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e38
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DCA slots

Fri Dec 14, 2018 4:38 pm

I saw a press release recently stating Delta was planning to begin nonstop flights between Washington (DCA) and Boston in September 2019 with six weekday flights--fewer weekend flights (initially planned with Delta Connection-Republic Embraer E-175 equipment).

Does anyone know where the DCA slots are coming from for these flights?

e38
 
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enilria
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Re: DCA slots

Fri Dec 14, 2018 4:44 pm

They are reducing LGA and other DL hubs by 1 RT
 
e38
Topic Author
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Re: DCA slots

Fri Dec 14, 2018 4:46 pm

enilria, thank you. I forgot to ask . . . I take it the slot issue at DCA is still in effect?

e38
 
GRUIAD
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Re: DCA slots

Fri Dec 14, 2018 4:46 pm

It's interesting that DL a few years ago slot traded with AA to offload DCA slots in favor of LGA slots. Now they want back in to some of the markets they presumably left.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: DCA slots

Fri Dec 14, 2018 4:53 pm

If Delta 'wants back in' badly enough it can make offers to buy slots. I suspect they'll be content just upgauging to free up slots presently used by other routes, as is demonstrated here.
 
jagraham
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Re: DCA slots

Fri Dec 14, 2018 4:56 pm

The AA/US merger was subject to some significant antitrust limitations at LGA and DCA. They touch DL too. Buying or renting slots is not an option for those two airlines.
 
UALFAson
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Re: DCA slots

Fri Dec 14, 2018 5:05 pm

There is already an entire thread talking about the DL expansion.

It in, it is noted that:

DTW, ATL, RDU, and CVG all lost 1x frequency to DCA, LGA lost 2x
"We hope you've enjoyed flying with us as much as we've enjoyed taking you for a ride."
 
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enilria
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Re: DCA slots

Fri Dec 14, 2018 5:08 pm

e38 wrote:
enilria, thank you. I forgot to ask . . . I take it the slot issue at DCA is still in effect?

e38

"The slot issue"? Not sure what you mean.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: DCA slots

Fri Dec 14, 2018 5:22 pm

GRUIAD wrote:
It's interesting that DL a few years ago slot traded with AA to offload DCA slots in favor of LGA slots. Now they want back in to some of the markets they presumably left.


^This, There has been talk from DL managers about getting back in the IND-DC market from IND, but they simply don't have the slots to do so.
ORD & IND

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ScottB
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Re: DCA slots

Fri Dec 14, 2018 5:50 pm

jagraham wrote:
The AA/US merger was subject to some significant antitrust limitations at LGA and DCA. They touch DL too. Buying or renting slots is not an option for those two airlines.


Well, it's probable that a transaction at either LGA or DCA which would serve to reduce the dominance of the largest carrier at either airport (i.e. DL selling/renting LGA slots to AA or AA selling/renting slots at DCA to DL) would likely be approved. That said, I don't see a remote possibility of this happening outside near-cataclysmic disruptions to the industry. DL is investing billions in its NYC operation and AA has a very profitable franchise at D.C.'s preferred airport. If anything, given that the DCA-BOS route historically printed money for US and now AA, it's even less likely that AA would agree to sell or rent DCA slots to DL absent some ridiculous amount of compensation.
 
jplatts
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Re: DCA slots

Fri Dec 14, 2018 6:08 pm

Will Congress ever add extra slots at DCA?

WN actually has enough room at DCA to add more flights to within-perimeter domestic destinations out of DCA if extra slots are added at DCA or if WN can otherwise acquire slots from other airlines at DCA. There are also some within-perimeter nonstop routes such as DCA-ALB, DCA-BUF, DCA-CLE, DCA-BDL, DCA-JAX, and DCA-MSP that could be added by WN if WN can get extra slots at DCA.

I also agree that DL could add more flights out of DCA if DL is able to acquire extra slots at DCA.
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: DCA slots

Fri Dec 14, 2018 6:15 pm

jplatts wrote:

Will Congress ever add extra slots at DCA?

WN actually has enough room at DCA to add more flights to within-perimeter domestic destinations out of DCA if extra slots are added at DCA or if WN can otherwise acquire slots from other airlines at DCA. There are also some within-perimeter nonstop routes such as DCA-ALB, DCA-BUF, DCA-CLE, DCA-BDL, DCA-JAX, and DCA-MSP that could be added by WN if WN can get extra slots at DCA.

I also agree that DL could add more flights out of DCA if DL is able to acquire extra slots at DCA.


WN could also add HOU-DEL and MDW-SYD if the right aircraft were available. DCA slots are pretty much a done deal at this point barring a few sales (not likely) or a new runway (Never say never, but probably never). :D
"My soul is in the sky". -Pyramus- A Midsummer's Night Dream
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: DCA slots

Fri Dec 14, 2018 7:03 pm

UALFAson wrote:
There is already an entire thread talking about the DL expansion.

It in, it is noted that:

DTW, ATL, RDU, and CVG all lost 1x frequency to DCA, LGA lost 2x


What is the deal with the OMA/LEX/MSN-DCA flights? Is there a special reason they fly those?
ORD & IND

AA & DL
 
shaneam12
Posts: 48
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Re: DCA slots

Fri Dec 14, 2018 7:16 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
UALFAson wrote:
There is already an entire thread talking about the DL expansion.

It in, it is noted that:

DTW, ATL, RDU, and CVG all lost 1x frequency to DCA, LGA lost 2x


What is the deal with the OMA/LEX/MSN-DCA flights? Is there a special reason they fly those?


Politics.
 
WWads
Posts: 340
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Re: DCA slots

Fri Dec 14, 2018 7:22 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
UALFAson wrote:
There is already an entire thread talking about the DL expansion.

It in, it is noted that:

DTW, ATL, RDU, and CVG all lost 1x frequency to DCA, LGA lost 2x


What is the deal with the OMA/LEX/MSN-DCA flights? Is there a special reason they fly those?


Republic owns those slots and flies them under the DL Connection brand. Can’t recall if they’re obligated to use DL branding or if that’s just who they chose.

In terms of the flights themselves, all are Congressional/state government shuttle routes.
 
WWads
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Re: DCA slots

Fri Dec 14, 2018 7:28 pm

If DL is axing an ATL flight, I wonder how long it’ll be until they try 757-300s like UA. Not sure if their gates can fit them, but they did run a few 767s for the 2008 inauguration.

That’ll be a fun time in the concourse...
 
FSDan
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Re: DCA slots

Fri Dec 14, 2018 7:40 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
UALFAson wrote:
There is already an entire thread talking about the DL expansion.

It in, it is noted that:

DTW, ATL, RDU, and CVG all lost 1x frequency to DCA, LGA lost 2x


What is the deal with the OMA/LEX/MSN-DCA flights? Is there a special reason they fly those?


I'm pretty sure those routes are tied to the slots. I don't think DL/Republic could move DCA-LEX to DCA-IND if they wanted to.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
evank516
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Re: DCA slots

Fri Dec 14, 2018 7:40 pm

UALFAson wrote:
There is already an entire thread talking about the DL expansion.

It in, it is noted that:

DTW, ATL, RDU, and CVG all lost 1x frequency to DCA, LGA lost 2x


Are they upgauging any LGA flights to make up for it?
 
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Polot
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Re: DCA slots

Fri Dec 14, 2018 7:43 pm

FSDan wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
UALFAson wrote:
There is already an entire thread talking about the DL expansion.

It in, it is noted that:

DTW, ATL, RDU, and CVG all lost 1x frequency to DCA, LGA lost 2x


What is the deal with the OMA/LEX/MSN-DCA flights? Is there a special reason they fly those?


I'm pretty sure those routes are tied to the slots. I don't think DL/Republic could move DCA-LEX to DCA-IND if they wanted to.

Yes, I believe those are Air21 slots. DL’s choices with them are either continue operating the route with the slot or give the slots up, no transferring.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: DCA slots

Fri Dec 14, 2018 7:43 pm

WWads wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
UALFAson wrote:
There is already an entire thread talking about the DL expansion.

It in, it is noted that:

DTW, ATL, RDU, and CVG all lost 1x frequency to DCA, LGA lost 2x


What is the deal with the OMA/LEX/MSN-DCA flights? Is there a special reason they fly those?


Republic owns those slots and flies them under the DL Connection brand. Can’t recall if they’re obligated to use DL branding or if that’s just who they chose.



Polot wrote:
FSDan wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

What is the deal with the OMA/LEX/MSN-DCA flights? Is there a special reason they fly those?


I'm pretty sure those routes are tied to the slots. I don't think DL/Republic could move DCA-LEX to DCA-IND if they wanted to.

Yes, I believe those are Air21 slots. DL’s choices with them are either continue operating the route with the slot or give the slots up, no transferring.


Thanks for the insight, that was what I was wondering about. Just looked it up on the DOT website, https://www.regulations.gov/document?D= ... 13734-0054. I find the DCA slot restrictions quite interesting
ORD & IND

AA & DL
 
cheapgreek
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Re: DCA slots

Fri Dec 14, 2018 8:36 pm

GRUIAD wrote:
It's interesting that DL a few years ago slot traded with AA to offload DCA slots in favor of LGA slots. Now they want back in to some of the markets they presumably left.


That slot swap was between DL and US, before the merger with AA. US gave the store away in that slot swap, US did not have the planes to effectively use the LGA slots, instead they wasted them with many Dash-8's going to very small markets. In contrast, DL did not waste the LGA slots on 30-40 seat aircraft. US at that time was hemorrhaging cash and came close to shutting down.
 
cheapgreek
Posts: 566
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2017 3:57 pm

Re: DCA slots

Fri Dec 14, 2018 8:36 pm

GRUIAD wrote:
It's interesting that DL a few years ago slot traded with AA to offload DCA slots in favor of LGA slots. Now they want back in to some of the markets they presumably left.


That slot swap was between DL and US, before the merger with AA. US gave the store away in that slot swap, US did not have the planes to effectively use the LGA slots, instead they wasted them with many Dash-8's going to very small markets. In contrast, DL did not waste the LGA slots on 30-40 seat aircraft. US at that time was hemorrhaging cash and came close to shutting down.
 
UppinhereP
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:39 am

Re: DCA slots

Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:34 pm

@ Midwestindy >>

Those are AIR 21 Slots from the past (Yes Politics). Can't really recall if they were originally from the Purchase of the Eastern Airlines liquidation by Northwest or not... (Memory is fading) Delta at the time had a decent slot portfolio but nothing compared to what NWA bought from Eastern. Look back at the threads on here, but NWA had a portfolio of routes back in the mid to late 90's and had the majority of the gates in the "Banjo" Terminal... That is also when NWA acquired Hanger #4 which fit in 2 planes in the hangar (front and back). NWA occupied about 7-8 gates in the banjo during the Eastern Purchase. Unfortunately, they withdrew all of those destinations and leased those slots to US Air. Someone from the area might be able to shed more light, but I tracked all those various DC-9 flights to Florida and that is also when they had the BOS shuttle. Thank you BTW Midwestindy for your contributions to the INDY thread... :)
 
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Polot
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Re: DCA slots

Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:54 pm

cheapgreek wrote:
GRUIAD wrote:
It's interesting that DL a few years ago slot traded with AA to offload DCA slots in favor of LGA slots. Now they want back in to some of the markets they presumably left.


That slot swap was between DL and US, before the merger with AA. US gave the store away in that slot swap, US did not have the planes to effectively use the LGA slots, instead they wasted them with many Dash-8's going to very small markets. In contrast, DL did not waste the LGA slots on 30-40 seat aircraft. US at that time was hemorrhaging cash and came close to shutting down.

US was not hemorrhaging money and close to shut down. That was before the HP merger, which was years before the LGA/DCA slot swap. It was just a case of US having a lot of LGA slots that they were losing money with and had no real use for, and DL having a lot of DCA slots that they were losing money with and had no real use for. US wanted to grow their already decent sized and profitable DCA operations, DL wanted to grow their NYC presence in conjunction with the JFK hub and be “number 1” in NYC. So they swapped (with DL also paying out some since they were getting more slots than giving).
 
blockski
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Re: DCA slots

Fri Dec 14, 2018 10:07 pm

If you want to get into the weeds on DCA slots, have fun reading this GAO report:

https://www.gao.gov/assets/650/648219.pdf

The gist is this: DCA has regular slots and exemptions. The 'exemptions' are exemptions from the rules, either from the perimeter rule, the slot rule, or both. The long-term plan is to get rid of all of the exemptions and codify them as part of the regular rules, but they haven't gotten around to that yet.

The original rules called for a total of 60 slots per hour, of which 12 were reserved for GA flights. After 9/11, those GA flights have almost completely disappeared. Also since 9/11, Congress has added more exemptions (up to 5 per hour) plus some room to 'slide' slots in the schedule, for a legal max of 67 slots per hour.

The actual use of slots is below that threshold (about 53 slots per peak hour), which likely helps keep the operation moving pretty smoothly; there are other constraints at DCA (gate space) that limit additional traffic.
 
cheapgreek
Posts: 566
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Re: DCA slots

Sat Dec 15, 2018 12:52 am

Polot wrote:
cheapgreek wrote:
GRUIAD wrote:
It's interesting that DL a few years ago slot traded with AA to offload DCA slots in favor of LGA slots. Now they want back in to some of the markets they presumably left.


That slot swap was between DL and US, before the merger with AA. US gave the store away in that slot swap, US did not have the planes to effectively use the LGA slots, instead they wasted them with many Dash-8's going to very small markets. In contrast, DL did not waste the LGA slots on 30-40 seat aircraft. US at that time was hemorrhaging cash and came close to shutting down.

US was not hemorrhaging money and close to shut down. That was before the HP merger, which was years before the LGA/DCA slot swap. It was just a case of US having a lot of LGA slots that they were losing money with and had no real use for, and DL having a lot of DCA slots that they were losing money with and had no real use for. US wanted to grow their already decent sized and profitable DCA operations, DL wanted to grow their NYC presence in conjunction with the JFK hub and be “number 1” in NYC. So they swapped (with DL also paying out some since they were getting more slots than giving).


All the HP merger did was buy US some time. They were the smallest of the legacies, had 2nd tier hubs and a bitter workforce. The swap also gave US from DL 70 million. As I said, US did not have a large enough mainline fleet to put the slots to good use. As an example, for a while, US ran 9 daily Dash-8 flights to PHL, so for this fact, they lost slots at LGA, the largest market in the country.
Had it not have been for the AA merger, US would probably not be here today.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: DCA slots

Sat Dec 15, 2018 4:15 pm

UppinhereP wrote:
@ Midwestindy >>

Those are AIR 21 Slots from the past (Yes Politics). Can't really recall if they were originally from the Purchase of the Eastern Airlines liquidation by Northwest or not... (Memory is fading) Delta at the time had a decent slot portfolio but nothing compared to what NWA bought from Eastern. Look back at the threads on here, but NWA had a portfolio of routes back in the mid to late 90's and had the majority of the gates in the "Banjo" Terminal... That is also when NWA acquired Hanger #4 which fit in 2 planes in the hangar (front and back). NWA occupied about 7-8 gates in the banjo during the Eastern Purchase. Unfortunately, they withdrew all of those destinations and leased those slots to US Air. Someone from the area might be able to shed more light, but I tracked all those various DC-9 flights to Florida and that is also when they had the BOS shuttle. Thank you BTW Midwestindy for your contributions to the INDY thread... :)


No problem, welcome to a.net

Thanks for the insight
ORD & IND

AA & DL
 
jplatts
Posts: 3938
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: DCA slots

Sat Dec 15, 2018 8:29 pm

shaneam12 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
What is the deal with the OMA/LEX/MSN-DCA flights? Is there a special reason they fly those?


Politics.


OMA is located near Lincoln, NE (the capital city of Nebraska), LEX is located near Frankfort, KY (the capital city of Kentucky), and MSN is located in Madison, WI (the capital city of Wisconsin).

There is travel to DCA by state government officials and employees of state government agencies from Nebraska, Kentucky, and Wisconsin on official state government business to support OMA-DCA, LEX-DCA, and MSN-DCA nonstop service with OMA, LEX, and MSN all being located near capital cities. In addition, there are some federal government employees and federal government officials who travel to OMA, LEX, and MSN from DCA on official federal government business.

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