In recent years Eleftherios Venizelos International Airport (ATH) have increased significantly after the economic crisis of 2009. Aegean Airlines has had a good performance as a regional airline both in services since it has received awards as the best regional airline by Skytrax in several years and has remained profitable since 2013 without presenting losses. They have reinforced their route network thanks also to alliance with Star Alliance

Long Range operations have increased considerably in ATH
Delta Airlines increased the capacity of its two daily flights from JFK with Airbus A330
Air Canada increased Toronto and Montreal from daily flights to 9 times a week both routes
https://twitter.com/Airlineroute/status/1071186205553778688
American Airlines for the summer of 2019 launches its services from ORD
Air China eliminates the scale in MUC and the flight is now without direct scale from PEK
Scoot launches flights from SIN
Emirates launches the route DXB-ATH-EWR
In addition to the arrival of new airlines such as Oman Air and Royal Air Maroc

Aegean Airlines has orders from the Airbus A320 / A321neo family, Aegean could opt for wide-body aircraft such as the Airbus A330-800neo or Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner that would be optimal for its long-range operations in its possible future

Possible destinations for its long-range operations would be EWR, IAD, DEL, BKK, SIN, YYYZ, YUL, ORD, JNB which are strong Star Alliance territories where many connections would be offered

I think we have discussed the subject numerous times. The consensus in the forum is that Aegean will not take the risks to buy a longhaul aircraft. They have recently order neos but they hinted nothing about longhaul.

Which carrier is taking major portion of longhaul routes? How is TK performing? I remember people from Greece at a Mad-Ist flight as well

For the millionth time, Aegean has repeatedly stated they're not interested in long haul. The closest thing you're gonna get is the A321LR if they even choose to order it, which itself doesn't seem all that likely

They could become the new Hellenic Imperial Airways!

oh, wait a minute...........

Per Aegean CEO earlier this year during signing of more narrowbodies.

Gerogiannis said there’s no immediate prospect of Aegean entering the long-haul market on routes once served by Olympic, though that’s something that may be considered going into next decade.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source= ... 2589736828

Interviewed the CEO earlier this year. I'll have an answer for you in the next week or so in my article.

deleted as posted in wrong thread!

People always speak about Aegean but I think ATH is not ready for that either. I was there last week and even in winter time the airport is extremely busy. They did some renovations which help but they are not enough. Terminal looked worn out and quite frankly outdated.

If Athens wants to move forward and to become a strong hub then they need to actual invest in their facilities. I did notice that the satellite terminal is being used which is great.

I have always wondered if ATH could have been what IST is now had OA the resources to grow and become a major international airline? It is obvious that ship has sailed. However I could see A3 using ATH to connect to the Balkans and Caucasus region to rest of their route structure using their A320 fleet

georgiabill wrote:

I have always wondered if ATH could have been what IST is now had OA the resources to grow and become a major international airline? It is obvious that ship has sailed. However I could see A3 using ATH to connect to the Balkans and Caucasus region to rest of their route structure using their A320 fleet

Never! Just look at the population size of both counties, their GDP and their economy and you will see that there is no way on earth Athens could have matched Istanbul or become the regional hub.

Greece’s best days in the 90’s and 00’s were on borrowed money remember? Turkey’s economy whilst unstable has been based on tangible assets rather than borrowed money.

vinniewinnie wrote:

georgiabill wrote:

I have always wondered if ATH could have been what IST is now had OA the resources to grow and become a major international airline? It is obvious that ship has sailed. However I could see A3 using ATH to connect to the Balkans and Caucasus region to rest of their route structure using their A320 fleet

Never! Just look at the population size of both counties, their GDP and their economy and you will see that there is no way on earth Athens could have matched Istanbul or become the regional hub.

Greece’s best days in the 90’s and 00’s were on borrowed money remember? Turkey’s economy whilst unstable has been based on tangible assets rather than borrowed money.

Athens is already a hub, a much smaller one than IST but still a respectable one. Aegean has a solid network that's growing every year.

As a frequent Aegean flyer, I do not see A3 get into long haul or wide body AC. The current Athens airport is nice, but it is not optimised for long haul transit market. Almost all Athens long haul passengers are destined to Greece, mostly VFR and tourist crowd. The structure for a home grown long haul carrier is not there.

However, I can see a scenario that Aegean could pick up 2 to 3 A330 frames when the relatively new second hand frames are cheaper than A321NEO. In that case A3 may pick up the A330 for market like LHR and CDG. Other than that, I think A321 can do the jobs A3 needed now.

LAXintl wrote:

Per Aegean CEO earlier this year during signing of more narrowbodies.

Gerogiannis said there’s no immediate prospect of Aegean entering the long-haul market on routes once served by Olympic, though that’s something that may be considered going into next decade.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source= ... 2589736828

For their sake, other than A321LR, I hope they avoid long haul. If they buy A321LRs and long haul doesn't work out, they reconfigure.

Widebodies are a good way to bankruptcy for well focused airlines. An airline needs a hub for widebodies today (in my opinion). Yes, there will be focus cities and aircraft shuttled from a hub for long haul. But a high O&D hub is essential.


Lightsaber

Well to be honest with A3 charging billionaire fares everyday to London and back, they can afford to have a high density A330 on this route!

I remember the 'good old days' on this route with Olympics A340! Really good days!

Blerg wrote:

vinniewinnie wrote:

georgiabill wrote:

I have always wondered if ATH could have been what IST is now had OA the resources to grow and become a major international airline? It is obvious that ship has sailed. However I could see A3 using ATH to connect to the Balkans and Caucasus region to rest of their route structure using their A320 fleet

Never! Just look at the population size of both counties, their GDP and their economy and you will see that there is no way on earth Athens could have matched Istanbul or become the regional hub.

Greece’s best days in the 90’s and 00’s were on borrowed money remember? Turkey’s economy whilst unstable has been based on tangible assets rather than borrowed money.

Athens is already a hub, a much smaller one than IST but still a respectable one. Aegean has a solid network that's growing every year.

Aegean/Ath has no comparatif advantage other than being a tourist hub! (Which can be bypassed for many islands) Ex Athens there is just not that much high-yielding traffic to make Athens a long haul hub! Thus yes potential growth is very limited!

vinniewinnie wrote:

Blerg wrote:

vinniewinnie wrote:

Never! Just look at the population size of both counties, their GDP and their economy and you will see that there is no way on earth Athens could have matched Istanbul or become the regional hub.

Greece’s best days in the 90’s and 00’s were on borrowed money remember? Turkey’s economy whilst unstable has been based on tangible assets rather than borrowed money.

Athens is already a hub, a much smaller one than IST but still a respectable one. Aegean has a solid network that's growing every year.

Aegean/Ath has no comparatif advantage other than being a tourist hub! (Which can be bypassed for many islands) Ex Athens there is just not that much high-yielding traffic to make Athens a long haul hub! Thus yes potential growth is very limited!

And how many cities in Europe have non-stop, scheduled flights to the Greek islands? Not many and Aegean knows that. Furthermore, Aegean has been busy promoting its service between Europe and the Middle East. With the exception of Tehran the rest seems to be performing quite alright.
But if there aren't enough high-yielding passengers to make long-haul work then how come the airport has so many flights to North America? Asian carriers left Athens, not necessarily because the market is poor but rather because the MEB3 plus TK have been aggressively expanding there.

Like I wrote above, Athens is already a mini-hub that's growing at its own pace. Obviously the potential has to be somewhere there. I am not saying they will become the next DXB or SIN but they can easily become a medium sized player. After all, look at WAW, their location isn't particularly great either (on top of being sandwiched between FRA, CPH, HEL and SVO) yet they managed to find a market that works for them.

Blerg wrote:

And how many cities in Europe have non-stop, scheduled flights to the Greek islands? Not many and Aegean knows that..

Well, to take just the UK,
Belfast, Birmingham, Bristol, Edinburgh, East Midlands (Derby/Leicester/Nottingham), Glasgow, Liverpool, Manchester, Newcastle, Leeds/Bradford, London (multiple airports). That;s flights by British Airways, Easyjet, Ryanair, and Jet2 (yes, they're an airline that sells holidays rather than a holiday company with an inhouse airline)
If you add in the semi-charter airlines TUI UK and Thomas Cook, you can include Aberdeen, Doncaster-Sheffield, Cardiff, Norwich, Exeter and Bournemouth, and these companies will still sell you one way tickets, not just package holidays..
Now not all islands are served from all airports, obviously, but Aegean only connect 3 UK cities to Athens in 2019 (Edinburgh, London, Manchester)

Aegean has absolutely no need to invest money in long-haul fleet, a project comparable to shooting themselves in the foot. The same can be said about Copa. Those airlines have their own niche within a market reachable with the narrow bodies. Additionally, ATH has all relevant intercontinental destinations served by foreign careers.

I don't see Wide-body in their operations anytime soon. BUT, A321XLR would be the only contender for longer flights. It could only reach few cities in North East Coast America. New York, Boston, DC, Toronto. And it could cover the entire African continent, Middle East, South Asia and some Southeast Asian cities like BKK. As long as they kept it light.

Although, I don't see much demand apart from some rich Middle Eastern cities and major North American Cities.

Andy33 wrote:

Blerg wrote:

And how many cities in Europe have non-stop, scheduled flights to the Greek islands? Not many and Aegean knows that..

Well, to take just the UK,
Belfast, Birmingham, Bristol, Edinburgh, East Midlands (Derby/Leicester/Nottingham), Glasgow, Liverpool, Manchester, Newcastle, Leeds/Bradford, London (multiple airports). That;s flights by British Airways, Easyjet, Ryanair, and Jet2 (yes, they're an airline that sells holidays rather than a holiday company with an inhouse airline)
If you add in the semi-charter airlines TUI UK and Thomas Cook, you can include Aberdeen, Doncaster-Sheffield, Cardiff, Norwich, Exeter and Bournemouth, and these companies will still sell you one way tickets, not just package holidays..
Now not all islands are served from all airports, obviously, but Aegean only connect 3 UK cities to Athens in 2019 (Edinburgh, London, Manchester)

Yes and there is much more to Europe than the UK. Not to mention that Aegean offers far more flexibility as they have several daily departures to the islands.

A3 is a mini-Ethiopian of sorts; it, like ET, has built a solid niche for itself in the Star Alliance. While A3 is not a behemoth (LH) or a quasi-behemoth (SK), it has grown to be a dependable carrier with an attractive loyalty programme that ferries people in and around Greece and Southeastern Europe, with high service standards along the way. It is not a hopeless carrier like Croatia Airlines which really doesn't know what to do in the Star Alliance. No wonder A3 has been winning the Skytrax Best European Regional Airline award for years. It doesn't need a radical change in its fleet strategy. There is no need for anything bigger than the A321LR. The best we can expect is an A321 to DXB.

Another A3 Longhaul thread I thought we must be due one !

Nothing has changed . Not happening. A330’s are being considered if rumours are to be believed. These would serve stations such as LHR and key Mid Haul where capacity would demand.

As the CEO stated they have no desire to tap into old state owned Olympics former Longhaul network as that was 90% a loss and state funded by pumping millions in each year until its closure.

There is a reason A3 are doing well and not going into things they shouldnt is a big part of it.


Recent financial update:


27 November 2018

Nine-Month 2018 Trading Update

10.8 million passengers and 13% net earnings growth AEGEAN announces 2018 9-month results with consolidated revenue at €939.3m, 5% higher than 2017. Pre-tax earnings rose 14% to €115.8m and net earnings after tax were up 13% to €80.9m.

https://en.about.aegeanair.com/media-ce ... hnou-2018/

VTCIE wrote:

A3 is a mini-Ethiopian of sorts; it, like ET, has built a solid niche for itself in the Star Alliance. While A3 is not a behemoth (LH) or a quasi-behemoth (SK), it has grown to be a dependable carrier with an attractive loyalty programme that ferries people in and around Greece and Southeastern Europe, with high service standards along the way. It is not a hopeless carrier like Croatia Airlines which really doesn't know what to do in the Star Alliance. No wonder A3 has been winning the Skytrax Best European Regional Airline award for years. It doesn't need a radical change in its fleet strategy. There is no need for anything bigger than the A321LR. The best we can expect is an A321 to DXB.

OU was totally and utterly destroyed on the coast while Aegean managed to defend its market from so many local and international competitors. They are truly a well managed airline.

I think a wise move down the road would be to cooperate more closely with ET. A320neo could easily make it to ADD, after all, I think ET flies its B737 to IST.

Blerg wrote:

Andy33 wrote:

Blerg wrote:

And how many cities in Europe have non-stop, scheduled flights to the Greek islands? Not many and Aegean knows that..

Well, to take just the UK,
Belfast, Birmingham, Bristol, Edinburgh, East Midlands (Derby/Leicester/Nottingham), Glasgow, Liverpool, Manchester, Newcastle, Leeds/Bradford, London (multiple airports). That;s flights by British Airways, Easyjet, Ryanair, and Jet2 (yes, they're an airline that sells holidays rather than a holiday company with an inhouse airline)
If you add in the semi-charter airlines TUI UK and Thomas Cook, you can include Aberdeen, Doncaster-Sheffield, Cardiff, Norwich, Exeter and Bournemouth, and these companies will still sell you one way tickets, not just package holidays..
Now not all islands are served from all airports, obviously, but Aegean only connect 3 UK cities to Athens in 2019 (Edinburgh, London, Manchester)

Yes and there is much more to Europe than the UK. Not to mention that Aegean offers far more flexibility as they have several daily departures to the islands.

Europe - Greek Islands traffic is going to boom over the next few years. Ultimately that is the reason why Fraport got the management of those airports. It has already grown a lot in the last few years after Fraport took over. Airports like Santorini or Mykonos are dumps and have enormous potential to multiply the number of routes. That is why you already see Ryanair in Santorini or Qatar in Mykonos.

Of course Aegean will always have a role because there are so many small islands that is not feasible to connect all of them with Porto or Valencia (where Aegean flies to).

Btw Germany is the 1st source of tourists to Greece, while the UK is 2nd (in the case of Spain, UK is 1st and Germany 2nd).

SCQ83 wrote:

Btw Germany is the 1st source of tourists to Greece, while the UK is 2nd (in the case of Spain, UK is 1st and Germany 2nd).

Let the showdown of claiming sunbeds with towels commence

HarrisDPO wrote:

Let the showdown of claiming sunbeds with towels commence

Do you mean this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPPwjvwgXAg

It is well known that tour operators and hotels (whether it is Greece or Spain) cannot make British and Germans sharing the same facilities, because disputes or fights arise. You can see this very easily in a place like Palma, where Brits are West of Palma (Magaluf) and Germans East of Palma (Arenal).

The only place they share is the airport!

The only justification I could see for getting into longhaul would be some misdirected sense of national pride. The modern world of treaties and open skies has long eliminated the importance of every country having its own longhaul carrier.

I would be curious to see the stat's, but I'd be willing to bet that the number of foreigners entering the country, from longhaul distance, vastly outnumbers Greeks leaving for far-flung destinations. Even if you're a well-off Greek, how much do you really feel like leaving the country when your own country is already one of the world's most beautiful places?

I also really can't envision a company like Aegean successfully pitching itself against the likes of American, Air Canada, United. They can afford to fly seasonally, when the demand is there. Aegean could never do that. What would they do with a longhaul fleet in the off-season? Similarly, I can't see them effectively competing with the connecting traffic brought in by the European majors. And, then there's the ME3 to deal with too.

I really like Aegean, and I hope they continue to do what they do, and continue to do it well. I hope they find ways to slowly and steadily grow. For the foreseeable future, I hope that they do not "bet the company" on widebodies.

There wasn't a bigger money loser for Olympic Airways than their long haul routes, North America, Asia an even Australia. I don't think Aegean wants to go the same way as Olympic.

If A3 wish to try long ( er ) haul, A321NEO's will be all they need, and look east such as DEL and / or BOM. I'm surprised they don't serve DXB already.

TC957 wrote:

If A3 wish to try long ( er ) haul, A321NEO's will be all they need, and look east such as DEL and / or BOM. I'm surprised they don't serve DXB already.

I don't think they can compete with Emirates which offers a far superior product. Don't forget that Aegean's planes have a relatively tight seatpitch and no dedicated business class seating. By launching Dubai they would be carrying those who are after the cheapest deal on the market.

At one point they considered launching AUH but nothing became of it in the end.

Blerg wrote:

TC957 wrote:

If A3 wish to try long ( er ) haul, A321NEO's will be all they need, and look east such as DEL and / or BOM. I'm surprised they don't serve DXB already.

I don't think they can compete with Emirates which offers a far superior product. Don't forget that Aegean's planes have a relatively tight seatpitch and no dedicated business class seating. By launching Dubai they would be carrying those who are after the cheapest deal on the market.

At one point they considered launching AUH but nothing became of it in the end.

But they can compete with Pegasus for the Dubai market . lots of pax connect with pegasus from Europe I've done it twice then gave up . at least with Aegean you get a full and free luggage ..

From my point of view it is very difficult to spread wings between two giant hubs like Rome and Istanbul. Aegean has to submit to reality and be regional.

Blerg wrote:

TC957 wrote:

If A3 wish to try long ( er ) haul, A321NEO's will be all they need, and look east such as DEL and / or BOM. I'm surprised they don't serve DXB already.

I don't think they can compete with Emirates which offers a far superior product. Don't forget that Aegean's planes have a relatively tight seatpitch and no dedicated business class seating. By launching Dubai they would be carrying those who are after the cheapest deal on the market.

At one point they considered launching AUH but nothing became of it in the end.

Indeed thd Gulf carriers have ATH pretty much sewn up between them so very little scope there.

OGLOBAL wrote:

Blerg wrote:

TC957 wrote:

If A3 wish to try long ( er ) haul, A321NEO's will be all they need, and look east such as DEL and / or BOM. I'm surprised they don't serve DXB already.

I don't think they can compete with Emirates which offers a far superior product. Don't forget that Aegean's planes have a relatively tight seatpitch and no dedicated business class seating. By launching Dubai they would be carrying those who are after the cheapest deal on the market.

At one point they considered launching AUH but nothing became of it in the end.

But they can compete with Pegasus for the Dubai market . lots of pax connect with pegasus from Europe I've done it twice then gave up . at least with Aegean you get a full and free luggage ..

I might be wrong but I think Pegasus has a much lower cost structure than Aegean and unlike in Athens, Emirates isn't that successful in SAW. Furthermore, Pegasus probably has a much larger O&D market on which to rely in order to boost its yield.

Aegean's overall cost might be relatively competitive but I think Greek government taxes are also a heavy burden that's restricting their growth.

But it is still puzzling that A3, does not code-share on UA's EWR-ATH flight. You would think that if they don't want to do long-haul, at least code-share on your partner's flight.

They do, on the AC trips. But I suspect there is some "bad blood" between A3 and UA preventing this. In fact, they don't code share on any of each other's flights.

Freshside3 wrote:

But it is still puzzling that A3, does not code-share on UA's EWR-ATH flight. You would think that if they don't want to do long-haul, at least code-share on your partner's flight.

They do, on the AC trips. But I suspect there is some "bad blood" between A3 and UA preventing this. In fact, they don't code share on any of each other's flights.

I just checked and they sell A3-AC connections via Athens while there is nothing for United and Newark. With Aegean's feed in Athens, I am sure United could have kept a few weekly flights throughout the winter season.