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Revelation
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How Airbus Plans To improve manufacturing automation.

Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:47 pm

Interesting article from AvWeek ( http://aviationweek.com/commercial-avia ... fect-storm ) featuring soon to retire Airbus COO Tom Williams, and focused on recent challenges in the production space.

Some snips:

The Airbus Hamburg factory, the main center for single-aisle production and the lead facility for building the A321 and A321neo, is in the eye of that storm. A combination of factors has made 2018 “a most difficult year for single-aisles,” Williams concedes. But as 2018 draws to a close, he believes the worst is over and that lessons learned from the production problems will help smooth the way ahead. Of key importance is understanding the extent to which it can automate production of legacy aircraft such as the A320.

“We were probably a bit overambitious” in applying automation to an existing aircraft that “was not designed with automation in mind,” Williams says. He notes that Airbus needs to be realistic and “pragmatic” about how it innovates its production system in the future—at a time when the group is aiming to become a lot more digital. While automation will become cheaper and provide benefits even on legacy aircraft programs, Airbus’ recent troubles highlight that the next big step can happen only with a new product that incorporates more of a “design for manufacturing” approach.

It correlates with what we were told earlier, that resources were being moved away from A321+/++ and towards "design for manufacturing".

As for the XFW storm center, one issue is a new automated line for fuselage production:

Aside from external factors, Airbus generated many of its own problems. Significant changes to its in-house production system created far more issues than anticipated, and that is where the automation question comes into play.

Airbus has started assembling section 15/21 (the center fuselage) and section 17 (center-rear fuselage) in a new automated line in Hamburg in hangar 245. Meant to deliver significant cost reduction and quality improvement simultaneously, the move has been beset with “teething problems.” Robotic tools, among other factors, created major internal delays. The line has 12 robots and six automated guided vehicles—operation of which has proved to be “challenging.”

To counteract this, Airbus put in place two manual backup stations that will likely continue to operate well into 2020. And 600 people were hired for narrowbody production to boost the recovery and ramp-up efforts.

Another is the new FAL:

The fourth final assembly line in Hamburg, phased in from late 2017, was another tough challenge, Williams says. While the line is “a big step forward,” as it no longer features big steel jigs and has “more agile systems,” it had its share of problems, too. Among them, precise maneuvering of the sections was more difficult than anticipated.

In order to be able to move around the aircraft within the physical confines of the building, which provides one-third less space than the legacy system, Airbus got rid of all fixed jigs. Every jig is on wheels and can be placed anywhere in the hangar formerly used in the A380 program. The aircraft components are transported on mobile tooling platforms (MTP). There are three pairs of MTPs for fuselage sections and two pairs for wings.

The stations now use a higher degree of automation and robotics. About 80% of the 2,800 holes for the circumferential joint between the fuselage sections are now drilled by two robots; manual labor is greatly reduced.

Since 777 is going to a MTP system for both 777 and 777x, they should pay attention to these issues.

The article goes on to mention the shift of production is now shifting towards A321 with 25% now and 40% in the future, and these planes tend to more often have "richer specifications" with 2 or 3 class cabins, which add time and complexity to the process.

It says that Airbus Cabin Flex A321 has 50% higher production workload relative to A320, due to more over wing exits, relocation of the existing exits, movement of the rear pressure bulkhead, etc which makes all the wiring runs different.

And to finish off:

Further challenges lie ahead. Airbus plans to produce about 15 “heads of versions” (the first aircraft for a new customer) for the A321neo this year. That number is going double in 2019 and stay at that level for some time. All will be assembled in Hamburg.Williams is sanguine the increase will work because the rate of design reuse across the various new versions is becoming much higher.

As we say on a.net, these are classy kinds of problems to have.
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anshabhi
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Re: How Airbus Plans To Fly Out Of Its ‘Perfect Storm’

Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:53 pm

None of them is as big as the main engines blowing up, around the globe! I think Airbus has seen the worst already and if it doesn't face engine supply and operational issues, it's going to do pretty good in future.
 
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Re: How Airbus Plans To Fly Out Of Its ‘Perfect Storm’

Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:59 pm

anshabhi wrote:
None of them is as big as the main engines blowing up, around the globe! I think Airbus has seen the worst already and if it doesn't face engine supply and operational issues, it's going to do pretty good in future.

Yes, that's why I like the author's title: while they have hit a perfect storm that has caused a lot of damage, eventually the storm passes and you recover.

The article says "Airbus generated many of its own problems" so part of the recovery is learning from those mistakes and capitalizing on that after you recover.
Last edited by Revelation on Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How Airbus Plans To Fly Out Of Its ‘Perfect Storm’

Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:00 pm

Design for manufacturing doesn't always translate into lighter. They will have to be very selective in that application, which will dilute the effectiveness of the effort.
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Newbiepilot
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Re: How Airbus Plans To Fly Out Of Its ‘Perfect Storm’

Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:14 pm

Great article. Good to have some insight on where the engineering work is being focused
 
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Re: How Airbus Plans To Fly Out Of Its ‘Perfect Storm’

Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:17 pm

This is all fake news. Airbus has had no issues with A320 ramp up- just look at the numbers versus Boeing. Just US media lying to stir up trouble.
 
Bambel
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Re: How Airbus Plans To Fly Out Of Its ‘Perfect Storm’

Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:33 pm

It's an old video so i guess todays A321 will be produced different, but it clearly shows that the A32x manufacturing system was designed with a lot of manual labour.

The video is produced by a german kids TV show so don't be surprised by some short cartoon segments featuring a mouse and an elephant. Commentary is german and quality poor but i've watched it a few times..

b.

Edit: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hQ-tw27NZKE
:-)
 
WIederling
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Re: How Airbus Plans To Fly Out Of Its ‘Perfect Storm’

Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:26 pm

Bambel wrote:
It's an old video so i guess todays A321 will be produced different, but it clearly shows that the A32x manufacturing system was designed with a lot of manual labour.

The video is produced by a german kids TV show so don't be surprised by some short cartoon segments featuring a mouse and an elephant. Commentary is german and quality poor but i've watched it a few times..

b.

Edit: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hQ-tw27NZKE
:-)

That was made in 1998. ( Look at the techies beard and sideburn style :-)
There is an eight part followup ( building an A321-200 for LH ) around from 1999.
One Users collection ( of many on you tube ):
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... _GAmQAU-Jq

Further episodes on building and refurbishing airplanes around created for "Sendung mit der Maus".
All rather detailed, in depth and complete.
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mjoelnir
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Re: How Airbus Plans To Fly Out Of Its ‘Perfect Storm’

Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:06 pm

Airbus delivered 71 A320 family aircraft in November after delivering 67 in October. There must be terrible production trouble in the Airbus FALs around the globe. :sarcastic: :silly:
 
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Re: How Airbus Plans To Fly Out Of Its ‘Perfect Storm’

Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:19 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
Airbus delivered 71 A320 family aircraft in November after delivering 67 in October. There must be terrible production trouble in the Airbus FALs around the globe. :sarcastic: :silly:


Since those numbers are higher than planned Airbus monthly production numbers, I suspect they included a bunch of the gliders that were taking up ramp space.
What the...?
 
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Re: How Airbus Plans To Fly Out Of Its ‘Perfect Storm’

Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:43 pm

JoeCanuck wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
Airbus delivered 71 A320 family aircraft in November after delivering 67 in October. There must be terrible production trouble in the Airbus FALs around the globe. :sarcastic: :silly:


Since those numbers are higher than planned Airbus monthly production numbers, I suspect they included a bunch of the gliders that were taking up ramp space.

No JoeCanuck, you need to learn. Gliders are not an indication of production issues Airbus would like to address. Even meeting monthly production numbers is not an an indication of production issues that Airbus would like to address. Meeting raw numbers= everything is perfect. You can clearly tell from the numbers that Airbus met their goal, and any extra are just gliders that finally got their engines. What do you mean there is a possibility that Airbus still fell behind their internal goal but the balance (and then some) was made up with gliders?

What’s that? Maybe Airbus is not meeting internal cost/profit goals in order to achieve those numbers, meaning Neo margins are not as high as expected when ordered was placed and pricing decided? May I remind you, JoeCanuck, that Airbus delivered more narrow bodies than Boeing. Boeing is the one with cost/profit issues too, because they delivered fewer. Why are you talking about Airbus? They delivered more narrow bodies than Boeing, you should be talking about Boeing.

What’s that? It is Airbus executives talking about production challenges? Remind me again, why are we talking about Airbus? They delivered more narrowbodies than Boeing. They have no production challenges.

There- I think I just condensed like 5+ future posts into one.
 
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Re: How Airbus Plans To Fly Out Of Its ‘Perfect Storm’

Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:10 pm

Polot wrote:
No JoeCanuck, you need to learn. Gliders are not an indication of production issues Airbus would like to address. Even meeting monthly production numbers is not an an indication of production issues that Airbus would like to address. Meeting raw numbers= everything is perfect. You can clearly tell from the numbers that Airbus met their goal, and any extra are just gliders that finally got their engines. What do you mean there is a possibility that Airbus still fell behind their internal goal but the balance (and then some) was made up with gliders?

What’s that? Maybe Airbus is not meeting internal cost/profit goals in order to achieve those numbers, meaning Neo margins are not as high as expected when ordered was placed and pricing decided? May I remind you, JoeCanuck, that Airbus delivered more narrow bodies than Boeing. Boeing is the one with cost/profit issues too, because they delivered fewer. Why are you talking about Airbus? They delivered more narrow bodies than Boeing, you should be talking about Boeing.

What’s that? It is Airbus executives talking about production challenges? Remind me again, why are we talking about Airbus? They delivered more narrowbodies than Boeing. They have no production challenges.

There- I think I just condensed like 5+ future posts into one.

Indeed, nothing to see here, move on now.

No reason to read what Airbus COO Tom Williams has to say, our friend from Iceland knows the real deal.

That bad Tommy can't resist talking smack about Airbus when being interviewed by aviation reporters.

Thank God he has friends here on a.net ready to jump right in and fix things up for him.
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mjoelnir
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Re: How Airbus Plans To Fly Out Of Its ‘Perfect Storm’

Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:40 pm

Revelation wrote:
Polot wrote:
No JoeCanuck, you need to learn. Gliders are not an indication of production issues Airbus would like to address. Even meeting monthly production numbers is not an an indication of production issues that Airbus would like to address. Meeting raw numbers= everything is perfect. You can clearly tell from the numbers that Airbus met their goal, and any extra are just gliders that finally got their engines. What do you mean there is a possibility that Airbus still fell behind their internal goal but the balance (and then some) was made up with gliders?

What’s that? Maybe Airbus is not meeting internal cost/profit goals in order to achieve those numbers, meaning Neo margins are not as high as expected when ordered was placed and pricing decided? May I remind you, JoeCanuck, that Airbus delivered more narrow bodies than Boeing. Boeing is the one with cost/profit issues too, because they delivered fewer. Why are you talking about Airbus? They delivered more narrow bodies than Boeing, you should be talking about Boeing.

What’s that? It is Airbus executives talking about production challenges? Remind me again, why are we talking about Airbus? They delivered more narrowbodies than Boeing. They have no production challenges.

There- I think I just condensed like 5+ future posts into one.

Indeed, nothing to see here, move on now.

No reason to read what Airbus COO Tom Williams has to say, our friend from Iceland knows the real deal.

That bad Tommy can't resist talking smack about Airbus when being interviewed by aviation reporters.

Thank God he has friends here on a.net ready to jump right in and fix things up for him.


Tom Williams is on the way out of Airbus,. I just brought some simple facts to the discussion and Revelation is peeved. Perfect storm, is that quoting Williams?
 
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Re: How Airbus Plans To Fly Out Of Its ‘Perfect Storm’

Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:46 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Polot wrote:
No JoeCanuck, you need to learn. Gliders are not an indication of production issues Airbus would like to address. Even meeting monthly production numbers is not an an indication of production issues that Airbus would like to address. Meeting raw numbers= everything is perfect. You can clearly tell from the numbers that Airbus met their goal, and any extra are just gliders that finally got their engines. What do you mean there is a possibility that Airbus still fell behind their internal goal but the balance (and then some) was made up with gliders?

What’s that? Maybe Airbus is not meeting internal cost/profit goals in order to achieve those numbers, meaning Neo margins are not as high as expected when ordered was placed and pricing decided? May I remind you, JoeCanuck, that Airbus delivered more narrow bodies than Boeing. Boeing is the one with cost/profit issues too, because they delivered fewer. Why are you talking about Airbus? They delivered more narrow bodies than Boeing, you should be talking about Boeing.

What’s that? It is Airbus executives talking about production challenges? Remind me again, why are we talking about Airbus? They delivered more narrowbodies than Boeing. They have no production challenges.

There- I think I just condensed like 5+ future posts into one.

Indeed, nothing to see here, move on now.

No reason to read what Airbus COO Tom Williams has to say, our friend from Iceland knows the real deal.

That bad Tommy can't resist talking smack about Airbus when being interviewed by aviation reporters.

Thank God he has friends here on a.net ready to jump right in and fix things up for him.


Tom Williams is on the way out of Airbus,. I just brought some simple facts to the discussion and Revelation is peeved. Perfect storm, is that quoting Williams?

I agree with you 100%. Tom Williams is on his way out of Airbus. Obviously that means he has no insight into Airbus and we can dismiss whatever he says 100%. I too would have sour grapes if I was in his position. My first post in this thread lays it out perfectly. It’s the 5th reply.
 
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Re: How Airbus Plans To Fly Out Of Its ‘Perfect Storm’

Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:59 pm

Polot wrote:
This is all fake news. Airbus has had no issues with A320 ramp up- just look at the numbers versus Boeing. Just US media lying to stir up trouble.


There really isn't any fake news. It's just called that when people read or hear isn't what they want. We have become a society of sheeple.
 
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Re: How Airbus Plans To Fly Out Of Its ‘Perfect Storm’

Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:10 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
I just brought some simple facts to the discussion

You brought nothing of relevance to the topic, unless you think hanging engines on gliders at a record pace is relevant.

The rest of us are probably more interested in discussing what Williams has to say about Airbus's challenges in the production space.

mjoelnir wrote:
Perfect storm, is that quoting Williams?

I'm not sure, but it is the title of the article.

There are plenty of direct quotes if you want them, such as:

“We were probably a bit overambitious” in applying automation to an existing aircraft that “was not designed with automation in mind,” Williams says.

----

EvanWSFO wrote:
It's just called that when people read or hear isn't what they want.

It's a form of denial, IMHO.
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Dupli
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Re: How Airbus Plans To Fly Out Of Its ‘Perfect Storm’

Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:55 pm

It reminds me of Tesla's automation problems. They eventually moved production to a tent because automation was not working as intended.
 
mjoelnir
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Re: How Airbus Plans To Fly Out Of Its ‘Perfect Storm’

Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:04 pm

Revelation wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
I just brought some simple facts to the discussion

You brought nothing of relevance to the topic, unless you think hanging engines on gliders at a record pace is relevant.

The rest of us are probably more interested in discussing what Williams has to say about Airbus's challenges in the production space.

mjoelnir wrote:
Perfect storm, is that quoting Williams?

I'm not sure, but it is the title of the article.

There are plenty of direct quotes if you want them, such as:

“We were probably a bit overambitious” in applying automation to an existing aircraft that “was not designed with automation in mind,” Williams says.

----

EvanWSFO wrote:
It's just called that when people read or hear isn't what they want.

It's a form of denial, IMHO.


I brought the delivery numbers. Airbus is making record deliveries, but they are in deep deep trouble in their narrow body production., of course. :sarcastic:

I believe that they did not hit their most optimistic numbers and especially the engine situation made things difficult and they had to put in extra effort into the ramp up. But having record deliveries and calling that the perfect storm, sounds a bit like sour grapes.

Airbus is most likely hitting around 625 A320 family deliveries this year, deep deep trouble indeed.
 
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Re: How Airbus Plans To Fly Out Of Its ‘Perfect Storm’

Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:09 pm

It will be interesting to see how the two production models play out. One is very centralized with everything pretty much being done in one place. The other is distributed.

You do wonder if there will be some automated processes that will make sense on a certain scale but not at a lower one needed by more distributed sites.

I would say Airbus is better situated to take some innovation risk at individual lines at individual sites while Boeing may be able to economically use automation processes that are too expensive for the smaller Airbus FALs.

It makes for an interesting study at the very least.
 
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Re: How Airbus Plans To Fly Out Of Its ‘Perfect Storm’

Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:18 pm

Some of these automation issues remind me of the situation with Tesla. According to Elon Musk, some things were just not that suited for automation. They had to hire more people to do things manually, which increased production output.
 
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Re: How Airbus Plans To Fly Out Of Its ‘Perfect Storm’

Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:32 pm

Polot wrote:
JoeCanuck wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
Airbus delivered 71 A320 family aircraft in November after delivering 67 in October. There must be terrible production trouble in the Airbus FALs around the globe. :sarcastic: :silly:


Since those numbers are higher than planned Airbus monthly production numbers, I suspect they included a bunch of the gliders that were taking up ramp space.

No JoeCanuck, you need to learn.


First off, that seems a bit condescending, which is unnecessary. The poster I was replying to stated a couple of monthly Airbus production numbers. My comment offered a suggestion as to why those particular numbers were higher than Airbus's intended monthly production numbers.

That's it.

As for needing to learn...I did learn something...just nothing relevant to the topic at hand.
What the...?
 
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Re: How Airbus Plans To Fly Out Of Its ‘Perfect Storm’

Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:45 pm

The paradox is of course that you will need more automation to increase the production rate, but that the more you already increase the rate the more difficult it is to implement the new automated production processes. A smart company learns from their mistakes, make the needed adjustments, to go on stronger. The snippets from the article show that Airbus is doing exactly this. It was also shown by the recent job ads looking for people that are going to specifically look at the production processes of the next generation of Airbus line-up. The production process will be the key factor in any decisions on future ramp ups and new product developments.

It's good to see that Airbus is working on it, it's the only to improve, which any company will always have to do to stay relevant.
 
mjoelnir
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Re: How Airbus Plans To Fly Out Of Its ‘Perfect Storm’

Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:46 pm

JoeCanuck wrote:
Polot wrote:
JoeCanuck wrote:

Since those numbers are higher than planned Airbus monthly production numbers, I suspect they included a bunch of the gliders that were taking up ramp space.

No JoeCanuck, you need to learn.


First off, that seems a bit condescending, which is unnecessary. The poster I was replying to stated a couple of monthly Airbus production numbers. My comment offered a suggestion as to why those particular numbers were higher than Airbus's intended monthly production numbers.

That's it.

As for needing to learn...I did learn something...just nothing relevant to the topic at hand.


Airbus started the year at about monthly production rate 48. They expected to be and should be at rate 52 at the end of this year and around rate 56 by the middle of next year.

If the deliveries should reach 624 frames delivered by the end of the year, the delivery rate, 52 on average during the year, is above the average production rate for the year. That would mean fewer gliders on stock in the end of this year compared to last year.
 
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Re: How Airbus Plans To Fly Out Of Its ‘Perfect Storm’

Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:53 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
Airbus is making record deliveries, but they are in deep deep trouble in their narrow body production., of course.

So, you've read the article, and/or my summation of it, and that is what you've taken away?

If so, that's a shame, because you're missing out on a lot of interesting information about how things work in a modern aerospace production line.
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Re: How Airbus Plans To Fly Out Of Its ‘Perfect Storm’

Fri Dec 07, 2018 10:05 pm

bigjku wrote:
I would say Airbus is better situated to take some innovation risk at individual lines at individual sites while Boeing may be able to economically use automation processes that are too expensive for the smaller Airbus FALs.

The article says Airbus had no choice to go to a MTP system because XFW #4 only had 2/3rds the space to work with as the traditional Airbus A320 FAL setup.

Another earlier article said that XFW 4 has a big wall right down the middle of it with a giant door, which also limited the opportunity to use the traditional approaches.

Boeing is using a LRIP (low rate initial production) approach to the 777X program using the former 787 'surge line' space.

It is also using a MTP approach because it will eventually merge the 777X and 777 FALs and will still want to produce both models for a while, yet the products are different sizes and different shapes.

I can just imagine what people at Boeing who've read Williams's comments about how getting the desired precision out of MTP being more difficult than anticipated are thinking...
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Re: How Airbus Plans To Fly Out Of Its ‘Perfect Storm’

Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:13 pm

I recall a thread in the last year or so that indicated that NONE of the A320 family FALS contain the same level of automation and the plane itself was, as the article notes, was not not designed with "design for manufacture" as a critical element. there have been a hodge-podge of production initiatives to implement improved production but it was found that to modify the plane for manufacturability for one one FAL created problems at the other FALs that were not at then same level of automation.. That coupled with some of the sites not even having a building plan much better than early industrial revolution plans.

mjoelnir: I find it odd that with your intense schooling into manufacturing business theory that you fail to realize that factory production through put does not necessarily equal delivery rate.
 
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Re: How Airbus Plans To Fly Out Of Its ‘Perfect Storm’

Sat Dec 08, 2018 2:17 am

kanban wrote:
I recall a thread in the last year or so that indicated that NONE of the A320 family FALS contain the same level of automation and the plane itself was, as the article notes, was not not designed with "design for manufacture" as a critical element. there have been a hodge-podge of production initiatives to implement improved production but it was found that to modify the plane for manufacturability for one one FAL created problems at the other FALs that were not at then same level of automation.. That coupled with some of the sites not even having a building plan much better than early industrial revolution plans.

mjoelnir: I find it odd that with your intense schooling into manufacturing business theory that you fail to realize that factory production through put does not necessarily equal delivery rate.


Let us now see, how in the world do you manage record deliveries without record factory through put? You can deduct the 30 undelivered frames at year end of 2017 from 2018 deliveries and still get record factory through put.
It is laughable to find the Boeing fan boys here to try to find fault with both record production and record deliveries for the A320 family. Delivery numbers and production numbers do tell a different story.
What ever the difficulties introducing the automation to the A320 family production, the fourth line in XFW has lower staffing numbers than the other lines. If Tom Williams did assume that building a new line, including levels of automation not seen in the industry before, would be accomplished without startup troubles, he must have a limited grasp of technical realities..
 
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Re: How Airbus Plans To Fly Out Of Its ‘Perfect Storm’

Sat Dec 08, 2018 2:43 am

mjoelnir wrote:
It is laughable to find the Boeing fan boys here to try to find fault with both record production and record deliveries for the A320 family.

What a strawman argument. You're making up a different argument just so you can claim a win.

The thread is about the very real issues Airbus had with production this year, so the one finding fault is Airbus's Chief Operations Officer himself!

In essence you're saying Airbus's COO is a Boeing fan because he shares a lot of interesting yet not always flattering info about the things he and the company have gone through, instead of pounding his chest about about production rate.

You perceive any discussion of the real issues Airbus has had as a slight, so as Chief Defender of the Faith you have to go off topic and play the "who's bigger" game.

This thread is not about production rate, it's about the issues Airbus has encountered as it has tried to ramp up production rate, while dealing with engine shortages, while adding new baseline configurations ( cabin flex ) and adding lots of new "head of line" operator configurations, and adding lots of additional ( said to be too much ) automation, and trying a new FAL arrangement.

If you'd put down the micrometer, maybe you would learn something.
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Re: How Airbus Plans To Fly Out Of Its ‘Perfect Storm’

Sat Dec 08, 2018 2:51 am

Revelation wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
It is laughable to find the Boeing fan boys here to try to find fault with both record production and record deliveries for the A320 family.

What a strawman argument. You're making up a different argument just so you can claim a win.

The thread is about the very real issues Airbus had with production this year, so the one finding fault is Airbus's Chief Operations Officer himself.

You perceive any discussion of the real issues Airbus has had as a slight, so as Chief Defender of the Faith you have to go off topic and play the "who's bigger" game.

This thread is not about production rate, it's about the issues Airbus has encountered as it has tried to ramp up production rate, while dealing with engine shortages, while adding new baseline configurations ( cabin flex ) and adding lots of new "head of line" operator configurations, and adding lots of additional ( said to be too much ) automation, and trying a new FAL arrangement.

If you'd put down the micrometer, maybe you would learn something.


Delivery numbers and production numbers show that Airbus seems to have quite successfully overcome the problems. You do not seem to accept numbers, when they do not agree with your preconceived notions. I can only tell you once again, record production and record deliveries beat out any sob stories of insurmountably problems at Airbus.
Tom Williams is a finance expert and I assume somehow frustrated, providing a parting shot.
 
TheOldDude
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Re: How Airbus Plans To Fly Out Of Its ‘Perfect Storm’

Sat Dec 08, 2018 3:02 am

I, for one, wish that we could have honest discussions of aviation topics without a few trying to shut down every conversation defending A or B. Aviation, particularly the changes in manufacturing and design that are taking place, is not solely and completely production numbers.
 
smartplane
Posts: 284
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Re: How Airbus Plans To Fly Out Of Its ‘Perfect Storm’

Sat Dec 08, 2018 3:03 am

kanban wrote:
I recall a thread in the last year or so that indicated that NONE of the A320 family FALS contain the same level of automation and the plane itself was, as the article notes, was not not designed with "design for manufacture" as a critical element. there have been a hodge-podge of production initiatives to implement improved production but it was found that to modify the plane for manufacturability for one one FAL created problems at the other FALs that were not at then same level of automation.

Certain inevitability automation intensity will vary from FAL to FAL, as this will reflect when each was created.

Would you expect a FAL set-up in 2018 to use the same technology and processes as another set up in 2010, or even 2015? Or do what many banks and insurance companies still do in the name of standardisation, which is stick to an ancient MS Windows operating system, and pay MS to provide bespoke support.

Having distributed FAL's, using varying technology and processes, is part of best practice corporate learning, providing each is well documented and understood. Take the best from each, then standardise. Airbus is reaching this point.
 
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Revelation
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Re: How Airbus Plans To Fly Out Of Its ‘Perfect Storm’

Sat Dec 08, 2018 3:09 am

mjoelnir wrote:
Delivery numbers and production numbers show that Airbus seems to have quite successfully overcome the problems.

Yes, and if you have been reading along, no one is arguing that. Read the article. Read #3 above.

Yet it's interesting to read HOW one goes about overcoming problems. That's the point of the thread. You can't seem to grasp it. You perceive a slight on Mother Airbus, and you go in to "defend at all costs" mode.

mjoelnir wrote:
I can only tell you once again, record production and record deliveries beat out any sob stories of insurmountably problems at Airbus.

That's another nonsense that you are making up all on your own.

mjoelnir wrote:
Tom Williams is a finance expert and I assume somehow frustrated, providing a parting shot.

You know nothing about that.

You see that he isn't Defending the Airbus Faith, so you feel a need to attack him as "having a limited grasp of technical realities".

Yet we read:

In 2016 Tom received the Mensforth Manufacturing Gold Medal from the Institute of Engineering and Technology (IET) for his achievements as a world-class production engineer, and was awarded an Honorary Degree of Doctor of Business Administration by the University of the West of England in recognition of his contribution to operations, manufacturing and business.

Tom received the SAE International lifetime achievement in October 2016.

Tom has been a Fellow of the Royal Aeronautical Society since May 2004.Tom received the SAE International lifetime achievement in October 2016.

Just a bitter old finance guy with a limited grasp of technical realities, eh?

Ref: https://www.airbus.com/company/corporat ... liams.html
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Re: How Airbus Plans To Fly Out Of Its ‘Perfect Storm’

Sat Dec 08, 2018 3:33 am

mjoelnir wrote:
Tom Williams is a finance expert and I assume somehow frustrated, providing a parting shot.

Do you recognize how absurd you sound dismissing statements coming from Airbus’s Chief Operations Officer? You realize Tom Williams is retiring per standard company policy (he is 65 years old!) and Airbus actually asked him to stay longer until things with the A320Neo production improved? No matter how anyone feels about Airbus or Boeing, I think pretty much everyone here would agree that Tom Williams knows far more about the inner workings of Airbus and their operations, including their production processes, than anyone here.

If you truly know better than I’m sure Av Weekly would love to hear from you and publish your side of the story. Hell I would also send your resume to Airbus, they would love to have you as part of their executive team.
 
WIederling
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Re: How Airbus Plans To Fly Out Of Its ‘Perfect Storm’

Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:21 am

EvanWSFO wrote:
Polot wrote:
This is all fake news. Airbus has had no issues with A320 ramp up- just look at the numbers versus Boeing. Just US media lying to stir up trouble.


There really isn't any fake news. It's just called that when people read or hear isn't what they want. We have become a society of sheeple.


For some select posters rain in XFW invariably indicates that the skies are falling.
The production site will be washed into the river, reclaimed by the sea and a horde of greens will
dance in the mud remaining. .-)
Strangely:
The same amount of precipitation represents a super sunny day in Seattle. break out sun protect.
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VV
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Re: How Airbus Plans To Fly Out Of Its ‘Perfect Storm’

Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:33 am

Does it mean the deferred production cost increases?

.
 
RalXWB
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Re: How Airbus Plans To Fly Out Of Its ‘Perfect Storm’

Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:18 am

Team B is throwing so much shade...again. What people fail to realize is that Airbus overcame or will overcome the adressed challenges and is not doomed like certain posters here repeat constantly...#somuchcatchingup
 
drmlnr1
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Re: How Airbus Plans To Fly Out Of Its ‘Perfect Storm’

Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:27 am

Wasn’t initial production of the 787 LRIP because of the fastener issues and the fact it is mostly carbon fiber? I bet some of the higher ups in Boeing are going to read this article and Boeing may do one of a few potential things: crap their pants, bring in experts in MTP’s (my guess), or maybe just take a hard look and just switch it to automation. This was actually a very good read to see the different processes used by A and B. Let’s hope one of them figures out MTP. Do you think Boeing will use MTP’s on the MOM project or will it be automation?



Revelation wrote:
bigjku wrote:
I would say Airbus is better situated to take some innovation risk at individual lines at individual sites while Boeing may be able to economically use automation processes that are too expensive for the smaller Airbus FALs.

The article says Airbus had no choice to go to a MTP system because XFW #4 only had 2/3rds the space to work with as the traditional Airbus A320 FAL setup.

Another earlier article said that XFW 4 has a big wall right down the middle of it with a giant door, which also limited the opportunity to use the traditional approaches.

Boeing is using a LRIP (low rate initial production) approach to the 777X program using the former 787 'surge line' space.

It is also using a MTP approach because it will eventually merge the 777X and 777 FALs and will still want to produce both models for a while, yet the products are different sizes and different shapes.

I can just imagine what people at Boeing who've read Williams's comments about how getting the desired precision out of MTP being more difficult than anticipated are thinking...
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BREECH
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Re: How Airbus Plans To Fly Out Of Its ‘Perfect Storm’

Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:38 am

Revelation wrote:
It correlates with what we were told earlier, that resources were being moved away from A321+/++ and towards "design for manufacturing".

Trying to find proofs of illusions may be very disappointing. "We" were told nothing. YOU just read one ridiculously sourced tabloid article and now trying to justify it.
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seahawk
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Re: How Airbus Plans To Fly Out Of Its ‘Perfect Storm’

Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:27 am

The main point is that you need to design for production to make the next step and that is what Boeing plans to do with the 797. So more storms to come for Airbus.
 
JayinKitsap
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Re: How Airbus Plans To Fly Out Of Its ‘Perfect Storm’

Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:40 am

Boeing did a lot to get the 787 designed for ease of production, but it took a lot of years to get the kinks out of it. One thing they did was minimize the number of options available - pick model 8,9, or 10, pick RR or GE, paint scheme and what seats is pretty close to the choices. Forty years ago you could order a whole assortment of options for your Oldsmobile, now you have a very small list of factory options available for your new Toyota. The less variation improves production efficiency. Again back to the 787, the 9 and 10 have 80+% commonality, helps a lot with production efficiency.

Speeding up a line causes new critical paths to keep popping up, new stations need to be added to split a task or to pre assemble parts, new tooling is needed to reduce a task time by say 10%. Going from 50 to 55 per month requires all steps to be 10% faster, but this is possibly the 6th 10% production bump. It is painful on a single line, it is all the more painful when a firm has multiple lines in production with varying legacy elements in each line. An improvement in one then needs to be introduced to all others, or the product starts to vary by line. The goal of mass production is a part made today is exactly the same as one made 10 years before so it installs with ease.

Yes Airbus is OK, is producing at a record pace, but what Williams is describing is that battle to get the lines running smoothly at that record pace. Increases that are smooth gain efficiency, the glitches can rob that gain enough that costs go out of control.
 
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PW100
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Re: How Airbus Plans To Fly Out Of Its ‘Perfect Storm’

Sat Dec 08, 2018 1:07 pm

Polot wrote:
JoeCanuck wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
Airbus delivered 71 A320 family aircraft in November after delivering 67 in October. There must be terrible production trouble in the Airbus FALs around the globe. :sarcastic: :silly:


Since those numbers are higher than planned Airbus monthly production numbers, I suspect they included a bunch of the gliders that were taking up ramp space.

No JoeCanuck, you need to learn. Gliders are not an indication of production issues Airbus would like to address. Even meeting monthly production numbers is not an an indication of production issues that Airbus would like to address. Meeting raw numbers= everything is perfect. You can clearly tell from the numbers that Airbus met their goal, and any extra are just gliders that finally got their engines. What do you mean there is a possibility that Airbus still fell behind their internal goal but the balance (and then some) was made up with gliders?

What’s that? Maybe Airbus is not meeting internal cost/profit goals in order to achieve those numbers, meaning Neo margins are not as high as expected when ordered was placed and pricing decided? May I remind you, JoeCanuck, that Airbus delivered more narrow bodies than Boeing. Boeing is the one with cost/profit issues too, because they delivered fewer. Why are you talking about Airbus? They delivered more narrow bodies than Boeing, you should be talking about Boeing.

What’s that? It is Airbus executives talking about production challenges? Remind me again, why are we talking about Airbus? They delivered more narrowbodies than Boeing. They have no production challenges.

There- I think I just condensed like 5+ future posts into one.


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Re: How Airbus Plans To Fly Out Of Its ‘Perfect Storm’

Sat Dec 08, 2018 2:03 pm

Apparently Airbus has/ had issues ramping up / automating A320 series production.

Apparently Airbus is delivering more A320 series than ever before.

Apparently many fellow posters have problems accepting both.
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Planeflyer
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Re: How Airbus Plans To Fly Out Of Its ‘Perfect Storm’

Sat Dec 08, 2018 2:06 pm

Good article.

I took the following from it.

AB is trying to generate higher returns from the amazing backlog that continues to grow on the 32xx program.

They have had more teething problems than expected transitioning to higher levels of automation.

The engine and higher levels of customization on the newer models have greatly exacerbated smooth operations.

In a year or two it would not surprise me if we talk about the 321 not only as we do now, the leader in its segment but like we the 787 , a profit and cash flow machine.

I also find it interesting that both AB and B are moving to digital designs.

Good moves given the amount of money being spent in China!
 
Dantepel
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Re: How Airbus Plans To Fly Out Of Its ‘Perfect Storm’

Sat Dec 08, 2018 2:44 pm

So a couple of questions, I’m not leading anything here just asking questions:

1) Is the record NB delivery rate more a function of brute force? IE how many assembly lines are churning out airplanes vs efficiency?
2) Sometimes automation leads to work force reductions. Is Airbus truly free to implement automation?

If you read this as A vs B please don’t reply.
 
VV
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Re: How Airbus Plans To Fly Out Of Its ‘Perfect Storm’

Sat Dec 08, 2018 3:00 pm

The original post is about an article published by Aviation Week. It seems the article says something about issues in the production. Obviously, the author of the article knows something.

It is clear Airbus is producing more aircraft than ever. However the current output seems to be below what was initially planned earlier this year.

Airbus stayed a delivery target of "more than 800" in 2018. I am far from my computer, but I was told Airbus recently published it's orders and delivery spreadsheet until end of November 2018.

It would be nice if someone could post the total deliveries until end of November.

There is no reason to believe Airbus has changed its target. So, until proven otherwise Airbus Will deliver at least 800 aircraft this year.
 
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Re: How Airbus Plans To Fly Out Of Its ‘Perfect Storm’

Sat Dec 08, 2018 3:01 pm

JayinKitsap wrote:
Boeing did a lot to get the 787 designed for ease of production, but it took a lot of years to get the kinks out of it. One thing they did was minimize the number of options available - pick model 8,9, or 10, pick RR or GE, paint scheme and what seats is pretty close to the choices.
<snip>

Speeding up a line causes new critical paths to keep popping up, new stations need to be added to split a task or to pre assemble parts, new tooling is needed to reduce a task time by say 10%. Going from 50 to 55 per month requires all steps to be 10% faster, but this is possibly the 6th 10% production bump. It is painful on a single line, it is all the more painful when a firm has multiple lines in production with varying legacy elements in each line. An improvement in one then needs to be introduced to all others, or the product starts to vary by line. The goal of mass production is a part made today is exactly the same as one made 10 years before so it installs with ease.

Yes Airbus is OK, is producing at a record pace, but what Williams is describing is that battle to get the lines running smoothly at that record pace. Increases that are smooth gain efficiency, the glitches can rob that gain enough that costs go out of control.


Nice summary (I snipped out a little to get to the main theme, it takes time to get production right). Once Airbus has *one* A321 configuration, production will smooth out and thus speed up. Then Airbus has the tough issue of transferring that automation to Mobile, Toulouse, and Tianjin.

I'm 100% certain components of the A321 will have to be redesigned for the automation. That is just the nature of the industry. It is a learning curve and if there every is more than 6 years that pass by between the last model, the learning curve has to be re-learned. :cry: Why six years? It is the half life of engineering know how (my opinion, but standard hiring practice). For example, I'm working my favorite type of program, but there just haven't been any of these programs in the Western world for a decade. But I bring in experience (as do others) that is invaluable. Management is going "you should have known" and they didn't like the "you should have funded R&D to keep our skills fresh." Once just cannot retain a skill set too long without practice. This includes design for manufacturing which requires a continuous set of new product. This is one reason the auto industry is better than aerospace and consumer electronics is better still.

Sorry, I digress, but Airbus, Boeing, and everyone else in aerospace is being shocked to find out we compete with consumer electronics for machinery and talent now that everything is going so software driven and it is starting to create a mindset shift. My management is being unusually slow to adapt (not enough people with higher degrees who can understand a paradigm shift), so let us see where I end up. ;)

seahawk wrote:
The main point is that you need to design for production to make the next step and that is what Boeing plans to do with the 797. So more storms to come for Airbus.

Design for production is actually re-design for production, best done before first metal is cut. I'm being a cynical old engineer here, but I do not think Boeing is giving their team the time needed to do this right.

Lightsaber
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Re: How Airbus Plans To Fly Out Of Its ‘Perfect Storm’

Sat Dec 08, 2018 3:21 pm

drmlnr1 wrote:
Wasn’t initial production of the 787 LRIP because of the fastener issues and the fact it is mostly carbon fiber? I bet some of the higher ups in Boeing are going to read this article and Boeing may do one of a few potential things: crap their pants, bring in experts in MTP’s (my guess), or maybe just take a hard look and just switch it to automation. This was actually a very good read to see the different processes used by A and B. Let’s hope one of them figures out MTP. Do you think Boeing will use MTP’s on the MOM project or will it be automation?

I think this frank article quoting Airbus's COO will be helpful for future engineering teams, just like the information we got from Telsa's struggle with automation, and Boeing's lessons learned from excessive outsourcing while undergoing radical production line redesign and massive technological shifts during the 787 program.

In short, a lot of managers seem to think once they've written the check for the robots, everything just works like magic. This kind of article helps show them their mistake in thinking this way.

JayinKitsap wrote:
Boeing did a lot to get the 787 designed for ease of production, but it took a lot of years to get the kinks out of it. One thing they did was minimize the number of options available - pick model 8,9, or 10, pick RR or GE, paint scheme and what seats is pretty close to the choices. Forty years ago you could order a whole assortment of options for your Oldsmobile, now you have a very small list of factory options available for your new Toyota. The less variation improves production efficiency. Again back to the 787, the 9 and 10 have 80+% commonality, helps a lot with production efficiency.

Speeding up a line causes new critical paths to keep popping up, new stations need to be added to split a task or to pre assemble parts, new tooling is needed to reduce a task time by say 10%. Going from 50 to 55 per month requires all steps to be 10% faster, but this is possibly the 6th 10% production bump. It is painful on a single line, it is all the more painful when a firm has multiple lines in production with varying legacy elements in each line. An improvement in one then needs to be introduced to all others, or the product starts to vary by line. The goal of mass production is a part made today is exactly the same as one made 10 years before so it installs with ease.

Yes Airbus is OK, is producing at a record pace, but what Williams is describing is that battle to get the lines running smoothly at that record pace. Increases that are smooth gain efficiency, the glitches can rob that gain enough that costs go out of control.

Thanks for the insights on product simplification, how critical paths shift as rates increase, how maintaining multiple FALs to a single standard is challenging, and how high production rates often come with initial high up front costs.

Planeflyer wrote:
Good article.

I took the following from it.

AB is trying to generate higher returns from the amazing backlog that continues to grow on the 32xx program.

They have had more teething problems than expected transitioning to higher levels of automation.

The engine and higher levels of customization on the newer models have greatly exacerbated smooth operations.

In a year or two it would not surprise me if we talk about the 321 not only as we do now, the leader in its segment but like we the 787 , a profit and cash flow machine.

I also find it interesting that both AB and B are moving to digital designs.

Good moves given the amount of money being spent in China!

Nice summary! Thanks for taking the time to read the article and take in all of what it was saying.

Once the storm passes, things will go a lot smoother. Getting to cash cow status is exactly why they've put some things on the shelf and have shifted more resources towards production.

BREECH wrote:
Revelation wrote:
It correlates with what we were told earlier, that resources were being moved away from A321+/++ and towards "design for manufacturing".

Trying to find proofs of illusions may be very disappointing. "We" were told nothing. YOU just read one ridiculously sourced tabloid article and now trying to justify it.

In your lust to Defend the Faith, you're calling media outlets AvWeek and Reuters "tabloids" and ignoring direct quotes from Airbus's CCO.

Ref: http://aviationweek.com/commercial-avia ... pgrade-now
Ref: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-airb ... SKBN1HH1SS

keesje wrote:
Apparently Airbus has/ had issues ramping up / automating A320 series production.

Apparently Airbus is delivering more A320 series than ever before.

Apparently many fellow posters have problems accepting both.

Apparently many fellow posters have problems accepting that dealing with a production "perfect storm" takes resources away from other more interesting things.

This is the world we live in.

WIederling wrote:
For some select posters rain in XFW invariably indicates that the skies are falling.
The production site will be washed into the river, reclaimed by the sea and a horde of greens will
dance in the mud remaining. .-)
Strangely:
The same amount of precipitation represents a super sunny day in Seattle. break out sun protect.

If that's all you're taking away from this article, you're not reading it clearly.

If you can't read much at one sitting, try reading #43 above, it's a good summary.

If you have informative and well written articles about rain in Seattle, feel free to start a thread.

It'd be better for all of us if you just did that instead of making silly exaggerations.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has it's beaches, it's homeland and thoughts of it's own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has it's seasons, it's evenings and songs of it's own
 
Newbiepilot
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Re: How Airbus Plans To Fly Out Of Its ‘Perfect Storm’

Sat Dec 08, 2018 3:36 pm

Please stop throwing shade so we can have a real discussion

kanban wrote:
I recall a thread in the last year or so that indicated that NONE of the A320 family FALS contain the same level of automation and the plane itself was, as the article notes, was not not designed with "design for manufacture" as a critical element. there have been a hodge-podge of production initiatives to implement improved production but it was found that to modify the plane for manufacturability for one one FAL created problems at the other FALs that were not at then same level of automation.. That coupled with some of the sites not even having a building plan much better than early industrial revolution plans.


I find your comment very interesting. This would be a predicament that is very hard to solve. Airplane parts can be redesigned around manufacturing. Design for manufacturability is very important. However having different levels of automation at different Final Assembly sights is going to create an integration challenge.

I remember hearing about Boeing redesigning a number of hydraulic tubes in the wheel well of the 737 when they switched to the moving line 15 years ago. Anyone who has been in the wheel well knows that it is a jigsaw puzzle of hydraulic tubes, wiring, pumps, etc in there. They moved some things around to make the tubes and fittings assemble better and swapped from B Nuts to axially swaged fittings. For the airline it was barely noticeable, but apparently it saved hundreds of hours with how they did the installation work.

Doing something like that where all the production lines are the same would be far easier than if all the production lines were different. If Airbus aren’t using the same tooling and processes, Making a small design change to speed up production wouldn’t be as easy. I see why they need significant engineering resources to work on production.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: How Airbus Plans To Fly Out Of Its ‘Perfect Storm’

Sat Dec 08, 2018 3:55 pm

When Airbus announced newer production technology for the 320 my mind went back to the late 90s when Boeing announced the same for the 737. It was, as Musk would say, hell weeks ahead. But Boeing succeeded, as Airbus will (but the profits will disappear at first - actually it is a sort of R and D).
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drmlnr1
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Re: How Airbus Plans To Fly Out Of Its ‘Perfect Storm’

Sat Dec 08, 2018 4:25 pm

Revelation wrote:
drmlnr1 wrote:
Wasn’t initial production of the 787 LRIP because of the fastener issues and the fact it is mostly carbon fiber? I bet some of the higher ups in Boeing are going to read this article and Boeing may do one of a few potential things: crap their pants, bring in experts in MTP’s (my guess), or maybe just take a hard look and just switch it to automation. This was actually a very good read to see the different processes used by A and B. Let’s hope one of them figures out MTP. Do you think Boeing will use MTP’s on the MOM project or will it be automation?

I think this frank article quoting Airbus's COO will be helpful for future engineering teams, just like the information we got from Telsa's struggle with automation, and Boeing's lessons learned from excessive outsourcing while undergoing radical production line redesign and massive technological shifts during the 787 program.

In short, a lot of managers seem to think once they've written the check for the robots, everything just works like magic. This kind of article helps show them their mistake in thinking this way.

JayinKitsap wrote:
Boeing did a lot to get the 787 designed for ease of production, but it took a lot of years to get the kinks out of it. One thing they did was minimize the number of options available - pick model 8,9, or 10, pick RR or GE, paint scheme and what seats is pretty close to the choices. Forty years ago you could order a whole assortment of options for your Oldsmobile, now you have a very small list of factory options available for your new Toyota. The less variation improves production efficiency. Again back to the 787, the 9 and 10 have 80+% commonality, helps a lot with production efficiency.

Speeding up a line causes new critical paths to keep popping up, new stations need to be added to split a task or to pre assemble parts, new tooling is needed to reduce a task time by say 10%. Going from 50 to 55 per month requires all steps to be 10% faster, but this is possibly the 6th 10% production bump. It is painful on a single line, it is all the more painful when a firm has multiple lines in production with varying legacy elements in each line. An improvement in one then needs to be introduced to all others, or the product starts to vary by line. The goal of mass production is a part made today is exactly the same as one made 10 years before so it installs with ease.

Yes Airbus is OK, is producing at a record pace, but what Williams is describing is that battle to get the lines running smoothly at that record pace. Increases that are smooth gain efficiency, the glitches can rob that gain enough that costs go out of control.

Thanks for the insights on product simplification, how critical paths shift as rates increase, how maintaining multiple FALs to a single standard is challenging, and how high production rates often come with initial high up front costs.

Planeflyer wrote:
Good article.

I took the following from it.

AB is trying to generate higher returns from the amazing backlog that continues to grow on the 32xx program.

They have had more teething problems than expected transitioning to higher levels of automation.

The engine and higher levels of customization on the newer models have greatly exacerbated smooth operations.

In a year or two it would not surprise me if we talk about the 321 not only as we do now, the leader in its segment but like we the 787 , a profit and cash flow machine.

I also find it interesting that both AB and B are moving to digital designs.

Good moves given the amount of money being spent in China!

Nice summary! Thanks for taking the time to read the article and take in all of what it was saying.

Once the storm passes, things will go a lot smoother. Getting to cash cow status is exactly why they've put some things on the shelf and have shifted more resources towards production.

BREECH wrote:
Revelation wrote:
It correlates with what we were told earlier, that resources were being moved away from A321+/++ and towards "design for manufacturing".

Trying to find proofs of illusions may be very disappointing. "We" were told nothing. YOU just read one ridiculously sourced tabloid article and now trying to justify it.

In your lust to Defend the Faith, you're calling media outlets AvWeek and Reuters "tabloids" and ignoring direct quotes from Airbus's CCO.

Ref: http://aviationweek.com/commercial-avia ... pgrade-now
Ref: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-airb ... SKBN1HH1SS

keesje wrote:
Apparently Airbus has/ had issues ramping up / automating A320 series production.

Apparently Airbus is delivering more A320 series than ever before.

Apparently many fellow posters have problems accepting both.

Apparently many fellow posters have problems accepting that dealing with a production "perfect storm" takes resources away from other more interesting things.

This is the world we live in.

WIederling wrote:
For some select posters rain in XFW invariably indicates that the skies are falling.
The production site will be washed into the river, reclaimed by the sea and a horde of greens will
dance in the mud remaining. .-)
Strangely:
The same amount of precipitation represents a super sunny day in Seattle. break out sun protect.

If that's all you're taking away from this article, you're not reading it clearly.

If you can't read much at one sitting, try reading #43 above, it's a good summary.

If you have informative and well written articles about rain in Seattle, feel free to start a thread.

It'd be better for all of us if you just did that instead of making silly exaggerations.


Just goes to show groupthink especially when dealing with high dollar assets that the cheapest way may not always be the best way.
Flying is relaxing!

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