VSMUT
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Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:10 am

factsonly wrote:
Support for FlyBe from unexpected quarters??

KLM has closed reservations for its 2x daily SOU-AMS route for Summer 2019, leaving FlyBe as the monopoly operator with 4x daily services.
KLM continues to sell long-haul connections to SOU using its codeshare on the 4x daily FlyBe services.

At 20.000 passengers per month, this decision may help FlyBe gain a little more revenue.

The slot situation at AMS, is forcing KLM to optimise its slot portfolio for long-haul services.


KLM was forced to hand over some slots to FlyBe, no? Sub-contracting or codesharing is one way to get around that.
 
JobsaGoodun
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Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:49 am

Posted in error, see below.
Last edited by JobsaGoodun on Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:57 am, edited 2 times in total.
 
JobsaGoodun
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Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:53 am

What's the source of the confirmation of a KL/BE codeshare and/or that KL we're forced to transfer slots?
I was lead to believe that the reason KL stopped the SOU operation was purely due to the fact that it was generating little contribution towards their long haul connections and that most passengers were point to point.

With all available capacity at AMS now assigned in terms of maximum annual movements, it would seem more likely that KL are reviewing their operations and for those that don't contribute sufficiently to their overall operation and long haul feed, choosing to reassign these slots to better benefit the entire business. With LHR a relatively short distance from SOU, it's perhaps not surprising that transfer traffic may have been weak. I for one would much rather a short drive to LHR and a direct flight than to go via AMS on a connection.
 
Jetty
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Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Sun Dec 02, 2018 10:47 am

The slot constraint at AMS is very recent. All slots KL had to give up ever are afaik a few slots to Norwegian because of the AF/KL/DL JV.
 
Cunard
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Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Sun Dec 02, 2018 11:25 am

Well that is an absolute bummer for my local airport of SOU if it's the case that KLM are leaving the airport especially as the new Masterplan has just been submitted.

SOU needs more airlines and more competition not less.

If it does happen I'll miss looking up at the KLM Embraers as they fly over my home as the continuous sight of the Flybe Dash 8s are rather boring.

Considering that Flybe and KLM codeshare on the majority of their UK to AMS flights as well operating simultaneously on many of them I am rather surprised that KLM are indeed pulling SOU especially as the loads are good.

I much prefer to use KLM on SOU to AMS than use Flybe.

This news has started my Sunday off rather depressingly :-(
94 Countries, 327 Destinations Worldwide, 32 Airlines, 29 Aircraft Types, 182 Airports, 335 Flights.
 
JobsaGoodun
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Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Sun Dec 02, 2018 5:32 pm

KLM do not codeshare on any Flybe operated flights to AMS
 
Cunard
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Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Sun Dec 02, 2018 7:53 pm

I was under the impression they did code share but I just looked at the arrivals on the SOU website and it appears that they don't, I could have sworn that that did but obviously not.

Regardless of that SOU losing KLM is a huge loss to the airport :-(
94 Countries, 327 Destinations Worldwide, 32 Airlines, 29 Aircraft Types, 182 Airports, 335 Flights.
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Sun Dec 02, 2018 8:44 pm

What are all the large buildings just south of SOU (across M27)?
Does loss of KL impact their use?
 
Themotionman
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Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:37 pm

WPvsMW wrote:
What are all the large buildings just south of SOU (across M27)?
Does loss of KL impact their use?


I don't think there are any large buildings just across the M27. I'm pretty sure there used to be an old Ford Factory on the other side of the M27, but I think that's been flattened.
 
bmibaby737
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Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:43 pm

Cunard wrote:
I was under the impression they did code share but I just looked at the arrivals on the SOU website and it appears that they don't, I could have sworn that that did but obviously not.

Regardless of that SOU losing KLM is a huge loss to the airport :-(


A few years ago KLM use to codeshare with Flybe but it ended some time ago
 
Cunard
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Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:43 pm

The large buildings on the other side of the M27 is a brand new logistics park built on the former FORD Factory site, they are not tall buildings and are not in the line of the runway so don't have any impact on the runway or airport operations.
94 Countries, 327 Destinations Worldwide, 32 Airlines, 29 Aircraft Types, 182 Airports, 335 Flights.
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Mon Dec 03, 2018 2:22 am

A huge logistics park! A larger logistics park than SOU had before, so won't loss of KL's lift would be a factor? To my eye, the new park at SOU is much larger than CLA's facility in Hayes. ... does CargoLogicAir (or other cargo airline, or VS) have something up its sleeve? This is pure speculation on my part, not even a rumour.

The new logistics park at SOU is roughly the same size as the cargo facilities at LHR! The capex analysis for the new park must have assumed the tonnage was there.

At same scale.
https://goo.gl/maps/GqzKRaNkrkH2 at LHR

https://goo.gl/maps/JNBxtQVtno22 at SOU
 
Cunard
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Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Mon Dec 03, 2018 1:14 pm

The large logistics park is not airport related and in actual fact the majority of the units are already let with John Lewis being a recent tenant.

CargoLogic and SOU!!!!!!

Are you aware of the length of the runway at SOU and the lack of apron space!!!!

The logistic park was built on the former Ford Factory and as being a brownfield site planning permission was only permitted for this use and although the airport is close by the development is not airport related.
94 Countries, 327 Destinations Worldwide, 32 Airlines, 29 Aircraft Types, 182 Airports, 335 Flights.
 
BrianDromey
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Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Mon Dec 03, 2018 1:46 pm

Cunard wrote:
Anyone thinking that there will be a LEVELuk are jumping ahead of themselves and to be brutally honest I don't foresee this happening.

Remember a few years when many people on these forums were absolutely serious in their comments that VUELING would take over the entire LGW short haul operation, it never happened for obvious reasons and the same can be said about the possibility of a LEVELuk.


It's a scenario, not a prediction. I totally agree with you, growing a LEVELuk from flyBe seems a difficult way to do it. The one thing to consider is that IAG may wish to defend 'their' UK markets against Norwegian and VS/DL.
 
BestWestern
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Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Mon Dec 03, 2018 2:44 pm

KLM can only codeshare on two routes per airline for non alliance carriers.
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
Bhoy
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Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:24 pm

WPvsMW wrote:
A huge logistics park! A larger logistics park than SOU had before, so won't loss of KL's lift would be a factor? To my eye, the new park at SOU is much larger than CLA's facility in Hayes. ... does CargoLogicAir (or other cargo airline, or VS) have something up its sleeve? This is pure speculation on my part, not even a rumour.

The new logistics park at SOU is roughly the same size as the cargo facilities at LHR! The capex analysis for the new park must have assumed the tonnage was there.

At same scale.
https://goo.gl/maps/GqzKRaNkrkH2 at LHR

https://goo.gl/maps/JNBxtQVtno22 at SOU

Given that there were questions asked when BA5390 made an emergency landing at SOU in 1990 as to whether a BAC1-11 could land on the runway at SOU, I can hardly see any kind of Cargo Widebodies showing up there.
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:54 pm

True, I don't think a 170m extension will attract the freight WBs.
https://www.traveldailymedia.com/southa ... asterplan/

Still leaves open the question of why the logistics park is so massive, and "on the wrong side of the M27".
 
Cunard
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Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:05 am

Your getting carried away with yourself when you write,

''Still leaves open the question why the logistics park is so massive''

Because it's built on the former Ford Factory site which is a brownfield site, planning permission for the site was only for a logistics park to safeguard jobs, it would never have gotten planning permission for housing.

The logistics park is huge because the footprint of the former Ford Factory was huge, it's not built on the wrong side of the M27.

There is a shortage of logistics facilities in the M27 corridor hence why this large logistics park was built.

The logistics park is in an prime position situated close to the junctions of the M27 and the M3.

It has absolutely nothing to do with the airport, it's totally separate.

I live in Southampton and drive past it regularly enough!
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Cunard
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Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:34 am

Bhoy wrote:
WPvsMW wrote:
A huge logistics park! A larger logistics park than SOU had before, so won't loss of KL's lift would be a factor? To my eye, the new park at SOU is much larger than CLA's facility in Hayes. ... does CargoLogicAir (or other cargo airline, or VS) have something up its sleeve? This is pure speculation on my part, not even a rumour.

The new logistics park at SOU is roughly the same size as the cargo facilities at LHR! The capex analysis for the new park must have assumed the tonnage was there.

At same scale.
https://goo.gl/maps/GqzKRaNkrkH2 at LHR

https://goo.gl/maps/JNBxtQVtno22 at SOU

Given that there were questions asked when BA5390 made an emergency landing at SOU in 1990 as to whether a BAC1-11 could land on the runway at SOU, I can hardly see any kind of Cargo Widebodies showing up there.


That emergency landing of the British Airways BAC1-11 in 1990 was obviously in distress considering the events surrounding it.

In normal situations SOU could easily handle a BAC1-11.

British Airways, British Caledonian Airways, British United Airways, Cambrian Airways BAC1-11s were regular scheduled visitors to SOU from the late sixties upto 1980.

The largest aircraft that SOU can safely handle is the B757 with Thomson having previously used them on a regular basis from the airport in the past even as far as Tenerife.

A319 and B320 plus B738 have all used SOU on a regular basis from various airlines with EasyJet currently using the A320 to three weekly from SOU to Geneva.

As far as short/mid haul jets are concerned personally I have seen the following at SOU,

Airbus 319/320/321
BAC1-11 (all series)
Boeing 727-100 and 727-200
Boeing 737 (all series except the 733-9 and 737-10)
Boeing 757-200
Sud Aviation Caravelle series 10 and 12.

A British European Airways HS Trident 1E landed at the airport during the seventies, the one and only time that SOU ever saw one.

But this isn't a thread about SOU it's a thread about a possible takeover of Flybe by Virgin although obviously in some part that does have a reflection on SOU but if anyone wants to discuss the length of the runway at SOU, the airports recently released Masterplan, the airport capabilities or off site non airport related Logistics Parks I suggest that we start a dedicated Southampton thread!
94 Countries, 327 Destinations Worldwide, 32 Airlines, 29 Aircraft Types, 182 Airports, 335 Flights.
 
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Dublinspotter
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Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Tue Dec 18, 2018 1:43 pm

Any updates on these VS/BE talks? Seems to have gone quiet recently.
Dublinspotter
 
DobboDobbo
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Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:32 pm

Dublinspotter wrote:
Any updates on these VS/BE talks? Seems to have gone quiet recently.


There is no way of telling, but I think silence means things are progressing.

For example, I suspect BE and the interested party (or parties) are engaging in advanced discussions - for example the potential purchaser(s) are undertaking due diligence prior to making offers (or if a preferred bidder is in place it is undertaking due diligence to get the deal to completion). In both of these instances I would expect the parties to have entered into a non-disclosure agreement.

Had public statements continued to emerge, I don't think the transaction would be progressing.
 
factsonly
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Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:07 pm

Dublinspotter wrote:
Any updates on these VS/BE talks? Seems to have gone quiet recently.


VIRGIN ATLANTIC PRESS
19 December 2018:

Following our statement on 23 November 2018, Virgin Atlantic confirms that we continue to review our options in respect of Flybe, including potentially making an offer for Flybe. Discussions with Flybe and its management are continuing. Virgin Atlantic emphasises there can be no certainty that any offer will be made nor as to the terms upon which any offer may be made.

Background:

In accordance with Rule 26.1 of the Code, a copy of this announcement will be available at https://www.virginatlantic.com/gb/en/media-centre.html by no later than 12 noon (London time) on 20 December 2018. The content of the website referred to in this announcement is not incorporated into and does not form part of this announcement.
N.M.Rothschild & Sons Limited ("Rothschild & Co"), authorised and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority in the United Kingdom, is acting exclusively for Virgin Atlantic and for no one else in connection with the subject matter of this announcement and will not be responsible to anyone other than Virgin Atlantic for providing the protections afforded to its clients or for providing advice in connection with the subject matter of this announcement.
For record – Virgin Atlantic statement on 23 November 2018: “Virgin Atlantic notes the recent media speculation related to Flybe. Virgin Atlantic has a trading and codeshare relationship and confirms that it is reviewing its options in respect of Flybe, which range from enhanced commercial arrangements to a possible offer for Flybe. Virgin Atlantic emphasises that there can be no certainty that an offer will be made nor as to the terms of any offer.”
 
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Channex757
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Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:28 pm

Things always seem to move fast all at once.

VS have a major issue looming, if Brexit goes the No Deal route. That is looking possible. Branson will have to buy back the AF/KL stake or cancel the deal to push VS back into the 50%+1 UK shareholding rules. This is apparently built into the AF agreement.

The other option is for DL to divest some shares and I can't see that happening.

With all that uncertainty around VS will a deal to take on BE be possible?
 
TC957
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Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Wed Dec 19, 2018 3:05 pm

Time will tell, I certainly hope something good comes out of the VS / BE talks for SOU airports sake if nothing else. That airport will be a ghost without BE. Incidentally, SOU once had an IL-76 there in the early nineties when TransMeridian operated a couple.
The issue with VS's AF/KL stake as highlighted by Channex757 is certainly one to watch.
 
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Aisak
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Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Wed Dec 19, 2018 3:12 pm

Channex757 wrote:
VS have a major issue looming, if Brexit goes the No Deal route. That is looking possible. Branson will have to buy back the AF/KL stake or cancel the deal to push VS back into the 50%+1 UK shareholding rules. This is apparently built into the AF agreement.

The other option is for DL to divest some shares and I can't see that happening.


I don't see any trouble linking Brexit (difficult and pinful as it is) and Virgin Atlantic shareholders. Right now VS is a British registered company, holding a UK aviation certificate. That won't change, Brexit, no Brexit, no-deal Brexit, soft Brexit or whatever.

After (allegedly) 30th March 2019 the EU-US Air Service Agreement will no longer cover UK airlines flying to the US, but i seems a new UK-US agreement in on its way and seems it'll be ready by that date.

Since VS does not fly a) within the EU, or b) from any point in the EU (outside UK) and the US, it seems it will suffice.

Under that new agreement any US airline could just shout "Virgin Atlantic is not really a UK airline" if and only if that future agreement defines some kind of minimum on how much British-owned has a British airline to be.
One quick solution should this problem arrise. One could see Delta buying 1% more of VS and as such, this movement will make VS overnight a suitable airline for flights between UK and US. It will just be a UK subsidiary of a US airline. Should the UK allow a British Airline to be +50% US-owned (plus 20% French) is debatable but workable.

It could rise some problems with 3rd countries, but..... being only 20% British owned right now, VS has not seen any.
If such a thing ever happens, there is an airline called Virgin Atlantic International Limited (VAIL) which is 100%-owned by VS and could adjust its shareholding pattern to match any desired criteria.
 
Cunard
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Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Wed Dec 19, 2018 3:52 pm

TC957 wrote:
Time will tell, I certainly hope something good comes out of the VS / BE talks for SOU airports sake if nothing else. That airport will be a ghost without BE. Incidentally, SOU once had an IL-76 there in the early nineties when TransMeridian operated a couple.
The issue with VS's AF/KL stake as highlighted by Channex757 is certainly one to watch.


That IL-76 that visited Southampton had nothing to do with TransMeridian.

Trans Meridian Air Cargo TMAC was a British cargo airline based at London Stansted Airport that started operations in 1962 and merged 1979 with London Gatwick based IAS Cargo Airlines to form British Cargo Airlines, it was short lived and went bankrupt a year later in 1980.

Incidentally before the merger with IAS Air Cargo in 1979 TMAC was owned by the Trafalger House Group which at the time owned the newspaper Daily Express and the shipping company CUNARD Line, it was also a large shareholder of the Midland Bank.

Shortly after the bankruptcy of British Cargo Airlines the British freight company Air Foyle formed Heavylift Cargo Airlines.

In March 1992 Ilyushin 76TD CCCP-76758
which was leased to Heavylift Cargo Airlines and wearing the airlines full colour scheme visited Southampton Airport on several occasions in connection with the Oil Spill Response Centre which is based at Saxon Wharf Quay, Northam, Southampton.

The Ilyushin-76 might be a large aircraft for SOU but it's take off and landing performances wouldn't have been an issue at SOU as the aircraft was built for far shorter runways.

As large as the IL-76 is and it might have four engines but SOU has also seen an RAF Globemaster on at least one occasion and not forgetting the fact that several airlines have used the B757 into SOU which is in fact the largest aircraft to use the airport.
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adtall
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Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:30 pm

Aisak wrote:
Channex757 wrote:
VS have a major issue looming, if Brexit goes the No Deal route. That is looking possible. Branson will have to buy back the AF/KL stake or cancel the deal to push VS back into the 50%+1 UK shareholding rules. This is apparently built into the AF agreement.

The other option is for DL to divest some shares and I can't see that happening.


I don't see any trouble linking Brexit (difficult and pinful as it is) and Virgin Atlantic shareholders. Right now VS is a British registered company, holding a UK aviation certificate. That won't change, Brexit, no Brexit, no-deal Brexit, soft Brexit or whatever.

After (allegedly) 30th March 2019 the EU-US Air Service Agreement will no longer cover UK airlines flying to the US, but i seems a new UK-US agreement in on its way and seems it'll be ready by that date.

Since VS does not fly a) within the EU, or b) from any point in the EU (outside UK) and the US, it seems it will suffice.

Under that new agreement any US airline could just shout "Virgin Atlantic is not really a UK airline" if and only if that future agreement defines some kind of minimum on how much British-owned has a British airline to be.
One quick solution should this problem arrise. One could see Delta buying 1% more of VS and as such, this movement will make VS overnight a suitable airline for flights between UK and US. It will just be a UK subsidiary of a US airline. Should the UK allow a British Airline to be +50% US-owned (plus 20% French) is debatable but workable.

It could rise some problems with 3rd countries, but..... being only 20% British owned right now, VS has not seen any.
If such a thing ever happens, there is an airline called Virgin Atlantic International Limited (VAIL) which is 100%-owned by VS and could adjust its shareholding pattern to match any desired criteria.


This is already taken care of in the new US-UK aviation agreement to take effect post-Brexit. The current airlines' EU/UK ownership structures are grandfathered in (so IAG and VS qualify based on EU/EEA and UK ownership, e.g. AF's VS stake counts towards the 51% ownership for US purposes), but any post-Brexit entrant would have to have 51% UK ownership. So for VS that's basically all they need outside of the Caribbean routes (can't imagine that'll be a tough diplomatic issue, assuming an EU bilateral which I doubt many have), Nigeria, China for the PVG route, and HKG. Considering there's no EU-wide aviation bilateral with China, Nigeria, or HKG that I'm aware of, VS already qualifies as a UK airline under those agreements so they should be good (if the ownership clauses are still valid, e.g. HKG). Link for US-UK deal: https://www.bbc.com/news/business-46380463
 
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janders
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Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:10 pm

Deal confirmed

VIRGIN ATLANTIC TO LEAD A FLYBE TAKEOVER
https://aviationanalyst.co.uk/2019/01/1 ... -analysis/
"We make war that we may live in peace." -- Aristotle
 
leghorn
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Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:20 pm

janders wrote:
Deal confirmed

VIRGIN ATLANTIC TO LEAD A FLYBE TAKEOVER
https://aviationanalyst.co.uk/2019/01/1 ... -analysis/

That is not "Deal Confirmed"
If the rumoured sale price is really that low then the shareholders would be better served by a liquidation not a sale.
The offered share price has to be approved by shareholders.
 
LHRFlyer
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Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:21 pm

janders wrote:
Deal confirmed

VIRGIN ATLANTIC TO LEAD A FLYBE TAKEOVER
https://aviationanalyst.co.uk/2019/01/1 ... -analysis/


Extremely poor behaviour by the author of that article not to give Mark Kleinman of Sky News credit for breaking the story.

This story by Sky has more substance on the actual deal itself:

https://news.sky.com/story/virgin-and-s ... l-11604069
 
seansasLCY
Topic Author
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Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:02 pm

LHRFlyer wrote:
janders wrote:
Deal confirmed

VIRGIN ATLANTIC TO LEAD A FLYBE TAKEOVER
https://aviationanalyst.co.uk/2019/01/1 ... -analysis/


Extremely poor behaviour by the author of that article not to give Mark Kleinman of Sky News credit for breaking the story.

This story by Sky has more substance on the actual deal itself:

https://news.sky.com/story/virgin-and-s ... l-11604069


It’s everyone’s favourite self titled aviation analyst who usually regurgitates press releases and other stories so no surprise. Mark Kleinman has an amazing skill of finding these scoops!
 
leghorn
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Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:11 pm

This scoop from Sky makes little sense.
Flybe is worth that and more in the Knacker's yard.
IAG would pay millions more just to block Virgin's ambitions in the UK market while telling Stobart to go f-u-c-k themselves should they start providing feed to a competitor.
Others like Ryanair could beat that offer price for pure devilment and still get their money back.
 
JamesCousins
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Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:23 pm

leghorn wrote:
This scoop from Sky makes little sense.
Flybe is worth that and more in the Knacker's yard.
IAG would pay millions more just to block Virgin's ambitions in the UK market while telling Stobart to go f-u-c-k themselves should they start providing feed to a competitor.
Others like Ryanair could beat that offer price for pure devilment and still get their money back.


A bidding war is on the horizon? I suppose the buyer is inheriting a fundamentally consistently unprofitable airline, with an ageing and largely leased fleet which has to be factored into the share price, can't see Ryanair touching it with a barge-pole. Then again has IAG really got anything to gain by purchasing BE (other than blocking VS growth of course), it already operates many of the routes Flybe does, but with larger, more efficient A/C, and on those it doesn't it's hardly because of airport slot restraints :lol:
A320-200, A321-200, 737-500, 737-800, 747-400, 757-200, 787-9
 
leghorn
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Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:29 pm

I could understand the board of directors permitting a leak of a lowball bid to manage expectations of shareholders but they couldn't allow so low a bid to be leaked as it will wipe out the share price in the morning, clear out a fair few shareholders on stop-loss and start a weak bidding war from a very low base. then again their experience of putting a business up for sale is null and they'll be schooled by the buyer.
 
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mercure1
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Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:35 am

Not exactly sure what the go forward business case for the airline is for any prospective purchaser.
mercure f-wtcc
 
Bhoy
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Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:45 am

JamesCousins wrote:
leghorn wrote:
This scoop from Sky makes little sense.
Flybe is worth that and more in the Knacker's yard.
IAG would pay millions more just to block Virgin's ambitions in the UK market while telling Stobart to go f-u-c-k themselves should they start providing feed to a competitor.
Others like Ryanair could beat that offer price for pure devilment and still get their money back.


A bidding war is on the horizon? I suppose the buyer is inheriting a fundamentally consistently unprofitable airline, with an ageing and largely leased fleet which has to be factored into the share price, can't see Ryanair touching it with a barge-pole. Then again has IAG really got anything to gain by purchasing BE (other than blocking VS growth of course), it already operates many of the routes Flybe does, but with larger, more efficient A/C, and on those it doesn't it's hardly because of airport slot restraints :lol:

many? Is it not just a handful - Heathrow to Aberdeen and Edinburgh; London City to Edinburgh, Belfast City, Düsseldorf and Amsterdam?
 
User001
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Re: Updated: VS To Be Largest Shareholder In New Airline Group Comprising BE And RE

Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:10 am

Seems to confirm many suspicions, that this seems to be MAN focused.

The notice only mentions 3 airports:

LHR: Flybe still don’t own the slots outright, and when they do, there still won’t be many slots to create a meaningful connection opportunity.
SEN: likely put in as a clause from Stobart. They will want reassurances that none of their other business will suffer, so, had that clause put in (otherwise seems an odd airport to mention out of the whole BE portfolio).
MAN: VS hub, still growing regardless of this Flybe sale and now have access to literally thousands of slots from Flybe. The slots can be managed to either add better departures on long haul (while not anywhere near the levels of LHR, MAN is still slot controlled at the end of the day). The T2 redevelopment will house a larger transfer facility, so, will finally have the infrastructure to cope with a hub operation (currently houses a Flybe hub but it’s not laid out in the best way right now).

To me, this has got an expanded MAN focus written all over it. Will it work? Well, that will be for future discussions to decide.
 
JamesCousins
Posts: 315
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 1:19 pm

Re: Updated: VS To Be Largest Shareholder In New Airline Group Comprising BE And RE

Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:07 am

Flybe shareholders urged to accept Virgin Atlantic's £2.2m takeover offer:
https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... consortium

I wonder if the offer will be accepted, or whether it's just too low for shareholders? Then again what alternative is there?...
A320-200, A321-200, 737-500, 737-800, 747-400, 757-200, 787-9
 
Boeing74741R
Posts: 954
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:44 am

Re: Updated: VS To Be Largest Shareholder In New Airline Group Comprising BE And RE

Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:20 am

JamesCousins wrote:
Flybe shareholders urged to accept Virgin Atlantic's £2.2m takeover offer:
https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... consortium

I wonder if the offer will be accepted, or whether it's just too low for shareholders? Then again what alternative is there?...


Given the current plight of Flybe and the work that still needs to be done to turn it around, it's probably the best they can hope to receive unless a bidding war somehow breaks out with other suitors or if they want to be seen responsible for putting many people out of work and cutting off lifeline routes because they tried holding out for a bigger ROI on their shares.

If it goes through, VS will have picked it up for a steal and it'll be interesting to hear of their plans, particularly when it comes to feeding MAN in particular (and LHR). Many have been saying for years VS had little feed on the UK side compared to the competition, but they're finally getting it and can develop it with a bit of tweaking and a feasible strategy.
 
WPvsMW
Posts: 1490
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:30 pm

Re: Updated: VS To Be Largest Shareholder In New Airline Group Comprising BE And RE

Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:24 am

With the growth at MAN, EXE is shut out of the race to replace LHR. :duck:
 
leghorn
Posts: 664
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:13 am

Re: Updated: VS To Be Largest Shareholder In New Airline Group Comprising BE And RE

Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:25 am

They Board of Directors sold off real estate and got a loan on a Q400 to get a few weeks breathing space only to recommend selling the company for 2.2 million. I don't know who the Board of Directors are running the company for, not the shareholders.
 
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OA260
Posts: 22996
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Updated: VS To Be Largest Shareholder In New Airline Group Comprising BE And RE

Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:36 am

JamesCousins wrote:
Flybe shareholders urged to accept Virgin Atlantic's £2.2m takeover offer:
https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... consortium

I wonder if the offer will be accepted, or whether it's just too low for shareholders? Then again what alternative is there?...


Maybe the shareholders should quit while they are ahead. Things could get a lot worse for BE.
 
BestWestern
Posts: 8101
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 8:46 pm

Re: Updated: VS To Be Largest Shareholder In New Airline Group Comprising BE And RE

Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:46 am

With the company being valued at less than $3m, I suspect the shareholders will go down the liquidation route. This feels like a ‘sure why not’ from Virgin and Stobart - precious little to lose at such a low valuation.

I suspect the advisory bill will be more than the value of the company - and those same consultants will be proposing a yes to their clients so they can get more advisory revenue in the future.

The biggest risk for virgin is serious distraction from running the airline, being focused on Q400’s in Anglesey, where the offer document outlines they are the biggest airline.
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
AAMDanny
Posts: 266
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 4:06 pm

Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:48 am

chunhimlai wrote:
Will VS start long haul flight in EXE after acquiring Flybe?


Yeah I'm sure they will once the 6 extra runways you suggested are open.
 
LHRFlyer
Posts: 1009
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2010 12:50 pm

Re: Updated: VS To Be Largest Shareholder In New Airline Group Comprising BE And RE

Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:50 am

The shareholders get nothing, but at least this provides for an orderly transition.

A liquidation of the airline would be costly and messy and leave little for creditors.
 
DobboDobbo
Posts: 740
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2016 1:02 am

Re: Updated: VS To Be Largest Shareholder In New Airline Group Comprising BE And RE

Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:53 am

JamesCousins wrote:
Flybe shareholders urged to accept Virgin Atlantic's £2.2m takeover offer:
https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... consortium

I wonder if the offer will be accepted, or whether it's just too low for shareholders? Then again what alternative is there?...


I think shareholders are highly likely to accept.

There is reference in the announcement to credit card companies withholding cash from future bookings for their own security instead of passing it on, which has had a material adverse effect on BE’s cash position.

From the shareholders perspective, it’ll be jump or be pushed (in the latter, I presume insolvent, scenario they’ll rank behind debt and likely get next to nothing).
 
avier
Posts: 327
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:38 pm

Re: Updated: VS To Be Largest Shareholder In New Airline Group Comprising BE And RE

Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:53 am

So what are they going to be rebranded as? BE Virgin Or Virgin BE :D
 
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ClassicLover
Posts: 4532
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 12:27 pm

Re: Updated: VS To Be Largest Shareholder In New Airline Group Comprising BE And RE

Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:00 am

avier wrote:
So what are they going to be rebranded as? BE Virgin Or Virgin BE :D


Haha! Virgin Atlantic from what the news is reporting.
I do enjoy a spot of flying, especially when it's not in economy!
 
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JannEejit
Posts: 1116
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 4:04 pm

Re: Updated: VS To Be Largest Shareholder In New Airline Group Comprising BE And RE

Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:02 am

avier wrote:
So what are they going to be rebranded as? BE Virgin Or Virgin BE :D


They are going to 'BE' Virgin Atlantic according to reports. Some of those Q400's must be getting their 3rd or 4th livery !
 
jomur
Posts: 143
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2016 6:36 pm

Re: Updated: VS To Be Largest Shareholder In New Airline Group Comprising BE And RE

Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:04 am

So why do VS think they can do better than last time they tried to run a domestic airline? I suspect VS will in the long run just strip Flybe of what it wants then shut down the rest. I would be surprised if many of the routes will survive.

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