planecane
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Re: Air India 787 collided with building at ARN

Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:18 pm

SpeckSpot wrote:
For how often this happens in the industry, I think airliners should have proximity sensors installed on all the tips (nose, elevators, vertical stabilizer, wingtips, jet cowling and nosegear). Considering the birds cost hundreds of millions of dollars and on the other hand, there are proximity sensors in DIY electronics kits that cost $20. So I know an aviation-grade sensor will be much more expensive, but all around, I think they won't add more than $1000 to the cost of an airliner. So why not?

BTW, since video cameras are small enough to fit on phones now, I think there should also be a video feed from all the tips (mentioned above) to the cockpit. For crying out loud, even cars have backup cameras now. I would even make sure that every control surface is visible from a video camera that feeds the cockpit. This would prevent the recent incident where the pilot would bank left and the plane would bank right because the controls had been reversed, because when moving your control surfaces prior to takeoff, you can actually LOOK at them while actuating them, one by one.

Or maybe some or all of this has been done already and I don't know because I'm not a pilot???


For the proximity sensor part, there would still be cases where a turn has the obstacle appear too suddenly to stop anyway. A cheaper and lighter solution would be to follow the yellow lines painted on the ground.

The camera to see critical surfaces is a good idea and easily implementable on new designs. A retrofit needs power and data wiring as well as a way to get it on the cockpit screens. That's probably the difficult part as the displays on older designs weren't designed to have a video feed input from cameras.

Even a "new" design like the 787 started to be designed 15+ years ago. Cameras had just begun to appear in cell phones a couple of years earlier and not nearly at a useful resolution to evaluate ice on a wing or something like that.

Also, depending on the sun angle it will render some views useless at times unless you have a retractable tinted lens.
 
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ojjunior
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Re: Air India 787 collided with building at ARN

Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:31 pm

Amateurs.

The British always do better:
Image
Image
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Begues
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Re: Air India 787 collided with building at ARN

Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:39 pm

A bit unlucky, this building and the other ones around it are slated for demolition fairly soonish. Come next summer and they should be gone.
 
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notaxonrotax
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Re: Air India 787 collided with building at ARN

Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:39 pm

anshabhi wrote:
The title of this thread should be changed. It's not like they nose-dived into the wall. Barely 1m near the left wing tip is affected.


"Barely 1 meter"......may I please know from how many meters onwards are we allowed to call it a collision after a plane collides (sorry, "hits") a building?


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Gr8Circle
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Re: Air India 787 collided with building at ARN

Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:51 pm

SDFguy wrote:
What an absolute disaster of an airline!


So, when airlines like BA, AF and several others have such incidents colliding with building and other planes, that's okay.....but when it involves AI, the whole airline is a disaster!! It really doesn't take too long for you AI bashers to crawl out of your caves!!
 
Armodeen
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Re: Air India 787 collided with building at ARN

Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:53 pm

BA trashes a 744 by hitting a building in JNB and everyone is talking about the poor signage etc.

AI does it at ARN and it’s because AI is a terrible airline.

Cmon guys give them a break. I am no AI fan but this sort of thing happens (monthly at IST, it seems).
 
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Revelation
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Re: Air India 787 collided with building at ARN

Thu Nov 29, 2018 1:29 pm

unrave wrote:

Seems to be not just a wing tip.
Seems to be right where the raked winglet joins the main wing spar:

Image
Tarun Shukla @shukla_tarun


Image
Tarun Shukla @shukla_tarun



For reference:

Image
How does the raked wingtip of the Boeing 787 work?


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hohd
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Re: Air India 787 collided with building at ARN

Thu Nov 29, 2018 2:25 pm

An absolute disaster is if there are multiple crashes with loss of life. I would say AF is an absolute disaster, they lost over 300 on the flight from Rio to Paris. Southwest has had numerous accidents too, are they an absolute disaster ? Here the incident resulted in probably minor repairs to the aircraft. I cannot believe that the building is so flimsy that the aluminum wing tip of the aircraft causes much damage to the building.
 
kabq737
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Re: Air India 787 collided with building at ARN

Thu Nov 29, 2018 2:53 pm

Revelation wrote:
SDFguy wrote:
What an absolute disaster of an airline!

Yeah, but think of all the spare parts they just created.

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ak
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Re: Air India 787 collided with building at ARN

Thu Nov 29, 2018 3:31 pm

AI = Accident Investigation(s)
" I am serious...and don't call me Shirley!
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Air India 787 collided with building at ARN

Thu Nov 29, 2018 3:36 pm

I think in colliding with buildings BA takes the cake.

Air Lingus collided with a parking structure at SFO in May.
https://twitter.com/Ivan_DrawGo/status/ ... 84/photo/1

In other news, yesterday a private jet clipped Trump's parked 757 at LGA.
https://www.apnews.com/263e4b30fadc4966b3d7c41a6e4d8f18
 
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notaxonrotax
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Re: Air India 787 collided with building at ARN

Thu Nov 29, 2018 4:24 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:

In other news, yesterday a private jet clipped Trump's parked 757 at LGA.
https://www.apnews.com/263e4b30fadc4966b3d7c41a6e4d8f18


Must have been a bastard democrat pilot.......lock ´m up.

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Gr8Circle
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Re: Air India 787 collided with building at ARN

Thu Nov 29, 2018 5:35 pm

MileHFL400 wrote:
Well done Air India. It’s a wonder how these jokers are still in business.


Does your logic extend to BA (hit a building in SA) and AF (hit another plane at JFK)? If not, please explain why.....
 
Gr8Circle
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Re: Air India 787 collided with building at ARN

Thu Nov 29, 2018 5:36 pm

notaxonrotax wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:

In other news, yesterday a private jet clipped Trump's parked 757 at LGA.
https://www.apnews.com/263e4b30fadc4966b3d7c41a6e4d8f18


Must have been a bastard democrat pilot.......lock ´m up.

No Tax On Rotax


Oh, these small fact don't bother the compulsive AI bashers on a.net...… :)
 
Waterbomber
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Re: Air India 787 collided with building at ARN

Thu Nov 29, 2018 5:45 pm

Yeah this is not just raked wingtip, but also a part of the actual wing where the wingtip is attached, so structural. So it won't buff right out. This is going to be a pain in the ### to repair.
 
MileHFL400
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Re: Air India 787 collided with building at ARN

Thu Nov 29, 2018 6:00 pm

Gr8Circle wrote:
MileHFL400 wrote:
Well done Air India. It’s a wonder how these jokers are still in business.


Does your logic extend to BA (hit a building in SA) and AF (hit another plane at JFK)? If not, please explain why.....


First off. Air India has a history of being a joke. And seeing as many other posters have said similar things about them why don’t you question them too?

Secondly, I will never fly Air France, and will actively avoid British Airways after what they did to my suitcase last time I flew them.

Good day Sir
Thanks and best Regards
AA
 
jfjk
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Re: Air India 787 collided with building at ARN

Wed Dec 05, 2018 2:27 pm

Still at Ramp E at ARN it seems. Wonder how long it will be out of service?...
 
TheHunt3r
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Re: Air India 787 collided with building at ARN

Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:10 pm

MileHFL400 wrote:
And seeing as many other posters have said similar things about them why don’t you question them too?

This sheeplike statement is a bad joke.
Making conclusions about safety from posts on Anet is just stupid. Planes colliding with objects while taxiing isn't that uncommon, it just happens. However any financially unstable airline is more likely to have an accident, as employees can be under more pressure. I'd generally avoid flying with an airline close to bankruptcy not just for safety reasons.
 
kiowa
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Re: Air India 787 collided with building at ARN

Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:29 pm

The99Percent wrote:
SDFguy wrote:
What an absolute disaster of an airline!

May be hold off on blaming the airline until we have the cause at the very least?


That building should not have been there or at least not moving so fast.
 
ozark1
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Re: Air India 787 collided with building at ARN

Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:32 pm

The99Percent wrote:
SDFguy wrote:
What an absolute disaster of an airline!

May be hold off on blaming the airline until we have the cause at the very least?

But this is AIRLINERS. Always guilty until proven innocent!
 
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Slash787
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Re: Air India 787 collided with building at ARN

Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:13 pm

So as this aircraft is out of service at the moment, they are using another B787 for this route, so which route did they cut down or lowered the frequencies in order to operate this route?
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Air India 787 collided with building at ARN

Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:58 pm

jfjk wrote:
Still at Ramp E at ARN it seems. Wonder how long it will be out of service?...


Don't forget this is a state-owned airline.

0) They have to type up RFP, wait for minimum 3 bids from vendors who have an office, tax id, bank account in India.
1) After two weeks, sealed bids will be opened, and sent for review from AI CMD(CEO), DGCA, Ministry of Civil Aviation, Ministry of Finance, Ministry of External Affairs, Prime Ministers Office.
2) Once the review is complete a cabinet note will be prepared, and wait for next cabinet meeting.
3) Once cabinet approves it has to signed by Prime Minister, who is busy with other things like yoga, praying at river banks, political rallies and wedding receptions of movie stars and cricketers, very busy person, hardly stays in India.
4) They will print the PO and send to the vendor by registered post.
5) The vendor can start the work.

If AI quickly finds a vendor who can fix ASAP, Comptroller and Auditor General will write-up for paying $100 more. This remark will go on permanent record of the employee who signed the PO and cause issue with his/her career growth and retirement benefits, no one is going to take that risk.
You can have an AOG for a month but never should pay $100 more.
 
MileHFL400
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Re: Air India 787 collided with building at ARN

Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:26 pm

TheHunt3r wrote:
MileHFL400 wrote:
And seeing as many other posters have said similar things about them why don’t you question them too?

This sheeplike statement is a bad joke.
Making conclusions about safety from posts on Anet is just stupid. Planes colliding with objects while taxiing isn't that uncommon, it just happens. However any financially unstable airline is more likely to have an accident, as employees can be under more pressure. I'd generally avoid flying with an airline close to bankruptcy not just for safety reasons.


Excuse me? Sheep like?

I’ve made conclusions about Air India based on the fact that they have silly incidents with their staff and aircraft on a regular basis.

The plane hitting a building is one.

AI express hitting a wall in Tiruchippalli on 12th Oct.

Don’t call posters here on being sheep like before knowing if they have done their research.
Thanks and best Regards
AA
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Air India 787 collided with building at ARN

Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:42 pm

MileHFL400 wrote:
I’ve made conclusions about Air India based on the fact that they have silly incidents with their staff and aircraft on a regular basis.

The plane hitting a building is one.

AI express hitting a wall in Tiruchippalli on 12th Oct.

Don’t call posters here on being sheep like before knowing if they have done their research.


Why don't you list the facts i.e, list of accidents/incidents which led to your conclusion, not a.net opinions?

AI Express is on separate AOC, Are US3 the only ones entitled to not the mainline excuse?
Sweeping 787 early build quality issues under AI MX practices rug doesn't make AI bad. Glad they didn't buy PW A320NEOs or MAX.
Every airline has a few drunk pilots. How many countries have mandatory PBT prior to every flight and after every international flight?

It is a tricky gate for a WB on a good day, with light dusting on the ramp, maybe they missed the line, maybe too fast for the slick surface.

BTW, Where was the ramp marshall?
 
MileHFL400
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Re: Air India 787 collided with building at ARN

Wed Dec 05, 2018 7:12 pm

AI fanboys are the worst
Thanks and best Regards
AA
 
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seabosdca
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Re: Air India 787 collided with building at ARN

Wed Dec 05, 2018 7:13 pm

Slash787 wrote:
So as this aircraft is out of service at the moment, they are using another B787 for this route, so which route did they cut down or lowered the frequencies in order to operate this route?


There is enough slack in the 787 fleet that they should be able to absorb the AOG. If not, there is certainly enough slack in the 77W fleet to allow the 77W to take over a flight here and there.
 
TheHunt3r
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Re: Air India 787 collided with building at ARN

Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:12 am

MileHFL400 wrote:
Excuse me? Sheep like?

I’ve made conclusions about Air India based on the fact that they have silly incidents with their staff and aircraft on a regular basis.

The plane hitting a building is one.

AI express hitting a wall in Tiruchippalli on 12th Oct.

Don’t call posters here on being sheep like before knowing if they have done their research.


You can add this to your list. (avherald)
Incident: India B788 at Hong Kong on Oct 20th 2018, descended to 200 feet AGL 2.6nm short of the runway

More serious than a taxi accident IMO.

My problem with what you said is this implication (simplified): other posters on Anet trash AI => you should do the same. And calling AI a joke for no apparent reason, they are an airline with long history after all.

Anyway bird looks like it can be patched up unless something not visible from outside happened, though it's gonna sit on the ground for a while.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Air India 787 collided with building at ARN

Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:03 pm

Looks like ANE had a test flight on 1/8/19. Still there at ARN.
 
LAXLHR
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Re: Air India 787 collided with building at ARN

Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:41 pm

Not always reported wildly outside of India, but its well known that AI jets have scrapes all the time. According to a friend from Mumbai, something is always happening with AI jets, management, corruption....the list goes on. So yes, one can hardly compare one BA mistake to AI's numerous.

As for AF, yes thats also an absolute disaster of an airline!! Hull loses A320, A330, A340. CONCORDE!!!!! Near disasters 772, 773, A380. Honestly safety wise can anyone dispute that AF is a very dangerous airline to fly?
BA IB ET JM EA GK PA VS AA SN HP CO W7 WN NW DL UA AC US LH LX OS JL QF QR WY MH CX U2 EK 9W UK TP VY VN LO OK OZ UL SQ LA

707 727 L10 732-NG 741 742 743 744 752 753 762 763 772 773 787 DC8 DC9 DC10 M80 M11 100 AB3 310 318 319 320 321 332 333 342 343 380
 
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: Air India 787 collided with building at ARN

Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:41 pm

LAXLHR wrote:
As for AF, yes thats also an absolute disaster of an airline!! Hull loses A320, A330, A340. CONCORDE!!!!! Near disasters 772, 773, A380. Honestly safety wise can anyone dispute that AF is a very dangerous airline to fly?

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