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LAXintl
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Alaska considering joining OW

Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:15 pm

From investor event today:

Alaska Airlines is considering joining the Oneworld marketing alliance dominated by American Airlines, British Airways, and Qantas, though likely not as a full-fledged member, its chief commercial officer told investment analysts on Tuesday.

Alaska is the only one of the six largest North American airlines not tied to one of the three major global alliances.

The disclosure comes as Alaska seeks to bolster its global offerings without buying wide-body aircraft or flying farther abroad than Costa Rica. It knows its core customers in Seattle, San Francisco and Los Angeles often fly long-haul routes, and it would prefer those customers fly Alaska’s partners to do so, rather than United Airlines or Delta Air Lines.

“There’s a Oneworld Connect membership that we’re looking it,” chief commercial officer Andrew Harrison told analysts. “The whole goal here is to ensure that when people in the cities we serve travel internationally they are on our partners so they stay in our program.



Alaska Airlines Hints It May Finally Join the Oneworld Alliance
https://skift.com/2018/11/27/alaska-air ... -alliance/

=


Might not be a bad idea, even for AA by helping strengthen its West Coast customer base.
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stl07
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Re: Alaska considering joining OW

Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:17 pm

I'm not so sure the authorities will be too keen on it since they already restricted the AA AS partnership
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BoeingGuy
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Re: Alaska considering joining OW

Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:19 pm

LAXintl wrote:
From investor event today:

Alaska Airlines is considering joining the Oneworld marketing alliance dominated by American Airlines, British Airways, and Qantas, though likely not as a full-fledged member, its chief commercial officer told investment analysts on Tuesday.

Alaska is the only one of the six largest North American airlines not tied to one of the three major global alliances.

The disclosure comes as Alaska seeks to bolster its global offerings without buying wide-body aircraft or flying farther abroad than Costa Rica. It knows its core customers in Seattle, San Francisco and Los Angeles often fly long-haul routes, and it would prefer those customers fly Alaska’s partners to do so, rather than United Airlines or Delta Air Lines.

“There’s a Oneworld Connect membership that we’re looking it,” chief commercial officer Andrew Harrison told analysts. “The whole goal here is to ensure that when people in the cities we serve travel internationally they are on our partners so they stay in our program.



Alaska Airlines Hints It May Finally Join the Oneworld Alliance
https://skift.com/2018/11/27/alaska-air ... -alliance/

=


Might not be a bad idea, even for AA by helping strengthen its West Coast customer base.


Since when is AS the only one of the 6 largest North American carriers not to be in an alliance? Which alliances are WN and B6 in, again? Or does he mean AC and AM? Doesn’t sound like a credibly written article.
 
ScottB
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Re: Alaska considering joining OW

Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:27 pm

LAXintl wrote:
Alaska is the only one of the six largest North American airlines not tied to one of the three major global alliances.


An obvious error in the article, but they're not the only one of the six largest in North America not in one of the alliances.

LAXintl wrote:
Might not be a bad idea, even for AA by helping strengthen its West Coast customer base.


It's not too clear to me that this would be positive for AA, though; it also means they'd compete with AS to offer domestic feed to JL, CX, QF, BA, LA, FJ, etc. And potentially CZ down the road.
 
tphuang
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Re: Alaska considering joining OW

Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:31 pm

I don’t see why aa would allow this.
 
winginit
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Re: Alaska considering joining OW

Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:34 pm

stl07 wrote:
I'm not so sure the authorities will be too keen on it since they already restricted the AA AS partnership


I don't think regulatory authorities of any kind need to approve entry into an alliance unless I've missed something?

tphuang wrote:
I don’t see why aa would allow this.


I can't see the benefit for either party given where the lines have been drawn with regard to overlapping codeshare and AA's own foray into the Pacific Northwest. What is it exactly that AS feels they can't do today that oneworld membership would allow them to do?
Last edited by winginit on Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Alaska considering joining OW

Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:37 pm

tphuang wrote:
I don’t see why aa would allow this.

Why?

AS already has a relationship to AA, as well as BA, CX, JL, QF, etc.... what would really change, so far as AA is concerned?
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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UPlog
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Re: Alaska considering joining OW

Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:37 pm

Star had UA+US at the same time so why not AA+AS simultaneously in OW.
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peanuts
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Re: Alaska considering joining OW

Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:40 pm

This is perfect. Not that there was any doubt but the lines are now fully drawn.
AS will shine domestically, compared to AA.
DL should encourage this move.
 
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stl07
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Re: Alaska considering joining OW

Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:42 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
tphuang wrote:
I don’t see why aa would allow this.

Why?

AS already has a relationship to AA, as well as BA, CX, JL, QF, etc.... what would really change, so far as AA is concerned?

An AA FF could get credit for flights on AS that compete with AA

Example
(am making the routes up)
If AA and AS both flew MCI-LAX, an AA FF could fly on AS if it was cheaper and get AA awards, something not allowed in the partnership today and also is prohibited after the AS-Virgin "merger".

I don't think its a big deal however and they'll probably find a way to restrict routes like these
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ahj2000
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Re: Alaska considering joining OW

Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:48 pm

tphuang wrote:
I don’t see why aa would allow this.

I mean if this convinces more flyers onto AA's longhaul network and their JV routes with JL/BA, why not? It also will give some more incentive for people to fly AA over DL or UA when flying domestically to a place AS doesn't go.
-Andrés Juánez
 
winginit
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Re: Alaska considering joining OW

Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:08 am

ahj2000 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
I don’t see why aa would allow this.

I mean if this convinces more flyers onto AA's longhaul network and their JV routes with JL/BA, why not?


It's more complicated than that though because that feed often doesn't come cheap.

Especially when you have a short-haul carrier feeding long-haul international flights, you have a special prorate agreement in place on the back-end where the short-haul carrier guarantees that they're getting fairly compensated and then some for feeding that international passenger pool.

So while AS for example might get an average fare of $100 between SFO and GEG (as an example, I know they don't fly that), if they agree to feed say JL's HND-SFO flight with feed to GEG (that AA couldn't otherwise cover), they'll command a premium and charge JL say $200 on the backend for carrying that passenger.

That's good for AS, but only questionably so for JL/AA, who have that proration erode their yields on the long-haul.

What we might see here if this all comes to fruition is a relationship similar to what DL and AS had before DL decided to aggressively hub SEA and feed their international flying with their own capacity. Can't quite understand why AA would agree to this AS tie-up given how things ended up between DL and AS.
 
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janders
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Re: Alaska considering joining OW

Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:10 am

I am sure AA-AS can work something out about overlapping routes, but can definitely see how AS joining OW could benefit AA by enlarging the pool of flyers on the West Coast and indeed push some of them onto AA flights and the AAdvantage family as well.
"We make war that we may live in peace." -- Aristotle
 
tphuang
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Re: Alaska considering joining OW

Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:17 am

ahj2000 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
I don’t see why aa would allow this.

I mean if this convinces more flyers onto AA's longhaul network and their JV routes with JL/BA, why not? It also will give some more incentive for people to fly AA over DL or UA when flying domestically to a place AS doesn't go.


Aa already made the conscious decision of cutting back on its relationship with as, why would it reverse the course now?
 
winginit
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Re: Alaska considering joining OW

Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:26 am

janders wrote:
I am sure AA-AS can work something out about overlapping routes


I'm curious what you think that might look like. Seems pretty clear cut that the government has forbid overlapping codeshare between AA and AS as a direct concession of the VX acquisition.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Alaska considering joining OW

Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:30 am

winginit wrote:
janders wrote:
I am sure AA-AS can work something out about overlapping routes


I'm curious what you think that might look like. Seems pretty clear cut that the government has forbid overlapping codeshare between AA and AS as a direct concession of the VX acquisition.


One does not have to codeshare to be in an alliance. Lots of alliance members don't code-share with each other, and if they do, its only select routes.

But regardless airlines can certainly still offer FF benefits just they do today with or without an alliance.
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MAH4546
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Re: Alaska considering joining OW

Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:37 am

winginit wrote:
janders wrote:
I am sure AA-AS can work something out about overlapping routes


I'm curious what you think that might look like. Seems pretty clear cut that the government has forbid overlapping codeshare between AA and AS as a direct concession of the VX acquisition.


Concessions that airlines make in anti-trust proceedings are not permanent. Airlines can simply reapproach DOT and DOJ. And they also expire permanently after a certain period. Usually 10 years, sometimes less. For example, all the promises and concessions that BA/AA made in 2008 to approve their alliance expired in March. They no longer have to adhere to any of them.
a.
 
winginit
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Re: Alaska considering joining OW

Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:42 am

LAXintl wrote:
winginit wrote:
janders wrote:
I am sure AA-AS can work something out about overlapping routes


I'm curious what you think that might look like. Seems pretty clear cut that the government has forbid overlapping codeshare between AA and AS as a direct concession of the VX acquisition.


One does not have to codeshare to be in an alliance. Lots of alliance members don't code-share with each other, and if they do, its only select routes.

But regardless airlines can certainly still offer FF benefits just they do today with or without an alliance.


Correct, but codeshare unlocks that seamless aspect of connecting travel between carriers that allows for both through pricing on domestic itineraries if I recall correctly in addition to online mileage accrual as opposed to partner accrual.

MAH4546 wrote:
winginit wrote:
janders wrote:
I am sure AA-AS can work something out about overlapping routes


I'm curious what you think that might look like. Seems pretty clear cut that the government has forbid overlapping codeshare between AA and AS as a direct concession of the VX acquisition.


Concessions that airlines make in anti-trust proceedings are not permanent. Airlines can simply reapproach DOT and DOJ. And they also expire permanently after a certain period. Usually 10 years, sometimes less. For example, all the promises and concessions that BA/AA made in 2008 to approve their alliance expired in March. They no longer have to adhere to any of them.


Naturally, but do we think that would be the pursuit here so soon after the concessions were implemented?

I guess to summarize I'm again asking myself what AS gets to do here by joining an alliance that they can't already do. It's not as if joining oneworld would be free. There are notable membership fees.
Last edited by winginit on Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
MAH4546
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Re: Alaska considering joining OW

Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:44 am

winginit wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
winginit wrote:

I'm curious what you think that might look like. Seems pretty clear cut that the government has forbid overlapping codeshare between AA and AS as a direct concession of the VX acquisition.


Concessions that airlines make in anti-trust proceedings are not permanent. Airlines can simply reapproach DOT and DOJ. And they also expire permanently after a certain period. Usually 10 years, sometimes less. For example, all the promises and concessions that BA/AA made in 2008 to approve their alliance expired in March. They no longer have to adhere to any of them.


Naturally, but do we think that would be the pursuit here so soon after the concessions were implemented?


They will make the argument that the lack of code share is hurting consumers. I know it certainly has been a detriment to me as an AS loyal flyer.
a.
 
winginit
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Re: Alaska considering joining OW

Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:48 am

MAH4546 wrote:
They will make the argument that the lack of code share is hurting consumers. I know it certainly has been a detriment to me as an AS loyal flyer.


So I guess the question again is... why does AS need to be a oneworld member for them to make that case and approach? Would that in any way change their fundamental case? Seems they'd be perfectly capable of doing that without AS having to join the alliance.

Additionally, while oneworld is lenient when it comes to dance partners outside of their dance floor, might this put Alaska's relationships with Korean or Singapore at risk?
Last edited by winginit on Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
AA747123
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Re: Alaska considering joining OW

Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:49 am

I think the APA will have a serious problem with this, unless there are VERY restrictive SCOPE clauses.
 
winginit
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Re: Alaska considering joining OW

Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:53 am

AA747123 wrote:
I think the APA will have a serious problem with this, unless there are VERY restrictive SCOPE clauses.


Ding ding ding!

How quick we are to forget how loudly the APA chirped back when both DL and AA were ramping up codeshare relationships with AS. I'd heard anecdotally at one point that at AA there were quarterly meetings between AA Network/Alliances and APA reps where it was hashed out exactly what codeshare expansion routes were on the table.
 
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Re: Alaska considering joining OW

Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:54 am

My first question is, if AS we're to join an alliance, where would the benefit the most?
SEA and SFO are (going from memory, dangerous) their two largest bases.
So DL invading SEA eliminates Skyteam.
UA dominating SFO makes Star look like a poor option.
They tried codesharing to avoid an alliance. That didn't work well enough.

AS needs to feed China, Japan, and an EU hub. OneWorld really is the only option.

Anyone piece together a better solution that avoids buying widebodies? It is easy to find fault, what could be better?

Lightsaber
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cschleic
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Re: Alaska considering joining OW

Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:20 am

As the quote from the OP says, this would be about international connections. Of the 14 international carriers with whom AS already has some type of agreement, 7 are in OneWorld....BA, Cathay, Finnair, JAL, Latam, Qantas and Fiji (who recently became the first Oneworld Connect member), and all fly to LAX, SFO and/or SEA in some form or another. It has been shifting this way for a while. So it would make sense. They can't do Skyteam, and Star with UA doesn't make sense. It's not about codeshares. It would be about FF programs, keeping customers in AS's program who might defect to others, lounge access, and seamless connections with certain international carriers (codeshare or not). Plus, not a full OneWorld membership either.
 
jfk777
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Re: Alaska considering joining OW

Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:44 am

Alaska reminds me of British Midland at LHR feeding almost every long haul airline it could. Eventually it was in the Star Alliance.
 
jbpdx
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Re: Alaska considering joining OW

Wed Nov 28, 2018 2:04 am

Actually, SFO has 90 AS daily departures, PDX has 130.

I’m an Alaska frequent flyer but I joined Delta’s FF program for international.
^
 
getluv
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Re: Alaska considering joining OW

Wed Nov 28, 2018 2:13 am

I think the news that AS is now going to start codesharing on their partner's flights is more interesting and would raise a lot more hairs at AA.
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Re: Alaska considering joining OW

Wed Nov 28, 2018 2:15 am

winginit wrote:
So while AS for example might get an average fare of $100 between SFO and GEG (as an example, I know they don't fly that), if they agree to feed say JL's HND-SFO flight with feed to GEG (that AA couldn't otherwise cover), they'll command a premium and charge JL say $200 on the backend for carrying that passenger.

In your example, JL may well offer $75.00 with increased volume making up the difference, proration usually only benefits the long haul carrier, usually the short haul partner tries for a flat fee on certain routes.
 
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Re: Alaska considering joining OW

Wed Nov 28, 2018 2:19 am

UPlog wrote:
Star had UA+US at the same time so why not AA+AS simultaneously in OW.


It was better than that. UA+US+CO were all members of Star at the same time back in Oct 2009 until the UA/CO merger.
 
michman
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Re: Alaska considering joining OW

Wed Nov 28, 2018 2:28 am

winginit wrote:
janders wrote:
I am sure AA-AS can work something out about overlapping routes


I'm curious what you think that might look like. Seems pretty clear cut that the government has forbid overlapping codeshare between AA and AS as a direct concession of the VX acquisition.


Code-sharing agreements have long been been subject to anti-trust review and restrictions and the forbidding of code-sharing on overlapping routes has been a common limitation. Clearly, the airlines have still found value in them even with the restrictions. Here's a DOJ press release from when DL entered their partnership with NW/CO. NW/CO already had restrictions in place from their partnership in 1998.

https://www.justice.gov/archive/atr/pub ... 200645.htm
 
sagechan
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Re: Alaska considering joining OW

Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:04 am

I doubt AA would have many issues. The seemed to get along and encourage codeshares with AS before the VX merger. AS in OW would bring back the AS loyalty pool to in the PNW to JV partners BA and JL and give a reasonable option for coverage in the PNW AA's weakest domestic area.
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tphuang
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Re: Alaska considering joining OW

Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:13 am

sagechan wrote:
I doubt AA would have many issues. The seemed to get along and encourage codeshares with AS before the VX merger. AS in OW would bring back the AS loyalty pool to in the PNW to JV partners BA and JL and give a reasonable option for coverage in the PNW AA's weakest domestic area.


Yet they made the unilateral decision to cut off most of the partnership benefits after the vx merger. They clearly see Alaska as a competitor.
 
airzona11
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Re: Alaska considering joining OW

Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:15 am

This is sort of an unintended consequence of the JVs. If AS is driving connect international traffic to airline AA has a JV with... AA doesn’t lose out. If they do some carve out where they offer less credit on flights on the other airline that both fly (PHX-SEA for example), this might not be a bad idea.

Not sure the consumer ultimately would be better off. But airlines have been gravitating towards pseudo monopolies for decades.
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: Alaska considering joining OW

Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:25 am

tphuang wrote:
sagechan wrote:
I doubt AA would have many issues. The seemed to get along and encourage codeshares with AS before the VX merger. AS in OW would bring back the AS loyalty pool to in the PNW to JV partners BA and JL and give a reasonable option for coverage in the PNW AA's weakest domestic area.


Yet they made the unilateral decision to cut off most of the partnership benefits after the vx merger. They clearly see Alaska as a competitor.


Other posters have indicated that the DOJ forced AA and AS to give up most of their partnership benefits. Which is correct?
 
wedgetail737
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Re: Alaska considering joining OW

Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:33 am

I hope not. That would mean a lot of the partnerships would go away!
 
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Re: Alaska considering joining OW

Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:54 am

BoeingGuy wrote:
tphuang wrote:
sagechan wrote:
I doubt AA would have many issues. The seemed to get along and encourage codeshares with AS before the VX merger. AS in OW would bring back the AS loyalty pool to in the PNW to JV partners BA and JL and give a reasonable option for coverage in the PNW AA's weakest domestic area.


Yet they made the unilateral decision to cut off most of the partnership benefits after the vx merger. They clearly see Alaska as a competitor.


Other posters have indicated that the DOJ forced AA and AS to give up most of their partnership benefits. Which is correct?


Yeah, I understood the DOJ was the impetus behind the relationships change between AA and AS.
 
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Re: Alaska considering joining OW

Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:58 am

wedgetail737 wrote:
I hope not. That would mean a lot of the partnerships would go away!


Why would the partnerships go away? AS had partnerships with several OW carriers (QF, JL, BA, LA...). Those airlines were permitted partnerships outside of OW, I would imagine AS would be allowed to continue a majority of their partnerships.
 
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NameOmitted
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Re: Alaska considering joining OW

Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:47 am

Unrelated to the content of the article, it's kind of neat to see the -400 Combi again.
 
michman
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Re: Alaska considering joining OW

Wed Nov 28, 2018 5:02 am

ASFlyer wrote:

Yeah, I understood the DOJ was the impetus behind the relationships change between AA and AS.


Partnership benefits (like mileage earning) would be completely outside the scope of what DOJ can control. And again, the code-sharing limitations are nothing new. There's almost certainly more to the story of the changes with AS/AA relationship. It's possible that whatever caused the original rift has now been settled and they are now willing to become closer partners.
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: Alaska considering joining OW

Wed Nov 28, 2018 5:10 am

I sorta felt like AA smelled blood in the water as DL invaded SEA and WN pushed back a bit in the West. With AS holding their own, maybe AA will warm back up a bit.
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77H
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Re: Alaska considering joining OW

Wed Nov 28, 2018 5:29 am

How might we expect DL and UA to respond to this considering the AS CCO points to this move as a means to pull international long haul business from them? Unfortunately the only airlines left in the US similar to AS in terms of comparable business model are B6 and HA to a lessor extent.

That said, B6 hubs in NYC which overlaps heavily with DL’s JFK and UA’s EWR Ops already and HA would likely go OW considering their JV with JL leaving seemingly limited opportunity for them to counter this plan.

77H
 
WkndWanderer
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Re: Alaska considering joining OW

Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:32 am

tphuang wrote:
sagechan wrote:
I doubt AA would have many issues. The seemed to get along and encourage codeshares with AS before the VX merger. AS in OW would bring back the AS loyalty pool to in the PNW to JV partners BA and JL and give a reasonable option for coverage in the PNW AA's weakest domestic area.


Yet they made the unilateral decision to cut off most of the partnership benefits after the vx merger. They clearly see Alaska as a competitor.


Half of AS's international partners are already in OW, and three of them are airlines AA has JV's with. I think AA was more concerned with reciprocal FF benefits with their own fliers crediting to MileagePlan to earn elite status since AS kept a more generous and traditional program that would be reciprocated on AA under the old partnership benefit instead of crediting to AAdvantage directly after AA switched to a spend-based FF program. I think the fact that those elements were ended while international flights, awards redemption, reciprocal lounge access, and the fact that codeshare flights were unaffected for earning and elite qualifying show that AA didn't regard AS as that much of a direct competitor...they used a scalpel, not an axe.
 
737max8
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Re: Alaska considering joining OW

Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:44 am

More reason to finally give up at DAL and move fully to DFW :stirthepot:
The thoughts and opinions expressed in my comments do not represent that of any airline or affiliate.
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peanuts
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Re: Alaska considering joining OW

Wed Nov 28, 2018 7:19 am

winginit wrote:
ahj2000 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
I don’t see why aa would allow this.

I mean if this convinces more flyers onto AA's longhaul network and their JV routes with JL/BA, why not?


It's more complicated than that though because that feed often doesn't come cheap.

Especially when you have a short-haul carrier feeding long-haul international flights, you have a special prorate agreement in place on the back-end where the short-haul carrier guarantees that they're getting fairly compensated and then some for feeding that international passenger pool.

So while AS for example might get an average fare of $100 between SFO and GEG (as an example, I know they don't fly that), if they agree to feed say JL's HND-SFO flight with feed to GEG (that AA couldn't otherwise cover), they'll command a premium and charge JL say $200 on the backend for carrying that passenger.

That's good for AS, but only questionably so for JL/AA, who have that proration erode their yields on the long-haul.

What we might see here if this all comes to fruition is a relationship similar to what DL and AS had before DL decided to aggressively hub SEA and feed their international flying with their own capacity. Can't quite understand why AA would agree to this AS tie-up given how things ended up between DL and AS.


In essence, AS is back at square one. They just have DL to contend with now at SEA..
It’s come full circle for them. Hilarious really.
 
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seabosdca
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Re: Alaska considering joining OW

Wed Nov 28, 2018 7:42 am

Back in the day, AS tied up with all of DL, NW, and AA as a way of counterbalancing UA, then the 800-pound gorilla of the west coast, including Seattle.

But UA began to de-emphasize Seattle. Then DL merged with NW, began dismantling NW's NRT hub, and decided it wanted to use SEA as an Asian gateway better situated than DTW for much of the country. So DL became the 800-pound gorilla in Seattle, and obviously couldn't be in a tie-up with AS anymore.

I thought at the time that AS would reprise its old strategy, just with UA/AA instead of DL/AA.

But instead AS decided to buy VX in order to keep B6 from developing a significant west coast presence. That put AS and UA into direct conflict at San Francisco. So AA was the only legacy left that wasn't directly opposite AS in key markets. And that is the key reason that closer OneWorld ties make more sense than they might have before.

I guess my question is whether AS wants to make some sort of play to grow in LAX, in keeping with the "Most West Coast" theme. That is the one thing they might realistically want to do that would create meaningful conflict with AA. I expect it would be hard, though, just because of lack of gate space.
 
Passedv1
Posts: 665
Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:40 am

Re: Alaska considering joining OW

Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:15 am

What is the difference between being a “OneWorld Member” and being a “OneWorld Connect” member?
 
Detroit313
Posts: 538
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:56 pm

Re: Alaska considering joining OW

Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:36 am

This is great news for American Airlines.
 
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N717TW
Posts: 558
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:24 pm

Re: Alaska considering joining OW

Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:01 pm

The DOJ/DOT restrictions that AS agreed to (mostly around LAX and DFW if I recall) would still apply and take precedence over any alliance rules. AS could easily apply to have the agreement changed arguing that conditions in the marketplace have changed (lets assume for this thread that it would be a true statement). However, simply by joining OneWorld does not mean AS could start code-sharing or giving FF benefits on routes that it agreed not to with the DOJ/DOT. But even if DOT/DOJ relented, then AA would have to agree. The real question to this whole thread is: Does AA consider it beneficial to have AS passengers feeding onto AA and AA/BA/IB or AA/JL flights? If the answer to that question is yes, then it can happen. Otherwise there is no way OneWorld is going to let AS into the alliance over AA's objection. (As folks here point out, UA-US and DL+CO+NW show that we used to have a world of multiple US airlines in alliances)
 
EBiafore99
Posts: 114
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:03 pm

Re: Alaska considering joining OW

Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:29 pm

seabosdca wrote:
Back in the day, AS tied up with all of DL, NW, and AA as a way of counterbalancing UA, then the 800-pound gorilla of the west coast, including Seattle.

But UA began to de-emphasize Seattle. Then DL merged with NW, began dismantling NW's NRT hub, and decided it wanted to use SEA as an Asian gateway better situated than DTW for much of the country. So DL became the 800-pound gorilla in Seattle, and obviously couldn't be in a tie-up with AS anymore.

I thought at the time that AS would reprise its old strategy, just with UA/AA instead of DL/AA.

But instead AS decided to buy VX in order to keep B6 from developing a significant west coast presence. That put AS and UA into direct conflict at San Francisco. So AA was the only legacy left that wasn't directly opposite AS in key markets. And that is the key reason that closer OneWorld ties make more sense than they might have before.

I guess my question is whether AS wants to make some sort of play to grow in LAX, in keeping with the "Most West Coast" theme. That is the one thing they might realistically want to do that would create meaningful conflict with AA. I expect it would be hard, though, just because of lack of gate space.


+1
 
Aliqiout
Posts: 374
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:10 pm

Re: Alaska considering joining OW

Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:33 pm

N717TW wrote:
The DOJ/DOT restrictions that AS agreed to (mostly around LAX and DFW if I recall) would still apply and take precedence over any alliance rules. AS could easily apply to have the agreement changed arguing that conditions in the marketplace have changed (lets assume for this thread that it would be a true statement). However, simply by joining OneWorld does not mean AS could start code-sharing or giving FF benefits on routes that it agreed not to with the DOJ/DOT. But even if DOT/DOJ relented, then AA would have to agree. The real question to this whole thread is: Does AA consider it beneficial to have AS passengers feeding onto AA and AA/BA/IB or AA/JL flights? If the answer to that question is yes, then it can happen. Otherwise there is no way OneWorld is going to let AS into the alliance over AA's objection. (As folks here point out, UA-US and DL+CO+NW show that we used to have a world of multiple US airlines in alliances)

The government did not place any restrictions on FF earning, only code shares.

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