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TripleDelta
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Update: Adria Airways (JP) cancels LOI for 15 Superjets

Mon Nov 26, 2018 2:14 pm

From a Sukhoi press release received by email (my emphasis bolded):

Minister of industry and trade of the Russian Federation Denis Manturov said that JSC “Sukhoi Civil Aircraft Company” and ADRIA Airways signed a Letter of Intent (LOI) for 15 SSJ100.

«The delivery is to be started at the beginning of 2019. They will be handed over under a long-term lease arrangement. In addition, both Parties signed Memorandum of Understanding upon establishing an SSJ100 Maintenance and Repair Organization (MRO) at Ljubljana Airport (Slovenia)».

The JSC «Sukhoi Civil Aircraft Company» President Alexander Rubtsov, the CEO of ADRIA Airways Holger Kowarsch and AA Aviation’s Managing Director Dr. Martin Vorderwulbecke indicated that the agreements signed opened a new chapter towards a strategic relationship between the Parties:

«It is our pleasure to partner with JSC «Sukhoi Civil Aircraft Company». They will totally support ADRIA Airways´ development strategy. During the past two years we were analyzing the SSJ100 type and came to the conclusion that all the technical and operational characteristics of this aircraft would suit best for our strategic goals» - said Holger Kowarsch. He also added that SSJ100 operation would allow to offer more of the current CRJ and Airbus aircraft for ACMI service.

The JSC «Sukhoi Civil Aircraft Company» President Alexander Rubtsov stated: «We realize that the SSJ100 after-sales support at the entry to the European market should be organized profoundly and professionally. Together with the ADRIA Airways we will create a joint maintenance and repair organization for SSJ100 at the Ljubljana Airport. That service platform will secure the operational reliability of SSJ100 aircraft in Europe».
Last edited by atcsundevil on Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Title updated
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Re: Adria Airways (JP) sings LOI for 15 Superjets

Mon Nov 26, 2018 2:22 pm

Brave.
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Re: Adria Airways (JP) sings LOI for 15 Superjets

Mon Nov 26, 2018 2:27 pm

Hawkeye: "It doesn't make any sense."
Radar: "Well, none of it makes any sense. You just have to send in the right number of forms." - MASH 4077
 
JoKeR
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Re: Adria Airways (JP) sings LOI for 15 Superjets

Mon Nov 26, 2018 2:28 pm

So nearly bankrupt airline buys planes no one unfortunately wants. What a combo!
 
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holcakker
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Re: Adria Airways (JP) sings LOI for 15 Superjets

Mon Nov 26, 2018 4:53 pm

Poor guys. Pun intended.
 
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Re: Adria Airways (JP) sings LOI for 15 Superjets

Mon Nov 26, 2018 6:14 pm

Adria is on verge of collapse and had to get EUR €4mil cash injection only last month and is now looking for another €4mil. This is in addition to €10mil committed in the last two years. Its seen its largest loss since 2012 and few weeks ago announced shrinking its route network.
mercure f-wtcc
 
SCQ83
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Re: Adria Airways (JP) sings LOI for 15 Superjets

Mon Nov 26, 2018 6:44 pm

mercure1 wrote:
Adria is on verge of collapse and had to get EUR €4mil cash injection only last month and is now looking for another €4mil. This is in addition to €10mil committed in the last two years. Its seen its largest loss since 2012 and few weeks ago announced shrinking its route network.


Adria should better go away. IMO it would be good for Slovenia.

Ljubljana + Lake Bled makes a nice city-break that is not very popular due to the lack of non-stop, cheap flights to many European capitals. With Ryanair and/or Wizzair, that would be solved automatically.
 
Blerg
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Re: Adria Airways (JP) sings LOI for 15 Superjets

Mon Nov 26, 2018 6:59 pm

mercure1 wrote:
Adria is on verge of collapse and had to get EUR €4mil cash injection only last month and is now looking for another €4mil. This is in addition to €10mil committed in the last two years. Its seen its largest loss since 2012 and few weeks ago announced shrinking its route network.



They already got additional funding. They 'won' a public call from the Slovenian government to carry EU bureaucrats between Brussels and Ljubljana. Contract is worth €4.5 million.

So in about two weeks they secured €9.5.
 
SCQ83
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Re: Adria Airways (JP) sings LOI for 15 Superjets

Mon Nov 26, 2018 7:04 pm

Blerg wrote:
They already got additional funding. They 'won' a public call from the Slovenian government to carry EU bureaucrats between Brussels and Ljubljana. Contract is worth €4.5 million.

So in about two weeks they secured €9.5.


Another waste of money. Ryanair would happily fly BRU-LJU (they do the same with BRU-LCA). Or they could have paid Brussels Airlines.
 
Blerg
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Re: Adria Airways (JP) sings LOI for 15 Superjets

Mon Nov 26, 2018 7:10 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
Blerg wrote:
They already got additional funding. They 'won' a public call from the Slovenian government to carry EU bureaucrats between Brussels and Ljubljana. Contract is worth €4.5 million.

So in about two weeks they secured €9.5.


Another waste of money. Ryanair would happily fly BRU-LJU (they do the same with BRU-LCA). Or they could have paid Brussels Airlines.


Why would they pay SN? Aren't they loss making just like JP?

From what I understood they need frequencies, not capacity. I suppose FR couldn't do it.
 
runway23
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Re: Adria Airways (JP) sings LOI for 15 Superjets

Mon Nov 26, 2018 7:57 pm

Blerg wrote:

Why would they pay SN? Aren't they loss making just like JP?

From what I understood they need frequencies, not capacity. I suppose FR couldn't do it.


Well they wouldn't pay SN as the route was a convenient way to hand money to JP without being illegal under EU law.
 
Blerg
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Re: Adria Airways (JP) sings LOI for 15 Superjets

Mon Nov 26, 2018 8:15 pm

runway23 wrote:
Blerg wrote:

Why would they pay SN? Aren't they loss making just like JP?

From what I understood they need frequencies, not capacity. I suppose FR couldn't do it.


Well they wouldn't pay SN as the route was a convenient way to hand money to JP without being illegal under EU law.


Exactly, this was just a way for the Slovenian government to throw more money at JP. It's funny JP is resorting to such tricks while suing JU and EY over who controls the airline. Pathetic really.
 
anxo75
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Re: Adria Airways (JP) sings LOI for 15 Superjets

Tue Nov 27, 2018 9:35 am

JoKeR wrote:
So nearly bankrupt airline buys planes no one unfortunately wants. What a combo!

They should hire you as a CEO since you know what's best for them...I'd bet if they decided to buy some CRJ's or Embraers, there would be accolades everywhere and nobody would care about being "nearly bankrupt".
 
P1aneMad
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Re: Adria Airways (JP) signs LOI for 15 Superjets

Tue Nov 27, 2018 9:46 am

anxo75 wrote:
JoKeR wrote:
So nearly bankrupt airline buys planes no one unfortunately wants. What a combo!

They should hire you as a CEO since you know what's best for them...I'd bet if they decided to buy some CRJ's or Embraers, there would be accolades everywhere and nobody would care about being "nearly bankrupt".

We are trying to make a factual and honest discussion here. Putinbots angry at the fact that the SSj is an abysmally bad choice for an already financially weak airline are contributing nothing to said discussion.
Kindly move along to some other forums and blame the Ukrainians for something like you usually do.
 
Blerg
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Re: Adria Airways (JP) signs LOI for 15 Superjets

Tue Nov 27, 2018 9:48 am

P1aneMad wrote:
anxo75 wrote:
JoKeR wrote:
So nearly bankrupt airline buys planes no one unfortunately wants. What a combo!

They should hire you as a CEO since you know what's best for them...I'd bet if they decided to buy some CRJ's or Embraers, there would be accolades everywhere and nobody would care about being "nearly bankrupt".

We are trying to make a factual and honest discussion here. Putinbots angry at the fact that the SSj is an abysmally bad choice for an already financially weak airline are contributing nothing to said discussion.
Kindly move along to some other forums and blame the Ukrainians for something like you usually do.


Why are you bringing politics into this discussion? Kindly move along to some other forum and blame Putin for something like you usually do.
 
anxo75
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Re: Adria Airways (JP) signs LOI for 15 Superjets

Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:00 am

Blerg wrote:
P1aneMad wrote:
anxo75 wrote:
They should hire you as a CEO since you know what's best for them...I'd bet if they decided to buy some CRJ's or Embraers, there would be accolades everywhere and nobody would care about being "nearly bankrupt".

We are trying to make a factual and honest discussion here. Putinbots angry at the fact that the SSj is an abysmally bad choice for an already financially weak airline are contributing nothing to said discussion.
Kindly move along to some other forums and blame the Ukrainians for something like you usually do.


Why are you bringing politics into this discussion? Kindly move along to some other forum and blame Putin for something like you usually do.

I've never seen a forum thread related to the SSJ's that wasn't about politics...
 
Wayfarer515
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Re: Adria Airways (JP) signs LOI for 15 Superjets

Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:32 pm

Well, lets face it all aviation deals involve politics to a certain extent. What Adria Airways is trying to do cannot be criticized by anyone, lets just hope SCAC and Safran get their act together this time, I think this is the last call for Sukhoi to succeed in Europe.
 
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lollomz
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Re: Adria Airways (JP) signs LOI for 15 Superjets

Sat Dec 01, 2018 2:16 pm

I'm not sure I will see an Adria SSJ-100 in the future but..... time will tell about this opportunity!
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L410Turbolet
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Re: Adria Airways (JP) sings LOI for 15 Superjets

Mon Dec 31, 2018 2:22 am

anxo75 wrote:
JoKeR wrote:
So nearly bankrupt airline buys planes no one unfortunately wants. What a combo!

They should hire you as a CEO since you know what's best for them...I'd bet if they decided to buy some CRJ's or Embraers, there would be accolades everywhere and nobody would care about being "nearly bankrupt".


One has to question soundness of their judgment when they order an aircraft that is a commercial failure.
No lessons learned from Interjet or CityJet?
 
alfa164
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Re: Adria Airways (JP) sings LOI for 15 Superjets

Mon Dec 31, 2018 2:44 am

L410Turbolet wrote:
anxo75 wrote:
JoKeR wrote:
So nearly bankrupt airline buys planes no one unfortunately wants. What a combo!

They should hire you as a CEO since you know what's best for them...I'd bet if they decided to buy some CRJ's or Embraers, there would be accolades everywhere and nobody would care about being "nearly bankrupt".

One has to question soundness of their judgment when they order an aircraft that is a commercial failure.
No lessons learned from Interjet or CityJet?

:checkmark: This. But be ready for the Russian trolls to start whining "politics!" if you dare point out the history of failures of the liliPutin-jets...
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
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olddominion727
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Re: Adria Airways (JP) signs LOI for 15 Superjets

Mon Dec 31, 2018 2:56 am

the YUGO of airplanes.
 
Blerg
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Re: Adria Airways (JP) sings LOI for 15 Superjets

Mon Dec 31, 2018 7:09 am

L410Turbolet wrote:
anxo75 wrote:
JoKeR wrote:
So nearly bankrupt airline buys planes no one unfortunately wants. What a combo!

They should hire you as a CEO since you know what's best for them...I'd bet if they decided to buy some CRJ's or Embraers, there would be accolades everywhere and nobody would care about being "nearly bankrupt".


One has to question soundness of their judgment when they order an aircraft that is a commercial failure.
No lessons learned from Interjet or CityJet?


Well for starters the Russians will build a maintenance facility at LJU thus avoiding issues with spare parts. It's all in the first post.

First SSJ should be delivered to JP in April 2019.
 
BrianDromey
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Re: Adria Airways (JP) signs LOI for 15 Superjets

Mon Dec 31, 2018 10:02 am

The SSJ must be quite capital-light to acquire. CityJet weren’t exactly flush at the time either. A combination of not being LCY ready yet(!) and continued unreliability have made it difficult for CityJet. I think they have withdrawn most of the fleet from use.

I don’t think the SSJ is inherently a bad aircraft and is clearly a lot cheaper to acquire than competitors. Reliability is a huge problem and that is hugely expensive.
 
runway23
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Re: Adria Airways (JP) sings LOI for 15 Superjets

Mon Dec 31, 2018 10:08 am

Blerg wrote:
L410Turbolet wrote:
anxo75 wrote:
They should hire you as a CEO since you know what's best for them...I'd bet if they decided to buy some CRJ's or Embraers, there would be accolades everywhere and nobody would care about being "nearly bankrupt".


One has to question soundness of their judgment when they order an aircraft that is a commercial failure.
No lessons learned from Interjet or CityJet?


Well for starters the Russians will build a maintenance facility at LJU thus avoiding issues with spare parts. It's all in the first post.

First SSJ should be delivered to JP in April 2019.


It will be of limited use if their planes go tech at outstations that lack spare parts or basic maintenance. Most airports in Europe can fix an A320 or 737, the same can’t be said for the SSJ.

If the SSJ had proper support around Europe it could be a good alternative, but that isn’t the case. In the meantime SSJ will have to live off penny wise pound foolish orders/carriers like Adria or Cityjet.
 
eirflot
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Re: Adria Airways (JP) signs LOI for 15 Superjets

Mon Dec 31, 2018 10:10 am

I think sukhoi were not ready for any possible commercial success with the SSJ! The fact that all parts are used for production with no spare capacity does not help. Even the Italians gave up! It seems that for every 5 SSJ you buy you should get two free for spare parts
When the SSJ does operate guests seem to like the flight experience!
Shame really
See that a post without politics!!!!
 
mig21umd
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Re: Adria Airways (JP) signs LOI for 15 Superjets

Mon Dec 31, 2018 10:37 am

olddominion727 wrote:
the YUGO of airplanes.


Sometimes the YUGO air vents would metamorphose themselves into flamethrowers so I hope the Superjet doesn't get that bad.
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Re: Adria Airways (JP) signs LOI for 15 Superjets

Mon Dec 31, 2018 10:56 am

It's not a bad aircraft itself. The parts issue has killed it. If they get that figured out they could actually have a sound aircraft
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Re: Adria Airways (JP) signs LOI for 15 Superjets

Mon Dec 31, 2018 11:11 am

BrianDromey wrote:
The SSJ must be quite capital-light to acquire.

I don’t think the SSJ is inherently a bad aircraft and is clearly a lot cheaper to acquire than competitors. Reliability is a huge problem and that is hugely expensive.


If I recall correctly, the CEO of Interjet stated that their entire SSJ fleet cost as much as a single pre-production payment for a single A320. So, the cost to get into the plane is peanuts compared to the other options. The cost to operations on the other hand is quite high. The other aircraft on the market are capable of being utilized for 12-14+ hours per day. Last I heard, Interjet was getting an average of 3ish hours per day per frame, with a good number of the fleet grounded, providing spare parts for other aircraft.

With the MRO facility opening alongside Adria's hub, it's possible that they might actually get the manufacturer support they need to get the daily utilization numbers up to par with the other aircraft on the market. The SSJ is fundamentally a sound design - the weakness has always been the abysmal support network, the long waits for spare parts, exorbitant wait times for engine parts due to some issues with the Powerjet joint venture (mostly a Safran issue if the rumors are true)... etc. The MRO facility could be a game changer for the SSJ if Adria is able to utilize them properly...
 
alfa164
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Re: Adria Airways (JP) signs LOI for 15 Superjets

Mon Dec 31, 2018 11:22 am

OA940 wrote:
It's not a bad aircraft itself. The parts issue has killed it. If they get that figured out they could actually have a sound aircraft


If it isn't such a "bad aircraft", why would there be a parts issue? Good aircraft don't constantly need their parts replaced.

Siren wrote:
If I recall correctly, the CEO of Interjet stated that their entire SSJ fleet cost as much as a single pre-production payment for a single A320. So, the cost to get into the plane is peanuts compared to the other options. The cost to operations on the other hand is quite high. The other aircraft on the market are capable of being utilized for 12-14+ hours per day. Last I heard, Interjet was getting an average of 3ish hours per day per frame, with a good number of the fleet grounded, providing spare parts for other aircraft.


:checkmark: This. Buying cheap is always tempting - and it always seems to come back and bite you in the butt. "Cheap" is cheap for a reason.

olddominion727 wrote:
the YUGO of airplanes.


:lol:
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
P1aneMad
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Re: Adria Airways (JP) signs LOI for 15 Superjets

Mon Dec 31, 2018 11:28 am

Best of luck to Adria, they will need loads of it!
The SSJ is an aircraft that even if you get it for free you are paying too much.
 
lhrsfosyd
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Re: Adria Airways (JP) signs LOI for 15 Superjets

Mon Dec 31, 2018 1:14 pm

Lol you may as well throw the money down the drain.
 
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Re: Adria Airways (JP) signs LOI for 15 Superjets

Tue Jan 01, 2019 12:18 am

The acquisition costs are cheap for an SU95, but maintenance costs are a huge problem. The real problem is that without latching onto a larger enterprise, can airlines like JP and OU survive long-term? Other than PSOs, they don't run routes that can't be duplicated by another carrier. This is where an actually profitable airline should be brought in to manage them, like LOT (2017 profit of about $95M). The ideal aircraft for JP and OU would probably be the BCS1/BCS3, but they can hardly afford that (with turboprops on the PSO routes).
 
Blerg
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Re: Adria Airways (JP) signs LOI for 15 Superjets

Tue Jan 01, 2019 7:41 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
The acquisition costs are cheap for an SU95, but maintenance costs are a huge problem. The real problem is that without latching onto a larger enterprise, can airlines like JP and OU survive long-term? Other than PSOs, they don't run routes that can't be duplicated by another carrier. This is where an actually profitable airline should be brought in to manage them, like LOT (2017 profit of about $95M). The ideal aircraft for JP and OU would probably be the BCS1/BCS3, but they can hardly afford that (with turboprops on the PSO routes).


JP was privatized some time ago, they are owned by 4K. The Croatian government has regularly tried to do the same with OU but there were no takers. I think both Slovenian and Croatian governments would do anything in order to protect their national carriers. Imagine the horror if their airlines went bust while JU survived... (sarcasm)

By the way, the Slovenian government knows that letting JP go would probably cost them the election. That is why they initially overpaid to buy the Adria brand and now they made a bogus call for LJU-BRU tickets for government officials. One way or another, they will find a way to throw cash at them.
 
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Re: Adria Airways (JP) signs LOI for 15 Superjets

Thu Feb 28, 2019 12:29 pm

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Wingtips56
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Re: Adria Airways (JP) signs LOI for 15 Superjets

Fri Mar 01, 2019 12:58 am

I find the original post interesting, in that it seems to report that the SSJ would be used for Adria branded flights, freeing up the CRJ and Airbus equipment for ACMI flying. From reports on issues here and elsewhere about SSJ dispatch reliability, does that imply that they are OK for Adria's exposure, warts and all, but they would use the CRJ/Airbus for the ACMI flying when they might be held more accountable for it or lose the contracts?
Worked for WestAir, Apollo Airways, Desert Pacific, Western, AirCal and American Airlines (Retired). Flight Memory: 181 airports, 92 airlines, 78 a/c types, 403 routes, 58 countries (by air), 6 continents. 1,119,414 passenger miles.

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Blerg
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Re: Adria Airways (JP) signs LOI for 15 Superjets

Fri Mar 01, 2019 5:59 am

Wingtips56 wrote:
I find the original post interesting, in that it seems to report that the SSJ would be used for Adria branded flights, freeing up the CRJ and Airbus equipment for ACMI flying. From reports on issues here and elsewhere about SSJ dispatch reliability, does that imply that they are OK for Adria's exposure, warts and all, but they would use the CRJ/Airbus for the ACMI flying when they might be held more accountable for it or lose the contracts?


We will have to see what happens, deliveries of SSJs coincide with the expiration of the leases for the CRJ fleet. If they don't renew them then they would be switching to an all SSJ fleet plus some A319.
 
bhxalex
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Re: Adria Airways (JP) signs LOI for 15 Superjets

Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:25 am

15 aircraft to do the work of 5?

If the maintenance and support isn't 10/10 then this a catastrophic error of judgment. It's not a bad aircraft, not a great one either. But the fiasco with lack of support and maintenance for Interjet and Cityjet I'm shocked JP are going anywhere near it.

Wait until W6 or FR take a shine to LJU and we'll say bye-bye to JP.
 
Blerg
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Re: Adria Airways (JP) signs LOI for 15 Superjets

Fri Mar 01, 2019 8:15 am

bhxalex wrote:
15 aircraft to do the work of 5?

If the maintenance and support isn't 10/10 then this a catastrophic error of judgment. It's not a bad aircraft, not a great one either. But the fiasco with lack of support and maintenance for Interjet and Cityjet I'm shocked JP are going anywhere near it.

Wait until W6 or FR take a shine to LJU and we'll say bye-bye to JP.


Well Wizz Air has been flying to Ljubljana from both Brussels and London for years now and they haven't added many new frequencies. I think the market isn't that big for them to bother fighting for it. They fly from places where there is enough demand for them to fill their planes without bothering too much about it all.

I am more interested to see how Berlin with easyJet performs.
 
ewt340
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Re: Adria Airways (JP) signs LOI for 15 Superjets

Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:45 am

They got all the plane for free. Obviously.
 
bhxalex
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Re: Adria Airways (JP) signs LOI for 15 Superjets

Fri Mar 01, 2019 12:04 pm

Blerg wrote:
bhxalex wrote:
15 aircraft to do the work of 5?

If the maintenance and support isn't 10/10 then this a catastrophic error of judgment. It's not a bad aircraft, not a great one either. But the fiasco with lack of support and maintenance for Interjet and Cityjet I'm shocked JP are going anywhere near it.

Wait until W6 or FR take a shine to LJU and we'll say bye-bye to JP.


Well Wizz Air has been flying to Ljubljana from both Brussels and London for years now and they haven't added many new frequencies. I think the market isn't that big for them to bother fighting for it. They fly from places where there is enough demand for them to fill their planes without bothering too much about it all.

I am more interested to see how Berlin with easyJet performs.



With all the aircraft W6 has on order I'd be shocked if we didn't see a base created in the next few years. The LJU market is small but a couple of based aircraft isn't a daft idea. Slovenia is an incredible country and certainly one of Europe's least known gems, it will have its time as one of the 'in trend' places to visit soon enough. A couple of weekly flights to major European cities shouldn't be too difficult to fill, especially in summer.

Whilst not exactly low hanging fruit, it has a lot of potential to be a LCC base and JP wouldn't stand a chance.
 
Blerg
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Re: Adria Airways (JP) signs LOI for 15 Superjets

Fri Mar 01, 2019 3:30 pm

bhxalex wrote:
Blerg wrote:
bhxalex wrote:
15 aircraft to do the work of 5?

If the maintenance and support isn't 10/10 then this a catastrophic error of judgment. It's not a bad aircraft, not a great one either. But the fiasco with lack of support and maintenance for Interjet and Cityjet I'm shocked JP are going anywhere near it.

Wait until W6 or FR take a shine to LJU and we'll say bye-bye to JP.


Well Wizz Air has been flying to Ljubljana from both Brussels and London for years now and they haven't added many new frequencies. I think the market isn't that big for them to bother fighting for it. They fly from places where there is enough demand for them to fill their planes without bothering too much about it all.

I am more interested to see how Berlin with easyJet performs.



With all the aircraft W6 has on order I'd be shocked if we didn't see a base created in the next few years. The LJU market is small but a couple of based aircraft isn't a daft idea. Slovenia is an incredible country and certainly one of Europe's least known gems, it will have its time as one of the 'in trend' places to visit soon enough. A couple of weekly flights to major European cities shouldn't be too difficult to fill, especially in summer.

Whilst not exactly low hanging fruit, it has a lot of potential to be a LCC base and JP wouldn't stand a chance.


Though I agree with you I think it will be a while before they expand in LJU. They haven't had much success in ex-YU with the exception of SKP where their operations were kickstarted with a lot of government subventions. Their operations in BEG have stagnated for a while now, TZL is shrinking, INI has been so-so so I don't know how adventurous they are at this point.

What we might see is more flights being added to LJU from other bases across western Europe. Would be interesting to see what would happen if they would launch LJU-VIE, I think that would destroy JP on that route.
 
bhxalex
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Re: Adria Airways (JP) signs LOI for 15 Superjets

Fri Mar 01, 2019 5:30 pm

Blerg wrote:
bhxalex wrote:
Blerg wrote:

Well Wizz Air has been flying to Ljubljana from both Brussels and London for years now and they haven't added many new frequencies. I think the market isn't that big for them to bother fighting for it. They fly from places where there is enough demand for them to fill their planes without bothering too much about it all.

I am more interested to see how Berlin with easyJet performs.



With all the aircraft W6 has on order I'd be shocked if we didn't see a base created in the next few years. The LJU market is small but a couple of based aircraft isn't a daft idea. Slovenia is an incredible country and certainly one of Europe's least known gems, it will have its time as one of the 'in trend' places to visit soon enough. A couple of weekly flights to major European cities shouldn't be too difficult to fill, especially in summer.

Whilst not exactly low hanging fruit, it has a lot of potential to be a LCC base and JP wouldn't stand a chance.


Though I agree with you I think it will be a while before they expand in LJU. They haven't had much success in ex-YU with the exception of SKP where their operations were kickstarted with a lot of government subventions. Their operations in BEG have stagnated for a while now, TZL is shrinking, INI has been so-so so I don't know how adventurous they are at this point.

What we might see is more flights being added to LJU from other bases across western Europe. Would be interesting to see what would happen if they would launch LJU-VIE, I think that would destroy JP on that route.



Its worth noting LJU has more tourist potential than TZL, INI & SKP, which rely more so on VFR traffic.

LJU- BCN/MAD/BVA/LPL/DTM/SXF/EIN/BGY & CIA all have the potential for atleast 2 weekly flights.

VIE would seem a logical add for W6 even at sub daily frequencies. They would almost certainly wipe JP off the route, as i can't see there being enough daily premium traffic to offset losing the p2p economy traffic even if W6 wasn't daily. Likewise there are few OS VIE connections that can't be done via other *A partners at FRA/MUC/ZRH/BRU/CPH.
 
Blerg
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Re: Adria Airways (JP) signs LOI for 15 Superjets

Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:00 pm

bhxalex wrote:
Blerg wrote:
bhxalex wrote:


With all the aircraft W6 has on order I'd be shocked if we didn't see a base created in the next few years. The LJU market is small but a couple of based aircraft isn't a daft idea. Slovenia is an incredible country and certainly one of Europe's least known gems, it will have its time as one of the 'in trend' places to visit soon enough. A couple of weekly flights to major European cities shouldn't be too difficult to fill, especially in summer.

Whilst not exactly low hanging fruit, it has a lot of potential to be a LCC base and JP wouldn't stand a chance.


Though I agree with you I think it will be a while before they expand in LJU. They haven't had much success in ex-YU with the exception of SKP where their operations were kickstarted with a lot of government subventions. Their operations in BEG have stagnated for a while now, TZL is shrinking, INI has been so-so so I don't know how adventurous they are at this point.

What we might see is more flights being added to LJU from other bases across western Europe. Would be interesting to see what would happen if they would launch LJU-VIE, I think that would destroy JP on that route.



Its worth noting LJU has more tourist potential than TZL, INI & SKP, which rely more so on VFR traffic.

LJU- BCN/MAD/BVA/LPL/DTM/SXF/EIN/BGY & CIA all have the potential for atleast 2 weekly flights.

VIE would seem a logical add for W6 even at sub daily frequencies. They would almost certainly wipe JP off the route, as i can't see there being enough daily premium traffic to offset losing the p2p economy traffic even if W6 wasn't daily. Likewise there are few OS VIE connections that can't be done via other *A partners at FRA/MUC/ZRH/BRU/CPH.



LJU might have more tourism potential but there is also more competition both at LJU and from neighbouring airports such as Trieste or Zagreb. Would be interesting to know why Wizz Air is ignoring this market and why they are not adding more flights.

As for VIE, I think they would take away some O&D passengers which would erode JP's yields thus forcing them out. Adria is an easy prey, look at how fast Aeroflot pushed them out.
 
anxo75
Posts: 51
Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:40 pm

Re: Adria Airways (JP) signs LOI for 15 Superjets

Sat Mar 02, 2019 10:24 am

bhxalex wrote:
15 aircraft to do the work of 5?

If the maintenance and support isn't 10/10 then this a catastrophic error of judgment. It's not a bad aircraft, not a great one either. But the fiasco with lack of support and maintenance for Interjet and Cityjet I'm shocked JP are going anywhere near it.

Wait until W6 or FR take a shine to LJU and we'll say bye-bye to JP.

Could you please give me an example of a "great" regional aircraft?
 
bhxalex
Posts: 178
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Re: Adria Airways (JP) signs LOI for 15 Superjets

Sat Mar 02, 2019 2:58 pm

anxo75 wrote:
bhxalex wrote:
15 aircraft to do the work of 5?

If the maintenance and support isn't 10/10 then this a catastrophic error of judgment. It's not a bad aircraft, not a great one either. But the fiasco with lack of support and maintenance for Interjet and Cityjet I'm shocked JP are going anywhere near it.

Wait until W6 or FR take a shine to LJU and we'll say bye-bye to JP.

Could you please give me an example of a "great" regional aircraft?


We could argue the toss over what 'great' means. But there's a lot of airlines happy with E170/75/90/95, and not so many happy with the SSJ. Even SU flys them quite sparsely.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Adria Airways (JP) sings LOI for 15 Superjets

Sat Mar 02, 2019 3:01 pm

FlyRow wrote:
Brave.

To quote CS Forester: "'But remember this. You'll find it hard to perform your duty unless you risk your ship. There's folly and there's foolhardiness on one side, and there's daring and calculation on the other. Make the right choice and I'll see you through any trouble that may ensue.'"

There just hasn't been the required support. I'm sorry to say, I would not invest in any airline purchasing the SU100.


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mach144
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Re: Adria Airways (JP) signs LOI for 15 Superjets

Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:09 pm

Adria cancelled a letter of intent to buy Sukhois...

https://www.24ur.com/novice/gospodarstv ... letal.html (in Slovene language)

Adria decided not to buy 15 Sukhoi Superjets after negotiation about long and stable partnership with Russian SCAC failed.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Adria Airways (JP) signs LOI for 15 Superjets

Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:18 pm

BrianDromey wrote:

I don’t think the SSJ is inherently a bad aircraft and is clearly a lot cheaper to acquire than competitors. Reliability is a huge problem and that is hugely expensive.

Interjet reported the SSJ didn't have more issues, it was just grounded longer.

This could be the maintenance standard. Modern aircraft have predictive maintenance to reduce missed dispatches. I do not recall reading about such capability in the SSJ.

Bad is relative. Unfortunately the CRJ and e-jets have good dispatch reliability; unfortunate for SSJ relative economics.

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Wayfarer515
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Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 1:56 pm

Re: Adria Airways (JP) signs LOI for 15 Superjets

Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:43 pm

Strange turn of events especially when 2 SSJ airframes had already been registered in Adria's fleet a few days ago but now they are not there anymore.
 
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TripleDelta
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Re: Adria Airways (JP) signs LOI for 15 Superjets

Wed Apr 03, 2019 6:43 am

mach144 wrote:
Adria cancelled a letter of intent to buy Sukhois...

https://www.24ur.com/novice/gospodarstv ... letal.html (in Slovene language)

Adria decided not to buy 15 Sukhoi Superjets after negotiation about long and stable partnership with Russian SCAC failed.


Seems to be confirmed by ch-aviation as well: https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... s-ssj-deal
Hawkeye: "It doesn't make any sense."
Radar: "Well, none of it makes any sense. You just have to send in the right number of forms." - MASH 4077

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