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conaly
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Interview with LH CEO: information about future fleet plans (777X, 787, A350)

Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:25 am

Aero.de released an interview with LH Ceo Carsten Spohr. He talks basically about the problems at Eurowings, low capacity at airports and the in the skies, but also has some interesting information about the fleet plans within the whole LH-group. A short summary regarding the fleet plans:

MUC has more free terminal capacity than FRA at the moment, even though MUC has less slots. So the basic plan is now "smaller aircraft to FRA, bigger ones to MUC" as more passengers in FRA would reduce the overall quality of the flight experience. Therefore five A380s will stay in MUC, two more could be transferred from FRA to MUC in 2020. The 777X will arrive in late summer 2020 and operate from fall 2020. The first 7 of 20 777X will come without first class, replacing older aircraft that don't have first class, too. Depending on how much capacity is needed, it will replace either A340-300 for faster or B747-400 for slower capacity growth. Decision about the T7X will be made in spring 2019. Also he said, that the first T7X are planned to be used in Germany, implying that later deliveries could be used in other countries/with other airlines within the group.
Currently negotiations with Boeing and Airbus are ongoing for more wide body aircraft. Instead of the 14 777X-options, the B787 is also a possibility, also some more A350s. A350 and B787 would not be used at the same hub though. According to Spohr, both the 787 and A350 are suited to be used on lower capacity routes from the big hubs, but also in general for their smaller hubs. All new aircraft orders will be made for the whole group. Decisions, at with airline the aircraft will be used, will be done latest 18 months before delivery. Only decision so far: Brussels Airlines will get newer second hand A330s to replace older A330s, as every airline within the group must be profitable enough to fund new aircraft orders for themselves.

For 2019, LH wants to hold a two-digit number of aircraft (for Eurowings) on standby to keep the flight operations stable in case of problems like in summer this year. Also nine more A320ceo have been ordered, as they can be delivered much faster (than A320neo I believe).

Source (German): https://www.aero.de/news-30432/Kleinere ... nchen.html

I actually do hope LH keeps the A340-300 for longer in their fleet, as they are (as much as I am a fan of the jumbo) much more comfortable with their 2-4-2 layout in eco and 2-2-2 in business, than the B744 with 3-4-3 in eco and 2-3-2 in biz. Also it seems, the 787 is still an option for the group.
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upperdeckfan
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Re: Interview with LH CEO: information about future fleet plans (777X, 787, A350)

Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:53 am

Thanks for the summary, I hope it's translated to english to be able to read through it.

Statements about orders being for the whole group and every airline being able to fund their own aircrafts are quite conflicting, let's see how it takes shape.

On the other hand it's said that the first 7 77X will come w/o F, does that mean that the latest 13 might come with F? I heard a while ago that LH had decided not having F in future orders, is that a change?

Finally, does the interview talk about the roll out plans for the new J product they recently announced? New 77X will come with it but what about existing fleet?
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Re: Interview with LH CEO: information about future fleet plans (777X, 787, A350)

Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:01 am

upperdeckfan wrote:
Thanks for the summary, I hope it's translated to english to be able to read through it.

Statements about orders being for the whole group and every airline being able to fund their own aircrafts are quite conflicting, let's see how it takes shape.

On the other hand it's said that the first 7 77X will come w/o F, does that mean that the latest 13 might come with F? I heard a while ago that LH had decided not having F in future orders, is that a change?

Finally, does the interview talk about the roll out plans for the new J product they recently announced? New 77X will come with it but what about existing fleet?



In the interview is also a statement that approx. 50% of the longhaul fleet is supposed to have a First Class, regarding current fleet and future orders.
If I remember correctly there was also information at one point that the 777-9 will feature an all new First Class and all new Premium Eco (together with the all new Business Class). The Economy seats will be those from the EDW A340.

There is no info about bringing the new J to the existing fleet. But it would be strange if this won't happen.
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Re: Interview with LH CEO: information about future fleet plans (777X, 787, A350)

Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:10 am

Thank you for sharing.

conaly wrote:
...the first T7X are planned to be used in Germany, implying that later deliveries could be used in other countries/with other airlines within the group.
Currently negotiations with Boeing and Airbus are ongoing for more wide body aircraft. Instead of the 14 777X-options, the B787 is also a possibility, also some more A350s. A350 and B787 would not be used at the same hub though.


Indeed some 777-9 could go to Swiss, I guess to replace A343s. Although I believe this wasn't the original plan, I think the further options on the 777-9 (not the 14 reconfirmable orders) were meant for that.

I didn't interpret the article saying 787s are a possibility instead of taking the 14 777-9 provisionally on order. LH is negotiation with Boeing about confirming those 14, in conjunction with a possibility of a 787 order. The 787 would be an alternative to ordering further A350s. Personally, I believe additional A350s (at least for LH mainline) are more likely though.
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Re: Interview with LH CEO: information about future fleet plans (777X, 787, A350)

Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:22 am

Oh sorry, I forgot to add that part. But that's correct, it's stated, that 50% of the widebody fleet will still have a first class. It is not said which aircraft though, but I believe you can expect some T7 at least to have a first class.

But why another new economy class? They already implemented new seats with the A350 and they still have some variations between different aircraft, even the IFE can be different on the same aircraft type. Are there no plans on installing the current A350-seats in other aircraft on the next occasion?

Regarding the 787: Spohr confirmed to be in negotiations with Boeing, where the 777-options are part of it, which also included the 787. But you're right, it was not said, that it's an either/or decision, but a part of the whole thing. So additional 777 and new 787 orders are technically possible. The 787 would also be a possible alternative to additional (!) A350-orders.
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Re: Interview with LH CEO: information about future fleet plans (777X, 787, A350)

Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:27 am

Thanks for sharing this interesting interview.
Imho the B787 will not be ordered by LHG, even if it could be the perfect replacement for Swiss A340s, but also the A350 is.
So I think more A350s will come, and cannot wait to see the B77X too! Even if they represent the end of the classic B744s and the A346s...
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Re: Interview with LH CEO: information about future fleet plans (777X, 787, A350)

Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:32 am

He tells also that they will not invest in Alitalia, with its present structure, but could have commercial co-operation.
 
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Re: Interview with LH CEO: information about future fleet plans (777X, 787, A350)

Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:53 am

FatCat wrote:
Imho the B787 will not be ordered by LHG, even if it could be the perfect replacement for Swiss A340s

I think both Swiss and Austrian are perfect for the B787 in LHG. They both fly the 777 and the 787 will be an obvious expansion of their fleets
 
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Re: Interview with LH CEO: information about future fleet plans (777X, 787, A350)

Thu Nov 29, 2018 11:42 am

For swiss, the 777 is a bit to large. It would be better to have an aircraft in A350 Size. So I do not see the 777x at swiss.
The best (as Armchair LH CEO) would be: Run Swiss with A350s mainly. Move the current 777ER to LH mainline and replace the A346 there. Also add 777x to Frankfurt relacing the 744 finally.
The 787-9 would be the best fit for Austrian and probably Brussels.

The A330Neo has a wild Card?

I also Remember that LH asks the OEMs for a solution for their A340-300s (and probably A346).

Finally it will be a split order I believe.

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Re: Interview with LH CEO: information about future fleet plans (777X, 787, A350)

Thu Nov 29, 2018 2:08 pm

conaly wrote:
Only decision so far: Brussels Airlines will get newer second hand A330s to replace older A330s, as every airline within the group must be profitable enough to fund new aircraft orders for themselves.

So which parts of the group are going to be profitable enough vs not profitable enough?

It is kind of a self filling prophesy to keep giving unprofitable airlines older planes and expect them to compete with others that have new ones.
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Re: Interview with LH CEO: information about future fleet plans (777X, 787, A350)

Thu Nov 29, 2018 2:18 pm

So, eventually it is more of the same @ LH. They tend to have at least a little of every type, I assume so that they can develop service agreements via Technik. I'll still believe it when I see a tail painted re: 787 though.
 
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Re: Interview with LH CEO: information about future fleet plans (777X, 787, A350)

Thu Nov 29, 2018 2:45 pm

texl1649 wrote:
So, eventually it is more of the same @ LH. They tend to have at least a little of every type, I assume so that they can develop service agreements via Technik. I'll still believe it when I see a tail painted re: 787 though.


I can see LH not wanting to contest routes long term with the A359 against a 787-10 particularly to Eastern North America. In like configurations it will carry slightly less passengers at a higher weight.

Eventual PIP’s to the engines will make it a viable player to most of China and Japan as well. I suspect they are quite interested in the 787-10.
 
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Re: Interview with LH CEO: information about future fleet plans (777X, 787, A350)

Thu Nov 29, 2018 3:14 pm

Flyglobal wrote:
For swiss, the 777 is a bit to large. It would be better to have an aircraft in A350 Size. So I do not see the 777x at swiss.
The best (as Armchair LH CEO) would be: Run Swiss with A350s mainly. Move the current 777ER to LH mainline and replace the A346 there. Also add 777x to Frankfurt relacing the 744 finally.
The 787-9 would be the best fit for Austrian and probably Brussels.

The A330Neo has a wild Card?

I also Remember that LH asks the OEMs for a solution for their A340-300s (and probably A346).

Finally it will be a split order I believe.

Flyglobal



didnt swiss pick up a few of the last 777300ER production slots? why would it be too big for swiss?
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Re: Interview with LH CEO: information about future fleet plans (777X, 787, A350)

Thu Nov 29, 2018 4:02 pm

What he also said is that they are shifting larger aircraft to MUC which has terminal capacity and smaller aorcraft to FRA which has runway but no terminal capacity- ZRH is saturated as well and VIE offers growth.

Interesting Statement which every politician in Hesse and Bavaria should take notice of.
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Re: Interview with LH CEO: information about future fleet plans (777X, 787, A350)

Thu Nov 29, 2018 4:15 pm

Revelation wrote:
It is kind of a self filling prophesy to keep giving unprofitable airlines older planes and expect them to compete with others that have new ones.


So you can only be profitable when flying shiny new planes?
 
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Re: Interview with LH CEO: information about future fleet plans (777X, 787, A350)

Thu Nov 29, 2018 4:15 pm

B787-10 would be perfect in LH Network in North america
 
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Re: Interview with LH CEO: information about future fleet plans (777X, 787, A350)

Thu Nov 29, 2018 4:36 pm

Thanks for the link. Two new messages that I haven’t heard before:

conaly wrote:
Decision about the T7X will be made in spring 2019. Also he said, that the first T7X are planned to be used in Germany, implying that later deliveries could be used in other countries/with other airlines within the group.

I am a native German speaker and the way he mentions this does really indicate that not all T7X will wear LH colors...

conaly wrote:
All new aircraft orders will be made for the whole group. Decisions, at with airline the aircraft will be used, will be done latest 18 months before delivery.

Is that even possible from a technical point of view? At least for larger aircraft, how can this work when airlines have to specify the cabin configuration much earlier (and even in this interview he confirms that they do not plan to homogenize the products within the group)? Maybe he was just referring to the A320ceo‘s currently on order...
 
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Re: Interview with LH CEO: information about future fleet plans (777X, 787, A350)

Thu Nov 29, 2018 4:47 pm

N14AZ wrote:
Thanks for the link. Two new messages that I haven’t heard before:


I am a native German speaker and the way he mentions this does really indicate that not all T7X will wear LH colors...

.

¿Domestic flights with B777-9X?
 
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Re: Interview with LH CEO: information about future fleet plans (777X, 787, A350)

Thu Nov 29, 2018 4:59 pm

pabloeing wrote:
N14AZ wrote:
Thanks for the link. Two new messages that I haven’t heard before:


I am a native German speaker and the way he mentions this does really indicate that not all T7X will wear LH colors...

.

¿Domestic flights with B777-9X?

???
Why would that mean domestic 779 flights?
 
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conaly
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Re: Interview with LH CEO: information about future fleet plans (777X, 787, A350)

Thu Nov 29, 2018 5:38 pm

N14AZ wrote:
conaly wrote:
All new aircraft orders will be made for the whole group. Decisions, at with airline the aircraft will be used, will be done latest 18 months before delivery.

Is that even possible from a technical point of view? At least for larger aircraft, how can this work when airlines have to specify the cabin configuration much earlier (and even in this interview he confirms that they do not plan to homogenize the products within the group)? Maybe he was just referring to the A320ceo‘s currently on order...


Some time ago it was decided, that new aircraft shall be delivered in same configuration, so that those aircraft can be swapped easily between all airlines of the group, including LH, EW, SN, LX and OS. Hence the new LH-livery with white engines and white belly. OO-SFJ, a Brussels A333 (former LH D-AIKJ), which is operated for Eurowings, is already painted in Eurowings-livery with white engines:


Apparently they want also to use the same white color for all aircraft, so that spare parts can be exchanged without problems. For A320s delivered from 2019 this goes even further: all cabin equipment, seats, fairings and overhead bins will be identical for all airlines within LH group. It is not decided which seat will be used, but according to the source, all A320 will be equipped with 180 seats.

Source: http://www.airliners.de/lufthansa-group ... ngen/47102
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Re: Interview with LH CEO: information about future fleet plans (777X, 787, A350)

Thu Nov 29, 2018 5:44 pm

marcelh wrote:
Revelation wrote:
It is kind of a self filling prophesy to keep giving unprofitable airlines older planes and expect them to compete with others that have new ones.

So you can only be profitable when flying shiny new planes?

That's a really terrible job spinning what I wrote.

If I meant to say airlines can only be profitable when flying shiny new planes, or something like that, I would have written that.

But I did not.
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Re: Interview with LH CEO: information about future fleet plans (777X, 787, A350)

Thu Nov 29, 2018 5:54 pm

Revelation wrote:
marcelh wrote:
Revelation wrote:
It is kind of a self filling prophesy to keep giving unprofitable airlines older planes and expect them to compete with others that have new ones.

So you can only be profitable when flying shiny new planes?

That's a really terrible job spinning what I wrote.

If I meant to say airlines can only be profitable when flying shiny new planes, or something like that, I would have written that.

But I did not.


But what did you try to tell us? I didn’t spin anything, just asked you a question.
 
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Re: Interview with LH CEO: information about future fleet plans (777X, 787, A350)

Thu Nov 29, 2018 6:00 pm

LH779 wrote:
pabloeing wrote:
N14AZ wrote:
Thanks for the link. Two new messages that I haven’t heard before:


I am a native German speaker and the way he mentions this does really indicate that not all T7X will wear LH colors...

.

¿Domestic flights with B777-9X?

???
Why would that mean domestic 779 flights?

FRA-MUC....FRA-TXL...etc
 
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Re: Interview with LH CEO: information about future fleet plans (777X, 787, A350)

Thu Nov 29, 2018 6:08 pm

And again he did not mention the A330NEO. Which imho makes a 787 order extremely likely as Austrian, Brussels and Eurowings need a plane in that class.
 
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Re: Interview with LH CEO: information about future fleet plans (777X, 787, A350)

Thu Nov 29, 2018 6:19 pm

Would the price per plane of the origonal 779 order have taken these additional 14 aircraft into account? Ie yes LH can cancel them but would it then allow Boeing to raise the price ( per plane) of the (now) reduced order?
If that is the case it is in LH's interest to replace them with another Boeing aircraft.
From memory LH was getting a very good price anyway because they tagged the order onto the back of the ME3 order ( which in itself may have some issues).I feel sure Boeing's lawyers would have written the contract to cover any of these outcomes.
 
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Re: Interview with LH CEO: information about future fleet plans (777X, 787, A350)

Thu Nov 29, 2018 6:20 pm

pabloeing wrote:
LH779 wrote:
pabloeing wrote:
¿Domestic flights with B777-9X?

???
Why would that mean domestic 779 flights?

FRA-MUC....FRA-TXL...etc


But they don't even operate other widebodies on those routes and why would those planes not be in the LH livery. I wanted to know how you get from the statement that some 779s might not fly for LH (but for LX most probably) to LH maybe using 779s on domestic routes.
 
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Re: Interview with LH CEO: information about future fleet plans (777X, 787, A350)

Thu Nov 29, 2018 6:54 pm

marcelh wrote:
Revelation wrote:
marcelh wrote:
So you can only be profitable when flying shiny new planes?

That's a really terrible job spinning what I wrote.
If I meant to say airlines can only be profitable when flying shiny new planes, or something like that, I would have written that.
But I did not.

But what did you try to tell us? I didn’t spin anything, just asked you a question.

Ok, I'll play along.

Yes, there are ways to be profitable without flying shiny new planes.

Most of them don't involve starting with an existing unprofitable operation and adding old planes to it while their profitable competitors add new planes.

Usually that strategy doesn't end well.
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Re: Interview with LH CEO: information about future fleet plans (777X, 787, A350)

Thu Nov 29, 2018 7:37 pm

pabloeing wrote:
So you can only be profitable when flying shiny new planes


In the airline industry there is a strong correlation between CAPEX and profitability. You can only play the airline has to be profitable card for so long.

An alternative management mindset could revolve around opportunity and ROI.

The two mindsets often come up with different answers.
 
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Re: Interview with LH CEO: information about future fleet plans (777X, 787, A350)

Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:03 pm

Seems like a very German mindset to insist that every constituent of the group pay its own way at all times rather than looking holistically at what is best for the group as a whole. As mentioned above it seems like some short-term losses to grow VIE and renew Austrian's fleet, and to modernize the Brussels fleet, could pay off in the long run, but those options won't be examined as long as the mentality is "No Freeloaders, Everyone Must Pay Now."

Given the various capacity constraints I would think the following allocation of aircraft might make sense:

- 777X to LH for 744 replacement at FRA and A340 replacement at MUC
- A350 (either variant depending on capacity needs) to Swiss, replacing 343 and displacing 77W to Austrian for replacement of old 772s
- 787-10 to LH, displacing some FRA-based 748 frames to MUC (not 1 to 1, maybe 5 78J for every 3 748), with increasing concentration of 78J on TATL and 359 to Far East
- 787-9 to replace old 333s for Brussels and old 763s for Austrian
 
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Re: Interview with LH CEO: information about future fleet plans (777X, 787, A350)

Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:22 pm

seabosdca wrote:
Seems like a very German mindset to insist that every constituent of the group pay its own way at all times rather than looking holistically at what is best for the group as a whole.


It's a way of forcing wage/benefit/productivity discipline at the less profitable carriers. It's a way of making sure relatively more capital gets allocated to higher-profit uses. Every for-profit/multi-line firm plays some sort of this strategy.
 
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Re: Interview with LH CEO: information about future fleet plans (777X, 787, A350)

Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:39 am

seabosdca wrote:
Seems like a very German mindset to insist that every constituent of the group pay its own way at all times rather than looking holistically at what is best for the group as a whole.


Imho this is important, because it keeps the lower performing members of the group from living off the better performing. In the end what he says is not quite true, if the group as whole decides to modernize the fleet all members will get planes, but if one airline wants aircraft it has to show that it can pay for them on their own budget. Every large group works along similar lines. You want something extra, you pay for it.

It is like SN and the A330. The old ones need to be replaced and used A330CEOs are cheap and fit well into the overall fleet of the group. If SN wants something more expensive they will have to show they can afford it. When the group decides to replace the A330CEOs SN will get new planes too.
 
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Re: Interview with LH CEO: information about future fleet plans (777X, 787, A350)

Fri Nov 30, 2018 11:01 am

conaly wrote:

Some time ago it was decided, that new aircraft shall be delivered in same configuration, so that those aircraft can be swapped easily between all airlines of the group, including LH, EW, SN, LX and OS. Hence the new LH-livery with white engines and white belly. OO-SFJ, a Brussels A333 (former LH D-AIKJ), which is operated for Eurowings, is already painted in Eurowings-livery with white engines:


Source: http://www.airliners.de/lufthansa-group ... ngen/47102


What do you mean by "same configuration"?

For widebodies there is no business sense for an LH or LX frame to have the same configuration of an EW, SN or OS one as they serve different markets and demand for F/J have nothing to do with each other.
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Re: Interview with LH CEO: information about future fleet plans (777X, 787, A350)

Sat Dec 01, 2018 12:15 am

Looking at the financial situation with other airlines in the group. It seems like newer second hand A330ceo would be the plane LH choose for them. Knowing the commonality with their current wide-body and narrow--body operations.

If they are under scrutiny regarding the financing of the new aircraft purchases. Many of these airlines wouldn't be able to get brand new plane like B787 or A350. So those 2 are out of the questions. Presumably, the only brand new aircraft they could afford is a heavily discounted A330-900neo, but only if they get proper discount for it. Surely the capability of this aircraft would be good enough for their group. It should easily fit into the LH, LX and SN seamlessly, especially since they have strong TATL operations.
 
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Re: Interview with LH CEO: information about future fleet plans (777X, 787, A350)

Sat Dec 01, 2018 12:35 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
It's a way of forcing wage/benefit/productivity discipline at the less profitable carriers.

It's a way to try to do that, but in the end, the current employees are just going to go with "full pay to the last day" knowing LH has invested a lot of money to buy the businesses and has no intention of shutting them down. The end result is fearful and thus dissatisfied employees serving customers on ageing aircraft. It's not a great recipe for success, IMHO.
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Planeflyer
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Re: Interview with LH CEO: information about future fleet plans (777X, 787, A350)

Sat Dec 01, 2018 1:45 am

seabosdca wrote:
Seems like a very German mindset to insist that every constituent of the group pay its own way at all times rather than looking holistically at what is best for the group as a whole. As mentioned above it seems like some short-term losses to grow VIE and renew Austrian's fleet, and to modernize the Brussels fleet, could pay off in the long run, but those options won't be examined as long as the mentality is "No Freeloaders, Everyone Must Pay Now."

Given the various capacity constraints I would think the following allocation of aircraft might make sense:

- 777X to LH for 744 replacement at FRA and A340 replacement at MUC
- A350 (either variant depending on capacity needs) to Swiss, replacing 343 and displacing 77W to Austrian for replacement of old 772s
- 787-10 to LH, displacing some FRA-based 748 frames to MUC (not 1 to 1, maybe 5 78J for every 3 748), with increasing concentration of 78J on TATL and 359 to Far East
- 787-9 to replace old 333s for Brussels and old 763s for Austrian



Discipline, financial included is the hallmark of Germany. If only we could all learn from this!

With LH's strong maintenance culture I could see some 330's filling spots across the network.

I also think LH must be thinking about what B and AB will do in the MOM space as these planes will have a huge impact on all the tier 2 destinations.

I would love to be able to fly direct to Brussels, Stutgart, Berlin, and even Dresden from the US
 
ewt340
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Re: Interview with LH CEO: information about future fleet plans (777X, 787, A350)

Sat Dec 01, 2018 3:06 am

Planeflyer wrote:
seabosdca wrote:
Seems like a very German mindset to insist that every constituent of the group pay its own way at all times rather than looking holistically at what is best for the group as a whole. As mentioned above it seems like some short-term losses to grow VIE and renew Austrian's fleet, and to modernize the Brussels fleet, could pay off in the long run, but those options won't be examined as long as the mentality is "No Freeloaders, Everyone Must Pay Now."

Given the various capacity constraints I would think the following allocation of aircraft might make sense:

- 777X to LH for 744 replacement at FRA and A340 replacement at MUC
- A350 (either variant depending on capacity needs) to Swiss, replacing 343 and displacing 77W to Austrian for replacement of old 772s
- 787-10 to LH, displacing some FRA-based 748 frames to MUC (not 1 to 1, maybe 5 78J for every 3 748), with increasing concentration of 78J on TATL and 359 to Far East
- 787-9 to replace old 333s for Brussels and old 763s for Austrian



Discipline, financial included is the hallmark of Germany. If only we could all learn from this!

With LH's strong maintenance culture I could see some 330's filling spots across the network.

I also think LH must be thinking about what B and AB will do in the MOM space as these planes will have a huge impact on all the tier 2 destinations.

I would love to be able to fly direct to Brussels, Stutgart, Berlin, and even Dresden from the US


I don't actually see B787 in the future for LH. While it's nice, it's too expensive and require extra expenses for the group to operate. As we know LH plan to "gave away" their older A330 and A340 to other airlines in their group cause it's cheap.

I only see B777-9X exclusively, A350-900, and their current and old A330-300 and older A340-300/-600 to other airlines. The only possibility for now is A350-1000, because of the commonality. Meanwhile all narrow-body would be consisted of A320's family.

A380 and B747-8 would stays until 2030's.
 
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Re: Interview with LH CEO: information about future fleet plans (777X, 787, A350)

Sat Dec 01, 2018 6:52 am

ewt340 wrote:
I only see B777-9X exclusively, A350-900, and their current and old A330-300 and older A340-300/-600 to other airlines. The only possibility for now is A350-1000, because of the commonality. Meanwhile all narrow-body would be consisted of A320's family.

A380 and B747-8 would stays until 2030's.


The A350-900 remains quite expensive to buy, and a bit more expensive to operate than its lighter and lower-payload-range competitors. Unless Airbus is able to bring down A350 pricing substantially, I don't think the A350-900 will be a tenable 333 replacement. At current pricing it seems to me that the added expense of adding another type (787 or even A330neo) would be significantly less than that of acquiring A350s for all midsize fleet replacement needs.

It might make more sense to use the 359 only as a 343 replacement and then wait as long as possible on the 333s, buying additional used 333s to replace aged 333s in the short term and punting a decision on 333 replacement into the mid-2020s. This doesn't address Austrian's old Boeings, but perhaps they could be addressed by bringing A350s to Swiss, having Swiss hand the 77Ws down as 772 replacements, and adding yet more used 333s as 763 replacements. I think Swiss would do great with a fleet of only 35Ks and newer 333s, while a 77W/333 combination would work fine for Austrian.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Interview with LH CEO: information about future fleet plans (777X, 787, A350)

Sat Dec 01, 2018 5:41 pm

Planeflyer wrote:
Discipline, financial included is the hallmark of Germany. If only we could all learn from this!

I don't know if I'd go that far.

My interactions with Germans both here in the US and in Germany shows they do have tidy financials, tidy streets, and tidy homes, but they aren't really happy people.

All that discipline comes from all kinds of external pressures leading to all kinds of inner stress.

They should loosen up and take a few chances.

Relevant to this thread, LH should buy the kind of equipment that their daughter airlines need to succeed.

Of course we can debate if that is or is not A330ceo for SN, but my point is that excessive discipline is bad for morale, and may lead to this part of the group failing.
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Re: Interview with LH CEO: information about future fleet plans (777X, 787, A350)

Sat Dec 01, 2018 6:01 pm

conaly wrote:
Some time ago it was decided, that new aircraft shall be delivered in same configuration, so that those aircraft can be swapped easily between all airlines of the group, including LH, EW, SN, LX and OS. Hence the new LH-livery with white engines and white belly. OO-SFJ, a Brussels A333 (former LH D-AIKJ), which is operated for Eurowings, is already painted in Eurowings-livery with white engines

Apparently they want also to use the same white color for all aircraft, so that spare parts can be exchanged without problems.

LHT, financiers and engine OEM's would lobby for white too. On WB aircraft with engine maintenance (most), you pay a premium for a colour other than white. At end of lease, white pods are one less cost for the leasee, as they have to be returned in white.
 
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Re: Interview with LH CEO: information about future fleet plans (777X, 787, A350)

Sat Dec 01, 2018 6:07 pm

parapente wrote:
Would the price per plane of the origonal 779 order have taken these additional 14 aircraft into account? Ie yes LH can cancel them but would it then allow Boeing to raise the price ( per plane) of the (now) reduced order?
If that is the case it is in LH's interest to replace them with another Boeing aircraft.
From memory LH was getting a very good price anyway because they tagged the order onto the back of the ME3 order ( which in itself may have some issues).I feel sure Boeing's lawyers would have written the contract to cover any of these outcomes.

LH 777X commitment was placed at a time when 'soft' contracts had ended, so the price per unit of the first tranche, would almost certainly be affected by deletion of the second, especially as there are other customers wanting to defer or delete orders without penalty.
 
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Re: Interview with LH CEO: information about future fleet plans (777X, 787, A350)

Sat Dec 01, 2018 7:34 pm

Revelation wrote:
Planeflyer wrote:
Discipline, financial included is the hallmark of Germany. If only we could all learn from this!

I don't know if I'd go that far.

My interactions with Germans both here in the US and in Germany shows they do have tidy financials, tidy streets, and tidy homes, but they aren't really happy people.

All that discipline comes from all kinds of external pressures leading to all kinds of inner stress.

They should loosen up and take a few chances.

Relevant to this thread, LH should buy the kind of equipment that their daughter airlines need to succeed.

Of course we can debate if that is or is not A330ceo for SN, but my point is that excessive discipline is bad for morale, and may lead to this part of the group failing.


Haha, nice summary of se Germans

But I agree,old equipment doesn't really help
But maybe there is more ti the story
I would wait to order until Airbus is desperate to sell the A330neo
 
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kmz
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Re: Interview with LH CEO: information about future fleet plans (777X, 787, A350)

Sat Dec 01, 2018 7:45 pm

I am sure DLH will buy B787
- Good for LHT
- Good for competition
- Airbus failed to invest enough in the cabin
--- A330neo cabin not a real 9 abreast
--- A330neo cabin maybe not wide enough for new B/C product?

I think Airbus is good on cabin innovation. But they didn't go far enough with the NEO
 
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Re: Interview with LH CEO: information about future fleet plans (777X, 787, A350)

Sat Dec 01, 2018 8:03 pm

kmz wrote:
I am sure DLH will buy B787
- Good for LHT
- Good for competition
- Airbus failed to invest enough in the cabin
--- A330neo cabin not a real 9 abreast
--- A330neo cabin maybe not wide enough for new B/C product?

I think Airbus is good on cabin innovation. But they didn't go far enough with the NEO

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... eo-454074/ had some info on B/C for an unnamed A330neo operator, which we all know is Delta:

Airbus says the cabin interior proposed for the operator features a three-class layout comprising 29 business-class, 28 premium-economy, and 224 economy seats.

It states that the business-class cabin would entirely comprise mini-suites, characterised by a seat with surrounding furniture “intended to provide privacy” to the occupant.

So that seems to be a solved problem.

Time will tell if A330neo is of interest to LH Group.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
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Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
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Kindanew
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Re: Interview with LH CEO: information about future fleet plans (777X, 787, A350)

Sat Dec 01, 2018 8:14 pm

kmz wrote:
I am sure DLH will buy B787
- Good for LHT
- Good for competition
- Airbus failed to invest enough in the cabin
--- A330neo cabin not a real 9 abreast
--- A330neo cabin maybe not wide enough for new B/C product?

I think Airbus is good on cabin innovation. But they didn't go far enough with the NEO


The whole point of the Neo was that it was supposed to be cheap and quick to bring to market so it is easy to see why the cabin updates were minimal.
 
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kmz
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Re: Interview with LH CEO: information about future fleet plans (777X, 787, A350)

Sat Dec 01, 2018 9:48 pm

Kindanew wrote:
kmz wrote:
I am sure DLH will buy B787
- Good for LHT
- Good for competition
- Airbus failed to invest enough in the cabin
--- A330neo cabin not a real 9 abreast
--- A330neo cabin maybe not wide enough for new B/C product?

I think Airbus is good on cabin innovation. But they didn't go far enough with the NEO


The whole point of the Neo was that it was supposed to be cheap and quick to bring to market so it is easy to see why the cabin updates were minimal.


Hmm, and I thought the whole point was selling a/c. I really do like the A330, but I fear the worst
 
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A321Lufthansa
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Re: Interview with LH CEO: information about future fleet plans (777X, 787, A350)

Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:45 pm

kmz wrote:
I am sure DLH will buy B787
- Good for LHT
- Good for competition
- Airbus failed to invest enough in the cabin
--- A330neo cabin not a real 9 abreast
--- A330neo cabin maybe not wide enough for new B/C product?

I think Airbus is good on cabin innovation. But they didn't go far enough with the NEO

B787 is in fact also not real 3-3-3 as Boeing tricked it out for “normal” configuration when in fact it is packed and in many cases even worse than 3-4-3 in 777, for example the window passenger almost doesn’t have enough space from a window. So that was so cheat of Boeing. IMO ordering more 359 will be a perfect solution.
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Re: Interview with LH CEO: information about future fleet plans (777X, 787, A350)

Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:50 pm

A321Lufthansa wrote:
kmz wrote:
I am sure DLH will buy B787
- Good for LHT
- Good for competition
- Airbus failed to invest enough in the cabin
--- A330neo cabin not a real 9 abreast
--- A330neo cabin maybe not wide enough for new B/C product?

I think Airbus is good on cabin innovation. But they didn't go far enough with the NEO

B787 is in fact also not real 3-3-3 as Boeing tricked it out for “normal” configuration when in fact it is packed and in many cases even worse than 3-4-3 in 777, for example the window passenger almost doesn’t have enough space from a window. So that was so cheat of Boeing. IMO ordering more 359 will be a perfect solution.


Even though if the aircraft is fitted with the same 1.5” armrest like the A350, it can have the same oh so glorious 18” seats.
 
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kmz
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Re: Interview with LH CEO: information about future fleet plans (777X, 787, A350)

Sun Dec 02, 2018 1:27 am

A321Lufthansa wrote:
kmz wrote:
I am sure DLH will buy B787
- Good for LHT
- Good for competition
- Airbus failed to invest enough in the cabin
--- A330neo cabin not a real 9 abreast
--- A330neo cabin maybe not wide enough for new B/C product?

I think Airbus is good on cabin innovation. But they didn't go far enough with the NEO

B787 is in fact also not real 3-3-3 as Boeing tricked it out for “normal” configuration when in fact it is packed and in many cases even worse than 3-4-3 in 777, for example the window passenger almost doesn’t have enough space from a window. So that was so cheat of Boeing. IMO ordering more 359 will be a perfect solution.


I have to admit that I never flew B787, but I think the advantage the B787 with a 9 abreast layout has vs an A330 is the less curved side wall lining.

Image
https://www.flightglobal.com/assets/get ... emID=13916
 
Ziyulu
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Re: Interview with LH CEO: information about future fleet plans (777X, 787, A350)

Sun Dec 02, 2018 2:01 am

If they purchase the 777, I sure hope it's 9 abreast seating.
 
787X30
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Re: Interview with LH CEO: information about future fleet plans (777X, 787, A350)

Sun Dec 02, 2018 4:37 am

Given swiss are operating their 77W in a 10-abreast, it would seem a tough bet for Lufty going nine on the Nine.

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