Jetsouth
Posts: 339
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2016 12:59 pm

Re: Spirit Had the Most On-Time Performances in North America Again

Sun Dec 09, 2018 8:52 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
Going back through several months, AC, B6, and F9 appear towards the bottom quite often.


B6 operates its primary operations out of heavy-use (and some slot-restricted) airports, such as JFK and LGA. But I'm surprised about F9 in particular, especially with respect to NK, given that their fleet is of similar planes (A319/A320/A321), and that both primarily outsource their ramp and gate services (except for NK, at FLL).


Again, AC, B6, and F9 have a disproportionate amount of their operations out of cities with snow and ice, so their planes will often have delays on snow days, and even will have delays on non-snow winter days when they have to de-ice. NK has a disproportionate amount of their operations out of non-snow cities, so they will not be faced with those delays. I bet if snow/de-icing delays were eliminated from these on-time performance calculations, AC, B6 and F9 will move way up on the list and NK way down.
 
N353SK
Posts: 1014
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 5:08 am

Re: Spirit Had the Most On-Time Performances in North America Again

Sun Dec 09, 2018 9:17 pm

Jetsouth wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
Going back through several months, AC, B6, and F9 appear towards the bottom quite often.


B6 operates its primary operations out of heavy-use (and some slot-restricted) airports, such as JFK and LGA. But I'm surprised about F9 in particular, especially with respect to NK, given that their fleet is of similar planes (A319/A320/A321), and that both primarily outsource their ramp and gate services (except for NK, at FLL).


Again, AC, B6, and F9 have a disproportionate amount of their operations out of cities with snow and ice, so their planes will often have delays on snow days, and even will have delays on non-snow winter days when they have to de-ice. NK has a disproportionate amount of their operations out of non-snow cities, so they will not be faced with those delays. I bet if snow/de-icing delays were eliminated from these on-time performance calculations, AC, B6 and F9 will move way up on the list and NK way down.


Air Canada and Frontier were at the bottom of that list in June, July, August, September, and October too. Snow is not the culprit.
 
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flymco753
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Re: Spirit Had the Most On-Time Performances in North America Again

Sun Dec 09, 2018 9:22 pm

NK runs through deicing very efficiently in the cold weather stations they fly to. It's that NK is emphasizing D0, something airlines like B6 and F9 aren't necessarily emphasizing enough,
...the carriage of liquids, gels, and aerosols are prohibited through the screening checkpoint except for travel size toiletries of 3 ounces or less...
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Spirit Had the Most On-Time Performances in North America Again

Sun Dec 09, 2018 9:31 pm

I think Spirit has the right idea for charging high prices for overhead bin use. I'd rather see the legacies give one free checked bag and charge for overhead bin luggage. Just allow one free personal item (backpack, purse, briefcase) in the overhead bins. Anything larger should be a minimum of $100 to carry-on. This would significantly speed up boarding and people would have more leg room since they wouldn't have to shove anything underneath their seat.
 
Wacker1000
Posts: 178
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Re: Spirit Had the Most On-Time Performances in North America Again

Sun Dec 09, 2018 10:18 pm

stlgph wrote:
Wacker1000 wrote:
OB1504 wrote:
Tell that to AA. Their obsession with D0 hasn’t produced a marked increase in performance but has succeeded in pissing off employees and customers alike.


Only 2/3rds of the employees have a problem with the concept. The other 1/3rd figured it out awhile ago.

The passengers that don't get it are unaware that it is not their private jet.


That's not the point. I've had instances on American where I missed a flight by 2-3 minutes because of THEIR fault, not mine.
I did my part. I showed up. Your airline has a plane arrive in PHL early by 20 minutes at 705am then sits right in front of the gate because a gate crew wasn't scheduled until 8am and then doesn't get into said gate causing everyone to miss their connection during the 8 to 840a time frame. Then that airline's agents tell everyone you can't get to your destination until the next day or even the day after and will have to spend the day/night in PHL at your own expense. Yeah. No.


And if they held the flight for you, more customers flying on that aircraft on that day would be missing a connection just like you did. Maybe they were understaffed because the crew was busy dealing with another aircraft that was late departing due to a late passenger. ;)
 
BobbyPSP
Posts: 345
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2004 12:29 pm

Re: Spirit Had the Most On-Time Performances in North America Again

Sun Dec 09, 2018 10:55 pm

RWA380 wrote:
One time on Spirit, on-time was excellent both ways PDX-DFW-PDX, we pushed the gate at PDX as the DFW flight arrived (NK has a one gate operation at PDX) it was very slick as the planes passed each other. The return flight, late in the evening, around 9-10pm, left the gate on-time from DFW. Only notes I feel worth mentioning, we arrived early in Dallas, mostly due to a medical emergency on board, but we also arrived back into PDX early, which just meant we had to wait until the DFW flight departed, about 20 minutes, the return flight was not fully serviced in Dallas & the bathrooms reeked so badly that every time someone used a bathroom, they sprayed the back of the plane with glade spray, leaving a pungent combo of human waste, blue juice & glades country flowers, for a 4 hour flight in a sealed metal tube.

IMHO, NK has on-time performance excellence because they cut what corners they can on turns vs the US3, AS, B6, WN. like dumping the waste tanks.


It’s doesnt take long to dump a lav. It’s a little awkward on the A32X type due to fuselage height vs say an RJ but it’s not a hard nor time consuming.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Spirit Had the Most On-Time Performances in North America Again

Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:55 am

flymco753 wrote:
NK runs through deicing very efficiently in the cold weather stations they fly to. It's that NK is emphasizing D0, something airlines like B6 and F9 aren't necessarily emphasizing enough,


D0 is DHL Air UK. Is that what you mean?
 
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flymco753
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Re: Spirit Had the Most On-Time Performances in North America Again

Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:10 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
NK runs through deicing very efficiently in the cold weather stations they fly to. It's that NK is emphasizing D0, something airlines like B6 and F9 aren't necessarily emphasizing enough,


D0 is DHL Air UK. Is that what you mean?
D-0 is a metric regarding having the cargo doors closed at -0 to departure time.
...the carriage of liquids, gels, and aerosols are prohibited through the screening checkpoint except for travel size toiletries of 3 ounces or less...
 
WayexTDI
Posts: 1168
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:38 pm

Re: Spirit Had the Most On-Time Performances in North America Again

Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:19 am

BobbyPSP wrote:
RWA380 wrote:
One time on Spirit, on-time was excellent both ways PDX-DFW-PDX, we pushed the gate at PDX as the DFW flight arrived (NK has a one gate operation at PDX) it was very slick as the planes passed each other. The return flight, late in the evening, around 9-10pm, left the gate on-time from DFW. Only notes I feel worth mentioning, we arrived early in Dallas, mostly due to a medical emergency on board, but we also arrived back into PDX early, which just meant we had to wait until the DFW flight departed, about 20 minutes, the return flight was not fully serviced in Dallas & the bathrooms reeked so badly that every time someone used a bathroom, they sprayed the back of the plane with glade spray, leaving a pungent combo of human waste, blue juice & glades country flowers, for a 4 hour flight in a sealed metal tube.

IMHO, NK has on-time performance excellence because they cut what corners they can on turns vs the US3, AS, B6, WN. like dumping the waste tanks.


It’s doesnt take long to dump a lav. It’s a little awkward on the A32X type due to fuselage height vs say an RJ but it’s not a hard nor time consuming.

If by RJ you mean CRJ & ERJ (135-140-145), remember they have recirculating toilets, which must be dumped and refilled one by one.
On the A320Family, it's a vacuum system; so, only 1 tank to empty, I believe the clean water tank can be refilled at the same time. So, it's most likely quicker; and Ground Support have trucks that reach the belly of the planes, making it easy to empty the tank.
 
Tucker1
Posts: 65
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:04 pm

Re: Spirit Had the Most On-Time Performances in North America Again

Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:33 am

Good for them. Not too difficult to get regional flights out on time. Lmfao
 
Tucker1
Posts: 65
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:04 pm

Re: Spirit Had the Most On-Time Performances in North America Again

Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:34 am

Good for them. Not too difficult to get regional flights out on time. Lmfao
 
WayexTDI
Posts: 1168
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:38 pm

Re: Spirit Had the Most On-Time Performances in North America Again

Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:05 am

Tucker1 wrote:
Good for them. Not too difficult to get regional flights out on time. Lmfao

Reality says otherwise. Regional carriers and short-hops are the first to suffer delays/cancellation whenever the crap hit the fan.
 
Coexstud
Posts: 48
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 9:48 pm

Re: Spirit Had the Most On-Time Performances in North America Again

Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:48 am

Find that hard too swallow every flight commute wise on them has been hours and I do mean hours late Bwi-dfw and dfw to Bwi or Bwi-iAh up wards of 6 hours delayed
 
BobbyPSP
Posts: 345
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2004 12:29 pm

Re: Spirit Had the Most On-Time Performances in North America Again

Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:56 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
BobbyPSP wrote:
RWA380 wrote:
One time on Spirit, on-time was excellent both ways PDX-DFW-PDX, we pushed the gate at PDX as the DFW flight arrived (NK has a one gate operation at PDX) it was very slick as the planes passed each other. The return flight, late in the evening, around 9-10pm, left the gate on-time from DFW. Only notes I feel worth mentioning, we arrived early in Dallas, mostly due to a medical emergency on board, but we also arrived back into PDX early, which just meant we had to wait until the DFW flight departed, about 20 minutes, the return flight was not fully serviced in Dallas & the bathrooms reeked so badly that every time someone used a bathroom, they sprayed the back of the plane with glade spray, leaving a pungent combo of human waste, blue juice & glades country flowers, for a 4 hour flight in a sealed metal tube.

IMHO, NK has on-time performance excellence because they cut what corners they can on turns vs the US3, AS, B6, WN. like dumping the waste tanks.


It’s doesnt take long to dump a lav. It’s a little awkward on the A32X type due to fuselage height vs say an RJ but it’s not a hard nor time consuming.

If by RJ you mean CRJ & ERJ (135-140-145), remember they have recirculating toilets, which must be dumped and refilled one by one.
On the A320Family, it's a vacuum system; so, only 1 tank to empty, I believe the clean water tank can be refilled at the same time. So, it's most likely quicker; and Ground Support have trucks that reach the belly of the planes, making it easy to empty the tank.


What does this add? Seriously we’re talking about being able to dump a lav on a turn
 
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tb727
Posts: 2145
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 1:40 pm

Re: Spirit Had the Most On-Time Performances in North America Again

Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:48 pm

lol, the lavs are dumped on every turn at NK and Airbus doesn't use blue juice. You were just smelling what is called a lav, that's where humans release waste, it isn't a pleasant room on any airliner.

D-0 is on aircraft movement, it's not off the doors.

Finally, on time performance is better because schedules have been relaxed and there isn't a 2 day domino effect from 1 delay. It's a nice change of pace.
Too lazy to work, too scared to steal!
 
WayexTDI
Posts: 1168
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Re: Spirit Had the Most On-Time Performances in North America Again

Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:56 pm

BobbyPSP wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
BobbyPSP wrote:

It’s doesnt take long to dump a lav. It’s a little awkward on the A32X type due to fuselage height vs say an RJ but it’s not a hard nor time consuming.

If by RJ you mean CRJ & ERJ (135-140-145), remember they have recirculating toilets, which must be dumped and refilled one by one.
On the A320Family, it's a vacuum system; so, only 1 tank to empty, I believe the clean water tank can be refilled at the same time. So, it's most likely quicker; and Ground Support have trucks that reach the belly of the planes, making it easy to empty the tank.


What does this add? Seriously we’re talking about being able to dump a lav on a turn

Because it's quicker to service a single point (such as in the vacuum system) vs having to service multiple points (such as in recirculating toilets).
So, the longer it takes to service the lav, the longer the aircraft might have to stay on the ground (if servicing time exceeds deboarding-cleaning-boarding process).

You're comparing A320 and RJ; you're comparing 2 different systems, with 2 very different processes.
Basically, you're comparing apples to oranges.
 
BobbyPSP
Posts: 345
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2004 12:29 pm

Re: Spirit Had the Most On-Time Performances in North America Again

Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:06 am

WayexTDI wrote:
BobbyPSP wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
If by RJ you mean CRJ & ERJ (135-140-145), remember they have recirculating toilets, which must be dumped and refilled one by one.
On the A320Family, it's a vacuum system; so, only 1 tank to empty, I believe the clean water tank can be refilled at the same time. So, it's most likely quicker; and Ground Support have trucks that reach the belly of the planes, making it easy to empty the tank.


What does this add? Seriously we’re talking about being able to dump a lav on a turn

Because it's quicker to service a single point (such as in the vacuum system) vs having to service multiple points (such as in recirculating toilets).
So, the longer it takes to service the lav, the longer the aircraft might have to stay on the ground (if servicing time exceeds deboarding-cleaning-boarding process).

You're comparing A320 and RJ; you're comparing 2 different systems, with 2 very different processes.
Basically, you're comparing apples to oranges.


I've done both.... on the same day :) Yes it's easier on the RJ however unless a manpower issue, i.e., contracting for X amount of rampers and simply not enough hands on deck, it certainly can be completed on a normal 320 turn.

I think we might have hit on why it wasn't done: manpower
 
Iloveboeing
Posts: 415
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 11:02 am

Re: Spirit Had the Most On-Time Performances in North America Again

Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:23 am

32andBelow wrote:
Spirit flights board so fast cus there’s very few roller bags.


Exactly! The other airlines should add hefty fees for carry-on luggage so that people aren't bringing the kitchen sink and the rest of the loot into the cabin. They should either check the bag or not bring it at all.

NK has the right idea; discouraging most carry-ons and charging for the ones that do come onboard speed up the boarding and de-boarding processes and allow for timely departures and arrivals. This is why NK is faster and more efficient.

The rest of the plane and the airline shouldn't have to suffer because a few elitists can't wait 10 minutes at the baggage claim.
 
TwinStarRocket
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2018 7:24 pm

Re: Spirit Had the Most On-Time Performances in North America Again

Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:17 pm

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
Wacker1000 wrote:
PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
2) How many airlines today risk getting in the "low" category when they hold a plane for more than 15 minutes to allow connecting passengers to make their flights? I can't imagine that it is more cost effective to put people up in a hotel because waiting one additional minute means the flight isn't "on-time".


That logic is flawed. So you hold the flight and depart 1 minute late - at what point does that spiral into 10 or 15 minutes because "it is only 10 minutes"? On time becomes "ehh close enough". The gate agent that is not privy to the departure or landing slot may not see it as an issue but now you are waiting for the next slot and take an even larger delay. What about the 20 people that will now miss their connection because you held the flight for 1 person? What about the arriving flight that is waiting for the gate to empty? It spirals into a completely unmanageable mess and you put dozens of people into a hotel for the evening instead of one.

If a carrier wants a fighting chance at success they need to figure this out - you are either on time or you are not. If these numbers are true, Spirit knows what the masses want - an inexpensive ticket for an on time flight. Kudos to them.


You missed my point. A plane that departs 14 minutes behind schedule is "on-time", but at 15 minutes and one second, it's late. Those aren't my stats, that's the way the system works. And we're talking here about connecting flights, not originating flights. If weather delays a number of passengers to a connecting flight that is the only one of the day, do you hold the plane past the point of "on-time"? Or do you send it just to get an on-time departure and let the passengers fend for themselves? That's what I'm asking for - where is the cut-off point?

If Spirit is doing well at its primary mission, and is making money simultaneously, great! Good for them - keep it up! But I don't have all the info on this examination.


This isn't correct. We, I'm a Captain for Spirit, are given no buffer on departure times from the DOT. We measure D0 (Departures with 0 minutes to spare) and A14 (Arrivals from scheduled plus 14 minutes). A departure that is D14 is 14 minutes late. An arrival that is A14 is 'on-time'. An arrival that is A15 is 1 minute late.

Our FltOps monitors connections, late arrivals, early departures, etc and does a 'greater good' calculation for holding flights or pushing on-time.

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