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maint123
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Another PW engined A320 neo has smoke in cabin emergency

Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:15 am

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... -i-454297/

https://m.economictimes.com/industry/tr ... 037765.cms

"NEW DELHI: In a close save for 136 passengers flying between Jaipur and Kolkata on an IndiGo flight, the cabin of the flight was filled with smoke due to engine bearing failure and had to make an emergency landing at Kolkata airport on Monday night.
Sources said that the crew also made a May Day call, when they were 45 miles from Kolkata.
“About 45 miles from Kolkata, the crew transmitted mayday call, smoke in the cockpit, cabin and lavatory. Did emergency landing, fortunately, safe landing and passengers were safely disembarked,” said a source, who did not want to be identified."

Another PW engine failure?
I get the feeling that with the scores of PW engine failures in the neo series, we are just waiting for a tragedy to finally take a call on these highly unreliable engines.
Indigo should ground all neo planes and sue for compensation. No point playing with lives of passengers for a defective PW supply.
 
Waterbomber
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Re: Another PW engined A320 neo has smoke in cabin emergency

Wed Dec 12, 2018 4:28 am

A working GTF is much more than a reliable planetary/epicyclic gear. Other parts of the engines also need to be adapted to accommodate the different requirements of the architecture. For instance the shafts rotate at higher speeds to achieve the benefits of the GTF architecture. Faster rotating shafts bring new requirements in terms of shaft and bearing design.
Bearing failure is a rare event in today's turbofan engines and is usually predictable and preventable thanks to chip detectors that are checked on a regular basis.
Until now, shaft bow has been recognised and addressed, but if bearings start failing, PW is going to face a very, very expensive problem.
 
maint123
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Re: Another PW engined A320 neo has smoke in cabin emergency

Wed Dec 12, 2018 4:49 am

Waterbomber wrote:
A working GTF is much more than a reliable planetary/epicyclic gear. Other parts of the engines also need to be adapted to accommodate the different requirements of the architecture. For instance the shafts rotate at higher speeds to achieve the benefits of the GTF architecture. Faster rotating shafts bring new requirements in terms of shaft and bearing design.
Bearing failure is a rare event in today's turbofan engines and is usually predictable and preventable thanks to chip detectors that are checked on a regular basis.
Until now, shaft bow has been recognised and addressed, but if bearings start failing, PW is going to face a very, very expensive problem.

In the last 1 year, their have been atleast 20 instances of neo planes flying on single engines because of PW engine failures.
At what point do the regulators take a call that enough is enough and ground the planes?
Are they waiting for both the engines to fail before taking action ?
Its not the job of the regulators to think about profitability of airlines/manufacturers. Their main job is safety.
We have already seen what happens when manufacturers and regulators become too close as in the Boeing and FAA case.
 
gokmengs
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Re: Another PW engined A320 neo has smoke in cabin emergency

Wed Dec 12, 2018 6:19 am

maint123 wrote:
Waterbomber wrote:
A working GTF is much more than a reliable planetary/epicyclic gear. Other parts of the engines also need to be adapted to accommodate the different requirements of the architecture. For instance the shafts rotate at higher speeds to achieve the benefits of the GTF architecture. Faster rotating shafts bring new requirements in terms of shaft and bearing design.
Bearing failure is a rare event in today's turbofan engines and is usually predictable and preventable thanks to chip detectors that are checked on a regular basis.
Until now, shaft bow has been recognised and addressed, but if bearings start failing, PW is going to face a very, very expensive problem.

In the last 1 year, their have been atleast 20 instances of neo planes flying on single engines because of PW engine failures.
At what point do the regulators take a call that enough is enough and ground the planes?
Are they waiting for both the engines to fail before taking action ?
Its not the job of the regulators to think about profitability of airlines/manufacturers. Their main job is safety.
We have already seen what happens when manufacturers and regulators become too close as in the Boeing and FAA case.

Going by your way of thinking how many other twins such as 737’s 777’s or 330’s had to fly and make a landing with one engine in the last 1 year? I am sure more than a handful, so you suggest we ground them as well? What do we have flying quads? Fine by my 380’s 747’s and 340’s here and there fine by me:)
Yaşa Mustafa Kemal Paşa Yaşa, Adın Yazılacak Mücevher Taşa
 
sciing
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Re: Another PW engined A320 neo has smoke in cabin emergency

Wed Dec 12, 2018 6:30 am

maint123 wrote:
In the last 1 year, their have been atleast 20 instances of neo planes flying on single engines because of PW engine failures.
At what point do the regulators take a call that enough is enough and ground the planes?

The Indian regulators grounded planes, so what is your point beside FUD??
 
RJMAZ
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Re: Another PW engined A320 neo has smoke in cabin emergency

Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:28 am

R.I.P to all the passengers on that flight that will die of cancer in the next few decades :tombstone:

An event such as this would multiply any persons chance of getting cancer.
 
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Siren
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Re: Another PW engined A320 neo has smoke in cabin emergency

Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:05 am

I have some old stats I found regarding PW failures on the Neos....from an AVHerald report. These stats come from India's DGCA:

http://avherald.com/h?article=4a4bb10d&opt=0
A320 neo aircraft with P & W 1100 G engines had series of failures with their operations after their induction worldwide. As of 31st July, 2017, details of premature removals of PW1100G engines worldwide are as follows:

- 26 Premature removals of engine due combustion chamber distress
- 77 Premature removals of engine due No.3 bearing distress
- Two Premature removals of engine due Main Gear Box failure


Does anyone have updated stats?
 
parapente
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Re: Another PW engined A320 neo has smoke in cabin emergency

Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:49 am

One must assume ( hope) that P&W have a handle on this with a full answer already in place both for new build and replacement or indeed they (and all the aircaft manufacturers using the engine -5?) will indeed get a ban.It really can't be that far off unless P&W have a full 'fix' plan in place and approved-in the same way RR has done for its coating issues on some T1000's.
As an aside.There have been major issues from all 3 engine OEM's with new engines recently.Perhaps the FAA should look to overhaul all their own requirements and procedures.Perhaps the present ones are out of date for the latest technology.We don't want consumers loosing confidence in them.
 
Asiaflyer
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Re: Another PW engined A320 neo has smoke in cabin emergency

Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:57 am

Which manufacturer is supplying the bearings for the P&W Neo engine?
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Another PW engined A320 neo has smoke in cabin emergency

Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:29 pm

This one they actually tried to sweep under the rug. Deleted initial tweet of suspected smoke. But several videos of the cabin filled with smoke showed up on social media. So DGCA has to open an investigation.
All posts are just opinions.
 
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BaconButty
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Re: Another PW engined A320 neo has smoke in cabin emergency

Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:44 pm

Smoke in the cabin incidents are quite common
https://www.visionsafe.com/recent-smoke ... it-events/
5 this month. Cause could be anything, for example:
On Nov 20th 2018 the airline reported the cause of the smell and light smoke was an engine detergent. The left engine had undergone specific maintenance, a compressor wash was subsequently conducted with the detergent to remove possible soiling from the compressor area. An engine run up was done, it appears however the detergent was more persistent and entered the air ducts.

Austrian Airlines 20/11

Even Melenia Trump got in on the act
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-45890939

Also, premature removal of an engine is not the same as engine failure. Clearly the entry into service of the PW1100G has been a bit of a balls up, but let'snot get hysterical.
Down with that sort of thing!
 
dynamo12
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Re: Another PW engined A320 neo has smoke in cabin emergency

Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:52 pm

What's all this business about boeing and the FAA?

The safety record of the US of flying is remarkable. People are far more likely to die driving than flying per mile traveled.

This is thanks to FAA and Boeing and other manufacturers and airlines.

When someone says ground all these planes (with almost no recent US fatalities under FAA's watch) and force people to drive long distance (much higher fatalities) they should be forced to bear the costs of the deaths this type of action results in.
 
NZ321
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Re: Another PW engined A320 neo has smoke in cabin emergency

Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:09 pm

All this sounds overblown reaction to me...
Plane mad!
 
dynamo12
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Re: Another PW engined A320 neo has smoke in cabin emergency

Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:23 pm

Just so we are 100% clear with the thread starters demands that people stop flying these unsafe planes and start driving - probably over 100,000 FATALITIES in india a YEAR from driving. Can you imagine if 100K people died each year in one country from flying? Yes, some risk here for sure that needs to be addressed, no question. But can folks people get a grip on the overall safety picture?

Finally, pilot error and maintenance issues remain the biggest risk to passenger safety on most flights.
 
Newbiepilot
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Re: Another PW engined A320 neo has smoke in cabin emergency

Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:38 pm

Before anyone talks about grounding airplanes they should know that There are very specific certification requirements. Failures do happen and are expected. Failure rates determine if a plane is safe. 1 in a billion per flight hour is the requirement for probability of a catastrophic failure. Propulsion rules aren’t quite the same as systems, but the logic from FAR 25.1309 still applies.

AC 25.1309–1 provides background for important concepts and issues within airplane system design and analysis.

Catastrophic failure condition rate
The circular provides a rationale for the upper limit for the Average Probability per Flight Hour for Catastrophic Failure Conditions of 1 x 10−9 or "Extremely Improbable".[5] Failure Conditions having less severe effects could be relatively more likely to occur; that is, an inverse relationship between severity and likelihood.

Fail-Safe Design Concept
This AC presents the FAA Fail-Safe Design Concept, which applies basic objectives pertaining to failures:

Failures of any system should be assumed for any given flight regardless of probability and such failures "should not prevent continued safe flight and landing" or otherwise significantly reduce safety
Subsequent failure during the same flight should also be assumed.
The AC lists design principles or techniques used to ensure a safe design. Usually, a combination of at least two safe design techniques are needed to provide a fail-safe design; i.e. to ensure that Major Failure Conditions are Remote, Hazardous Failure Conditions are Extremely Remote, and Catastrophic Failure Conditions are Extremely Improbable.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_25.1309-1

In general you can’t assume What the failure rate is and how the fault trees are built. If the airplane is not meeting the requirements in 25.1309, action must be taken based on the safety review process. That process could lead to grounding while a redesign, inspections, hard time replacements are developed, but it would be quite unusual. The types of failures we are seeing on the PW GTF should be covered in fault trees.

Most fault trees in the design process show probability of failure much less than 1x10^-9. -11 to -14 is more common, but you will have to go to the FAA or delegated representatives to get the exact numbers used in the certification plans and fault trees. One event usually doesn’t dramatically alter a fault tree, but we have a statistically significant number of shutdowns and other events.

I honestly hope the safety process and FARs are used in making such a decision like grounding a fleet instead of emotional responses by regulatory agencies.
 
imthedreamliner
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Re: Another PW engined A320 neo has smoke in cabin emergency

Wed Dec 12, 2018 3:20 pm

World wide grounding of NEO coming soon
 
pugman211
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Re: Another PW engined A320 neo has smoke in cabin emergency

Wed Dec 12, 2018 3:22 pm

imthedreamliner wrote:
World wide grounding of NEO coming soon



Correction - only PW Neo's........If it happens which I doubt it will.
 
estorilm
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Re: Another PW engined A320 neo has smoke in cabin emergency

Wed Dec 12, 2018 3:33 pm

Ouch - housecleaning on posts in here.. that took a while to write. :(

In summary - let's clarify that this doesn't have anything to do with the air frame (if anything, they are getting absolutely KILLED on deliveries with problems like this). The LEAP engines are fine, albeit also slow on deliveries.

In fact, this issue may not have anything to do with the GTF - as others have mentioned, bearings can go bad on many engines. Smoke issues on many aircraft very often. Of course it's a little disconcerting that this is a low-hour new design. It must be stressed that this is NOT part of the warp/seal issues we've seen in the past (as far as I know) and bearings can fail for a number of reasons.

There really aren't many technical details out there about what happened yet.

With that being said, the elephant in the room here is the "sources indicated" part of the second OP article. How exactly is it that this news source has information on the exact part failure inside of the engine less than 24hr after the plane landed? Hopefully they're not just going off forum posts and such - the comment about "bleed air" specifically sounds like something these media outlets would grab from a forum. I mean they could be right for all I know, but how exactly do they have the info?
 
FriscoHeavy
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Re: Another PW engined A320 neo has smoke in cabin emergency

Wed Dec 12, 2018 3:43 pm

Oh no! Did the A320NEO go too far? Should Airbus have developed a brand new clean sheet design?

:lol:

I kid of course.
Whatever
 
7673mech
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Re: Another PW engined A320 neo has smoke in cabin emergency

Wed Dec 12, 2018 3:48 pm

dynamo12 wrote:
What's all this business about boeing and the FAA?

The safety record of the US of flying is remarkable. People are far more likely to die driving than flying per mile traveled.

This is thanks to FAA and Boeing and other manufacturers and airlines.

When someone says ground all these planes (with almost no recent US fatalities under FAA's watch) and force people to drive long distance (much higher fatalities) they should be forced to bear the costs of the deaths this type of action results in.


He's a know it all troll with an anti-American adgenda.

Already jumping to conclusions before all the facts are gathered.
 
WIederling
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Re: Another PW engined A320 neo has smoke in cabin emergency

Wed Dec 12, 2018 4:45 pm

RJMAZ wrote:
R.I.P to all the passengers on that flight that will die of cancer in the next few decades :tombstone:

An event such as this would multiply any persons chance of getting cancer.

it adds risk. It does not multiply.
Murphy is an optimist
 
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unrave
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Re: Another PW engined A320 neo has smoke in cabin emergency

Wed Dec 12, 2018 4:53 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
This one they actually tried to sweep under the rug. Deleted initial tweet of suspected smoke. But several videos of the cabin filled with smoke showed up on social media. So DGCA has to open an investigation.

Fact Check: That tweet hasn't been deleted.
17April2019: RIP Jet Airways
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Another PW engined A320 neo has smoke in cabin emergency

Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:04 pm

Real world fact about the deleted tweet.

Tweet by @Shukla_tarun
IndiGo has deleted its statement that landing was because of "suspected" smoke.

https://twitter.com/shukla_tarun/status ... 9396831232

Nothing on @IndiGo6E twitter feed either.
All posts are just opinions.
 
Etheereal
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Re: Another PW engined A320 neo has smoke in cabin emergency

Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:42 pm

sciing wrote:
maint123 wrote:
In the last 1 year, their have been atleast 20 instances of neo planes flying on single engines because of PW engine failures.
At what point do the regulators take a call that enough is enough and ground the planes?

The Indian regulators grounded planes, so what is your point beside FUD??

Ignore him.
 
Waterbomber
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Re: Another PW engined A320 neo has smoke in cabin emergency

Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:51 pm

I've been on a birdstrike event on take-off on a Ryanair flight.
Light smoke appeared mid-cabin during the initial climb and then the smell of burned chicken. I knew enough but still pointed it out to the first FA passing by, just to make sure they had noticed it too. The flight continued to destination.

A smoke event of this magnitude that is not an actual fire is most certainly not electrical, but most probably engine oil getting into the cabin air.
ECAM messages can already give a first good clue and so will the chip detectors.

Bearing failures are not common but they can occur. The CFM56 and V2500 had their fair share of bearing issues. It was mostly due to bad batches of bearings failing prematurely.

But the Indigo A320neo fleet is very very young and hasn't flown a lot yet due to other issues. For a premature failure, this is very very premature.

To be continued...
 
RJMAZ
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Re: Another PW engined A320 neo has smoke in cabin emergency

Thu Dec 13, 2018 1:28 am

Waterbomber wrote:
Bearing failures are not common but they can occur. The CFM56 and V2500 had their fair share of bearing issues. It was mostly due to bad batches of bearings failing prematurely.

But the Indigo A320neo fleet is very very young and hasn't flown a lot yet due to other issues. For a premature failure, this is very very premature.

To be continued...

Ever since the first Pratt GTF problems appeared I kept saying the problems were most likely due to adding a huge heavy gearbox at one end of the shaft.

Balancing a shaft with a gearbox attached that has so many moving parts would be difficult and I believe is the biggest risk of the design.

Seals and bearings failing all point to a shaft that is out of balance. Or we could just keep listening to Pratt for years that they keep getting bad batches of bearings/seals.

People on here wonder why a company such as Pratt would be having so many problems with something as simple as seals and bearings. You've gotta start looking at what new things have changed.

It could be something as simple as the bearings are undersized to take into account the gearbox. They underesrimated the vibration it would cause. If the GTF family shares a common bearing size the lower thrust models would be less effected. This looks bad for future growth of the GTF to power future A321XLR models. It might need a small redesign to fit larger bearings on the high thrust models. I dont know what Pratt could do to the existing engines, besides increasing maintenance.
 
GRIVely
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Re: Another PW engined A320 neo has smoke in cabin emergency

Thu Dec 13, 2018 3:39 am

It could also be caused by unknowingly using substandard bearings with fraudulent documentation. That is an all too frequent problem in military aviation today when so many projects are sourced from multiple vendors worldwide. These sub performing components are extremely difficult to detect since in many cases it would require destructive testing to confirm. Even worse, you usually don’t even get a lower price for the dodgy quality.

Now if they were knowingly using substandard components that would be a much different issue.
 
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DocLightning
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Re: Another PW engined A320 neo has smoke in cabin emergency

Thu Dec 13, 2018 4:52 am

gokmengs wrote:
Going by your way of thinking how many other twins such as 737’s 777’s or 330’s had to fly and make a landing with one engine in the last 1 year?


A few. But, as I get tired of pointing out, the number of aircraft in service is relevant. In late 2015, Allegiant had as many in-flight incidents as Delta, as many people liked to crow at those complaining about Allegiant's safety record.

But when you consider that Delta's fleet is 800+ and Allegiant's 80+, suddenly, that gets much more relevant. Allegiant had a rate ten times that of Delta.

It is the *rate* of engine incidents that is relevant. Now, we don't know what went wrong. It could have been a maintenance problem or a simple quality control manufacturing defect. Remember the Trent 900 that went kablooie for QF? There was nothing wrong with the design. But the *rate* at which PW1000G engine problems have cropped up is troubling.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
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marcelh
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Re: Another PW engined A320 neo has smoke in cabin emergency

Thu Dec 13, 2018 5:06 am

FriscoHeavy wrote:
Oh no! Did the A320NEO go too far? Should Airbus have developed a brand new clean sheet design?

:lol:

I kid of course.

The engine IS a clean sheet design.... :duck:
 
N212R
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Re: Another PW engined A320 neo has smoke in cabin emergency

Thu Dec 13, 2018 5:35 am

RJMAZ wrote:
Ever since the first Pratt GTF problems appeared I kept saying the problems were most likely due to adding a huge heavy gearbox at one end of the shaft.

Balancing a shaft with a gearbox attached that has so many moving parts would be difficult and I believe is the biggest risk of the design.

Seals and bearings failing all point to a shaft that is out of balance. Or we could just keep listening to Pratt for years that they keep getting bad batches of bearings/seals.

People on here wonder why a company such as Pratt would be having so many problems with something as simple as seals and bearings. You've gotta start looking at what new things have changed.

It could be something as simple as the bearings are undersized to take into account the gearbox. They underesrimated the vibration it would cause. If the GTF family shares a common bearing size the lower thrust models would be less effected. This looks bad for future growth of the GTF to power future A321XLR models. It might need a small redesign to fit larger bearings on the high thrust models. I dont know what Pratt could do to the existing engines, besides increasing maintenance.


Thanks for spelling out the "real" deal with the GTF. So much of the noise (or lack thereof) you get on this site comes with built in bias for reasons diverse and various.
 
gokmengs
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Re: Another PW engined A320 neo has smoke in cabin emergency

Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:27 am

DocLightning wrote:
gokmengs wrote:
Going by your way of thinking how many other twins such as 737’s 777’s or 330’s had to fly and make a landing with one engine in the last 1 year?


A few. But, as I get tired of pointing out, the number of aircraft in service is relevant. In late 2015, Allegiant had as many in-flight incidents as Delta, as many people liked to crow at those complaining about Allegiant's safety record.

But when you consider that Delta's fleet is 800+ and Allegiant's 80+, suddenly, that gets much more relevant. Allegiant had a rate ten times that of Delta.

It is the *rate* of engine incidents that is relevant. Now, we don't know what went wrong. It could have been a maintenance problem or a simple quality control manufacturing defect. Remember the Trent 900 that went kablooie for QF? There was nothing wrong with the design. But the *rate* at which PW1000G engine problems have cropped up is troubling.

Thanks for the detailed reply, I took that into consideration while responding, ratio plays a big role on determining the capacity of the problem, I just find the cry for extreme measures such as "ground the 737 max or P&W Neo's" a tad bit dramatic. PW needs to get their act in order for sure.
Yaşa Mustafa Kemal Paşa Yaşa, Adın Yazılacak Mücevher Taşa
 
JoeCanuck
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Re: Another PW engined A320 neo has smoke in cabin emergency

Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:50 am

RJMAZ wrote:
Waterbomber wrote:
Bearing failures are not common but they can occur. The CFM56 and V2500 had their fair share of bearing issues. It was mostly due to bad batches of bearings failing prematurely.

But the Indigo A320neo fleet is very very young and hasn't flown a lot yet due to other issues. For a premature failure, this is very very premature.

To be continued...

Ever since the first Pratt GTF problems appeared I kept saying the problems were most likely due to adding a huge heavy gearbox at one end of the shaft.

Balancing a shaft with a gearbox attached that has so many moving parts would be difficult and I believe is the biggest risk of the design.

Seals and bearings failing all point to a shaft that is out of balance. Or we could just keep listening to Pratt for years that they keep getting bad batches of bearings/seals.

People on here wonder why a company such as Pratt would be having so many problems with something as simple as seals and bearings. You've gotta start looking at what new things have changed.

It could be something as simple as the bearings are undersized to take into account the gearbox. They underesrimated the vibration it would cause. If the GTF family shares a common bearing size the lower thrust models would be less effected. This looks bad for future growth of the GTF to power future A321XLR models. It might need a small redesign to fit larger bearings on the high thrust models. I dont know what Pratt could do to the existing engines, besides increasing maintenance.


Pratt did a lot more than just slap a gearbox on to an existing engine. Everything is all new. My seat of the pants guess is that it's not so much the gearbox itself, but the fact that the LP spool is spinning 3 times faster. They increased the pressure ratio for sure, and probably tried out some exotic materials and manufacturing techniques. I seem to recall that the core runs hotter, but I don't have any specific information about that.

There may very well be some problems that the gearbox is creating or exacerbating, but to me...the gearbox is the one thing that actually seems to be working.
What the...?
 
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FrenchPotatoEye
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Re: Another PW engined A320 neo has smoke in cabin emergency

Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:22 am

marcelh wrote:
FriscoHeavy wrote:
Oh no! Did the A320NEO go too far? Should Airbus have developed a brand new clean sheet design?

:lol:

I kid of course.

The engine IS a clean sheet design.... :duck:


Engines wouldn't be engines if they didn't have teething troubles. Over time, Pratt has the financial muscle to ensure the GTF family is one of the most reliable and best performing engines in the air.

Everything clean sheet has troubles. Even now, Rolls are struggling with the 787 engines.
 
maint123
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Re: Another PW engined A320 neo has smoke in cabin emergency

Thu Dec 13, 2018 2:40 pm

I know this is a US heavy and modded forum but don't the experts here find 7 to 8 NEW engines failing every month troubling?
Would such a failure rate be acceptable in a Russian or Chinese engine?
This is a serious safety issue and everyone is just twiddling their thumbs and hoping for the best.
2 engined passenger planes being forced to fly single engined on a regular basis is not acceptable from any angle.
Why is no one in India lodging a public interest litigation for grounding these defective PW engined planes?
 
deltal1011man
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Re: Another PW engined A320 neo has smoke in cabin emergency

Thu Dec 13, 2018 2:44 pm

maint123 wrote:
I know this is a US heavy and modded forum but don't the experts here find 7 to 8 NEW engines failing every month troubling?
Would such a failure rate be acceptable in a Russian or Chinese engine?
This is a serious safety issue and everyone is just twiddling their thumbs and hoping for the best.
2 engined passenger planes being forced to fly single engined on a regular basis is not acceptable from any angle.
Why is no one in India lodging a public interest litigation for grounding these defective PW engined planes?

because they aren't dumb anti-US trolls like others?
 
imthedreamliner
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Re: Another PW engined A320 neo has smoke in cabin emergency

Thu Dec 13, 2018 5:51 pm

World wide NEO grounding coming soon
 
avier
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Re: Another PW engined A320 neo has smoke in cabin emergency

Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:20 pm

I'm sure western engine/aircraft manufacturers ask the airlines to keep shut on these incidents to avoid negative PR. That's why we see the airlines avoiding providing details and it's usually the Safety Regulator who will come up with some investigation conclusion.

There are worldwide issues with PW GTF , 787 engines , maybe others like MAX too, who knows. But a lot won't surface out.

imthedreamliner wrote:
World wide NEO grounding coming soon


You a nutcase to repeat yourself like this?
 
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unrave
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Re: Another PW engined A320 neo has smoke in cabin emergency

Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:01 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Real world fact about the deleted tweet.

Tweet by @Shukla_tarun
IndiGo has deleted its statement that landing was because of "suspected" smoke.

https://twitter.com/shukla_tarun/status ... 9396831232

Nothing on @IndiGo6E twitter feed either.


This tweet obviously doesn't exist:
https://twitter.com/IndiGo6E/status/1072384074000592896

The tweet obviously doesn't talk about the incident being discussed in this thread.
17April2019: RIP Jet Airways
 
maint123
Topic Author
Posts: 396
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 4:18 pm

Re: Another PW engined A320 neo has smoke in cabin emergency

Fri Dec 14, 2018 4:48 pm

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/smoke-t ... ai-rum=off

"Smoke Kept Getting Thicker": Horror Onboard Jaipur-Kolkata IndiGo FlightRead InBengali বাংলা
All India Written by Vishnu Som
IndiGo, India's largest airline, confirmed that a serious engine problem had resulted in the buildup of smoke inside the cabin of the jetliner, a brand new type plagued by serious engine failures.
Updated : December 12, 2018 21:53 IST
IndiGo flight 6E-237 from Jaipur to Kolkata made an emergency landing after smoke filled the cabin

Story Highlights
The IndiGo flight made an emergency landing after smoke filled the cabin
IndiGo confirmed engine problem led to the buildup of smoke
Airlines operating the A-320neo have been facing a number of issues
New Delhi: "It smelt like a burning heater" says Subhomoy Halder, a 16-year-old Class 10 student who was onboard IndiGo 6E-237 on Monday evening, an Airbus A-320neo flight between Jaipur and Kolkata.
The teenager was not flying alone. His parents were with him when something went dreadfully wrong inside the aircraft.

"There was smoke everywhere. And it was getting thicker by the minute... At one stage, it was so strong, that our eyes started to hurt," he says.


The problem began "about 25 minutes before the flight was to land" says the teenager.

"The pilot had announced that the flight was about to land. Then I smelt something burning and the cabin was looking foggy."


Today, IndiGo, India's largest airline, confirmed that a serious engine problem had resulted in the buildup of smoke inside the cabin of the jetliner, a brand new type plagued by serious engine failures.


"The smoke development was due to oil leakage going through the air system" says the airline adding, "there was no fire on board."

Be that as it may, smoke is a known killer in civil aviation and onboard the A-320neo, passengers were clearly in discomfort.

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Oxygen masks, which deploy in the event of a drop in cabin pressure, had not dropped down. Neither are these designed to filter out smoke completely. That can only be done by the full face masks that pilots wear up in the cockpit in the event of a smoke or fire emergency.

"There was a baby in the back and they used an oxygen cylinder to help the baby" says Subhomoy. Videos of the incident corroborate this account. A flight attendant can be seen carrying a portable oxygen cylinder. A baby can be clearly heard bawling in the background.

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As the smoke in the cabin intensified, "the air hostesses told us to cover our faces and noses."

"They told us not to get off our seats and to stay calm. Just before landing, they told us to cooperate with them," Subhomoy says.

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But the ordeal of the 136 passengers onboard was hardly over.

Passengers in the back of the Airbus, including Subhamoy and his parents had to be evacuated through the emergency chute.

"There were fire tenders all round," he says. Passengers were put onto buses and taken away to the terminal.


The IndiGo A-320neo involved in the emergency landing in Kolkata remains grounded and will have its engine replaced.

This is the latest in a series of problems encountered by airlines operating the A-320neo equipped with new generation Pratt and Whitney engines designed to provide unprecedented fuel efficiency. In March this year, India's aviation watchdog, the Directorate General of Civil Aviation, had grounded eleven Airbus A-320neo airliners, eight of which were being operated by IndiGo.

"We were very scared" says Subhomoy. "As a student, I wondered if I would be able to fulfil my dreams. I did think that there could be an accident."
 
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BawliBooch
Posts: 1475
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Re: Another PW engined A320 neo has smoke in cabin emergency

Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:45 am

sciing wrote:
maint123 wrote:
In the last 1 year, their have been atleast 20 instances of neo planes flying on single engines because of PW engine failures.
At what point do the regulators take a call that enough is enough and ground the planes?

The Indian regulators grounded planes, so what is your point beside FUD??


There were 2 separate incidents on Indigo flights the last week. So clearly the indian regulators have not grounded A320NEO aircraft with PW engines.

Atleast till the investigation is complete, they should. Its a huge issue putting thousands of passengers at risk everyday. :(
Mr.Kapoor's favorite poodle!
 
Newbiepilot
Posts: 3641
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2016 10:18 pm

Re: Another PW engined A320 neo has smoke in cabin emergency

Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:02 am

BawliBooch wrote:
sciing wrote:
maint123 wrote:
In the last 1 year, their have been atleast 20 instances of neo planes flying on single engines because of PW engine failures.
At what point do the regulators take a call that enough is enough and ground the planes?

The Indian regulators grounded planes, so what is your point beside FUD??


There were 2 separate incidents on Indigo flights the last week. So clearly the indian regulators have not grounded A320NEO aircraft with PW engines.

Atleast till the investigation is complete, they should. Its a huge issue putting thousands of passengers at risk everyday. :(



Ministry has taken serious note (of the incident) and we will review it on Tuesday,” Civil Aviation Secretary R N Choubey said in response to a PTI query.

He was asked whether the ministry will direct the aircraft maker Airbus and US-based engine manufacturer Pratt & Whitney to stop deliveries unless all issues are fixed.


https://www.livemint.com/Companies/P0Kj ... oud-b.html

Questions are being asked. We will see what the DGCA does.

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