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enilria
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Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:15 pm

OAG Changes 12/16/2018:AS Drops ATL-PDX;DL Drops ASE-LAX, Adds MEX-MSP;UA Dops SFO-MIA, Adds SFO-YYZ

Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:16 pm

FAQ

AS OF JULY 2018 THERE ARE CHANGES TO THE FORMAT OF THIS REPORT...SEE BELOW

WHAT IS THIS REPORT?
This compares departures for sale THIS WEEK for the stated period versus what was for sale LAST WEEK...prior year departures are now shown in brackets e.g. [0].

THE SCHEDULES SHOWN HERE CHANGE AFTER YOU POST???
-To improve is to change; to be perfect is to change often---Winston Churchill. This is data the carriers filed at the point in time it was captured. It's changed since then. You are just going to have to live with it.

HOW DO I READ IT?
XXX-YYY DEC 4>5[4] JAN 4>5[4]
XXX Departure IATA code, YYY Arrival IATA code, Month, Average Departures/Day over the month for sale as of last week, Average Departures/Day over the month for sale as of this week, in brackets is the number of Average Departures/Day over the month that were scheduled one year earlier. So, it means that the listed airline changed the frequency between the two airports to add from 4 to 5 roundtrips in December and January. It also means that there were 4 roundtrips the prior year in each month. No other months were changed. I average two directions.

WHAT ABOUT CARRIERS THAT DON'T PUBLISH A SCHEDULE 9 MONTHS IN ADVANCE?
NEW CHANGE-Sometimes airlines do not load their schedules for the entire 330 day standard sales window. Southwest and many LCCs load their schedules for as little as 5 months into the future. When these flight are extended into a new sales month, it becomes a "schedule change". Previously, I have manually deleted these in many cases and replaced them with a Year-Over-Year compare. Effective immediately, this will now change. When a flight is loaded from 0 departures X departures, where X was the same the prior year, the record will not be shown. For example, if Delta loaded ATL-EGE MAR 0>1(1), it would not be shown because this additional flight does not represent a real year-over-year addition. Similarly, if B6 extended their schedule a record like this ATL-BOS JUL 0>4(4) would not be shown. It will be shown if the flight frequency changed from the prior year. So B6 ATL-BOS JUL 0>3(4) would be shown. If a partial month was loaded in a core schedule that became a full schedule month, those changes may be shown under this logic. For example, WN BNA-SEA 0.3>2(2). Because only a fraction of the month was previously loaded for sale, these changes will not be filtered out. I may, however, manually remove them to declutter.

HOW ARE THE DAILY DEPARTURES CALCULATED?
This report uses total operations for the month listed, divided over the days in the month. The following criteria are used to show a change: 1) The change must be at least 6 roundtrips per month with no exceptions, 2) changes of at least 6/week are always shown, 3) routes that are added or dropped are shown subject to the change minimum, and 4) in all other cases routes must change by 20% to be shown. For example, if a route changed from 21/week to 18/week it would not be shown because the change is -14.3%. This is done to filter minor changes that occur in large numbers.

WHAT ARE THE FRACTIONAL FLIGHTS?
Flights that do not operate every day of the month create fractional service. If the route has more than 2 daily flights, departures are rounded, but in cases of less than 2 departures per day a fraction is shown. For example, if a flight operates 4 times in April it will show 4/30=0.133=0.1. Also , a flight that only operates once per week may vary between 0.1 and 0.2 because a weekday may repeat either 4 or 5 times depending on the month.

THOSE FLIGHTS AREN'T DELTA, THEY ARE SKYWEST
This report only shows the marketing code. It is too complicated to show all the operators.

THE FREQUENCIES MAY HAVE CHANGED AS YOU SHOW, BUT THE SEATS DIDNT CHANGE BECAUSE OF EQUIPMENT SWAPS
Seats are not shown. That is a natural weakness of a frequency based report, but it provides something to discuss below.

THIS LOOKS LIKE AN ERROR?
The carriers file the schedules. They do make mistakes. Most of the mistakes I have seen are either related to code shares not being marked as "duplicates" or carriers filing flights with invalid data such as equipment codes that are not standard or overlapping schedule periods that see the same flight number in two places at once. These cause flights to not appear.

CHARTERS?
Lately charters have been showing up in the database. I have no idea if that will continue.

I marked some of the ones I thought were interesting with an "*".



The time of the database update is almost random now. Oh well...

4W AKP-BTT JAN 0>0.2[0.4] FEB 0>0.2[0.4] MAR 0>0.2[0.4] APR 0>0.2[0.4] MAY 0>0.2[0.4] JUN 0>0.2[0.4] JUL 0>0.2[0.4] AUG 0>0.2[0.4] SEP 0>0.2[0.4]
4W AKP-FAI JAN 0>0.2[0.9] FEB 0>0.2[0.9] MAR 0>0.2[0.9] APR 0>0.2[0.9] MAY 0>0.2[0.9] JUN 0>0.2[0.9] JUL 0>0.2[0.9] AUG 0>0.2[0.9] SEP 0>0.2[0.9]
4W BTT-FAI JAN 0>0.2[0.9] FEB 0>0.2[0.9] MAR 0>0.2[0.9] APR 0>0.2[0.9] MAY 0>0.2[0.9] JUN 0>0.2[0.9] JUL 0>0.2[0.9] AUG 0>0.2[0.9] SEP 0>0.2[0.9]
4W CEM-FAI MAR 0>0.3[0.4] JUN 0>0.3[0.4] SEP 0>0.4[0.3]
4W CEM-IRC MAR 0>0.3[0.4] JUN 0>0.3[0.4] SEP 0>0.4[0.3]
4W CIK-FYU JAN 0>0.5[1.0] FEB 0>0.4[1.0] MAR 0>0.4[1.0] APR 0>0.4[1.0] MAY 0>0.5[1.0] JUN 0>0.4[1.0] JUL 0>0.4[1.0] AUG 0>0.5[1.0] SEP 0>0.4[1.0]
4W FAI-FYU JAN 0>0.9[3] FEB 0>0.9[3] MAR 0>0.8[3] APR 0>0.8[3] MAY 0>1.5[3] JUN 0>1.8[4] JUL 0>1.8[4] AUG 0>1.9[4] SEP 0>1.3[3]
4W FAI-IRC MAR 0>0.3[0.4] JUN 0>0.3[0.4] SEP 0>0.4[0.3]
4W FAI-MLY MAR 0>0.3[0.4] JUN 0>0.3[0.4] SEP 0>0.4[0.3]
4W FAI-MNT MAR 0>0.3[0.4] JUN 0>0.3[0.4] SEP 0>0.4[0.3]
4W FAI-SVS JAN 0>0.4[0.5] FEB 0>0.4[0.5] MAR 0>0.4[0.5] APR 0>0.4[0.5] MAY 0>0.4[0.5] JUN 0>0.4[0.5] JUL 0>0.4[0.5] AUG 0>0.4[0.5] SEP 0>0.4[0.5]
4W FAI-TAL JAN 0>0.5[1.7] FEB 0>0.4[1.7] MAR 0>0.4[1.7] APR 0>0.4[1.7] MAY 0>0.5[1.7] JUN 0>0.4[1.7] JUL 0>0.4[1.7] AUG 0>0.5[1.7] SEP 0>0.4[1.7]
4W FAI-WBQ JAN 0>0.4[0.5] FEB 0>0.4[0.5] MAR 0>0.4[0.5] APR 0>0.4[0.5] MAY 0>0.4[0.5] JUN 0>0.4[0.5] JUL 0>0.4[0.5] AUG 0>0.4[0.5] SEP 0>0.4[0.5]
4W MLY-RMP MAR 0>0.3[0.4] JUN 0>0.3[0.4] SEP 0>0.4[0.3]
4W MNT-RMP MAR 0>0.3[0.4] JUN 0>0.3[0.4] SEP 0>0.4[0.3]
4W SVS-WBQ JAN 0>0.4[0.5] FEB 0>0.4[0.5] MAR 0>0.4[0.5] APR 0>0.4[0.5] MAY 0>0.4[0.5] JUN 0>0.4[0.5] JUL 0>0.4[0.5] AUG 0>0.4[0.5] SEP 0>0.4[0.5]

7H AKN-ANC JAN 0.8>0.2[0]
7H AKN-DLG JAN 0.8>0.2[0]
7H ANC-DLG JAN 0.8>0.2[0]

9K BOS-PVC JUN 8>7[7]
9K HPN-MVY JUN 2>1.9[1.8]
9K HYA-MVY JUN 2.0>1.6[1.9]

AA AGS-MIA APR 0>0.3[0]
AA AGS-ORD APR 0>0.3[0.2]
AA ATL-ORD APR 6>4[4]
AA ATL-PHL APR 6>5[5]
*AA AVL-LGA MAY 0>0.3[0] JUN 0>0.3[0] JUL 0>0.3[0] AUG 0>0.3[0] SEP 0>0.3[0]
AA BDL-PHL APR 6>5[6]
AA BGR-DCA APR 3>2[3]
AA BGR-PHL APR 5>4[3]
AA BHM-PHL APR 3>2[2]
AA BNA-CLT APR 7>8[7]
AA BNA-DCA APR 5>6[5]
AA BNA-PHL APR 6>5[5]
AA BOS-JFK APR 5>4[5]
AA BOS-ORD APR 10>7[8]
AA BRO-DFW APR 4>3[3]
AA BWI-JFK APR 2.0>1.0[1.0]
AA BWI-MIA APR 3>2[3]
AA CAE-DCA APR 3>4[3]
*AA CAE-LGA MAY 0>0.9[0] JUN 0>1.0[0] JUL 0>1.0[0] AUG 0>1.0[0] SEP 0>1.0[0]
AA CAK-ORD APR 3>1.7[2]
*AA CDG-DFW JUN 1.0>1.8[1.0] JUL 1.0>2[1.0] AUG 1.0>2[1.0] SEP 1.0>2[1.0]
AA CHA-CLT APR 6>8[6]
AA CHO-CLT APR 7>8[7]
AA CHS-PHL APR 5>4[4]
AA CID-ORD APR 5>4[4]
AA CLE-CLT APR 6>7[7]
AA CLE-DCA APR 3>1.9[3]
AA CLE-DFW APR 5>4[4]
AA CLE-JFK APR 2>1.1[1.9]
AA CLE-PHL APR 6>5[6]
AA CLT-DAB APR 4>5[4]
AA CLT-GSP APR 8>9[8]
AA CLT-MDT APR 5>6[5]
AA CLT-MEM APR 7>6[6]
AA CLT-MIA APR 7>8[7]
AA CLT-MYR APR 9>8[8]
AA CLT-OAJ APR 7>6[6]
AA CLT-OKC APR 2>3[2]
AA CLT-ORD APR 9>10[9]
AA CLT-PDX APR 2.0>0.9[1.0]
AA CLT-ROA APR 7>8[8]
AA CLT-RSW APR 4>6[5]
AA CLT-SAT APR 4>5[4]
AA CLT-SFO APR 6>4[5]
AA CMH-DFW APR 5>4[4]
AA CMH-MIA APR 3>2[3]
AA CMH-ORD APR 8>9[8]
AA CMH-PHL APR 7>6[6]
AA COU-ORD APR 3>1.7[3]
AA CUN-MIA APR 6>5[6] SEP 6>5[6]
AA CVG-DCA APR 3>2[3]
AA CVG-PHL APR 6>5[5]
*AA DAB-LGA MAY 0>0.3[0] JUN 0>0.3[0] JUL 0>0.3[0] AUG 0>0.3[0]
AA DAY-DCA APR 4>3[4]
AA DAY-PHL APR 5>4[4]
AA DCA-EYW APR 1.0>1.3[1.3]
*AA DCA-MLB MAY 0>0.3[0] JUN 0>0.3[0] JUL 0>0.3[0] AUG 0>0.3[0]
AA DCA-MSP APR 3>1.9[3]
AA DCA-PBI APR 1.0>3[3]
AA DCA-PHL APR 3>4[3]
AA DCA-PVD APR 6>5[6]
AA DCA-RSW APR 1.0>2[2]
AA DCA-TPA APR 3>4[4]
AA DEN-PHL APR 1.0>1.9[1.1]
AA DFW-EWR APR 5>4[4]
*AA DFW-FCA JUN 0>0.8[0] JUL 0>1.0[0] AUG 0>1.0[0]
AA DFW-GRR APR 2>3[3]
AA DFW-GSO APR 1.9>3[1.9]
AA DFW-JLN APR 2>3[3]
AA DFW-LBB APR 6>7[6]
Wow 2X
*AA DFW-MAD JUN 1.0>1.8[1.0] JUL 1.0>2[1.0] AUG 1.0>2[1.0] SEP 1.0>2[1.0]
*AA DFW-MDT JUN 0>0.8[0] JUL 0>1.0[0] AUG 0>1.0[0] SEP 0>1.0[0]
AA DFW-MEM APR 7>8[6]
AA DFW-MSP APR 6>5[5]
*AA DFW-MYR MAY 0>0.9[0.1] JUN 0>1.0[0.2] JUL 0>1.0[0.1] AUG 0>1.0[0.1] SEP 0>1.0[0]
AA DFW-PDX APR 5>4[4]
AA DFW-PIT APR 5>4[4]
AA DFW-RSW APR 3>4[3]
AA DFW-SAV APR 3>2[1.9]
*AA DFW-SBP APR 0>1.0[0] MAY 0>1.0[0] JUN 0>1.0[0] JUL 0>1.0[0] AUG 0>1.0[0] SEP 0>1.0[0]
AA DFW-SEA APR 9>8[8]
AA DFW-STL APR 7>8[7]
*AA DFW-STS JUN 0>0.8[0] JUL 0>1.0[0] AUG 0>1.0[0] SEP 0>1.0[0]
AA DSM-PHX APR 2>3[1.9]
AA DTW-LGA APR 4>5[5]
AA DTW-PHL APR 6>5[6]
AA DTW-PHX APR 2>3[3]
AA ELP-LAX APR 2>3[2]
AA ELP-ORD APR 2>1.5[1.9]
AA EWR-ORD APR 6>5[5]
AA EWR-PHX APR 4>3[4]
*AA FCA-LAX JUN 0>0.8[0] JUL 0>1.0[0] AUG 0>1.0[0]
*AA FCA-ORD JUN 0>0.8[0] JUL 0>1.0[0] AUG 0>1.0[0]
AA FLL-PHL APR 4>5[4]
AA FNT-ORD APR 4>3[3]
AA FSD-ORD APR 3>1.9[2]
AA GSO-MIA APR 2.0>1.0[0.9]
AA GSO-ORD APR 3>1.9[2]
AA GSP-ORD APR 3>1.7[2]
AA HSV-ORD APR 2.0>1.0[0.9]
AA IAH-PHL APR 4>2[3]
AA IND-LAX APR 2>1.1[1.9]
AA IND-PHL APR 6>5[5]
AA IPT-PHL APR 3>1.6[2]
AA ISP-PHL APR 3>1.9[3]
AA JFK-ORD APR 1.0>1.9[1.0]
AA JFK-ORF APR 2>1.0[1.9]
*AA JFK-PIT APR 1.0>0.0[1.0]
AA JFK-RDU APR 4>3[4]
AA JFK-SEA APR 1.8>0.9[0.9]
AA LAS-ORD APR 4>5[5]
AA LAS-PHL APR 4>3[4]
AA LAX-MCO APR 4>3[3]
AA LAX-MIA APR 8>9[8]
AA LAX-ORD APR 10>9[10]
AA LAX-PHL APR 6>7[6]
AA LAX-RDM APR 1.0>1.7[1.0]
AA LAX-RNO APR 4>5[5]
AA LAX-SFO APR 11>10[11]
AA LAX-SLC APR 4>3[4]
*AA LAX-STS MAY 0>0.9[0] JUN 0>1.0[0] JUL 0>1.0[0] AUG 0>1.0[0] SEP 0>1.0[0]
AA LEX-PHL APR 3>2[2]
AA LGA-MSP APR 3>1.9[3]
AA LGA-ORF APR 4>3[3]
AA LGA-RIC APR 4>5[3]
AA LGA-STL APR 5>3[4]
AA LIT-ORD APR 3>4[3]
AA MCO-MIA APR 7>8[7]
AA MDT-ORD APR 3>4[3]
AA MDT-PHL APR 6>5[5]
*AA MHT-ORD JUN 0>1.7[0] JUL 0>2[0] AUG 0>2[0] SEP 0>2[0]
AA MHT-PHL APR 6>5[6]
AA MIA-SFO APR 4>3[4]
AA MIA-STL APR 3>1.9[3]
AA MIA-TLH APR 3>4[4]
AA MKE-PHL APR 5>4[5]
AA MLI-ORD APR 3>4[4]
AA MRY-PHX APR 3>4[5]
*AA MSN-PHX APR 0.0>1.0[0]
AA MSP-PHL APR 4>2[3]
AA MSY-PHL APR 2>3[3]
AA MYR-PHL APR 3>2[1.3]
AA OAK-PHX APR 4>3[4]
AA OKC-PHX APR 1.1>2[0.9]
AA ORD-PBI APR 1.1>1.9[2]
AA ORD-PDX APR 2.0>1.0[1.0]
AA ORD-PIT APR 6>7[5]
AA ORD-RAP APR 1.2>0.9[1.0]
AA ORD-RST APR 4>3[3]
AA ORD-SEA APR 5>3[4]
AA ORD-SFO APR 6>5[5]
AA ORD-SJC APR 1.9>1.0[1.0]
AA ORD-SNA APR 4>3[4]
AA ORD-TVC APR 4>3[3]
AA ORD-TYS APR 3>2.0[2]
AA PBI-PHL APR 3>5[3]
AA PHF-PHL APR 3>1.9[2]
AA PHL-PHX APR 7>6[6]
AA PHL-RIC APR 7>6[6]
AA PHL-RSW APR 3>4[3]
AA PHL-SBY APR 4>3[3]
AA PHL-SDF APR 4>2[2.0]
AA PHL-SEA APR 1.9>1.5[1.0]
AA PHL-STL APR 5>4[4]
AA PHL-SWF APR 3>2[2]
AA PHL-SYR APR 5>6[5]
AA PHL-TYS APR 3>2[2]
*AA PHL-YHZ JUN 0>0.6[0] JUL 0>1.0[0] AUG 0>1.0[0] SEP 0>1.0[0]
AA PHL-YUL APR 5>3[5]
AA PHL-YYZ APR 5>4[5]
AA PHX-PSP APR 5>7[7]
*AA PHX-RDU MAY 0>0.9[0] JUN 0>1.0[0] JUL 0>1.0[0] AUG 0>1.0[0] SEP 0>1.0[0]
AA PHX-SBA APR 5>4[4]
AA PHX-SGU APR 2>3[2]
AA PHX-TPA APR 2>3[2]
AA PHX-TUS APR 6>8[8]
AA PHX-YEG APR 2.0>1.0[1.1]
AA PHX-YUM APR 4>5[4]
AA PHX-YVR APR 2.0>1.0[1.1]

The war with DL is de-escalating
**AS ATL-PDX JUN 0.7>0[0.8] JUL 0.8>0[0.9] AUG 0.7>0[0.1]
*AS BOS-LAX JUN 3>1.7[3] JUL 3>1.8[3] AUG 3>1.9[3]
*AS BOS-SFO JUN 3>2.0[3] JUL 3>2[3] AUG 3>2[3]
AS KOA-SEA JUN 1.5>2[1.4] JUL 1.4>2[1.4] AUG 1.6>2[1.5]

B6 CUN-JFK FEB 1.5>1.9[2]
B6 FLL-NAS MAR 4>5[4] APR 4>5[4]

**DL ASE-LAX JUN 0.3>0[0.3] JUL 0.3>0[0.5] AUG 0.3>0[0.4]
DL ATL-MSP AUG 11>12[11]
DL ATL-PHF AUG 4>3[4]
DL ATL-RSW JUL 9>8[8] AUG 9>8[7]
DL ATL-SAV JUL 11>10[10] AUG 11>10[11]
DL ATL-SGF MAY 4>5[4] JUN 4>5[4] AUG 4>5[4]
DL ATL-SHV MAY 6>7[6]
DL AUS-RDU JUL 0.6>0.8[0.5] AUG 0.7>1.0[0.7]
DL BIL-SLC SEP 3>4[3]
DL BOS-SEA MAR 2.0>1.5[1.4]
DL BZN-SLC JUL 4>5[4] AUG 4>5[4]
DL IAH-LGA AUG 5>4[5]
DL LAS-SLC JUL 6>5[6] AUG 6>5[6]
DL LAX-PDX JUL 5>6[5] AUG 5>6[5]
DL LAX-RDU MAR 1.4>1.0[1.0]
DL LGA-RSW JUN 4>2[3] JUL 4>2[3] AUG 4>2[3] SEP 4>2[3]
DL MCO-SEA MAR 1.7>1.0[1.5]
*DL MEX-MSP JUN 0>0.8[0] JUL 0>1.0[0] AUG 0>1.0[0] SEP 0>1.0[0]
DL MSO-SLC JUL 4>5[4] AUG 4>5[4]
DL PSC-SEA JUN 4>3[3] JUL 4>3[3] AUG 4>3[3] SEP 4>3[3]
DL PSP-SLC MAY 3>2[3] JUN 3>2[2] JUL 3>2[2] AUG 3>2[2] SEP 3>2[3]
DL SAN-SEA MAY 5>4[4]

Interesting.
*FI KEF-MSP JUN 1.4>1.1[1.5]

HA HNL-ITO JAN 14>13[14] FEB 14>12[14]
HA HNL-KOA JAN 18>17[18] FEB 18>16[18]
HA KOA-LIH JAN 1.4>1.1[1.0] FEB 1.4>1.0[1.0]

*NK IAH-MYR MAY 0>0.3[0] JUN 0>0.3[0] JUL 0>0.3[0] AUG 0>0.3[0]
*NK IND-LAS MAR 0>0.6[0] APR 0>1.0[0] MAY 0>1.0[0] JUN 0>1.0[0] JUL 0>1.0[0] AUG 0>1.0[0]
*NK IND-MCO MAR 0>0.6[0] APR 0>1.0[0] MAY 0>1.0[0] JUN 0>1.0[0] JUL 0>1.0[0] AUG 0>1.0[0]
*NK IND-MYR MAY 0>0.4[0] JUN 0>0.4[0] JUL 0>0.4[0] AUG 0>0.4[0]
*NK MCI-MYR MAY 0>0.3[0] JUN 0>0.3[0] JUL 0>0.3[0] AUG 0>0.3[0]

OZ HNL-ICN APR 1.0>0.7[1.0]
OZ ICN-SEA APR 1.0>0.8[1.0]

SY JFK-MSP FEB 0>0.9[0.8] MAR 0>1.0[0.7] APR 0>1.0[1.5] MAY 0>1.0[3]

*TP LIS-SFO JUN 0>0.5[0] JUL 0>0.7[0] AUG 0>0.7[0] SEP 0>0.7[0]

UA BNA-SFO APR 3>2[1.9]
UA BOS-CLE MAR 3>0.6[2]
UA EWR-LAS APR 7>6[6]
UA EWR-MBJ APR 1.0>1.7[1.1]
UA EWR-MYR APR 1.0>1.3[1.1]
UA EWR-NAS APR 1.0>1.9[1.3]
UA EWR-POS APR 0>0.9[0]
UA EWR-SDQ APR 1.0>1.9[1.0]
UA EWR-SMF APR 1.0>0.7[0.6]
UA EWR-STT APR 0.1>0.5[0.1]
UA EWR-SXM APR 0.3>0.9[0.2]
UA EWR-XNA APR 0.7>1.0[1.0]
UA IAD-ITH JUN 2>3[0] JUL 1.9>3[0] AUG 1.8>3[0] SEP 1.9>3[0]
UA IAD-PUJ APR 1.0>1.9[1.0]
UA IAD-STT APR 0.1>0.5[0.1]
UA IAH-PTY APR 2>3[2]
UA IAH-RNO APR 0.3>0.1[0.3]
UA IAH-RTB APR 0.8>1.1[0.9]
UA ICN-SFO APR 1.0>1.6[1.0] MAY 1.0>1.5[1.0] JUN 1.0>1.6[1.0] JUL 1.0>1.6[1.0] AUG 1.0>1.6[1.0] SEP 1.0>1.6[1.0]
UA LAX-SCK AUG 0>0.8[0] SEP 0>2[0]
*UA MIA-SFO APR 1.0>0[1.0] MAY 1.0>0[1.0] JUN 1.0>0[1.0] JUL 1.0>0[1.0] AUG 1.0>0[1.0] SEP 1.0>0[1.0]
UA ORD-PBI MAY 0>0.3[1.0]
UA ORD-SJD APR 1.5>0.9[1.1]
*UA SFO-YYZ APR 0>2[0] MAY 0>2[0] JUN 0>2[0] JUL 0>2[0] AUG 0>2[0] SEP 0>2[0]

WW KEF-MCO JAN 0.5>0.2[0]
WW KEF-ORD JAN 1.0>0.8[0.8]
WW KEF-PIT JAN 0.5>0.4[0.6]
 
Dominion301
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Re: OAG Changes 12/16/2018:AS Drops ATL-PDX;DL Drops ASE-LAX, Adds MEX-MSP;UA Dops SFO-MIA, Adds SFO-YYZ

Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:23 pm

It’s interesting how UA are adding SFO-YYZ. I wonder if this will compliment or compete with AC?

Thanks Enilria.
 
whywhyzee
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Re: OAG Changes 12/16/2018:AS Drops ATL-PDX;DL Drops ASE-LAX, Adds MEX-MSP;UA Dops SFO-MIA, Adds SFO-YYZ

Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:31 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
It’s interesting how UA are adding SFO-YYZ. I wonder if this will compliment or compete with AC?

Thanks Enilria.


Well, AC has up to 6x daily and 2 widebodies with international service, this is a compliment, not a competitive move, simply because this isn't competitive compared to AC.
 
BenflysDTW
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Re: OAG Changes 12/16/2018:AS Drops ATL-PDX;DL Drops ASE-LAX, Adds MEX-MSP;UA Dops SFO-MIA, Adds SFO-YYZ

Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:31 pm

Where did the slot come from for MSP-MEX? It’s about time. It was going to come back. did they sacrifice a slot from ATL perhaps?
 
Dominion301
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Re: OAG Changes 12/16/2018:AS Drops ATL-PDX;DL Drops ASE-LAX, Adds MEX-MSP;UA Dops SFO-MIA, Adds SFO-YYZ

Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:38 pm

whywhyzee wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:
It’s interesting how UA are adding SFO-YYZ. I wonder if this will compliment or compete with AC?

Thanks Enilria.


Well, AC has up to 6x daily and 2 widebodies with international service, this is a compliment, not a competitive move, simply because this isn't competitive compared to AC.


I guess I should have clarified. Will AC codeshare on the new UA flights? To me that is complementary vs competitive. The AC/UA JV does not cover all routes. For example both UA and AC operate YOW-EWR yet they are forbidden from codesharing with each other on the route.
 
williaminsd
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Re: OAG Changes 12/16/2018:AS Drops ATL-PDX;DL Drops ASE-LAX, Adds MEX-MSP;UA Dops SFO-MIA, Adds SFO-YYZ

Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:42 pm

United Stockton-LAX starting in August? Now THAT is interesting...

UA LAX-SCK AUG 0>0.8[0] SEP 0>2[0]

*also started a separate thread on this as I know it will be of great interest to Valley airport followers...
 
FATFlyer
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Re: OAG Changes 12/16/2018:AS Drops ATL-PDX;DL Drops ASE-LAX, Adds MEX-MSP;UA Dops SFO-MIA, Adds SFO-YYZ

Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:45 pm

williaminsd wrote:
United Stockton-LAX starting in August? Now THAT is interesting...

UA LAX-SCK AUG 0>0.8[0] SEP 0>2[0]

I was just going to say the same thing.

SCK has been negotiating for some time for this route. They spoke with several airlines. Looks like UA is the one to bite.

SCK received a SCASD grant a couple of years ago to help support this route.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
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enilria
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Re: OAG Changes 12/16/2018:AS Drops ATL-PDX;DL Drops ASE-LAX, Adds MEX-MSP;UA Dops SFO-MIA, Adds SFO-YYZ

Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:47 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
It’s interesting how UA are adding SFO-YYZ. I wonder if this will compliment or compete with AC?

Thanks Enilria.

:)
BenflysDTW wrote:
Where did the slot come from for MSP-MEX? It’s about time. It was going to come back. did they sacrifice a slot from ATL perhaps?

Maybe one of the slots offered to WN or AS rolled back?
 
FATFlyer
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Re: OAG Changes 12/16/2018:AS Drops ATL-PDX;DL Drops ASE-LAX, Adds MEX-MSP;UA Dops SFO-MIA, Adds SFO-YYZ

Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:48 pm

Oh, SCK will have a press conference Tuesday at 3pm to announce the route.
http://flystockton.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/SCK_Media_Advisory.pdf
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
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enilria
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Re: OAG Changes 12/16/2018:AS Drops ATL-PDX;DL Drops ASE-LAX, Adds MEX-MSP;UA Dops SFO-MIA, Adds SFO-YYZ

Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:49 pm

FATFlyer wrote:
Oh, SCK will have a press conference Tuesday at 3pm to announce the route.
http://flystockton.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/SCK_Media_Advisory.pdf

As of now SCK is a not a valid selection on ua.com.
 
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SRQKEF
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Re: OAG Changes 12/16/2018:AS Drops ATL-PDX;DL Drops ASE-LAX, Adds MEX-MSP;UA Dops SFO-MIA, Adds SFO-YYZ

Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:49 pm

As always, thanks for the Sunday stable!

enilria wrote:
Interesting.
*FI KEF-MSP JUN 1.4>1.1[1.5][/i]


I'd guess this is because of the hub rebanking. It wouldn't surprise me to see a single 767 that departs KEF around 5pm and returns early the following morning.

Last summer, there was wing to wing service most days with either 2x 757s or a 757+MAX combination. If advance bookings for MSP pick up, I could see FI adding back another frequency in the new bank to MSP using a MAX as three more 737s are added to the fleet this spring.
Nothing compares to taking off in an empty 757 with full thrust!
 
flybry
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Re: OAG Changes 12/16/2018:AS Drops ATL-PDX;DL Drops ASE-LAX, Adds MEX-MSP;UA Dops SFO-MIA, Adds SFO-YYZ

Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:53 pm

UA dropping SFO to MIA? That's crazy!
 
as739x
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Re: OAG Changes 12/16/2018:AS Drops ATL-PDX;DL Drops ASE-LAX, Adds MEX-MSP;UA Dops SFO-MIA, Adds SFO-YYZ

Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:55 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
whywhyzee wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:
It’s interesting how UA are adding SFO-YYZ. I wonder if this will compliment or compete with AC?

Thanks Enilria.


Well, AC has up to 6x daily and 2 widebodies with international service, this is a compliment, not a competitive move, simply because this isn't competitive compared to AC.


I guess I should have clarified. Will AC codeshare on the new UA flights? To me that is complementary vs competitive. The AC/UA JV does not cover all routes. For example both UA and AC operate YOW-EWR yet they are forbidden from codesharing with each other on the route.


It would not surprise me to see a AC reduction coming. This would help reduce gate usage on the G concourse, which in turn helps UA with the additional flights that are being added. Granted being star hub to hub, but 8 daily flights with 2 being widebodies is a lot of lift.
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: OAG Changes 12/16/2018:AS Drops ATL-PDX;DL Drops ASE-LAX, Adds MEX-MSP;UA Dops SFO-MIA, Adds SFO-YYZ

Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:56 pm

enilria wrote:
AA BOS-JFK APR 5>4[5]
AA BWI-JFK APR 2.0>1.0[1.0]
AA CLE-JFK APR 2>1.1[1.9]
AA JFK-ORD APR 1.0>1.9[1.0]
AA JFK-ORF APR 2>1.0[1.9]
*AA JFK-PIT APR 1.0>0.0[1.0]
AA JFK-RDU APR 4>3[4]
AA JFK-SEA APR 1.8>0.9[0.9]


Interesting, JFK continues to get smaller and smaller by the day.
Delta Diamond Medallion and AAdvantage Gold for 2019
 
CriticalPoint
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Re: OAG Changes 12/16/2018:AS Drops ATL-PDX;DL Drops ASE-LAX, Adds MEX-MSP;UA Dops SFO-MIA, Adds SFO-YYZ

Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:00 pm

as739x wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:
whywhyzee wrote:

Well, AC has up to 6x daily and 2 widebodies with international service, this is a compliment, not a competitive move, simply because this isn't competitive compared to AC.


I guess I should have clarified. Will AC codeshare on the new UA flights? To me that is complementary vs competitive. The AC/UA JV does not cover all routes. For example both UA and AC operate YOW-EWR yet they are forbidden from codesharing with each other on the route.


It would not surprise me to see a AC reduction coming. This would help reduce gate usage on the G concourse, which in turn helps UA with the additional flights that are being added. Granted being star hub to hub, but 8 daily flights with 2 being widebodies is a lot of lift.


YYZ is a pre clear airport it never made since to me why they used G in SFO it’s a waste of valuable space.
 
lavalampluva
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Re: OAG Changes 12/16/2018:AS Drops ATL-PDX;DL Drops ASE-LAX, Adds MEX-MSP;UA Dops SFO-MIA, Adds SFO-YYZ

Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:00 pm

SRQKEF wrote:
As always, thanks for the Sunday stable!

enilria wrote:
Interesting.
*FI KEF-MSP JUN 1.4>1.1[1.5][/i]


I'd guess this is because of the hub rebanking. It wouldn't surprise me to see a single 767 that departs KEF around 5pm and returns early the following morning.

Last summer, there was wing to wing service most days with either 2x 757s or a 757+MAX combination. If advance bookings for MSP pick up, I could see FI adding back another frequency in the new bank to MSP using a MAX as three more 737s are added to the fleet this spring.

As of now FI haven’t updated their schedules. They are just booking 1 daily 753 for June/July. They’ll most likely updated this week to reflect the change.
Remind me to send a thank you note to Mr. Boeing.
 
FATFlyer
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Re: OAG Changes 12/16/2018:AS Drops ATL-PDX;DL Drops ASE-LAX, Adds MEX-MSP;UA Dops SFO-MIA, Adds SFO-YYZ

Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:01 pm

enilria wrote:
FATFlyer wrote:
Oh, SCK will have a press conference Tuesday at 3pm to announce the route.
http://flystockton.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/SCK_Media_Advisory.pdf

As of now SCK is a not a valid selection on ua.com.

It is loaded though at the OTAs using this info.

Per Travelocity, the schedule will be:
UA 5120 dep SCK 7:41am arr LAX 9:10am
UA 5032 dep SCK 3:00pm arr LAX 4:29pm

UA 5056 dep LAX 1:00pm arr SCK 2:22pm
UA 5097 dep LAX 5:10pm arr SCK 6:32pm
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
United1
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Re: OAG Changes 12/16/2018:AS Drops ATL-PDX;DL Drops ASE-LAX, Adds MEX-MSP;UA Dops SFO-MIA, Adds SFO-YYZ

Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:03 pm

whywhyzee wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:
It’s interesting how UA are adding SFO-YYZ. I wonder if this will compliment or compete with AC?

Thanks Enilria.


Well, AC has up to 6x daily and 2 widebodies with international service, this is a compliment, not a competitive move, simply because this isn't competitive compared to AC.


This is one of the few routes where UA is in competition with AC. SFO-YYZ is carved out of both the transborder ATI agreement UA and AC have as well as their transatlantic joint venture with LH. UA probably decided they could capture some of the revenue they were handing over on the AC code-share flights.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
United1
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Re: OAG Changes 12/16/2018:AS Drops ATL-PDX;DL Drops ASE-LAX, Adds MEX-MSP;UA Dops SFO-MIA, Adds SFO-YYZ

Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:22 pm

as739x wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:
whywhyzee wrote:

Well, AC has up to 6x daily and 2 widebodies with international service, this is a compliment, not a competitive move, simply because this isn't competitive compared to AC.


I guess I should have clarified. Will AC codeshare on the new UA flights? To me that is complementary vs competitive. The AC/UA JV does not cover all routes. For example both UA and AC operate YOW-EWR yet they are forbidden from codesharing with each other on the route.


It would not surprise me to see a AC reduction coming. This would help reduce gate usage on the G concourse, which in turn helps UA with the additional flights that are being added. Granted being star hub to hub, but 8 daily flights with 2 being widebodies is a lot of lift.


UA and AC do not have a transborder JV they have a limited ATI agreement. Originally there were 14 city pairs that were carved out of the ATI (routes that have had competition added since then have had that restriction removed) YOW-NYC and YYZ-SFO being two of them. There are no restrictions on code-sharing (UA and AC choose not to code share on YOW-EWR but are not prohibited from doing so) but they can not coordinate schedules or set pricing in those markets that were carved out. As SFO-YYZ is one of the carved out markets AC can cut flights if they choose to and UA can add them but they can't work together to make those decisions.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
Cointrin330
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Re: OAG Changes 12/16/2018:AS Drops ATL-PDX;DL Drops ASE-LAX, Adds MEX-MSP;UA Dops SFO-MIA, Adds SFO-YYZ

Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:30 pm

flybry wrote:
UA dropping SFO to MIA? That's crazy!


Bizarre that UA can't make SFO-MIA work.
 
UALFAson
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Re: OAG Changes 12/16/2018:AS Drops ATL-PDX;DL Drops ASE-LAX, Adds MEX-MSP;UA Dops SFO-MIA, Adds SFO-YYZ

Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:51 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
flybry wrote:
UA dropping SFO to MIA? That's crazy!


Bizarre that UA can't make SFO-MIA work.


Yes and no. While UA obviously has the huge FF base on the SFO end, AA is strong on the MIA end, and any business travelers who ply this specific route are likely loyal to AA because of frequency and quality of product offering.

FLL is the more leisure-oriented South Florida destination and bigger hub for cruise ships, so UA can make that route work from SFO. Without the former hub on the MIA end, there's likely not enough non-AA loyal biz travel to support UA nonstop between there and SFO even though they are 2 large cities.
"We hope you've enjoyed flying with us as much as we've enjoyed taking you for a ride."
 
usairways85
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Re: OAG Changes 12/16/2018:AS Drops ATL-PDX;DL Drops ASE-LAX, Adds MEX-MSP;UA Dops SFO-MIA, Adds SFO-YYZ

Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:52 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
enilria wrote:
AA BOS-JFK APR 5>4[5]
AA BWI-JFK APR 2.0>1.0[1.0]
AA CLE-JFK APR 2>1.1[1.9]
AA JFK-ORD APR 1.0>1.9[1.0]
AA JFK-ORF APR 2>1.0[1.9]
*AA JFK-PIT APR 1.0>0.0[1.0]
AA JFK-RDU APR 4>3[4]
AA JFK-SEA APR 1.8>0.9[0.9]


Interesting, JFK continues to get smaller and smaller by the day.

Capacity cuts at PHL continue as well (sans Florida). Some frequency cuts that start in Jan going through April not coupled with gauge increases.

AA IAH-PHL APR 4>2[3]
AA MSP-PHL APR 4>2[3]
AA MKE-PHL APR 5>4[5]
AA PHL-YUL APR 5>3[5]
AA PHL-YYZ APR 5>4[5]
AA CLE-PHL APR 6>5[6]
 
N649DL
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Re: OAG Changes 12/16/2018:AS Drops ATL-PDX;DL Drops ASE-LAX, Adds MEX-MSP;UA Dops SFO-MIA, Adds SFO-YYZ

Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:53 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
flybry wrote:
UA dropping SFO to MIA? That's crazy!


Bizarre that UA can't make SFO-MIA work.


That is odd. I think loads were in the 50-60% range so not good. It was only operated by a 319 I believe too.
 
cschleic
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Re: OAG Changes 12/16/2018:AS Drops ATL-PDX;DL Drops ASE-LAX, Adds MEX-MSP;UA Dops SFO-MIA, Adds SFO-YYZ

Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:58 pm

**AS ATL-PDX JUN 0.7>0[0.8] JUL 0.8>0[0.9] AUG 0.7>0[0.1]

Bummer. This one seems to come and go and it's unfortunate if it's gone for good.
 
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SRQKEF
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Re: OAG Changes 12/16/2018:AS Drops ATL-PDX;DL Drops ASE-LAX, Adds MEX-MSP;UA Dops SFO-MIA, Adds SFO-YYZ

Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:01 pm

lavalampluva wrote:
SRQKEF wrote:
As always, thanks for the Sunday stable!

enilria wrote:
Interesting.
*FI KEF-MSP JUN 1.4>1.1[1.5][/i]


I'd guess this is because of the hub rebanking. It wouldn't surprise me to see a single 767 that departs KEF around 5pm and returns early the following morning.

Last summer, there was wing to wing service most days with either 2x 757s or a 757+MAX combination. If advance bookings for MSP pick up, I could see FI adding back another frequency in the new bank to MSP using a MAX as three more 737s are added to the fleet this spring.

As of now FI haven’t updated their schedules. They are just booking 1 daily 753 for June/July. They’ll most likely updated this week to reflect the change.


It could also be a 753 as the 767s are pretty much tied up in SFO/JFK/BOS, although I can also see a split 753/763 schedule (like CPH has been this month) with 3x weekly 767s and 4x weekly 753s.
Nothing compares to taking off in an empty 757 with full thrust!
 
jayunited
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Re: OAG Changes 12/16/2018:AS Drops ATL-PDX;DL Drops ASE-LAX, Adds MEX-MSP;UA Dops SFO-MIA, Adds SFO-YYZ

Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:06 pm

flybry wrote:
UA dropping SFO to MIA? That's crazy!


Exactly what I was thinking when I read the title of the thread. How is it UA can't make this route work as strong as we are at SFO AA is equally as strong at MIA but somehow AA is able to make the route work with I believe 6 or 7 daily nonstops during the summer and at least one maybe 2 of those flights are widebodies. Kirby came over from AA he should know how to compete in this market against AA instead he gives up completely which means once this route is canceled UA's only nonstop route from the entire state of California to Southern Florida's east coast is a single nonstop SFO-FLL. It is crazy and ridiculous that we can't make California to South Florida work.
 
remymartin11
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Re: OAG Changes 12/16/2018:AS Drops ATL-PDX;DL Drops ASE-LAX, Adds MEX-MSP;UA Dops SFO-MIA, Adds SFO-YYZ

Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:22 pm

PHX-RDU N/S absolutely fabulous. Adios CLT and DFW connections. WN unbearable for flight that long. Bravo AA
 
Brickell305
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Re: OAG Changes 12/16/2018:AS Drops ATL-PDX;DL Drops ASE-LAX, Adds MEX-MSP;UA Dops SFO-MIA, Adds SFO-YYZ

Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:29 pm

UALFAson wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
flybry wrote:
UA dropping SFO to MIA? That's crazy!


Bizarre that UA can't make SFO-MIA work.


Yes and no. While UA obviously has the huge FF base on the SFO end, AA is strong on the MIA end, and any business travelers who ply this specific route are likely loyal to AA because of frequency and quality of product offering.

FLL is the more leisure-oriented South Florida destination and bigger hub for cruise ships, so UA can make that route work from SFO. Without the former hub on the MIA end, there's likely not enough non-AA loyal biz travel to support UA nonstop between there and SFO even though they are 2 large cities.

FLL is not the bigger hub for cruise ships. The Port of Miami is the largest cruise port in the world. Port Everglades (FLL) is third. Still quite large but obviously not bigger than PoM.

I also find it strange that UA can’t make at least a single daily SFO-MIA work.
 
lavalampluva
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Re: OAG Changes 12/16/2018:AS Drops ATL-PDX;DL Drops ASE-LAX, Adds MEX-MSP;UA Dops SFO-MIA, Adds SFO-YYZ

Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:34 pm

*DL MEX-MSP JUN 0>0.8[0] JUL 0>1.0[0] AUG 0>1.0[0] SEP 0>1.0[0]

They’ll be using an A319. I believe that’s what NW used the last time.
Remind me to send a thank you note to Mr. Boeing.
 
dfwjim1
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Re: OAG Changes 12/16/2018:AS Drops ATL-PDX;DL Drops ASE-LAX, Adds MEX-MSP;UA Dops SFO-MIA, Adds SFO-YYZ

Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:36 pm

jayunited wrote:
flybry wrote:
UA dropping SFO to MIA? That's crazy!


Exactly what I was thinking when I read the title of the thread. How is it UA can't make this route work as strong as we are at SFO AA is equally as strong at MIA but somehow AA is able to make the route work with I believe 6 or 7 daily nonstops during the summer and at least one maybe 2 of those flights are widebodies. Kirby came over from AA he should know how to compete in this market against AA instead he gives up completely which means once this route is canceled UA's only nonstop route from the entire state of California to Southern Florida's east coast is a single nonstop SFO-FLL. It is crazy and ridiculous that we can't make California to South Florida work.


I fly MIA to SFO several times a year on AA and every flight I have been
on there were a lot of people connecting in MIA from the Americas going
on to SFO. I imagine there is far less demand from people in the Pacific Badin
connecting in SFO on United to MIA.
 
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enilria
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Re: OAG Changes 12/16/2018:AS Drops ATL-PDX;DL Drops ASE-LAX, Adds MEX-MSP;UA Dops SFO-MIA, Adds SFO-YYZ

Sun Dec 16, 2018 11:51 pm

lavalampluva wrote:
As of now FI haven’t updated their schedules. They are just booking 1 daily 753 for June/July. They’ll most likely updated this week to reflect the change.

I'm sure like all of us they are waiting to see what WOW will do.
SRQKEF wrote:
As always, thanks for the Sunday stable!

:)

lavalampluva wrote:
*DL MEX-MSP JUN 0>0.8[0] JUL 0>1.0[0] AUG 0>1.0[0] SEP 0>1.0[0]

They’ll be using an A319. I believe that’s what NW used the last time.

I'm actually surprised they waited this long to add that with the AM alliance. Seems extremely obvious as an opportunity, although MSP has a very small Mexican population. It might end up carrying mostly beach connects.
 
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SRQKEF
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Re: OAG Changes 12/16/2018:AS Drops ATL-PDX;DL Drops ASE-LAX, Adds MEX-MSP;UA Dops SFO-MIA, Adds SFO-YYZ

Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:05 am

enilria wrote:
lavalampluva wrote:
As of now FI haven’t updated their schedules. They are just booking 1 daily 753 for June/July. They’ll most likely updated this week to reflect the change.

I'm sure like all of us they are waiting to see what WOW will do.


That’s true, FI have stated they’re looking at potentially increasing the size of their system by up to 35% (pax numbers, not destinations) if there’s a drawdown of other airlines in KEF. Excited to see how their finished network for S19 will look like, profitable routes will probably be beefed up while they cut off the fat in terms of the more marginal routes. I’m hoping to see at least some new destinations as well, although they seem more likely to be on the European side.
Nothing compares to taking off in an empty 757 with full thrust!
 
Dominion301
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Re: OAG Changes 12/16/2018:AS Drops ATL-PDX;DL Drops ASE-LAX, Adds MEX-MSP;UA Dops SFO-MIA, Adds SFO-YYZ

Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:42 am

United1 wrote:
as739x wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:

I guess I should have clarified. Will AC codeshare on the new UA flights? To me that is complementary vs competitive. The AC/UA JV does not cover all routes. For example both UA and AC operate YOW-EWR yet they are forbidden from codesharing with each other on the route.


It would not surprise me to see a AC reduction coming. This would help reduce gate usage on the G concourse, which in turn helps UA with the additional flights that are being added. Granted being star hub to hub, but 8 daily flights with 2 being widebodies is a lot of lift.


UA and AC do not have a transborder JV they have a limited ATI agreement. Originally there were 14 city pairs that were carved out of the ATI (routes that have had competition added since then have had that restriction removed) YOW-NYC and YYZ-SFO being two of them. There are no restrictions on code-sharing (UA and AC choose not to code share on YOW-EWR but are not prohibited from doing so) but they can not coordinate schedules or set pricing in those markets that were carved out. As SFO-YYZ is one of the carved out markets AC can cut flights if they choose to and UA can add them but they can't work together to make those decisions.


Thanks for the clarification and makes sense given DL’s entry onto YOW-LGA. No doubt AC moved their YOW-NYC ops from LGA to EWR in part to feed UA.

Is WS the competitor on YYZ-SFO?
 
United1
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Re: OAG Changes 12/16/2018:AS Drops ATL-PDX;DL Drops ASE-LAX, Adds MEX-MSP;UA Dops SFO-MIA, Adds SFO-YYZ

Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:47 am

Dominion301 wrote:
United1 wrote:
as739x wrote:

It would not surprise me to see a AC reduction coming. This would help reduce gate usage on the G concourse, which in turn helps UA with the additional flights that are being added. Granted being star hub to hub, but 8 daily flights with 2 being widebodies is a lot of lift.


UA and AC do not have a transborder JV they have a limited ATI agreement. Originally there were 14 city pairs that were carved out of the ATI (routes that have had competition added since then have had that restriction removed) YOW-NYC and YYZ-SFO being two of them. There are no restrictions on code-sharing (UA and AC choose not to code share on YOW-EWR but are not prohibited from doing so) but they can not coordinate schedules or set pricing in those markets that were carved out. As SFO-YYZ is one of the carved out markets AC can cut flights if they choose to and UA can add them but they can't work together to make those decisions.


Thanks for the clarification and makes sense given DL’s entry onto YOW-LGA. No doubt AC moved their YOW-NYC ops from LGA to EWR in part to feed UA.

Is WS the competitor on YYZ-SFO?


Sorry I just reread what I wrote and I wasn't as clear as I could have been earlier.

YYZ-SFO is carved out of the ATI agreement as there is no competitor on it (WS doesn't serve the market.) UA and AC can (and do) codeshare on the route but they can't co-ordinate schedules or pricing.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
EarlyLateORD
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Re: OAG Changes 12/16/2018:AS Drops ATL-PDX;DL Drops ASE-LAX, Adds MEX-MSP;UA Dops SFO-MIA, Adds SFO-YYZ

Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:48 am

MSP-MEX accomplishes a lot. Access to connections to smaller Mexican destinations as well as Central and South America. Not an insignificant number of corporate connections. Archeological tourism. Beach tourism.

Mexico City is quite a destination in its own right with two of the top 15 restaurants in the world, as many as France and the entire US have. Pujol is off the charters amazing…. My wife and I spent our 5th wedding anniversary there,

Our local paper, the Star Tribune, did a really lovely article on D.F. last month

http://www.startribune.com/in-mexico-ci ... 501036932/

Adam
 
jplatts
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Re: OAG Changes 12/16/2018:AS Drops ATL-PDX;DL Drops ASE-LAX, Adds MEX-MSP;UA Dops SFO-MIA, Adds SFO-YYZ

Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:06 am

jayunited wrote:
flybry wrote:
UA dropping SFO to MIA? That's crazy!


Kirby came over from AA he should know how to compete in this market against AA instead he gives up completely which means once this route is canceled UA's only nonstop route from the entire state of California to Southern Florida's east coast is a single nonstop SFO-FLL. It is crazy and ridiculous that we can't make California to South Florida work.


WN might be able to make OAK-FLL nonstop service work since there are frequent flyers who are loyal to WN in both the San Francisco Bay Area and South Florida. WN would also be able to offer connections to destinations Caribbean from the San Francisco Bay Area through FLL if WN adds FLL-OAK nonstop service.

There are some U.S. destinations that already have nonstop service to FLL on both WN and B6 such as ALB, ATL, AUS, BUF, CHI, BDL, JAX, LAS, BNA, PHL, PVD, RDU, and DCA. WN also has more market share at FLL than B6 does.

WN might be willing to add OAK-FLL nonstop service if there is enough demand for OAK-FLL nonstop service, even if WN adding OAK-FLL would be in competition with B6 SFO-FLL nonstop service.
 
lavalampluva
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Re: OAG Changes 12/16/2018:AS Drops ATL-PDX;DL Drops ASE-LAX, Adds MEX-MSP;UA Dops SFO-MIA, Adds SFO-YYZ

Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:07 am

EarlyLateORD wrote:
MSP-MEX accomplishes a lot. Access to connections to smaller Mexican destinations as well as Central and South America. Not an insignificant number of corporate connections. Archeological tourism. Beach tourism.

Mexico City is quite a destination in its own right with two of the top 15 restaurants in the world, as many as France and the entire US have. Pujol is off the charters amazing…. My wife and I spent our 5th wedding anniversary there,

Our local paper, the Star Tribune, did a really lovely article on D.F. last month

http://www.startribune.com/in-mexico-ci ... 501036932/

Adam

It’s an 8:00am departure from MSP. I feel that they’ll miss a lot of the connecting pax at MSP. That’s probably why they’re using the smaller A319.
Remind me to send a thank you note to Mr. Boeing.
 
MSPNWA
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Re: OAG Changes 12/16/2018:AS Drops ATL-PDX;DL Drops ASE-LAX, Adds MEX-MSP;UA Dops SFO-MIA, Adds SFO-YYZ

Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:12 am

lavalampluva wrote:
*DL MEX-MSP JUN 0>0.8[0] JUL 0>1.0[0] AUG 0>1.0[0] SEP 0>1.0[0]

They’ll be using an A319. I believe that’s what NW used the last time.


It was an A319, but it was DL by then. Hopefully it does a lot better this time.
 
lavalampluva
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Re: OAG Changes 12/16/2018:AS Drops ATL-PDX;DL Drops ASE-LAX, Adds MEX-MSP;UA Dops SFO-MIA, Adds SFO-YYZ

Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:15 am

MSPNWA wrote:
lavalampluva wrote:
*DL MEX-MSP JUN 0>0.8[0] JUL 0>1.0[0] AUG 0>1.0[0] SEP 0>1.0[0]

They’ll be using an A319. I believe that’s what NW used the last time.


It was an A319, but it was DL by then. Hopefully it does a lot better this time.

It should. They seem interested in boosting MEX. but isn’t MEX slotted? I wonder where they’re getting the slot. The other DL-MEX gateways are unchanged.
Remind me to send a thank you note to Mr. Boeing.
 
B752OS
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Re: OAG Changes 12/16/2018:AS Drops ATL-PDX;DL Drops ASE-LAX, Adds MEX-MSP;UA Dops SFO-MIA, Adds SFO-YYZ

Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:32 am

dfwjim1 wrote:
jayunited wrote:
flybry wrote:
UA dropping SFO to MIA? That's crazy!


Exactly what I was thinking when I read the title of the thread. How is it UA can't make this route work as strong as we are at SFO AA is equally as strong at MIA but somehow AA is able to make the route work with I believe 6 or 7 daily nonstops during the summer and at least one maybe 2 of those flights are widebodies. Kirby came over from AA he should know how to compete in this market against AA instead he gives up completely which means once this route is canceled UA's only nonstop route from the entire state of California to Southern Florida's east coast is a single nonstop SFO-FLL. It is crazy and ridiculous that we can't make California to South Florida work.


I fly MIA to SFO several times a year on AA and every flight I have been
on there were a lot of people connecting in MIA from the Americas going
on to SFO
. I imagine there is far less demand from people in the Pacific Badin
connecting in SFO on United to MIA.


That makes sense and I'd imagine AA carries a fair amount of connecting traffic on MIA-LAX-MIA coming to/from the Americas as well.
 
RamblinMan
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Re: OAG Changes 12/16/2018:AS Drops ATL-PDX;DL Drops ASE-LAX, Adds MEX-MSP;UA Dops SFO-MIA, Adds SFO-YYZ

Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:48 am

remymartin11 wrote:
PHX-RDU N/S absolutely fabulous. Adios CLT and DFW connections. WN unbearable for flight that long. Bravo AA

I suppose you always fly in F if its available? Otherwise this statement makes absolutely no sense
 
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SteveXC500
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Re: OAG Changes 12/16/2018:AS Drops ATL-PDX;DL Drops ASE-LAX, Adds MEX-MSP;UA Dops SFO-MIA, Adds SFO-YYZ

Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:16 am

SRQKEF wrote:
As always, thanks for the Sunday stable!

enilria wrote:
Interesting.
*FI KEF-MSP JUN 1.4>1.1[1.5][/i]


I'd guess this is because of the hub rebanking. It wouldn't surprise me to see a single 767 that departs KEF around 5pm and returns early the following morning.

Last summer, there was wing to wing service most days with either 2x 757s or a 757+MAX combination. If advance bookings for MSP pick up, I could see FI adding back another frequency in the new bank to MSP using a MAX as three more 737s are added to the fleet this spring.


They are all over the place with the fleet on this route. 2x MAX 8 to a 757, even the 753 will be on this route in the summer.
 
cschleic
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Re: OAG Changes 12/16/2018:AS Drops ATL-PDX;DL Drops ASE-LAX, Adds MEX-MSP;UA Dops SFO-MIA, Adds SFO-YYZ

Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:22 am

B752OS wrote:
dfwjim1 wrote:
jayunited wrote:

Exactly what I was thinking when I read the title of the thread. How is it UA can't make this route work as strong as we are at SFO AA is equally as strong at MIA but somehow AA is able to make the route work with I believe 6 or 7 daily nonstops during the summer and at least one maybe 2 of those flights are widebodies. Kirby came over from AA he should know how to compete in this market against AA instead he gives up completely which means once this route is canceled UA's only nonstop route from the entire state of California to Southern Florida's east coast is a single nonstop SFO-FLL. It is crazy and ridiculous that we can't make California to South Florida work.


I fly MIA to SFO several times a year on AA and every flight I have been
on there were a lot of people connecting in MIA from the Americas going
on to SFO
. I imagine there is far less demand from people in the Pacific Badin
connecting in SFO on United to MIA.


That makes sense and I'd imagine AA carries a fair amount of connecting traffic on MIA-LAX-MIA coming to/from the Americas as well.


I've flown either SFO - MIA or MIA - LAX, even LAS - MIA, several times and always lots of connecting traffic beyond Miami. There isn't anywhere near as much direct service from the west coast to Central and South America as from other hubs...DFW, IAH, ATL, MIA....
 
User avatar
SRQKEF
Posts: 1829
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Re: OAG Changes 12/16/2018:AS Drops ATL-PDX;DL Drops ASE-LAX, Adds MEX-MSP;UA Dops SFO-MIA, Adds SFO-YYZ

Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:26 am

SteveXC500 wrote:
SRQKEF wrote:
As always, thanks for the Sunday stable!

enilria wrote:
Interesting.
*FI KEF-MSP JUN 1.4>1.1[1.5][/i]


I'd guess this is because of the hub rebanking. It wouldn't surprise me to see a single 767 that departs KEF around 5pm and returns early the following morning.

Last summer, there was wing to wing service most days with either 2x 757s or a 757+MAX combination. If advance bookings for MSP pick up, I could see FI adding back another frequency in the new bank to MSP using a MAX as three more 737s are added to the fleet this spring.


They are all over the place with the fleet on this route. 2x MAX 8 to a 757, even the 753 will be on this route in the summer.


That’s not unusual for FI as most of their routes are within the range of all their aircraft types, so they can very easily be swapped based on daily demand. For example, ARN has seen everything from the MAX to the 767 with everything in between in the last month. The only routes that almost never change, from a 767 in both cases, are SFO (due to range) and BOS+LHR (due to demand). Most others are fairly flexible even though most of them have a 7M8, 752, 753 or 767 as the “standard” aircraft on the route. This will rotate even more with the arrival of 7M9s next year.
Nothing compares to taking off in an empty 757 with full thrust!
 
GordonCC
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 4:16 am

Re: OAG Changes 12/16/2018:AS Drops ATL-PDX;DL Drops ASE-LAX, Adds MEX-MSP;UA Dops SFO-MIA, Adds SFO-YYZ

Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:34 am

Ridiculous that United cannot sustain a SFO-MIA flight.
 
EarlyLateORD
Posts: 111
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Re: OAG Changes 12/16/2018:AS Drops ATL-PDX;DL Drops ASE-LAX, Adds MEX-MSP;UA Dops SFO-MIA, Adds SFO-YYZ

Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:53 am

GordonCC wrote:
Ridiculous that United cannot sustain a SFO-MIA flight.


They will continue to fly SFO-MIA, via IAH :)

Adam
 
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AVLAirlineFreq
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Re: OAG Changes 12/16/2018:AS Drops ATL-PDX;DL Drops ASE-LAX, Adds MEX-MSP;UA Dops SFO-MIA, Adds SFO-YYZ

Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:57 am

Thanks as always, enilria!
 
Rdh3e
Posts: 3500
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:09 pm

Re: OAG Changes 12/16/2018:AS Drops ATL-PDX;DL Drops ASE-LAX, Adds MEX-MSP;UA Dops SFO-MIA, Adds SFO-YYZ

Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:57 am

United1 wrote:
Sorry I just reread what I wrote and I wasn't as clear as I could have been earlier.

YYZ-SFO is carved out of the ATI agreement as there is no competitor on it (WS doesn't serve the market.) UA and AC can (and do) codeshare on the route but they can't co-ordinate schedules or pricing.

Are you sure the carveouts apply to schedule coordination? I read somewhere they only applied to pricing.
 
United1
Posts: 3808
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:21 am

Re: OAG Changes 12/16/2018:AS Drops ATL-PDX;DL Drops ASE-LAX, Adds MEX-MSP;UA Dops SFO-MIA, Adds SFO-YYZ

Mon Dec 17, 2018 3:04 am

Rdh3e wrote:
United1 wrote:
Sorry I just reread what I wrote and I wasn't as clear as I could have been earlier.

YYZ-SFO is carved out of the ATI agreement as there is no competitor on it (WS doesn't serve the market.) UA and AC can (and do) codeshare on the route but they can't co-ordinate schedules or pricing.

Are you sure the carveouts apply to schedule coordination? I read somewhere they only applied to pricing.


I can't find anything online right now specific to schedule coordination. Pricing and schedule coordination are typically the two things you need ATI for however.

http://www.competitionbureau.gc.ca/eic/ ... 03507.html

pricing is definitely verboten....
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
jayunited
Posts: 2071
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: OAG Changes 12/16/2018:AS Drops ATL-PDX;DL Drops ASE-LAX, Adds MEX-MSP;UA Dops SFO-MIA, Adds SFO-YYZ

Mon Dec 17, 2018 3:40 am

dfwjim1 wrote:
jayunited wrote:
flybry wrote:
UA dropping SFO to MIA? That's crazy!


Exactly what I was thinking when I read the title of the thread. How is it UA can't make this route work as strong as we are at SFO AA is equally as strong at MIA but somehow AA is able to make the route work with I believe 6 or 7 daily nonstops during the summer and at least one maybe 2 of those flights are widebodies. Kirby came over from AA he should know how to compete in this market against AA instead he gives up completely which means once this route is canceled UA's only nonstop route from the entire state of California to Southern Florida's east coast is a single nonstop SFO-FLL. It is crazy and ridiculous that we can't make California to South Florida work.


I fly MIA to SFO several times a year on AA and every flight I have been
on there were a lot of people connecting in MIA from the Americas going
on to SFO. I imagine there is far less demand from people in the Pacific Badin
connecting in SFO on United to MIA.


I get what you and others are saying I just find it strange, UA is probably the second strongest domestic carrier in the entire state of California. We are probably behind WN in terms of total number of flights and probably total number of passengers. If my previous statement is true I'm just shocked that we can only sustain one flight from the entire state of California to Southeastern Florida. It just boggles my mind that UA in California can only manage one a singular SFO-FLL flight per day, I'm just shocked by it.

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