User avatar
CARST
Topic Author
Posts: 1444
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 11:00 pm

Why is Airbus parking large number of A350s in Toulouse?

Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:25 am



I just saw this photo on the index page. What's up here? Why is Airbus storing such a large number of A350s?

That looks nearly like Everett after the initial 787 fiasco.

Is it just customers being slow picking up their birds? Or can some customer not make the full payments? Or is there a production problem? Engines not getting delivered quickly enought? What is it?
 
TC957
Posts: 3168
Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 1:12 pm

Re: Why is Airbus parking large number of A350s in Toulouse?

Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:31 am

I suspect the 3 Hainan ones are awaiting funds, and the others are most likely due for QR who are as we all know have been slow to accept them.
 
LifelinerOne
Posts: 1565
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2003 10:30 pm

Re: Why is Airbus parking large number of A350s in Toulouse?

Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:32 am

Most of these are for the HNA Group. They are having cashflow issues and therefore Airbus slowing deliveries. They did the same with A330s. These deliveries are picking up again.

Cheers! :wave:
Only Those Who Sleep Don't Make Mistakes
 
ManchesterMAN
Posts: 1054
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 10:57 pm

Re: Why is Airbus parking large number of A350s in Toulouse?

Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:13 am

One of them is for VS as you can see from the wingtips.
Flown: A300,A319,A320,A321,A330,A340.A380,717,727,737,747,757,767,777,DC9,DC10,MD11,MD80,F100,F50,ERJ,E190,CRJ,BAe146,Da
 
StTim
Posts: 3065
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:39 am

Re: Why is Airbus parking large number of A350s in Toulouse?

Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:18 am

I think they are still working hard on the cabin fit and this is a bottleneck. FAL seems to be a pretty robust process now.

VS could of course have BFE issues as the first example and I think there is a new seat.
 
User avatar
Richard28
Posts: 2549
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 5:42 am

Re: Why is Airbus parking large number of A350s in Toulouse?

Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:36 am

StTim wrote:
I think they are still working hard on the cabin fit and this is a bottleneck. FAL seems to be a pretty robust process now.

VS could of course have BFE issues as the first example and I think there is a new seat.


I don't think the VS frame is due for delivery until Q2 2019, so it's probably just waiting in sequence for its turn for cabin fit and paint, with no urgency.

Yes, new Upper Class seat is expected on the VS A35K.

https://www.businesstraveller.com/busin ... -products/
 
smartplane
Posts: 283
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:23 pm

Re: Why is Airbus parking large number of A350s in Toulouse?

Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:44 am

They all appear to have engines, so that major payment milestone has been made.
 
User avatar
PM
Posts: 4962
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:05 pm

Re: Why is Airbus parking large number of A350s in Toulouse?

Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:03 am

smartplane wrote:
They all appear to have engines, so that major payment milestone has been made.

They certainly do not. Only two of them do. Look again.
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 7769
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

Re: Why is Airbus parking large number of A350s in Toulouse?

Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:10 am

Only two of those on the picture have engines and those two are actually ready for deliver to some of the Hainan group airlines. I have heard they will be delivered before the year end. I assume the other five are just waiting for outfitting.

The finished A330 for Hainan group were flown into storage.
 
smartplane
Posts: 283
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:23 pm

Re: Why is Airbus parking large number of A350s in Toulouse?

Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:12 am

PM wrote:
smartplane wrote:
They all appear to have engines, so that major payment milestone has been made.

They certainly do not. Only two of them do. Look again.

Apologies. You are correct.

Those without engines suggest awaiting fit out, awaiting engines, awaiting payment milestone, or combination.
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 7769
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

Re: Why is Airbus parking large number of A350s in Toulouse?

Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:25 am

There is one Latam frame MSN226 leased to Hainan in Hainan colours, that is delivered in regards to Airbus, change of ownership has happened and will be flown out in 2019.
 
User avatar
william
Posts: 2848
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 1999 1:31 pm

Re: Why is Airbus parking large number of A350s in Toulouse?

Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:01 pm

smartplane wrote:
PM wrote:
smartplane wrote:
They all appear to have engines, so that major payment milestone has been made.

They certainly do not. Only two of them do. Look again.

Apologies. You are correct.

Those without engines suggest awaiting fit out, awaiting engines, awaiting payment milestone, or combination.


One can't blame Airbus for wanting to wait till the check "clears" before handing over the keys.
 
Theseus
Posts: 218
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 8:35 pm

Re: Why is Airbus parking large number of A350s in Toulouse?

Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:04 pm

Could the two bottom one be MSN 245 and 246 ? If so, both have done CAF already, according to the spreadsheet...
 
Geoff1947
Posts: 440
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2016 11:28 pm

Re: Why is Airbus parking large number of A350s in Toulouse?

Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:19 pm

All commercial issues on the airline’s side. Reluctance or inability to pay.
 
Coexstud
Posts: 26
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 9:48 pm

Re: Why is Airbus parking large number of A350s in Toulouse?

Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:30 pm

3 are for cutter airlines 1 for VS and three for hainmen
 
sonicruiser
Posts: 57
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 4:18 am

Re: Why is Airbus parking large number of A350s in Toulouse?

Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:14 am

This would be the Airbus equivalent of Boeing's "terrible teens" 787 lineup.
 
User avatar
Erebus
Posts: 714
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 2:40 am

Re: Why is Airbus parking large number of A350s in Toulouse?

Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:41 am

sonicruiser wrote:
This would be the Airbus equivalent of Boeing's "terrible teens" 787 lineup.


Far from it. There's nothing substandard about these aircraft.
 
Orlik
Posts: 28
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 9:34 pm

Re: Why is Airbus parking large number of A350s in Toulouse?

Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:22 am

Hi
We mixed up several things together, and … no one is related to Boeing 787 terrible teens.
In fact, there are more than 60 A350 in Toulouse in various production stages and more of them stored than you can see in the picture. Fact that you see finished planes there is probably due to limited space on the Delivery center tarmac in the YE rush
a) HNA group – there are several planes tested and stored, waiting for HNA money
a. 226 handed over and to be stored into 2019
b. 245 TAM plane to be leased to Tianjin Airlines tested (4 flights – last on 19.11)
c. 246, 251 Hong Kong Airlines – tested (4 flights each – last on 7.11 and 6.11.)
b) QATAR – 8 planes – from time to time taken from storage - painted and proceed with cabin fit and engine installation
a. at least 6 stored 35K 215, 229, 241, 266 and 359 – 249, 257
b. 359 – 214, 237 waiting for Cabin fit
c) Virgin – 35K - 274 stored, to be delivered in 1Q 2019
I think in the last few weeks A probably preferred MSN‘s which could be delivered in 2018.
In November we have seen 10 FF, and today MSN 268 seems to be prepared already for second FF in December. To make the first engine run and RTO in one day seems to be the new standard.
Sometimes there are strange activities, which is hard to explain without insider info:
e.g. Painting of MSN 278 (SQ) and 279 (VN) without engines, both were subsequently stored
There is MSN 284 (CA) already one week on the Flight line, highest MSN before was MSN270 (HX). Is it really prepared for FF ? No reports about painting/engines.
 
audidudi
Posts: 1737
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:35 pm

Re: Why is Airbus parking large number of A350s in Toulouse?

Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:36 pm

Thanks for the update Orlik!
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 15816
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: Why is Airbus parking large number of A350s in Toulouse?

Fri Dec 07, 2018 10:35 pm

Orlik wrote:
Hi
We mixed up several things together, and … no one is related to Boeing 787 terrible teens.
In fact, there are more than 60 A350 in Toulouse in various production stages and more of them stored than you can see in the picture. Fact that you see finished planes there is probably due to limited space on the Delivery center tarmac in the YE rush
a) HNA group – there are several planes tested and stored, waiting for HNA money
a. 226 handed over and to be stored into 2019
b. 245 TAM plane to be leased to Tianjin Airlines tested (4 flights – last on 19.11)
c. 246, 251 Hong Kong Airlines – tested (4 flights each – last on 7.11 and 6.11.)
b) QATAR – 8 planes – from time to time taken from storage - painted and proceed with cabin fit and engine installation
a. at least 6 stored 35K 215, 229, 241, 266 and 359 – 249, 257
b. 359 – 214, 237 waiting for Cabin fit
c) Virgin – 35K - 274 stored, to be delivered in 1Q 2019
I think in the last few weeks A probably preferred MSN‘s which could be delivered in 2018.
In November we have seen 10 FF, and today MSN 268 seems to be prepared already for second FF in December. To make the first engine run and RTO in one day seems to be the new standard.
Sometimes there are strange activities, which is hard to explain without insider info:
e.g. Painting of MSN 278 (SQ) and 279 (VN) without engines, both were subsequently stored
There is MSN 284 (CA) already one week on the Flight line, highest MSN before was MSN270 (HX). Is it really prepared for FF ? No reports about painting/engines.

Facinating. Thank you. Is there a reason for so many QR? e.g., are we waiting for approved carpet? :duck:
You only have the first amendment with the 2nd. If you're not going to offend someone with what you say, you don't have the 1st.
 
Orlik
Posts: 28
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 9:34 pm

Re: Why is Airbus parking large number of A350s in Toulouse?

Sat Dec 08, 2018 2:27 pm

Re QR I think from the beginning it was not about carpets, but how to balance overambitious purchase plan combined later with Qatar government issues with surrounding Arabic countries. We can add A320NEO delays and their reliability to this and this is an outcome. Tailor-made delivery calendar with an effort to maintain regular production flow through FAL.
From my working experience, I know how difficult is to maintain your key customer at the time you missed your promises and he is in trouble.
 
User avatar
aemoreira1981
Posts: 2184
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:17 am

Re: Why is Airbus parking large number of A350s in Toulouse?

Sat Dec 08, 2018 2:51 pm

I have to wonder why the LATAM-owned frames being leased to HNA aren't just taken back by LATAM for its own operations. Why did LATAM put them up for lease in the first place? (LATAM is leasing or sub-leasing out at least five A320s as well---one to Air Travel to China - lease MANAGED by HNA on behalf of LATAM, three to SalamAir, and one to VivaAerobus.)
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 8726
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: Why is Airbus parking large number of A350s in Toulouse?

Sat Dec 08, 2018 3:03 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
I have to wonder why the LATAM-owned frames being leased to HNA aren't just taken back by LATAM for its own operations. Why did LATAM put them up for lease in the first place? (LATAM is leasing or sub-leasing out at least five A320s as well---one to Air Travel to China - lease MANAGED by HNA on behalf of LATAM, three to SalamAir, and one to VivaAerobus.)

Because LATAM don’t want/need them right now, especially with the 77Ws staying longer. Cheaper to lease the A350s out and get them back when you need them than go to Airbus hat in hand and pay fees for order deferment.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos