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1337Delta764
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Why doesn't PHX use flat baggage carousels?

Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:58 pm

With PHX being a popular snowbird and retiree destination, I am very surprised that PHX does not use flat baggage carousels. I think they used to have them in T2 and T3, but they have been replaced by the sloped type. Most Florida airports use flat carousels for this very reason, since they are easier for older people to use. I know arguments for sloped carousels are child safety as well as airport security, but there has to be a balance between convenience and safety/security.
 
cle757
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Re: Why doesn't PHX use flat baggage carousels?

Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:46 pm

We have the same type in the bagroom where your bag comes after you check it in at the counter. I can tell you after lifting 300bags off that type of carousel your back will be hurting.
Cleveland the best location in the Nation
 
robsaw
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Re: Why doesn't PHX use flat baggage carousels?

Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:50 pm

I don't know that there is any validation that airports select the baggage carousel type based upon "easier for older people to use" but rather based upon how they integrate with the overall luggage handling system and feed points to the carousel.
 
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fraspotter
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Re: Why doesn't PHX use flat baggage carousels?

Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:01 pm

It also might come down to money. If an airport with flat belts could have gotten the angled belts for cheaper than they very well might have gone that way instead and vice versa.
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1337Delta764
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Re: Why doesn't PHX use flat baggage carousels?

Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:09 pm

robsaw wrote:
I don't know that there is any validation that airports select the baggage carousel type based upon "easier for older people to use" but rather based upon how they integrate with the overall luggage handling system and feed points to the carousel.


I do know that in Europe, flat carousels dominate. Sloped carousels are chiefly a United States thing. And I do know for a fact that TPA chose to stick with flat carousels for its renovation claiming that it was easier for older people to use, and I presume that many other Florida airports use them for the same reason.
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: Why doesn't PHX use flat baggage carousels?

Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:33 pm

Flat carousels are more difficult for rampers to deal with because you’re looking for a flat, open area to send the bags out (since not-yet-claimed ones keep coming around to the bag well) whereas the sloped carousels never have the bags return to the bag well.
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mtnwest1979
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Re: Why doesn't PHX use flat baggage carousels?

Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:34 pm

Off the top of my head, it seems flat belts are used at airports only where belts come directly from outside and bags go in/out and so on until claimed. TPA MEM SAT MAF SRQ Seems if it were designed with a belt coming from further or from above/below, bags would just come down onto flat belt and off to the ground.
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cle757
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Re: Why doesn't PHX use flat baggage carousels?

Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:48 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
Flat carousels are more difficult for rampers to deal with because you’re looking for a flat, open area to send the bags out (since not-yet-claimed ones keep coming around to the bag well) whereas the sloped carousels never have the bags return to the bag well.


Sloped carousels in the bagroom suck for rampers
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EA CO AS
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Re: Why doesn't PHX use flat baggage carousels?

Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:00 pm

cle757 wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
Flat carousels are more difficult for rampers to deal with because you’re looking for a flat, open area to send the bags out (since not-yet-claimed ones keep coming around to the bag well) whereas the sloped carousels never have the bags return to the bag well.


Sloped carousels in the bagroom suck for rampers


Can you tell me why you think so? Every ramper I've ever spoken with who has worked on both types prefers the sloped ones to the flat conveyor type.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
JHwk
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Re: Why doesn't PHX use flat baggage carousels?

Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:12 pm

I thought I had seen flat carousels with an indirect feed from the bagroom before-- it was more automation heavy (read $$?), but it worked pretty well. Can't for the life of me figure out where it was though.

I'm actually surprised there hasn't been more innovation in bag claims though. It would seem like a post-loading sort and dispatch on demand type of system would drastically reduce space requirements and passenger frustration-- scan your claim or boarding pass and get notified when (and where) your specific bags are.
 
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exFWAOONW
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Re: Why doesn't PHX use flat baggage carousels?

Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:14 pm

The type of carousel in baggage claim depends upon which sales rep took the architect to a strip club. :duck:
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Cubsrule
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Re: Why doesn't PHX use flat baggage carousels?

Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:33 pm

JHwk wrote:
I thought I had seen flat carousels with an indirect feed from the bagroom before-- it was more automation heavy (read $$?), but it worked pretty well. Can't for the life of me figure out where it was though.


BNA has them in baggage claim. I don't know who manufactured the system, but it also senses the position of bags on the belt and only dispatches a belt onto the carousel if there is space for it.
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UpNAWAy
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Re: Why doesn't PHX use flat baggage carousels?

Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:49 pm

I have only seen flat used on ground level baggage claims. I think that is the difference. Ground vs Elevated.
 
Dominion301
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Re: Why doesn't PHX use flat baggage carousels?

Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:59 pm

1337Delta764 wrote:
robsaw wrote:
I don't know that there is any validation that airports select the baggage carousel type based upon "easier for older people to use" but rather based upon how they integrate with the overall luggage handling system and feed points to the carousel.


I do know that in Europe, flat carousels dominate. Sloped carousels are chiefly a United States thing. And I do know for a fact that TPA chose to stick with flat carousels for its renovation claiming that it was easier for older people to use, and I presume that many other Florida airports use them for the same reason.


While flat does dominate in Europe, I've used sloped there too. It's not just a US thing. Canada's major airports have more sloped than flat, while most regional airports are flat.

JHwk wrote:
I thought I had seen flat carousels with an indirect feed from the bagroom before-- it was more automation heavy (read $$?), but it worked pretty well. Can't for the life of me figure out where it was though.

I'm actually surprised there hasn't been more innovation in bag claims though. It would seem like a post-loading sort and dispatch on demand type of system would drastically reduce space requirements and passenger frustration-- scan your claim or boarding pass and get notified when (and where) your specific bags are.


One of the carousels in YOW's old terminal building was like this. Flat carousel fed from the bag room from a slightly elevated belt above the racetrack. The result was bags would go around like a sloped carousel but without heading back out to the bag room after a full revolution. YOW's old terminal was rather unique as there was this one, two flat/racetrack carousels were bags did go back to the bag room and one sloped.
 
phatfarmlines
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Re: Why doesn't PHX use flat baggage carousels?

Sun Dec 09, 2018 7:16 pm

mtnwest1979 wrote:
Off the top of my head, it seems flat belts are used at airports only where belts come directly from outside and bags go in/out and so on until claimed. TPA MEM SAT MAF SRQ Seems if it were designed with a belt coming from further or from above/below, bags would just come down onto flat belt and off to the ground.


Was MEM Concourse B set up with all flat belts running along the perimter of the walls initially, much like Concourses A & C are set up today? From research, a retrofit of the sloped variety was introduced sometime in the late 80's.
 
mtnwest1979
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Re: Why doesn't PHX use flat baggage carousels?

Sun Dec 09, 2018 7:22 pm

I don't recall which was what. But was there wandering around and only ones
iI noticed were flat. Guessing A most likely.
Was about three years ago
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1337Delta764
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Re: Why doesn't PHX use flat baggage carousels?

Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:23 am

mtnwest1979 wrote:
I don't recall which was what. But was there wandering around and only ones
iI noticed were flat. Guessing A most likely.
Was about three years ago


I think T3 was the most recent to switch to sloped. T2 I think used to have flat as well. T4 as far as I know was always sloped.
 
PDX88
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Re: Why doesn't PHX use flat baggage carousels?

Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:16 am

EA CO AS wrote:
cle757 wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
Flat carousels are more difficult for rampers to deal with because you’re looking for a flat, open area to send the bags out (since not-yet-claimed ones keep coming around to the bag well) whereas the sloped carousels never have the bags return to the bag well.


Sloped carousels in the bagroom suck for rampers


Can you tell me why you think so? Every ramper I've ever spoken with who has worked on both types prefers the sloped ones to the flat conveyor type.


I've worked on both and I much prefer the flat belts. Slopes belts mean having to lift the bag over the lip, and is harder to get bags out when the belt is 2-3 bags deep. With flat belts the bag goes from carousel to cart so much easier.
 
N649DL
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Re: Why doesn't PHX use flat baggage carousels?

Mon Dec 10, 2018 2:48 am

Earlier this year I flew LAX-PHX-LAX on AA for work and had to check a bag at the gate. When I got to PHX it was by far one of the longest times I had to wait for a checked back aside maybe a few times at LAX or EWR.
 
ooslc
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Re: Why doesn't PHX use flat baggage carousels?

Mon Dec 10, 2018 2:53 am

From my experience at multiple airports as a ramper, the ones that feed in and go to a slopped, circular belt is better, the bags don't come back so you can offload as fast as you can. The flat ones, like at PDX, the bags come back if not picked up right away so you have to dodge those bags while offloading, especially during the busy inbound times. But as a passenger I like the flat ones better, easier to take off the belt.
    Ironically, I don't work for OO anymore, and I'm not in SLC anymore. PDX based, aviation enthusiast, non-aviation worker.
 
spacecadet
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Re: Why doesn't PHX use flat baggage carousels?

Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:23 am

I think as others have alluded to if not said outright, it's a question of capacity. PHX often has multiple flights offloading one after another onto the same carousel, for hours on end. A flat carousel where the rampers have to dodge multiple bags while they put new ones on would slow everything down.

Most airports with flat conveyor systems are smaller airports serving smaller metro areas. Phoenix has seen explosive growth over the past 20-30 years and is now a city of 1.6 million people, with several million more in the suburbs, and more coming both to visit and to live every day. And PHX only has three terminals to serve all those arrivals.

I'm sure examples exist, but I've personally never flown into an airport serving that many people with that few terminals that didn't use a sloped baggage carousel. Maybe they're more common outside the US, but I don't see how the same problem of trying to serve multiple mainline arrivals while bags are still on the conveyor belt wouldn't be just as true anywhere else.
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TWA772LR
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Re: Why doesn't PHX use flat baggage carousels?

Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:31 am

Sloped carousels can accommodate more bags in a smaller footprint. In my experience, flat carousels always come in and go out through a wall, whereas sloped belts are islands and fed through the middle. Pythagorean Theorem says that the hypotenuse is the longest side of a triangle, which translates to more surface area for more bags to lay on a sloped belt vs flat. At least thats how I see it.

The shack at DAL that CO flew out of was literally just a 50 foot conveyor belt that came out from the wall that all the bags were put on and it had a dead end.
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PDX88
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Re: Why doesn't PHX use flat baggage carousels?

Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:36 am

ooslc wrote:
The flat ones, like at PDX, the bags come back if not picked up right away so you have to dodge those bags while offloading


Normal days I could unload quick enough to have last bag on the belt before the first one came back around. But IROPS was the worst when there were up to 100 unclaimed bags and ran out of room on the belt to finish offloading. That's my only complaint against flat belts.
 
ryanov
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Re: Why doesn't PHX use flat baggage carousels?

Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:46 am

If people would stand back from either type when waiting for their bag, everything would be easier on every type.

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