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SRQKEF
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Icelandair looking at India flights in W19

Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:09 am

Now that WOW is out of the long haul market, FI is looking at starting India flights in the fall of 2019. Additionally, the company is ready to grow by 25% next year using the current fleet if the supply to KEF changes as drastically as it currently looks with the downsizing of WOW. It is also monitoring possible service to LAX following WW's departure.

Link, unfortunately only in Icelandic: http://www.visir.is/g/2018181219163/ice ... d-fjordung

Will be exciting to follow FI's progress in longer range routes now that WOW's 99$ fares have gone from those markets! My only question is what aircraft these new long haul flights would use as the 767 fleet is already pretty extended.
Nothing compares to taking off in an empty 757 with full thrust!
 
TC957
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Re: Icelandair looking at India flights in W19

Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:30 am

Ha ! I thought FI would look at DEL & LAX now. Plenty of decent 763's about if they want more - maybe ex-HA frames. But surely a few 788's would be ideal for long & thin flights out of KEF. Will FI be tempted by a service to BJS and / or NRT ? Think of the fish produce they'll carry as cargo !
 
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ClassicLover
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Re: Icelandair looking at India flights in W19

Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:31 am

If Google translated the article correctly, it says they are going to grow by 9%, but could grow another 14% on top of that. It also says that the growth can come from the current fleet. I imagine this has to do with changing the banking of the flights and also by balancing the European network, which was in their latest financials.

The 757s at Icelandair are expected to stay through to the mid-2020s and incoming are the 737 MAX aircraft. If business continues to progress, then it will be interesting to see what aircraft is chosen to eventually replace the 757s.

Either way, Icelandair seems well positioned for the future, which is great. India should be interesting and it's a great step in the direction of not entirely relying on transatlantic.
I do enjoy a spot of flying, especially when it's not in economy!
 
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SRQKEF
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Re: Icelandair looking at India flights in W19

Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:37 am

ClassicLover wrote:
If Google translated the article correctly, it says they are going to grow by 9%, but could grow another 14% on top of that. It also says that the growth can come from the current fleet. I imagine this has to do with changing the banking of the flights and also by balancing the European network, which was in their latest financials.


Correct. This is all about opportunities to better manage their resources with the new hub banks.
Nothing compares to taking off in an empty 757 with full thrust!
 
royroy
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Re: Icelandair looking at India flights in W19

Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:54 am

Hi

Out of interest what are the new hub banks?

Thanks
 
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SRQKEF
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Re: Icelandair looking at India flights in W19

Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:58 am

royroy wrote:
Hi

Out of interest what are the new hub banks?

Thanks


Arrivals from N-America: 5-7am
Departures to Europe: 7-9am
Arrivals from N-America (new): 9-11am
Departures to Europe (new): 11am-1pm
Arrivals from Europe: 1-4pm
Departures to N-America: 4:30-6:30pm
Arrivals from Europe (new): 6-8pm
Departures to N-America (new): 8-10pm

This allows for quick turnarounds on longer N-American routes, as well as offering FI an opportunity to go deeper into Europe. Earlier, a European rotation needed to fit between 7am-4pm but now it can be 7am-8pm.
Nothing compares to taking off in an empty 757 with full thrust!
 
royroy
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Re: Icelandair looking at India flights in W19

Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:00 pm

Thank you for the reply.

I love the way Iceland air has developed their place in the market. It really is impressive to see
 
flylondon
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Re: Icelandair looking at India flights in W19

Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:23 pm

royroy wrote:

I love the way Iceland air has developed their place in the market. It really is impressive to see


They are unprofitable in an environment where the rest of the industry is reporting record profits. Not so impressive
 
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SRQKEF
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Re: Icelandair looking at India flights in W19

Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:27 pm

flylondon wrote:
royroy wrote:

I love the way Iceland air has developed their place in the market. It really is impressive to see


They are unprofitable in an environment where the rest of the industry is reporting record profits. Not so impressive


Hmm, why do you say Icelandair is unprofitable? Are you perhaps confusing them with WOW air?
Nothing compares to taking off in an empty 757 with full thrust!
 
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ClassicLover
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Re: Icelandair looking at India flights in W19

Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:33 pm

flylondon wrote:
They are unprofitable in an environment where the rest of the industry is reporting record profits. Not so impressive


They have been profitable every year for 2013 to 2017, though they have made a slight loss for 2018 Q1 to Q3 inclusive and are addressing that.

Higher fuel costs and lower average fares have hurt them this year. Fuel prices have been falling since October, and with WOW downsizing, these should help. The airline itself is also making improvements that should return the business to profit.

You can't make a sweeping statement that "the rest of the industry is reporting record profits" when some airlines are struggling and indeed going out of business. Market dynamics are not the same in every region of the world.
I do enjoy a spot of flying, especially when it's not in economy!
 
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OA940
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Re: Icelandair looking at India flights in W19

Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:55 pm

I get LAX, but DEL is a lower-yielding market. They should look at other places before that, like DXB or TLV. Also what is the possibility of them starting up flights to eastern Asia, like TYO, PEK, ICN or SIN?
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davidjohnson6
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Re: Icelandair looking at India flights in W19

Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:38 pm

If Icelandair flew to East Asia - eg Tokyo or Singapore, it would have to be about bringing tourists to see Iceland - yes I know about Asians visiting north Finland in winter on charters - business demand will be nil. Are there enough people to pay a high enough price for Asia-Iceland as a point-to-point scheduled service more than once per week ? Or would it perhaps be better served with ad hoc charters until there is clear evidence for demand to fill a scheduled service ?
 
a350lover
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Re: Icelandair looking at India flights in W19

Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:47 pm

OA940 wrote:
I get LAX, but DEL is a lower-yielding market. They should look at other places before that, like DXB or TLV. Also what is the possibility of them starting up flights to eastern Asia, like TYO, PEK, ICN or SIN?


Agree. Now that the Icelandic intercontinental market is obvious for every one is transforming quite a bit (and that includes the drop of the WOW's KEF-DEL route, after only a few weeks), is truly Delhi the market that Icelandair growing should first look at? I suspect no.
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Icelandair looking at India flights in W19

Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:17 pm

There is a major constraint on how far east into Asia that Icelandair can go - if flying trans-Pacific is shorter than trans-Atlantic then Icelandair can't make money. Go much further than India and that constraint starts to make itself known
 
hohd
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Re: Icelandair looking at India flights in W19

Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:02 pm

WOW air is exiting DEL only after 2 months of operation (last flight will be in Jan 2019) and now Iceland Air wants to try their luck. Perhaps they will be more successful as they have more experience and the rumor is that they will also take over some of the WOW air routes/operations. All these airlines are trying for the lucrative India-US/Canada traffic from DEL which already has lots of competition.
 
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SRQKEF
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Re: Icelandair looking at India flights in W19

Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:09 pm

hohd wrote:
WOW air is exiting DEL only after 2 months of operation (last flight will be in Jan 2019) and now Iceland Air wants to try their luck. Perhaps they will be more successful as they have more experience and the rumor is that they will also take over some of the WOW air routes/operations. All these airlines are trying for the lucrative India-US/Canada traffic from DEL which already has lots of competition.


WOW isn't exiting because DEL isn't working per se, it's just that their A330s are leaving the fleet due to financial reasons. Also, FI has a much more robust N-American network with regular services and more brand recognition. So those two are a whole different animal.
Nothing compares to taking off in an empty 757 with full thrust!
 
a350lover
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Re: Icelandair looking at India flights in W19

Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:18 pm

SRQKEF wrote:
WOW isn't exiting because DEL isn't working per se, it's just that their A330s are leaving the fleet due to financial reasons. Also, FI has a much more robust N-American network with regular services and more brand recognition. So those two are a whole different animal.


Is this DEL-KEF route an exotic add-on to the airport? Yes
Is this a cool route any aviation geek would choose to fly? Yes
Is it a logical move for Icelandair? Uhm.....
 
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SRQKEF
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Re: Icelandair looking at India flights in W19

Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:47 pm

a350lover wrote:
SRQKEF wrote:
WOW isn't exiting because DEL isn't working per se, it's just that their A330s are leaving the fleet due to financial reasons. Also, FI has a much more robust N-American network with regular services and more brand recognition. So those two are a whole different animal.


Is this DEL-KEF route an exotic add-on to the airport? Yes
Is this a cool route any aviation geek would choose to fly? Yes
Is it a logical move for Icelandair? Uhm.....


If you look over FI's route additions, they generally are a very conservative carrier. If they end up adding Indian flights (remember, it could also be BOM or even a smaller gateway) I'm 100% sure they've done the math. They're well known in key markets such as BOS, NYC, CHI, SEA and WAS and they'd also be both the shortest and probably cheapest option from smaller markets such as YEG. It could take some time to mature, but FI has a much stronger starting position for a route to India than WOW ever did. They've been contemplating flights to Asia for decades, if they pull the trigger this time it's no question they know what they're doing.

regards!
Sveinn :)
Nothing compares to taking off in an empty 757 with full thrust!
 
maps4ltd
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Re: Icelandair looking at India flights in W19

Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:51 pm

FI needs to go into some markets that WW exited. We here in STL would welcome an Icelandair 752 nonstop to Keflavik, as FI is far sturdier than WW. I hope that these new hub banks allow FI more options.
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a350lover
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Re: Icelandair looking at India flights in W19

Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:58 pm

SRQKEF wrote:

If you look over FI's route additions, they generally are a very conservative carrier. If they end up adding Indian flights (remember, it could also be BOM or even a smaller gateway) I'm 100% sure they've done the math. They're well known in key markets such as BOS, NYC, CHI, SEA and WAS and they'd also be both the shortest and probably cheapest option from smaller markets such as YEG. It could take some time to mature, but FI has a much stronger starting position for a route to India than WOW ever did. They've been contemplating flights to Asia for decades, if they pull the trigger this time it's no question they know what they're doing.

regards!
Sveinn :)


Your first sentence is what makes me think this is not a big match on Icelandair's network. BUT, I can be wrong, sure.
 
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kanban
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Re: Icelandair looking at India flights in W19

Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:37 pm

This isn't about passengers, it's about exporting fish!!!! :duck: :duck:
 
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c933103
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Re: Icelandair looking at India flights in W19

Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:40 pm

Why not simply take over WOW's route now that Icelandair is acquiring WOW?
It's pointless to attempt winning internet debate 求同存異 よく見て・よく聞いて・よく考える
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UPNYGuy
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Re: Icelandair looking at India flights in W19

Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:45 pm

c933103 wrote:
Why not simply take over WOW's route now that Icelandair is acquiring WOW?


Icelandair is not acquiring WOW.
 
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SRQKEF
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Re: Icelandair looking at India flights in W19

Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:58 pm

c933103 wrote:
Why not simply take over WOW's route now that Icelandair is acquiring WOW?


That deal was dead in November. WOW got an investment from Indigo Partners instead, and is shrinking it fleet from 20 to 11 aircraft with only A320 series aircraft left. You can read the reasons in various WOW financial discussion threads on this site. :)
Nothing compares to taking off in an empty 757 with full thrust!
 
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spinotter
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Re: Icelandair looking at India flights in W19

Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:35 pm

SRQKEF wrote:
c933103 wrote:
Why not simply take over WOW's route now that Icelandair is acquiring WOW?


That deal was dead in November. WOW got an investment from Indigo Partners instead, and is shrinking it fleet from 20 to 11 aircraft with only A320 series aircraft left. You can read the reasons in various WOW financial discussion threads on this site. :)


I didn't know that the FI-WW deal was dead until now. The same Indigo as with Frontier Airlines, right? So do people think that WOW can turn around? Is Indigo calling the shots now? I flew through KEF via Icelandair last fall, and that was one crowded airport at certain times. I wondered how two airlines could have a hub there. It would be a lot more comfortable and maybe profitable with just FI, IMHO.
 
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SRQKEF
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Re: Icelandair looking at India flights in W19

Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:51 pm

spinotter wrote:
SRQKEF wrote:
c933103 wrote:
Why not simply take over WOW's route now that Icelandair is acquiring WOW?


That deal was dead in November. WOW got an investment from Indigo Partners instead, and is shrinking it fleet from 20 to 11 aircraft with only A320 series aircraft left. You can read the reasons in various WOW financial discussion threads on this site. :)


I didn't know that the FI-WW deal was dead until now. The same Indigo as with Frontier Airlines, right? So do people think that WOW can turn around? Is Indigo calling the shots now? I flew through KEF via Icelandair last fall, and that was one crowded airport at certain times. I wondered how two airlines could have a hub there. It would be a lot more comfortable and maybe profitable with just FI, IMHO.


While Skuli Mogensen is still the majority owner due to European ownership rules, the word on the street is that Indigo is indeed pulling the strings now. However, the deal isn’t finalised as the due diligence report still isn’t complete.

I think WOW can turn around, but it would be a totally different strategy than before. Slower growth, and no chance at all of widebodies returning to the fleet.
Nothing compares to taking off in an empty 757 with full thrust!
 
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HELyes
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Re: Icelandair looking at India flights in W19

Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:15 pm

davidjohnson6 wrote:
If Icelandair flew to East Asia - eg Tokyo or Singapore, it would have to be about bringing tourists to see Iceland - yes I know about Asians visiting north Finland in winter on charters - business demand will be nil. Are there enough people to pay a high enough price for Asia-Iceland as a point-to-point scheduled service more than once per week ? Or would it perhaps be better served with ad hoc charters until there is clear evidence for demand to fill a scheduled service ?


Actually the Asians visiting Finnish Lapland arrive on scheduled flights, not charters. The charters come from Europe, UK especially. It looks an increasing number of Asians continue from HEL to KEF, this was the main reason AY opened KEF with their own metal. Asian tourists usually want to visit several destinations during their trip, not sure how well the direct KEF flights would fit in that.
 
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SRQKEF
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Re: Icelandair looking at India flights in W19

Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:23 pm

davidjohnson6 wrote:
If Icelandair flew to East Asia - eg Tokyo or Singapore, it would have to be about bringing tourists to see Iceland - yes I know about Asians visiting north Finland in winter on charters - business demand will be nil. Are there enough people to pay a high enough price for Asia-Iceland as a point-to-point scheduled service more than once per week ? Or would it perhaps be better served with ad hoc charters until there is clear evidence for demand to fill a scheduled service ?


Well, I agree that TYO-USA via KEF makes little to no sense. However, looking at great circle routes, KEF is a surprisingly competitive stopover point for SIN-East Coast routes:

Image

This would also work for many other SE Asian destinations. Given the large number of destinations FI serves in the Eastern part of North America, SIN could actually be a success for them down the line if India proves to work.
Nothing compares to taking off in an empty 757 with full thrust!
 
BML87
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Re: Icelandair looking at India flights in W19

Tue Dec 18, 2018 2:05 am

SRQKEF wrote:
they'd also be both the shortest and probably cheapest option from smaller markets such as YEG


Cheaper probably, but YEG-YVR-DEL is a lot shorter than YEG-KEF-DEL.
 
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SRQKEF
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Re: Icelandair looking at India flights in W19

Tue Dec 18, 2018 2:38 am

BML87 wrote:
SRQKEF wrote:
they'd also be both the shortest and probably cheapest option from smaller markets such as YEG


Cheaper probably, but YEG-YVR-DEL is a lot shorter than YEG-KEF-DEL.


It's a grand total of 350 statute miles shorter, which is around 0:30 hrs in the air. So not a lot shorter by any means, especially given FI's setup of their hub operation ensures the connection is probably 60-120 minutes. And Edmonton was just an example, FI serves more similar markets with little to no price competition to India and a similar or shorter trip length via KEF vs other gateways.
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ClassicLover
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Re: Icelandair looking at India flights in W19

Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:25 am

SRQKEF wrote:
It's a grand total of 350 statute miles shorter, which is around 0:30 hrs in the air. So not a lot shorter by any means, especially given FI's setup of their hub operation ensures the connection is probably 60-120 minutes. And Edmonton was just an example, FI serves more similar markets with little to no price competition to India and a similar or shorter trip length via KEF vs other gateways.


It's all a moot point isn't it, considering Icelandair doesn't have aircraft to operate the services? Their fleet is pretty much fully utilised.
I do enjoy a spot of flying, especially when it's not in economy!
 
marcogr12
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Re: Icelandair looking at India flights in W19

Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:15 pm

I wonder how FI hasnt tried southeuropean routes to ATH,FCO,LCA,TLV where admittedly some of them could work year-round as winter sun destinations...And Reykjavik is a dream destination for lots of people in the Med, although a...tad too expensive i should say but still!
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lightsaber
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Re: Icelandair looking at India flights in W19

Wed Dec 19, 2018 2:30 pm

SRQKEF wrote:
royroy wrote:
Hi

Out of interest what are the new hub banks?

Thanks


Arrivals from N-America: 5-7am
Departures to Europe: 7-9am
Arrivals from N-America (new): 9-11am
Departures to Europe (new): 11am-1pm
Arrivals from Europe: 1-4pm
Departures to N-America: 4:30-6:30pm
Arrivals from Europe (new): 6-8pm
Departures to N-America (new): 8-10pm

This allows for quick turnarounds on longer N-American routes, as well as offering FI an opportunity to go deeper into Europe. Earlier, a European rotation needed to fit between 7am-4pm but now it can be 7am-8pm.

Thank you. This will allow new routes that couldn't fit in the prior bank schedule as well as better aircraft utilization for many routes.

This will put pressure on WoW. I respect Indigo partners, but this is going for the juggular.

And will allow for increased transport of fish. ;)

Lightsaber
7 months without TV. The best decision of my life.
 
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SRQKEF
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Re: Icelandair looking at India flights in W19

Wed Dec 19, 2018 3:07 pm

marcogr12 wrote:
I wonder how FI hasnt tried southeuropean routes to ATH,FCO,LCA,TLV where admittedly some of them could work year-round as winter sun destinations...And Reykjavik is a dream destination for lots of people in the Med, although a...tad too expensive i should say but still!


That's because they always only had the one hub bank that only allowed 3,5 hrs flights into Europe due to the required rotation times. Expect some Spanish/Italian routes and even flights further East in the near future, especially once more MAXes arrive. :)
Nothing compares to taking off in an empty 757 with full thrust!
 
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SRQKEF
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Re: Icelandair looking at India flights in W19

Wed Dec 19, 2018 3:08 pm

lightsaber wrote:
SRQKEF wrote:
royroy wrote:
Hi

Out of interest what are the new hub banks?

Thanks


Arrivals from N-America: 5-7am
Departures to Europe: 7-9am
Arrivals from N-America (new): 9-11am
Departures to Europe (new): 11am-1pm
Arrivals from Europe: 1-4pm
Departures to N-America: 4:30-6:30pm
Arrivals from Europe (new): 6-8pm
Departures to N-America (new): 8-10pm

This allows for quick turnarounds on longer N-American routes, as well as offering FI an opportunity to go deeper into Europe. Earlier, a European rotation needed to fit between 7am-4pm but now it can be 7am-8pm.

Thank you. This will allow new routes that couldn't fit in the prior bank schedule as well as better aircraft utilization for many routes.

This will put pressure on WoW. I respect Indigo partners, but this is going for the juggular.

And will allow for increased transport of fish. ;)

Lightsaber


Exactly, they can now get fish all across Europe! :mrgreen:
Nothing compares to taking off in an empty 757 with full thrust!

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