User avatar
lesfalls
Topic Author
Posts: 3291
Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:58 pm

TAP receives first A330Neo

Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:20 pm

Seems that TAP has receieved its first A330Neo today: http://aeronauticsonline.com/airbus-del ... -portugal/

Your thoughts?
Lufthansa: Einfach ein bisschen mehr.
 
a350lover
Posts: 749
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:21 am

Re: TAP receives first A330Neo

Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:10 pm

JFK, BOS, EWR... maybe SFO. Which U.S destination should come first for the TAP's A330neo welcome?

A bit off topic, but I see a tremendous potential for future American-West-Coast connections. Hard to believe Norwegian hasn't stepped forward to launch the yet unserved San Francisco (or OAK)- Lisbon (Tap will enter the market in 2019). Same with LAX-LIS. Taking into account the giant boom which LIS has seen with tourism (the "new Barcelona" - they call it!), must be related to the lack of slots in Portela.
Last edited by a350lover on Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
User avatar
flee
Posts: 1030
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:14 am

Re: TAP receives first A330Neo

Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:14 pm

Here is the Airbus Press Release:
https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-r ... ortug.html

TAP Air Portugal’s first A330-900 is leased from Avolon. It features 298 seats in a comfortable three-class lay-out with 34 full-flat business class, 96 economy plus and 168 economy class seats. The Airspace by Airbus cabin offers more personal space, larger overhead storage bins, advanced cabin lighting and the latest generation in-flight entertainment system and connectivity. The aircraft will be deployed on routes from Portugal to the Americas and Africa.
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 21946
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: TAP receives first A330Neo

Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:16 pm

lesfalls wrote:
Your thoughts?

It's been a long time coming.

Congrats to Airbus, RR and TAP.

Hope the A330neo has a long and successful career!
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
babastud
Posts: 245
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2016 1:38 am

Re: TAP receives first A330Neo

Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:19 pm

I'm Thinking SFO
 
User avatar
euroflyer
Posts: 637
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:20 am

Re: TAP receives first A330Neo

Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:20 pm

I'm a bit confused between CS-TUA and CS-TUB. It seems that both frames used to wear the "First to fly" sticker... Am I right ?
Born to fly !
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 6199
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: TAP receives first A330Neo

Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:23 pm

a350lover wrote:
JFK, BOS, EWR... maybe SFO. Which U.S destination should come first for the TAP's A330neo welcome?

A bit off topic, but I see a tremendous potential for future American-West-Coast connections. Hard to believe Norwegian hasn't stepped forward to launch the yet unserved San Francisco (or OAK)- Lisbon (Tap will enter the market in 2019). Same with LAX-LIS.


Why do you think there's meaningful demand (at good-for-carrier prices) West Coast-Lisbon? Even MAD has limited service, and LIS doesn't even make the list of top 40 gateways to the U.S. (while MAD is #25).

https://www.transportation.gov/sites/do ... r-2017.pdf
 
User avatar
flee
Posts: 1030
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:14 am

Re: TAP receives first A330Neo

Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:25 pm

euroflyer wrote:
I'm a bit confused between CS-TUA and CS-TUB. It seems that both frames used to wear the "First to fly" sticker... Am I right ?

CS-TUA was a test frame and needs to be refurbished and reconfigured before delivery.

CS-TUB is the second frame built for TAP but the first to be delivered. It is factory fresh.
 
User avatar
euroflyer
Posts: 637
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:20 am

Re: TAP receives first A330Neo

Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:41 pm

flee wrote:
euroflyer wrote:
I'm a bit confused between CS-TUA and CS-TUB. It seems that both frames used to wear the "First to fly" sticker... Am I right ?

CS-TUA was a test frame and needs to be refurbished and reconfigured before delivery.

CS-TUB is the second frame built for TAP but the first to be delivered. It is factory fresh.


Thanks.
So technically, CS-TUB wearing the "First to fly" sticker is a misleading ad ? 8-)
Born to fly !
 
User avatar
flee
Posts: 1030
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:14 am

Re: TAP receives first A330Neo

Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:48 pm

IMHO, the "first to fly" claim is more for the airline, TAP.
 
797
Posts: 1433
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 8:51 am

Re: TAP receives first A330Neo

Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:50 pm

Here are some cool photos along with details from the event in Toulouse:

https://airwaysmag.com/airlines/first-a ... ivery-tap/

The cabin looks wonderful. Very welcoming!
Flying isn't dangerous. Crashing is what's dangerous!
 
User avatar
flee
Posts: 1030
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:14 am

Re: TAP receives first A330Neo

Mon Nov 26, 2018 2:10 pm

Lisbon to São Paulo in Brazil will be the first route.

TAP are also planning A321 LR transatlantic services.

See: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ap-453899/
 
flipdewaf
Posts: 3067
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:28 am

Re: TAP receives first A330Neo

Mon Nov 26, 2018 2:24 pm

I don't like the mask on the A330neo, makes it look fat, I hope it works for TAP as I would like to see the A330 going on for another round.

fred
Image
 
airbazar
Posts: 9832
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: TAP receives first A330Neo

Mon Nov 26, 2018 3:10 pm

a350lover wrote:
JFK, BOS, EWR... maybe SFO. Which U.S destination should come first for the TAP's A330neo welcome?

A bit off topic, but I see a tremendous potential for future American-West-Coast connections. Hard to believe Norwegian hasn't stepped forward to launch the yet unserved San Francisco (or OAK)- Lisbon (Tap will enter the market in 2019). Same with LAX-LIS. Taking into account the giant boom which LIS has seen with tourism (the "new Barcelona" - they call it!), must be related to the lack of slots in Portela.


As mentioned above, GRU will be the first route. The A330NEO has not yet received FAA type certification so it can't fly to the U.S. yet.
DY hasn't stepped into LIS yet because there are no slots. LIS is even more slot restricted than LHR in the sense that at LHR if you have the money you can buy a pair of slots from an exiting airline (if they're willing to sell it). At LIS slots are not monetized so an airline can't buy slots.
I'm not sure that there is a market for LAX-LIS but there's certainly a market for SFO-LIS which TP will start next year.
 
rbrunner
Posts: 661
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:13 am

Re: TAP receives first A330Neo

Mon Nov 26, 2018 3:23 pm

Is she flying to LIS today?
 
User avatar
CarbonFibre
Posts: 603
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:02 pm

Re: TAP receives first A330Neo

Mon Nov 26, 2018 4:06 pm

They need to add the new "Air" titles to the fuselage...
 
User avatar
euroflyer
Posts: 637
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:20 am

Re: TAP receives first A330Neo

Mon Nov 26, 2018 4:13 pm

CarbonFibre wrote:
They need to add the new "Air" titles to the fuselage...


I don't think so, it will stay as is. Although the official name to TAP is TAP Air Portugal since 2017, I don't think any aircraft in their fleet has the full version titles
Born to fly !
 
User avatar
CarbonFibre
Posts: 603
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:02 pm

Re: TAP receives first A330Neo

Mon Nov 26, 2018 4:37 pm

euroflyer wrote:
I don't think any aircraft in their fleet has the full version titles


CS-TTN does.
 
ELBOB
Posts: 296
Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2015 6:56 am

Re: TAP receives first A330Neo

Mon Nov 26, 2018 4:55 pm

airbazar wrote:
The A330NEO has not yet received FAA type certification so it can't fly to the U.S. yet.


Of coure it can. US foreign-type certification requirements ( FAR 21.29 ) only apply to "a product that is to be imported into the United States."
 
dash500
Posts: 101
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 4:14 am

Re: TAP receives first A330Neo

Mon Nov 26, 2018 5:14 pm

CarbonFibre wrote:
euroflyer wrote:
I don't think any aircraft in their fleet has the full version titles


CS-TTN does.


A320 CS-TNJ was also repainted with Air Portugal titles on both sides of the fuselage.
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3378
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: TAP receives first A330Neo

Mon Nov 26, 2018 5:53 pm

euroflyer wrote:
flee wrote:
euroflyer wrote:
I'm a bit confused between CS-TUA and CS-TUB. It seems that both frames used to wear the "First to fly" sticker... Am I right ?

CS-TUA was a test frame and needs to be refurbished and reconfigured before delivery.

CS-TUB is the second frame built for TAP but the first to be delivered. It is factory fresh.


Thanks.
So technically, CS-TUB wearing the "First to fly" sticker is a misleading ad ? 8-)



No it is not as CS-TUB is the first to fly at the airline. Don't overthink things by accusing them of fraud. There are already too many crap lawsuits out there.
 
Breathe
Posts: 536
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:06 pm

Re: TAP receives first A330Neo

Mon Nov 26, 2018 6:27 pm

Delivery video from Airbus:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVpldpbOvnc

It's nice to see the A330neo finally being delivered to customers. :smile:
 
User avatar
PW100
Posts: 3941
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 9:17 pm

Re: TAP receives first A330Neo

Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:12 pm

flee wrote:
Lisbon to São Paulo in Brazil will be the first route.

TAP are also planning A321 LR transatlantic services.

See: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ap-453899/


Interesting bits from FlightGlobal:

Two further aircraft will arrive before year-end, with another 15 to be delivered in 2019.

TAP chief executive Antonoaldo Neves, speaking at a delivery ceremony in Toulouse, said that by the end of next year, 78% of the carrier's flown block hours will be on the A330-900.
Immigration officer: "What's the purpose of your visit to the USA?" Spotter: "Shooting airliners with my Canon!"
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 9735
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: TAP receives first A330Neo

Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:23 pm

PW100 wrote:
flee wrote:
Lisbon to São Paulo in Brazil will be the first route.

TAP are also planning A321 LR transatlantic services.

See: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ap-453899/


Interesting bits from FlightGlobal:

Two further aircraft will arrive before year-end, with another 15 to be delivered in 2019.

TAP chief executive Antonoaldo Neves, speaking at a delivery ceremony in Toulouse, said that by the end of next year, 78% of the carrier's flown block hours will be on the A330-900.


Not too surprising- by end of next year the 4 A333s will be gone, the 4 A343s will be gone, and the older A332s will be probably be gone, with the A339s on all the longer routes to maximize fuel efficiency.
 
User avatar
PW100
Posts: 3941
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 9:17 pm

Re: TAP receives first A330Neo

Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:32 pm

Yep, but still a pretty aggressive roll over schedule for a relatively small airline.
Immigration officer: "What's the purpose of your visit to the USA?" Spotter: "Shooting airliners with my Canon!"
 
concordeforever
Posts: 68
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2016 6:51 pm

Re: TAP receives first A330Neo

Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:57 pm

PW100 wrote:
Yep, but still a pretty aggressive roll over schedule for a relatively small airline.


I was in Toulouse last week and saw 12 (twelve) of their A330Neos in various stages of completion and painting ranging from fully painted, to tail only, or even just winglets only. Most didn't have engines attached, but now that the first has finally been handed over, I think they will definitely get all the planned aircraft for 2019.
 
airbazar
Posts: 9832
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: TAP receives first A330Neo

Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:07 pm

PW100 wrote:
Yep, but still a pretty aggressive roll over schedule for a relatively small airline.

They're not exactly expanding. They are for the most part replacing existing A330 with new A330. I'm not sure what's so aggressive about it.
TAP is more than twice the size of VS. When VS received ~10 789's in about a year I didn't hear anyone call it "an aggressive roll out schedule for a relatively small airline." :)
 
User avatar
cedars747
Posts: 2673
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2005 8:04 am

Re: TAP receives first A330Neo

Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:23 pm

Splendid, I would like to fly aboard on the Lisbon - Rio de Janeiro route!
Tengo una pasion por la aviacion /لدي شغف للطيران / I have a passion for aviation /Jeg har en lidenskap for luftfart/ J'ai une passion pour l'aviation.
 
Pyrex
Posts: 4696
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:24 am

Re: TAP receives first A330Neo

Tue Nov 27, 2018 1:01 am

Having 78% of your block hours (so, likely more than that of your ASM) flown by a brand new aircraft propelled by RR engines (which have been having a ton of issues lately) is pretty aggressive, even if it is mostly just replacing existing capacity. Teething issues with the engines (or even other components) that impact the dispatch availability rates can wreak havoc with their operations. So can a delay in getting ETOPS certification (which as far as I am aware is just provisional).
Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
 
geoshina
Posts: 216
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2014 8:18 pm

Re: TAP receives first A330Neo

Tue Nov 27, 2018 3:39 am

cedars747 wrote:
Splendid, I would like to fly aboard on the Lisbon - Rio de Janeiro route!


Last month I did GIG-LIS in the A340 - CS-TOA. :)
I said farewell to the plane. Smooth flying in a really old "hard-product".
 
juliuswong
Moderator
Posts: 1873
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:22 am

Re: TAP receives first A330Neo

Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:11 am

Polot wrote:
PW100 wrote:
flee wrote:
Lisbon to São Paulo in Brazil will be the first route.

TAP are also planning A321 LR transatlantic services.

See: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ap-453899/


Interesting bits from FlightGlobal:

Two further aircraft will arrive before year-end, with another 15 to be delivered in 2019.

TAP chief executive Antonoaldo Neves, speaking at a delivery ceremony in Toulouse, said that by the end of next year, 78% of the carrier's flown block hours will be on the A330-900.


Not too surprising- by end of next year the 4 A333s will be gone, the 4 A343s will be gone, and the older A332s will be probably be gone, with the A339s on all the longer routes to maximize fuel efficiency.

They have returned two ex-OS A332 to lessor recently (CS-TOH & CS-TOJ). My guess next will be ex-OS CS-TOI and CS-TOK, thereafter those of ex-Blue Wings (CS-TOE, CS-TOF, CS-TOG) and TAM (ex-CS-TOQ & CS-TOR). Lastly the A343 and ex-SQ A333.
- Life is a journey, travel it well -
 
OlafW
Posts: 313
Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 6:15 pm

Re: TAP receives first A330Neo

Tue Nov 27, 2018 9:39 am

flee wrote:
IMHO, the "first to fly" claim is more for the airline, TAP.


This. Similar to LH's first four A320neos having the "First to fly the A320neo" sticker.
 
NZ321
Posts: 1120
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2015 8:00 pm

Re: TAP receives first A330Neo

Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:33 am

Do we have a seat map? I can't find one anywhere.... weird.
Plane mad!
 
RalXWB
Posts: 467
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2015 9:36 am

Re: TAP receives first A330Neo

Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:26 am

They have a fleet of 84. I would not call that small...
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 8964
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

Re: TAP receives first A330Neo

Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:50 am

RalXWB wrote:
They have a fleet of 84. I would not call that small...


TAP 91 frames and TAP express 21 frames. Together 112 frames.
 
dash500
Posts: 101
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 4:14 am

Re: TAP receives first A330Neo

Tue Nov 27, 2018 1:23 pm

juliuswong wrote:
They have returned two ex-OS A332 to lessor recently (CS-TOH & CS-TOJ). My guess next will be ex-OS CS-TOI and CS-TOK, thereafter those of ex-Blue Wings (CS-TOE, CS-TOF, CS-TOG) and TAM (ex-CS-TOQ & CS-TOR). Lastly the A343 and ex-SQ A333.


The two ex-TAM will stay a little bit longer. They were retrofited with the new long haul cabin recently. The four A333 will go to Air Canada next year.
 
airbazar
Posts: 9832
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: TAP receives first A330Neo

Tue Nov 27, 2018 2:13 pm

Pyrex wrote:
Having 78% of your block hours (so, likely more than that of your ASM) flown by a brand new aircraft propelled by RR engines (which have been having a ton of issues lately) is pretty aggressive, even if it is mostly just replacing existing capacity. Teething issues with the engines (or even other components) that impact the dispatch availability rates can wreak havoc with their operations. So can a delay in getting ETOPS certification (which as far as I am aware is just provisional).


The key point being "by the end of next year". They have a lot of downtime in their schedule over the Winter months. The utilization won't really ramp up until the Spring of 2019. They'll have almost 6 months to resolve and mitigate whatever teething issues the aircraft will have,
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 8964
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

Re: TAP receives first A330Neo

Tue Nov 27, 2018 3:01 pm

Pyrex wrote:
Having 78% of your block hours (so, likely more than that of your ASM) flown by a brand new aircraft propelled by RR engines (which have been having a ton of issues lately) is pretty aggressive, even if it is mostly just replacing existing capacity. Teething issues with the engines (or even other components) that impact the dispatch availability rates can wreak havoc with their operations. So can a delay in getting ETOPS certification (which as far as I am aware is just provisional).


Yes, RR has trouble with the T1000 and from now to all the future all RR engines will be unreliable. :sarcastic:

GE had once in a while trouble with an engine. Does that mean they never again managed to produce an reliable engine?
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 9735
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: TAP receives first A330Neop

Tue Nov 27, 2018 3:07 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
Pyrex wrote:
Having 78% of your block hours (so, likely more than that of your ASM) flown by a brand new aircraft propelled by RR engines (which have been having a ton of issues lately) is pretty aggressive, even if it is mostly just replacing existing capacity. Teething issues with the engines (or even other components) that impact the dispatch availability rates can wreak havoc with their operations. So can a delay in getting ETOPS certification (which as far as I am aware is just provisional).


Yes, RR has trouble with the T1000 and from now to all the future all RR engines will be unreliable. :sarcastic:

GE had once in a while trouble with an engine. Does that mean they never again managed to produce an reliable engine?

Well considering the T7000 is based on that troublesome T1000...

There are going to be a lot of eyes on RR/the A330neo to make sure RR actually fixed all the issues in the T7000/T1000 TEN, and that nothing is suddenly going to crop up several years from now and “oops, it turns out we didn’t actually fixed the problem after all.”
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 8964
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

Re: TAP receives first A330Neop

Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:03 pm

Polot wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
Pyrex wrote:
Having 78% of your block hours (so, likely more than that of your ASM) flown by a brand new aircraft propelled by RR engines (which have been having a ton of issues lately) is pretty aggressive, even if it is mostly just replacing existing capacity. Teething issues with the engines (or even other components) that impact the dispatch availability rates can wreak havoc with their operations. So can a delay in getting ETOPS certification (which as far as I am aware is just provisional).


Yes, RR has trouble with the T1000 and from now to all the future all RR engines will be unreliable. :sarcastic:

GE had once in a while trouble with an engine. Does that mean they never again managed to produce an reliable engine?

Well considering the T7000 is based on that troublesome T1000...

There are going to be a lot of eyes on RR/the A330neo to make sure RR actually fixed all the issues in the T7000/T1000 TEN, and that nothing is suddenly going to crop up several years from now and “oops, it turns out we didn’t actually fixed the problem after all.”


Based on the T1000ten, the version that replaced the troublesome T1000. As I said because the T1000 B and C version have trouble, all the following Trent versions will have trouble. :sarcastic: A natural law just stated by Polot. This law of course only applies to RR engines.
 
User avatar
cedars747
Posts: 2673
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2005 8:04 am

Re: TAP receives first A330Neo

Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:47 pm

geoshina wrote:
cedars747 wrote:
Splendid, I would like to fly aboard on the Lisbon - Rio de Janeiro route!


Last month I did GIG-LIS in the A340 - CS-TOA. :)
I said farewell to the plane. Smooth flying in a really old "hard-product".

How lucky, I envy you!
Tengo una pasion por la aviacion /لدي شغف للطيران / I have a passion for aviation /Jeg har en lidenskap for luftfart/ J'ai une passion pour l'aviation.
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 9735
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: TAP receives first A330Neop

Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:52 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
Polot wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:

Yes, RR has trouble with the T1000 and from now to all the future all RR engines will be unreliable. :sarcastic:

GE had once in a while trouble with an engine. Does that mean they never again managed to produce an reliable engine?

Well considering the T7000 is based on that troublesome T1000...

There are going to be a lot of eyes on RR/the A330neo to make sure RR actually fixed all the issues in the T7000/T1000 TEN, and that nothing is suddenly going to crop up several years from now and “oops, it turns out we didn’t actually fixed the problem after all.”


Based on the T1000ten, the version that replaced the troublesome T1000. As I said because the T1000 B and C version have trouble, all the following Trent versions will have trouble. :sarcastic: A natural law just stated by Polot. This law of course only applies to RR engines.

I never said it will have trouble. But airlines will have suspicions about the engines and be hesitant/wary. Now is not a great time to be selling RR engines, or be connected with RR (that was seen as one factor in Eric Schulz’s ultimate failure at Airbus). Once the engines fully prove themselves and RR moves on from the current mess then people will get over it.

It may be unfair, but that is how life and business works. Ask PW what a string of engine program failures and difficulties does to your reputation among your customers.
 
RalXWB
Posts: 467
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2015 9:36 am

Re: TAP receives first A330Neo

Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:43 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
RalXWB wrote:
They have a fleet of 84. I would not call that small...


TAP 91 frames and TAP express 21 frames. Together 112 frames.


Their website states 84 so I used that figure...
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 8964
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

Re: TAP receives first A330Neop

Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:05 pm

Polot wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
Polot wrote:
Well considering the T7000 is based on that troublesome T1000...

There are going to be a lot of eyes on RR/the A330neo to make sure RR actually fixed all the issues in the T7000/T1000 TEN, and that nothing is suddenly going to crop up several years from now and “oops, it turns out we didn’t actually fixed the problem after all.”


Based on the T1000ten, the version that replaced the troublesome T1000. As I said because the T1000 B and C version have trouble, all the following Trent versions will have trouble. :sarcastic: A natural law just stated by Polot. This law of course only applies to RR engines.

I never said it will have trouble. But airlines will have suspicions about the engines and be hesitant/wary. Now is not a great time to be selling RR engines, or be connected with RR (that was seen as one factor in Eric Schulz’s ultimate failure at Airbus). Once the engines fully prove themselves and RR moves on from the current mess then people will get over it.

It may be unfair, but that is how life and business works. Ask PW what a string of engine program failures and difficulties does to your reputation among your customers.


TAP does not seem to be suspicious in regards to the engines, perhaps they have more information than you?

Regarding engines, the GEnx had or has quite a serious icing trouble. Do you now expect every engine developed from the GEnx, like for example the coming GE9x to have the same icing trouble? Just asking.
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 9735
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: TAP receives first A330Neop

Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:11 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
Polot wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:

Based on the T1000ten, the version that replaced the troublesome T1000. As I said because the T1000 B and C version have trouble, all the following Trent versions will have trouble. :sarcastic: A natural law just stated by Polot. This law of course only applies to RR engines.

I never said it will have trouble. But airlines will have suspicions about the engines and be hesitant/wary. Now is not a great time to be selling RR engines, or be connected with RR (that was seen as one factor in Eric Schulz’s ultimate failure at Airbus). Once the engines fully prove themselves and RR moves on from the current mess then people will get over it.

It may be unfair, but that is how life and business works. Ask PW what a string of engine program failures and difficulties does to your reputation among your customers.


TAP does not seem to be suspicious in regards to the engines, perhaps they have more information than you?

Regarding engines, the GEnx had or has quite a serious icing trouble. Do you now expect every engine developed from the GEnx, like for example the coming GE9x to have the same icing trouble? Just asking.

GEnx’s icing issue is not currently grounding planes forcing airlines to scramble to backfill lost capacity as they await replacement engines. GE, as is clearly evident, also has a far superior PR team than RR.

I was talking in a general sense, not TAP specifically. We really are not privy to how suspicious/worried TAP are.
 
Pyrex
Posts: 4696
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:24 am

Re: TAP receives first A330Neo

Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:14 pm

The A330neo has already been substantially delayed due to engine issues, so being mindful of any potential issues with it (be it sub-par dispatch reliability out of the box or just inability to deliver engines and spare parts on schedule) is just good business practice. And this is regardless of whether the OEM on the engines is RR, GE, PW or anyone else, as every engine manufacturer seems to be having issues with newly-launched products these days.

Good luck to TP, but there is a reason most airlines don't almost completely turn over their entire fleet overnight for a brand new plane, particularly if they are not that used to being a launch customer of anything (as TP is not).
Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 8964
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

Re: TAP receives first A330Neop

Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:27 pm

Polot wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
Polot wrote:
I never said it will have trouble. But airlines will have suspicions about the engines and be hesitant/wary. Now is not a great time to be selling RR engines, or be connected with RR (that was seen as one factor in Eric Schulz’s ultimate failure at Airbus). Once the engines fully prove themselves and RR moves on from the current mess then people will get over it.

It may be unfair, but that is how life and business works. Ask PW what a string of engine program failures and difficulties does to your reputation among your customers.


TAP does not seem to be suspicious in regards to the engines, perhaps they have more information than you?

Regarding engines, the GEnx had or has quite a serious icing trouble. Do you now expect every engine developed from the GEnx, like for example the coming GE9x to have the same icing trouble? Just asking.

GEnx’s icing issue is not currently grounding planes forcing airlines to scramble to backfill lost capacity as they await replacement engines. GE, as is clearly evident, also has a far superior PR team than RR.

I was talking in a general sense, not TAP specifically. We really are not privy to how suspicious/worried TAP are.


Not currently, no, but it was enough trouble until they found a workaround. I asked you if you expect those icing trouble again in the next GE engine. Very simple yes or no.

The T1000ten has a reworked core compared to the T1000 with 75% of the parts being new. The changes to the core are based on XWB core. The T7000 is a derivative of the T1000ten not the T1000.
Up to now there has been no news of trouble with either the T1000ten or the TXWB. Or do you have some other information?
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 9735
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: TAP receives first A330Neop

Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:47 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
Polot wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:

TAP does not seem to be suspicious in regards to the engines, perhaps they have more information than you?

Regarding engines, the GEnx had or has quite a serious icing trouble. Do you now expect every engine developed from the GEnx, like for example the coming GE9x to have the same icing trouble? Just asking.

GEnx’s icing issue is not currently grounding planes forcing airlines to scramble to backfill lost capacity as they await replacement engines. GE, as is clearly evident, also has a far superior PR team than RR.

I was talking in a general sense, not TAP specifically. We really are not privy to how suspicious/worried TAP are.


Not currently, no, but it was enough trouble until they found a workaround. I asked you if you expect those icing trouble again in the next GE engine. Very simple yes or no.

The T1000ten has a reworked core compared to the T1000 with 75% of the parts being new. The changes to the core are based on XWB core. The T7000 is a derivative of the T1000ten not the T1000.
Up to now there has been no news of trouble with either the T1000ten or the TXWB. Or do you have some other information?

I don’t know if the troubles will pop up again, nor do I really care as I’m not buying airplanes. I also never said GE is perfect and that airlines have no issues with them (although I know trying to deflect by bringing up a competitor versus just talking about the subject company is your MO). You seem to have trouble grasping the concept that airlines may forgive, but they don’t forget. Airlines do not operate with the mindset that because the T1000ten/TXWB is trouble free so far that all is hunky dory in RR land, and there will no issues with the T7000 (which as Pyrex noted is already responsible for the A330neo’s current delays). They may still order from RR, but no doubt asking for greater discounts or tighter guarantees that they can nail RR with if there is an issue. What’s that saying? Fool me once...
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 8964
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

Re: TAP receives first A330Neop

Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:53 pm

Polot wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
Polot wrote:
GEnx’s icing issue is not currently grounding planes forcing airlines to scramble to backfill lost capacity as they await replacement engines. GE, as is clearly evident, also has a far superior PR team than RR.

I was talking in a general sense, not TAP specifically. We really are not privy to how suspicious/worried TAP are.


Not currently, no, but it was enough trouble until they found a workaround. I asked you if you expect those icing trouble again in the next GE engine. Very simple yes or no.

The T1000ten has a reworked core compared to the T1000 with 75% of the parts being new. The changes to the core are based on XWB core. The T7000 is a derivative of the T1000ten not the T1000.
Up to now there has been no news of trouble with either the T1000ten or the TXWB. Or do you have some other information?

I don’t know if the troubles will pop up again, nor do I really care as I’m not buying airplanes. I also never said GE is perfect and that airlines have no issues with them (although I know trying to deflect by bringing up a competitor versus just talking about the subject company is your MO). You seem to have trouble grasping the concept that airlines may forgive, but they don’t forget. Airlines do not operate with the mindset that because the T1000ten/TXWB is trouble free so far that all is hunky dory in RR land, and there will no issues with the T7000 (which as Pyrex noted is already responsible for the A330neo’s current delays). They may still order from RR, but no doubt asking for greater discounts or tighter guarantees that they can nail RR with if there is an issue. What’s that saying? Fool me once...


Perhaps you do not get the concept of the T1000 and the T1000ten, that the T7000 is based on, not being the same engine. You have been told so, you can read it up and so on.
Perhaps to difficult to grasp for you.

The delay of the T7000 builds right on the delay of the T1000ten, I assume to make sure that they got no T1000 trouble moved to the new engine.But that is again a concept that is perhaps difficult to grasp. As you make a straight line from delay, to a problematic engine.

As that you do not really care if no trouble has come up with the Trent XWB, in use since 2015 or the T1000ten in use since December 2016, i assume you do not care about good news regarding the probability of trouble free use of the T7000 on an A330neo Airbus.
 
LXwing
Posts: 235
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2016 2:32 pm

Re: TAP receives first A330Neo

Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:17 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
RalXWB wrote:
They have a fleet of 84. I would not call that small...


TAP 91 frames and TAP express 21 frames. Together 112 frames.


That is not correct. The mentioned 91 frames already includes the 21 frames of TAP express, they are not additional.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos