No longer bookable

Yes, and MCO will only operate from 18Dec-08JAN (Christmas, very good prebookings) and 01April-30April (Easter, actual good prebookings)

DEL is canx from 01Feb and PIT from 11Jan.

LAX will paused in Feb und March, in Januar reduce to 1x weekly.

+ some reductions to Europe (SXF & DUB from daily to 6x weekly, BRU from 22Feb to 04Mar with no flights, later with reductions)

airberlin2017 wrote:

Yes, and MCO will only operate from 18Dec-08JAN (Christmas, very good prebookings) and 01April-30April (Easter, actual good prebookings)

DEL is canx from 01Feb and PIT from 11Jan.

LAX will paused in Feb und March, in Januar reduce to 1x weekly.

+ some reductions to Europe (SXF & DUB from daily to 6x weekly, BRU from 22Feb to 04Mar with no flights, later with reductions)

Thanks for the update. Disappointing

So now its STL, CVG, CLE, PIT, JFK, DFW (unconfirmed), SFO cancelled along with what you mentioned

WOW!

Smh I’m not surprised with these cancellations. WW has potential but rushed to quick. Feel sorry for PIT if cancellation is true cause then they be down to BA and Condor for international flights

Disappointing perhaps, but hardly surprising.

They need to go back to being what made them a viable carrier. Trans-European routes and sun routes in and near Europe.

The Routes to BCN (3x weekly) and MXP (3x weekly) will paused from 08JAN to 30MAR.

January 11 2019 will be the last day for PIT it seems, anyone have insight on how the flight performed?

Do I dare mention the name "Braniff" at this point? Or would that jinx it? If I still knew how to do the ducking-from-a-flying-book emoji, I would. I'm kidding here, of course.

WW is in much better shape than Caulder's Flying Colors were, but too much expansion too quickly has proven lethal to more than one airline. I give the airline credit for being brave enough to try something unique and smart enough to know if it doesn't work. Good for them.

Rule #1 in business: if you don't turn a profit, you won't get another chance to try something else. WW is moving quickly from routes that aren't working so that they can find something that does. Maybe they will find their niche and become the next Virgin Atlantic or JetBlue.

thegreatRDU wrote:

January 11 2019 will be the last day for PIT it seems, anyone have insight on how the flight performed?

I've helped handle the inbound intl arrivals all this summer and most of fall so far this year. The flights usually did pretty well during the spring and summer (80-90% I would estimate). Loads during wintertime however typically were suspect (60-70%).

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:

Do I dare mention the name "Braniff" at this point? Or would that jinx it? If I still knew how to do the ducking-from-a-flying-book emoji, I would. I'm kidding here, of course.

WW is in much better shape than Caulder's Flying Colors were, but too much expansion too quickly has proven lethal to more than one airline. I give the airline credit for being brave enough to try something unique and smart enough to know if it doesn't work. Good for them.

Rule #1 in business: if you don't turn a profit, you won't get another chance to try something else. WW is moving quickly from routes that aren't working so that they can find something that does. Maybe they will find their niche and become the next Virgin Atlantic or JetBlue.

WW is almost the same thing as Braniff with the $99 fares

EDIT: or shall I say "was"

Someone will surely ask: WW stands for WOW Air

Is WW still making these decisions on their own, or is FI in any way involved now?

FSDan wrote:

Is WW still making these decisions on their own, or is FI in any way involved now?

FI is not involved in any way. Creditor however seem to be moving in...

stl07 wrote:

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:

Do I dare mention the name "Braniff" at this point? Or would that jinx it? If I still knew how to do the ducking-from-a-flying-book emoji, I would. I'm kidding here, of course.

WW is in much better shape than Caulder's Flying Colors were, but too much expansion too quickly has proven lethal to more than one airline. I give the airline credit for being brave enough to try something unique and smart enough to know if it doesn't work. Good for them.

Rule #1 in business: if you don't turn a profit, you won't get another chance to try something else. WW is moving quickly from routes that aren't working so that they can find something that does. Maybe they will find their niche and become the next Virgin Atlantic or JetBlue.

WW is almost the same thing as Braniff with the $99 fares

EDIT: or shall I say "was"

Best response I could ever have hoped for. You made my day!

With 2 of the 3 330s returned today, not looking good for DFWs “seasonal” hiatus returning.

Heck, not looking good for anything in 2019 returning.

thegreatRDU wrote:

January 11 2019 will be the last day for PIT it seems, anyone have insight on how the flight performed?

Well, given that airlines don't make a habit of cancelling profitable routes, I'd venture to guess not so good.

In the first 5 months of 2018, think in terms of about 75.7%.

Network wide, they were 79.7%.

Load on the next 2 PIT-Flights:

11/28 (today) KEF-PIT 135/178 = > 75,8%
11/28 (today) PIT-KEF 144/178 => 80,9%

11/30 KEF-PIT 68/178 => 38,2%
11/30 PIT-KEF 137/178 => 76,9%

The demand on this route is clearly too low for earn money...

Based on how things are shaking out I think there is a very strong possibility that basically no routes are making WOW money right now.

jimbo737 wrote:

thegreatRDU wrote:

January 11 2019 will be the last day for PIT it seems, anyone have insight on how the flight performed?

Well, given that airlines don't make a habit of cancelling profitable routes, I'd venture to guess not so good.
.

Wow isn't the typical airline

The Loads to DTW & STL are not better than PIT...

11/28 (today) KEF-DTW 143/208 => 68,7%
11/28 (today) DTW-KEF 140/208 => 67,3%

11/30 KEF-DTW 99/208 => 47,5%
11/30 DTW-KEF 151/208 => 72,5%
----
11/28 (today) KEF-STL 96/208 => 46,1%
11/29 STL-KEF 106/208 => 50,9%

11/30 KEF-STL 90/208 => 43,2%
12/01 STL-KEF 132/208 => 63,4%

WW still has one A333 active, on lease from ICBC, a former SQ plane. I'm surprised that ICBC hasn't repossessed the plane, as there would be a market for that frame as it has RR Trent engines on it. The other two frames could end up back with Air Europa.

EBJ68 wrote:

Someone will surely ask: WW stands for WOW Air

At first, reading the thread headline, I thought it stood for Willie Walsh and BA was ending service to India.

As for the future, I have to wonder if FI has any lessor or airline from which it could source passenger B763s with time left on them. The only major airline retiring them right now is El Al (American will soon, but not for another 3-4 years). They could also be taking a look at

Right now, WW's major assets are its landing slots, particularly at JFK, European airports, and TLV. I could see Icelandair seeking to monetize those slots by leasing them out, especially at airports where WW and FI both serve.

WW flew flights late at night when it had no trouble getting slots at JFK. They were not valuable slots - there are plenty of slots at those times at night. They cannot monetize them. Not sure about the other ones.

aemoreira1981 wrote:

As for the future, I have to wonder if FI has any lessor or airline from which it could source passenger B763s with time left on them. The only major airline retiring them right now is El Al (American will soon, but not for another 3-4 years). They could also be taking a look at

Right now, WW's major assets are its landing slots, particularly at JFK, European airports, and TLV. I could see Icelandair seeking to monetize those slots by leasing them out, especially at airports where WW and FI both serve.

jasoncrh wrote:

WW flew flights late at night when it had no trouble getting slots at JFK. They were not valuable slots - there are plenty of slots at those times at night. They cannot monetize them. Not sure about the other ones.

aemoreira1981 wrote:

As for the future, I have to wonder if FI has any lessor or airline from which it could source passenger B763s with time left on them. The only major airline retiring them right now is El Al (American will soon, but not for another 3-4 years). They could also be taking a look at

Right now, WW's major assets are its landing slots, particularly at JFK, European airports, and TLV. I could see Icelandair seeking to monetize those slots by leasing them out, especially at airports where WW and FI both serve.

I stand corrected on that. However, they do have slots at airports where they're hard to get like AMS (although likely useless since slots can't be traded), FRA, and CDG. Their EWR slot, in the early evening, may not be worth much, but could be worth something if FI decides to move its flight up.

aemoreira1981 wrote:

jasoncrh wrote:

WW flew flights late at night when it had no trouble getting slots at JFK. They were not valuable slots - there are plenty of slots at those times at night. They cannot monetize them. Not sure about the other ones.

aemoreira1981 wrote:

As for the future, I have to wonder if FI has any lessor or airline from which it could source passenger B763s with time left on them. The only major airline retiring them right now is El Al (American will soon, but not for another 3-4 years). They could also be taking a look at

Right now, WW's major assets are its landing slots, particularly at JFK, European airports, and TLV. I could see Icelandair seeking to monetize those slots by leasing them out, especially at airports where WW and FI both serve.

I stand corrected on that. However, they do have slots at airports where they're hard to get like AMS (although likely useless since slots can't be traded), FRA, and CDG. Their EWR slot, in the early evening, may not be worth much, but could be worth something if FI decides to move its flight up.

EWR is no longer formally slot controlled. There is nothing to trade or sell.

Bigant0408 wrote:

Feel sorry for PIT if cancellation is true cause then they be down to BA and Condor for international flights

Huh?

PIT lags behind similar medium-sized nonhub TATL gateways (AUS, MSY, BNA, etc) by millions of pax, yet still manages to maintain two scheduled intercon carriers.... and you think that's cause for sorrow??

EvanWSFO wrote:

They need to go back to being what made them a viable carrier. Trans-European routes and sun routes in and near Europe.

WOW did best when they had just started offering TATL connections via KEF and kept a tight focus on large markets within narrowbody range. They were bleeding money before when they were only doing the intra-European routes for the demand to and from Iceland.

27 November 2018 - WOW says farewell to 2x A333:

- A333 TF- WOW Reykjavik (KEF) - Tarbes (LDE) WW332 parked
- A333 TF-LUV Reykjavik (KEF) - Tarbes (LDE) WW330 parked

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:

Rule #1 in business: if you don't turn a profit, you won't get another chance to try something else. WW is moving quickly from routes that aren't working so that they can find something that does. Maybe they will find their niche and become the next Virgin Atlantic or JetBlue.

Well lets hope they follow JetBlue and not Virgin Atlantic - losing money in most years of their existence, resolutely refusing to join alliances despite cancelling routes because of lack of feed, and ending up as the de facto Delta Transatlantic Connection operator perhaps isn't the ideal model.

Andy33 wrote:

and ending up as the de facto Delta Transatlantic Connection operator perhaps isn't the ideal model.

"Isn't the ideal model" for what... stemming the bleeding?

Even now, DL venture alone isn't enough to prevent all losses in VS's model, but the latter has tried just about everything else, and lost while doing it. At least this gives them deep pockets to assist.

It has been rumoured for some time they are in financial trouble even with the purchase by FI.2 A321 and 2 A330 returned.Whats next.Not another one gone bust.

EBJ68 wrote:

Someone will surely ask: WW stands for WOW Air

Yes, but it's worth leaving half of the readers confused by writing WW because it saves one letter.

What a silly airline. They ruined the business by starting their over ambitious long haul routes. Some have not even commenced ops. Long haul is something any airline should tread carefully on. Another was what, Air Belgium?
Their plans were something like how some a.net members on here talk ie. no regard for economic implications when taking decisions. Just buy fancy big planes and open fancy new routes to America and Asia.

From a passengers point of view, you have the choice of flying in a ridiculously cramped A320 with a stop in the middle of the night that creates a 2 hour delay, whilst you queue up to go through security with 500 other people. No food, no entertainment. Or you could fly direct on a 787 with Norweigan for about the same price.

I wonder if they could have done better by offering free stopovers and tours. Iceland is a very interesting place to spend a day (or more), but not to spend 2 hours.

EBJ68 wrote:

Someone will surely ask: WW stands for WOW Air

Thanks, I did a quick google search but I found bmibaby. Weird

peterinlisbon wrote:

From a passengers point of view, you have the choice of flying in a ridiculously cramped A320 with a stop in the middle of the night that creates a 2 hour delay, whilst you queue up to go through security with 500 other people. No food, no entertainment. Or you could fly direct on a 787 with Norweigan for about the same price.

I wonder if they could have done better by offering free stopovers and tours. Iceland is a very interesting place to spend a day (or more), but not to spend 2 hours.

They did/do offer stopover deals.

Also, I don't think their A32Xs are "ridiculously cramped". Not any more so than economy on most legacies these days.

peterinlisbon wrote:

From a passengers point of view, you have the choice of flying in a ridiculously cramped A320 with a stop in the middle of the night that creates a 2 hour delay, whilst you queue up to go through security with 500 other people. No food, no entertainment. Or you could fly direct on a 787 with Norweigan for about the same price.

I wonder if they could have done better by offering free stopovers and tours. Iceland is a very interesting place to spend a day (or more), but not to spend 2 hours.

There's no airside security check for connecting passengers in KEF, only passport checks for Schengen -> non-Schengen and vice versa.

What a stupid airline! Why they announced KEF-DEL at the first place when they had to cancel the route even before launcing the flights?

LAX772LR wrote:

Bigant0408 wrote:

Feel sorry for PIT if cancellation is true cause then they be down to BA and Condor for international flights

Huh?

PIT lags behind similar medium-sized nonhub TATL gateways (AUS, MSY, BNA, etc) by millions of pax, yet still manages to maintain two scheduled intercon carriers.... and you think that's cause for sorrow??

With just Condor summer seasonal and with us not knowing how BA service will turn out when it starts yes I do feel sorry for PIT. Besides BNA I know the other cities you mentioned have both BA and Condor services but have a larger amount of PAX so it remains to be seen if it can work for PIT. Possible but who knows. Overall loosing any service is sucks

airberlin2017 wrote:

The Loads to DTW & STL are not better than PIT...

11/28 (today) KEF-DTW 143/208 => 68,7%
11/28 (today) DTW-KEF 140/208 => 67,3%

11/30 KEF-DTW 99/208 => 47,5%
11/30 DTW-KEF 151/208 => 72,5%
----
11/28 (today) KEF-STL 96/208 => 46,1%
11/29 STL-KEF 106/208 => 50,9%

11/30 KEF-STL 90/208 => 43,2%
12/01 STL-KEF 132/208 => 63,4%

Would be interesting to see their loads at the large markets they serve like BOS, EWR and ORD when there is a lot of competition then we can really see how well PIT, STL and DTW are doing. Also relevant would be the fact that PIT aircraft have 30 less seats. If you add those 30 seats in PIT then the load factor really drops or subtract those 30 seats at DTW and STL and how the load factor increases there.

It look s like we can see now where the tipping point at PIT is as far as TATL even with money paid more than one daily flight is only sustainable. Even when US had their huge hub there it only fielded 3 TATL flights a day there with all that feed.

klm617 wrote:

It look s like we can see now where the tipping point at PIT is as far as TATL even with money paid more than one daily flight is only sustainable. Even when US had their huge hub there it only fielded 3 TATL flights a day there with all that feed.

This isn’t about PIT, it’s about WOW being at death’s door.

SRQKEF wrote:

klm617 wrote:

It look s like we can see now where the tipping point at PIT is as far as TATL even with money paid more than one daily flight is only sustainable. Even when US had their huge hub there it only fielded 3 TATL flights a day there with all that feed.

This isn’t about PIT, it’s about WOW being at death’s door.

Well this forum certainly made it about CLE, STL and CVG when WOW bailed in those places even though the airline was in the same financial distress. You were a reasoned voice in those discussions but it didn't stop the usual nonsense on here. Just sayin'.

The part about delhi is not true. You are still able to book flights to delhi from December-June.

SRQKEF wrote:

peterinlisbon wrote:

From a passengers point of view, you have the choice of flying in a ridiculously cramped A320 with a stop in the middle of the night that creates a 2 hour delay, whilst you queue up to go through security with 500 other people. No food, no entertainment. Or you could fly direct on a 787 with Norweigan for about the same price.

I wonder if they could have done better by offering free stopovers and tours. Iceland is a very interesting place to spend a day (or more), but not to spend 2 hours.

There's no airside security check for connecting passengers in KEF, only passport checks for Schengen -> non-Schengen and vice versa.

I remember being woken up in the middle of the night and herded through some long line inside the terminal along with hundreds of other people on my way from US to the UK (so Schengen doesn't enter into it), but this was back when it was called Iceland Express. My lasting memory of that flight was arriving exhausted, thinking I would take a quick nap and then sleeping from 2pm until 9pm. I didn't get any sleep on either flight.

Runway28L wrote:

thegreatRDU wrote:

January 11 2019 will be the last day for PIT it seems, anyone have insight on how the flight performed?

I've helped handle the inbound intl arrivals all this summer and most of fall so far this year. The flights usually did pretty well during the spring and summer (80-90% I would estimate). Loads during wintertime however typically were suspect (60-70%).

2018
January PIT-KEF-62.9%, KEF-PIT-71.6%
February PIT-KEF-70.1%, KEF-PIT-67.3%
March PIT-KEF-82.6%, KEF-PIT-82.8%
April PIT-KEF-78.3%, KEF-PIT-76.4%
May PIT-KEF-87.8%, KEF-PIT-74.9%

It appears WW has applied to run Miami-Cuba fifth freedom flights

https://mobile.twitter.com/ethanklapper ... 6095145985

Now that's an oddball strategy. I'm guessing just a trick to up utilization.

peterinlisbon wrote:

SRQKEF wrote:

peterinlisbon wrote:

From a passengers point of view, you have the choice of flying in a ridiculously cramped A320 with a stop in the middle of the night that creates a 2 hour delay, whilst you queue up to go through security with 500 other people. No food, no entertainment. Or you could fly direct on a 787 with Norweigan for about the same price.

I wonder if they could have done better by offering free stopovers and tours. Iceland is a very interesting place to spend a day (or more), but not to spend 2 hours.

There's no airside security check for connecting passengers in KEF, only passport checks for Schengen -> non-Schengen and vice versa.

I remember being woken up in the middle of the night and herded through some long line inside the terminal along with hundreds of other people on my way from US to the UK (so Schengen doesn't enter into it), but this was back when it was called Iceland Express. My lasting memory of that flight was arriving exhausted, thinking I would take a quick nap and then sleeping from 2pm until 9pm. I didn't get any sleep on either flight.

If you equate WOW with Iceland Express, then I can certainly understand your reasoning. However, while WOW did rise from the ashes of Iceland Express, it’s a completely seperate entity and their product itself is much more professional while Iceland Express is a synonym for a shitty company here in Iceland. WOW really had potential if it had grown at a reasonable pace, their on-board service is reasonable and the staff very friendly both on the ground and in the air. Their problem is the people at the top.