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CLTRampRat
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Article: AA Flight Attendant Told the CEO: Our Standards 'Suck' Compared With United's and Delta's.

Sun Nov 25, 2018 11:17 pm

Ok, I didn’t intend to keep making threads over this however this one seemed to warrant its own.

Whew.

It seems in a recent meeting Doug Parker compared AA to Delta and United, only for a flight attendant to tell him “Our Standards Suck!”

As always with sensationalist journalism take it with a grain of salt:
https://www.inc.com/bill-murphy-jr/an-american-airlines-flight-attendant-told-ceo-our-standards-suck-compared-to-united-delta-his-reply-was-even-more-shocking.html
Last edited by SQ22 on Mon Nov 26, 2018 5:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Title was unclear
 
MIflyer12
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Re: “Our Standards Suck!”

Sun Nov 25, 2018 11:54 pm

"You keep comparing us to Delta. That's a mistake. American Airlines never compared themselves to another airline. American Airlines always set the standards and the other airlines copied us," the pilot said in an April employee forum, according to Leff.

That's a pilot who's had decades of drinking the kool-aid. Anyone can look at objective performance criteria - IDB, on-time rate, flight completion rate, missing/delayed baggage rate, DOT complaint rate - and recognize that AA hasn't led the industry for a long, long time.
 
SeaDoo
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Re: “Our Standards Suck!”

Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:03 am

For someone who typically flies in coach, my experience has been DL has been better than AA in service at least since September 11th.
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: “Our Standards Suck!”

Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:08 am

SeaDoo wrote:

For someone who typically flies in coach, my experience has been DL has been better than AA in service at least since September 11th.


For me its DL or WN. I flew AA last year to from STL to GCM via MIA on the dreaded 319, and incrementally upgraded each leg to Y+. I went to the back lav on one flight and noticed the sardine seating in regular Y. There was a time when AA was the standard by which all the other US carriers were compared to, but those days are gone.
Next up: STL DEN PSP DEN STL
 
ImperialEagle
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Re: “Our Standards Suck!”

Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:31 am

The masses just want a cheap seat on the bus, and, that's what they get. It took a long time to dumb-down the public,though, because a few generations needed to pass before people didn't know what economy flying USED to be like.
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
 
kiowa
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Re: “Our Standards Suck!”

Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:41 am

OzarkD9S wrote:
SeaDoo wrote:

For someone who typically flies in coach, my experience has been DL has been better than AA in service at least since September 11th.


For me its DL or WN. I flew AA last year to from STL to GCM via MIA on the dreaded 319, and incrementally upgraded each leg to Y+. I went to the back lav on one flight and noticed the sardine seating in regular Y. There was a time when AA was the standard by which all the other US carriers were compared to, but those days are gone.



It's all about past experiences. I would take AA over DL anytime and I Never fly on WN if at all possible.
 
EvanWSFO
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Re: “Our Standards Suck!”

Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:45 am

Isn't there already a thread about AA's sucky service?
I have been on this site 15 years. A unrecoverable email account led me to starting over. Those of you who call me a rookie, you may stop ok?
 
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CLTRampRat
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Re: “Our Standards Suck!”

Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:49 am

EvanWSFO wrote:
Isn't there already a thread about AA's sucky service?


There is and I started that one as well.
 
kalvado
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Re: “Our Standards Suck!”

Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:51 am

ImperialEagle wrote:
The masses just want a cheap seat on the bus, and, that's what they get. It took a long time to dumb-down the public,though, because a few generations needed to pass before people didn't know what economy flying USED to be like.

I am OK with a seat on a bus as long as it gets me from A to B. Bus misconnects and lost luggage are not profit centers for the airline and a great source of irritation for pax.
 
EvanWSFO
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Re: “Our Standards Suck!”

Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:05 am

CLTRampRat wrote:
EvanWSFO wrote:
Isn't there already a thread about AA's sucky service?


There is and I started that one as well.


Just what we need. More threads on the same subject. As a 10+ year veteran of a.net, it's becoming monotonous.
I have been on this site 15 years. A unrecoverable email account led me to starting over. Those of you who call me a rookie, you may stop ok?
 
pipeafcr
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Re: “Our Standards Suck!”

Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:17 am

EvanWSFO wrote:
CLTRampRat wrote:
EvanWSFO wrote:
Isn't there already a thread about AA's sucky service?


There is and I started that one as well.


Just what we need. More threads on the same subject. As a 10+ year veteran of a.net, it's becoming monotonous.


Hopefully they won't die as they serve as a constant reminder that there is room for improvements and not to settle for just what we're given
Felipe Carrillo
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: “Our Standards Suck!”

Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:23 am

pipeafcr wrote:
EvanWSFO wrote:
CLTRampRat wrote:

There is and I started that one as well.


Just what we need. More threads on the same subject. As a 10+ year veteran of a.net, it's becoming monotonous.


Hopefully they won't die as they serve as a constant reminder that there is room for improvements and not to settle for just what we're given


Having multiple threads on the same topic achieves what exactly? Will AA improve if we only start another thread? Unless the other thread is ancient or locked it’s generally best to keep us all on the same page. Maybe this particular instance deserves its own though.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
Max Q
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Re: “Our Standards Suck!”

Mon Nov 26, 2018 2:05 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
"You keep comparing us to Delta. That's a mistake. American Airlines never compared themselves to another airline. American Airlines always set the standards and the other airlines copied us," the pilot said in an April employee forum, according to Leff.

That's a pilot who's had decades of drinking the kool-aid. Anyone can look at objective performance criteria - IDB, on-time rate, flight completion rate, missing/delayed baggage rate, DOT complaint rate - and recognize that AA hasn't led the industry for a long, long time.




That’s his point !
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
EvanWSFO
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Re: “Our Standards Suck!”

Mon Nov 26, 2018 2:25 am

I would fly Frontier before I set foot on another AA flight. They have been in decline for years. They just don't give a flip about their customers. If they keep it up, there may be a new airline supplant them as part of the US3.
I have been on this site 15 years. A unrecoverable email account led me to starting over. Those of you who call me a rookie, you may stop ok?
 
rigo
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Re: “Our Standards Suck!”

Mon Nov 26, 2018 2:31 am

What I don't really understand is how can US-based airlines afford being such a joke, and get away with it? Over the past couple of months I flew SYD-LAX (and back) with Delta, and SYD-CDG through AUH (and back) with Etihad. There is simply no comparison possible. Whether it's comfort on board, quality of the meals, delay management and keeping you informed (there were delays with both airlines) or simply the general pleasantness and attitude of the cabin crew, it's really a different world. I don't know what United and AA are like, if you believe what's said in many forums then Delta seems actually to be considered better, but from the point of view of someone who subscribes to this strange rumour that there are actually airlines and even airports outside of the USA ;-), I can say that it wouldn't fly (pun intended) anywhere else. Here in Oz, VA, Qantas and JetStar are not exactly stellar either, but flying in the US really looks like what would expect in a Third World country.
 
IPFreely
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Re: “Our Standards Suck!”

Mon Nov 26, 2018 2:56 am

rigo wrote:
I don't know what United and AA are like, if you believe what's said in many forums then Delta seems actually to be considered better, but from the point of view of someone who subscribes to this strange rumour that there are actually airlines and even airports outside of the USA ;-), I can say that it wouldn't fly (pun intended) anywhere else. Here in Oz, VA, Qantas and JetStar are not exactly stellar either, but flying in the US really looks like what would expect in a Third World country.


You answered your own question about believing what is said in forums about Delta being better than United or American. For whatever reason Delta has a lot of fanboys who keep posting this, but that doesn't make it true. In fact, it's quite false. If you want a truly horrific experience not just with regard to service but also for delays, missed connections, and cancellations, take a trip to the US and try flying some domestic connecting flights with Delta Connection! Just make sure you aren't travelling anywhere where you positively have to be at your destination on time!
 
EvanWSFO
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Re: “Our Standards Suck!”

Mon Nov 26, 2018 3:01 am

IPFreely wrote:
rigo wrote:
I don't know what United and AA are like, if you believe what's said in many forums then Delta seems actually to be considered better, but from the point of view of someone who subscribes to this strange rumour that there are actually airlines and even airports outside of the USA ;-), I can say that it wouldn't fly (pun intended) anywhere else. Here in Oz, VA, Qantas and JetStar are not exactly stellar either, but flying in the US really looks like what would expect in a Third World country.


You answered your own question about believing what is said in forums about Delta being better than United or American. For whatever reason Delta has a lot of fanboys who keep posting this, but that doesn't make it true. In fact, it's quite false. If you want a truly horrific experience not just with regard to service but also for delays, missed connections, and cancellations, take a trip to the US and try flying some domestic connecting flights with Delta Connection! Just make sure you aren't travelling anywhere where you positively have to be at your destination on time!



The flying public does not read these threads. U.S. carriers get way with lousy service because people want to fly as cheap as possible. Front line employees don't care, and they offer shitty service. That's why you won't see U.S. carriers rank alongside international carriers based on service. I basically fly two carriers that seem far above the rest - DL and WN. At least they seem to care about their customers.
I have been on this site 15 years. A unrecoverable email account led me to starting over. Those of you who call me a rookie, you may stop ok?
 
DiamondFlyer
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Re: “Our Standards Suck!”

Mon Nov 26, 2018 3:03 am

IPFreely wrote:
rigo wrote:
I don't know what United and AA are like, if you believe what's said in many forums then Delta seems actually to be considered better, but from the point of view of someone who subscribes to this strange rumour that there are actually airlines and even airports outside of the USA ;-), I can say that it wouldn't fly (pun intended) anywhere else. Here in Oz, VA, Qantas and JetStar are not exactly stellar either, but flying in the US really looks like what would expect in a Third World country.


You answered your own question about believing what is said in forums about Delta being better than United or American. For whatever reason Delta has a lot of fanboys who keep posting this, but that doesn't make it true. In fact, it's quite false. If you want a truly horrific experience not just with regard to service but also for delays, missed connections, and cancellations, take a trip to the US and try flying some domestic connecting flights with Delta Connection! Just make sure you aren't travelling anywhere where you positively have to be at your destination on time!


And yet you constant falsely accuse DCI of being such a terrible operation, when in fact, DCI is better than any Eagle or United Express offering out there. Delta is moving to improve their product, as they've dropped 1 carrier and are rumored to be dropping 2 more in the coming years. You're the inverse of a fanboy about Delta.
From my cold, dead hands
 
Ziyulu
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Re: “Our Standards Suck!”

Mon Nov 26, 2018 3:45 am

I want to say DL is the best of the Big 3. AA and UA got rid of snacks at one point in time, but not DL.
 
Ziyulu
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Re: “Our Standards Suck!”

Mon Nov 26, 2018 3:46 am

I'd say Chinese carriers offer way better service than the US 3. You get hot meals on one hour flights with no charge for checked bags.
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: “Our Standards Suck!”

Mon Nov 26, 2018 3:57 am

If an airline can make a fair and decent profit serving hot meals on one hour flights, having free bags, handling delays better, offering more amenities, etc, then more power to them. Each airline has their own cost structure, contracts, regulations, and “assistance” so comparing them financially can be a challenge. All I know is that in the US the industry has been to Hell and back. If they are finally making money as a group while not being world class, I’m good with that.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: “Our Standards Suck!”

Mon Nov 26, 2018 4:01 am

Isn't this all preference anyway? I mean, I prefer UA (Ive held status with both DL and AA at various points) but when people tell me they prefer AA or DL its not a shock or anything.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
kabq737
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Re: “Our Standards Suck!”

Mon Nov 26, 2018 4:47 am

kiowa wrote:
OzarkD9S wrote:
SeaDoo wrote:

For someone who typically flies in coach, my experience has been DL has been better than AA in service at least since September 11th.


For me its DL or WN. I flew AA last year to from STL to GCM via MIA on the dreaded 319, and incrementally upgraded each leg to Y+. I went to the back lav on one flight and noticed the sardine seating in regular Y. There was a time when AA was the standard by which all the other US carriers were compared to, but those days are gone.



It's all about past experiences. I would take AA over DL anytime and I Never fly on WN if at all possible.

It’s funny how personal experience shapes spending habits. I avoid WN as much as a possibly can as well due to multiple bad service incidents with them. I’ve had many good service experiences with UA and therefore I tend to fly them more. The statistics may not agree but my personal experience has shaped my preferences more than the statistics.
Been on: 320, 321, 333, 733, 73G, 738, 739, 744, 752, 763, 764, 772, 789, C208, CR7, CR9, BE20, MD83, MD88, MD90, E70, E75, E90, TRIM
Flown: SEEKER, C150M C172N, C172R, C172S, C182RG, DA40, PA-46
 
DylanHarvey
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Re: “Our Standards Suck!”

Mon Nov 26, 2018 4:50 am

It is all preference, and predicated on past experiences. I am going to pick Delta 9 times out of 10, because I have consistently had good experiences on them, and not so much on AA and UA. Being honest though I do feel Ed Bastian and DL have done a better job a better job of making a customer friendly product in Y and Y+ and J, and I am looking forward to flying the PS on the A350 or the retrofitted 777's.
 
Cubsrule
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Re: “Our Standards Suck!”

Mon Nov 26, 2018 5:15 am

Ziyulu wrote:
I'd say Chinese carriers offer way better service than the US 3. You get hot meals on one hour flights with no charge for checked bags.


Why exactly does a hot meal mean “better service?” Meals are fine but they are one of many components of service. When they are of questionable quality, they are an even less important component.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: “Our Standards Suck!”

Mon Nov 26, 2018 5:40 am

That's what happens when you allow the baggage from Useless Airways to run the show.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: “Our Standards Suck!”

Mon Nov 26, 2018 6:03 am

ImperialEagle wrote:
because a few generations needed to pass before people didn't know what economy flying USED to be like.

Sure, but what you're omitting (for whatever reason) is that they also don't know what the PRICE to fly in that era used to be like, as well.

There's a reason we saw the enormous surges in travel in the early '80s, and again in the mid '90s; they were the first time that most people (and even low level business persons) could AFFORD to fly.

If the average price of a JFK-LAX ticket circa 1978 had inflated similarly to the price of milk over 40yrs, then coach on that route would be damn near $2K today.
If coach travelers were still paying fares like *that*, then airlines could justify having cocktail lounges and full meals, on 2hr flights outfitted to carry sub-80% of today's typical seating density.




rigo wrote:
What I don't really understand is how can US-based airlines afford being such a joke, and get away with it?

All that's saying is that you don't have particularly adept deductive capabilities.... it's not a difficult concept. ;)

The overwhelming majority of the US market generally values price over all other considerations, even schedule. So the carriers respond in like fashion.

Every time an airline has attempted to differentiate themselves on an alternative aspect, they get crushed-- if you need further familiarization with the topic, just google "American Airlines" + "More Room Throughout Coach" and start reading from there.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
QF754
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Re: “Our Standards Suck!”

Mon Nov 26, 2018 7:53 am

PlanesNTrains wrote:
If an airline can make a fair and decent profit serving hot meals on one hour flights, having free bags, handling delays better, offering more amenities, etc, then more power to them.


QF made a AUD$1.6 billion (before tax) profit for FY18 whilst doing exactly that.

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media ... ar-profit/
 
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capshandler
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Re: “Our Standards Suck!”

Mon Nov 26, 2018 8:41 am

I’m quite a frequent AA flyer on the BCN-MIA and MIA-GUA and as far as from now, I’d never switch to another airline. Their Business product is great, the brand is surprisingly well managed compared to the industry average and people is professional and prepared. Proud customer here.
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: “Our Standards Suck!”

Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:51 pm

QF754 wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
If an airline can make a fair and decent profit serving hot meals on one hour flights, having free bags, handling delays better, offering more amenities, etc, then more power to them.


QF made a AUD$1.6 billion (before tax) profit for FY18 whilst doing exactly that.

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media ... ar-profit/


That’s great, and I’m certainly not implying that doesn’t happen. In the US, that doesn’t work out so we’ll, but maybe things will change.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
Ziyulu
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Re: “Our Standards Suck!”

Mon Nov 26, 2018 2:26 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
Ziyulu wrote:
I'd say Chinese carriers offer way better service than the US 3. You get hot meals on one hour flights with no charge for checked bags.


Why exactly does a hot meal mean “better service?” Meals are fine but they are one of many components of service. When they are of questionable quality, they are an even less important component.


Better than a small bag of tasteless pretzels.
 
DFW17L
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Re: “Our Standards Suck!”

Mon Nov 26, 2018 2:56 pm

capshandler wrote:
I’m quite a frequent AA flyer on the BCN-MIA and MIA-GUA and as far as from now, I’d never switch to another airline. Their Business product is great, the brand is surprisingly well managed compared to the industry average and people is professional and prepared. Proud customer here.


Agreed. I read the comments on a.net and it seems like I'm flying on a completely different airline. 25+ AA years customer and very happy with the service and product. m2c.
 
B737900ER
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Re: “Our Standards Suck!”

Mon Nov 26, 2018 3:03 pm

Ziyulu wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
Ziyulu wrote:
I'd say Chinese carriers offer way better service than the US 3. You get hot meals on one hour flights with no charge for checked bags.


Why exactly does a hot meal mean “better service?” Meals are fine but they are one of many components of service. When they are of questionable quality, they are an even less important component.


Better than a small bag of tasteless pretzels.

Still better than grease noodles with, I guess they call it beef, but that’s debatable.

If you like delayed flights, smelly planes, ground staff who are trained, and go out of their way, to not problem solve, and flight attendants who go crazy when you turn on your phone even when it’s in airplane mode, then by all means fly Chinese.

The US3 have a bad rep, but they complete 99.9% of their flights safely and reliably and service is generally consistent.
Last edited by B737900ER on Mon Nov 26, 2018 3:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
UpNAWAy
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Re: “Our Standards Suck!”

Mon Nov 26, 2018 3:04 pm

rigo wrote:
What I don't really understand is how can US-based airlines afford being such a joke, and get away with it?

All that's saying is that you don't have particularly adept deductive capabilities.... it's not a difficult concept. ;)

The overwhelming majority of the US market generally values price over all other considerations, even schedule. So the carriers respond in like fashion.

Every time an airline has attempted to differentiate themselves on an alternative aspect, they get crushed-- if you need further familiarization with the topic, just google "American Airlines" + "More Room Throughout Coach" and start reading from there.[/quote]


I had thought there was a market for a US National Premium Airline, something like a Midwest express. Boy was I wrong. The US market will not pay for better service or hard product, except about 5% of the passengers i.e. the current catered to biz traveler.

I think I heard one of the Major CEOs once respond to financial analyst question of "why they match the Spirits of the worlds fares" and he said if we had a $10 more expensive Y ticket in a directly competing market the load factor would drop from 80% to less than 50%. Keep in mind 50% of US travelers travel less than once a year, price is all that maters.

And as we have talked about here forever comparing a US carrier to any Foreign carries with little to no direct competition is pointless.
 
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Super80Fan
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Re: “Our Standards Suck!”

Mon Nov 26, 2018 3:17 pm

I'm curious why AA shareholders allow this to continue and still are fine with Dougie in the CEO chair.
RIP McDonnell Douglas
RIP US Airways
 
LupineChemist
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Re: “Our Standards Suck!”

Mon Nov 26, 2018 3:38 pm

DFW17L wrote:
capshandler wrote:
I’m quite a frequent AA flyer on the BCN-MIA and MIA-GUA and as far as from now, I’d never switch to another airline. Their Business product is great, the brand is surprisingly well managed compared to the industry average and people is professional and prepared. Proud customer here.


Agreed. I read the comments on a.net and it seems like I'm flying on a completely different airline. 25+ AA years customer and very happy with the service and product. m2c.


I am based in MAD and try to fly AA in the US. Best I can figure it's a completely different people for those with status. The lounges have gotten much better and MCE is just fine for short haul. I don't really care about lav size since I'm trying to spend as little time as possible there.
 
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Polot
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Re: “Our Standards Suck!”

Mon Nov 26, 2018 3:41 pm

QF754 wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
If an airline can make a fair and decent profit serving hot meals on one hour flights, having free bags, handling delays better, offering more amenities, etc, then more power to them.


QF made a AUD$1.6 billion (before tax) profit for FY18 whilst doing exactly that.

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media ... ar-profit/

To be fair the Qantas Group made AUD$1.6 billion before taxes. That includes Jetstar, who is not flying around offering free hot meals on one hour flights, free bags, and more free amenities. That said Qantas Domestic is performing well, but it is also benefiting from only having Virgin Australia (who has been struggling) as strong premium domestic competition.
 
UpNAWAy
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Re: “Our Standards Suck!”

Mon Nov 26, 2018 3:43 pm

Since the merger by almost all measurable standards the hard product has been improved as well as the operational metrics. There is an obvious biased and purposeful misinformation campaign going on here.
 
slvrblt
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Re: “Our Standards Suck!”

Mon Nov 26, 2018 4:31 pm

UpNAWAy wrote:
Since the merger by almost all measurable standards the hard product has been improved as well as the operational metrics. There is an obvious biased and purposeful misinformation campaign going on here.
-

Yes. Hard product has improved. But its not all misinformation. I'll reiterate what the flight attendant in the other thread said. THIS MANAGEMENT does not care about the ideas or opinions of the rank and file. I take pride in taking care of people, helping them in times of distress, and making their experience a good one. But upper management is slowly eroding what we are permitted to do for passengers, from meals, to hotels, to OAL protection during IRROPS. Its all getting less and less. In additiion, there is little to zero communication on new information or implemented changes, often bulletins are issued as an afterthought. ''Oh, by the way, this bulletin issued today was effective yesterday. (what??)
They continue to do stupid things, operationally and functionally. Then they hire people off the street with NO airline experience, to do sensitive or complicated jobs that should require airline backgrounds. Then they're surprised when stuff happens. A lot that this USAir management cannot get through their thick heads is that LAA had already ''been there, done that.'' But they ignore previous outcomes and push on. And as these are mostly internal issues I'm not going to elaborate here. AA had advanced a lot in some things but USAir rolled back the process, we have actually regressed in many areas back to 1980's processes and technology. I can get a lot more specific but I did that in another thread and the post got removed and I got all kinds of nasty messages from moderators, I guess someone at AA got all upset.

I think the pilot that said this was right - AA was always the innovator, never the follower. Lots of people did hate Crandall, especially competing airlines, but it was mostly the unions with the most vitriol. No surprise there. He was a hard guy in many ways but he had VISION, many new things rolled out under his watch. He ALWAYS wanted to hear from the rank and file, as evidenced by his famous systemwide ''President's Conferences.'' I loved those, you could ask Crandall anything. He molded and shaped AA as an airline to be reckoned with.
..everything works out in the end.
 
9w748capt
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Re: “Our Standards Suck!”

Mon Nov 26, 2018 4:51 pm

UpNAWAy wrote:
Since the merger by almost all measurable standards the hard product has been improved as well as the operational metrics. There is an obvious biased and purposeful misinformation campaign going on here.


Haha are you living in la-la land? Ripping out PTVs and reducing seat pitch somehow equals an improved hard product? Yes AA has done some things well, but most of the time they just come off cheap.
 
wjcandee
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Re: “Our Standards Suck!”

Mon Nov 26, 2018 5:01 pm

Bob Crandall started the "You are the airline employee Master Race" stuff a long time ago. It was meant to boost pride, but sadly in many cases all it did was boost ego. As a general rule, flying regularly from Dallas in the 1980s and 1990s, the difference in personality-types hired by Southwest and those hired by AA was glaring. WN: genuine, outgoing, fun. AA: beauty queen, too-good-to-be here, better-than-you. After sitting in First one day listening to the two nitwits in the galley going on and on and on in a snooty way about pax (and too stupid to realize that if it was LOUD in the galley, that didn't COVER their voices, it made them EASIER to hear in the cabin, because they were talking over the noise), I resolved to fly WN, DL and TW (even with a conx) for the rest of the time I was in Dallas. A lot of bizpeople in DFW at the time swore by AA, and many still do, but it wasn't for me.

The "we lead and they follow" stuff was total crap, but I can't tell you how many people at AA believe(d) it. It's kind of funny: as much as they hated Crandall (and he didn't care), his leadership style made his employees feel very good about themselves and the quality of their company. Delusionally-so. But that pride permeated management and down to the folks who work where the rubber meets the road. Pride is an important thing, and he pushed it down throughout the organization. Like I say, it kind of twisted into a demented and unjustified sense of superiority, but the good part of making your employees be proud is a big part of his lasting legacy.
 
AWACSooner
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Re: “Our Standards Suck!”

Mon Nov 26, 2018 5:30 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
All I know is that in the US the industry has been to Hell and back. If they are finally making money as a group while not being world class, I’m good with that.

And what led them to hell? Their own mismanagment and negligence. Then they hid behind Ch11 to screw over their employees. And then they decided to return to profitability on the backs of their customers (i.e. ancillary fees). But hey, as long as it's all about the shareholder...
 
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TVNWZ
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Re: “Our Standards Suck!”

Mon Nov 26, 2018 5:37 pm

I fly about 150-175K per year. Two years ago I started moving from almost exclusively DL to other airlines. Today, I fly mostly AA. I don't see the terrible customer service or race to the bottom outlined in this thread. All the DL envy is interesting to read, and DL is a very good airline, but --to me-- AA is equally as good.

I'm glad I have not interacted with those AA employees embittered here.
 
UpNAWAy
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Re: “Our Standards Suck!”

Mon Nov 26, 2018 5:45 pm

Crandall was innovative only because he couldn't compete on price. He was also famously outspoken against deregulation. From the late 90-s up until the merger I don't recall AA being very industry leading or innovative about much of anything. Lots of people still living in the old glory Regulation days of 60s and 70s.
 
winginit
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Re: “Our Standards Suck!”

Mon Nov 26, 2018 5:53 pm

AWACSooner wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
All I know is that in the US the industry has been to Hell and back. If they are finally making money as a group while not being world class, I’m good with that.

And what led them to hell? Their own mismanagment and negligence. Then they hid behind Ch11 to screw over their employees. And then they decided to return to profitability on the backs of their customers (i.e. ancillary fees). But hey, as long as it's all about the shareholder...


I mean... 9/11 was certainly a contributing factor towards their most recent trip to hell, or was your expectation that they should have managed with an incident like that in mind?
 
slvrblt
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Re: “Our Standards Suck!”

Mon Nov 26, 2018 5:54 pm

TVNWZ wrote:
DL is a very good airline, but --to me-- AA is equally as good.

I'm glad I have not interacted with those AA employees embittered here.


And that's GREAT to hear. I think the DL koolaid is a bit strong myself. But it doesn't do any good to try and mask the issues at AA. I'm not embittered - quite the opposite. As I stated earlier, I try to do the best I can for passengers.........after all, that's the mission. It's just made harder to do it right by the penny-wise, pound-foolish approach AA seems to have. USAir did everything on the cheap - and AA is following suit under this leadership. I'm philosophical about it - I don't have that much time left with the company, thank goodness. All I can do now is try to help the passengers as much as I can without adverse consequences to me.
..everything works out in the end.
 
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TVNWZ
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Re: “Our Standards Suck!”

Mon Nov 26, 2018 6:00 pm

slvrblt wrote:
TVNWZ wrote:
DL is a very good airline, but --to me-- AA is equally as good.

I'm glad I have not interacted with those AA employees embittered here.


And that's GREAT to hear. I think the DL koolaid is a bit strong myself. But it doesn't do any good to try and mask the issues at AA. I'm not embittered - quite the opposite. As I stated earlier, I try to do the best I can for passengers.........after all, that's the mission. It's just made harder to do it right by the penny-wise, pound-foolish approach AA seems to have. USAir did everything on the cheap - and AA is following suit under this leadership. I'm philosophical about it - I don't have that much time left with the company, thank goodness. All I can do now is try to help the passengers as much as I can without adverse consequences to me.


And that's great to hear. Thank you for the customer service.
So, as a customer, what specifically am I not noticing that would be "everything on the cheap" that is happening? Honest question.
 
Art at ISP
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Re: Article: AA Flight Attendant Told the CEO: Our Standards 'Suck' Compared With United's and Delta's.

Mon Nov 26, 2018 6:14 pm

Unfortunately, this AA is USAirways/America West, it is not the old AA. The current management team has ignored employees and customers and only pays attention to shareholders. The only way to fix the situation is to replace management with a team who gets the importance of listening to and empowering their employees and taking care of their customers...if that happens, by default shareholders will be happy. It DOES NOT work the other way around...this is death by 1000 cuts, and calling this airline AA is like putting lipstick on a pig. THIS IS SQUARELY ON MANAGEMENT--the great employees and customers of AA deserve better.

All airlines have strengths and weaknesses, but it appears that UA and especially DL listen to their employees and customers better than AA does. I know for a fact, because I have met Mr. Parker on numerous occasions, and he has made his disdain for high value flyers obvious.
 
Ziyulu
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Re: “Our Standards Suck!”

Mon Nov 26, 2018 6:17 pm

B737900ER wrote:
Ziyulu wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:

Why exactly does a hot meal mean “better service?” Meals are fine but they are one of many components of service. When they are of questionable quality, they are an even less important component.


Better than a small bag of tasteless pretzels.

Still better than grease noodles with, I guess they call it beef, but that’s debatable.

If you like delayed flights, smelly planes, ground staff who are trained, and go out of their way, to not problem solve, and flight attendants who go crazy when you turn on your phone even when it’s in airplane mode, then by all means fly Chinese.

The US3 have a bad rep, but they complete 99.9% of their flights safely and reliably and service is generally consistent.


Really? Air China, China Eastern, and China Southern has a better safety record than many North America carriers. In fact, I have had more delays on AA than all the Chinese carriers combined.
 
Ziyulu
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Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 10:35 am

Re: Article: AA Flight Attendant Told the CEO: Our Standards 'Suck' Compared With United's and Delta's.

Mon Nov 26, 2018 6:18 pm

Also, Chinese airlines now allow mobile phone use in airplane mode.

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