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sonicruiser
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AA mulling move to LHR T5

Mon Dec 03, 2018 2:46 am

This would be a stupidly obvious thing to do if they only had more space at T5.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/american- ... erminal-5/
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jrfspa320
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Re: AA mulling move to LHR T5

Mon Dec 03, 2018 2:55 am

I just cant see how this would happen. AA need a significant number of wide body gates of which there is little spare capacity, and relocation would mean many BA long haul flights moving the T3.

Perhaps all BA/AA Americas bound flights could be from T5 with other from T3, but this seems worse than the current set up..just cant see it happening.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: AA mulling move to LHR T5

Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:11 am

When 50 percent of your customer's transfer to your partner BA, it would be immensely beneficial to put things under a single roof.
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Gemuser
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Re: AA mulling move to LHR T5

Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:21 am

LAXintl wrote:
When 50 percent of your customer's transfer to your partner BA, it would be immensely beneficial to put things under a single roof.

To you, for sure but would it be for your partner who would have to make other changes to accommodate you that may be more pain/cost than an advantage to them? After all not even all BA flights fit in T5.

Gemuser
 
Fargo
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Re: AA mulling move to LHR T5

Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:36 am

Uh, yeah, this needed to happen when T5 opened.......

All BA/AA need to be co-located in T5. No offense to IB, but AA’s longhaul flights are more valuable for IAG’s bottom line than flights to Madrid. Move IB to T3 and relocate AA and the remaining BA flights to T5. If there isn’t enough space, build the proposed 5D concourse.
 
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fraspotter
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Re: AA mulling move to LHR T5

Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:53 am

Is there any plans to expand 5B and 5C concourses further? From a Google Earth point of view it seems obvious but the reality on the ground may be different. If not then is there a 5D planned?
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LAX772LR
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Re: AA mulling move to LHR T5

Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:57 am

Gemuser wrote:
To you, for sure but would it be for your partner who would have to make other changes to accommodate you

....in exchange for (again) half your ridership.

You make it sound like BA isn't massively benefiting as well.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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mercure1
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Re: AA mulling move to LHR T5

Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:45 am

I dont recall the number, but at one of the IAG investor events it was mentioned that the AA JV provided the group several million incremental passengers. I presume much of this is at LHR onto what was historically loss making European services.

So it would also certainly benefit BA by getting as conveniently close as possible to ease the AA passenger transfers.
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janders
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Re: AA mulling move to LHR T5

Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:51 am

Seems sooner or later this will happen even if BA must move some of its own services away from T-5.

The carriers certainly must have a mountain of traffic data that shows which BA flights receive high percentage of connection traffic flow and their financial contribution and which do not. Those that don't can in worst case be relocated away to other facilities at LHR.
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jrfspa320
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Re: AA mulling move to LHR T5

Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:07 am

Fargo wrote:
Uh, yeah, this needed to happen when T5 opened.......

All BA/AA need to be co-located in T5. No offense to IB, but AA’s longhaul flights are more valuable for IAG’s bottom line than flights to Madrid. Move IB to T3 and relocate AA and the remaining BA flights to T5. If there isn’t enough space, build the proposed 5D concourse.


IB have one widebody flight a day which arrives in the evening, so relocating IB would be of no benefit. The proposed D concourse is where the current fuel farm is and relocating it is not that simple. Furthermore, the shuttle to the A terminal was only built with two trains running back and forth along single tracks, and runs at capacity as it is with two satellites. Ideally this train should be expanded to go through to T3 and thereby running in a loop back to T5, enabling more shuttles to run.....
 
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vhtje
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Re: AA mulling move to LHR T5

Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:19 am

What about IE, QR, QF, AY .... there are a myriad of oneworld carriers for whom an argument to co-locate with BA in terminal 5 can be made, for one reason or another.

The problem is capacity. T5 is full already.

Personally I would like to see the terminal 5 airside transit extended to T3, along with ancillary passenger and baggage handling facilities. That way, passengers on oneworld carriers could use BA’s check-in and arrival facilities in T5, but actually depart from and arrive into T3 gates. It would essentially turn T3 (or at least one pier of it) into an extension of T5 from a passenger’s perspective.

It would make transfers between carriers a doodle.

Won’t happen though.
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LAX772LR
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Re: AA mulling move to LHR T5

Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:25 am

vhtje wrote:
there are a myriad of oneworld carriers for whom an argument to co-locate with BA in terminal 5

Though not as strong as AA, unless they too have an immunized revenue-sharing j/v with BA.

Just because they're in the same alliance, doesn't mean they don't pose a competitive barrier.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
sonicruiser
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Re: AA mulling move to LHR T5

Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:25 am

The area where DL really has UA and AA beat is that DL-KLM transfer in AMS are a breeze.

AA-BA, UA-LH, and DL-AF connections are notoriously bad but AA-BA is a bit worse than the other two mainly because of actually having to physically change terminals.
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alancostello
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Re: AA mulling move to LHR T5

Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:53 am

I wonder are AA trying to make a decision before committing to their new Flasgship lounge at LHR? They’re not going move if they build it at T3, and isn’t the long term plan to get rid of T3 altogether and go full toaster rack?
 
B757capt
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Re: AA mulling move to LHR T5

Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:08 am

AA needs LHRs T5 and BA needs JFKs T8.

Can T5 be expanded? T8 can but it will require several hundred million dollars or so the original plans said.
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SeanM1997
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Re: AA mulling move to LHR T5

Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:55 am

When LHR's new runway is built (at present in 2026), Terminal 5 will be expanded westward and be double the size of today. That's 8 years away but Oneworld will likely be under one roof then
 
Gemuser
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Re: AA mulling move to LHR T5

Mon Dec 03, 2018 8:11 am

LAX772LR wrote:
Gemuser wrote:
To you, for sure but would it be for your partner who would have to make other changes to accommodate you

....in exchange for (again) half your ridership.

You make it sound like BA isn't massively benefiting as well.

I didn't say BA were not benefiting BUT you and I [unless you have access to non public information] don't know IF the benefit is greater than the cost of moving other operations out of T5 to accommodate AA. One possible point is that AFAIK AA does not use containerised baggage and I believe T5 can only handle containerised baggage. There could be other problems. My only point is WE DO NOT know if the marginal cost of accommodating AA T5 is less than or greater than the marginal revenue it would bring.

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LAX772LR
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Re: AA mulling move to LHR T5

Mon Dec 03, 2018 8:15 am

Gemuser wrote:
don't know IF the benefit is greater than the cost of moving other operations out of T5 to accommodate AA.

Pretty straightforward really: If they agree to do so, then it apparently is.
Last edited by LAX772LR on Mon Dec 03, 2018 8:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Gemuser
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Re: AA mulling move to LHR T5

Mon Dec 03, 2018 8:17 am

janders wrote:
Seems sooner or later this will happen even if BA must move some of its own services away from T-5.

The carriers certainly must have a mountain of traffic data that shows which BA flights receive high percentage of connection traffic flow and their financial contribution and which do not. Those that don't can in worst case be relocated away to other facilities at LHR.

WHY? IF BA is already receiving all that connecting traffic from AA what benefit would either/both airlines gain from moving AA into T5 with the subsequent disruption to other BA operations? The transfer from T3 to T5 is not particularly difficult.

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giblets
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Re: AA mulling move to LHR T5

Mon Dec 03, 2018 8:18 am

vhtje wrote:
What about IE, QR, QF, AY .... there are a myriad of oneworld carriers for whom an argument to co-locate with BA in terminal 5 can be made, for one reason or another.

The problem is capacity. T5 is full already.

Personally I would like to see the terminal 5 airside transit extended to T3, along with ancillary passenger and baggage handling facilities.
It would make transfers between carriers a doodle.

Won’t happen though.


Totally agree on this, it should be fairly simple, as it's a relatively short distance (and straight line), ideally they need it to go T5-T3/T2-T4 as the ground transfers really do go round the houses!
There is already the Transit to 5b etc, thought the could just extend it to T3 (though IIRC it's just 1 train per track, they'd need to put in some junction points to up the frequency).



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Gemuser
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Re: AA mulling move to LHR T5

Mon Dec 03, 2018 8:19 am

LAX772LR wrote:
Gemuser wrote:
I . . . don't know IF the benefit is greater than the cost of moving other operations out of T5 to accommodate AA.

Pretty straightforward really: If they agree to do so, then it apparently is.

Have they agreed to? AFAIK they haven't, so it isn't worth it by your own words..

Gemuser
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: AA mulling move to LHR T5

Mon Dec 03, 2018 8:19 am

Gemuser wrote:
The transfer from T3 to T5 is not particularly difficult.

Then by your own "logic," what then is the point in fretting about "disruption" of BA's operations by moving some of their own metal there or elsewhere, from T5.

Can't have it both ways.
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LAX772LR
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Re: AA mulling move to LHR T5

Mon Dec 03, 2018 8:20 am

Gemuser wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
If they agree to do so, then it apparently is.

Have they agreed to? AFAIK they haven't

...your post is of a particular banality, but addressed it anyway.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
Arion640
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Re: AA mulling move to LHR T5

Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:19 am

I’ll be very surprised if this happens. BA would have to remove an awful lot of their own flights from T5 to T3, annoying their own frequent flyers in the process.
 
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CARST
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Re: AA mulling move to LHR T5

Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:33 am

Actually flying from T3 is much nicer than flying from T5 as a OW frequent flyer. Just the better lounges at T3.

The transfer between both terminals is so simple and never takes very long. If I arrive from somewhere in Europe at LHR, jump on the T3 transfer bus (all airside) and go through the usually empty security there, I'm sometimes quicker back airside, behind security at T3, than it would take to go through transfer-security at T5, even if you can use the priority queue. The way back, it sometimes is annoying, waiting in the little ground levele cubicle for the transfer bus, but it's never a big hassle.

If such a move would happen, I would see BA doing something like making T5 their terminal for flights to Europe and the Americas, while putting all other flights in T3. This would bring in some relieve to space constraints, people flying from London (O&D) to Asia or Africa, could directly check-in at T3. But still. I don't see the need to change anything.
 
Sydscott
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Re: AA mulling move to LHR T5

Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:29 am

Like CARST I've done the T3 to T5 transfer plenty of times from both QF and CX. It's relatively painless and a simple bus ride. Sure it would be better if there was a connecter directly to T5 but there isn't and it's not as if it is difficult right now. So while I could see a scenario where BA moves some flights to accommodate AA, I don't think it's necessary.
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: AA mulling move to LHR T5

Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:20 am

Regarding T5D I was under the impression that it wasn't feasible without a major expansion of T5A which is effectively at capacity. Given the practice of holding all passengers at T5A until shortly before boarding, coupled with the trains to the adjacent concourses designed to only carry people in one direction, T5A needs to be able to accommodate ALL passengers using T5. Building more stands is the easy bit, but if you can't accommodate the extra passengers then there isn't much sense in doing so.

IIRC AA have about 17 daily slots. There is a chance that they could actually be accommodated in T5 relatively easily with more efficient stand allocation as that isn't a lot of flights compared to the scope of BA's operation, so I doubt that BA actually need to move the exact corresponding number of flights to T3 in order to accommodate AA.
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KLDC10
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Re: AA mulling move to LHR T5

Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:33 am

LAX772LR wrote:
Gemuser wrote:
The transfer from T3 to T5 is not particularly difficult.

Then by your own "logic," what then is the point in fretting about "disruption" of BA's operations by moving some of their own metal there or elsewhere, from T5.

Can't have it both ways.


You're comparing apples to oranges. While British Airways already operates a limited number of flights from Terminal 3, the situation is not ideal as it results in split operations, which is inherently less efficient than centralizing operations in one terminal. Staff roles are duplicated, baggage transfers take longer (especially relevant for tight connections) and yes, there is a certain amount of passenger confusion. Moving more flights to Terminal 3 would only compound the existing overlap and further erode the already crap passenger experience at London Heathrow.

This whole discussion is, unfortunately, a symptom of the political paralysis surrounding Heathrow and the lack of a long-term, expansion-proof vision for the airport. Terminal 5 is already too small to handle all IAG flights and accommodating AA there would lead to further displacement - a prime example of the folly of piecemeal airport development.
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Lofty
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Re: AA mulling move to LHR T5

Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:34 am

T5 B & C should have been longer but due to 9/11 some short sighted person decided to save costs and not finish them. Having said that if you extend them both you don't get any more parking stands as these are used already, you just reduce the number of coaching movements.

AA can fit in T5 but would need the agreement of Heathrow to use some of the T3 off pier stands such as the 590s to tow off to. This could be fun as BA T5 already have to give up a T5 stand, so JAL can stay in T3 with a BA A/C towing off to T5.

Stand Planning is extremely complex at LHR and my gut feeling is we possibly may see a limited number of AA flights in T5 this summer, who knows!
 
sonicruiser
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Re: AA mulling move to LHR T5

Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:40 am

Lofty wrote:
AA can fit in T5 but would need the agreement of Heathrow to use some of the T3 off pier stands such as the 590s to tow off to. This could be fun as BA T5 already have to give up a T5 stand, so JAL can stay in T3 with a BA A/C towing off to T5.


So basically what goes on at LAX right now?
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wenders825
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Re: AA mulling move to LHR T5

Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:50 am

I could see AY and JAL moving in first. a much easier move. AA would be excellent but 20+ daily flights is huge
 
lhrsfosyd
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Re: AA mulling move to LHR T5

Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:58 am

It would make sense to streamline destinations to one terminal. AA could move JFK and LAX flights to T5 whereas BA could move DFW and ORD to T3.
 
jfk777
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Re: AA mulling move to LHR T5

Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:02 pm

AA's Heathrow operation has about 17 flights daily with 777, 787 and A330 for PHL & CLT. AA would need about 5 gates at T5, there is no way BA has 5 gates to spare for any one. Another pier needs to be built at T5 for this to happen so this is years away from happening.
 
LupineChemist
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Re: AA mulling move to LHR T5

Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:23 pm

Fargo wrote:
Uh, yeah, this needed to happen when T5 opened.......

All BA/AA need to be co-located in T5. No offense to IB, but AA’s longhaul flights are more valuable for IAG’s bottom line than flights to Madrid. Move IB to T3 and relocate AA and the remaining BA flights to T5. If there isn’t enough space, build the proposed 5D concourse.


As a frequent user of LHR transferring from MAD. I'd be okay with this. The bus sucks, but the new flight connections center in T3 is good and more time in the CX lounge is always great.
 
LupineChemist
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Re: AA mulling move to LHR T5

Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:27 pm

Also, while there is paralysis regarding lots of things at LHR, we know there is a toast rack master plan so they could just extend the T5 transit all the way over to where T1 is now and get rid of the whole bus situation, and install stops at T3 and T2 for now. No reason you couldn't have arrival and airside segregation on the same line or indeed even on the same train in different cars.
 
Cunard
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Re: AA mulling move to LHR T5

Mon Dec 03, 2018 1:00 pm

[photoid][/photoid]
Fargo wrote:
Uh, yeah, this needed to happen when T5 opened.......

All BA/AA need to be co-located in T5. No offense to IB, but AA’s longhaul flights are more valuable for IAG’s bottom line than flights to Madrid. Move IB to T3 and relocate AA and the remaining BA flights to T5. If there isn’t enough space, build the proposed 5D concourse.


There is NO proposed T5D concourse people seem to continuously comment on that.

Heathrow Airport Limited have already made it clear that it is not proposed, there are already hard stands in place plus the fuel depot and fire station where a T5D would be built.

The long term plan is to eventually demolish T3 once T2 is fully built on the former T1 site and a full toast rack system of satellites will be completed with two additional satellites built where the current T3 is situated served from T2.

The plans for the R3 include an western extension to T5 with a new satellite building built between the northern runway and the proposed R3.

If R3 is built and T5 is extended westwards plus the addition of the new satellite then Oneworld will be under one roof.

It's all on the Heathrow Airport website and it clearly shows that there is NO proposed T5D.

There is absolutely no room at T5 to accommodate American Airlines and British Airways would never contemplate moving their flights to the USA from T5 to T3 plus there is absolutely no room in T3 to accommodate them.

It's not a great situation but it is what it is and until the extension to T5 is 'ever' built we won't be seeing AA and BA under one roof at LHR for quite a while.

There is an excellent CGI video on the Heathrow Airport website plus many images, the CGI video is also on YouTube.

Rather than guessing or proposing why don't people do a little research on the subject beforehand!
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skipness1E
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Re: AA mulling move to LHR T5

Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:24 pm

And however sub-par things remain with BA split across T3 and T5, it's NOTHING compared to the Hell that was T1/T4 towards the end.
 
sw733
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Re: AA mulling move to LHR T5

Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:02 pm

RyanairGuru wrote:
Regarding T5D I was under the impression that it wasn't feasible without a major expansion of T5A which is effectively at capacity. Given the practice of holding all passengers at T5A until shortly before boarding, coupled with the trains to the adjacent concourses designed to only carry people in one direction, T5A needs to be able to accommodate ALL passengers using T5. Building more stands is the easy bit, but if you can't accommodate the extra passengers then there isn't much sense in doing so.


Yes, this is my understanding as well. I believe there is technically space for a T5D (though of course things would need to move that are currently there, not the least of which being fuel and fire services), but there may be just enough space for T5D. But T5A is already a nightmare at many times, and like you said I have trouble understanding how additional people could be held in T5A comfortably, or even safely, whilst awaiting T5B, C and D departures.
 
AWACSooner
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Re: AA mulling move to LHR T5

Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:09 pm

sonicruiser wrote:
The area where DL really has UA and AA beat is that DL-KLM transfer in AMS are a breeze.

AA-BA, UA-LH, and DL-AF connections are notoriously bad but AA-BA is a bit worse than the other two mainly because of actually having to physically change terminals.


And you have to re-clear security at LHR during your layover...which, if it's during a heavy departure bank, might cause you to miss your connection.
 
skipness1E
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Re: AA mulling move to LHR T5

Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:35 pm

sw733 wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:
Regarding T5D I was under the impression that it wasn't feasible without a major expansion of T5A which is effectively at capacity. Given the practice of holding all passengers at T5A until shortly before boarding, coupled with the trains to the adjacent concourses designed to only carry people in one direction, T5A needs to be able to accommodate ALL passengers using T5. Building more stands is the easy bit, but if you can't accommodate the extra passengers then there isn't much sense in doing so.


Yes, this is my understanding as well. I believe there is technically space for a T5D (though of course things would need to move that are currently there, not the least of which being fuel and fire services), but there may be just enough space for T5D. But T5A is already a nightmare at many times, and like you said I have trouble understanding how additional people could be held in T5A comfortably, or even safely, whilst awaiting T5B, C and D departures.

They're only held in T5A cos HAL won't release the gate into until the last moment, they are trapped in the shopping paradise by design. If you release the gate info when you know it, usually -90 or -120 for long haul, that might help
 
Flaps
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Re: AA mulling move to LHR T5

Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:59 pm

Gemuser wrote:
janders wrote:
Seems sooner or later this will happen even if BA must move some of its own services away from T-5.

The carriers certainly must have a mountain of traffic data that shows which BA flights receive high percentage of connection traffic flow and their financial contribution and which do not. Those that don't can in worst case be relocated away to other facilities at LHR.

WHY? IF BA is already receiving all that connecting traffic from AA what benefit would either/both airlines gain from moving AA into T5 with the subsequent disruption to other BA operations? The transfer from T3 to T5 is not particularly difficult.

Gemuser


Perhaps they feel they can attract even more? Given the issues listed above with UA-LH and DL/AF connections maybe BA/AA see an opportunity to capitalize? The smooth DL/KL connections at AMS would in my opinion be something to emulate wherever/whenever possible.
 
luckyone
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Re: AA mulling move to LHR T5

Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:09 pm

skipness1E wrote:
sw733 wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:
Regarding T5D I was under the impression that it wasn't feasible without a major expansion of T5A which is effectively at capacity. Given the practice of holding all passengers at T5A until shortly before boarding, coupled with the trains to the adjacent concourses designed to only carry people in one direction, T5A needs to be able to accommodate ALL passengers using T5. Building more stands is the easy bit, but if you can't accommodate the extra passengers then there isn't much sense in doing so.


Yes, this is my understanding as well. I believe there is technically space for a T5D (though of course things would need to move that are currently there, not the least of which being fuel and fire services), but there may be just enough space for T5D. But T5A is already a nightmare at many times, and like you said I have trouble understanding how additional people could be held in T5A comfortably, or even safely, whilst awaiting T5B, C and D departures.

They're only held in T5A cos HAL won't release the gate into until the last moment, they are trapped in the shopping paradise by design. If you release the gate info when you know it, usually -90 or -120 for long haul, that might help

Is this information available to passengers via an airline app?
 
skipness1E
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Re: AA mulling move to LHR T5

Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:13 pm

luckyone wrote:
Is this information available to passengers via an airline app?

From experience, the BA app knows it before HAL will tell you, but not much of a time difference am afraid.
 
global2
Posts: 517
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:50 am

Re: AA mulling move to LHR T5

Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:31 pm

skipness1E wrote:
sw733 wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:
Regarding T5D I was under the impression that it wasn't feasible without a major expansion of T5A which is effectively at capacity. Given the practice of holding all passengers at T5A until shortly before boarding, coupled with the trains to the adjacent concourses designed to only carry people in one direction, T5A needs to be able to accommodate ALL passengers using T5. Building more stands is the easy bit, but if you can't accommodate the extra passengers then there isn't much sense in doing so.


Yes, this is my understanding as well. I believe there is technically space for a T5D (though of course things would need to move that are currently there, not the least of which being fuel and fire services), but there may be just enough space for T5D. But T5A is already a nightmare at many times, and like you said I have trouble understanding how additional people could be held in T5A comfortably, or even safely, whilst awaiting T5B, C and D departures.

They're only held in T5A cos HAL won't release the gate into until the last moment, they are trapped in the shopping paradise by design. If you release the gate info when you know it, usually -90 or -120 for long haul, that might help


Could anyone explain why this is? It's rather aggravating to have gate information be a big secret until the last moment. What other major airport does this?
 
United1
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Re: AA mulling move to LHR T5

Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:37 pm

global2 wrote:
skipness1E wrote:
sw733 wrote:

Yes, this is my understanding as well. I believe there is technically space for a T5D (though of course things would need to move that are currently there, not the least of which being fuel and fire services), but there may be just enough space for T5D. But T5A is already a nightmare at many times, and like you said I have trouble understanding how additional people could be held in T5A comfortably, or even safely, whilst awaiting T5B, C and D departures.

They're only held in T5A cos HAL won't release the gate into until the last moment, they are trapped in the shopping paradise by design. If you release the gate info when you know it, usually -90 or -120 for long haul, that might help


Could anyone explain why this is? It's rather aggravating to have gate information be a big secret until the last moment. What other major airport does this?


Money - Heathrow wants you to keep shopping and eating until the last moment possible as they profit every time a passenger spends a pound/pence in the terminal. Not so much when they are sitting at the gates.
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Aisak
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Re: AA mulling move to LHR T5

Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:02 pm

Cunard wrote:
[photoid][/photoid]
Fargo wrote:
Uh, yeah, this needed to happen when T5 opened.......

All BA/AA need to be co-located in T5. No offense to IB, but AA’s longhaul flights are more valuable for IAG’s bottom line than flights to Madrid. Move IB to T3 and relocate AA and the remaining BA flights to T5. If there isn’t enough space, build the proposed 5D concourse.


There is NO proposed T5D concourse people seem to continuously comment on that.

Heathrow Airport Limited have already made it clear that it is not proposed, there are already hard stands in place plus the fuel depot and fire station where a T5D would be built.


Well... No offense to IB but also no offense to you. IB runs SEVEN flights into LHR and a couple of express flights. And this is due to the optimization of slots usage by IB/BA where BA ops the first morning flights TO MAD while the first flights to land FROM MAD are IB's. That way no IB crew or plane has to overnight at London and the same goes for BA at MAD.

The let's call it "space" used by these 7~9 flights by no means would allow AA AND THE ENTIRE BA AT T3 to move into T5. Come on... It's simple logic. BA would have desired to fit in T5 since the opening if they could have.... And BA was smaller at LHR back then.

Moving AA at T5 to improve connections with BA would force some BA services out. And you could end up landing AA at T5 and having to go to T3 for the onward BA flight. Just what you wanted to avoid in the first place.

Not to mention AA would want to build lounges there.... Somewhere...

As per the T5D... Again!! I can't agree more with Cunard... It's not happening. Look at T5C... 12 parking stands connected by jetbriges and 4 remotes. That's 16 parking spaces. Look now at T5D.... 13 parking spaces. That's NOW.
So relocate the tanks, the fire station, bulldoze them, build a new building extend pax and baggage systems there.... After all those millions buried into the project, after blocking some of the existing 13 stands during the works on the world's most congested airport, what do you get?
3 more parking stands?

Really?
 
skipness1E
Posts: 4813
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Re: AA mulling move to LHR T5

Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:06 pm

Fargo wrote:
Uh, yeah, this needed to happen when T5 opened.......

All BA/AA need to be co-located in T5. No offense to IB, but AA’s longhaul flights are more valuable for IAG’s bottom line than flights to Madrid. Move IB to T3 and relocate AA and the remaining BA flights to T5. If there isn’t enough space, build the proposed 5D concourse.

Yes because 8 AA heavies on T5 at the same time is somehow exactly the same as the single A320 IB will have at any one time, building to 2 x A320 or 1 x A321 plus 1 x A346 later in the day.
American is morning heavy and massively so, and with nothing smaller than a B788 so can't use a split stand in the way an IB narrow body can.
 
Rudenko
Posts: 44
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:38 am

Re: AA mulling move to LHR T5

Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:22 pm

skipness1E wrote:
sw733 wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:
Regarding T5D I was under the impression that it wasn't feasible without a major expansion of T5A which is effectively at capacity. Given the practice of holding all passengers at T5A until shortly before boarding, coupled with the trains to the adjacent concourses designed to only carry people in one direction, T5A needs to be able to accommodate ALL passengers using T5. Building more stands is the easy bit, but if you can't accommodate the extra passengers then there isn't much sense in doing so.


Yes, this is my understanding as well. I believe there is technically space for a T5D (though of course things would need to move that are currently there, not the least of which being fuel and fire services), but there may be just enough space for T5D. But T5A is already a nightmare at many times, and like you said I have trouble understanding how additional people could be held in T5A comfortably, or even safely, whilst awaiting T5B, C and D departures.

They're only held in T5A cos HAL won't release the gate into until the last moment, they are trapped in the shopping paradise by design. If you release the gate info when you know it, usually -90 or -120 for long haul, that might help


It’s not ideal for the customers, as they either get lost, mad dash to the transit train, or are late.
We have a dashboard at our work that shows the stand, so typically if I am on a flight at 18.00 I can check this info at say 16.00?and it may say G-XXXX stand 501 etc.


Basically I know it’s leaving from T5 Gate A1, it’s a nice headstart, but always good to double check.( Great help for staff but not the normal punter though!!)

It is a real shame Pax don’t have more time to get to their gates, it’s a bit unfair, and I dont see that much anywhere apart from LHR.


Rgds

Rudenko
 
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FlyCaledonian
Posts: 1981
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 6:18 am

Re: AA mulling move to LHR T5

Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:49 am

lhrsfosyd wrote:
It would make sense to streamline destinations to one terminal. AA could move JFK and LAX flights to T5 whereas BA could move DFW and ORD to T3.

I'd actually advocate BA moving their JFK flights into T3 to really maximise the effective AA/BA "shuttle", possibly with EWR as well. I'd hazard a guess these are O&D heavy up front too. However, it would need BA to improve their T3 lounge offering with LHR-JFK effectively being their flagship route. Couple of other points:
  • This only really makes sense if BA were also in T8 at JFK to help AA/BA make LHR-JFK a really slick operation;
  • Would AA contemplate LHR split ops - BA moving the JFK/EWR flights to T3 could let AA move PHL, RDU, CLT, DFW and ORD to T5 as I would hazard these are the flights that generate the most connections at both ends. LAX and MIA could stay at T3 possibly and maybe with BA joining them?
Let's Go British Caledonian!
 
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chepos
Posts: 7273
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2000 9:40 am

Re: AA mulling move to LHR T5

Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:39 am

FlyCaledonian wrote:
lhrsfosyd wrote:
It would make sense to streamline destinations to one terminal. AA could move JFK and LAX flights to T5 whereas BA could move DFW and ORD to T3.

I'd actually advocate BA moving their JFK flights into T3 to really maximise the effective AA/BA "shuttle", possibly with EWR as well. I'd hazard a guess these are O&D heavy up front too. However, it would need BA to improve their T3 lounge offering with LHR-JFK effectively being their flagship route. Couple of other points:
  • This only really makes sense if BA were also in T8 at JFK to help AA/BA make LHR-JFK a really slick operation;
  • Would AA contemplate LHR split ops - BA moving the JFK/EWR flights to T3 could let AA move PHL, RDU, CLT, DFW and ORD to T5 as I would hazard these are the flights that generate the most connections at both ends. LAX and MIA could stay at T3 possibly and maybe with BA joining them?


I believe BA’s LHR MIA already operates out of T3, along with PHX, DEN, LAS (In the US).
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