When couriers using passengers flights, are there cases that courier boxes travel in passenger cabin, strapped onto the seat with seat belts, if so, what is the maximum weight a passengers seat could carry? Is those operations profitable?
Kev
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Re: Courier box flying on passenger seats
At my former carrier, to carry cargo in a seat, we were supposed to use a special container known as a seat-pack. It was somewhat shaped like a person in a seat position (or think of a cello case upside down). But in all my years of flying the line, I never once saw one.
Many years ago, we were scheduled to operate a freight only run with a passenger 727. There was more cargo (small packages) than could be placed in the cargo bins, so Ops placed the loose packages in the overhead bins, then stacked in the seats - NOT in seat-packs. I refused to fly the aircraft loaded that way.
Many years ago, we were scheduled to operate a freight only run with a passenger 727. There was more cargo (small packages) than could be placed in the cargo bins, so Ops placed the loose packages in the overhead bins, then stacked in the seats - NOT in seat-packs. I refused to fly the aircraft loaded that way.
Re: Courier box flying on passenger seats
Back in the day I worked on the ramp for Air North, and they utilize seat packs (or used to at least) on lots of flights! The seat pack was designed to fill the space between seats, and was loaded with cargo (generally smaller boxes and soft packages. Sometimes would occupy the last 3-4 rows of the plane (on a 737-200). Seen this a lot on the Vancouver-Whitehorse flight.
Re: Courier box flying on passenger seats
CI's rules for pax purchasing "cargo seats".
"(2) You can store larger musical instruments if both the dimension and weight are over the forgoing specification (like a Bass or a cello) on a purchased seat if you do not want to check them in. or check in it as a checked baggage. "
https://www.china-airlines.com/us/en/fl ... on-baggage
"(2) You can store larger musical instruments if both the dimension and weight are over the forgoing specification (like a Bass or a cello) on a purchased seat if you do not want to check them in. or check in it as a checked baggage. "
https://www.china-airlines.com/us/en/fl ... on-baggage
Re: Courier box flying on passenger seats
As far as I know Deutsche Post still operates some nightly postal flights within Germany. I once saw a TV report about it. They use regular passenger jets from various airlines, which would sit idle at night anyway. Cargo hold and cabin is used. They showed how they put seat covers over the seats and placed postbags in the seats.
Re: Courier box flying on passenger seats
ei146 wrote:As far as I know Deutsche Post still operates some nightly postal flights within Germany. I once saw a TV report about it. They use regular passenger jets from various airlines, which would sit idle at night anyway. Cargo hold and cabin is used. They showed how they put seat covers over the seats and placed postbags in the seats.
LH was in this business but that was many many moons ago...
Re: Courier box flying on passenger seats
@stylo777
Is my memory right, or is it possible that I saw a large metal box "traveling" on a seat like a passenger, also many moons ago on my intra-european flights?.
(more than once)
Regards.
B8887
Is my memory right, or is it possible that I saw a large metal box "traveling" on a seat like a passenger, also many moons ago on my intra-european flights?.
(more than once)
Regards.
B8887
Re: Courier box flying on passenger seats
If you ever take the WF milk run flight , TOS-KKN( the 7 stopper ) you’ll see that the Dash 8-100 used has half of its sets fill with large mail sacks rather than people.
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- worldranger
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Re: Courier box flying on passenger seats
An old instructor of mine, retired United DC-10 captain, said they used to fly packages in the seats of their 727’s during nights out of LAX in the ‘70’s.
But the funny part of the story was - “We used to let the FE do the take-offs on those!”
But the funny part of the story was - “We used to let the FE do the take-offs on those!”
Re: Courier box flying on passenger seats
If I'm understanding the concept/question correctly, I don't think this is allowed anymore as prohibited items could be in there and accessible to passengers.
Re: Courier box flying on passenger seats
Air Greenland does it from time to time. Passenger loads tend to be low, but the cargo hold is always full. They strap mail-bags in the seats using the seat-belts.
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- andymartin
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Re: Courier box flying on passenger seats
Do the courier companies employ people to accompany some packages?
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- jetmatt777
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Re: Courier box flying on passenger seats
andymartin wrote:Do the courier companies employ people to accompany some packages?
In OKC we had a courier who fly to GRU 3x a week with 5-6 denim sacks full of electronics and expensive items. On the return he would bring back seasonings and spices and such. I assume it’s a very profitable business. These of course would be checked bags, but yes the couriers accompany their items. Other wise it would be freight.
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- andymartin
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Re: Courier box flying on passenger seats
So do the couriers work for the airline? Or the freight/parcel companies?
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- jetmatt777
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Re: Courier box flying on passenger seats
andymartin wrote:So do the couriers work for the airline? Or the freight/parcel companies?
They work independently or for a courier firm. To the airline they are just another passenger.
Re: Courier box flying on passenger seats
FlyHossD wrote:At my former carrier, to carry cargo in a seat, we were supposed to use a special container known as a seat-pack. It was somewhat shaped like a person in a seat position (or think of a cello case upside down). But in all my years of flying the line, I never once saw one.
Many years ago, we were scheduled to operate a freight only run with a passenger 727. There was more cargo (small packages) than could be placed in the cargo bins, so Ops placed the loose packages in the overhead bins, then stacked in the seats - NOT in seat-packs. I refused to fly the aircraft loaded that way.
That is what I looking for thanks, just wonder whether those were mostly courier packages or it could anything that fits the packs itself, were the yield better than flying passengers around?
Kev
Re: Courier box flying on passenger seats
Back in the 1980's one could do 'courier' flights that would use the baggage allowance to transport critical package shipments in various places around the world. You would get a cheap fare but limited to carry on for your personal luggage.
It seams today most courier packages, consumer goods or mail on or in passenger seats or areas, is mainly for domestic flights to isolated communities where land or water operations limited (like in the winter).
It seams today most courier packages, consumer goods or mail on or in passenger seats or areas, is mainly for domestic flights to isolated communities where land or water operations limited (like in the winter).
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- andymartin
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Re: Courier box flying on passenger seats
Can one still get a job as an air courier?
Re: Courier box flying on passenger seats
My first and only trip as an OBC, was also my first flight on the Concorde. Back then, there was a thriving courier market between various European financial markets and Wall Street, carrying important paperwork. The AF and BA morning Concorde services nearly always had one or more couriers onboard monday through friday.
Morning flight from CPH to LHR, an hour or so in the Concorde lounge, and then BA001 to JFK. Arrived in JFK around 2,5 hours, local time, after departing CPH. Carried a DHL courier bag which was checked in as normal luggage, and a small carry on. Spent two nights, at own cost, then on back in cattle class on a BA 747 to Heathrow. Quite a let down that was.
Morning flight from CPH to LHR, an hour or so in the Concorde lounge, and then BA001 to JFK. Arrived in JFK around 2,5 hours, local time, after departing CPH. Carried a DHL courier bag which was checked in as normal luggage, and a small carry on. Spent two nights, at own cost, then on back in cattle class on a BA 747 to Heathrow. Quite a let down that was.
Re: Courier box flying on passenger seats
andymartin wrote:Can one still get a job as an air courier?
Don't think many such jobs ever existed, and these days it's so rare I'm certain it's not the case anymore.
Onboard Courier (OBC) almost ended in the early 2000s, when scanning and faxing took over. However, even back then it was usually young staff members at courier companies who got offered the job, taking advantage of cheaper youth fares. Only if no staff members were available, and that was nearly always the case, would outside help be brought in. That would usually be trusted friends of existing employees.
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