HarrisDPO
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Virgin Atlantic Pilots Planing Christmas Strike

Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:20 pm

Developing story I saw break on the BBC.

Pilots are planning on striking from 22nd December to Christmas day over a dispute over union recognition.

This could be quite disruptive for people trying to get home for the festivities.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46487672
 
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mercure1
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Re: Virgin Atlantic Pilots Planing Christmas Strike

Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:26 pm

Its been building up for a long time, so cant say its a shock.
Back in November, they balloted to approve a strike over the Christmas holiday and here we are.
mercure f-wtcc
 
sevenair
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Re: Virgin Atlantic Pilots Planing Christmas Strike

Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:32 pm

Well done lads and lasses. I hope you get what you're looking for.
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kiowa
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Re: Virgin Atlantic Pilots Planing Christmas Strike

Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:42 pm

Company says there will be no disruption of their schedule. Do they not need 1/3 of their pilots?
 
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readytotaxi
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Re: Virgin Atlantic Pilots Planing Christmas Strike

Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:31 pm

Agree, that does seem to be an unrealist statement by Virgin, note that strike dates continue into the New Year.
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Turnhouse1
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Re: Virgin Atlantic Pilots Planing Christmas Strike

Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:02 pm

Is BALPA the recognised union? The BBC article doesn't give a huge amount of background, but I'm guessing that some pilots have split from it and joined/formed another union (PPU), but the company may prefer only to negotiate with one union? BALPA are TUC recognised, PPU aren't.
 
BA777FO
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Re: Virgin Atlantic Pilots Planing Christmas Strike

Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:07 pm

My understanding is that after BALPA essentially prepared pilots for a strike over pay several years ago (after not having had a payrise for several years already) BALPA had a meeting with Virgin management who convinced them that strike action would bankrupt the airline and they'd all be out of a job. BALPA then unilaterally withdrew the 98% vote in favour of strike and cancelled it.

Obviously disgruntled, something like 75% of Virgin's pilots are now members of the PPU and so they want to be the officially recognised union as they have a majority of the workforce.

Disclaimer: figures may be a touch wrong but the above is what I've been led to believe by more than one pilot at Virgin.
 
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QR875
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Re: Virgin Atlantic Pilots Planing Christmas Strike

Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:33 pm

Now I'm worried, I'm flying out of LHR on the 22nd to HKG, and LHR is only a connection airport for me...
 
FCAFLYBOY
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Re: Virgin Atlantic Pilots Planing Christmas Strike

Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:16 am

Not good for the thousands of VS pax heading to warmer climes for a holiday or people flying VFR!
 
sevenair
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Re: Virgin Atlantic Pilots Planing Christmas Strike

Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:31 am

It’s a pilots market. For too long they’re been seen as a commodity, just another expense or worse, a revenue source. Take care of your pilots and the rest of your staff or you’ll find yourself in trouble. Virgin are finding this out. Ryanair hilariously found that out recently. Good luck to Virgin pilots.
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AirbusA322
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Re: Virgin Atlantic Pilots Planing Christmas Strike

Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:49 am

sevenair wrote:
It’s a pilots market. For too long they’re been seen as a commodity, just another expense or worse, a revenue source. Take care of your pilots and the rest of your staff or you’ll find yourself in trouble. Virgin are finding this out. Ryanair hilariously found that out recently. Good luck to Virgin pilots.

Seems to be a Virgin thing. VX paid flight crew considerably less than competitors which ended after years of negotiations.

On the flip side Virgin Aus are some of the highest paid pilots in the world. VS has been around for a lot longer so no excuse really.
 
f4f3a
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Re: Virgin Atlantic Pilots Planing Christmas Strike

Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:51 am

From what I believed the virgin cc balloted for strikes. Over pay . However before the strike took place balpa hq saw that the reps in virgin had been inciting strike action before the vote . This is against UK law and the whole of balpa UK would be liable for the costs which would bankrupt the entire uk . As a result the group of pilots split off from balpa and created ppu. The problem is if you have two unions rep a workforce then it dilutes your bargaining power. Unions are also not allowed to go on sympathy strike in uk either . So the impact of this may be limited . The only union in the uk with any power are the train drivers . But they have a monopoly
 
avier
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Re: Virgin Atlantic Pilots Planing Christmas Strike

Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:01 am

Isn't there a better way to get through this? Than striking on the busiest travel season and disrupting travellers plans ? I find western labour Unions a bit psychotic in their nature. Read something similar about Air NZ maintenance staff. Happens often at AF.

If they are so unhappy with their jobs, they can quit and join another airline or industry.

I can't imagine some employees in other industries like banks, where they will strike over more wage . The wage is something they agreed on when they joined the company. And any increase of wages is the companies perogative, not employees to decide and say that rivals got a pay hike so even they need. The company will take that decision based on their financial situation.
 
Galwayman
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Re: Virgin Atlantic Pilots Planing Christmas Strike

Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:49 am

Can't see the strike being effective , passengers can easily be rerouted on via Delta at minimal cost and they've announced it pretty late , most non refundable Christmas flights will have been booked montsh ago .... they're announcing it too late to damage the forward bookings ....clearly not the brightest of unions
 
FCAFLYBOY
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Re: Virgin Atlantic Pilots Planing Christmas Strike

Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:39 pm

Galwayman wrote:
Can't see the strike being effective , passengers can easily be rerouted on via Delta at minimal cost and they've announced it pretty late , most non refundable Christmas flights will have been booked montsh ago .... they're announcing it too late to damage the forward bookings ....clearly not the brightest of unions


Hmmm I wouldn't be so sure about that. On the contrary, I think this could end up being highly disruptive for VS. These strike dates are at the heart of the festive travel season. Sure, DL and perhaps even AF/KL could possibly pick-up some of the slack. No doubt DL could be used to help get pax to SFO/LAX/ATL/JFK but they won't prove very useful for getting pax to destinations such as DEL/PVG/HKG and also most of the Caribbean, as US-Caribbean flights tend to depart early morning, before trans-Atlantic flights even arrive. Then you're talking about overnights in hotels, possibly for a few days.

All of that is said without then taking in to account that from checking loads my side, flights to places such as BOS/JFK/MIA/LAX/ATL are already very fully booked, they simply won;t have the capacity unless DL has a lot of spare aircraft parked.
 
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chepos
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Re: Virgin Atlantic Pilots Planing Christmas Strike

Sat Dec 08, 2018 1:53 pm

Galwayman wrote:
Can't see the strike being effective , passengers can easily be rerouted on via Delta at minimal cost and they've announced it pretty late , most non refundable Christmas flights will have been booked montsh ago .... they're announcing it too late to damage the forward bookings ....clearly not the brightest of unions


On the affected days everyone has high loads, DL can just do so much, if the pilots at VS strike it will be disruptive. During the busy holidays airlines operate a busy schedule with high loads, not a whole lot of spare capacity sitting around.
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sevenair
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Re: Virgin Atlantic Pilots Planing Christmas Strike

Sat Dec 08, 2018 2:10 pm

avier wrote:
Isn't there a better way to get through this? Than striking on the busiest travel season and disrupting travellers plans ? I find western labour Unions a bit psychotic in their nature. Read something similar about Air NZ maintenance staff. Happens often at AF.

If they are so unhappy with their jobs, they can quit and join another airline or industry.

I can't imagine some employees in other industries like banks, where they will strike over more wage . The wage is something they agreed on when they joined the company. And any increase of wages is the companies perogative, not employees to decide and say that rivals got a pay hike so even they need. The company will take that decision based on their financial situation.


I disagree. Airlines that I’ve been involved with have a habit of stringing our negotiations beyond summer peak so that if and when strikes do happen they’re usually threatened on a Tuesday late afternoon or Wednesday in early February when nobody wants to travel anyway and could probably be flown with partner airline who have spare capacity.

VS pilots striking will not only have a huge impact because it’s a busy time of year but the threat of ruining Christmas will be a huge negative news story. This at a time when Branson has been interfering with domestic politics. It will go down very badly with the passengers and the people. Not just here but the many thousands who use the UK as a connection from one flight to another and because everyone else wants to travel all other planes are full.

Fabulous timing. Well done lads and lasses. My only hope is that the weather is beautiful (well, as beautiful as an English winter can be) so that Branson and co can’t pass the buck and blame the snow/wind/leaves.
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FCAFLYBOY
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Re: Virgin Atlantic Pilots Planing Christmas Strike

Thu Dec 13, 2018 11:56 am

Any more news on this, I would have thought a PR machine such as VS would be quick to dispel any rumours or planned strike dates? Not good PR for sure.
Last edited by FCAFLYBOY on Thu Dec 13, 2018 11:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
FCAFLYBOY
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Re: Virgin Atlantic Pilots Planing Christmas Strike

Thu Dec 13, 2018 11:57 am

Any more news on this, I would have thought a PR machine such as VS would be quick to dispel any rumours or planned strike dates? Not good PR for sure.
 
Boeing74741R
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Re: Virgin Atlantic Pilots Planing Christmas Strike

Thu Dec 13, 2018 12:30 pm

BA777FO wrote:
My understanding is that after BALPA essentially prepared pilots for a strike over pay several years ago (after not having had a payrise for several years already) BALPA had a meeting with Virgin management who convinced them that strike action would bankrupt the airline and they'd all be out of a job. BALPA then unilaterally withdrew the 98% vote in favour of strike and cancelled it.

Obviously disgruntled, something like 75% of Virgin's pilots are now members of the PPU and so they want to be the officially recognised union as they have a majority of the workforce.

Disclaimer: figures may be a touch wrong but the above is what I've been led to believe by more than one pilot at Virgin.


It probably dawned on BALPA that a union's key objective is to ensure employment for all of their members, so it would go against that if it held out for something a lot more than the company could afford it could have led to them all being out of work.

f4f3a wrote:
The only union in the uk with any power are the train drivers . But they have a monopoly


Even then not all train drivers are members of the main train drivers union (ASLEF) as some are with the RMT union that mainly looks after guards and other grades. That said, you're right because a dispute with the RMT over guards can be partly mitigated, however if it's with ASLEF and they go on strike then the company won't be able to run much.
 
deltal1011man
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Re: Virgin Atlantic Pilots Planing Christmas Strike

Thu Dec 13, 2018 12:38 pm

FCAFLYBOY wrote:
Galwayman wrote:
Can't see the strike being effective , passengers can easily be rerouted on via Delta at minimal cost and they've announced it pretty late , most non refundable Christmas flights will have been booked montsh ago .... they're announcing it too late to damage the forward bookings ....clearly not the brightest of unions


Hmmm I wouldn't be so sure about that. On the contrary, I think this could end up being highly disruptive for VS. These strike dates are at the heart of the festive travel season. Sure, DL and perhaps even AF/KL could possibly pick-up some of the slack. No doubt DL could be used to help get pax to SFO/LAX/ATL/JFK but they won't prove very useful for getting pax to destinations such as DEL/PVG/HKG and also most of the Caribbean, as US-Caribbean flights tend to depart early morning, before trans-Atlantic flights even arrive. Then you're talking about overnights in hotels, possibly for a few days.

All of that is said without then taking in to account that from checking loads my side, flights to places such as BOS/JFK/MIA/LAX/ATL are already very fully booked, they simply won;t have the capacity unless DL has a lot of spare aircraft parked.


FWIW Delta wont be able to add extra flying to cover any of this IIRC. DALPA's contract forbids Delta from flying struck work.
 
TropicalSky
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Re: Virgin Atlantic Pilots Planing Christmas Strike

Thu Dec 13, 2018 12:44 pm

Should very interesting to see the ramifications if this strike does take place
 
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DeltaMD90
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Re: Virgin Atlantic Pilots Planing Christmas Strike

Thu Dec 13, 2018 1:51 pm

Call me anti worker, but I really hate how strikes can negatively affect thousands of people simply trying to go home for Christmas. While I hope the pilots get the pay they deserve and am not giving management a free pass, I view the people ruining travel plans (the pilots) also in the wrong. Flame away

Any chance this could be resolved and the strike canceled?
 
avier
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Re: Virgin Atlantic Pilots Planing Christmas Strike

Thu Dec 13, 2018 2:21 pm

DeltaMD90 wrote:
Call me anti worker, but I really hate how strikes can negatively affect thousands of people simply trying to go home for Christmas. While I hope the pilots get the pay they deserve and am not giving management a free pass, I view the people ruining travel plans (the pilots) also in the wrong. Flame away



True that. Most on here however have differing opinions. It's a bit brutal how a group of employees can hold a company to ransome.
They can quit if they aren't happy with their company. There are tons of young pilots waiting to get into the airlines. They can even hire from smaller airlines. Let it function as a free market. That's the way the other industries function.

Just imagine, a section of bank employees don't report to work because they want higher pay? Would sound ridiculous.
 
Armodeen
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Re: Virgin Atlantic Pilots Planing Christmas Strike

Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:26 pm

sevenair wrote:
avier wrote:
Isn't there a better way to get through this? Than striking on the busiest travel season and disrupting travellers plans ? I find western labour Unions a bit psychotic in their nature. Read something similar about Air NZ maintenance staff. Happens often at AF.

If they are so unhappy with their jobs, they can quit and join another airline or industry.

I can't imagine some employees in other industries like banks, where they will strike over more wage . The wage is something they agreed on when they joined the company. And any increase of wages is the companies perogative, not employees to decide and say that rivals got a pay hike so even they need. The company will take that decision based on their financial situation.


I disagree. Airlines that I’ve been involved with have a habit of stringing our negotiations beyond summer peak so that if and when strikes do happen they’re usually threatened on a Tuesday late afternoon or Wednesday in early February when nobody wants to travel anyway and could probably be flown with partner airline who have spare capacity.

VS pilots striking will not only have a huge impact because it’s a busy time of year but the threat of ruining Christmas will be a huge negative news story. This at a time when Branson has been interfering with domestic politics. It will go down very badly with the passengers and the people. Not just here but the many thousands who use the UK as a connection from one flight to another and because everyone else wants to travel all other planes are full.

Fabulous timing. Well done lads and lasses. My only hope is that the weather is beautiful (well, as beautiful as an English winter can be) so that Branson and co can’t pass the buck and blame the snow/wind/leaves.


I feel that aiming straight for the jugular by announcing a multi day strike at the busiest and most emotive time of the year is a mistake. Industrial action is a balancing act between hurting the company and maintaining public support. It would be more appropriate to build up to this on quieter days, to show the airline you are serious without major consequence initially. That's how it is usually done. Eventually you ramp up the pressure until one party blinks.

The pilots are going to get blasted in the public eye for this, with some justification.
 
BA777FO
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Re: Virgin Atlantic Pilots Planing Christmas Strike

Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:58 pm

Boeing74741R wrote:
It probably dawned on BALPA that a union's key objective is to ensure employment for all of their members, so it would go against that if it held out for something a lot more than the company could afford it could have led to them all being out of work.


The point of a strike is to give yourself leverage over the company. Balpa knew that Virgin could afford the pay claim after several years of a pay freeze (or pay cuts in real terms) and if it really did bankrupt the airline then management would have been neglectful in allowing the bankruptcy of the airline when it could have just paid the pilots what they asked for.

The point was Balpa told them it was an affordable pay claim, then balloted them to strike for it, then pulled the plug at the last minute. Credibility shot. Hence their desire for a different union to be officially recognised.
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Virgin Atlantic Pilots Planing Christmas Strike

Thu Dec 13, 2018 7:42 pm

DeltaMD90 wrote:
Call me anti worker, but I really hate how strikes can negatively affect thousands of people simply trying to go home for Christmas. While I hope the pilots get the pay they deserve and am not giving management a free pass, I view the people ruining travel plans (the pilots) also in the wrong. Flame away

Any chance this could be resolved and the strike canceled?


Agreed. And I lose any respect for a union that protects bad employees. Pilot unions routinely try to protect pilots that show up drunk, habitually break the rules, and those that pose a danger to the aircraft and passengers. I would never protect a bad coworker. They just bring me and everyone else down.
 
jetwet1
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Re: Virgin Atlantic Pilots Planing Christmas Strike

Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:01 pm

How far out would VS have to cancel flights to avoid EU 261 compensation?
 
IPFreely
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Re: Virgin Atlantic Pilots Planing Christmas Strike

Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:12 pm

jetwet1 wrote:
How far out would VS have to cancel flights to avoid EU 261 compensation?


Strikes are considered “extraordinary events” so the airline does not have to pay compensation per EU 361. The only exceptions that have been made are for unofficial wildcat strikes where certain employee groups call in sick, cancelling flights with no notice. This appears to be an official flight with notice, so no compensation.
 
jetwet1
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Re: Virgin Atlantic Pilots Planing Christmas Strike

Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:37 pm

IPFreely wrote:
jetwet1 wrote:
How far out would VS have to cancel flights to avoid EU 261 compensation?


Strikes are considered “extraordinary events” so the airline does not have to pay compensation per EU 361. The only exceptions that have been made are for unofficial wildcat strikes where certain employee groups call in sick, cancelling flights with no notice. This appears to be an official flight with notice, so no compensation.


Thanks, I was wondering about that even as I typed it out, but in the back of my mind I was thinking that giving an airline 3 weeks notice would take it out of extraordinary event, plus of course if VS cancels flights AFTER saying they wouldn't then I have to wonder if they would be covered from a legal point of view.

Back to the topic, it's hard to give raises when you are losing money, let VS get firmly back in the black and then start to apply the pressure.

I worked for a company that went through something similar, the union in question just couldn't understand how when we were just about breaking even giving out raises wasn't in the picture.
 
VSMUT
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Re: Virgin Atlantic Pilots Planing Christmas Strike

Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:38 pm

sevenair wrote:
It’s a pilots market. For too long they’re been seen as a commodity, just another expense or worse, a revenue source. Take care of your pilots and the rest of your staff or you’ll find yourself in trouble. Virgin are finding this out. Ryanair hilariously found that out recently. Good luck to Virgin pilots.


:checkmark:

The airlines started this themselves when they decided to play the market and demand game, and lowered the wages when the market was low. This isn't a one-sided game. We already know that they will cut wages even more when the next depression sets in, so we need to claw in some gains while we can.
 
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janders
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Re: Virgin Atlantic Pilots Planing Christmas Strike

Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:12 pm

VS seeks injunction to block industrial action

http://atwonline.com/labor/virgin-atlan ... ike-action

Meanwhile pilots have announced further strikes scheduled for December 30 - January 2 and Jan. 4-7
"We make war that we may live in peace." -- Aristotle
 
Saabdriver
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Re: Virgin Atlantic Pilots Planing Christmas Strike

Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:41 pm

So they get Christmas off, New Year off ... February mid-term break and Easter to follow then.
 
flflyer
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Re: Virgin Atlantic Pilots Planing Christmas Strike

Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:26 am

Christmas is not the time to gain public support. Most pax feel pilots may be overpaid now.
 
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SierraPacific
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Re: Virgin Atlantic Pilots Planing Christmas Strike

Tue Dec 18, 2018 2:20 am

I doubt this actually goes through without the company just agreeing to their demands or at least upping the original offer. It is good to see that in some parts of the world unions can actually strike unlike here in The US.
 
LAXLHR
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Re: Virgin Atlantic Pilots Planing Christmas Strike

Tue Dec 18, 2018 2:49 am

AirbusA322 wrote:
sevenair wrote:
It’s a pilots market. For too long they’re been seen as a commodity, just another expense or worse, a revenue source. Take care of your pilots and the rest of your staff or you’ll find yourself in trouble. Virgin are finding this out. Ryanair hilariously found that out recently. Good luck to Virgin pilots.

Seems to be a Virgin thing. VX paid flight crew considerably less than competitors which ended after years of negotiations.

On the flip side Virgin Aus are some of the highest paid pilots in the world. VS has been around for a lot longer so no excuse really.


Really, because pilots have never gone on strike at US or European airlines before??
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LamboAston
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Re: Virgin Atlantic Pilots Planing Christmas Strike

Tue Dec 18, 2018 3:14 am

Air NZ's christmas strike was called off after the airline cooperated, so it's the perfect time of year to force the airline to cooperate.
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IPFreely
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Re: Virgin Atlantic Pilots Planing Christmas Strike

Tue Dec 18, 2018 3:59 am

Gingersnap wrote:
On the contrary, this is the perfect time to hold a strike. To strike when the market is quiet would be foolish as it would have no impact, whereas they can get maximum impact on the company bottom line by striking at the busiest time of the year.


While this is a busy time of year for holiday travelers it's also a 7-10 day window with very little business travel. This strike will impact grandparents, families, and foreign exchange students trying to get home for Christmas -- customers who probably buy 1 or 2 tickets a year. Meanwhile the airlines' biggest and most important business customers, including the ones with high dollar corporate contracts, will be pretty well unaffected.
 
ELBOB
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Re: Virgin Atlantic Pilots Planing Christmas Strike

Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:56 am

FCAFLYBOY wrote:
... or people flying VFR!


Tangential, but can we please work on eliminating that acronym? "Flying VFR" has an older and much more common meaning in aviation than "visiting friends & relatives" and overloading it just causes confusion.

Even VRF would be an improvement.
 
kalvado
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Re: Virgin Atlantic Pilots Planing Christmas Strike

Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:20 am

IPFreely wrote:
Gingersnap wrote:
On the contrary, this is the perfect time to hold a strike. To strike when the market is quiet would be foolish as it would have no impact, whereas they can get maximum impact on the company bottom line by striking at the busiest time of the year.


While this is a busy time of year for holiday travelers it's also a 7-10 day window with very little business travel. This strike will impact grandparents, families, and foreign exchange students trying to get home for Christmas -- customers who probably buy 1 or 2 tickets a year. Meanwhile the airlines' biggest and most important business customers, including the ones with high dollar corporate contracts, will be pretty well unaffected.

And that is exactly the way union support gets ruined.
You don't dare to touch business traveler who has expenses covered by the company - but OK with stealing and ruining holidays for those who can least afford it.
To put you in my shoes:
Just remind me to treat you properly next time I fly with your airline. Hopefully, those on corporate contracts will be able to discipline you if you dare to retaliate.
 
BA777FO
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Re: Virgin Atlantic Pilots Planing Christmas Strike

Tue Dec 18, 2018 2:48 pm

flflyer wrote:
Most pax feel pilots may be overpaid now.


Is that based on your opinion or official polling? Just curious.

If it's so easy and so overpaid then surely there must be a huge queue of people just waiting to do it with the commensurate experience required?
 
RvA
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Re: Virgin Atlantic Pilots Planing Christmas Strike

Tue Dec 18, 2018 3:05 pm

ELBOB wrote:
FCAFLYBOY wrote:
... or people flying VFR!


Tangential, but can we please work on eliminating that acronym? "Flying VFR" has an older and much more common meaning in aviation than "visiting friends & relatives" and overloading it just causes confusion.

Even VRF would be an improvement.


I think that depends on what side of the business you're on. If you're on the commercial side VFR is known as visiting friends and relatives, not anything else.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Virgin Atlantic Pilots Planing Christmas Strike

Tue Dec 18, 2018 5:15 pm

From a daily news brief I receive.

Virgin Atlantic (UK) secured two aircraft via wet lease in an effort to maintain schedules as it faces the threat of a strike by pilots over Christmas and new year.

Any idea who the carrier is?
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SonomaFlyer
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Re: Virgin Atlantic Pilots Planing Christmas Strike

Tue Dec 18, 2018 6:05 pm

LAXintl wrote:
From a daily news brief I receive.

Virgin Atlantic (UK) secured two aircraft via wet lease in an effort to maintain schedules as it faces the threat of a strike by pilots over Christmas and new year.

Any idea who the carrier is?


Look to charter carriers like Hi-Fly and similar. IIRC they are non-union so those pilots (supposedly) would have no issue crossing a pilot picket line to fly for VS.

As to the notion that unions can't/shouldn't use their collective bargaining power, think again. Pilots are in high demand and VS has wage scales that aren't close to the likes of BA and DL. Their pilots have tried to address these issues for years but have basically been blown off. They are seeking to address issues on the table for years at a time of maximum leverage. There is nothing wrong with it and sorry if you are inconvenienced.
 
NCAD95
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Re: Virgin Atlantic Pilots Planing Christmas Strike

Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:23 pm

flflyer wrote:
Christmas is not the time to gain public support. Most pax feel pilots may be overpaid now.


In the current profits over people environment we currently live in I really don't think anyone is over paid anymore but I will say this there are employee's who like to get away with doing the least amount of work they can and that is just as much an issue as employee's being under paid and over worked.
 
garf25
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2005 8:26 pm

Re: Virgin Atlantic Pilots Planing Christmas Strike

Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:38 pm

Unions are no longer needed.
Do the maths on annual turnover of the unions as a business.
Look at the salaries of the people at the top of the unions.
Unions have a deep affiliation with the labour party, look deep into their hidden objectives.
When conservatives are in power, we see strikes across the country for the smallest matter.
When labour are back in power the strikes will end.
If you pay into union, you support all of this, you are a pawn.

I work with union 'executives' in the rail industry.
End.
 
OMAAbound
Posts: 194
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2016 12:43 am

Re: Virgin Atlantic Pilots Planing Christmas Strike

Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:01 pm

LAXintl wrote:
From a daily news brief I receive.

Virgin Atlantic (UK) secured two aircraft via wet lease in an effort to maintain schedules as it faces the threat of a strike by pilots over Christmas and new year.

Any idea who the carrier is?



Delta are provisionally lending us 2 767’s to cover JFK flights.

Departing JFK, VS4/3 & VS26/25, will be the rotations

OMAA
Right hand seat of a 787. Also can be found eating sandwiches, drinking coffee and attempting to understand Chinese ATC!
 
OB1504
Posts: 3603
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:10 am

Re: Virgin Atlantic Pilots Planing Christmas Strike

Wed Dec 19, 2018 12:01 am

ELBOB wrote:
FCAFLYBOY wrote:
... or people flying VFR!


Tangential, but can we please work on eliminating that acronym? "Flying VFR" has an older and much more common meaning in aviation than "visiting friends & relatives" and overloading it just causes confusion.

Even VRF would be an improvement.


As someone who has flown VFR in both senses of the term, you can usually tell that the poster means by the context. It’s clear that only a small minority of posters here actually work in aviation (particularly given the attitudes toward aviation professionals desiring better working conditions) so I don’t think there be much confusion to worry about.
 
fly4ever78
Posts: 59
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:17 pm

Re: Virgin Atlantic Pilots Planing Christmas Strike

Wed Dec 19, 2018 12:37 am

It always makes me laugh when there is some thread regarding a pilot strike on this forum!! The amount of anti-union and anti-pilot foaming at the mouth that goes on here is really incredible. I've been reading this forum from almost 17 years and I don't remember threads about how it was so unfair that certain pilot groups took 50% pay cuts to save their airline etc. But now that pilots are in short supply and said pilots want to get back what they lost in wages, it's suddenly unacceptable and wrong for a strike to happen on the holidays?! If you are so upset about labor and their actions, why don't you take it up with their management teams, who could solve the problem if they wanted to without a strike, (spoiler alert: THEY DON'T WANT TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM). There is a certain cost of doing business in this industry. If you can't handle paying what the market demands, then maybe you need to bow out...
 
SonomaFlyer
Posts: 2183
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:47 pm

Re: Virgin Atlantic Pilots Planing Christmas Strike

Wed Dec 19, 2018 12:50 am

Whatever theories are spouted about union membership does not apply by and large to the airline industry, especially in N. America and Europe. Say what you want about them but unions are a means to ensure there are decent work rules, quality of life protections as well as pay. It's not just about $$ its about a whole host of issues. The contracts themselves are extremely complex and govern most aspects of a pilot's life at the airline.

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