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santi319
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Spirit Had the Most On-Time Performances in North America Again

Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:33 pm

Spirit had the best on-time performance among North American carriers for the second consecutive month in November, according to FlightStats. Delta came in a close second to the low-cost carrier. The weighted monthly average fell nearly 3 percentage points to 79.8 percent.


https://www.businesstravelnews.com/Transportation/Air/Spirit-Had-the-Most-On-Time-Performances-in-North-America-Again?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=zadv_organic_social&utm_content=generic&utm_campaign=spirit_campaign_1

Spirit is really turning things around, theyve come a long way and Why is Air Canada so low?
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: Spirit Had the Most On-Time Performances in North America Again

Fri Dec 07, 2018 10:07 pm

Well, congratulations to Spirit for this accomplishment. Regardless of statistical issues (and personal opinions of the airline), this is indeed a great accomplishment.

Having said that:

1) The difference between highest and lowest in this ranking is less than 12%. The highest ranking airline, Spirit, is getting just over 4 out of 5 of every airplane dispatched on time, whereas the lowest, Air Canada, is just under 3 out of 4.

2) How many airlines today risk getting in the "low" category when they hold a plane for more than 15 minutes to allow connecting passengers to make their flights? I can't imagine that it is more cost effective to put people up in a hotel because waiting one additional minute means the flight isn't "on-time".

3) What are the causes of all these delays? Was weather an issue during the time period? Or was it entirely the airlines' fault? If a combination of both, to what extent?

4) How much does the size of the airlines' fleet and flight schedule affect the statistics? Comparing relatively small Spirit with Delta might produce some statistical anomalies.

5) Are airlines canceling flights rather than delaying them? And is that true for all airlines? Could Airline A see a major delay coming, cancel the flight, and re-book everyone on the same plane and same crew with a different flight number and claim it was "on-time"?

As I recall from my college statistics classes, two of the most important factors involved in comparisons are accounting for variables and sample size. A true statistician would have to look at the data involved and decide if this was indeed a valid comparison (there's a monstrously large formula for determining that), but in either regard, if indeed Spirit has improved - and the data backs that up - then congratulations again for the achievement.
 
cledaybuck
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Re: Spirit Had the Most On-Time Performances in North America Again

Fri Dec 07, 2018 10:23 pm

Going back through several months, AC, B6, and F9 appear towards the bottom quite often.
As we celebrate mediocrity, all the boys upstairs want to see, how much you'll pay for what you used to get for free.
 
Deltabravo1123
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Re: Spirit Had the Most On-Time Performances in North America Again

Fri Dec 07, 2018 10:34 pm

I moved up to Philadelphia in the summer of 2017, and before that I lived in Salisbury, MD. Prior to moving up here, I flew on American most of the time and ALWAYS experienced delays out of PHL. Since moving up here, I’ve flown Spirit 6 times now (ACY-FLL and back, PHL-FLL and back, and PHL-MCO and back) and have not been disappointed once. Because of the reviews I used to see, I avoided Spirit at all costs. Now they're my "go-to." They've definitely stepped up their terms of service in the past 3 or 4 years.
 
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September11
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Re: Spirit Had the Most On-Time Performances in North America Again

Fri Dec 07, 2018 10:36 pm

Flew on Spirt CMH-LAS-CMH last October

First time on Spirit, both flights arrived early
Airliners.net of the Future
 
pdp
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Re: Spirit Had the Most On-Time Performances in North America Again

Fri Dec 07, 2018 10:46 pm

Is this actually good performance or Ryanair-style block timing? I've had a three hour block time for a 2h20 flight before! We left 30 minutes late but still landed 10 minutes early.
 
32andBelow
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Re: Spirit Had the Most On-Time Performances in North America Again

Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:00 pm

Spirit flights board so fast cus there’s very few roller bags.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Spirit Had the Most On-Time Performances in North America Again

Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:03 pm

PDP: Interesting. However, studies have shown that what most people want is travel time reliability, not just pure shortest travel time. If you could reliably get me from Manhattan to JFK in 75 minutes, I would take you every time over a service that might be 40 minutes but might be 1h45m or more (the way the car is today).

Bob Fornaro is a strong operations guy, a little less of a marketing guy. Pretty much expected that, ULCC or not, their reliability would improve with him as CEO, and their marketing might get a bit more boring and professional. Seems like that's what has happened.

Fornaro is on his way out, and Ted Christie is stepping up, so we will see what happens now.
Last edited by wjcandee on Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
SgtBarone
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Re: Spirit Had the Most On-Time Performances in North America Again

Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:04 pm

Not surprising from my experiences. I fly CLE-LAX on Spirit a few times a year to see friends and family, and the operational performance has been nothing but great.
AGP ATL BCN BNA BOS CLE CLT DCA DEN FLG FLL FRA IAD IAH JAX LAS LAX LGB MAD MCI MDW MKE MUC PHX RDU RSW SEA SJU SLC SNA TPA
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Spirit Had the Most On-Time Performances in North America Again

Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:14 pm

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
1) The difference between highest and lowest in this ranking is less than 12%. The highest ranking airline, Spirit, is getting just over 4 out of 5 of every airplane dispatched on time, whereas the lowest, Air Canada, is just under 3 out of 4.

5) Are airlines canceling flights rather than delaying them? And is that true for all airlines?


Big carriers - AA, DL, UA, WN - have 2000-3000 mainline flights a day. Over the course of a month even a difference of 'just a few points' is statistically significant. It's a representation of more than 60K flights.

Some carriers regularly report completion data, too. Cancellations - and reasons, and performance by major airport, and performance by hour block at major airports - are reported in DOT stats published monthly. There's no shortage of public data in measuring on-time reliability.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: Spirit Had the Most On-Time Performances in North America Again

Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:29 pm

Spirit has become more of a well-oiled machine. Just got off a United and AA flight. Seriously not that different these days. Spirit just had the uncomfortable seats first, now they are all the same and bad. Spirit never seems to have planes waiting for a gate, they seem good at planning on things like that. I bet that helps them alot in these stats, they seem to have spent more behind the scenes to get a smoother operation. Better planning on timing and spacing of turns etc.
 
IPFreely
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Re: Spirit Had the Most On-Time Performances in North America Again

Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:41 am

cledaybuck wrote:
Going back through several months, AC, B6, and F9 appear towards the bottom quite often.


B6 and F9 have something in common: they operate all of their own flights. Many of the other airlines outsource lots of their flights, especially ones that operate late in the evening and/or to smaller markets, to Express- or Connection-type carriers. They are quick to delay these flights instead of mainline flights when there are ATC delays that reduce arrival/departure rates. The airlines above them are reporting "mainline only" performance. For many of us who do most of our travel domestically and rarely just hub-to-hub, "mainline only" statistics are pretty meaningless.

These results also reflect very well on NK and WN, which are above average without using regional carriers to protect their statistics.

As far as why AC is at the bottom, I can only speculate there are two reasons: 1. Weather in their markets, and 2. Dominant market share and lack of competition only drives them to be "good enough".
 
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RWA380
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Re: Spirit Had the Most On-Time Performances in North America Again

Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:54 am

One time on Spirit, on-time was excellent both ways PDX-DFW-PDX, we pushed the gate at PDX as the DFW flight arrived (NK has a one gate operation at PDX) it was very slick as the planes passed each other. The return flight, late in the evening, around 9-10pm, left the gate on-time from DFW. Only notes I feel worth mentioning, we arrived early in Dallas, mostly due to a medical emergency on board, but we also arrived back into PDX early, which just meant we had to wait until the DFW flight departed, about 20 minutes, the return flight was not fully serviced in Dallas & the bathrooms reeked so badly that every time someone used a bathroom, they sprayed the back of the plane with glade spray, leaving a pungent combo of human waste, blue juice & glades country flowers, for a 4 hour flight in a sealed metal tube.

IMHO, NK has on-time performance excellence because they cut what corners they can on turns vs the US3, AS, B6, WN. like dumping the waste tanks.
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AJMIA
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Re: Spirit Had the Most On-Time Performances in North America Again

Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:57 am

32andBelow wrote:
Spirit flights board so fast cus there’s very few roller bags.


Bingo.... Spirit passengers have to pay more to carry their bags on then to check them. Most everyone else has free carry on bags. When you remove the massive amount of carry on bags from the boarding process you cut the time in half. Most of my delays are for slow boarding... the new narrower aisles don't help either.
Lady it's a jet... not a kite.
 
cledaybuck
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Re: Spirit Had the Most On-Time Performances in North America Again

Sat Dec 08, 2018 1:06 am

IPFreely wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
Going back through several months, AC, B6, and F9 appear towards the bottom quite often.


B6 and F9 have something in common: they operate all of their own flights. Many of the other airlines outsource lots of their flights, especially ones that operate late in the evening and/or to smaller markets, to Express- or Connection-type carriers. They are quick to delay these flights instead of mainline flights when there are ATC delays that reduce arrival/departure rates. The airlines above them are reporting "mainline only" performance. For many of us who do most of our travel domestically and rarely just hub-to-hub, "mainline only" statistics are pretty meaningless.

These results also reflect very well on NK and WN, which are above average without using regional carriers to protect their statistics.

As far as why AC is at the bottom, I can only speculate there are two reasons: 1. Weather in their markets, and 2. Dominant market share and lack of competition only drives them to be "good enough".

Sure, but as you note, WN and NK operate all their own flights too. As someone who has a couple of upcoming flights booked on F9, it does make me a little skeptical. I also understand B6 operatres has n some congested airports, but they still need to do better.
As we celebrate mediocrity, all the boys upstairs want to see, how much you'll pay for what you used to get for free.
 
joeblow10
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Re: Spirit Had the Most On-Time Performances in North America Again

Sat Dec 08, 2018 1:25 am

Sure, but as you note, WN and NK operate all their own flights too. As someone who has a couple of upcoming flights booked on F9, it does make me a little skeptical. I also understand B6 operatres has n some congested airports, but they still need to do better.


The way I see it, F9 is like the Spirit of 5 years ago at the moment - back then Spirit was not really that operationally reliable, they ran crazy fare sales (I.e. 99% off of base fare), and they had an all around horrible reputation.

Since then, Spirit has stepped up their game: on-time is way up, their fares have normalized much closer to those of the big three while still being low, and their reputation is climbing - especially as they add in flight WiFi, go multiple daily in many markets, etc.

The one thing that F9 really does struggle with is the dartboard - it makes for crazy aircraft scheduling and utilization, where Spirit even back in the day focused on pretty much consistent scheduling to and from a few major focus cities. Combine the ever changing route map with aircraft utilized to the max - and it’s kind of a mess. It’s not as horrible in the winter, but I think you’d be hard pressed to argue this summer was anything but a meltdown as there were days they cancelled 15%+ of their flights and on time plummeted into the 60s.

That’s not to say I refuse to fly them - the fares are fantastic, but I’ve learned to temper my expectations. Give it 5 or so years and I think Frontier will also be a decent operation.
 
F9LASDEN
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Re: Spirit Had the Most On-Time Performances in North America Again

Sat Dec 08, 2018 1:33 am

cledaybuck wrote:
IPFreely wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
Going back through several months, AC, B6, and F9 appear towards the bottom quite often.


B6 and F9 have something in common: they operate all of their own flights. Many of the other airlines outsource lots of their flights, especially ones that operate late in the evening and/or to smaller markets, to Express- or Connection-type carriers. They are quick to delay these flights instead of mainline flights when there are ATC delays that reduce arrival/departure rates. The airlines above them are reporting "mainline only" performance. For many of us who do most of our travel domestically and rarely just hub-to-hub, "mainline only" statistics are pretty meaningless.

These results also reflect very well on NK and WN, which are above average without using regional carriers to protect their statistics.

As far as why AC is at the bottom, I can only speculate there are two reasons: 1. Weather in their markets, and 2. Dominant market share and lack of competition only drives them to be "good enough".

Sure, but as you note, WN and NK operate all their own flights too. As someone who has a couple of upcoming flights booked on F9, it does make me a little skeptical. I also understand B6 operatres has n some congested airports, but they still need to do better.


If it makes you feel any better about your upcoming F9 flights, I fly them way more than any other carrier (26 segments on F9 in 2018 vs my next most commonly flown carrier, UA, with 4 segments in 2018) and the vast majority of my flights have been on time or even early. A few flights were delayed, but most of those were pretty minor (in the neighborhood of 30-45 minutes behind schedule). I did have one rough 4 hour delay, but it was during a pretty bad snowstorm in DEN.
Spirit of the West...A Whole Different Animal...Low Fares Done Right
 
heretothere
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Re: Spirit Had the Most On-Time Performances in North America Again

Sat Dec 08, 2018 2:11 am

IPFreely wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
Going back through several months, AC, B6, and F9 appear towards the bottom quite often.


B6 and F9 have something in common: they operate all of their own flights. Many of the other airlines outsource lots of their flights, especially ones that operate late in the evening and/or to smaller markets, to Express- or Connection-type carriers. They are quick to delay these flights instead of mainline flights when there are ATC delays that reduce arrival/departure rates. The airlines above them are reporting "mainline only" performance. For many of us who do most of our travel domestically and rarely just hub-to-hub, "mainline only" statistics are pretty meaningless.


Not true anymore. The AA/DL/UA numbers include mainline and regional now.
 
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CLTRampRat
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Re: Spirit Had the Most On-Time Performances in North America Again

Sat Dec 08, 2018 2:28 am

Good for Spirit. I’m a fan of the ULCCs. Besides as others have stated, the big boys are slowly turning into the ULCCs, just more expensive.
 
Wacker1000
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Re: Spirit Had the Most On-Time Performances in North America Again

Sat Dec 08, 2018 2:50 am

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
2) How many airlines today risk getting in the "low" category when they hold a plane for more than 15 minutes to allow connecting passengers to make their flights? I can't imagine that it is more cost effective to put people up in a hotel because waiting one additional minute means the flight isn't "on-time".


That logic is flawed. So you hold the flight and depart 1 minute late - at what point does that spiral into 10 or 15 minutes because "it is only 10 minutes"? On time becomes "ehh close enough". The gate agent that is not privy to the departure or landing slot may not see it as an issue but now you are waiting for the next slot and take an even larger delay. What about the 20 people that will now miss their connection because you held the flight for 1 person? What about the arriving flight that is waiting for the gate to empty? It spirals into a completely unmanageable mess and you put dozens of people into a hotel for the evening instead of one.

If a carrier wants a fighting chance at success they need to figure this out - you are either on time or you are not. If these numbers are true, Spirit knows what the masses want - an inexpensive ticket for an on time flight. Kudos to them.
 
canyonblue17
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Re: Spirit Had the Most On-Time Performances in North America Again

Sat Dec 08, 2018 2:53 am

Isn't a big part of this that Spirit will not even check in a passenger less than 45 minutes before departure. If so it will help the airline look good, but if you've stood in line for a half-hour and you get to the counter at 44 minutes before your flight - that might really stink for passengers.
negative ghostrider the pattern is full
 
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September11
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Re: Spirit Had the Most On-Time Performances in North America Again

Sat Dec 08, 2018 3:05 am

AJMIA wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
Spirit flights board so fast cus there’s very few roller bags.


Bingo.... Spirit passengers have to pay more to carry their bags on then to check them. Most everyone else has free carry on bags. When you remove the massive amount of carry on bags from the boarding process you cut the time in half. Most of my delays are for slow boarding... the new narrower aisles don't help either.


Aisles on Spirit planes are noticeably wide... I didn't expect those wide aisles on my two Spirit flights two months ago.
Airliners.net of the Future
 
UpNAWAy
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Re: Spirit Had the Most On-Time Performances in North America Again

Sat Dec 08, 2018 3:12 am

Weather and ATC is the reason for almost all delays.
 
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hongkongflyer
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Re: Spirit Had the Most On-Time Performances in North America Again

Sat Dec 08, 2018 3:18 am

Another point is that Spirit is a point to point carrier, they don't have any responsibility toward the passenger who can't get onto the connecting flight. So every flight can leave whenever the boarding is completed. For AC, they have to provide accommodation including hotel; meal; re-routing for the missed connection, it may be more benefit to the airline by delaying the flights for the late comers.
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: Spirit Had the Most On-Time Performances in North America Again

Sat Dec 08, 2018 5:00 am

Wacker1000 wrote:
PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
2) How many airlines today risk getting in the "low" category when they hold a plane for more than 15 minutes to allow connecting passengers to make their flights? I can't imagine that it is more cost effective to put people up in a hotel because waiting one additional minute means the flight isn't "on-time".


That logic is flawed. So you hold the flight and depart 1 minute late - at what point does that spiral into 10 or 15 minutes because "it is only 10 minutes"? On time becomes "ehh close enough". The gate agent that is not privy to the departure or landing slot may not see it as an issue but now you are waiting for the next slot and take an even larger delay. What about the 20 people that will now miss their connection because you held the flight for 1 person? What about the arriving flight that is waiting for the gate to empty? It spirals into a completely unmanageable mess and you put dozens of people into a hotel for the evening instead of one.

If a carrier wants a fighting chance at success they need to figure this out - you are either on time or you are not. If these numbers are true, Spirit knows what the masses want - an inexpensive ticket for an on time flight. Kudos to them.


You missed my point. A plane that departs 14 minutes behind schedule is "on-time", but at 15 minutes and one second, it's late. Those aren't my stats, that's the way the system works. And we're talking here about connecting flights, not originating flights. If weather delays a number of passengers to a connecting flight that is the only one of the day, do you hold the plane past the point of "on-time"? Or do you send it just to get an on-time departure and let the passengers fend for themselves? That's what I'm asking for - where is the cut-off point?

If Spirit is doing well at its primary mission, and is making money simultaneously, great! Good for them - keep it up! But I don't have all the info on this examination.
 
michman
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Re: Spirit Had the Most On-Time Performances in North America Again

Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:53 am

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:

2) How many airlines today risk getting in the "low" category when they hold a plane for more than 15 minutes to allow connecting passengers to make their flights? I can't imagine that it is more cost effective to put people up in a hotel because waiting one additional minute means the flight isn't "on-time".



While airlines seem to have gotten somewhat more aggressive with ontime departures, the majority of misconnects likely do not result in overnight stays. Further, if the reason for the delay is weather/ATC, the airlines are not on the hook for the hotel room.
 
nkops
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Re: Spirit Had the Most On-Time Performances in North America Again

Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:52 am

canyonblue17 wrote:
Isn't a big part of this that Spirit will not even check in a passenger less than 45 minutes before departure. If so it will help the airline look good, but if you've stood in line for a half-hour and you get to the counter at 44 minutes before your flight - that might really stink for passengers.


The old airport I worked in was dominated by NK .. what they seemed to do was call for final check-in for a flight 45 min before dept. so if you were already in line they would pull you to the front and check you in... however, if you showed up after that you were out of luck. I have also seen other airline check-in counters do the same.
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OzarkD9S
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Re: Spirit Had the Most On-Time Performances in North America Again

Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:04 pm

hongkongflyer wrote:

Another point is that Spirit is a point to point carrier, they don't have any responsibility toward the passenger who can't get onto the connecting flight. So every flight can leave whenever the boarding is completed. For AC, they have to provide accommodation including hotel; meal; re-routing for the missed connection, it may be more benefit to the airline by delaying the flights for the late comers.


Not entirely true. NK sells connections where available, and the FLL operation is more connection oriented than the rest of the system.
Next up: STL DEN PSP DEN STL
 
cledaybuck
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Re: Spirit Had the Most On-Time Performances in North America Again

Sat Dec 08, 2018 1:22 pm

AJMIA wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
Spirit flights board so fast cus there’s very few roller bags.


Bingo.... Spirit passengers have to pay more to carry their bags on then to check them. Most everyone else has free carry on bags. When you remove the massive amount of carry on bags from the boarding process you cut the time in half. Most of my delays are for slow boarding... the new narrower aisles don't help either.

So do F9 passengers.
canyonblue17 wrote:
Isn't a big part of this that Spirit will not even check in a passenger less than 45 minutes before departure. If so it will help the airline look good, but if you've stood in line for a half-hour and you get to the counter at 44 minutes before your flight - that might really stink for passengers.

Same at F9, and yet their on time...
As we celebrate mediocrity, all the boys upstairs want to see, how much you'll pay for what you used to get for free.
 
sagechan
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Re: Spirit Had the Most On-Time Performances in North America Again

Sat Dec 08, 2018 1:57 pm

Wacker1000 wrote:
PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
2) How many airlines today risk getting in the "low" category when they hold a plane for more than 15 minutes to allow connecting passengers to make their flights? I can't imagine that it is more cost effective to put people up in a hotel because waiting one additional minute means the flight isn't "on-time".


That logic is flawed. So you hold the flight and depart 1 minute late - at what point does that spiral into 10 or 15 minutes because "it is only 10 minutes"? On time becomes "ehh close enough". The gate agent that is not privy to the departure or landing slot may not see it as an issue but now you are waiting for the next slot and take an even larger delay. What about the 20 people that will now miss their connection because you held the flight for 1 person? What about the arriving flight that is waiting for the gate to empty? It spirals into a completely unmanageable mess and you put dozens of people into a hotel for the evening instead of one.

If a carrier wants a fighting chance at success they need to figure this out - you are either on time or you are not. If these numbers are true, Spirit knows what the masses want - an inexpensive ticket for an on time flight. Kudos to them.


Mostly agree with this with one major exception, outbound flights to RON statations should be reasonable held to accomdate on ground late connecting pax, unless valid operating issues override (crew time out, etc)
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Wacker1000
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Re: Spirit Had the Most On-Time Performances in North America Again

Sat Dec 08, 2018 2:17 pm

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:

You missed my point. A plane that departs 14 minutes behind schedule is "on-time", but at 15 minutes and one second, it's late. Those aren't my stats, that's the way the system works. And we're talking here about connecting flights, not originating flights. If weather delays a number of passengers to a connecting flight that is the only one of the day, do you hold the plane past the point of "on-time"? Or do you send it just to get an on-time departure and let the passengers fend for themselves? That's what I'm asking for - where is the cut-off point?


The plane leaves at departure time no matter what. You will always hit the DOT numbers and you create a manageable operation.
 
santi319
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Re: Spirit Had the Most On-Time Performances in North America Again

Sat Dec 08, 2018 3:02 pm

canyonblue17 wrote:
Isn't a big part of this that Spirit will not even check in a passenger less than 45 minutes before departure. If so it will help the airline look good, but if you've stood in line for a half-hour and you get to the counter at 44 minutes before your flight - that might really stink for passengers.


I mean most if not all airlines close the flight 30 mins for domestic and 60 for international..if you arrive to your domestic flight and check in at the airport (knowing how crazy TSA lines are) in less than 30 minutes, sorry but you deserve to be left behind...
 
WayexTDI
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Re: Spirit Had the Most On-Time Performances in North America Again

Sat Dec 08, 2018 3:11 pm

CLTRampRat wrote:
Good for Spirit. I’m a fan of the ULCCs. Besides as others have stated, the big boys are slowly turning into the ULCCs, just more expensive.

Isn't that an oxymoron? If the big boys are more expensive than the ULCC's, they are not ULCC's...
 
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CLTRampRat
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Re: Spirit Had the Most On-Time Performances in North America Again

Sat Dec 08, 2018 3:14 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
CLTRampRat wrote:
Good for Spirit. I’m a fan of the ULCCs. Besides as others have stated, the big boys are slowly turning into the ULCCs, just more expensive.

Isn't that an oxymoron? If the big boys are more expensive than the ULCC's, they are not ULCC's...



Call it what you will.
My point is if given the choice to pay $150 vs $550 or more for the same experience then I will pay the former.

Hell, Spirit has WiFi now. If they do ever come into CLT you will certainly give them a try. I’m flying Frontier in January. I’ve flown Allegiant a few times and never had a problem with them.
 
Aliqiout
Posts: 387
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:10 pm

Re: Spirit Had the Most On-Time Performances in North America Again

Sat Dec 08, 2018 3:47 pm

hongkongflyer wrote:
Another point is that Spirit is a point to point carrier, they don't have any responsibility toward the passenger who can't get onto the connecting flight. So every flight can leave whenever the boarding is completed. For AC, they have to provide accommodation including hotel; meal; re-routing for the missed connection, it may be more benefit to the airline by delaying the flights for the late comers.

Are you thinking of Allegiant? NK sells plenty of connections.

Also, only a small minority of missed connections result in an airline paid hotel room.
 
Aliqiout
Posts: 387
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Re: Spirit Had the Most On-Time Performances in North America Again

Sat Dec 08, 2018 3:50 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
CLTRampRat wrote:
Good for Spirit. I’m a fan of the ULCCs. Besides as others have stated, the big boys are slowly turning into the ULCCs, just more expensive.

Isn't that an oxymoron? If the big boys are more expensive than the ULCC's, they are not ULCC's...

The low cost in LCC and ULCC does not refer to the cost of a ticket, it refers to the operating cost of the airline.

The two often go hand in hand. A LCC is unlikely to be able to compete on amenities so they often only compete on price, but in general, they will charge as much as the market will bear, just like the other guys.
 
willenglish
Posts: 41
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2017 1:13 pm

Re: Spirit Had the Most On-Time Performances in North America Again

Sat Dec 08, 2018 4:23 pm

AC at the bottom really isn’t surprising, nor is it really their fault. Nav Canada isn’t exactly a “good” organization, and when it comes to ATC delays, that really hurts AC, especially in their major hubs YUL, YYZ and YVR. Nav Canada just simply has staffing issues, and for that reason many more GDPs and Ground Stops are issued and the airlines numbers suffer.

Same with WJ being a little lower, a lot of it has to do with ATC delays, mostly due to staffing on Nav Canada’s part. With WJ having more flights out of YYC, which is usually not as prone to these delays as AC major hubs, it allows them better OTP.
 
WayexTDI
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Re: Spirit Had the Most On-Time Performances in North America Again

Sat Dec 08, 2018 4:57 pm

CLTRampRat wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
CLTRampRat wrote:
Good for Spirit. I’m a fan of the ULCCs. Besides as others have stated, the big boys are slowly turning into the ULCCs, just more expensive.

Isn't that an oxymoron? If the big boys are more expensive than the ULCC's, they are not ULCC's...



Call it what you will.
My point is if given the choice to pay $150 vs $550 or more for the same experience then I will pay the former.

Hell, Spirit has WiFi now. If they do ever come into CLT you will certainly give them a try. I’m flying Frontier in January. I’ve flown Allegiant a few times and never had a problem with them.

The big boys have done a lot and are now offering tickets at similar prices than the ULCC's (i.e., Basic Economy on DL); however, the experience on-board is the same as those paying full economy price, unlike the ULCC's.
So, it's no longer $150 vs $550, it's more $150 vs $160, especially when factoring in the extra cost of a carry-on bag.
 
OB1504
Posts: 3982
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Re: Spirit Had the Most On-Time Performances in North America Again

Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:08 pm

Wacker1000 wrote:
PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:

You missed my point. A plane that departs 14 minutes behind schedule is "on-time", but at 15 minutes and one second, it's late. Those aren't my stats, that's the way the system works. And we're talking here about connecting flights, not originating flights. If weather delays a number of passengers to a connecting flight that is the only one of the day, do you hold the plane past the point of "on-time"? Or do you send it just to get an on-time departure and let the passengers fend for themselves? That's what I'm asking for - where is the cut-off point?


The plane leaves at departure time no matter what. You will always hit the DOT numbers and you create a manageable operation.


Tell that to AA. Their obsession with D0 hasn’t produced a marked increase in performance but has succeeded in pissing off employees and customers alike.
 
Wacker1000
Posts: 234
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2014 6:36 pm

Re: Spirit Had the Most On-Time Performances in North America Again

Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:27 pm

OB1504 wrote:
Tell that to AA. Their obsession with D0 hasn’t produced a marked increase in performance but has succeeded in pissing off employees and customers alike.


Only 2/3rds of the employees have a problem with the concept. The other 1/3rd figured it out awhile ago.

The passengers that don't get it are unaware that it is not their private jet.
 
F9Animal
Posts: 4438
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:13 am

Re: Spirit Had the Most On-Time Performances in North America Again

Sun Dec 09, 2018 7:00 am

I recall the CEO coming out awhile back and saying he was going to focus on customer service and on time flights. Well, it appears he has delivered on that. Does Spirit outsource most of their customer service and ramp? Do they have their own above and below wing at more active destinations or focus cities? Perhaps the airline has padded more time into their flights?

F9 has outsourced all above and below wing, going with the cheapest vendors available. I wonder if this might be a contributing factor for their less than stellar on time performance? I am also told that F9 tends to bounce from contractor to contractor. The amount of training it takes for above wing is no 2 day class, and high turnover from those outsourced stations may be leading to staff shortages?
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
bravoindia
Posts: 219
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2016 5:07 pm

Re: Spirit Had the Most On-Time Performances in North America Again

Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:20 pm

UpNAWAy wrote:
Weather and ATC is the reason for almost all delays.



ATC? Lol. Ok. Explain.
 
Jetsouth
Posts: 369
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2016 12:59 pm

Re: Spirit Had the Most On-Time Performances in North America Again

Sun Dec 09, 2018 4:58 pm

Perhaps airlines with the highest delays are airlines that serve in areas of higher snow and cold weather (such as AC and Westjet) and these delays are simply due to delays from snow days and plane de-icing. Frontier and JetBlue, also among the most delayed airlines, primarily serve in areas of winter snow and ice. On a snowy day in Toronto, for instance, practically every domestic and every flight to/from the States flight is delayed. If one would eliminate snow/ice delays, one would probably find that these airlines would have substantially fewer delays.
 
stlgph
Posts: 11224
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

Re: Spirit Had the Most On-Time Performances in North America Again

Sun Dec 09, 2018 5:35 pm

Wacker1000 wrote:
OB1504 wrote:
Tell that to AA. Their obsession with D0 hasn’t produced a marked increase in performance but has succeeded in pissing off employees and customers alike.


Only 2/3rds of the employees have a problem with the concept. The other 1/3rd figured it out awhile ago.

The passengers that don't get it are unaware that it is not their private jet.


That's not the point. I've had instances on American where I missed a flight by 2-3 minutes because of THEIR fault, not mine.
I did my part. I showed up. Your airline has a plane arrive in PHL early by 20 minutes at 705am then sits right in front of the gate because a gate crew wasn't scheduled until 8am and then doesn't get into said gate causing everyone to miss their connection during the 8 to 840a time frame. Then that airline's agents tell everyone you can't get to your destination until the next day or even the day after and will have to spend the day/night in PHL at your own expense. Yeah. No.
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SierraPacific
Posts: 435
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am

Re: Spirit Had the Most On-Time Performances in North America Again

Sun Dec 09, 2018 5:44 pm

Where is Hawaiian on the diagram? They usually lead the pack on stuff like this.
 
Airbuser
Posts: 32
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2018 1:42 pm

Re: Spirit Had the Most On-Time Performances in North America Again

Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:22 pm

Are OUT and IN times generated electronically at all airlines?

With automated parking systems the OUT and IN times are done by the electronic eye based on when the plane stops moving, IN time and first movement, OUT time. Where there is no automated system it is brakes, passenger door or cargo door which ever is first for IN time and last for OUT time.
 
santi319
Topic Author
Posts: 1043
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 3:24 pm

Re: Spirit Had the Most On-Time Performances in North America Again

Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:35 pm

SierraPacific wrote:
Where is Hawaiian on the diagram? They usually lead the pack on stuff like this.

Thats right! Theyre usually in the top spot above NK! It will be interesting to know why are they not on the chart..
 
User avatar
aemoreira1981
Posts: 3615
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:17 am

Re: Spirit Had the Most On-Time Performances in North America Again

Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:36 pm

cledaybuck wrote:
Going back through several months, AC, B6, and F9 appear towards the bottom quite often.


B6 operates its primary operations out of heavy-use (and some slot-restricted) airports, such as JFK and LGA. But I'm surprised about F9 in particular, especially with respect to NK, given that their fleet is of similar planes (A319/A320/A321), and that both primarily outsource their ramp and gate services (except for NK, at FLL).
 
sevenair
Posts: 2959
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2001 7:18 am

Re: Spirit Had the Most On-Time Performances in North America Again

Sun Dec 09, 2018 8:39 pm

Airbuser wrote:
Are OUT and IN times generated electronically at all airlines?

With automated parking systems the OUT and IN times are done by the electronic eye based on when the plane stops moving, IN time and first movement, OUT time. Where there is no automated system it is brakes, passenger door or cargo door which ever is first for IN time and last for OUT time.


I believe all airbus planes will. They have OOOI Out Off On In and on the next page on the MCDU AOC page they'll have all sorts of times such as doors but the OOOI one is the most important.
 
cledaybuck
Posts: 1726
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: Spirit Had the Most On-Time Performances in North America Again

Sun Dec 09, 2018 8:50 pm

Jetsouth wrote:
Perhaps airlines with the highest delays are airlines that serve in areas of higher snow and cold weather (such as AC and Westjet) and these delays are simply due to delays from snow days and plane de-icing. Frontier and JetBlue, also among the most delayed airlines, primarily serve in areas of winter snow and ice. On a snowy day in Toronto, for instance, practically every domestic and every flight to/from the States flight is delayed. If one would eliminate snow/ice delays, one would probably find that these airlines would have substantially fewer delays.

Nope. You can go back month by month. I’m doubting snow was a problem in August.
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