n6238p
Posts: 426
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Re: AM 737 collides with drone at TIJ

Sat Dec 15, 2018 6:32 pm

ELBOB wrote:

There's no reason they couldn't change to a 6 degree glideslope*


Actually there’s a million reasons why they can’t starting with it’s dangerous as f***.

Anything over 4 degrees on anything but a calm wind day is assholes and elbows the whole way down. Let’s not talk about anything we don’t know about.
To actively root against anybody is just low, and I hope karma comes back at you with a vengeance
 
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Tugger
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Re: AM 737 collides with drone at TIJ

Sat Dec 15, 2018 6:35 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
And if nothing is done to stop those drones from being that close to airport, 2 drones will be flown one each into the engines of a plane with the same result.

I never said it would absolutely definitely crash a plane; I was countering your "it'll do nothing to the plane" comment.
Basically, it's somewhere in the middle.


Well we don't consider two failures, even for bird strike. So its irrelevant as far as I'm concerned.

Thanks for basically agreeing with me: a flock of drone hitting an aircraft can take it down in the same manner as a flock of bird can.
It's unfortunately just a matter of time until it happens.

What you describe is a wholly different thing than what potentially happened in this case (still not confirmed the cause).

What you are describing is a terrorist attack.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
Productivity isn’t about getting more things done, rather it’s about getting the right things done, while doing less. - M. Oshin
 
kalvado
Posts: 1993
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Re: AM 737 collides with drone at TIJ

Sat Dec 15, 2018 7:55 pm

Tugger wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:

Well we don't consider two failures, even for bird strike. So its irrelevant as far as I'm concerned.

Thanks for basically agreeing with me: a flock of drone hitting an aircraft can take it down in the same manner as a flock of bird can.
It's unfortunately just a matter of time until it happens.

What you describe is a wholly different thing than what potentially happened in this case (still not confirmed the cause).

What you are describing is a terrorist attack.

Tugg

Why, just a seasonal migration of drones from China to US...
 
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Tugger
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Re: AM 737 collides with drone at TIJ

Sun Dec 16, 2018 7:46 pm

Has there been any more information on this?

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
Productivity isn’t about getting more things done, rather it’s about getting the right things done, while doing less. - M. Oshin
 
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Gocaclleta
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Re: AM 737 collides with drone at TIJ

Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:33 pm

It's very fortunate that this didn't result in any injuries or fatalities. However this should really be a sign and some common sense that people shouldn't be flying drones so close to airport spaces. Another incident like this may not be as forgiving.
 
Armodeen
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Re: AM 737 collides with drone at TIJ

Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:30 pm

Wacker1000 wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
Thanks for basically agreeing with me: a flock of drone hitting an aircraft can take it down in the same manner as a flock of bird can.
It's unfortunately just a matter of time until it happens.


Those migratory flocks of drones are a bear to avoid..... :banghead:

So in the past decade we've had:
-One aircraft brought down by a flock of large and heavy birds (which ultimately equates to a one off as the past decade has proven you have about a 1 in 90 million chance of being on a US commercial flight and having that happen)
-Hundreds of bird strikes annually that are non-issues
-One alleged drone strike that was a non-issue
-A increasing number of internet users who don't understand statistics or risk management


But airliners have been lost due to a single engine failure, particularly on take off. You can't make a statement such as 'nothing will happen' as the poster did. The loss of an engine at a critical phase is commonly practiced yes, but you don't always know what is going to happen on the day, it is a risky situation to be in.
 
kalvado
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Re: AM 737 collides with drone at TIJ

Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:19 pm

Armodeen wrote:
But airliners have been lost due to a single engine failure, particularly on take off. You can't make a statement such as 'nothing will happen' as the poster did. The loss of an engine at a critical phase is commonly practiced yes, but you don't always know what is going to happen on the day, it is a risky situation to be in.

This is about a cost-benefit analysis, after all. No risk assessment is black and white.
This accident (assuming this is indeed a drone collision) show that there is at least a risk of property damage. I don't know about the cost of repairs, but it is probably 5, if not a 6 digit number.
Risk of life loss is pretty small, as far as I understand.
Probably it makes no sense to ground all drones at all. Probably it makes sense to implement some restrictions - or rather enforcement of existing restrictions via engineering measures as they tend to work better than administrative approaches.
People are talking about geofencing. Which should be a relatively simple one. SOme sort of "drop dead" signal emitted by the airliner? E.g. certain power of weather radar? What about GA?
There may be other ideas
It should not be about on-the-spot execution of drone operators, this is about safe coexisting after all.
 
Wacker1000
Posts: 181
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Re: AM 737 collides with drone at TIJ

Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:54 pm

Armodeen wrote:
But airliners have been lost due to a single engine failure, particularly on take off.


And the odds of a DC3 hitting a drone are?
 
Armodeen
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Re: AM 737 collides with drone at TIJ

Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:15 am

Wacker1000 wrote:
Armodeen wrote:
But airliners have been lost due to a single engine failure, particularly on take off.


And the odds of a DC3 hitting a drone are?


There have been a bunch, cmon. The ATR in Taiwan (I think) a couple of years ago springs immediately to mind (crew mismanaged a single engine failure leading to the loss of the aircraft).

I am not making an argument for anything, merely stating that the potential to lose an engine presents significant risk to the airframe, you can’t say there will definitely be no problems in the event of a drone strike.
 
travaz
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Re: AM 737 collides with drone at TIJ

Mon Dec 17, 2018 3:10 am

[quote="PSAatSAN4Ever"]

I am in no way trying to make this political or inflame the situation at all, but if this indeed a runway 9 incident, might this have been an American drone? Being right along the border and all, might it have belonged to US Border Patrol? And where, exactly, did the collision occur? And why was runway 9 (the opposite) in use?

Maybe this was a news organization trying to get footage of the border area and the "caravan". I have seen many news drones fly near the border in AZ to add footage to the nightly "news"
 
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trpmb6
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Re: AM 737 collides with drone at TIJ

Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:36 pm

Armodeen wrote:
Wacker1000 wrote:
Armodeen wrote:
But airliners have been lost due to a single engine failure, particularly on take off.


And the odds of a DC3 hitting a drone are?


There have been a bunch, cmon. The ATR in Taiwan (I think) a couple of years ago springs immediately to mind (crew mismanaged a single engine failure leading to the loss of the aircraft).

I am not making an argument for anything, merely stating that the potential to lose an engine presents significant risk to the airframe, you can’t say there will definitely be no problems in the event of a drone strike.


We are required to show that the aircraft can recover with one engine out.
 
kalvado
Posts: 1993
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Re: AM 737 collides with drone at TIJ

Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:53 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
Armodeen wrote:
Wacker1000 wrote:

And the odds of a DC3 hitting a drone are?


There have been a bunch, cmon. The ATR in Taiwan (I think) a couple of years ago springs immediately to mind (crew mismanaged a single engine failure leading to the loss of the aircraft).

I am not making an argument for anything, merely stating that the potential to lose an engine presents significant risk to the airframe, you can’t say there will definitely be no problems in the event of a drone strike.


We are required to show that the aircraft can recover with one engine out.

Can recover if everything goes normally. Which doesn't mean everything will be normal - and you're already one step down the failure tree, with extremely improbable conditions now becoming remote.
Which is not to say that everyone will die right away; but if one out of about 10 million flights crashes in normal operation - you're down to, say 1 out of hundred thousand drone ingestions that may end up in a crash.
WHich is not a reason to panic, but a reason to look at minimization of such events.
 
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trpmb6
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Re: AM 737 collides with drone at TIJ

Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:58 pm

When discussing this matter one must remember that news organizations read these threads.
 
kalvado
Posts: 1993
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:29 am

Re: AM 737 collides with drone at TIJ

Mon Dec 17, 2018 3:14 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
When discussing this matter one must remember that news organizations read these threads.

Oh dear, so we can only discuss how beautiful planes are? Or even that is too dangerous?
 
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Blimpie
Posts: 302
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Re: AM 737 collides with drone at TIJ

Mon Dec 17, 2018 3:29 pm

JAAlbert wrote:
So the only news organization reporting a serious Incident like this is Sputnik News??


Yes, because the rest of the wire services and international news organizations have insufficient information at this time to accurately report on this particular event. All we know is something struck this aircraft, as to what it was; no one knows. It could have been anything from a bird strike, a drone, a drunk redneck firing watermelons from a watermelon canon or a stray football thrown by Terry Bradsaw.
Now get the hell off of my lawn your dang kids!
 
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trpmb6
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Re: AM 737 collides with drone at TIJ

Mon Dec 17, 2018 3:42 pm

Blimpie wrote:
or a stray football thrown by Terry Bradsaw.


Well, we know it's not THAT one at least...
 
kalvado
Posts: 1993
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:29 am

Re: AM 737 collides with drone at TIJ

Mon Dec 17, 2018 3:43 pm

Blimpie wrote:
JAAlbert wrote:
So the only news organization reporting a serious Incident like this is Sputnik News??


Yes, because the rest of the wire services and international news organizations have insufficient information at this time to accurately report on this particular event. All we know is something struck this aircraft, as to what it was; no one knows. It could have been anything from a bird strike, a drone, a drunk redneck firing watermelons from a watermelon canon or a stray football thrown by Terry Bradsaw.

Did the same approach prevent same outlets reporting on, for example, Lion Air crash?
Or zillion other events, aviation or not, which are investigated for days, months or years?
 
BojamDelta
Posts: 126
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 8:25 pm

Re: AM 737 collides with drone at TIJ

Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:25 am

BlatantEcho wrote:
BojamDelta wrote:
Was asking for trouble letting anyone buy something capable of flying up as high as planes.


What??


What? Back at you.
Just look at Gatwick, anyone can buy one of these and fly around airfields causing havoc and potential fatalities.
Personally surprised RC planes haven’t been involved by certain groups.


Bo)am

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