Zidane
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Likely BA Heathrow route additions from Gatwick

Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:29 am

I had a short chat concerning this topic and was left wondering which routes, if any, in BA's Gatwick network are viable enough to switch to Heathrow.
I've learned so far that BGI and UVF enjoy First Class. A switch could save BA from stationing a Premium frame at Gatwick.


Looking forward to everyone's expertise.
 
jfk777
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Re: Likely BA Heathrow route additions from Gatwick

Thu Nov 22, 2018 1:52 am

Heathrow is all about how many slots BA's and what routes are more important. People pay to fly First Class to Barbados and are willing do it from LGW, so why switch to LHR ? Leisure routes to Florida and the Caribbean are O & D routes so flying them from Gatwick makes sense since those 777 have only 32 Club World seats and expanded Y plus seats with 10 seats per row in economy. These are what Virgin calls the "beach fleet", so BA has its own identical routes with a separate fleet for the "beach" routes from Gatwick. BGI is unique in supporting First Class in that region.
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: Likely BA Heathrow route additions from Gatwick

Thu Nov 22, 2018 2:03 am

If I am up on my current BA strategy of LHR v LGW, it is that less premium-yielding destinations such as Orlando use LGW, and the higher premium-paying flights use LHR. LHR is slot restricted and as such slots command a pretty penny, so the pound-counters are always analyzing yields and determining the viability of switching a route from LGW to LHR. I would imagine as well that at different times of the year flights might switch back and forth between airports, depending on demand.

But whatever BA decides, I'd bet they are always going to have Premium Service at Gatwick in some fashion.
 
Zidane
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Re: Likely BA Heathrow route additions from Gatwick

Thu Nov 22, 2018 2:58 am

Thanks guys. :bigthumbsup:
 
shamrock321
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Re: Likely BA Heathrow route additions from Gatwick

Thu Nov 22, 2018 7:24 am

It wouldnt at all surprise me to see a LAS or BGI flight move to LHR, I 8magine they would do exceptionally well with the added benefit of the LHR short haul network but as mentioned slots are an issue. LAS operates from both LHR and LGW proving BA isn’t against doing it or operatin gleisure routes from LHR.

Next summer BIO moves from LHR to LGW and VLC goes in the opposite direction.
 
upperdeckfan
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Re: Likely BA Heathrow route additions from Gatwick

Thu Nov 22, 2018 7:59 am

shamrock321 wrote:
Next summer BIO moves from LHR to LGW and VLC goes in the opposite direction.


I don't really understand the driver of these moves, timing of VLC-LHR-VLC provides very limited connectivity into BA long haul network, if meant for O/D LGW should be OK.

BA408 LHR0745 - 1110VLC 320D
BA409 VLC1200 - 1335LHR 320D

OW seems to overlook VLC as a profitable station while Star and Sky have been increasing service over the last few years.

Many FF's based at Valencia - including myself - have switched from OW to Star as LH and LX have multiple daily flights with very convenient connectivity out of FRA, MUC and ZRH.

Sky has also grown out of VLC through UX and KL.
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bhxdtw
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Re: Likely BA Heathrow route additions from Gatwick

Thu Nov 22, 2018 8:17 am

I'm not going to derail this topic but I would just like to ask if this is the way that AF runs its fleets out of CDG and ORY also.
 
upperdeckfan
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Re: Likely BA Heathrow route additions from Gatwick

Thu Nov 22, 2018 8:31 am

Well, the AF equivalent of BA's "beach fleet" is based in ORY but it's much higher density and it doesn't serve true beach destinations but France former territories in the Caribean and Indian Ocean.

Main difference would be that ORY's location is more convenient than CDG for Paris bound pax, therefore AF and their partners run a CDG/ORY mix to most of European major cities. CDG to feed AF network and ORY for O/D.
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LTU932
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Re: Likely BA Heathrow route additions from Gatwick

Thu Nov 22, 2018 8:33 am

I'm praying for the day SJO gets moved from LGW to LHR. That said, it's more likely that a hypothetical BA flight to PTY will end up being from LHR.
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Arion640
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Re: Likely BA Heathrow route additions from Gatwick

Thu Nov 22, 2018 8:33 am

Not sure if there’s an real benefit of moving BGI to LHR to be honest.

Unless they are planning to bring back the Concorde service.
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CrawleyBen
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Re: Likely BA Heathrow route additions from Gatwick

Thu Nov 22, 2018 10:26 am

Ther was a recent thread about various moves between Gatwick & Heathrow in terms of destinations etc.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1406949&p=20809785&hilit=British+airways+Gatwick#p20809785

Cheers

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Geoff1947
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Re: Likely BA Heathrow route additions from Gatwick

Thu Nov 22, 2018 10:57 am

LTU932 wrote:
I'm praying for the day SJO gets moved from LGW to LHR. That said, it's more likely that a hypothetical BA flight to PTY will end up being from LHR.


Why ? Please leave it at LGW. We British prefer LGW whilst Americans seem to prefer LHR for some reason. Came home via LHR last night and still dislike it. PTY from LGW would be great too.

Geoff
 
Geoff1947
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Re: Likely BA Heathrow route additions from Gatwick

Thu Nov 22, 2018 11:03 am

LTU932 wrote:
I'm praying for the day SJO gets moved from LGW to LHR. That said, it's more likely that a hypothetical BA flight to PTY will end up being from LHR.


Why ? Please leave it at LGW. We British prefer LGW whilst Americans seem to prefer LHR for some reason. Came home via LHR last night and still dislike it.

Geoff
 
skipness1E
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Re: Likely BA Heathrow route additions from Gatwick

Thu Nov 22, 2018 11:25 am

Geoff1947 wrote:
LTU932 wrote:
I'm praying for the day SJO gets moved from LGW to LHR. That said, it's more likely that a hypothetical BA flight to PTY will end up being from LHR.


Why ? Please leave it at LGW. We British prefer LGW whilst Americans seem to prefer LHR for some reason. Came home via LHR last night and still dislike it. PTY from LGW would be great too.

Geoff

That’s not quite true, you mean you prefer Gatwick. LHR is easier and more accesible to more due to it’s location. Any connecting traffic worth real money is at LHR, not LGW. The airport within the M25 with the red buses, Oyster, tube and on the M4 corridor for business.

BA’s LGW routes nowadays tend to be ones that can survive on O&D, LHR-LAS did well as Europe-LAS was underserved and so was successful on feed, LGW-LAS exists to pick up the demand for LON-LAS that feed displaces given LAS is a classic LGW type holiday route. There is no “cost” in BA serving BGI from LGW, they have a whole fleet of (clapped out and unloved) B777s at LGW, there’s little benefit of a LHR move given the only feed it gets is from GLA/EDI.
Last edited by skipness1E on Thu Nov 22, 2018 11:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
windian425
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Re: Likely BA Heathrow route additions from Gatwick

Thu Nov 22, 2018 11:34 am

VS operate from both LGW and LHR to BGI in the winter season only. Perhaps BA could offer something similar. Instead of 10 weekly LGW, 7 from LGW and 3 from LHR. They have done this before after Concord was grounded.
 
Cunard
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Re: Likely BA Heathrow route additions from Gatwick

Thu Nov 22, 2018 11:45 am

Any aviation buff should know that it's CONCORDE with an E :-)

But I do agree with you regarding the option of a seasonal LHR-BGI with BA alongside LGW-BGI as I'm sure that VS will have success with theirs.
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lhrsfosyd
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Re: Likely BA Heathrow route additions from Gatwick

Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:05 pm

Agree twice a week in winter to BGI could work perhaps they can use SEZ slots and move it to LGW.
 
BA777FO
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Re: Likely BA Heathrow route additions from Gatwick

Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:43 pm

The problem with moves from LGW to LHR is slot availability, or lack of them, at Heathrow. BGI and BDA have year round First service, UVF gets First in the winter. None of those routes have a great deal of connections at either end so are primarily O&D, no need to move them to LHR. MCO could sustain LHR service, but it's difficult to justify a slot on at the moment when it's 2x daily in summer at LGW. That said, I wouldn't be too surprised if LIM went to LHR, perhaps ideal year-round on a 788.

The more interesting question is likely to be what moves from LHR to LGW. Given the takeover of Monarch slots, for summer '19 BA is adding an extra 777 to LGW, going from 13 to 14 airframes. So far it's just frequency increases to KIN, CUN and MCO but an unofficial, unverified rumour is that BA wants LGW to have 20 777s bssed there. That's an extra 6 lines of work. A350 and 787-10 deliveries (plus the 3 777-300ERs) are likely going to allow more LHR-based 777s to move to LGW. Whether it'll be route switches or new services remains to be seen but by about 2023 I'd guess BA's LGW 777 fleet to be very close to 20 strong.

The problem with SEZ is that it requires a crew bunk - the only 777s with crew bunks at LGW are RR powered. At LGW the only RR 777s are 3-class. I think it's unlikely they'd send just 1 4-class RR 777 to LGW and I doubt they'd essentially double Y capacity and withdraw First. A SEZ/MLE rotation on the aircraft would work well, but for a subfleet of just 1, not so much.

The LGW 777s are not clapped out and unloved though! They're all going through a very smart upgrade with new cabins and IFE + wifi.
 
chonetsao
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Re: Likely BA Heathrow route additions from Gatwick

Thu Nov 22, 2018 1:51 pm

With densitification of SH fleet in Heathrow, it is likely some short haul route may be cancelled in favor of City Airport running business schedule while Heathrow handles only connections. This could open 3 to 7 slot pairs for long haul. Think about the frequency of Dublin, Madrid, Paris and Frankfurt, the current schedule can be fine tuned with consolidation of certain flights or move to City Airport. So if BA wants to it could always find extra Heathrow flights for long haul. I think the only Gatwick flight that can be moved to Heathrow is Tampa. With Lufthansa and Norwegian entering the market as well as Delta opening AMS route, BA has to be defensive. The new Gatwick 777 would have too much capacity while Heathrow 788 may be a better fit. Plus it could benefit from Heathrow feed. So my bet is on TPA being moved to Heathrow and possible a frequency to MCO might be moved to Heathrow to test water as well.
 
shamrock321
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Re: Likely BA Heathrow route additions from Gatwick

Thu Nov 22, 2018 1:55 pm

windian425 wrote:
VS operate from both LGW and LHR to BGI in the winter season only. Perhaps BA could offer something similar. Instead of 10 weekly LGW, 7 from LGW and 3 from LHR. They have done this before after Concord was grounded.


VS don’t operate to BGI from LHR at any time of the year.
 
gunnerman
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Re: Likely BA Heathrow route additions from Gatwick

Thu Nov 22, 2018 2:17 pm

I thought that the three 777-300ERs will be a direct replacement for ancient 777-200s.

As for routes coming in: the LGW long-haul routes are predominantly westbound with just MRU being the exception. The 4-cabin 772s have 226 seats and the 3-cabin 772s have (or will have after densification) 336 seats. So, any new routes will have to make money with these aircraft and configurations. Eastbound SEZ is operated with a 216-seat 788 which is cheaper than a 772, and I don't see this destination switching from LHR.
 
gunnerman
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Re: Likely BA Heathrow route additions from Gatwick

Thu Nov 22, 2018 2:22 pm

shamrock321 wrote:
windian425 wrote:
VS operate from both LGW and LHR to BGI in the winter season only. Perhaps BA could offer something similar. Instead of 10 weekly LGW, 7 from LGW and 3 from LHR. They have done this before after Concord was grounded.


VS don’t operate to BGI from LHR at any time of the year.

LHR-BGI will be restarted this winter on 11 December, 2x weekly until 23 February 2019 using the 333.
 
BA777FO
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Re: Likely BA Heathrow route additions from Gatwick

Thu Nov 22, 2018 3:14 pm

chonetsao wrote:
I think the only Gatwick flight that can be moved to Heathrow is Tampa. With Lufthansa and Norwegian entering the market as well as Delta opening AMS route, BA has to be defensive. The new Gatwick 777 would have too much capacity while Heathrow 788 may be a better fit. Plus it could benefit from Heathrow feed. So my bet is on TPA being moved to Heathrow and possible a frequency to MCO might be moved to Heathrow to test water as well.


Unlikely - Tampa is ~95% O&D (the other connections tend to come from GLA/EDI or JER) and despite competition from Lufthansa and Norweigan loads are strong, even on the densified 777s. Moving it to LHR would offer a few more connection opportunities but BA can and does fill the flight on O&D. The best way for BA to compete on the route is to fly its lowest CASK/CASM aircraft on the route as it is doing.
 
gunnerman
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Re: Likely BA Heathrow route additions from Gatwick

Thu Nov 22, 2018 3:21 pm

Another thing to bear in mind is that both TPA and MCO are holiday destinations which some people like to combine, e.g. buy an open jaw ticket into TPA and return from MCO. You don't want to leave your car at LHR when you'll return to LGW.
 
chonetsao
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Re: Likely BA Heathrow route additions from Gatwick

Thu Nov 22, 2018 3:33 pm

BA777FO wrote:
chonetsao wrote:
I think the only Gatwick flight that can be moved to Heathrow is Tampa. With Lufthansa and Norwegian entering the market as well as Delta opening AMS route, BA has to be defensive. The new Gatwick 777 would have too much capacity while Heathrow 788 may be a better fit. Plus it could benefit from Heathrow feed. So my bet is on TPA being moved to Heathrow and possible a frequency to MCO might be moved to Heathrow to test water as well.


Unlikely - Tampa is ~95% O&D (the other connections tend to come from GLA/EDI or JER) and despite competition from Lufthansa and Norweigan loads are strong, even on the densified 777s. Moving it to LHR would offer a few more connection opportunities but BA can and does fill the flight on O&D. The best way for BA to compete on the route is to fly its lowest CASK/CASM aircraft on the route as it is doing.


Think this way, currently BA has a strong O&D is because BA was not even trying to sell connections from Europe bars DUB. You can check price from Europe to Tampa. The current low fares only exists on AA flight via CLT and PHL connections.

From few flights I have taken and tracked via GDS, TPA flight is mediocre at the best. And this flight is popular with non rev. High density 777 will be too much of a plane once Norwegian establish itself. It just started the flight few weeks ago, give it some time. We have seen LH already upggauged the plane. And LH is not even trying to sell TPA connections from UK. The average fares remains high. The real impact will be shown once 19 summer season starts with DL inaugural AMS flight, and once Norwegian fully established itself by March 19.
 
chonetsao
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Re: Likely BA Heathrow route additions from Gatwick

Thu Nov 22, 2018 3:43 pm

gunnerman wrote:
Another thing to bear in mind is that both TPA and MCO are holiday destinations which some people like to combine, e.g. buy an open jaw ticket into TPA and return from MCO. You don't want to leave your car at LHR when you'll return to LGW.


If you have the numbers to show it, I would love to see it. I know Tampa Airport talked about it, and the proposed train line between Orlando and Tampa used this as a support argument. But in reality most families taking kids to Mickey Mouse land tends to stay within Orlando and Space Coast area. Majority of the package sold in UK for MCO are MCO only. Hotels in Clearwater beach area are expensive for ordinary folks from UK. A side trip of 3 to 5 days to Clearwater Beach area could pay the whole cost of the one week Mickey Mouse land trip. And i have not seen invasion of British tourists in Busch Gardens area yet. Tampa is a VFR route with selected business traffic (think Lockheed Martin and Spine surgery industry) and less of a packaged holiday route. It is very different from the Mickey Mouse express. Again, I do like to see your numbers to see how many millions tourists would be impacted if the route is moved to Heathrow.
 
SeanM1997
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Re: Likely BA Heathrow route additions from Gatwick

Thu Nov 22, 2018 4:38 pm

Its unlikely LAS will be cut from LGW. BA have decreased their LHR-LAS from 10x weekly to 7x weekly in S19, and increasing LGW-LAS from 3x weekly to 6x weekly. I could see routes such as Tampa (daily) shifting from Gatwick to Heathrow - to compete against Lufthansa and Delta who serve other European airports. Lima should also be transferred (3x weekly) and moved to a B787 and operated year round.

Short haul, I wouldlike to see Jersey cut from 33x weekly to 20x weekly at LGW with 13x weekly shifted to LHR, as well as LHR serving Bordeaux (11x weekly), Porto (6x weekly), Seville (cut from 8x weekly to 7x weekly), Tirana (cut from 8x weekly to 6x weekly), Turin (cut from 7x weekly to 6x weekly) and Verona (14x weekly). To cater for the additional 72 flights at Heathrow - a daily routing of Amsterdam, Edinburgh, Glasgow and Rome would be shifted to Gatwick, enhancing their current service there. Meanwhile, an additional daily routing at London City to Berlin, Dublin, Dusseldorf, Frankfurt, Geneva, Milan Linate and Zurich would provide the capacity release at Heathrow, and offer point-to-point flying from the heart of London to cities across Europe.

Gatwick would still have approximately 6 daily short haul flights to fill - which could allow new routes to the likes of Geneva, Ibiza, Larnaca and Palma - or new destinations across Europe.
 
BA777FO
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Re: Likely BA Heathrow route additions from Gatwick

Thu Nov 22, 2018 6:00 pm

gunnerman wrote:
I thought that the three 777-300ERs will be a direct replacement for ancient 777-200s.

As for routes coming in: the LGW long-haul routes are predominantly westbound with just MRU being the exception. The 4-cabin 772s have 226 seats and the 3-cabin 772s have (or will have after densification) 336 seats. So, any new routes will have to make money with these aircraft and configurations. Eastbound SEZ is operated with a 216-seat 788 which is cheaper than a 772, and I don't see this destination switching from LHR.


The 772s being replaced currently fly to a mix of BAH, RUH, DXB, ABV, EWR and BOS, they're not going to replace them 1 for 1 with a 777-300ER on those routes. I'd expect the 787-10 will pick up some of those routes thus releasing 777s to go to LGW, the 777-300ERs may well be used to SAN or AUS year round or PHX, MIA, LAX, DFW etc

MLE, although seasonal, is also an eastbound LGW route. SEZ is on the 787-9 with First too, but as it requires a flight crew bunk, the current 4-class 777s at LGW are GE powered and have no bunk, only the 4-class RR 777s have bunks (as well as 3 class RR and 777-300ERs) so to move it to LGW and maintain First would mean a subfleet of one, a bit pointless.

There are a lot of ex-Monarch slots that can be converted to use for longhaul, but LHR doesn't really have so much flexibility as the bmi slots have been pretty much optomised save for a couple of slot pairs per day.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Likely BA Heathrow route additions from Gatwick

Thu Nov 22, 2018 6:22 pm

chonetsao wrote:
If you have the numbers to show it, I would love to see it.

I don't have airline stats to show it, but I do have access to other numbers that indirectly corroborate the idea.

Currently working in legal compliance for fleet opps of a major rental company, and among 1way (their equivalent of open jaw rentals) rentals in the southeastern market by non-US/Can/Mex based drivers, TPA to MCO (as well as MSY to MCO) are among the largest for 1way rental travel, with various drop-off points thrown in there.

What they consistently show, is that a significant amount of European (and LatAm) fliers do come into MSY/TPA, drive through the central Gulf Coast (yes, some TPA arrivals do go west before returning east) and then drop off in MCO. Rarely the other way around.

Looking at MSY's public stats, you can see that reflected as well:
its LHR and PTY nonstops have significantly higher inbound loads than outbound.

Never looked at stats from TPA, but I'd be shocked if they don't show the same.
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BA777FO
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Re: Likely BA Heathrow route additions from Gatwick

Thu Nov 22, 2018 6:29 pm

chonetsao wrote:
BA777FO wrote:
chonetsao wrote:
I think the only Gatwick flight that can be moved to Heathrow is Tampa. With Lufthansa and Norwegian entering the market as well as Delta opening AMS route, BA has to be defensive. The new Gatwick 777 would have too much capacity while Heathrow 788 may be a better fit. Plus it could benefit from Heathrow feed. So my bet is on TPA being moved to Heathrow and possible a frequency to MCO might be moved to Heathrow to test water as well.


Unlikely - Tampa is ~95% O&D (the other connections tend to come from GLA/EDI or JER) and despite competition from Lufthansa and Norweigan loads are strong, even on the densified 777s. Moving it to LHR would offer a few more connection opportunities but BA can and does fill the flight on O&D. The best way for BA to compete on the route is to fly its lowest CASK/CASM aircraft on the route as it is doing.


Think this way, currently BA has a strong O&D is because BA was not even trying to sell connections from Europe bars DUB. You can check price from Europe to Tampa. The current low fares only exists on AA flight via CLT and PHL connections.

From few flights I have taken and tracked via GDS, TPA flight is mediocre at the best. And this flight is popular with non rev. High density 777 will be too much of a plane once Norwegian establish itself. It just started the flight few weeks ago, give it some time. We have seen LH already upggauged the plane. And LH is not even trying to sell TPA connections from UK. The average fares remains high. The real impact will be shown once 19 summer season starts with DL inaugural AMS flight, and once Norwegian fully established itself by March 19.


BA doesn't need to sell connections on their LGW longhaul flights, that's why they're at LGW and not LHR. The whole point of the LGW longhaul flights: they're primarily O&D and mostly from the UK point of sale. If you can fill it with higher yielding O&D why sell lower yielding connections?

I've operated to TPA more than any other destination this year, it's a strong performer in the summer especially. It's popular with non-rev/staff passengers just because to get on a flight to MCO you need to be either very lucky or have long service. Lufty has upguaged, gives you a clue to how well Tampa is performing, same for BA - that's why it can take the capacity upgrade of the densified 777s. Norwegian is only 2x week - in reality it won't make much difference.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Likely BA Heathrow route additions from Gatwick

Thu Nov 22, 2018 6:34 pm

LTU932 wrote:
a hypothetical BA flight to PTY

Still somewhat surprised that one doesn't exist already.
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Cunard
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Re: Likely BA Heathrow route additions from Gatwick

Fri Nov 23, 2018 2:44 am

SeanM1997

Gatwick would still have approximately 6 daily short haul flights to fill - which could allow new routes to the likes of Geneva, Ibiza, Larnaca and Palma - or new destinations across Europe.[/quote]

British Airways already fly from LGW to Geneva, Ibiza, Larnaca and Palma.

It's very difficult to judge where British Airways could actually expand in Europe from LGW as between LHR and LGW the airline more or less have Europe covered.

They recently ceased Montpelier and Murcia perhaps a return to those two at some point.

Granada could possibly be moved from LCY to LGW.

Las Palmas is currently flown from LHR and is a missing destination with BA in the Canary Islands from LGW so a possible move from LHR to LGW.

A possible resumption of Sarajevo in Bosnia Herzegovina and Skopje in Macedonia from LGW.

A possible resumption of Belgrade in Serbia from LHR.

Although British Airways currently code share with Air Baltic they could possibly resume Riga and Vilnius from LGW.

Also the suggestion of Jersey being served from both LGW and LHR is a no brainier in my opinion, also perhaps a code share with Aurigny on LGW to GCI.

Looking at possible short/mid haul destinations in Africa from LGW,

A return to Tunis at some point in the future now that the country is more or less stable again and attracting tourists back to the country.

A possible winter destination could be Banjul in The Gambia.

A resumption of Casablanca from LHR and Agadir from LGW.

These are obviously wild suggestions and shouldn't be taken seriously because as I've previously stated it's very difficult to see where British Airways can actually expand their European short haul network from both LGW and LHR.

As far as Worldwide long haul expansion with new destinations added to the airlines network I wouldn't know where to start but as others have pointed out a resumption of PTY could be a good contender from LHR and a resumption of HAV from LGW.

(PTY was previously served by British Airways from LHR in around 1982) But Panama City is a completely different destination now compared to back then.

As far as long haul from LGW is concerned I wonder if Fortaleza or resuming Recife or even Salvador de Bahia as being future possibilities.

I also fully agree with other posters regarding the possibility of LGW to Lima being moved to a year round service from LHR with a B788, although I understand the reasons why but I was quite surprised at the time when British Airways initially announced that Lima would be served from LGW as on paper this seems more suitable at LHR.

But who knows I think that we were all surprised shocked even when British Airways announced a seasonal LHR to Charleston :-)
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gunnerman
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Re: Likely BA Heathrow route additions from Gatwick

Fri Nov 23, 2018 2:14 pm

If BA wants to expend at LGW then it's doing it the hard way. BA had the advertising slogan "Gatwick. The hub without the hubbub" when the North Terminal opened in 1988 and became the home of BA’s Gatwick operation. The following year GB Airways moved to LGW and subsequently became a BA franchise with a route network across north Africa, south Europe and the Mediterranean. But BA declined to buy GB Airways from Bland Group who sold it to easyJet in 2007. This is why easyJet acquired an operation in the North Terminal in addition to its South Terminal operation. After a while easyJet became the biggest beast at LGW whilst BA declined, and easyJet successfully lobbied Gatwick airport to get a relocation to the North Terminal with BA going to the South Terminal.

It's often hard to get back what you once had or could have had.
 
skipness1E
Posts: 4483
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:18 am

Re: Likely BA Heathrow route additions from Gatwick

Fri Nov 23, 2018 2:39 pm

Yes but that hub model didn't work. It cannibalised LHR badly, the South American and African routes that moved round the M25 left their premium passengers flying out of LHR with the competition. BA can just about run a single hub operation in profit, a dual hub is a major challenge. Also remember, I never believed BA LGW could make money, it was, IMHO beyond hope. BUT smarter people than I with access to real time data figured out the only way to make actual money at Gatters was to *SLASH* costs, headcount, outsource handling and simplify the fleet to a two type model, B763, B757, B744s were all returned to LHR and B734s retired with SECOND HAND A320s being sourced and ex BMI A319s coming round from LHR. The hard product on the long haul GE90 powered B777s is inferior to LHR but densification is actually a good investment to partially address this.

The operation now competes with a dominant EZY on a good selection of routes. Adding costs and complexity to this simplified focus is not something they'd do lightly, as we've been here before.
 
Breathe
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Re: Likely BA Heathrow route additions from Gatwick

Fri Nov 23, 2018 5:27 pm

deleted.
 
Cunard
Posts: 2424
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 6:45 pm

Re: Likely BA Heathrow route additions from Gatwick

Sat Nov 24, 2018 2:21 am

gunnerman wrote:
If BA wants to expend at LGW then it's doing it the hard way. BA had the advertising slogan "Gatwick. The hub without the hubbub" when the North Terminal opened in 1988 and became the home of BA’s Gatwick operation. The following year GB Airways moved to LGW and subsequently became a BA franchise with a route network across north Africa, south Europe and the Mediterranean. But BA declined to buy GB Airways from Bland Group who sold it to easyJet in 2007. This is why easyJet acquired an operation in the North Terminal in addition to its South Terminal operation. After a while easyJet became the biggest beast at LGW whilst BA declined, and easyJet successfully lobbied Gatwick airport to get a relocation to the North Terminal with BA going to the South Terminal.

It's often hard to get back what you once had or could have had.


GB Airways were operating at LGW long before they had access to LHR which didn't occur until 1991, their first and original route was GIB-LGW in 1982.

GB Airways had a far bigger presence and network from LGW than they had from LHR when EasyJet bought the airline from Gibraltars Bland Group in 2007.

It may well have been a mistake by British Airways at the time by not acquiring GB Airways but considering that they didn't and it was sold to EasyJet instead British Airways have done an excellent job at LGW in expanding their short haul network to more or less where it was when GB Airways was a BA franchise carrier.

The only missing destinations that were previously flown by GB Airways as a BA franchise carrier and aren't currently flown by British Airways is very few and include the following,

Agadir
Casablanca
Fez
Jerez de la Frontera
Murcia
Tangier
Trieste
Tunis

All the other destinations that were lost to the network when GB Airways ended it's franchise with BA upon the sale to EasyJet have over time been reinstated by British Airways.

Btw Skip is spot on with his analysis and also FYI British Airways did not use the advertising thrase of ''the hub without the hubhub at LGW when the North Terminal was opened in 1988 this did not happen until March 1996 when British Airways wanted to attract higher yield business traffic to the airport and strengthening it's presence by launching further domestic and European services by itself as well as it's franchise partners which at the time included Cityflyer Express, Deutsch BA, GB Airways and TAT (Touraine Air Transport) as well as transferring 11 African routes and the South American network from LHR to it's existing network at LGW with the majority of those routes a throwback from the merger with BCAL that officially took place in August 1988.

Skip explained it fully as to how that idea panned out.

Regarding London Gatwick North Terminal, it was originally built by the BAA and was planned to be the hub for BCAL but by the time it was completed in 1988 the airline was already under the control of British Airways and it therefore became the British Airways terminal at LGW.

Prior to the merger of BCAL into British Airways in 1988 the airline itself had a fairly small presence at LGW although it did have British Airtours as well, if it wasn't for the merger British Airways and British Airtours would have remained at the South Terminal.
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