usflyguy
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WN 8750 over pacific

Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:43 am

Flightradar24.com is showing WN 8750 as having taken off from OAK at 8:04pm and headed westbound out over the pacific. 8750 flight number is usually related to a maintenance ferry flight, is this a ETOPS proving flight or a flightradar24 error? It shows that it is a 737-800. Or is this possibly the aircraft that was involved in the incident in BUR on a post-repair test flight?

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/SWA ... /KOAK/KOAK
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kabq737
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Re: WN 8750 over pacific

Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:45 am

I think that the aircraft in the BUR incident was a 700 so it must not have to do with that.
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SWADawg
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Re: WN 8750 over pacific

Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:49 am

The BUR Aircraft was a -700, so that wouldn’t be it. I suppose it’s possibly related to ETOPS, but it really could be anything. It’s really hard to make an accurate assessment from a Flightradar24 radar plot.
My posts are my opinion only and do not reflect the views of Southwest Airlines
 
Amchi757300
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Re: WN 8750 over pacific

Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:49 am

kabq737 wrote:
I think that the aircraft in the BUR incident was a 700 so it must not have to do with that.


Some kind of hawaii test flight / for internal ops data crossing the pacific with a gnarly headwind?
 
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September11
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Re: WN 8750 over pacific

Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:52 am

Inflight testing of AoA sensors?
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KMCOFlyer
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Re: WN 8750 over pacific

Wed Dec 19, 2018 5:02 am

Looks like it is a Hawaii ETOPS test flight, still flying west and heading straight for Hawaii.
 
joeblow10
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Re: WN 8750 over pacific

Wed Dec 19, 2018 5:06 am

Interesting... FlightAware shows he’s filed to essentially do a “square” loop, fly out then down then back over LA and back up the coast to OAK.

Possibly ETOPS assuming that range off the coast is “provable” (and that the filing isn’t a dummy flight plan and he actually won’t just go straight for HI or turn around for OAK further on)
Last edited by joeblow10 on Wed Dec 19, 2018 5:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
737MAX7
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Re: WN 8750 over pacific

Wed Dec 19, 2018 5:06 am

Seems weird it’s only at FL270
 
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flyer1225
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Re: WN 8750 over pacific

Wed Dec 19, 2018 5:07 am

Would also appear (based on the FlightAware history) that this is a flight number regularly used for test flights.
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Yonderlust
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Re: WN 8750 over pacific

Wed Dec 19, 2018 5:17 am

He's turned South now.
 
arfbool
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Re: WN 8750 over pacific

Wed Dec 19, 2018 5:29 am

The Burbank craft (N752SW) was evidently taken to Kansas City 4 days ago, per Flightaware.
 
barney captain
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Re: WN 8750 over pacific

Wed Dec 19, 2018 5:32 am

N8319F is an ETOPS -800
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PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: WN 8750 over pacific

Wed Dec 19, 2018 5:35 am

 
B52overSMF
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Re: WN 8750 over pacific

Wed Dec 19, 2018 5:44 am

I'm not going to lie, this was interesting but my interest was piqued more when I saw on the map that SOFIA was flying near it:
https://www.flightradar24.com/NASA747/1eea8545 :bouncy:
 
Amchi757300
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Re: WN 8750 over pacific

Wed Dec 19, 2018 7:12 am

B52overSMF wrote:
I'm not going to lie, this was interesting but my interest was piqued more when I saw on the map that SOFIA was flying near it:
https://www.flightradar24.com/NASA747/1eea8545 :bouncy:


Ha! me too!
 
strfyr51
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Re: WN 8750 over pacific

Wed Dec 19, 2018 7:33 am

usflyguy wrote:
Flightradar24.com is showing WN 8750 as having taken off from OAK at 8:04pm and headed westbound out over the pacific. 8750 flight number is usually related to a maintenance ferry flight, is this a ETOPS proving flight or a flightradar24 error? It shows that it is a 737-800. Or is this possibly the aircraft that was involved in the incident in BUR on a post-repair test flight?

https://flightaware.com/live//SWA8750/h ... /KOAK/KOAK

Maintenance ferry flights are VERY Specific numbers and require special releases ONLY by qualified maintenance personnel for VERY specific purposes. A Proving run might have a similar flight numbers but it will NOT be a designated Maintenance ferry flight. It cannot also have non maintenance personnel on board (flight attendants).. However? other test flights Proving Runs etc. May have all these things on them and operate on a similar flight number but they will operate under Part 121 and not Part 91 or 121 supplemental.. It also takes specifically trained personnel to even release a Maintenance test or ferry flight. whereas most Line mechanics might release a Proving run flight as it does require a maintenance release just like a srevenue flight.
 
MD80Ttail
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Re: WN 8750 over pacific

Wed Dec 19, 2018 7:41 am

Hawaii is such a saturated market. Obviously WN feels the expense of gaining ETOPs cert is worth the costs associated and there is a business plan developed to be profitable. I wonder if their Hawaii ops will be sustainable? Wonder if they will try to compete interisland high frequency as well?
 
WPvsMW
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Re: WN 8750 over pacific

Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:13 am

The network planners at NW have already thought through all your Qs, and steer a steady course toward positive yields... lots of WN FFs on the West Coast who will prefer WN.
 
strfyr51
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Re: WN 8750 over pacific

Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:45 am

MD80Ttail wrote:
Hawaii is such a saturated market. Obviously WN feels the expense of gaining ETOPs cert is worth the costs associated and there is a business plan developed to be profitable. I wonder if their Hawaii ops will be sustainable? Wonder if they will try to compete interisland high frequency as well?

Those SAME ETOPS qualifications? Could also take them to Europe as well So that is worth the Effort. Gaining ETOPS could take them from BWI-LHR, BWI-STN, BWI-CDG as well..
 
JFKCMILAXFLL
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Re: WN 8750 over pacific

Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:54 pm

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:


All WN 738s in the 8300 series are supposed to be ETOPS.
 
wnflyguy
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Re: WN 8750 over pacific

Wed Dec 19, 2018 2:07 pm

Well hopefully we will find out something today if this was or wasn't a Proving flight.
If WN was given the green light to start proving flights hopefully they will go public with actual confirmation today.
Going off of VX Etops certification process they were only a few days between starting test flights and ticket sales.
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b747400erf
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Re: WN 8750 over pacific

Wed Dec 19, 2018 2:14 pm

It never went above FL280 and filed oak-oak hardly an etops proving flight
 
flyguy84
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Re: WN 8750 over pacific

Wed Dec 19, 2018 2:23 pm

Maintenance test flight. Next.

And to claim this is “over the Pacific” is laughable. More like off the coast of California.
SFO
 
wnflyguy
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Re: WN 8750 over pacific

Wed Dec 19, 2018 2:26 pm

b747400erf wrote:
It never went above FL280 and filed oak-oak hardly an etops proving flight


Is there a minimum flight level for proving flights?
3 Hr flight out over Pacific for a MX Hop that just happens to be a ETOPS 7378NG is Way out of WN normal procedures.

Flyguy
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
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TWA302
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Re: WN 8750 over pacific

Wed Dec 19, 2018 2:32 pm

[threeid][/threeid]
flyguy84 wrote:
Maintenance test flight. Next.

And to claim this is “over the Pacific” is laughable. More like off the coast of California.


Which ocean is off the coast of CA? The Pacific. So why is that laughable? :roll:
 
flyguy84
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Re: WN 8750 over pacific

Wed Dec 19, 2018 2:47 pm

TWA302 wrote:
[threeid][/threeid]
flyguy84 wrote:
Maintenance test flight. Next.

And to claim this is “over the Pacific” is laughable. More like off the coast of California.


Which ocean is off the coast of CA? The Pacific. So why is that laughable? :roll:

Because it insinuated that it was out in deep water. There are WN flights every day that fly off the coast and over the water so I guess we should start a thread for each one over “the pacific!”
SFO
 
flyguy84
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Re: WN 8750 over pacific

Wed Dec 19, 2018 2:51 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
b747400erf wrote:
It never went above FL280 and filed oak-oak hardly an etops proving flight


Is there a minimum flight level for proving flights?
3 Hr flight out over Pacific for a MX Hop that just happens to be a ETOPS 7378NG is Way out of WN normal procedures.

Flyguy

It’s not abnormal at all. ATC prefers this area for test flights as it’s less congested. They could have been testing critical aircraft systems or testing flight controls after a major repair, etc.
SFO
 
SWADawg
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Re: WN 8750 over pacific

Wed Dec 19, 2018 2:51 pm

Channeling my inner wnflyguy. Rumor is that it was either an FAA ETOPS Proving flight with a Directed Divert which is a requirement for ETOPS Certification or it was a Flight out to the FIR Boundary to test oceanic procedures with CPDLC and HF which is also ETOPS related with a scheduled return to OAK. Either scenario seems plausible with the flight track that was displayed. Either way, it does indeed appear that tabletop exercises may have concluded and WN has potentially moved into validation flights. I think we will know more in the coming weeks.
Last edited by SWADawg on Wed Dec 19, 2018 2:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
My posts are my opinion only and do not reflect the views of Southwest Airlines
 
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Re: WN 8750 over pacific

Wed Dec 19, 2018 2:52 pm

flyguy84 wrote:
TWA302 wrote:
[threeid][/threeid]
flyguy84 wrote:
Maintenance test flight. Next.

And to claim this is “over the Pacific” is laughable. More like off the coast of California.


Which ocean is off the coast of CA? The Pacific. So why is that laughable? :roll:

Because it insinuated that it was out in deep water. There are WN flights every day that fly off the coast and over the water so I guess we should start a thread for each one over “the pacific!”


So, where does "off the coast" stop and "over the Pacific" begin? (Just for future reference...)
 
kiowa
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Re: WN 8750 over pacific

Wed Dec 19, 2018 2:55 pm

WPvsMW wrote:
The network planners at NW have already thought through all your Qs, and steer a steady course toward positive yields... lots of WN FFs on the West Coast who will prefer WN.



Not sure what Northwest planners would have to do with this but even though some FF people like WN, I would never chose to fly in a 737 for over 2 hours. Other airlines fly to Hawaii in larger aircraft and I always chose them over the cramped 737.
 
Redwood839
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Re: WN 8750 over pacific

Wed Dec 19, 2018 3:12 pm

kiowa wrote:
WPvsMW wrote:
The network planners at NW have already thought through all your Qs, and steer a steady course toward positive yields... lots of WN FFs on the West Coast who will prefer WN.



Not sure what Northwest planners would have to do with this but even though some FF people like WN, I would never chose to fly in a 737 for over 2 hours. Other airlines fly to Hawaii in larger aircraft and I always chose them over the cramped 737.


I fly 737's on LAX-HNL all the time, they're perfectly fine.
 
N766UA
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Re: WN 8750 over pacific

Wed Dec 19, 2018 3:20 pm

kiowa wrote:
WPvsMW wrote:
The network planners at NW have already thought through all your Qs, and steer a steady course toward positive yields... lots of WN FFs on the West Coast who will prefer WN.



Not sure what Northwest planners would have to do with this but even though some FF people like WN, I would never chose to fly in a 737 for over 2 hours. Other airlines fly to Hawaii in larger aircraft and I always chose them over the cramped 737.


So would you choose a 757 over a 737, for example? Hmmmmbecause it’s the exact same fusulage size and United and AA run a pile of 757’s to Hawaii...
 
cledaybuck
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Re: WN 8750 over pacific

Wed Dec 19, 2018 3:24 pm

kiowa wrote:
WPvsMW wrote:
The network planners at NW have already thought through all your Qs, and steer a steady course toward positive yields... lots of WN FFs on the West Coast who will prefer WN.



Not sure what Northwest planners would have to do with this but even though some FF people like WN, I would never chose to fly in a 737 for over 2 hours. Other airlines fly to Hawaii in larger aircraft and I always chose them over the cramped 737.
That's certainly your right, but you are severely limiting your options as the majority of flights to HI are on narrowbody aircraft. 737 to Hawaii is just fine for most people (including myself).
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nagpaw
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Re: WN 8750 over pacific

Wed Dec 19, 2018 3:26 pm

flyguy84 wrote:
Because it insinuated that it was out in deep water. There are WN flights every day that fly off the coast and over the water so I guess we should start a thread for each one over “the pacific!”


I've flown along the Pacific Coast for SWA several hundred times at least, and I've never been to a point 374nm (or about 45 minutes flying time) west of Oakland. Could you please provide an example of when you have been out there on a revenue flight? I'd be curious to learn under what circumstances our dispatchers file us out that far.

Also, the ocean depths in the area of N37 W130 appear to be between approximately 4,500 and 5,500 feet. I'm curious what you consider "deep."
 
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TWA302
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Re: WN 8750 over pacific

Wed Dec 19, 2018 3:40 pm

flyguy84 wrote:
TWA302 wrote:
[threeid][/threeid]
flyguy84 wrote:
Maintenance test flight. Next.

And to claim this is “over the Pacific” is laughable. More like off the coast of California.


Which ocean is off the coast of CA? The Pacific. So why is that laughable? :roll:

Because it insinuated that it was out in deep water. There are WN flights every day that fly off the coast and over the water so I guess we should start a thread for each one over “the pacific!”


Not with a flight number in the 8000's and flying for nearly four hours. And that water in the Cordell Bank and other nearby areas gets past 2k ft. :stirthepot:
 
737MAX7
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Re: WN 8750 over pacific

Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:18 pm

Apparently this was an oceanic procedures flight for ETOPS certification. Sounds like proving runs to Hawaii will start in the next week or two.
 
Silver1SWA
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Re: WN 8750 over pacific

Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:25 pm

flyguy84 wrote:
Maintenance test flight. Next.

And to claim this is “over the Pacific” is laughable. More like off the coast of California.


To be fair, when I first saw the thread and clicked the link the aircraft had been heading west for 45 minutes and had not turned yet so it appeared to be heading out “over the Pacific.”
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
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adamblang
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Re: WN 8750 over pacific

Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:28 pm

N766UA wrote:
kiowa wrote:
I would never chose to fly in a 737 for over 2 hours. Other airlines fly to Hawaii in larger aircraft and I always chose them over the cramped 737.


So would you choose a 757 over a 737, for example? Hmmmmbecause it’s the exact same fusulage size and United and AA run a pile of 757’s to Hawaii...

Different strokes for different folks. Don't know why we get into arguments over people's personal preferences on this board.
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Re: WN 8750 over pacific

Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:29 pm

strfyr51 wrote:
MD80Ttail wrote:
Hawaii is such a saturated market. Obviously WN feels the expense of gaining ETOPs cert is worth the costs associated and there is a business plan developed to be profitable. I wonder if their Hawaii ops will be sustainable? Wonder if they will try to compete interisland high frequency as well?

Those SAME ETOPS qualifications? Could also take them to Europe as well So that is worth the Effort. Gaining ETOPS could take them from BWI-LHR, BWI-STN, BWI-CDG as well..


Why fly into LHR? Slots are expensive there. WN doesn't interline, so the connection possibilities of LHR aren't useful. Even when LHR gets a third runway, slots will still be quite expensive.
 
Aptivaboy
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Re: WN 8750 over pacific

Wed Dec 19, 2018 5:28 pm

Because it insinuated that it was out in deep water. There are WN flights every day that fly off the coast and over the water so I guess we should start a thread for each one over “the pacific!”


They flew about 20% of the way westbound, roughly. That's both overwater and over very deep water. That's definitely "over the Pacific!"
 
GatorClark
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Re: WN 8750 over pacific

Wed Dec 19, 2018 5:38 pm

Redwood839 wrote:
kiowa wrote:
WPvsMW wrote:
The network planners at NW have already thought through all your Qs, and steer a steady course toward positive yields... lots of WN FFs on the West Coast who will prefer WN.



Not sure what Northwest planners would have to do with this but even though some FF people like WN, I would never chose to fly in a 737 for over 2 hours. Other airlines fly to Hawaii in larger aircraft and I always chose them over the cramped 737.


I fly 737's on LAX-HNL all the time, they're perfectly fine.


I fly on 737's all the time on flights over two hours.. I usually fly WN from RSW-MDW which is blocked at 3.5.
 
barney captain
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Re: WN 8750 over pacific

Wed Dec 19, 2018 6:16 pm

flyguy84 wrote:
Maintenance test flight. Next.

And to claim this is “over the Pacific” is laughable. More like off the coast of California.


It was - in fact - not a mx test flight.

It was the precursor to the proving runs where they validated the communication and navigation suite with Oakland Oceanic.

Next. :sarcastic:
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kiowa
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Re: WN 8750 over pacific

Wed Dec 19, 2018 6:55 pm

adamblang wrote:
N766UA wrote:
kiowa wrote:
I would never chose to fly in a 737 for over 2 hours. Other airlines fly to Hawaii in larger aircraft and I always chose them over the cramped 737.


So would you choose a 757 over a 737, for example? Hmmmmbecause it’s the exact same fusulage size and United and AA run a pile of 757’s to Hawaii...

Different strokes for different folks. Don't know why we get into arguments over people's personal preferences on this board.



agreed. it is just my personal preference.
 
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usxguy
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Re: WN 8750 over pacific

Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:25 pm

Anyone have some popcorn? This is better than watching Real Housewives on Bravo.

Btw, good catch to the OP. Would be interesting to see what happens over the next few days, if anything else.

On a side note, a friend at AA was telling me that LAX-ANC is considered "international" because of how far off shore they fly, the planes apparently have to have ETOPS-like equipment and have an international flight crew on board (because of the HF radios). Does AA have ETOPS on their 737-800s? I don't think I've ever seen an AA 738 to Hawai'i - just the mishmash of 757/767/777 and now the A321s.
xx
 
USAirALB
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Re: WN 8750 over pacific

Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:13 pm

usxguy wrote:
Anyone have some popcorn? This is better than watching Real Housewives on Bravo.

Btw, good catch to the OP. Would be interesting to see what happens over the next few days, if anything else.

On a side note, a friend at AA was telling me that LAX-ANC is considered "international" because of how far off shore they fly, the planes apparently have to have ETOPS-like equipment and have an international flight crew on board (because of the HF radios). Does AA have ETOPS on their 737-800s? I don't think I've ever seen an AA 738 to Hawai'i - just the mishmash of 757/767/777 and now the A321s.

That’s interesting. Although HP flew to Alaska for a while on A319s that weren’t overwater equipped (I think they didn’t even have life vests-only seat cushions). Maybe they took a route more over land.

None of AAs 738s are ETOPS.
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Cubsrule
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Re: WN 8750 over pacific

Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:31 pm

USAirALB wrote:
usxguy wrote:
Anyone have some popcorn? This is better than watching Real Housewives on Bravo.

Btw, good catch to the OP. Would be interesting to see what happens over the next few days, if anything else.

On a side note, a friend at AA was telling me that LAX-ANC is considered "international" because of how far off shore they fly, the planes apparently have to have ETOPS-like equipment and have an international flight crew on board (because of the HF radios). Does AA have ETOPS on their 737-800s? I don't think I've ever seen an AA 738 to Hawai'i - just the mishmash of 757/767/777 and now the A321s.

That’s interesting. Although HP flew to Alaska for a while on A319s that weren’t overwater equipped (I think they didn’t even have life vests-only seat cushions). Maybe they took a route more over land.

None of AAs 738s are ETOPS.


The great circle route PHX-ANC stays pretty close to land. For instance, it essentially overflies the northwest tip of Vancouver island. It’s easily doable without rafts.
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Chugach
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Re: WN 8750 over pacific

Thu Dec 20, 2018 3:17 am

usxguy wrote:
Anyone have some popcorn? This is better than watching Real Housewives on Bravo.

Btw, good catch to the OP. Would be interesting to see what happens over the next few days, if anything else.

On a side note, a friend at AA was telling me that LAX-ANC is considered "international" because of how far off shore they fly, the planes apparently have to have ETOPS-like equipment and have an international flight crew on board (because of the HF radios). Does AA have ETOPS on their 737-800s? I don't think I've ever seen an AA 738 to Hawai'i - just the mishmash of 757/767/777 and now the A321s.


You can always tell when AS has an ETOPS plane on ANC-LAX because they take a shortcut over the ocean. Otherwise they hug the cost the whole way.
 
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usxguy
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Re: WN 8750 over pacific

Thu Dec 20, 2018 4:17 am

Chugach wrote:
usxguy wrote:
Anyone have some popcorn? This is better than watching Real Housewives on Bravo.

Btw, good catch to the OP. Would be interesting to see what happens over the next few days, if anything else.

On a side note, a friend at AA was telling me that LAX-ANC is considered "international" because of how far off shore they fly, the planes apparently have to have ETOPS-like equipment and have an international flight crew on board (because of the HF radios). Does AA have ETOPS on their 737-800s? I don't think I've ever seen an AA 738 to Hawai'i - just the mishmash of 757/767/777 and now the A321s.


You can always tell when AS has an ETOPS plane on ANC-LAX because they take a shortcut over the ocean. Otherwise they hug the cost the whole way.


Didn't realize that, for some reason I thought all of AS's 738s were ETOPS

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/ASA ... /PANC/KLAX etops

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/ASA ... /PANC/KLAX Non-etops?

Plus, aren't WN's 737's already EOW? ETOPS would then just be a mechnical upgrade, right?
xx
 
barney captain
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Re: WN 8750 over pacific

Thu Dec 20, 2018 5:57 am

usxguy wrote:
Plus, aren't WN's 737's already EOW? ETOPS would then just be a mechnical upgrade, right?


All of our a/c have life vests which gets us out to 162nm from shore on the east coast, and 100nm on the west. Some a/c (not many) have rafts as well, which allows ops to 60 minutes from a suitable airport. The etops a/c (28) have all of the above as well as the etops equipment (satcom, cpdlc, HF, dual batteries etc...).
Last edited by barney captain on Thu Dec 20, 2018 6:25 am, edited 2 times in total.
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chrisair
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Re: WN 8750 over pacific

Thu Dec 20, 2018 6:15 am

barney captain wrote:
It was - in fact - not a mx test flight.

It was the precursor to the proving runs where they validated the communication and navigation suite with Oakland Oceanic.


Isn’t validating the navigation and communications equipment a type of maintenance proving flight?

Couldn’t resist. :lol:

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