I heard a few rumours around of Westjet starting an Edinburgh service next summer and I thought it deserves its own thread as this would be an interesting development.
Any thoughts?

Where did you hear this rumour from?

I think EDI makes sense as it is a decent sized city well within range of the Max. Other cities I could see included in a WS European expansion are SNN, KEF, and MAN.

They already fly YHZ-GLA.

Have they considered the APD? After all, this was the very reason Norwegian pulled out of Edinburgh for TATL flights (shifting them to Dublin which is APD-free) and I guess this applies to them as well. I can see them adding more Irish destinations and maybe try mainland Europe before they burn their feet at the UK.

not sure it needs a seperate thread given there are two already with previous mention

PatrickZ80 wrote:

Have they considered the APD? After all, this was the very reason Norwegian pulled out of Edinburgh for TATL flights (shifting them to Dublin which is APD-free) and I guess this applies to them as well. I can see them adding more Irish destinations and maybe try mainland Europe before they burn their feet at the UK.

Good Lord, the APD isn’t a route killer, just a convenient excuse.

Not to mention I would think they are smart enough to look at the whole picture, not just ignore that detail

jetblueguy22 wrote:

Good Lord, the APD isn’t a route killer, just a convenient excuse.

However it does make a big difference in price.

I've just compared flights on Norwegian from Dublin to New York Stewart and from Edinburgh to New York Stewart in february 2019. From Dublin it's € 119 one-way, from Edinburgh it's € 190,80 one-way. That's € 71,80 difference, quite a lot I would say. If you take into consideration that a flight Edinburgh - Dublin on Ryanair costs € 14,67, you save € 57,13 by transfering in Dublin versus a direct flight. That's exactly what most people do and as a result of that there's far more demand at Dublin than there is at Edinburgh.

I have my doubts WS would use it's limited TATL resources to operate into two Scottish airports that are less than 50 mile apart.

History has shown that WJ likes to connect the dots as they grow.

First YHZ-CDG, now YYC-CDG,

YHZ- GLA, next is Y??-GLA.

Fill in the blanks.

PatrickZ80 wrote:

Have they considered the APD? After all, this was the very reason Norwegian pulled out of Edinburgh for TATL flights (shifting them to Dublin which is APD-free) and I guess this applies to them as well. I can see them adding more Irish destinations and maybe try mainland Europe before they burn their feet at the UK.

You ALWAYS say this. APD is just the cost of doing business and yes they will have considered that. Norwegian did not shift the EDI flights to DUB, the Scottish government had initially signalled it would waive APD but didn’t. The market was fairly weak to begin with, Scotland remains fragmented GLA/EDI whereas DUB frankly dominates the whole island of Ireland. D8 have also dropped BFS and ORK remains a toe in the water IMHO.
Canada remains underserved from EDI, TS only flew once weekly then walked away, and ROU is 4 weekly EDI and 3 weekly GLA summer peak.

PatrickZ80 wrote:

jetblueguy22 wrote:

Good Lord, the APD isn’t a route killer, just a convenient excuse.

However it does make a big difference in price.

I've just compared flights on Norwegian from Dublin to New York Stewart and from Edinburgh to New York Stewart in february 2019. From Dublin it's € 119 one-way, from Edinburgh it's € 190,80 one-way. That's € 71,80 difference, quite a lot I would say. If you take into consideration that a flight Edinburgh - Dublin on Ryanair costs € 14,67, you save € 57,13 by transfering in Dublin versus a direct flight. That's exactly what most people do and as a result of that there's far more demand at Dublin than there is at Edinburgh.

This is rubbish.
Most people do not self connect using 3rd party carriers. Stop making stuff up mate.
Where are you even based Patrickz80. You shouls visit the UK at least once I feel

I understand PDL is in the mix?

https://azores1.blogspot.com/2018/11/ca ... ponta.html

I understand PDL is in the mix?

https://azores1.blogspot.com/2018/11/ca ... ponta.html

I understand PDL is in the mix?

https://azores1.blogspot.com/2018/11/ca ... ponta.html

PatrickZ80 wrote:

jetblueguy22 wrote:

Good Lord, the APD isn’t a route killer, just a convenient excuse.

However it does make a big difference in price.

I've just compared flights on Norwegian from Dublin to New York Stewart and from Edinburgh to New York Stewart in february 2019. From Dublin it's € 119 one-way, from Edinburgh it's € 190,80 one-way. That's € 71,80 difference, quite a lot I would say. If you take into consideration that a flight Edinburgh - Dublin on Ryanair costs € 14,67, you save € 57,13 by transfering in Dublin versus a direct flight. That's exactly what most people do and as a result of that there's far more demand at Dublin than there is at Edinburgh.

I really doubt people do that...for the sake of just €57?? You could probably spend €20 euros on food or drink at Dublin when you’re waiting around for your next flight! I don’t think that amount is enough to justify people flying via somewhere else. Anything €100-150+, maybe...but not €57. If you’re someone who can afford to fly on a long-haul trip to begin with, I think they can afford an extra €57 to have the convenience of flying non-stop!

8herveg wrote:

PatrickZ80 wrote:

jetblueguy22 wrote:

Good Lord, the APD isn’t a route killer, just a convenient excuse.

However it does make a big difference in price.

I've just compared flights on Norwegian from Dublin to New York Stewart and from Edinburgh to New York Stewart in february 2019. From Dublin it's € 119 one-way, from Edinburgh it's € 190,80 one-way. That's € 71,80 difference, quite a lot I would say. If you take into consideration that a flight Edinburgh - Dublin on Ryanair costs € 14,67, you save € 57,13 by transfering in Dublin versus a direct flight. That's exactly what most people do and as a result of that there's far more demand at Dublin than there is at Edinburgh.

I really doubt people do that...for the sake of just €57?? You could probably spend €20 euros on food or drink at Dublin when you’re waiting around for your next flight! I don’t think that amount is enough to justify people flying via somewhere else. Anything €100-150+, maybe...but not €57. If you’re someone who can afford to fly on a long-haul trip to begin with, I think they can afford an extra €57 to have the convenience of flying non-stop!

I absolutely agree, if 57 Euros make a difference to your overseas holiday budget, then you can obviously not really afford it and I would suggest you stay at home !

PatrickZ80 wrote:

jetblueguy22 wrote:

Good Lord, the APD isn’t a route killer, just a convenient excuse.

However it does make a big difference in price.

I've just compared flights on Norwegian from Dublin to New York Stewart and from Edinburgh to New York Stewart in february 2019. From Dublin it's € 119 one-way, from Edinburgh it's € 190,80 one-way. That's € 71,80 difference, quite a lot I would say. If you take into consideration that a flight Edinburgh - Dublin on Ryanair costs € 14,67, you save € 57,13 by transfering in Dublin versus a direct flight. That's exactly what most people do and as a result of that there's far more demand at Dublin than there is at Edinburgh.

It should be “more supply” but not “more demand”

8herveg wrote:

PatrickZ80 wrote:

jetblueguy22 wrote:

Good Lord, the APD isn’t a route killer, just a convenient excuse.

However it does make a big difference in price.

I've just compared flights on Norwegian from Dublin to New York Stewart and from Edinburgh to New York Stewart in february 2019. From Dublin it's € 119 one-way, from Edinburgh it's € 190,80 one-way. That's € 71,80 difference, quite a lot I would say. If you take into consideration that a flight Edinburgh - Dublin on Ryanair costs € 14,67, you save € 57,13 by transfering in Dublin versus a direct flight. That's exactly what most people do and as a result of that there's far more demand at Dublin than there is at Edinburgh.

I really doubt people do that...for the sake of just €57?? You could probably spend €20 euros on food or drink at Dublin when you’re waiting around for your next flight! I don’t think that amount is enough to justify people flying via somewhere else. Anything €100-150+, maybe...but not €57. If you’re someone who can afford to fly on a long-haul trip to begin with, I think they can afford an extra €57 to have the convenience of flying non-stop!

O

€57 x family of 4 = € 228 , makes a big difference

APD is killing everywhere except London. And it’s making Dublin boom .... long may it continue

Galwayman wrote:

APD is killing everywhere except London. And it’s making Dublin boom .... long may it continue

It’s not killing everywhere. EDI and MAN in particular are doing very well, the latter very much so going east/south.

BWIAirport wrote:

I think EDI makes sense as it is a decent sized city well within range of the Max. Other cities I could see included in a WS European expansion are SNN, KEF, and MAN.

EDI is in fact a very small city but not sure what the relevance is to viability. The range of the MAX isn't necessarily relevant either, WestJet already operate YHZ-GLA on the NG.

skipness1E wrote:

This is rubbish.
Most people do not self connect using 3rd party carriers. Stop making stuff up mate.
Where are you even based Patrickz80. You shouls visit the UK at least once I feel

I'm based in the Netherlands, and I guess it's true what they say about the Dutch being stingy.

I have visited the UK multiple times. It's a beautiful country, but very expensive. And the weird thing is, the British don't seem to care about that. It's unbelievable how much money they throw away that they can easily save.

8herveg wrote:

I really doubt people do that...for the sake of just €57?? You could probably spend €20 euros on food or drink at Dublin when you’re waiting around for your next flight! I don’t think that amount is enough to justify people flying via somewhere else. Anything €100-150+, maybe...but not €57. If you’re someone who can afford to fly on a long-haul trip to begin with, I think they can afford an extra €57 to have the convenience of flying non-stop!

€ 20 on food and drinks? That's a whole lot, far too much in my opinion. I know airports are expensive, but certainly not that expensive. Allright, you probably have a drink for € 5 and a sandwich you brought from home in your hand luggage. Except for the drink, you'd have that anyway. And whatever you buy on board you'd have bought anyway, so no cost savings there.

However this is of course my Dutch way of thinking, always watching the money and seeing if you can save on anything by doing it different. Never take a price for granted, always finding ways to undercut it. Of course if needed I could afford it, but I'm not going to spend more money than I have to. It's like a sport, finding the very cheapest possibility.

Galwayman wrote:

APD is killing everywhere except London. And it’s making Dublin boom .... long may it continue

It may not kill London, but it's certainly harming it. For example when it comes to self-transfers, the APD makes that London is never the cheapest option. This makes that self-transfers take place elsewhere in Europe instead of London.

Not too long ago I went on holiday to Los Angeles. Of course seeking the cheapest possibility I flew Norwegian, but not from Gatwick. Technically it was possible, I could have flown EasyJet from Amsterdam to Gatwick and self-connect there to Norwegian to Los Angeles. However it turned out a self-connect in Copenhagen was cheaper. The reason is obvious, Denmark doesn't have APD. This made that I spent money on a meal and drink prior to the flight in Copenhagen instead of in London. A missed opportunity for London. On the return flight again, I could have self-transfered in Gatwick. I didn't, I self-transfered in Barcelona instead. Spent money on food and drink there. Again London got nothing.

Now suppose the UK didn't have APD, those self-transfer options in Gatwick might have been the cheapest and I might have self-transfered there. But that wasn't the case. That's what I mean the APD is harming London. London could make more money, but doesn't.

digitalcloud wrote:

EDI is in fact a very small city.

Huh? What sort of cities have you been to? It's not huge sure, but its not nearly as small as small as you make it out to be.

Nearly 3 million intl visitors to Scotland last year and almost 500k of those from North America. Edinburgh is an important inbound and outbound market.

Guys now back on topic, I think the Max8 would be a perfect fit for Edinburgh as Im sure Scotland can sustain 2 flights to Canada during the winter and 4 in the summer.

What's APD?

Noise wrote:

What's APD?

GOOGLE is your friend!

APD Air Passenger Duty

Search it because personally I can't be bothered to explain!

mullac30 wrote:

digitalcloud wrote:

EDI is in fact a very small city.

Huh? What sort of cities have you been to? It's not huge sure, but its not nearly as small as small as you make it out to be.

Well, Edinburgh. My point being that I'm not sure the author of the post I was referring to has a reasonable idea of how big it is. Moving on...

Noise wrote:

What's APD?

Air passenger duty - departure tax in the UK

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Passenger_Duty

Noise wrote:

What's APD?

Ask PatrickZ80.
He’s a zealout on the subject matter every thread on UK aviation has him loudly proclaiming APD means the UK just doesn’t compete for connections nowadays. Bit like John the Baptist with a sandwich board asking you to repent....anyhoo.
This assertion may be true of the super price sensitive cohort only, the ones airlines don’t really want too many of.

APD is a tax applied on certain air tickets booked ex UK as the Chancellor sought to close the budget deficit. A new tax that means UK-long haul became a bit more pricey which some posters believe means that UK aviation is uncompetitve now. But to get round it often involves an easyJet/ RYANAIR unprotected self connection which apparently “everyone now does” except the evidence to prove it is all in the mind of some....

There has been rumor of YEG (Edmonton) gaining a new European destination... I wouldn't think Scotland would be it but anything is possible... OF COURSE I have no link or shred of source, just typical banter.

loonytoon44 wrote:

There has been rumor of YEG (Edmonton) gaining a new European destination... I wouldn't think Scotland would be it but anything is possible... OF COURSE I have no link or shred of source, just typical banter.

The last sentence sums up this thread.

Having said that, Alberta has a significant Scottish population, but would be surprised to see a non-stop link.

skipness1E wrote:

PatrickZ80 wrote:

Have they considered the APD? After all, this was the very reason Norwegian pulled out of Edinburgh for TATL flights (shifting them to Dublin which is APD-free) and I guess this applies to them as well. I can see them adding more Irish destinations and maybe try mainland Europe before they burn their feet at the UK.

You ALWAYS say this. APD is just the cost of doing business and yes they will have considered that. Norwegian did not shift the EDI flights to DUB, the Scottish government had initially signalled it would waive APD but didn’t. The market was fairly weak to begin with, Scotland remains fragmented GLA/EDI whereas DUB frankly dominates the whole island of Ireland. D8 have also dropped BFS and ORK remains a toe in the water IMHO.
Canada remains underserved from EDI, TS only flew once weekly then walked away, and ROU is 4 weekly EDI and 3 weekly GLA summer peak.

SKIP

How many times do you have to reply to this Dutch guy about APD doesn't he realise that yourself and others are going to read his continuous rants about it are getting rather tedious and he still bangs on about it he is relentless and considering that us British don't complain about it because we are used to it by now and we fully accept it as part of our airfares but it's amazing that someone who's not even based in the UK has a huge issue regarding the United Kingdom's APD.

The Dutchmans posts are usually very informative and tend to be extremely nteresting to read but as soon as I read his posts with APD mentioned I just cut off because I just can't put off with his continuous dribble it's annoying to say the least.

But I have absolute respect for you mate I really do and the fact you respond in the way that you do is absolutely excellent

Your an absolute star on these forums and I feel that in real life we would really get on

PlaneMad134 wrote:

I heard a few rumours around of Westjet starting an Edinburgh service next summer and I thought it deserves its own thread as this would be an interesting development.
Any thoughts?

You have now started your own thread and you have posted the same ''rumour'' on other threads but you have given absolutely no source for this rumour and where you supposedly ''heard'' it from, I think that we would all appreciate it if you actually informed us from where you actually ''heard'' it from!

Hearing a rumour is one thing because anyone can start a rumour but there has to be some substance for a rumour to be started in the first place which in this case you have not provided.

Until we are all proven wrong and an official confirmation by Westjet or EDINBURGH airport is released regarding these so called ''rumours'' I think that we can all safely assume that this is your own personal rumour!

The rumour I heard was from people inside the airport and on various other threads so on that basis I think its a true rumour with a background to it.

PlaneMad134 wrote:

The rumour I heard was from people inside the airport and on various other threads so on that basis I think its a true rumour with a background to it.

What's a "true" rumour?

1. A rumour that was collected from some other source rather than just arising out of one's own fertile imagination?
2. A rumour that actually contains some verifiable, factual information?

If (1), then I certainly wouldn't use "true" as a modifier.
If (2), then what specific material is verifiable?

PlaneMad134 wrote:

The rumour I heard was from people inside the airport and on various other threads so on that basis I think its a true rumour with a background to it.

I'm afraid that still doesn't make it true as I mentioned before anyone and I mean anyone can start a rumour so on that basis'' it doesn't confirm as being a ''true rumour''

No rumour is TRUE until it is officially confirmed.

Now let's get real here and disregarding what you read (not heard how can say that when you state that you heard it if you had actually read it, there is a difference between hearing and reading) on other threads and who are these individuals from within the airport that you actually ''heard'' it from!

If these people from the airport have any seniority or are involved in negotiations with Westjet could you please elaborate because a lot of people within an airport usually haven't a clue what's actually going on unless they are part of the management team.

I really want to be proven wrong concerning this but so far you have not given any real substance whatsoever to backup this so called ''true rumour''

Perhaps being PLANEMAD and obviously an EDI fanboy you obviously want to accept this rumour as a ''true rumour'' because it's something that you personally want to believe in.

Until Westjet officially announce to the world that they are actually going to be flying to Edinburgh in summer 2019 we can take the rumour as a very large pinch of salt!

The only thing I can see here is if Westjet discontinued Glasgow in favour of Edinburgh and as others have pointed out why would they serve both with their limited resources!

It seems that the only background to this is that you enjoy posting rumours!

Until then I await that official announcement from Westjet and Edinburgh Airport and if it turns out to be true well you've won the argument and I'll take my hat off to you.

Cunard wrote:

PlaneMad134 wrote:

The rumour I heard was from people inside the airport and on various other threads so on that basis I think its a true rumour with a background to it.

I'm afraid that still doesn't make it true as I mentioned before anyone and I mean anyone can start a rumour so on that basis'' it doesn't confirm as being a ''true rumour''

No rumour is TRUE until it is officially confirmed.

Now let's get real here and disregarding what you read (not heard how can say that when you state that you heard it if you had actually read it, there is a difference between hearing and reading) on other threads and who are these individuals from within the airport that you actually ''heard'' it from!

If these people from the airport have any seniority or are involved in negotiations with Westjet could you please elaborate because a lot of people within an airport usually haven't a clue what's actually going on unless they are part of the management team.

I really want to be proven wrong concerning this but so far you have not given any real substance whatsoever to backup this so called ''true rumour''

Perhaps being PLANEMAD and obviously an EDI fanboy you obviously want to accept this rumour as a ''true rumour'' because it's something that you personally want to believe in.

Until Westjet officially announce to the world that they are actually going to be flying to Edinburgh in summer 2019 we can take the rumour as a very large pinch of salt!

The only thing I can see here is if Westjet discontinued Glasgow in favour of Edinburgh and as others have pointed out why would they serve both with their limited resources!

It seems that the only background to this is that you enjoy posting rumours!

Until then I await that official announcement from Westjet and Edinburgh Airport and if it turns out to be true well you've won the argument and I'll take my hat off to you.

To be fair he did mention on another forum that DL were going to launch EDI-BOS a few weeks before the announcement, although it would not be the most preposterous guess to make with a bit of luck. He also claimed that they would be flying 763s on the route when in reality it was the 752.

While it is a rumour, I’ve heard the same from a pretty reliable source. We will have to wait and see but EDI only has a seasonal 4-weekly service to Canada so plenty scope for more.

There is no doubt that Glasgow has a larger population in both the city boundary (+20%) and in the greater conurbation surrounding ( at least double) however Edinburgh's passenger figures are impressive for a "small" city. Indeed the airport has just recorded 6 consecutive months with passenger figures over 1.3 million each, and the rolling total for the 12 months up to and including October '18 is just shy of 14.1 million. This means that it is busier than Birmingham and approaching Luton's size and is at least 35% busier than Glasgow airport . It is also the biggest tourist market in the UK outside of London and the biggest financial centre in the UK outside London. Routes chop and change all the time, but if you think it can't support another seasonal flight from Canada I think you are sorely mistaken.

It may well be a small city compared to Glasgow but you have to take into account that Edinburgh is the capital of Scotland which does make a lot of difference.

But as myself and others have already pointed out we will have to wait and see if Westjet do officially announce Edinburgh for summer 2019 as there is absolutely no guarantee that they will despite the unfounded ''rumours'' being banded about by certain individuals!