https://en.globes.co.il/en/article-el-a ... 1001264150

Starting June 2019.

Only 1x weekly, but still a very interesting addition. After MIA, BOS and SFO I thought surely ORD would be next before anything else.

Of course the €250,000 grant helps make sense of this.
The Israeli Minister of Tourism is quoted saying there are hopes this flight will draw US tourists from the surrounding states. Not sure I agree with this assumption, but good luck to LY.

The announcement also includes that the airline will begin SFO.

dafuq

This makes no sense. I can’t believe ORD still doesn’t get TLV, there must be something going on behind the scenes.

The Sheldon Adelson Express...

I find it interesting that they chose the most "sinful" city to add to a country that is widely accepted as the Holy capital of the world.

On another note, is 1x weekly even profitable? I can't imagine a whopping 564 round trip passengers can make enough money to cover all the costs of operating the flight. I'm sure the grant will be used to cover the loss.

What

Fargo wrote:

This makes no sense. I can’t believe ORD still doesn’t get TLV, there must be something going on behind the scenes.

I'm almost positive you're correct. As much as I love LAS, it's hard to believe the demand is greater than ORD.

I don’t get this one at all...LAS before ORD? Unless LY wants the B788 for that route.

As said earlier, Sheldon Adelson, Sheldon Adelson, Sheldon Adelson, that would be my guess on the something behind the scenes (without any evidence, I have to qualify). His influence on US/Israel relations is undeniable. especially since the 2016 election. This will be a nice little pick me up for his casinos. I don't know if his companies have business interests in Israel also but I suppose that's possible.

Is €250,000 all LAS has to throw at an airline for them to start mynute service? So much more potential in ORD, PHL, hell maybe even the PNW.

tkoenig95 wrote:

Is €250,000 all LAS has to throw at an airline for them to start mynute service? So much more potential in ORD, PHL, hell maybe even the PNW.

Actually, the grant is not even from LAS, it's from the Israeli government, which further hints at something "behind the scenes".

Very odd if I may say so. Can't make sense of it other than aforementioned explanations of a behind the scenes scenario.

Ok everyone how about a little less conspiracy theory and a little more aviation info. <eyeroll>

The incentive is offered by the Israeli MOT to any carrier inaugurating a route not currently served from TLV.

The reason they are likely launching LAS before ORD is that they needed a city where a single frequency (to balance other less-than-weekly allocations) might be a reasonable start point.

1x / weekly would 1000% not work for ORD, when and if.

I understand the desire to find an ulterior motive but please let’s not be that kind of community.

-G

Always fun watching how religious morals hold up when they're pitted against cold hard cash.

They are trying to corner the market before Qatar starts in 20 years

LAS is very popular among Israeli tourists who use the LAX flights, this will be a big hit and is projected to get more frequencies once the route matures, as for ORD, all I can say is wait and see what happens.

It's not conspiracy theory to think that Sheldon Adelson was very heavily involved in the route, it would be smart business from someone who has been very successful, and who has a direct line with any Israeli government official he wants, right up to the very top.

It is speculation, but that is very different than eye rolling conspiracy theory.

winginit wrote:

Always fun watching how religious morals hold up when they're pitted against cold hard cash.

I was unaware that visiting Vegas was somehow forbidden. Pray tell?

shadez wrote:

The Sheldon Adelson Express...

No doube Sheldon's company presence and influence has a lot to do with that route. However, like previously mentioned, ORD, or any other cities, could not have been served with only 1x weekly and receive the grant Israeli Govt. would give to LY.

That said, excited to see another Dreamliner operator in LAS.

winginit wrote:

Always fun watching how religious morals hold up when they're pitted against cold hard cash.

While gambling and strippers are fun, people also go to Vegas to go to the Grand Canyon, Zion National Park, Area 51 conspiracy nuts, NW Arizona, etc... Plus (my personal favorite) any celebrity chef thats a celebrity chef has a restaurant on the Strip, so it's also known for fine dining.

aviationjunky wrote:

I find it interesting that they chose the most "sinful" city to add to a country that is widely accepted as the Holy capital of the world.

On another note, is 1x weekly even profitable? I can't imagine a whopping 564 round trip passengers can make enough money to cover all the costs of operating the flight. I'm sure the grant will be used to cover the loss.

Most European (and I can't see why Israelis would be different) tourists visit Las Vegas just because it is a famous / kitsch city. As others have mentioned, it is usually mixed with LAX and/or SFO and as a gateway to the Grand Canyon, Mojave or the Death Valley.

In addition, tourism to Israel goes both ways. This flight might get some Christian tours from Nevada and surrounding areas going to the Holy Land.

winginit wrote:

Always fun watching how religious morals hold up when they're pitted against cold hard cash.

No direct co-relation....If you want, there's enough to do in Vegas apart from gambling and the Crazy Horse...as proof I can offer yours truly. Didn't want to go. Was arm twisted by the missus and friends...ended up having an awesome time

Gabrielz wrote:

Ok everyone how about a little less conspiracy theory and a little more aviation info. <eyeroll>

The incentive is offered by the Israeli MOT to any carrier inaugurating a route not currently served from TLV.

The reason they are likely launching LAS before ORD is that they needed a city where a single frequency (to balance other less-than-weekly allocations) might be a reasonable start point.

1x / weekly would 1000% not work for ORD, when and if.

I understand the desire to find an ulterior motive but please let’s not be that kind of community.

-G

Very well said. I was thinking the same thing. So members of the A.net community please spare us the various conspiracy theories or political machinations or Trump/Adelson bashing.

winginit wrote:

Always fun watching how religious morals hold up when they're pitted against cold hard cash.

I know some very religious people who go to Vegas every other year, for a week, and don't drink or gamble. I didn't believe it until I saw it with my own eyes, but they truly use it as a way to see shows, hike in the desert, use it as a base for other area sites, hand out by the pools, and eat very, very well. Not a splash of alcohol or the bet of a single dollar in sight. Sounds miserable to me, but they love it.

aviationjunky wrote:

I find it interesting that they chose the most "sinful" city to add to a country that is widely accepted as the Holy capital of the world.

On another note, is 1x weekly even profitable? I can't imagine a whopping 564 round trip passengers can make enough money to cover all the costs of operating the flight. I'm sure the grant will be used to cover the loss.

Theres no way Las Vegas could be considered holy .....and Tel Aviv is more of a business city

If you look at the schedule you will see that they are taking a Dreamliner that would normally sit on the ground from Friday morning till Sunday in TLV for the sabbath and are utilizing it over the weekend, makes sense to test the market and see how it goes, and the 250k kicker will at least help at the gas pump for the few first flights

It sure would be nice if an alliance would let LY in so that a trip of this magnitude would at least get you some good miles.

winginit wrote:

Always fun watching how religious morals hold up when they're pitted against cold hard cash.

Not all Israelis are fundamentalist or socially conservative. Huge numbers of Israelis are highly secular. Indeed, Zionism originated among secular Jews.

In addition, Las Vegas isn't JUST gambling. Plus there is gambling in a massive number of US cities other than Las Vegas; why is Vegas "worse" in terms of "purity" than, say, Detroit (which has 3 casinos) or anywhere in Illinois (which also has casinos, albeit riverboats if I remember correctly)?

StudiodeKadent wrote:

In addition, Las Vegas isn't JUST gambling. Plus there is gambling in a massive number of US cities other than Las Vegas; why is Vegas "worse" in terms of "purity" than, say, Detroit (which has 3 casinos) or anywhere in Illinois (which also has casinos, albeit riverboats if I remember correctly)?

Las Vegas is considered "worse" because of the 166 casinos inside county limits, the open container laws that allow for public drinking and intoxication, legal prostitution just outside of county limits, access to drugs, legalization of marijuana, little-to-no "last call" bars, etc. The list can literally go on forever. Las Vegas is like it's own little world.

shadez wrote:

The Sheldon Adelson Express...

Yes I believe that is the name of the new 787 that will be operating the route....

aviationjunky wrote:

I find it interesting that they chose the most "sinful" city to add to a country that is widely accepted as the Holy capital of the world.

On another note, is 1x weekly even profitable? I can't imagine a whopping 564 round trip passengers can make enough money to cover all the costs of operating the flight. I'm sure the grant will be used to cover the loss.

I think you are confusing Jerusalem and Tel Aviv. Jerusalem is considered the Holy Capital, Tel Aviv is probably more of a business, pharmaceutical capital than a Holy city and its also a tourists destination as well.

However I do agree with you I don't see how 1x weekly can be profitable. I don't see LY allowing the pilots and FA's to remain on the ground in Las Vegas for a week. If this is the case they would have to fly them to LAX and/or SFO on a U.S. carrier and vice versa to get a crew back to LAS to operate LAS-TLV. Even if by some means LY does allow the crew to remain in Vegas for an entire week the cost associated with housing and covering the crews per diem would have to calculated into the cost. I'm not sure if LY's pilots or FA's are unionized but if they stay in Vegas I'm sure they won't be staying at Motel 6. If there isn't enough demand to justify 3x weekly flights then they should just continue with LAX and SFO and hold off on LAS until the demand for 3x weekly if there.

jayunited wrote:

aviationjunky wrote:

I find it interesting that they chose the most "sinful" city to add to a country that is widely accepted as the Holy capital of the world.

On another note, is 1x weekly even profitable? I can't imagine a whopping 564 round trip passengers can make enough money to cover all the costs of operating the flight. I'm sure the grant will be used to cover the loss.

I think you are confusing Jerusalem and Tel Aviv. Jerusalem is considered the Holy Capital, Tel Aviv is probably more of a business, pharmaceutical capital than a Holy city and its also a tourists destination as well.

However I do agree with you I don't see how 1x weekly can be profitable. I don't see LY allowing the pilots and FA's to remain on the ground in Las Vegas for a week. If this is the case they would have to fly them to LAX and/or SFO on a U.S. carrier and vice versa to get a crew back to LAS to operate LAS-TLV. Even if by some means LY does allow the crew to remain in Vegas for an entire week the cost associated with housing and covering the crews per diem would have to calculated into the cost. I'm not sure if LY's pilots or FA's are unionized but if they stay in Vegas I'm sure they won't be staying at Motel 6. If there isn't enough demand to justify 3x weekly flights then they should just continue with LAX and SFO and hold off on LAS until the demand for 3x weekly if there.

The flight arrives in LAS at 1115 on Fridays and departs Saturday night at 2345, 36 hours on the ground. The same crew should be able to operate the return flight.

The weekly flights will leave Ben Gurion airport on Friday mornings at 7 am and arrive at 11.15 am in Las Vegas after a 14 hours 15 minutes flight. The return flight will leave Las Vegan on Saturday nights at 11.45 pm and arrive in Israel on Sunday at 10.15 pm after a 13 hours 30 minutes flight.

winginit wrote:

Always fun watching how religious morals hold up when they're pitted against cold hard cash.

Please show the Torah prohibitions on gambling and drinking? The Talmud takes a dim view of gambling, but that's not the same as prohibition. As for drinking, there is no ban, but there is concern about excessive drinking and under what circumstances.

As for the other things in Vegas that are more adult, adults of all faiths (including faith in nothing) make their own decisions, right or wrong. There are also non adult activities in Vegas.

But if the goal of your post was to imply that people of faith are hypocrites, please continue.

Sheldon Adelson has two 747SPs and an A340-500. Forget El Al, he could p. much start up the route by himself.

Adelson probably....but the biggest factor will potentially be vacations. Plenty of comfortably off Israelis looking for a secure vacation location after all.

Las Vegas, the entertainment (not just gambling) capital of the world with almost guaranteed sun year-round. Plenty of British heading that way nowadays too, and they aren't all gamblers. Sheldon will want them in his hotels, spending at bars and high end eateries.

Of course LY serves NYC and Miami and those cities are not exactly bastions of righteousness.

aviationjunky wrote:

I find it interesting that they chose the most "sinful" city to add to a country that is widely accepted as the Holy capital of the world.

On another note, is 1x weekly even profitable? I can't imagine a whopping 564 round trip passengers can make enough money to cover all the costs of operating the flight. I'm sure the grant will be used to cover the loss.

Tel Aviv is not Jerusalem. It have some of the most beautiful beaches and vibrant downtown.

aviationjunky wrote:

StudiodeKadent wrote:

In addition, Las Vegas isn't JUST gambling. Plus there is gambling in a massive number of US cities other than Las Vegas; why is Vegas "worse" in terms of "purity" than, say, Detroit (which has 3 casinos) or anywhere in Illinois (which also has casinos, albeit riverboats if I remember correctly)?

Las Vegas is considered "worse" because of the 166 casinos inside county limits, the open container laws that allow for public drinking and intoxication, legal prostitution just outside of county limits, access to drugs, legalization of marijuana, little-to-no "last call" bars, etc. The list can literally go on forever. Las Vegas is like it's own little world.

I hope you don't believe what you just wrote. You would have to be the world's biggest idiot if you believe that Vegas is the only place in the US that has easily accessible drugs. There at least 50 cities in the lower 48 alone, that within an hour of arriving, I could get my hands on an 8 ball of coke. There are 6 different countries in Europe that I can do the same.
Last time I was in Amsterdam, I could window shop for hookers. Not to mention that the majority of states have legalized medical marijuana while 10-15 states have legalized recreational marijuana. Yes, Las Vegas is it's own world. However, my short time in Bahrain, I could do the same damn things there that I can in just about any major city in the US, sans casinos......

Here are the flight times according to routesonline.com

LY021 TLV0700 – 1115LAS 789 5
LY022 LAS2245 – 2215+1TLV 789 6

Will they seriously keep the Dreamliner at LAS on the ground for 35 hours ?

cityshuttle wrote:

Here are the flight times according to routesonline.com

LY021 TLV0700 – 1115LAS 789 5
LY022 LAS2245 – 2215+1TLV 789 6

Will they seriously keep the Dreamliner at LAS on the ground for 35 hours ?

Either way they would keep it on the ground in TLV, as it falls exactly on Shabbat on which LY doesn't fly.

Viper911

cityshuttle wrote:

Here are the flight times according to routesonline.com

LY021 TLV0700 – 1115LAS 789 5
LY022 LAS2245 – 2215+1TLV 789 6

Will they seriously keep the Dreamliner at LAS on the ground for 35 hours ?

I guess that layover will allow the same crew to operate the flight back to TLV.

So LY has to set up their special security for 1 flight a week?

aviationjunky wrote:

I find it interesting that they chose the most "sinful" city to add to a country that is widely accepted as the Holy capital of the world.

On another note, is 1x weekly even profitable? I can't imagine a whopping 564 round trip passengers can make enough money to cover all the costs of operating the flight. I'm sure the grant will be used to cover the loss.

I always thought that Washington DC was the most sinful city, given all the lies told there.

Sancho99504 wrote:

aviationjunky wrote:

StudiodeKadent wrote:

In addition, Las Vegas isn't JUST gambling. Plus there is gambling in a massive number of US cities other than Las Vegas; why is Vegas "worse" in terms of "purity" than, say, Detroit (which has 3 casinos) or anywhere in Illinois (which also has casinos, albeit riverboats if I remember correctly)?

Las Vegas is considered "worse" because of the 166 casinos inside county limits, the open container laws that allow for public drinking and intoxication, legal prostitution just outside of county limits, access to drugs, legalization of marijuana, little-to-no "last call" bars, etc. The list can literally go on forever. Las Vegas is like it's own little world.

I hope you don't believe what you just wrote. You would have to be the world's biggest idiot if you believe that Vegas is the only place in the US that has easily accessible drugs. There at least 50 cities in the lower 48 alone, that within an hour of arriving, I could get my hands on an 8 ball of coke. There are 6 different countries in Europe that I can do the same.
Last time I was in Amsterdam, I could window shop for hookers. Not to mention that the majority of states have legalized medical marijuana while 10-15 states have legalized recreational marijuana. Yes, Las Vegas is it's own world. However, my short time in Bahrain, I could do the same damn things there that I can in just about any major city in the US, sans casinos......

I wish this forum had upvotes. But yes, "upvotes for truth" applies here.

If LY was entirely based on "religious morals" then it wouldn't even fly to New York City (given how much sodomy, drug addiction, alcoholism and illegal gambling occurs there).

Las Vegas isn't much worse than NYC or LA or San Fran. Its just more honest.

yochai wrote:

LAS is very popular among Israeli tourists who use the LAX flights, this will be a big hit and is projected to get more frequencies once the route matures, as for ORD, all I can say is wait and see what happens.

I was told Spring, Summer or Fall 2019 ORD-TLV on the Dreamliner. Frequency?

aemoreira1981 wrote:

I don’t get this one at all...LAS before ORD? Unless LY wants the B788 for that route.

Hopefully UA will start a flight. Extremely surprised with IAD starting flights before ORD

Could this topic have any more unnecessary political, off topic, and insulting comments in it? Because of the topic being Israel this is allowed now?

StudiodeKadent wrote:

If LY was entirely based on "religious morals" then it wouldn't even fly to New York City (given how much sodomy, drug addiction, alcoholism and illegal gambling occurs there).

Wouldn't be able to take off from its home country either