phlsfo wrote:*Angel starts playing in the background of a panning shot of the DXB ramp*
"Hi, I'm Sarah McLachlan. Every day dozens of A380's are abused by flying them into over-saturated markets. These poor aircraft only want to be filled up with happy travelers, only to have their hopes dashed multiple times a day by poor load factors. For only the small gift of $1 a day, you can symbolically adopt an A380 of your own in a show of support for these majestic machines. They need your help. Call now."
Sorry, this is the first thing that popped into my head when I heard "A380 Abuse"
WIederling wrote:DFW17L wrote:I'm surprised you didn't include shots of puppies and kittens.
Don't you hear them whining in the background? ( subliminal!
RalXWB wrote:Are people still mad that EK did not order 100 748s? When people think about EK they think about the 380. It is their flagship.
ytz wrote:Uggh. Has this topic not been discussed to death already? Every 6 months.... "How can EK own so many A380s and fill them?"
OP. Have you ever looked at map of the world? And I am absolutely serious in asking that question. I am sick of this topic coming up every 6 months from people who don't seem to have looked at a globe recently.
10 hrs flight time from Dubai in any direction gives EK a catchment area of over 6 billion people. 16 hrs practically covers most of the world's population:
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?R=4500nm%40d ... =wls&DU=mi
In short, Dubai has a massive geographical advantage on connecting many secondary and primary cities together efficiently. And every destination they add to EK's network adds value (and demand) to every other destination they serve. If EK hadn't done it, somebody else in the Middle East would have. The only city that might have a geographical advantage over Dubai is Istanbul. And the new ISL and TK are going to give DXB and EK a run for its money.
Beyond geography and all the talk of union bans, state ownership, etc. the other big advantage that EK has over their developed world counterparts in Europe and the US, is that it is benefiting from the economic centre of the world shifting to Asia and trade flow migrating with it. It sits between emerging China-Africa trade. It sits between India and Europe. And between Europe and Southeast Asia. I often get the sense when these topics come up that ignorant Westerners just don't understand the economic shift happening and how much aviation demand is growing in these parts of the world.
TheKennady2 wrote:I used to live in the Middle east,
TheKennady2 wrote:have been to Dubai, India, China and Africa and i also am well aware of the global shift in those regions but this still does or answer all the questions about EKs tactics with A380 use as it still seems overkill
TheKennady2 wrote:ALSO i agree About TK and IST, as QR and EY just wont be able to compete long term on the Level EK can with DWC in the future.
PW100 wrote:Antarius wrote:EK had a LF of 77% in FY 2017-18.
77% of their a380 is 20 seats more than a 77W. Losing 20 low yielding pax isn't a big deal and EK can right size several routes to increase their LF. Thats why they want the 787-10Antarius wrote:winGl3t wrote:Thinking about 20-30 years down the road, with what they will replace A380 while mantaining lower CASM than competitors?
With a 77% LF they can fly a a350 or 78J right now with a lower CASM. Fast forward a few years and add the 777X to the list too.
They may need to leave a handful of passengers behind, but losing 10 people on 500 USD round trips is going to help them more than hurt them.
It's not that easy of course, since "downgrading" also will mean giving up quite * a lot of * premium seats. The quoted pax delta between 78J/350/777 vs A380 is not made up of 20 times $500 round trips.
One of the reasons EK has (and can afford) lower LF, is because of the sheer size of their premium cabins (not to mention the bonus of a full premium upper deck). Industry wide (not just EK), premium load factors are lower than cattle class LF. Which is perfectly OK, this is one of he reasons there are (much) more expensive in first place.
While they may very well be able to absorb the loss of 20 low yield pax at 500 USD, losing 10 or even 5 high premium customers at 3000 - 8000 US will hurt them. Not to mention that those pax are usually much more loyal than your average 500$ return trip customer, and these valuable customers may now start looking elsewhere for their next trip.
Going back to 787/350 (from A380) will mean a significant reduction in premium seats, en an even heavier reduction in premium income.
As others have pointed out, EK doesn't have frequency. Which is a big part of why larger aircraft work for them. Everything about their operation depends on feeding their transfer banks. I will add to this that EK has an absolutely massive network and a single hub. That is why they can have 80% LF on A380s to places like BCN. They are literally shuttling the one family that wants to go from COK and the businessman from IKA and the college student from JKT and putting them on a flight to BCN. There is a multiplier effect as their network grows. Every city they add to their network, adds demand to every other spoke in the network, driving up average aircraft size. This is no different than CX and SQ and other single hub carriers. EK just happens to be more favourably located than those two.
upperdeckfan wrote:Figures shown on this recent thread have EK loads out of BCN averaging around 80% until August. That means 100+ empty seats on a 500+ seats A380
Aither wrote:Trafic between Africa and Asia x4 in 5 years...and people saying EK should replace A380 with smaller aircraft...?
fjmm92 wrote:upperdeckfan wrote:Figures shown on this recent thread have EK loads out of BCN averaging around 80% until August. That means 100+ empty seats on a 500+ seats A380
Barcelona is the first spanish destination for Emirates:
Until november 2018 (passangers carried):
Madrid: 480,823 pax
Barcelona: 507,698 pax
So, as you can see with this numbers, A380s to/from MAD had more empty seats than from/to BCN.
JayBCNLON wrote:What’s the industry average load factor ? 75%? So The entire airline industry is an „abuse“? Just because in absolute terms 100 seats sounds like a lot EK is abusing the A380 ? Of course you have empty seats! And of course you have empty seats on EK and on A380s too, and lots of them because the average load factor is less than 100% and the A380 is a big plane. But you have 4 times as many seats filled on average. Nothing to see here and by no means any sort of „abuse“. Can’t believe this term is being used in this context and on a.net.
The passenger load factor (PLF) of commercial airlines has risen significantly over the past decade. In 2005, airlines had an average load factor of 75.2%, so on average, just three out of every four seats were sold. The recession of 2007-2010 stopped load factor growth. But by 2018, the average airline load factor hit 81.7% worldwide.
OA940 wrote:Think about it. EK has a HUMONGUS connecting business. They fly to tons of secondary cities, and offer relatively competitive prices for their flights. They have the reputation which most definitely helps them. And to be honest they have earned it. Sure their Business Class on the 777 is outdated, but they have great service. First Class on them is just bliss, and they have a fairly great Economy Class as well.
So they will attract those looking to fly, for example, from Birmingham to Singapore, from Delhi to Fort Lauderdale/Miami, from Lagos to Milan etc. and all the people looking to go only to/from Dubai. I have a lot of friends/family who have flown them (always in Y) and they always make it seem like such a big deal (I mean compared to the experience they'd have on, say, BA, it definitely is quite the experience), which really comes to show you how much their reputation has helped them. And for the record the only flights they operate I've heard are consistently not packed to the brim are MXP-JFK and ATH-EWR in the off season (and even that isn't always the case, as a friend who flew ATH-EWR a couple of weeks ago told me the westbound was quite packed, while the return was quite empty).
P.S. Sure their government may have given them some cash, but that happens with every airline that has ties to its government, so it's either a big deal for everyone or not.
parapente wrote:Bottom line is they took a phenomenal risk at the beginning as with the whole Dubai project,but it has paid off.Most people here only have praise for them and rightly so.If their overall load factor is a little below the average -Well so be it.They only have two sizes of aircaft (obviously this is going to change).But they are still growing and still knocking out competitors.They need that spare capacity.
Furthermore they could fill bucket loads of 380's to Canada,Germany,India and indeed others if the governments of those countries didn't interfere with normal business competition.
If there were shares in this business I would buy some for sure.
Can't see it adds up to 'abuse'.
When announcing the latest results, Sheikh Ahmed bin Saeed Al Maktoum, chairman of the airline, said “The bleak global economic outlook appears to be the new norm, with no immediate resolution in sight… We know we have to work even harder for every customer, and make every dollar spent go even further.”
WIederling wrote:Revelation wrote:Fleet wide one out of five seats is empty.
There's a big disparity between "packed to the brim" and 22.5% empty seats fleet wide day in and day out.
1 out of 5 is 20%, 1 fifth of 100.
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