the Main Hall, but rather distributed around the periphery as well.

Envrironmentalists have long screamed to stop a building of more land into San Francisco Bay to widen the distance between 28L and 28R to allow SFO to land more aircraft per hour.

" In 1849, as California’s Gold Rush was beginning, the Bay was 787 square miles in size. Today it is approximately 550 square miles. "

http://www.bcdc.ca.gov/history.html

In the '60s people became alarmed that the bay was 30% smaller than it was 100 years earlier. The general population, not just "environmentalists" agreed--and still do.

That's why it is difficult to get any projects that require bayfill done today.

Expanding the runways into the bay does make sense though so perhaps it will happen--but don't hold your breath.

reality wrote:

" In 1849, as California’s Gold Rush was beginning, the Bay was 787 square miles in size. Today it is approximately 550 square miles. "

http://www.bcdc.ca.gov/history.html

In the '60s people became alarmed that the bay was 30% smaller than it was 100 years earlier. The general population, not just "environmentalists" agreed--and still do.

That's why it is difficult to get any projects that require bayfill done today.

Expanding the runways into the bay does make sense though so perhaps it will happen--but don't hold your breath.

Life is so much like pendulum it swings to far one way to then go too far the other way.

From SFO's site:

https://www.flysfo.com/about-sfo/sfo-to ... r-terminal

reality wrote:

gwrudolph wrote:

theasianguy wrote:

It's hard to believe that when the International Terminal was completed in 2000, it was the biggest in the US with 24 gates, and nobody could even imagine it could reach capacity. Now, it's severely overcrowded between 10 AM-2 PM, and many terminals around the world (and even in the US) have surpassed it in user friendliness and amenities.

I remember passing through for the first time in 2006 and noticing how great it was for a US airport. However, the terminal has changed little in those years, with the already limited food options get worse and more expensive every year. While the check in hall is architecturally impressive, I find the airside corridors extremely dull, simply a concrete box with tinted windows. LAX's TBIT puts it to shame with all the interactive displays, floor to ceiling windows, luxury shopping, and plentiful food options.

Since 2014, SFO seems to have gotten at least 3 new airlines and 2 new UA international routes every year. Boarding Area H can't come fast enough to relieve the G side congestion. Meanwhile, relief for the A side is in sight when JetBlue, Sun Country, Hawaiian, and international narrobodies move into Terminal 1.

As far as international terminal improvements, I'd like to see a centralized security area between the 2 food courts to provide access to both boarding areas. A new extension past security can be built into something like the TBIT Great Hall, with a food court, interactive displays, and luxury shopping. Finally, when the passengers enter the concourse, take down all of the duty free, name brand boutiques, and Pacific News type stores (relocated to the Great Hall) to improve passenger flow and large floor to ceiling windows so all gates get great views of the planes, not just 6-7. Yep, I'm still dreaming...

Is it really possible to connect the two sides? Aren't the escalators and foot path of travel to/from the Bart station in the way of building a combined area?

From: http://media.flysfo.com.s3.amazonaws.co ... _Final.pdf

See Page 6 - 5 of the pdf.

B/As (Boarding Areas) A & G would be connected in Phases 1 and 2--apparently by expanding the area at the rear of the Main Hall of the Departures Level and connecting the two sides--possibly on more than one level of the building.

"ITB (International Terminal Building) Departures Level Improvements – Phase 1: These improvements would
provide international gate assignment flexibility, additional security screening
checkpoint capacity, and expanded concessions areas. This project includes the
following improvements on the Departures Level in the Main Hall:
1. Relocation of the two security checkpoints to a single facility in the center of
the Main Hall, leading to an internal secure corridor connecting B/A A and G
2. Reconfiguration of the ticketing/check-in areas to accommodate modern
ticketing/check-in processes and facilitate passenger flow to the central
security checkpoint
3. Expansion of concessions in the areas currently used for security screening
checkpoints"
--------------
"ITB Departures Level Improvements – Phase 2: This project, shown in Exhibit
6.3-3, would expand the ITB on the Departures Level in the area immediately
beyond the new centralized security checkpoint. These improvements would
provide additional commercial areas to create a world-class shopping and dining
experience for departing passengers. The building expansion would extend to
the Arrivals Level to accommodate displaced U.S. Customs and Border Protection
(CBP) administrative offices, provide additional area for support space, or create
a security checkpoint designated for connecting passengers.

If you look carefully at Exhibit 6.3.3 and enlarge it on your screen you can see that they have completely changed the arrangement of the Main Hall. There is a wide area in the center that is the security screening checkpoint and leads to a wide corridor with shops and restaurants that connects Boarding Areas A and G. The check in counters have been rearranged so that they are not all lined up in the center of the Main Hall, but rather distributed around the periphery as well.

Thanks for the great reference material and detailed explanations. All makes sense to me except for one thing. Isn't it true that the foot path through the International Terminal to the BART station (say if you are coming from UA domestic outside of security) runs between the main hall and the G side on the departures level? So if they put in a combined security checkpoint in the back of the main hall departures level that connects to both the A and G sides, wouldn't that path of travel to the BART station be interrupted? Sorry if I'm being dense here--I'm truly trying to understand.

Yes...you are absolutely right. There is a walkway from the UA Domestic Terminal 3 that goes thru the International Terminal and then on to the BART station. That pathway would be blocked on the Departures Level if Boarding Areas A and G are connected. So there must be other ways for people to get through. They will have to build something higher up on the mezzanine level, or something lower, beneath the Departures Level, that connects BART with the rest of the airport and which also allows people coming from Terminal 3 to enter the International Terminal. The same kind of walkway exists on the other side that connects Terminal 1 with the International Terminal. I'm not sure how they're going to do this, but they must have a plan. There might already be a walkway there--midway between the Departures Level and the Arrivals Level. I don't remember.

reality wrote:

Yes...you are absolutely right. There is a walkway from the UA Domestic Terminal 3 that goes thru the International Terminal and then on to the BART station. That pathway would be blocked on the Departures Level if Boarding Areas A and G are connected. So there must be other ways for people to get through. They will have to build something higher up on the mezzanine level, or something lower, beneath the Departures Level, that connects BART with the rest of the airport and which also allows people coming from Terminal 3 to enter the International Terminal. The same kind of walkway exists on the other side that connects Terminal 1 with the International Terminal. I'm not sure how they're going to do this, but they must have a plan. There might already be a walkway there--midway between the Departures Level and the Arrivals Level. I don't remember.

Inter-terminal landside transport can be conducted utilizing the AirTrain. I don't think walkways are a priority