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SRQKEF
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Re: Rumor: WW ending India and PIT on the heels of numerous other cancelation

Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:19 pm

LupineChemist wrote:
It appears WW has applied to run Miami-Cuba fifth freedom flights

https://mobile.twitter.com/ethanklapper ... 6095145985

Now that's an oddball strategy. I'm guessing just a trick to up utilization.


WOW hasn’t operated to MIA since early last year, so that’s weird...
Nothing compares to taking off in an empty 757 with full thrust!
 
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hvusslax
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Re: Rumor: WW ending India and PIT on the heels of numerous other cancelations

Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:34 pm

peterinlisbon wrote:
SRQKEF wrote:
peterinlisbon wrote:
From a passengers point of view, you have the choice of flying in a ridiculously cramped A320 with a stop in the middle of the night that creates a 2 hour delay, whilst you queue up to go through security with 500 other people. No food, no entertainment. Or you could fly direct on a 787 with Norweigan for about the same price.

I wonder if they could have done better by offering free stopovers and tours. Iceland is a very interesting place to spend a day (or more), but not to spend 2 hours.


There's no airside security check for connecting passengers in KEF, only passport checks for Schengen -> non-Schengen and vice versa.


I remember being woken up in the middle of the night and herded through some long line inside the terminal along with hundreds of other people on my way from US to the UK (so Schengen doesn't enter into it), but this was back when it was called Iceland Express. My lasting memory of that flight was arriving exhausted, thinking I would take a quick nap and then sleeping from 2pm until 9pm. I didn't get any sleep on either flight.


For a short while it was the rule that everyone connecting from North America had to be herded through security screening at KEF before their connecting flights onwards to Europe. This was because of some disagreement between EU security protocols and those of the USA/Canada. It's been at least 4-5 years since this was resolved. There is however the passport control for those connecting onwards in the Schengen area but this is a feature rather than a bug in most cases. Better to get that out of the way in Iceland than having to do it in the final EU destination, especially if that destination is a big crowded hub like CDG or FRA.
 
MartijnNL
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Re: Rumor: WW ending India and PIT on the heels of numerous other cancelations

Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:44 pm

FatCat wrote:
EBJ68 wrote:
Someone will surely ask: WW stands for WOW Air

Thanks, I did a quick google search but I found bmibaby. Weird

WW used to be bmibaby, before WOW Air got that code.
 
MartijnNL
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Re: Rumor: WW ending India and PIT on the heels of numerous other cancelations

Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:48 pm

factsonly wrote:
27 November 2018 - WOW says farewell to 2x A333:

- A333 TF- WOW Reykjavik (KEF) - Tarbes (LDE) WW332 parked
- A333 TF-LUV Reykjavik (KEF) - Tarbes (LDE) WW330 parked

Hmm... booked a return flight Amsterdam - Reykjavik two days ago for April. Both flights are (were) scheduled on the A330. That's probably not going to happen.
 
EvanWSFO
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Re: Rumor: WW ending India and PIT on the heels of numerous other cancelations

Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:09 pm

hvusslax wrote:
EvanWSFO wrote:
They need to go back to being what made them a viable carrier. Trans-European routes and sun routes in and near Europe.


WOW did best when they had just started offering TATL connections via KEF and kept a tight focus on large markets within narrowbody range. They were bleeding money before when they were only doing the intra-European routes for the demand to and from Iceland.


My bad. I misread the title and thought this was about Norwegian.
 
AaronPGH
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Re: Rumor: WW ending India and PIT on the heels of numerous other cancelations

Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:16 pm

PIT is arguably better off without WW. BA + DE serve the #1 and #2 top TATL O&D markets from PIT, not to mention are great connecting options. If those are the two remaining routes, PIT got what they wanted in the end. It'll be good for them to mature on their own for a while.
 
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Slash787
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Re: Rumor: WW ending India and PIT on the heels of numerous other cancelations

Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:26 pm

EBJ68 wrote:
Someone will surely ask: WW stands for WOW Air


Well I am bad at decoding stuff so the first thing came in my mind was Volkswagen even though that is VW.

Back on topic, I thought Jet Airways was in a bad position, but with WOW it seems worse, I did have a feeling that they would cancel this route or this route would not work. The Majority of the people on this route would be the Indians living in USA coming back to India to visit their families etc etc and with all the luggage fees added, the ticket price was coming close to as any Full Service carrier.
 
lavalampluva
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Re: Rumor: WW ending India and PIT on the heels of numerous other cancelations

Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:49 pm

WWs North American expansion was too ambitious. An airline with a healthy business plan shouldn't be cutting routes so quickly after adding them.
Remind me to send a thank you note to Mr. Boeing.
 
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enilria
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Re: Rumor: WW ending India and PIT on the heels of numerous other cancelations

Wed Nov 28, 2018 5:41 pm

Bigant0408 wrote:
Smh I’m not surprised with these cancellations. WW has potential but rushed to quick. Feel sorry for PIT if cancellation is true cause then they be down to BA and Condor for international flights

Frankly, if PIT doesn't come back it's their own fault for piling too much Europe service on.
 
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enilria
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Re: Rumor: WW ending India and PIT on the heels of numerous other cancelations

Wed Nov 28, 2018 5:44 pm

AaronPGH wrote:
PIT is arguably better off without WW. BA + DE serve the #1 and #2 top TATL O&D markets from PIT, not to mention are great connecting options. If those are the two remaining routes, PIT got what they wanted in the end. It'll be good for them to mature on their own for a while.

Very arguably. Low fares are quite valuable to an airport. Now FI at CLE will be sucking lower fare traffic from PIT.
 
UWPAviation
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Re: Rumor: WW ending India and PIT on the heels of numerous other cancelations

Wed Nov 28, 2018 5:59 pm

Not surprising, they expanded too fast. They went into to many questionable markets. Im surprised they didnt just stick with ORD, BOS, LAX, JFK and make a name for themselves on what they did. Low-cost EU TO US fairs.

Going into STL, PIT, CLE. CVG, DTW were always head scratches to me. If anything expand into LAS and really promote it in EU how cheap a fair that is. To me it seems like Norwegian has beat them to the punch, plus they atleast have direct to London and Paris which is a 10x bigger incentive then connecting.
 
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enilria
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Re: Rumor: WW ending India and PIT on the heels of numerous other cancelations

Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:04 pm

UWPAviation wrote:
Not surprising, they expanded too fast. They went into to many questionable markets. Im surprised they didnt just stick with ORD, BOS, LAX, JFK and make a name for themselves on what they did. Low-cost EU TO US fairs.

Going into STL, PIT, CLE. CVG, DTW were always head scratches to me. If anything expand into LAS and really promote it in EU how cheap a fair that is. To me it seems like Norwegian has beat them to the punch, plus they atleast have direct to London and Paris which is a 10x bigger incentive then connecting.

Norwegian appears to be bailing out of FLL and OAK which were thought to be stalwarts.
 
AaronPGH
Posts: 370
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:13 pm

Re: Rumor: WW ending India and PIT on the heels of numerous other cancelations

Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:08 pm

enilria wrote:
Very arguably. Low fares are quite valuable to an airport. Now FI at CLE will be sucking lower fare traffic from PIT.


Not when Condor is still flying from PIT.
 
UWPAviation
Posts: 61
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Re: Rumor: WW ending India and PIT on the heels of numerous other cancelations

Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:11 pm

enilria wrote:
UWPAviation wrote:
Not surprising, they expanded too fast. They went into to many questionable markets. Im surprised they didnt just stick with ORD, BOS, LAX, JFK and make a name for themselves on what they did. Low-cost EU TO US fairs.

Going into STL, PIT, CLE. CVG, DTW were always head scratches to me. If anything expand into LAS and really promote it in EU how cheap a fair that is. To me it seems like Norwegian has beat them to the punch, plus they atleast have direct to London and Paris which is a 10x bigger incentive then connecting.

Norwegian appears to be bailing out of FLL and OAK which were thought to be stalwarts.


I also have not seen any marketing or promotion for WW. I live in the Milwaukee - Chicagoland area. Ive seen plenty of Norwegian billboards and online adds showing there low fairs and non stop to London. Nothing for WW. I think there marketing and promotion has really really hurt them.
 
klm617
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Re: Rumor: WW ending India and PIT on the heels of numerous other cancelations

Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:30 pm

UWPAviation wrote:
Not surprising, they expanded too fast. They went into to many questionable markets. Im surprised they didnt just stick with ORD, BOS, LAX, JFK and make a name for themselves on what they did. Low-cost EU TO US fairs.

Going into STL, PIT, CLE. CVG, DTW were always head scratches to me. If anything expand into LAS and really promote it in EU how cheap a fair that is. To me it seems like Norwegian has beat them to the punch, plus they atleast have direct to London and Paris which is a 10x bigger incentive then connecting.


Why should only the big already over saturated markets be the only ones to get more low cost seat dumped into those markets. Why would LAS work for them when that market is already loaded with low fare airlines that offer nonstop flights to central Europe at the same price. They couldn't even stay is SFO and MIA because they couldn't make a go there. Those were brilliant tries by WW had there not been a cash crush I suspect at least half of the discontinued markets would still have WW flights. FI went into CLE and MCI and those aren't being dropped is that a head scratcher too in your estimation. I think more of a head scratcher is why more and more cheap seats are being dumped into markets that are already over saturated.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
F9Animal
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Re: Rumor: WW ending India and PIT on the heels of numerous other cancelations

Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:32 pm

Is it possible that the Iceland Air deal may have fallen apart? I read it was not official, and that the deal could be on the rocks? Maybe Wow Air CEO is now realizing it needs to trim some fat?
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
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enilria
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Re: Rumor: WW ending India and PIT on the heels of numerous other cancelations

Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:48 pm

AaronPGH wrote:
enilria wrote:
Very arguably. Low fares are quite valuable to an airport. Now FI at CLE will be sucking lower fare traffic from PIT.


Not when Condor is still flying from PIT.

Perhaps, but the network is very different.

F9Animal wrote:
Is it possible that the Iceland Air deal may have fallen apart? I read it was not official, and that the deal could be on the rocks? Maybe Wow Air CEO is now realizing it needs to trim some fat?

Maybe, but more likely FI sees the losses and WW wants to "perfume the pig".
 
caaardiff
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Re: Rumor: WW ending India and PIT on the heels of numerous other cancelations

Wed Nov 28, 2018 7:45 pm

DEL is bookable until Oct 2019
PIT isn't bookable past Mar 2019
 
Jshank83
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Re: Rumor: WW ending India and PIT on the heels of numerous other cancelations

Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:25 pm

caaardiff wrote:
DEL is bookable until Oct 2019
PIT isn't bookable past Mar 2019


If you actually click on the dates PIT isn't bookable past JAN 11.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Rumor: WW ending India and PIT on the heels of numerous other cancelations

Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:28 pm

F9Animal wrote:
Is it possible that the Iceland Air deal may have fallen apart? I read it was not official, and that the deal could be on the rocks? Maybe Wow Air CEO is now realizing it needs to trim some fat?


They just returned two A330ceos to Avolon. I expect that Avolon has also canceled the lease on the A330neo aircraft. They also returned their two A320ceos. They should have been more conservative and also built up feed at both ends.
 
airberlin2017
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Re: Rumor: WW ending India and PIT on the heels of numerous other cancelation

Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:52 pm

SRQKEF wrote:
LupineChemist wrote:
It appears WW has applied to run Miami-Cuba fifth freedom flights

https://mobile.twitter.com/ethanklapper ... 6095145985

Now that's an oddball strategy. I'm guessing just a trick to up utilization.


WOW hasn’t operated to MIA since early last year, so that’s weird...


ACMI-Charter for the us-american tour operator Gulfstream Air Charter in this period (4/12 - 31/01) ;)

TF-MOM are operated for Aruba Airlines since 2 weeks with position flights KEF-YQX-AUA: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/tf-mom
 
Lapplander800
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Re: Rumor: WW ending India and PIT on the heels of numerous other cancelations

Wed Nov 28, 2018 10:50 pm

SRQKEF wrote:
WOW really had potential if it had grown at a reasonable pace, their on-board service is reasonable and the staff very friendly both on the ground and in the air. Their problem is the people at the top.


Spot on! It's very sad to see it unfold, yet so predictable.
 
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stl07
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Re: Rumor: WW ending India and PIT on the heels of numerous other cancelations

Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:03 pm

xbgb2003 wrote:
The part about delhi is not true. You are still able to book flights to delhi from December-June.

Huh?
 
SurfandSnow
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Re: Rumor: WW ending India and PIT on the heels of numerous other cancelations

Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:22 am

Lapplander800 wrote:
SRQKEF wrote:
WOW really had potential if it had grown at a reasonable pace, their on-board service is reasonable and the staff very friendly both on the ground and in the air. Their problem is the people at the top.


Spot on! It's very sad to see it unfold, yet so predictable.


I couldn't agree more. With Norwegian being a bit more of a cheap chic B6/VX-style operation, WOW truly offered a no frills, Spirit Airlines-esque transatlantic experience. It was excellent value for the money - too good to be true!
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
 
juliuswong
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Re: Rumor: WW ending India and PIT on the heels of numerous other cancelations

Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:42 am

factsonly wrote:
27 November 2018 - WOW says farewell to 2x A333:

- A333 TF- WOW Reykjavik (KEF) - Tarbes (LDE) WW332 parked
- A333 TF-LUV Reykjavik (KEF) - Tarbes (LDE) WW330 parked


Not only those two, they also sent back two A320-232ceo, leaving only one A320 in fleet. TF-NEO A320-251Neo
Airbus A320-232 MSN 4270 TF-SIS Wow Air ferried 28nov18 MXP-SNN on return to lessor (+ 4305 TF-BRO 27nov18 KEF-SNN) ex LZ-MDC
Source: https://www.skyliner-aviation.de/regdb.main?LC=nav4
- Life is a journey, travel it well -
 
superjeff
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Re: Rumor: WW ending India and PIT on the heels of numerous other cancelations

Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:47 am

stl07 wrote:
PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
Do I dare mention the name "Braniff" at this point? Or would that jinx it? If I still knew how to do the ducking-from-a-flying-book emoji, I would. I'm kidding here, of course.

WW is in much better shape than Caulder's Flying Colors were, but too much expansion too quickly has proven lethal to more than one airline. I give the airline credit for being brave enough to try something unique and smart enough to know if it doesn't work. Good for them.

Rule #1 in business: if you don't turn a profit, you won't get another chance to try something else. WW is moving quickly from routes that aren't working so that they can find something that does. Maybe they will find their niche and become the next Virgin Atlantic or JetBlue.

WW is almost the same thing as Braniff with the $99 fares

EDIT: or shall I say "was"


Wow is no Braniff. And Braniff had a very high quality of inflight service. They went belly up for other reasons. Don't insult the thousands of Braniff alumni.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Rumor: WW ending India and PIT on the heels of numerous other cancelations

Thu Nov 29, 2018 3:49 am

jules48 wrote:
It has been rumoured for some time they are in financial trouble even with the purchase by FI.2 A321 and 2 A330 returned.Whats next.Not another one gone bust.


Actually 2 A320ceo (their last two - TF-BRO and TF-SIS) and the two A333s (they still have TF-GAY on lease from ICBC in service). The question might now be around which leases FI might want...the lessors are:

Air Lease Corporation (1 A20N, 4 A321, 2 A21N)
Sky Holding Company (2 A321)
Bank of Communication - Shanghai (2 A321s)
Government of Russia - Vnesheconombank (3 A321s - originally part of an order for Russia's airlines)
Industrial and Commercial Bank of China (the remaining A333)

2 of the 3 A321s owned by the Russian government are not wingleted; all others are.

I would expect that FI would reject the A20N and A333 leases at the very least, but integrate the A321/A21Ns into the fleet after reconfiguration to FI standards, and use them where the range of other aircraft isn't needed, alongside the 737 MAX 9. As for the 757s, I could see some heading to Cabo Verde alongside 2 A321s...an operation that could use 3 B752s and 2 A321s to start. I'd be surprised if FI keeps the WOW air brand.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Rumor: WW ending India and PIT on the heels of numerous other cancelations

Thu Nov 29, 2018 5:13 am

Bigant0408 wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
PIT lags behind similar medium-sized nonhub TATL gateways (AUS, MSY, BNA, etc) by millions of pax, yet still manages to maintain two scheduled intercon carriers.... and you think that's cause for sorrow??

the other cities you mentioned have both BA and Condor services but have a larger amount of PAX so it remains to be seen if it can work for PIT. Possible but who knows.

So in the span of one post, you go from complaining about having only two TATL carriers, to being dubious as to whether the market can even support just two?

Consistency much?
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
Bigant0408
Posts: 137
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:26 am

Re: Rumor: WW ending India and PIT on the heels of numerous other cancelations

Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:56 am

LAX772LR wrote:
Bigant0408 wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
PIT lags behind similar medium-sized nonhub TATL gateways (AUS, MSY, BNA, etc) by millions of pax, yet still manages to maintain two scheduled intercon carriers.... and you think that's cause for sorrow??

the other cities you mentioned have both BA and Condor services but have a larger amount of PAX so it remains to be seen if it can work for PIT. Possible but who knows.

So in the span of one post, you go from complaining about having only two TATL carriers, to being dubious as to whether the market can even support just two?

Consistency much?


Lmao I wasn’t complaining at all just was stating my opinion on what I felt. Also, I’m just saying with WW leaving with cheap airfare and BA coming in with on avg expensive airfare we’d have to see how it pans out if PIT can support the year round BA service or not. Condor has proven they can be supported granted seasonal.
The man who sleeps on the floor doesn’t fall out of bed

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