a350lover
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Posts: 435
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:21 am

Emirates fleet

Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:10 pm

Eternal discussion, Boeing vs Airbus. The A380 vs the 777.

We can agree Emirates has followed a rather conservative/homogenic strategy when it comes to fleet, which these days is mainly formed of two models:

-A380s: main operator of the model in the World: has 107.
First one A6-EDA delivered in July 2008, last one A6-EVE delivered in Nov 2018.
-B777s: EK has both variants -200 -300. 147 in total.
First one A6-EBB delivered in August 2005, last one A6-EQO delivered in August 2018.

Both aircrafts have been of vital importance for Emirates. Both have fueled up one of the most radipe and global expansions of an airline in the World.

Would all this have been possible with just a single aircraft model? In that case, which one?

What has each model contributed to? What's next for Emirates after these two giants of the commercial aviation? Despite the models on order, do you expect Emirates leaving this sort of purist strategy in terms of fleet? Is this part of the success of Emirates?
 
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enilria
Posts: 8726
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:15 pm

Re: Emirates fleet

Thu Dec 06, 2018 12:50 am

As a fairly new airline, they were the rare case for the A380 because they don’t have a lot of grandfathered traffic rights. Having said that, they fly to a lot of places that don’t have capacity limits, so they needed at least two fleet types.
 
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PerfectGriffin
Posts: 511
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Re: Emirates fleet

Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:14 am

They could have done it with only the B77W. The A380 works for them to airports where they are restricted by traffic rights or landing slots like LHR, CDG, ICN etc.Even their own hub DXB is slot restricted, and the A380's work really well since one wave of flights feeds another. But if they ever move to the new DWC airport, I don't think they will need the A380 as much.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Emirates fleet

Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:16 am

Conservative? When times were good they flew:
A332
A343
A345
A388
77A
77E
77L
773
77W

They grew quickly by buying barely used aircraft (A343).

Their main success was by leasing. This allowed for flexibility. Once EK was large enough, they were able to negotiate good prices on 77W, A380, 779, and 787s (still not firmed?).

While they kept the 777s a while, they used leases to dispose of A332s and A343s. For A345s they used resale guarantees (as if it were a lease).

They are temporarily at a 777/A380 fleet. If DXB magically gained a runway, they would have a smaller widebody and more FlyDubai flights.

EK is at an interesting crossroads. It must be managed for profit (to fund Dubai and pay for DWC expansion), as well as bring in business for Dubai.

IMHO, they maxed out DXB at just the right time to prevent over-expanding.

Neither model on their own would work.

Lightsaber
You only have the first amendment with the 2nd. If you're not going to offend someone with what you say, you don't have the 1st.
 
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SEPilot
Posts: 5168
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 10:21 pm

Re: Emirates fleet

Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:26 am

The question is, will they be able to fill (and find pilots for) all the planes they have on order? There is a limit to everything, including EK’s growth.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
jagraham
Posts: 588
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2016 11:10 pm

Re: Emirates fleet

Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:37 am

There are places EK can fly only once or twice a day. Unlike flying within the US or Europe, what EK does is mostly governed by bilateral treaties and there is no inalienable right for EK to up their frequencies. Since the scissor hub works so well for EK, there are places they need to fly A380s to meet demand. Other airlines need A380s too, but not more than 20 (most not more than 10).
So the real question is how many places are there where EK flies A380s that they couldn't fly 77Ws at a 3 to 2 (or 2 to 1 if there is one A380 flight now) ratio, and how much would it hurt to downgauge those places to 77Ws on a 1 for 1 basis?
 
xwb777
Posts: 249
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:13 pm

Re: Emirates fleet

Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:51 am

a350lover wrote:
Eternal discussion, Boeing vs Airbus. The A380 vs the 777.

We can agree Emirates has followed a rather conservative/homogenic strategy when it comes to fleet, which these days is mainly formed of two models:

-A380s: main operator of the model in the World: has 107.
First one A6-EDA delivered in July 2008, last one A6-EVE delivered in Nov 2018.
-B777s: EK has both variants -200 -300. 147 in total.
First one A6-EBB delivered in August 2005, last one A6-EQO delivered in August 2018.

Both aircrafts have been of vital importance for Emirates. Both have fueled up one of the most radipe and global expansions of an airline in the World.

Would all this have been possible with just a single aircraft model? In that case, which one?

What has each model contributed to? What's next for Emirates after these two giants of the commercial aviation? Despite the models on order, do you expect Emirates leaving this sort of purist strategy in terms of fleet? Is this part of the success of Emirates?


The last B77W delivered (A6-EQP), was on Nov 30.
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 7769
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

Re: Emirates fleet

Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:25 am

SEPilot wrote:
The question is, will they be able to fill (and find pilots for) all the planes they have on order? There is a limit to everything, including EK’s growth.


The 777 order are for replacement. Big part of the A380 orders will be replacement too.
 
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Slash787
Posts: 765
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2016 9:37 pm

Re: Emirates fleet

Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:20 am

As they have the B787-10 on order, will that be used for new routes? I guess it will be used on some medium haul Europe/African/Asian routes but my question is that for example they use a B777 which has more capacity than the B787-10 and the flights are going almost full, so if the flights are going full then why would they need a B787-10? and if the flights are not going full on some routes then shouldn't they have taken the delivery of a small aircraft than the B777 right now rather than wait for 2022?
 
TC957
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Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 1:12 pm

Re: Emirates fleet

Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:02 am

Has the 787-10 order been 100% confirmed and signed off now ?
 
xwb777
Posts: 249
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:13 pm

Re: Emirates fleet

Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:30 am

TC957 wrote:
Has the 787-10 order been 100% confirmed and signed off now ?


No. Its still an unconditional order.
 
Jomar777
Posts: 244
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 8:45 am

Re: Emirates fleet

Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:37 am

PerfectGriffin wrote:
They could have done it with only the B77W. The A380 works for them to airports where they are restricted by traffic rights or landing slots like LHR, CDG, ICN etc.Even their own hub DXB is slot restricted, and the A380's work really well since one wave of flights feeds another. But if they ever move to the new DWC airport, I don't think they will need the A380 as much.


100% certain that they will be in DWC at some point since DXB is to close in future (shoujld be near future but the UAE keeps changing their prognostics...) and no longer can be expanded.

When they do go to DWC, I believe that it will not change much their plans.
 
emiratesdriver
Posts: 223
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2016 9:04 pm

Re: Emirates fleet

Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:42 am

All this talk of a move to DWC ignores 2 things.

1. Dubai Inc can’t fund it thanks to 2020.
2. EK isn’t making money at the moment.
 
smartplane
Posts: 283
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:23 pm

Re: Emirates fleet

Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:58 am

xwb777 wrote:
TC957 wrote:
Has the 787-10 order been 100% confirmed and signed off now ?


No. Its still an unconditional order.

Should only be a commitment until an engine is selected, at which point it will become an order. If the 40 are split into two tranches of 20 each, it's quite possible the first could progress rapidly to an unconditional order, while the second tranche could remain a commitment or become a conditional order.
 
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chunhimlai
Posts: 256
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2015 11:03 am

Re: Emirates fleet

Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:13 pm

SEPilot wrote:
The question is, will they be able to fill (and find pilots for) all the planes they have on order? There is a limit to everything, including EK’s growth.


No, they are short of crew and have to ground some planes on DWC and borrow crews from EY
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 6290
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Emirates fleet

Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:47 pm

They should have

787-10 for Shorthaul
A380/787-9/10 for Mediumhaull
A350/77W/787-9 for (Ultra) Longhaul

The current fleet plan is good to squeeze every last drop from the crew until they put in papers. Nothing else.
 
Fatbus
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 9:14 am

Re: Emirates fleet

Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:02 pm

Barely used 343's , had to laugh . Also rapidly expanded with 8 ? Current 777 fleet to start reducing @10%, 380 still increasing in total numbers @15%

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