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CarbonFibre
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Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:30 am

Time to dig this one out again!

CarbonFibre wrote:
Image
 
TheDBCooper
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Re: Updated: VS To Be Largest Shareholder In New Airline Group Comprising BE And RE

Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:31 am

I don't hold high hopes for this deal.
 
axio
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Re: Updated: VS To Be Largest Shareholder In New Airline Group Comprising BE And RE

Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:33 am

Is that really only GBP 2.2 million? That's like buying a country house or something!
I haven't been following, but something must have gone down since their half-year report from 30 September, because that has net assets at 118m and some profitability, albeit in the summer months. Market cap of 35m as well...
Time for a new viewing deck at AKL!
 
thegrew
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Re: Updated: VS To Be Largest Shareholder In New Airline Group Comprising BE And RE

Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:39 am

axio wrote:
Is that really only GBP 2.2 million? That's like buying a country house or something!
I haven't been following, but something must have gone down since their half-year report from 30 September, because that has net assets at 118m and some profitability, albeit in the summer months. Market cap of 35m as well...
I guess from the investers perspective it is the toss up between likely liquidation vs another roll of the dice to see if it could be made profitable again.

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JannEejit
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Re: Updated: VS To Be Largest Shareholder In New Airline Group Comprising BE And RE

Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:48 am

How much of Flybe fleet assets is airline owned versus lessor owned ?
 
Andy33
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Re: Updated: VS To Be Largest Shareholder In New Airline Group Comprising BE And RE

Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:53 am

JannEejit wrote:
How much of Flybe fleet assets is airline owned versus lessor owned ?

100% leased, as far as I know. And some of the leases are on pretty expensive terms, too.
 
leghorn
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Re: Updated: VS To Be Largest Shareholder In New Airline Group Comprising BE And RE

Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:55 am

Not 100% leased. about 90%. Can't remember. read the investor documents on the company website.
 
BestWestern
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Re: Updated: VS To Be Largest Shareholder In New Airline Group Comprising BE And RE

Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:29 am

axio wrote:
Is that really only GBP 2.2 million? That's like buying a country house or something!
I haven't been following, but something must have gone down since their half-year report from 30 September, because that has net assets at 118m and some profitability, albeit in the summer months. Market cap of 35m as well...


This is known as a punt.

They should fire the CEO and directors for accepting such a rubbish offer and trying to save their roles, rather than deliver shareholder value.

Look at Debenhams this week.
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
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GCT64
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Re: Updated: VS To Be Largest Shareholder In New Airline Group Comprising BE And RE

Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:34 am

A lot of good points were in this post, just highlighting one:

3AWM wrote:
VS is a small airline with a big commercial arm - ie it's got a proper FF programme, credit card etc. Taking a stake in Flybe means access to lots more customers in the UK market to sell flights to. FFers can be transfered from Avios to Virgin's programme and VS will have a greater share of corporate air travel. Business travellers don't travel long haul or short haul or domestic they travel a mixture of these, these factors will give VS more leverage to sheel their long haul network, Delta's network going west and in the future AF/KLM's network going east.


It certainly works like that for me: I'm an LHR-EDI and LHR-BOS commuter. VS can now better compete for my business by offering me FF credit for the domestic legs building towards to status for my long-haul legs. Currently I'm Silver on BA and nothing on VS... this gives them the ability to change that and get my GBP instead of it going to BA. To validate that point, when Little Red operated, I was Gold on VS and BA got none of my EDI business but my status and spend wound down after the flights stopped.

So my flight South on FlyBe today will now be on "Virgin Very Little Red"?
Flown in: A30B,A306,A310,A319,A320,A321,A332,A333,A343,A346,A359,A388,BA11,BU31,B190,(..54 more types..),VC10,WESX
 
time2lyme
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Re: Updated: VS To Be Largest Shareholder In New Airline Group Comprising BE And RE

Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:53 am

Just from BBC news...
...the fleet will be rebranded as Virgin Atlantic and intention is to feed LHR and MAN and drop “odd” routes
 
bennett123
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Re: Updated: VS To Be Largest Shareholder In New Airline Group Comprising BE And RE

Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:53 am

IMO, the failure of Little Red is worrying.

Flew them in 2015, up to EDI on Sunday night and back on Friday evening.

The times and price were OK, but the plane was half empty.

Not sure why they will do better this time.
 
PsychoMouse
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Re: Updated: VS To Be Largest Shareholder In New Airline Group Comprising BE And RE

Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:56 am

I’m concerned for the future of their base at BHX. They have a massive presence here.

Or maybe it could go the other way and we finally get somebody back on a proper NYC route?
 
Eirules
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Re: Updated: VS To Be Largest Shareholder In New Airline Group Comprising BE And RE

Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:10 pm

I wonder will we see DUB-LHR/MAN on FlyBe / VS? At present VS are relying on IAG to provide feed from DUB to both MAN & LHR
The way you cut your meat reflects the way you live....
 
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FabDiva
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Re: Updated: VS To Be Largest Shareholder In New Airline Group Comprising BE And RE

Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:19 pm

So if VIR are buying Stobart, what does that mean for Aer Lingus Regional?
 
Mullion
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Re: Updated: VS To Be Largest Shareholder In New Airline Group Comprising BE And RE

Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:22 pm

I read it that Stobart will run as a separate operation
 
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Channex757
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Re: Updated: VS To Be Largest Shareholder In New Airline Group Comprising BE And RE

Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:26 pm

FabDiva wrote:
So if VIR are buying Stobart, what does that mean for Aer Lingus Regional?

They aren't, Stobart are pitching the business in to Connect Airways (the holding company). Stobart Leasing and Charters will continue to operate as a separate unit within Connect..

Virgin will only hold 30% of the new company, Stobart 30% and 40% by a Luxembourg fund. So the title of this thread is factually incorrect. The main thing VS brings to the party is the brand IMO as the FlyBE brand has little ongoing value.
 
Samrnpage
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Re: Updated: VS To Be Largest Shareholder In New Airline Group Comprising BE And RE

Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:26 pm

Reckon airports like Southampton and exeter will have massively reduced services with the new Virgin Atlantic feeder. I see AMS, LHR and MAN to be a few times daily and only the most profitable domestic routes as well as public service routes to remain
 
Boeing74741R
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Re: Updated: VS To Be Largest Shareholder In New Airline Group Comprising BE And RE

Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:33 pm

BestWestern wrote:
axio wrote:
Is that really only GBP 2.2 million? That's like buying a country house or something!
I haven't been following, but something must have gone down since their half-year report from 30 September, because that has net assets at 118m and some profitability, albeit in the summer months. Market cap of 35m as well...


This is known as a punt.

They should fire the CEO and directors for accepting such a rubbish offer and trying to save their roles, rather than deliver shareholder value.

Look at Debenhams this week.


By buying the airline, that would also include any debts and liabilities they have, so would have been factored into the figure being offered. If I was buying a business, I'd take into account debts, liabilities and likely immediate expenditure into the offer. How much do you think it's worth and do you think somebody else is prepared to offer more?

time2lyme wrote:
Just from BBC news...
...the fleet will be rebranded as Virgin Atlantic and intention is to feed LHR and MAN and drop “odd” routes


It'll be interesting to see what routes they have in mind for dropping. I hope it doesn't mean IOM loses its base and routes to LPL, MAN and BHX. At a personal level, I have reason to go to the Isle of Man a few times a year and have used Flybe before. LPL-IOM is a popular route and MAN-IOM can be used to feed the VS long-haul flights, though easyJet also compete with them LPL-IOM (albeit with differing times and not more than twice a day). I wonder if the Manx Government are watching developments closely and seeking assurances over the future of their services to IOM?

As a side note, will this be the final thing needed for VS to open a Clubhouse at MAN and a big step towards year-round service/increased frequencies to BOS and LAX?
 
BAorNoWay
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Re: Updated: VS To Be Largest Shareholder In New Airline Group Comprising BE And RE

Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:36 pm

[*]
FabDiva wrote:
So if VIR are buying Stobart, what does that mean for Aer Lingus Regional?


What does it mean for the wet leasing deal they currently have with BA CityFlyer?

Also, the frequent flyer programme as Flybe uses Avios so this could be a big loss for IAG in terms of business travellers.

It’s certainly an interesting proposition they are offering, but they are going to have to seriously cut back the existing route offering and get rid of those expensive leases.

Virgin Atlantic struggles to make a profit on its operations even in the best of years, Flybe has also struggled with profitability for some time and the current economic/political climate will only add pressure. Stobart Air certainly seems to be doing a better job. This deal would not be possible without the financing from the venture capitalists, I just hope their money is well spent as the amounts being talked about will quickly get burnt through.

Above everything else, I wish this new venture success for all the lovely employees Flybe has who are hard working and dedicated to the company, and also for the millions of travellers who use Flybe every day.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Updated: VS To Be Largest Shareholder In New Airline Group Comprising BE And RE

Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:52 pm

Boeing74741R wrote:
BestWestern wrote:
axio wrote:
Is that really only GBP 2.2 million? That's like buying a country house or something!
I haven't been following, but something must have gone down since their half-year report from 30 September, because that has net assets at 118m and some profitability, albeit in the summer months. Market cap of 35m as well...


This is known as a punt.

They should fire the CEO and directors for accepting such a rubbish offer and trying to save their roles, rather than deliver shareholder value.

Look at Debenhams this week.


By buying the airline, that would also include any debts and liabilities they have, so would have been factored into the figure being offered.


M&A bankers know that as enterprise value. Maybe they calculate fees on that rather than purchase price. But yes, a heavily burdened, asset-lite business (90% leased fleet, said above) without much history of profit isn't going to attract a high purchase price. (Unless it's Silicon Valley and you're just buying an idea!)
 
Bhoy
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Re: Updated: VS To Be Largest Shareholder In New Airline Group Comprising BE And RE

Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:54 pm

BestWestern wrote:
The biggest risk for virgin is serious distraction from running the airline, being focused on Q400’s in Anglesey, where the offer document outlines they are the biggest airline.

There are no Q400s in Anglesey - the twice daily (Mon-Fri only) service to Cardiff (which makes it the biggest/only Airline operating at VLY) is a PSO service operated by Franchise partner Eastern Airways with Jetstream 41s.
 
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GCT64
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Re: Updated: VS To Be Largest Shareholder In New Airline Group Comprising BE And RE

Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:57 pm

time2lyme wrote:
Just from BBC news...
...the fleet will be rebranded as Virgin Atlantic and intention is to feed LHR and MAN and drop “odd” routes


That's got be worryingly uncertain for people who rely on FlyBe's flights on routes such as SOU-EDI.
Flown in: A30B,A306,A310,A319,A320,A321,A332,A333,A343,A346,A359,A388,BA11,BU31,B190,(..54 more types..),VC10,WESX
 
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JannEejit
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Re: Updated: VS To Be Largest Shareholder In New Airline Group Comprising BE And RE

Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:00 pm

GCT64 wrote:
time2lyme wrote:
Just from BBC news...
...the fleet will be rebranded as Virgin Atlantic and intention is to feed LHR and MAN and drop “odd” routes


That's got be worryingly uncertain for people who rely on FlyBe's flights on routes such as SOU-EDI.


I'm sure the likes of Loganair and FlyBmi are looking on with interested faces.
 
SotonLAX
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Re: Updated: VS To Be Largest Shareholder In New Airline Group Comprising BE And RE

Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:11 pm

Can’t see why anyone would be concerned about SOU given that all the services and BE operations at the airport are said to be profitable in its own right? Surely VS wouldn’t to throw that away. Also Southampton already has a strong Virgin association given the sponsorship of the football team ect.
 
thegrew
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Re: Updated: VS To Be Largest Shareholder In New Airline Group Comprising BE And RE

Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:14 pm

I think if I was in charge of Flybe following acquisition I would probably look to shave these UK airports from the route network.
-Liverpool, network is already duplicated out of Manchester which is a much better feeder airport.
-Bristol, in favour of Cardiff (already duplication)
-East Midlands, in favour of Birmingham (already duplication)
-Leeds Bradford in favour of Manchester
-Edinburgh or Glasgow as I am not convinced on the requirement to serve both, I would probably opt for Edinburgh is the airport is the 'right' side of the city for Glasgow with fairly good public transport links.

I appreciate these would be quite major cuts but would hopefully get the airline back to a profitable core.

I don't know which of the European routes are profitable but they should also be reviewed.

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thegrew
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Re: Updated: VS To Be Largest Shareholder In New Airline Group Comprising BE And RE

Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:19 pm

SotonLAX wrote:
Can’t see why anyone would be concerned about SOU given that all the services and BE operations at the airport are said to be profitable in its own right? Surely VS wouldn’t to throw that away. Also Southampton already has a strong Virgin association given the sponsorship of the football team ect.
I can't see SOU going either. The fact is that due to runway length (only 200m/600ft longer than LCY) none of the big LCC can fly bigger jets in without weight restriction so competition is fairly limited. This may change if the runway gets extended however which if often mentioned locally.

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BrianDromey
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Re: Updated: VS To Be Largest Shareholder In New Airline Group Comprising BE And RE

Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:24 pm

My understanding is that what is currently flyBe will continue under its own management, independent of VS. While They will use the VS brand for their at-risk operations, they will also fly for SK, as Connect. Stobart will fly for Aer Lingus and whatever’s left out of SEN will surely become Virgin too.

I don’t think there will be dramatic network changes initially. My guess is they hope the VS brand will drive more traffic to the flyBe business and they will take things from there, like the Aer Lingus Regional franchise transformed RE in a similar deal. Connections at MAN and LHR will help, but the terminal transfers are a disadvantage. EI used to offer busses to the flight connections centre for ROI arrivals, so Virgin could do that. With airport agreement they could have a bus from plane-side to T3 departures, no re-screening or document checks are required.
 
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TPX101
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Re: Updated: VS To Be Largest Shareholder In New Airline Group Comprising BE And RE

Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:47 pm

bennett123 wrote:
IMO, the failure of Little Red is worrying.

Flew them in 2015, up to EDI on Sunday night and back on Friday evening.

The times and price were OK, but the plane was half empty.

Not sure why they will do better this time.

It was probably a combination of things: aircraft too big for the routes they were going for, something that Q400 may potentially resolve, fuel efficiency of the A320 from EI lease, the limited routes that Little Red was serving, the fact that it was a lease agreement with EI added additional cost. Perhaps, a fleet of smaller and more fuel efficient aircrafts that will serve a wider range of locations is what VS needs to make VS/Little Red domestic services a viability.

Owning the fleet (or a share) will allow control and say in the matter, the fact that it's an existing airline means there's no new upstart cost for VS and Stobart has experience operating turbojets so know how to keep cost low, pooled with existing BE management (or what's left of it once acquisition is complete).

BE also do serve numerous European destinations too, giving customers all over the Europe market access to either AMS, CDG or LHR to the Americas and Asia/Australasia in a more streamline interline connections.

Q400 imo does look good with VS livery, especially in feeder airports like Belfast City.

However, it is a concern in terms of length of initial Little Red operations, and I do hope with this new colloboration with Stobart, VS would be less naive when it comes to domestic/intra-Europe operations and will last a long time.
Last edited by TPX101 on Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
3AWM
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Re: Updated: VS To Be Largest Shareholder In New Airline Group Comprising BE And RE

Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:53 pm

bennett123 wrote:
IMO, the failure of Little Red is worrying.

Flew them in 2015, up to EDI on Sunday night and back on Friday evening.

The times and price were OK, but the plane was half empty.

Not sure why they will do better this time.


They will be doing the same but with a plane half the size, so it should be full.
 
bennett123
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Re: Updated: VS To Be Largest Shareholder In New Airline Group Comprising BE And RE

Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:11 pm

However BA fly EDI to LHR with A319 and it works for them.
 
BrianDromey
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Re: Updated: VS To Be Largest Shareholder In New Airline Group Comprising BE And RE

Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:23 pm

TPX101 wrote:
Perhaps, a fleet of smaller and more fuel efficient aircrafts that will serve a wider range of locations is what VS needs to make VS/Little Red domestic services a viability.

Owning the fleet (or a share) will allow control and say in the matter, the fact that it's an existing airline means there's no new upstart cost for VS and Stobart has experience operating turbojets so know how to keep cost low.

BE also do serve numerous European destinations too, giving customers all over the Europe market access to either AMS, CDG or LHR to the Americas and Asia/Australasia in a more streamline interline connections.


From LHR Virgin will (re-)gain EDI and ABZ, NQY will be new, but last time they had MAN. There is some scope for additional routes/frequencies at LHR by using slots from VS themselves (they have some leased out) and possibly AF/KL/DL - although I think the AF/KL slot-pool has been drained quite a bit already by DL. Even as part of a larger group there are limited possibilities for growth at LHR. VS/Connect might be well positioned to get a number of slots from the proposed increase in slots prior to R3 and, of course from R3 itself. Heathrow wants to demonstrate that domestic routes are big winners when Heathrow expands, the NQY route transferring from LGW is part of this, I'm sure.

KLM has a very impressive UK network operating from ABZ, BHD, BHX, BRS, CWL, MME, EDI, GLA, HUY, INV, LBA, LCY, LHR, MNA, NCL, NWI. Additionally DSA ,EMA,EXT,SOU are BE operated codeshares. Connect may take over some KLM Cityhopper flying to enable KL to increase service elsewhere, which might also improve yield for BE.
 
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CarbonFibre
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Re: Updated: VS To Be Largest Shareholder In New Airline Group Comprising BE And RE

Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:25 pm

Skyliner report the new airline will be called flyV. Not seen this mentioned elsewhere.

www.skyliner-aviation.de
 
cityshuttle
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Re: Updated: VS To Be Largest Shareholder In New Airline Group Comprising BE And RE

Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:35 pm

time2lyme wrote:
Just from BBC news...
...the fleet will be rebranded as Virgin Atlantic and intention is to feed LHR and MAN and drop “odd” routes


CarbonFibre wrote:
Skyliner report the new airline will be called flyV. Not seen this mentioned elsewhere.

http://www.skyliner-aviation.de


Maybe it is about time to re-brand entire VS as „Virgin Europe“ or „Virgin Britain“ as they are also flying to places in South Africa, India, Asia and not solely across the Atlantic from UK.

[give it a more regional touch as VA has and formerly VX had]
 
konkret
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Re: Updated: VS To Be Largest Shareholder In New Airline Group Comprising BE And RE

Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:02 pm

Stobart Air is also to be included in the new venture - what effect could it have on its flights operated for EI?
Will the VS owned airline operate flights to feed IAG’s hub in DUB?
 
VictorKilo
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Re: Updated: VS To Be Largest Shareholder In New Airline Group Comprising BE And RE

Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:23 pm

I don't expect there to be an issue with VS being the largest shareholder but not a majority owner of a regional flying under the Virgin and Aer Lingus brands. YX, after its bankruptcy, is partially owned by all 3 of the majors and does regional flying for all three.

Also, with VS having a Delta and Sky Team connection, I would not be surprised to see flyV codeshare with AF and KL on its network to Paris and Amsterdam,and flights from regional French airports to the UK.
 
UAL777UK
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Re: Updated: VS To Be Largest Shareholder In New Airline Group Comprising BE And RE

Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:33 pm

GCT64 wrote:
time2lyme wrote:
Just from BBC news...
...the fleet will be rebranded as Virgin Atlantic and intention is to feed LHR and MAN and drop “odd” routes


That's got be worryingly uncertain for people who rely on FlyBe's flights on routes such as SOU-EDI.


I sure hope they stick with SOU-EDI. Have flown that route a number of times. The simplicity of jumping on a train from Reading, jumping off at the airport and literally being at the gate in minutes beats the hassle of LHR etc. The flights I have been on have always been generally busy so I am hoping that yields are holding up enough for it to be kept. Time will tell.
 
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enilria
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Re: Updated: VS To Be Largest Shareholder In New Airline Group Comprising BE And RE

Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:48 pm

BrianDromey wrote:
TPX101 wrote:
Perhaps, a fleet of smaller and more fuel efficient aircrafts that will serve a wider range of locations is what VS needs to make VS/Little Red domestic services a viability.

Owning the fleet (or a share) will allow control and say in the matter, the fact that it's an existing airline means there's no new upstart cost for VS and Stobart has experience operating turbojets so know how to keep cost low.

BE also do serve numerous European destinations too, giving customers all over the Europe market access to either AMS, CDG or LHR to the Americas and Asia/Australasia in a more streamline interline connections.


From LHR Virgin will (re-)gain EDI and ABZ, NQY will be new, but last time they had MAN. There is some scope for additional routes/frequencies at LHR by using slots from VS themselves (they have some leased out) and possibly AF/KL/DL - although I think the AF/KL slot-pool has been drained quite a bit already by DL. Even as part of a larger group there are limited possibilities for growth at LHR. VS/Connect might be well positioned to get a number of slots from the proposed increase in slots prior to R3 and, of course from R3 itself. Heathrow wants to demonstrate that domestic routes are big winners when Heathrow expands, the NQY route transferring from LGW is part of this, I'm sure.

KLM has a very impressive UK network operating from ABZ, BHD, BHX, BRS, CWL, MME, EDI, GLA, HUY, INV, LBA, LCY, LHR, MNA, NCL, NWI. Additionally DSA ,EMA,EXT,SOU are BE operated codeshares. Connect may take over some KLM Cityhopper flying to enable KL to increase service elsewhere, which might also improve yield for BE.

The question I posed on the other dead thread is this...

ARE they allowed to trade times between this slot pool and their existing portfolio? If so they likely did this not for connectivity, but for the ability to turn VS hodge-podge slot portfolio into something more closely akin to connecting banks. I know for a fact that is what DL has been most aggressive/frustrated about trying to fix at VS. If they are not allowed to do that because the slots are off-limits to trades then I will concede it is just for regional connectivity, but that would be small potatoes compared to being able to bank the existing VS operation and I'm surprised DL risked its capital for that effort.
 
factsonly
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Re: Updated: VS To Be Largest Shareholder In New Airline Group Comprising BE And RE

Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:25 pm

FlyBe has net assets at 118m !!

In addition to paying UKP 2.2 Million for FlyBe, the press also states:

'The consortium (Virgin Atlantic, Stobart, Cyrus Capital) will provide a 20 million pound bridging loan facility to support Flybe's working capital requirements and up to 80 million pounds of funding would be made available once the deal was completed.'

This makes a total investment of 102.2 Milion for FlyBe.

Much closer to the net asset value.

https://uk.investing.com/news/stock-mar ... on-1422272
 
leghorn
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Re: Updated: VS To Be Largest Shareholder In New Airline Group Comprising BE And RE

Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:36 pm

They just sold slots in Gatwick to Vueling for 4.5M. They are committing the company to the buyout for 1p per share even before the shareholders get a chance to vote on it.
 
leghorn
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Re: Updated: VS To Be Largest Shareholder In New Airline Group Comprising BE And RE

Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:43 pm

It is like they are doing a voluntary windup with no intention of returning anything to shareholders.
 
TC957
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Re: Updated: VS To Be Largest Shareholder In New Airline Group Comprising BE And RE

Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:52 pm

Another thought that crossed my mind is the fate of Blue Islands, operating as a FlyBe Franchisee currently.
If the new FlyV reduce their presence in JER & GCI, an opportunity to re-establish themselves as an independent airline ? Or opportunities for Aurigny to expand ? I'm sure the Channel Island business community are watching event closely.
 
Jetty
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Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:56 pm

leghorn wrote:
while IAG may not have wanted to bid on FlyBE they might be enticed now as FlyBE falling in to a competitor's hands may direct profitable traffic away from their main bases in the UK.
Long term Virgin might be the most honest purchaser for FlyBE and keep it running most successfully but the objective for Management is to realise the highest sale price for FlyBE for shareholders who will be forced to sell their shareholding. It would be hard to argue with a higher bid from IAG or Easyjet.

Ryanair will stay out of it I think even though it is pocket money for them as they are eating huge losses on Laudamotion at the moment and it is enough of a distraction in itself already.

Disclosure: I have 89,000 shares in FlyBe bought at about 11 or 12 pence.

May I ask if you'll vote in favor of this deal?
 
Bhoy
Posts: 232
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 1:50 pm

Re: Updated: VS To Be Largest Shareholder In New Airline Group Comprising BE And RE

Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:05 pm

TC957 wrote:
Another thought that crossed my mind is the fate of Blue Islands, operating as a FlyBe Franchisee currently.
If the new FlyV reduce their presence in JER & GCI, an opportunity to re-establish themselves as an independent airline ? Or opportunities for Aurigny to expand ? I'm sure the Channel Island business community are watching event closely.

Same story for Eastern Airways, who currently just operate as a Franchisee.
 
leghorn
Posts: 664
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:13 am

Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:13 pm

Jetty wrote:
leghorn wrote:
while IAG may not have wanted to bid on FlyBE they might be enticed now as FlyBE falling in to a competitor's hands may direct profitable traffic away from their main bases in the UK.
Long term Virgin might be the most honest purchaser for FlyBE and keep it running most successfully but the objective for Management is to realise the highest sale price for FlyBE for shareholders who will be forced to sell their shareholding. It would be hard to argue with a higher bid from IAG or Easyjet.

Ryanair will stay out of it I think even though it is pocket money for them as they are eating huge losses on Laudamotion at the moment and it is enough of a distraction in itself already.

Disclosure: I have 89,000 shares in FlyBe bought at about 11 or 12 pence.

May I ask if you'll vote in favor of this deal?

No. I don't need the 1p per share that badly but IAG buying slots at Gatwick probably means they are not going to be the white Knight that is needed.
 
leghorn
Posts: 664
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:13 am

Re: Updated: VS To Be Largest Shareholder In New Airline Group Comprising BE And RE

Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:33 pm

4.5million for slots pays for the loan that they got on one of the few Q400 that they got a few weeks ago which means that the company being delivered in to Virgin's hands has less debt than it otherwise would have had.
I made my investment on the assumption that a Board of Directors operating towards the interests of the shareholders could at the very least go in to voluntary liquidation and return value of the constituent parts of the company to the Shareholders.
Corporate Governance is lacking here.

I was wrong but I can afford it. Board of Directors have disappointed me.
This is the exact opposite of share losses I've incurred elsewhere where a CEO who promised the market consistently over the last couple of years that he wouldn't do any more high profile purchases bought a company for 4 times what the analysts thought it was worth and twice what they expected it to IPO for. Lost more on that one but maybe that share price might recover.
I'm in that share until the bitter end and I'm in FlyBE share until the bitter end. I would have been quite happy for FlyBe to get its house in order and continue as a standalone company. I wasn't a vulture hovering over a carcass.
 
3AWM
Posts: 100
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2016 1:01 pm

Re: Updated: VS To Be Largest Shareholder In New Airline Group Comprising BE And RE

Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:35 pm

I think this is the only deal in town. The fact that Virgin and Stobart, the most interested parties, have teamed up makes a bidding war unlikely.

Also it's not like Willy Walsh turned on Sky News today and learned about this, Flybe's advisors will have already tried to play off all of the interested parties including IAG before it got to making an announcement.

Once the Newquay route went to LHR they were always going to try and sell those slots as they don't have any other presence at LGW.
 
User avatar
OA260
Posts: 22996
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:51 pm

CarbonFibre wrote:
Time to dig this one out again!

CarbonFibre wrote:
Image


That does look pretty good on it though .
 
Andy33
Posts: 2249
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:30 am

Re: Updated: VS To Be Largest Shareholder In New Airline Group Comprising BE And RE

Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:02 pm

bennett123 wrote:
However BA fly EDI to LHR with A319 and it works for them.

Some of the flights use A319s. Others use A320 and A321s and until recently, even 767s. Yesterday there were 3 flights with A319s, 2 flights with A320s and 2 with A321s.
BA are replacing many of their A319s with A320/321neos this year (10) and next year (at least 5) so a lot of A319 rotations will inevitably get upgauged.
 
62k64k
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 3:56 pm

Re: Updated: VS To Be Largest Shareholder In New Airline Group Comprising BE And RE

Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:27 pm

Just an additional point on the finances of FLYBE; they have around £150m of debt made up of around £130m long term and around £20m short term, the latter was getting increasing difficult for the company to refinance hence why there was an immediate cash injection (loan) of £20m, without that they wouldn't have been able to operate in the short term and hence why the sale price starts to make sense (along with the £130m of long term debt that the consortium will take on).

Also, additional cash flow of £4.5m has been raised by FLYBE, this announced just before mkt close today (11 Jan).

Flybe Group PLC ("Flybe" or the "Group")

Slot Transaction at Gatwick Airport

Flybe Group plc announces that today Flybe Limited, a wholly-owned subsidiary, signed an agreement with Vueling Airlines S.A. (the "Agreement") to receive a total of £4,500,000 (four-and-a-half-million pounds) in respect of slots at London Gatwick Airport. The funds will be paid in two tranches, being receivable in the next few days in respect of slots to be used during the Summer Season in 2019 and for subsequent Summer Seasons. The remainder is due in June 2019 in respect of slots to be used during the Winter Season in 2019/20 and subsequent Winter Seasons.


@MODS, please may the title be amended? VS will be a 30% holder along with Stobart Group. Cyrus Capital will own the remaining 40%. Note all subject to shareholder approval.
 
BrianDromey
Posts: 2299
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2006 2:23 am

Re: Updated: VS To Be Largest Shareholder In New Airline Group Comprising BE And RE

Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:29 pm

CarbonFibre wrote:
Skyliner report the new airline will be called flyV. Not seen this mentioned elsewhere.

http://www.skyliner-aviation.de


I can't see any mention of this 'flyV' brand anywhere. The press release specifically mentions "Virgin Atlantic" as the brand. It seems pointless if flyBe UK is going to operate as Virgin Atlantic, rather than a quasi-independent sister brand, like Pacific Blue and VAustralia were. The new parent entity is Connect Airways. Connect Airways is an odd choice for a holding company and implies operation under that name. If there is any renaming I would expect Connect Airways to be used, it is sufficiently bland but descriptive of what RE and BE do, while not being tied to a specific country or parent. "Virgin Atlantic/Aer Lingus Regional/SAS, operated by Connect Airways"
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