jensona6
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Oman Allows El Al Israeli Airlines to fly over its airspace.

Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:23 pm

As mentioned, now El Al can legally fly over Omani Airspace without any intervention. Meanwhile a while back, Air India was granted to fly over Saudi Airspace for DEL-TLV-DEL flight, so can we expect Saudi Arabia to do the same for El Al and other Israeli carriers so that their flight time can be reduced? As currently BOM-TLV takes about 07h, the flight time and fuel consumption would be reduced to around 5h-6h, that will allow them to even use their 737-900ERs for that flight. What do you guys think?

Source of the article: https://www.google.co.in/amp/s/m.jpost. ... 573942/amp
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: Oman Allows El Al Israeli Airlines to fly over its airspace.

Mon Dec 10, 2018 4:56 pm

An interesting article. We'll see what comes of this.

From a route planner's perspective: I'm always glad to see relations between groups improve, but as far as Omani airspace is concerned, no El Al plane would ever come close to this nation, as it isn't on the way to anything from TLV that doesn't cross over Saudi Arabia or Iran, so it is entirely symbolic. I highly doubt Saudi Arabia or Iran will ever allow El Al to overfly their airspace, unless something dramatically changes in the region, But it's a good start, nonetheless.
 
LTCM
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Re: Oman Allows El Al Israeli Airlines to fly over its airspace.

Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:24 pm

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
An interesting article. We'll see what comes of this.

From a route planner's perspective: I'm always glad to see relations between groups improve, but as far as Omani airspace is concerned, no El Al plane would ever come close to this nation, as it isn't on the way to anything from TLV that doesn't cross over Saudi Arabia or Iran, so it is entirely symbolic. I highly doubt Saudi Arabia or Iran will ever allow El Al to overfly their airspace, unless something dramatically changes in the region, But it's a good start, nonetheless.


SA allowing El AI to overly their airspace is closer than you think. No more than 10 - 15 years from now.
 
MalevTU134
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Re: Oman Allows El Al Israeli Airlines to fly over its airspace.

Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:26 pm

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
An interesting article. We'll see what comes of this.

From a route planner's perspective: I'm always glad to see relations between groups improve, but as far as Omani airspace is concerned, no El Al plane would ever come close to this nation, as it isn't on the way to anything from TLV that doesn't cross over Saudi Arabia or Iran, so it is entirely symbolic. I highly doubt Saudi Arabia or Iran will ever allow El Al to overfly their airspace, unless something dramatically changes in the region, But it's a good start, nonetheless.

I was thinking the same, but on second thought: Oman also controls the airspace over the Strait of Hormuz. So, "all" that remains to get for LY is permission to overfly Iraq, and they could fly Israel -》 Jordan -》Iraq -》down the middle of the Persian Gulf -》 Oman (at the said Strait of Hormuz) and out into the Arabian Sea. While not direct, it should still shave an hour or two off flight times on TLV-BOM and TLV-BKK compared to going down the middle of the Red Sea, as is done today.
 
SCQ83
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Re: Oman Allows El Al Israeli Airlines to fly over its airspace.

Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:38 pm

Bibi travelled to Muscat a few weeks ago to meet Sultan Qabus. So there you go.
 
lancelot07
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Re: Oman Allows El Al Israeli Airlines to fly over its airspace.

Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:44 pm

Are Israel and Saudi Arabia not technically at war ?
 
Adipocere
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Re: Oman Allows El Al Israeli Airlines to fly over its airspace.

Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:47 pm

What’s with the fracas over flights between India and Israel? I am quite surprised that there are any flights at all. I can’t think of any cultural or business ties between these countries. The only thing I could find was a lost tribe in India from thousands of years ago - not very affluent and hardly enough to fill widebodies on two airlines. But I guess Israel will take any friends in the Muslim world.
 
rbavfan
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Re: Oman Allows El Al Israeli Airlines to fly over its airspace.

Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:52 pm

LTCM wrote:
PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
An interesting article. We'll see what comes of this.

From a route planner's perspective: I'm always glad to see relations between groups improve, but as far as Omani airspace is concerned, no El Al plane would ever come close to this nation, as it isn't on the way to anything from TLV that doesn't cross over Saudi Arabia or Iran, so it is entirely symbolic. I highly doubt Saudi Arabia or Iran will ever allow El Al to overfly their airspace, unless something dramatically changes in the region, But it's a good start, nonetheless.


SA allowing El AI to overly their airspace is closer than you think. No more than 10 - 15 years from now.


WOW only 10-15 years? What hat was that pulled out of?
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Oman Allows El Al Israeli Airlines to fly over its airspace.

Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:53 pm

Adipocere wrote:
What’s with the fracas over flights between India and Israel? I am quite surprised that there are any flights at all. I can’t think of any cultural or business ties between these countries. The only thing I could find was a lost tribe in India from thousands of years ago - not very affluent and hardly enough to fill widebodies on two airlines. But I guess Israel will take any friends in the Muslim world.

India is the 2nd most populous country in the world and is in track to be the first, as well as the largest democracy, growing middle class, and one of the largest economies in the world. Flying over KSA means its just a 6 hour flight from India to Israel. 2 powerful nations that geographically close are bound to have some need for air travel just based off of geography alone. Id even go out to say that SFO-PPT on UA is more of a waste of a plane than DEL/BOM-TLV.

Lastly, India isnt a Muslim country.
When wasn't America great?


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
YouGeeElWhy
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Re: Oman Allows El Al Israeli Airlines to fly over its airspace.

Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:07 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
Lastly, India isnt a Muslim country.
2nd most populous Muslim country. Don’t forget that.
 
george77300
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Re: Oman Allows El Al Israeli Airlines to fly over its airspace.

Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:23 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
Lastly, India isnt a Muslim country.


It absolutely is. Third largest in the world after Indonesia and Pakistan . 190 million Muslims.

Edit: YouGeeElWhy beat me to it.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Oman Allows El Al Israeli Airlines to fly over its airspace.

Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:26 pm

Doesn’t really work unless there’s also overflight over Saudi Arabia.
 
Gr8Circle
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Re: Oman Allows El Al Israeli Airlines to fly over its airspace.

Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:26 pm

Adipocere wrote:
What’s with the fracas over flights between India and Israel? I am quite surprised that there are any flights at all. I can’t think of any cultural or business ties between these countries. The only thing I could find was a lost tribe in India from thousands of years ago - not very affluent and hardly enough to fill widebodies on two airlines. But I guess Israel will take any friends in the Muslim world.


Wow, that's quite an uninformed comment.....there is a Jewish community in Western India that frequently travels back and forth to Israel......business ties have also been increasing over the years....Goa, on the west coast of India, is a popular tourist destination for Israelis....El Al has been operating to Mumbai for many years now, ever since diplomatic ties were established in the 90s ....AI has been operating to TLV on and off.....
 
Gr8Circle
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Re: Oman Allows El Al Israeli Airlines to fly over its airspace.

Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:29 pm

george77300 wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
Lastly, India isnt a Muslim country.


It absolutely is. Third largest in the world after Indonesia and Pakistan . 190 million Muslims.

Edit: YouGeeElWhy beat me to it.


It certainly isn't....it may have the third largest population of Muslims, but they are only about 15-20% of the total population......so, no.....India is not a Muslim country in the sense that you would refer to other countries like Pakistan or the Gulf countries, where Muslims form a majority of the population......
 
simfanatic
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Re: Oman Allows El Al Israeli Airlines to fly over its airspace.

Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:38 pm

Gr8Circle wrote:
george77300 wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
Lastly, India isnt a Muslim country.


It absolutely is. Third largest in the world after Indonesia and Pakistan . 190 million Muslims.

Edit: YouGeeElWhy beat me to it.


It certainly isn't....it may have the third largest population of Muslims, but they are only about 15-20% of the total population......so, no.....India is not a Muslim country in the sense that you would refer to other countries like Pakistan or the Gulf countries, where Muslims form a majority of the population......


To add to that, India is a multi-religious country. India is secular.
Don't be a fool, think about what you're writing!
 
FlyingSicilian
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Re: Oman Allows El Al Israeli Airlines to fly over its airspace.

Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:39 pm

India is not a "Muslim" country, it is a country with a large number of Islam practitioners in it, the third most actually. That would be like calling the USA a Spanish speaking country because it is the third largest number of Spanish speakers in it.

Israel has a booming tech sector and various ties to India in business and trade. Not sure why it surprises people there is a travel demand.
“Without seeing Sicily it is impossible to understand Italy.Sicily is the key of everything.”-Goethe "Journey to Italy"
 
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Slash787
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Re: Oman Allows El Al Israeli Airlines to fly over its airspace.

Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:52 pm

Indians need a stamped Israeli visa on their passport in order to visit Israel and many Indians do visit Dubai and other gulf so won't they have a problem in entering those gulf countries with a stamped Israeli visa?
 
VTORD
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Re: Oman Allows El Al Israeli Airlines to fly over its airspace.

Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:57 pm

Gr8Circle wrote:
Adipocere wrote:
What’s with the fracas over flights between India and Israel? I am quite surprised that there are any flights at all. I can’t think of any cultural or business ties between these countries. The only thing I could find was a lost tribe in India from thousands of years ago - not very affluent and hardly enough to fill widebodies on two airlines. But I guess Israel will take any friends in the Muslim world.


Wow, that's quite an uninformed comment.....there is a Jewish community in Western India that frequently travels back and forth to Israel......business ties have also been increasing over the years....Goa, on the west coast of India, is a popular tourist destination for Israelis....El Al has been operating to Mumbai for many years now, ever since diplomatic ties were established in the 90s ....AI has been operating to TLV on and off.....


+1 @Gr8Circle....My mother grew up next to Jewish neighbors whose son was a pilot in the Indian Airforce! There is also a Jewish center in Mumbai which was subject to the 2008 terror attacks. Plus there is considerable defense and technological interaction between the two countries. I personally know quite a few people who import tons of high-end imaging equipment from Israel. Plus there is a significant Christian population in India which would probably visit the Holy Land as well. That is just a shockingly ignorant comment about India!!
 
sixfootscream
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Re: Oman Allows El Al Israeli Airlines to fly over its airspace.

Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:01 pm

Slash787 wrote:
Indians need a stamped Israeli visa on their passport in order to visit Israel and many Indians do visit Dubai and other gulf so won't they have a problem in entering those gulf countries with a stamped Israeli visa?


No issues at all.
 
VTORD
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Re: Oman Allows El Al Israeli Airlines to fly over its airspace.

Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:02 pm

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
as far as Omani airspace is concerned, no El Al plane would ever come close to this nation, as it isn't on the way to anything from TLV that doesn't cross over Saudi Arabia or Iran,

Haven't mapped an actual route but based on Google Maps, the plane would cross Saudi Airspace over either Yemen or Oman.....
 
Galwayman
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Re: Oman Allows El Al Israeli Airlines to fly over its airspace.

Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:18 pm

If the Israelis were discrete and didn’t publicise it the Saudis would probably allow flights through their airspace
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Oman Allows El Al Israeli Airlines to fly over its airspace.

Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:52 pm

Israel and Saudi Arabia seem to have a mutual 'we are not your enemy' policy to each other. That's not to say they are best friends forever but right now they seem to be able to live as neighbours without any intention of bullets flying in the near future. If time passes, things remain stable, and trust increases then quite possible for (initially limited) air traffic rights to be granted mutually
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: Oman Allows El Al Israeli Airlines to fly over its airspace.

Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:56 pm

VTORD wrote:
PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
as far as Omani airspace is concerned, no El Al plane would ever come close to this nation, as it isn't on the way to anything from TLV that doesn't cross over Saudi Arabia or Iran,

Haven't mapped an actual route but based on Google Maps, the plane would cross Saudi Airspace over either Yemen or Oman.....


Actually, it isn't:

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=DEL-TLV&DU=mi&SU=kts&RS=best

Image

That surprised me too!

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/AIC139/history/20181208/1040Z/VIDP/LLBG

Even overflying the KSA, it's still a winding route

Image
 
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Slash787
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Re: Oman Allows El Al Israeli Airlines to fly over its airspace.

Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:56 pm

sixfootscream wrote:
Slash787 wrote:
Indians need a stamped Israeli visa on their passport in order to visit Israel and many Indians do visit Dubai and other gulf so won't they have a problem in entering those gulf countries with a stamped Israeli visa?


No issues at all.


Really? I had gone to Jordan and I thought to go Israel also but I would have needed an Israeli visa on my passport and I thought or well from what I heard that If I have an Israeli visa then I would have problems in entering Middle East countries.

So If I have an Israeli visa on my passport then will I be allowed enter Saudi Arabia, Iran, Kuwait and UAE ?
 
Jetty
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Re: Oman Allows El Al Israeli Airlines to fly over its airspace.

Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:08 pm

A common enemy (Iran) can make great friends. I wouldn’t be surprised if SA (and the GGC) would normalize relations with Israel somewhat and allow overflight rights. Would also serve SA well in appeasing US politicians after the Khashoggi fuckup.
 
sw733
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Re: Oman Allows El Al Israeli Airlines to fly over its airspace.

Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:14 pm

Slash787 wrote:
sixfootscream wrote:
Slash787 wrote:
Indians need a stamped Israeli visa on their passport in order to visit Israel and many Indians do visit Dubai and other gulf so won't they have a problem in entering those gulf countries with a stamped Israeli visa?


No issues at all.


Really? I had gone to Jordan and I thought to go Israel also but I would have needed an Israeli visa on my passport and I thought or well from what I heard that If I have an Israeli visa then I would have problems in entering Middle East countries.

So If I have an Israeli visa on my passport then will I be allowed enter Saudi Arabia, Iran, Kuwait and UAE ?


I think it depends on the country. I have entered UAE on a passport that also has an Israeli stamp in it, and didn't have any issue. Have done the same with Jordan, Egypt (both of which do recognize Israel), Oman, and Morocco. However, I would have my doubts about trying to enter Saudi Arabia, Iran, and Kuwait...I would use my other passport for those.
 
SCQ83
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Re: Oman Allows El Al Israeli Airlines to fly over its airspace.

Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:42 pm

Israel doesn't "stamp" passports on nationalities with visa on-arrival. No idea how it works for countries that need a pre-arranged visa. They give you a separate paper.
 
subramak1
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Re: Oman Allows El Al Israeli Airlines to fly over its airspace.

Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:51 pm

Adipocere wrote:
What’s with the fracas over flights between India and Israel? I am quite surprised that there are any flights at all. I can’t think of any cultural or business ties between these countries. The only thing I could find was a lost tribe in India from thousands of years ago - not very affluent and hardly enough to fill widebodies on two airlines. But I guess Israel will take any friends in the Muslim world.



See below

[
1. Military ties between India and Israel, India is the biggest importer of Israeli arms
2. Tourism ties, as a country with least level of anti semitism , India gets lot of Israeli backpackers especially to Goa and Northern Indian mountains. Indians visit Israel for tours to historical and religious sites
3. Trade - Both are hubs for Diamond Industry and technology majors

Thanks, Subu
 
subramak1
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Re: Oman Allows El Al Israeli Airlines to fly over its airspace.

Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:55 pm

george77300 wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
Lastly, India isnt a Muslim country.


It absolutely is. Third largest in the world after Indonesia and Pakistan . 190 million Muslims.

Edit: YouGeeElWhy beat me to it.


I think it would be more appropriate to say it is the country with third largest muslim population but population does not have a muslim characteristic. Officially India is secular

Subu
 
FlyHappy
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Re: Oman Allows El Al Israeli Airlines to fly over its airspace.

Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:23 pm

Adipocere wrote:
What’s with the fracas over flights between India and Israel? I am quite surprised that there are any flights at all. I can’t think of any cultural or business ties between these countries. The only thing I could find was a lost tribe in India from thousands of years ago - not very affluent and hardly enough to fill widebodies on two airlines. But I guess Israel will take any friends in the Muslim world.



I thought I'd take the liberty of perusing your prior posts before responding to this rather startling paragraph.
One wonders if you sincerely mean some of the things you've written or if perhaps you sometimes just want to provoke......

But as to a sincere reply - you've not looked very hard if you cannot find ties between Israel and India; they are quite significant, and in fact, there are surprising similarities between them, once you get beyond the surface.
 
Chaostheory
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Re: Oman Allows El Al Israeli Airlines to fly over its airspace.

Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:42 pm

Galwayman wrote:
If the Israelis were discrete and didn’t publicise it the Saudis would probably allow flights through their airspace


:checkmark:

The Israelis and Saudis have been in bed since the fall of the Shah in Iran.

Rumour has it that some Israeli missile batteries have already been procured for the Southern border.
 
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DarkSnowyNight
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Re: Oman Allows El Al Israeli Airlines to fly over its airspace.

Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:01 am

Chaostheory wrote:
Galwayman wrote:
If the Israelis were discrete and didn’t publicise it the Saudis would probably allow flights through their airspace


:checkmark:

The Israelis and Saudis have been in bed since the fall of the Shah in Iran.

Rumour has it that some Israeli missile batteries have already been procured for the Southern border.


Seriously guys?

Military may get away with that from time to time if there's a certain guarantee of reciprocity.

But commercial? That's a hard no. Getting caught doing something that stupid would be on the same level as intentionally violating ETOPS rules. If the airspace is closed, you don't fly it.
"Ya Can't Win, Rocky! There's no Oxygen on Mars!"
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fraspotter
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Re: Oman Allows El Al Israeli Airlines to fly over its airspace.

Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:17 am

SCQ83 wrote:
Israel doesn't "stamp" passports on nationalities with visa on-arrival. No idea how it works for countries that need a pre-arranged visa. They give you a separate paper.

Was about to say the same thing. Whether it is a visa on-arrival or a pre-arranged visa they will give you a separate piece of paper. You keep it in your passport while in Israel but can remove it later on if you travel to a country that could deny you entry for having an Israel stamp.
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amirs
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Re: Oman Allows El Al Israeli Airlines to fly over its airspace.

Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:45 am

LTCM wrote:

SA allowing El AI to overly their airspace is closer than you think. No more than 10 - 15 years from now.

https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/2018 ... relations/
Could be sooner that you think
 
OGLOBAL
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Re: Oman Allows El Al Israeli Airlines to fly over its airspace.

Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:44 am

fraspotter wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:
Israel doesn't "stamp" passports on nationalities with visa on-arrival. No idea how it works for countries that need a pre-arranged visa. They give you a separate paper.

Was about to say the same thing. Whether it is a visa on-arrival or a pre-arranged visa they will give you a separate piece of paper. You keep it in your passport while in Israel but can remove it later on if you travel to a country that could deny you entry for having an Israel stamp.


if you enter via egypt or jordan via land you will get the jordanian / egyptian stamp from a specific point of exit which leads to israel
 
ruskistl
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Re: Oman Allows El Al Israeli Airlines to fly over its airspace.

Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:27 am

India is a massive destination for young Israelis leaving the military. Most Israelis do intense backpack traveling for 6 months - year after finishing their service. The most popular destinations are India and South America.
 
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Spiderguy252
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Re: Oman Allows El Al Israeli Airlines to fly over its airspace.

Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:35 am

One step at a time.

I guess KSA does not allow El Al planes (unlike AI) because in the case of IRROPS it is fine to have an AI plane on the ground in a Saudi Airport. An El Al plane on the ground with the white Star of David emblazoned on its tail will be quite unsavoury for the Saudis at this point I'm sure....

Baby steps.
Vahroone
 
peterinlisbon
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Re: Oman Allows El Al Israeli Airlines to fly over its airspace.

Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:46 am

Spiderguy252 wrote:
One step at a time.

I guess KSA does not allow El Al planes (unlike AI) because in the case of IRROPS it is fine to have an AI plane on the ground in a Saudi Airport. An El Al plane on the ground with the white Star of David emblazoned on its tail will be quite unsavoury for the Saudis at this point I'm sure....

Baby steps.


What would be really awkward would be what to do with the passengers. Can you imagine all the families of Orthodox jews with Israeli passports wandering around a Saudi airport terminal? In reality, I suppose El Al could quickly send another plane to pick them up but now you'd have two El Al planes on the ground and the need for local mechanics to work on them.

Regarding Oman, it's good to have less airspace to fly around and more alternatives where they could land if necessary. I imagine this is useful for their India and Bangkok flights.
 
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Spiderguy252
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Re: Oman Allows El Al Israeli Airlines to fly over its airspace.

Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:49 am

peterinlisbon wrote:
What would be really awkward would be what to do with the passengers. Can you imagine all the families of Orthodox jews with Israeli passports wandering around a Saudi airport terminal?


Technically, isn't this the case on AI's DEL-TLV-DEL flights? As long as it's just a few pax and possibly on only one day of the year, it is part of the 'deal'. ;)

Unless you are insinuating that the pax in question solely fly El Al.
Vahroone
 
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LH748
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Re: Oman Allows El Al Israeli Airlines to fly over its airspace.

Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:40 am

EL AL's marketing also emphasizes that they do not fly over any country that is hostile to Israel so I'm not too sure if they would want to take a route over KSA even if they could. There's probably some loyal EL AL passengers that would not be too happy to be in Saudi airspace. Doesn't mean that the political climate could also change within the next decades but I would suspect that there's baby steps and no big developments. It's the Middle East after all
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Gr8Circle
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Re: Oman Allows El Al Israeli Airlines to fly over its airspace.

Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:07 pm

VTORD wrote:
Gr8Circle wrote:
Adipocere wrote:
What’s with the fracas over flights between India and Israel? I am quite surprised that there are any flights at all. I can’t think of any cultural or business ties between these countries. The only thing I could find was a lost tribe in India from thousands of years ago - not very affluent and hardly enough to fill widebodies on two airlines. But I guess Israel will take any friends in the Muslim world.


+1 @Gr8Circle....My mother grew up next to Jewish neighbors whose son was a pilot in the Indian Airforce! There is also a Jewish center in Mumbai which was subject to the 2008 terror attacks. Plus there is considerable defense and technological interaction between the two countries. I personally know quite a few people who import tons of high-end imaging equipment from Israel. Plus there is a significant Christian population in India which would probably visit the Holy Land as well. That is just a shockingly ignorant comment about India!!


VTORD, I wish you would check properly before posting......the "shocking" post was not mine.....it was someone else.....in fact, I responded to that post pretty much the same way you did, the only difference being that I responded to the correct person......please check before posting....
 
L410Turbolet
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Re: Oman Allows El Al Israeli Airlines to fly over its airspace.

Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:47 pm

amirs wrote:
LTCM wrote:

SA allowing El AI to overly their airspace is closer than you think. No more than 10 - 15 years from now.

https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/2018 ... relations/
Could be sooner that you think


Sputniknews? Seriously?
 
VTORD
Posts: 620
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:45 pm

Re: Oman Allows El Al Israeli Airlines to fly over its airspace.

Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:44 pm

Gr8Circle wrote:

VTORD, I wish you would check properly before posting......the "shocking" post was not mine.....it was someone else.....in fact, I responded to that post pretty much the same way you did, the only difference being that I responded to the correct person......please check before posting....


Sorry for rubbing you the wrong way mate.....I was actually agreeing with you!! That's why the +1 in agreement with you...i thought that was very clear...

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Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos