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phlsfo
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Re: EK A380 Abuse?

Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:08 pm

*Angel starts playing in the background of a panning shot of the DXB ramp*

"Hi, I'm Sarah McLachlan. Every day dozens of A380's are abused by flying them into over-saturated markets. These poor aircraft only want to be filled up with happy travelers, only to have their hopes dashed multiple times a day by poor load factors. For only the small gift of $1 a day, you can symbolically adopt an A380 of your own in a show of support for these majestic machines. They need your help. Call now."



Sorry, this is the first thing that popped into my head when I heard "A380 Abuse" :lol:
 
DFW17L
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Re: EK A380 Abuse?

Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:32 pm

phlsfo wrote:
*Angel starts playing in the background of a panning shot of the DXB ramp*

"Hi, I'm Sarah McLachlan. Every day dozens of A380's are abused by flying them into over-saturated markets. These poor aircraft only want to be filled up with happy travelers, only to have their hopes dashed multiple times a day by poor load factors. For only the small gift of $1 a day, you can symbolically adopt an A380 of your own in a show of support for these majestic machines. They need your help. Call now."



Sorry, this is the first thing that popped into my head when I heard "A380 Abuse" :lol:


I'm surprised you didn't include shots of puppies and kittens.
 
WIederling
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Re: EK A380 Abuse?

Thu Dec 20, 2018 4:22 pm

DFW17L wrote:
I'm surprised you didn't include shots of puppies and kittens.

Don't you hear them whining in the background? ( subliminal! :-)
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EChid
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Re: EK A380 Abuse?

Thu Dec 20, 2018 5:03 pm

WIederling wrote:
DFW17L wrote:
I'm surprised you didn't include shots of puppies and kittens.

Don't you hear them whining in the background? ( subliminal! :-)

There are actually scenes of various puppies squeezed into 16" seats on 10-across 777 seats shown throughout, contrasted with them frolicking on a set of A380 stairs.
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RalXWB
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Re: EK A380 Abuse?

Thu Dec 20, 2018 5:31 pm

Are people still mad that EK did not order 100 748s? :rotfl: When people think about EK they think about the 380. It is their flagship.
 
lhrnue
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Re: EK A380 Abuse?

Thu Dec 20, 2018 5:37 pm

They pay people to fly on them ... for my last flight I got 541 EUR.
 
TheKennady2
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Re: EK A380 Abuse?

Thu Dec 20, 2018 6:02 pm

RalXWB wrote:
Are people still mad that EK did not order 100 748s? :rotfl: When people think about EK they think about the 380. It is their flagship.


And amazing at that, more of a PR and advertising piece than a absolutely needed on many routes. I never seen anything on the level of EK's A380 use.
 
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Re: EK A380 Abuse?

Thu Dec 20, 2018 6:32 pm

It would be interesting to see if anyone had any LF figures for F/J on their own and Y separately, given how much of revenue comes from the front (or in this case top) of the cabin.
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eta unknown
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Re: EK A380 Abuse?

Thu Dec 20, 2018 6:54 pm

Yes but the top cabin revenue isn't what it used to be either...
 
ytz
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Re: EK A380 Abuse?

Thu Dec 20, 2018 11:09 pm

Uggh. Has this topic not been discussed to death already? Every 6 months.... "How can EK own so many A380s and fill them?"

OP. Have you ever looked at map of the world? And I am absolutely serious in asking that question. I am sick of this topic coming up every 6 months from people who don't seem to have looked at a globe recently.

10 hrs flight time from Dubai in any direction gives EK a catchment area of over 6 billion people. 16 hrs practically covers most of the world's population:

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?R=4500nm%40d ... =wls&DU=mi

In short, Dubai has a massive geographical advantage on connecting many secondary and primary cities together efficiently. And every destination they add to EK's network adds value (and demand) to every other destination they serve. If EK hadn't done it, somebody else in the Middle East would have. The only city that might have a geographical advantage over Dubai is Istanbul. And the new ISL and TK are going to give DXB and EK a run for its money.

Beyond geography and all the talk of union bans, state ownership, etc. the other big advantage that EK has over their developed world counterparts in Europe and the US, is that it is benefiting from the economic centre of the world shifting to Asia and trade flow migrating with it. It sits between emerging China-Africa trade. It sits between India and Europe. And between Europe and Southeast Asia. I often get the sense when these topics come up that ignorant Westerners just don't understand the economic shift happening and how much aviation demand is growing in these parts of the world.
 
TheKennady2
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Re: EK A380 Abuse?

Thu Dec 20, 2018 11:45 pm

ytz wrote:
Uggh. Has this topic not been discussed to death already? Every 6 months.... "How can EK own so many A380s and fill them?"

OP. Have you ever looked at map of the world? And I am absolutely serious in asking that question. I am sick of this topic coming up every 6 months from people who don't seem to have looked at a globe recently.

10 hrs flight time from Dubai in any direction gives EK a catchment area of over 6 billion people. 16 hrs practically covers most of the world's population:

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?R=4500nm%40d ... =wls&DU=mi

In short, Dubai has a massive geographical advantage on connecting many secondary and primary cities together efficiently. And every destination they add to EK's network adds value (and demand) to every other destination they serve. If EK hadn't done it, somebody else in the Middle East would have. The only city that might have a geographical advantage over Dubai is Istanbul. And the new ISL and TK are going to give DXB and EK a run for its money.

Beyond geography and all the talk of union bans, state ownership, etc. the other big advantage that EK has over their developed world counterparts in Europe and the US, is that it is benefiting from the economic centre of the world shifting to Asia and trade flow migrating with it. It sits between emerging China-Africa trade. It sits between India and Europe. And between Europe and Southeast Asia. I often get the sense when these topics come up that ignorant Westerners just don't understand the economic shift happening and how much aviation demand is growing in these parts of the world.


I used to live in the Middle east, have been to Dubai, India, China and Africa and i also am well aware of the global shift in those regions but this still does or answer all the questions about EKs tactics with A380 use as it still seems overkill even though DXB has alot going for it. This is why we have forms to share info and ask questions. But A unique situation and circumstances EK takes advantage of. ALSO i agree About TK and IST, as QR and EY just wont be able to compete long term on the Level EK can with DWC in the future.
 
ytz
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Re: EK A380 Abuse?

Fri Dec 21, 2018 12:05 am

TheKennady2 wrote:
I used to live in the Middle east,


And how long ago was that? Because I find it hard to believe that you lived there, were aware of how much trade is changing and are still asking this question.


TheKennady2 wrote:
have been to Dubai, India, China and Africa and i also am well aware of the global shift in those regions but this still does or answer all the questions about EKs tactics with A380 use as it still seems overkill


As others have pointed out, EK doesn't have frequency. Which is a big part of why larger aircraft work for them. Everything about their operation depends on feeding their transfer banks. I will add to this that EK has an absolutely massive network and a single hub. That is why they can have 80% LF on A380s to places like BCN. They are literally shuttling the one family that wants to go from COK and the businessman from IKA and the college student from JKT and putting them on a flight to BCN. There is a multiplier effect as their network grows. Every city they add to their network, adds demand to every other spoke in the network, driving up average aircraft size. This is no different than CX and SQ and other single hub carriers. EK just happens to be more favourably located than those two.


TheKennady2 wrote:
ALSO i agree About TK and IST, as QR and EY just wont be able to compete long term on the Level EK can with DWC in the future.


I fully expect a merger of EY and EK as soon as the two respective royal families can come to some kind of agreement over sharing the new merged carrier and DWC.

As for QR. It's quite simple. EK and Dubai in general had first mover advantage. It was always going to very difficult for any follow-on cities/states to replicate that model. The Qataris also made the mistake of thinking that they can grow an airline without growing an interesting city and economy as well. The Dubai Emiratis were wiser than that. And they've grown and diversified Dubai in conjunction with EK. In short, Dubai is effectively the Singapore of the Middle East. And the best that the Qataris can ever hope for is that Doha becomes the KUL of the Middle East.
 
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Re: EK A380 Abuse?

Fri Dec 21, 2018 12:33 am

PW100 wrote:
Antarius wrote:
EK had a LF of 77% in FY 2017-18.

77% of their a380 is 20 seats more than a 77W. Losing 20 low yielding pax isn't a big deal and EK can right size several routes to increase their LF. Thats why they want the 787-10


Antarius wrote:
winGl3t wrote:
Thinking about 20-30 years down the road, with what they will replace A380 while mantaining lower CASM than competitors?


With a 77% LF they can fly a a350 or 78J right now with a lower CASM. Fast forward a few years and add the 777X to the list too.

They may need to leave a handful of passengers behind, but losing 10 people on 500 USD round trips is going to help them more than hurt them.


It's not that easy of course, since "downgrading" also will mean giving up quite * a lot of * premium seats. The quoted pax delta between 78J/350/777 vs A380 is not made up of 20 times $500 round trips.

One of the reasons EK has (and can afford) lower LF, is because of the sheer size of their premium cabins (not to mention the bonus of a full premium upper deck). Industry wide (not just EK), premium load factors are lower than cattle class LF. Which is perfectly OK, this is one of he reasons there are (much) more expensive in first place.

While they may very well be able to absorb the loss of 20 low yield pax at 500 USD, losing 10 or even 5 high premium customers at 3000 - 8000 US will hurt them. Not to mention that those pax are usually much more loyal than your average 500$ return trip customer, and these valuable customers may now start looking elsewhere for their next trip.

Going back to 787/350 (from A380) will mean a significant reduction in premium seats, en an even heavier reduction in premium income.



Bingo! we have a winner. The obsession here has been Load Factor or CASM. Nobody talked about revenue generation potential. And I can tell you, if you want a seat on those A380s during the peak of the European Summer from Australia, Particularly to poplar destinations like MAD, BCN, FCO etc... you need to get in early and you're still gonna be up for at lease $7500 bucks for business. I worked in the HQ of a major travel agency and I saw people stuck when they had to return urgently and we couldn't get them back, not even in first. You booked on Lufthansa or Finnair and you could shave thousands off that. Now that may be peak season but they're not giving away tickets then. But with those huge First and Business class particularly cabins largely filled.... in the quieter times a few less economy passengers isn't a concern. That's where they'll discount. Because quite a few of those people will stop over and fill those DXB hotels and spend money in their restaurants and Mega shopping malls.

Now as for the smaller aircraft. There were some routes like ARN that were an abuse of the 77L. They previously did have a smaller aircraft, the A332, but due to Dubai's congestion at peak up times it had to go. The 787-10 will free up the 77L to increase frequency to the americas on smaller routes or maybe start new routes like CHC direct.

To sum up why did Northwest use the ageing DC-9 on routes other airlines were using more modern regional jets on despite its higher operating costs? Well it didn't feel old after interior upgrades, but more importantly it could carry a hell of a lot more cargo and offer more First Class seats. That meant more revenue.
 
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Re: EK A380 Abuse?

Fri Dec 21, 2018 12:38 am

ytz wrote:
\
As others have pointed out, EK doesn't have frequency. Which is a big part of why larger aircraft work for them. Everything about their operation depends on feeding their transfer banks. I will add to this that EK has an absolutely massive network and a single hub. That is why they can have 80% LF on A380s to places like BCN. They are literally shuttling the one family that wants to go from COK and the businessman from IKA and the college student from JKT and putting them on a flight to BCN. There is a multiplier effect as their network grows. Every city they add to their network, adds demand to every other spoke in the network, driving up average aircraft size. This is no different than CX and SQ and other single hub carriers. EK just happens to be more favourably located than those two.

Thing is, the numbers say they have a 77.5% load factor across all routes and all platforms, not just A380s to BCN, and their fleet wide load average has been below 80% for a decade now. It does suggest that some fine tuning of what routes get A380s ( and in turn, how many more A380s get taken going forward ) should be expected, especially given that they are taking 777Xs with improved economy and Airbus has not been able to offer any improvements on the A380.
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Re: EK A380 Abuse?

Fri Dec 21, 2018 4:41 am

If the issue is really premium demand, that suggests that they should replace a number of A380s with Super Hi J 777-9s with J all the way back to the L3/R3 doors (or... wait for it... 80 m 777-10X configured the same). BA, the Japanese majors, and on a smaller scale AA/UA have proven that a super-premium product mix can work on the few routes that are truly appropriate for it.
 
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Re: EK A380 Abuse?

Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:23 am

Trafic between Africa and Asia x4 in 5 years...and people saying EK should replace A380 with smaller aircraft...?
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JayBCNLON
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Re: EK A380 Abuse?

Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:39 am

What’s the industry average load factor ? 75%? So The entire airline industry is an „abuse“? Just because in absolute terms 100 seats sounds like a lot EK is abusing the A380 ? Of course you have empty seats! And of course you have empty seats on EK and on A380s too, and lots of them because the average load factor is less than 100% and the A380 is a big plane. But you have 4 times as many seats filled on average. Nothing to see here and by no means any sort of „abuse“. Can’t believe this term is being used in this context and on a.net.
 
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Re: EK A380 Abuse?

Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:02 am

upperdeckfan wrote:
Figures shown on this recent thread have EK loads out of BCN averaging around 80% until August. That means 100+ empty seats on a 500+ seats A380

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1405065


Barcelona is the first spanish destination for Emirates:

Until november 2018 (passangers carried):

Madrid: 480,823 pax
Barcelona: 507,698 pax

So, as you can see with this numbers, A380s to/from MAD had more empty seats than from/to BCN.
 
jupiter2
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Re: EK A380 Abuse?

Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:11 am

Aither wrote:
Trafic between Africa and Asia x4 in 5 years...and people saying EK should replace A380 with smaller aircraft...?


At what level did the number start and how many African cities see the EK 380 ?

You also seem to think that only EK offers a viable service between African cities and Asia. There are plenty of nonstop flights available compared to a decade ago, as well as all the connecting options through the Middle East and Turkey.
 
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Re: EK A380 Abuse?

Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:30 am

In the growth phase of most new products/companies losses are incurred.In this case not losses but low margins.But the key growth aspect has been met.Scale is the key to the 'one stop to and from anywhere'.The more destinations you have the better it works.If you cannot make that scale -Qatar - the strategy fails.
They have created various marketing USP's.Dubai itself is obviously one.But the A380 as Sir Tim constantly reminds us is a very big other.
People love flying this aircaft.It represents particularly good value to Y pax.He has got it - the others haven't /can't.
I am sure SirT would accept that 77% load factor is not enough long term.But it's fine right now.It also gives him capacity to fight others and generate new traffic.From a profit perspective the drop in oil price will deliver an increase in margined next year anyway.
It's hard ( I think) to criticise a strategy that has been and is so enormously successful.
 
upperdeckfan
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Re: EK A380 Abuse?

Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:31 am

fjmm92 wrote:
upperdeckfan wrote:
Figures shown on this recent thread have EK loads out of BCN averaging around 80% until August. That means 100+ empty seats on a 500+ seats A380

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1405065


Barcelona is the first spanish destination for Emirates:

Until november 2018 (passangers carried):

Madrid: 480,823 pax
Barcelona: 507,698 pax

So, as you can see with this numbers, A380s to/from MAD had more empty seats than from/to BCN.


So what? is this a thread about BCN vs. MAD or about EK business model and their large A380 fleet?

I was just quoting someone who said that EK's BCN-DXB were always full.

To your point, no surprise to me EK doing better at BCN than MAD, I'd guess QR doing better at MAD than BCN due to the much larger OW customer base.
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Re: EK A380 Abuse?

Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:49 pm

JayBCNLON wrote:
What’s the industry average load factor ? 75%? So The entire airline industry is an „abuse“? Just because in absolute terms 100 seats sounds like a lot EK is abusing the A380 ? Of course you have empty seats! And of course you have empty seats on EK and on A380s too, and lots of them because the average load factor is less than 100% and the A380 is a big plane. But you have 4 times as many seats filled on average. Nothing to see here and by no means any sort of „abuse“. Can’t believe this term is being used in this context and on a.net.

Your data is out of date. https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelgol ... time-high/ says:

The passenger load factor (PLF) of commercial airlines has risen significantly over the past decade. In 2005, airlines had an average load factor of 75.2%, so on average, just three out of every four seats were sold. The recession of 2007-2010 stopped load factor growth. But by 2018, the average airline load factor hit 81.7% worldwide.

Ref: https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelgol ... time-high/

The problem for EK is an empty seat costs more on an A380 than it does on an A350/787/777X. The anyone to anywhere strategy needs bleeding edge efficiency to work well, and A380 is falling behind in that regard, with no improvement on offer any time soon, if at all.
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BGS91762
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Re: EK A380 Abuse?

Fri Dec 21, 2018 3:04 pm

Guess all those empty seats are contributing to Dubai on the way to becoming the busiest international airport in the world. I’ve been in EK A380 several times are they were always full or close to it.
 
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Re: EK A380 Abuse?

Fri Dec 21, 2018 3:44 pm

Think about it. EK has a HUMONGUS connecting business. They fly to tons of secondary cities, and offer relatively competitive prices for their flights. They have the reputation which most definitely helps them. And to be honest they have earned it. Sure their Business Class on the 777 is outdated, but they have great service. First Class on them is just bliss, and they have a fairly great Economy Class as well.

So they will attract those looking to fly, for example, from Birmingham to Singapore, from Delhi to Fort Lauderdale/Miami, from Lagos to Milan etc. and all the people looking to go only to/from Dubai. I have a lot of friends/family who have flown them (always in Y) and they always make it seem like such a big deal (I mean compared to the experience they'd have on, say, BA, it definitely is quite the experience), which really comes to show you how much their reputation has helped them. And for the record the only flights they operate I've heard are consistently not packed to the brim are MXP-JFK and ATH-EWR in the off season (and even that isn't always the case, as a friend who flew ATH-EWR a couple of weeks ago told me the westbound was quite packed, while the return was quite empty).

P.S. Sure their government may have given them some cash, but that happens with every airline that has ties to its government, so it's either a big deal for everyone or not.
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parapente
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Re: EK A380 Abuse?

Fri Dec 21, 2018 4:09 pm

Bottom line is they took a phenomenal risk at the beginning as with the whole Dubai project,but it has paid off.Most people here only have praise for them and rightly so.If their overall load factor is a little below the average -Well so be it.They only have two sizes of aircaft (obviously this is going to change).But they are still growing and still knocking out competitors.They need that spare capacity.
Furthermore they could fill bucket loads of 380's to Canada,Germany,India and indeed others if the governments of those countries didn't interfere with normal business competition.
If there were shares in this business I would buy some for sure.
Can't see it adds up to 'abuse'.
 
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Re: EK A380 Abuse?

Fri Dec 21, 2018 5:30 pm

OA940 wrote:
Think about it. EK has a HUMONGUS connecting business. They fly to tons of secondary cities, and offer relatively competitive prices for their flights. They have the reputation which most definitely helps them. And to be honest they have earned it. Sure their Business Class on the 777 is outdated, but they have great service. First Class on them is just bliss, and they have a fairly great Economy Class as well.

So they will attract those looking to fly, for example, from Birmingham to Singapore, from Delhi to Fort Lauderdale/Miami, from Lagos to Milan etc. and all the people looking to go only to/from Dubai. I have a lot of friends/family who have flown them (always in Y) and they always make it seem like such a big deal (I mean compared to the experience they'd have on, say, BA, it definitely is quite the experience), which really comes to show you how much their reputation has helped them. And for the record the only flights they operate I've heard are consistently not packed to the brim are MXP-JFK and ATH-EWR in the off season (and even that isn't always the case, as a friend who flew ATH-EWR a couple of weeks ago told me the westbound was quite packed, while the return was quite empty).

P.S. Sure their government may have given them some cash, but that happens with every airline that has ties to its government, so it's either a big deal for everyone or not.

Thing is, the numbers disagree with you.

Fleet wide one out of five seats is empty.

There's a big disparity between "packed to the brim" and 22.5% empty seats fleet wide day in and day out.

parapente wrote:
Bottom line is they took a phenomenal risk at the beginning as with the whole Dubai project,but it has paid off.Most people here only have praise for them and rightly so.If their overall load factor is a little below the average -Well so be it.They only have two sizes of aircaft (obviously this is going to change).But they are still growing and still knocking out competitors.They need that spare capacity.
Furthermore they could fill bucket loads of 380's to Canada,Germany,India and indeed others if the governments of those countries didn't interfere with normal business competition.
If there were shares in this business I would buy some for sure.
Can't see it adds up to 'abuse'.

I'm not sure that is true.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/dominicdud ... at-an-end/ gives us:

When announcing the latest results, Sheikh Ahmed bin Saeed Al Maktoum, chairman of the airline, said “The bleak global economic outlook appears to be the new norm, with no immediate resolution in sight… We know we have to work even harder for every customer, and make every dollar spent go even further.”

The article mentions introducing PE to generate more revenue, which IMHO means they'll probably reduce pitch elsewhere to drive business into PE.

Personally, I think taking a large fleet of 787-10s and a move to PE indicates they see the long range growth has peaked and they need a more efficient people bomber to keep more nimble regional competitors from undermining their business model.
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Slug71
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Re: EK A380 Abuse?

Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:02 pm

With air travel expected to double in the 2030s, EK is going to be in a very good position.
 
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Re: EK A380 Abuse?

Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:16 pm

Revelation wrote:
Fleet wide one out of five seats is empty.

There's a big disparity between "packed to the brim" and 22.5% empty seats fleet wide day in and day out.


1 out of 5 is 20%, 1 fifth of 100.
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Re: EK A380 Abuse?

Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:48 pm

What's the current prediction of EY and EK. "dissolve" or "be absorbed"? Can the EY bend the knee?
 
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Re: EK A380 Abuse?

Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:52 pm

WIederling wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Fleet wide one out of five seats is empty.

There's a big disparity between "packed to the brim" and 22.5% empty seats fleet wide day in and day out.


1 out of 5 is 20%, 1 fifth of 100.

If you read along the actual load factor is 77.5%, and I rounded off to get one out of five since fractional seats aren't really a thing, but thanks for the pedantry.

Either way EK can't be said to be "packed to the brim" when their load factor is below the industry average.
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TheKennady2
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Re: EK A380 Abuse?

Fri Dec 21, 2018 11:53 pm

Slug71 wrote:
With air travel expected to double in the 2030s, EK is going to be in a very good position.


Indeed
 
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Re: EK A380 Abuse?

Sat Dec 22, 2018 8:44 am

It will be interesting to see whether their 787-10's are instead of some 777x's or in addition.They did say the present airport was already 'full' in terms of useful slots so quite where the 10's would go if they were in addition is hard to guess.
But yes it may well be a realisation that their long haul routes are approaching saturation.Its is hard to see what destinations they are missing other than ones they are banned from using by governments.
Think there are plenty of secondary/tertiary ones in Europe/Asia for the 10's.Perhaps they will take some 9's for the US secondary cities?
 
avier
Posts: 915
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:38 pm

Re: EK A380 Abuse?

Sat Dec 22, 2018 9:42 am

Also to consider, did EK order so many a380's being confident they'd get access to all the markets easily? They are restricted (by bilateral seat count/frequency) to the billion+ countries since a long time. Add to that Canada. Not sure of other markets where they are restricted bilaterally. So that automatically has restricted their potential into those catchment areas.
So do take note of these things for those who talk of their catchment areas.
 
parapente
Posts: 3061
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:42 pm

Re: EK A380 Abuse?

Sat Dec 22, 2018 11:26 am

I guess they are confident with the numbers they are using at the moment.A lot of their fleet is on 12 year leases if - over time they need to reduce then they can.But there is no sign of this right now.As above their load factors aren't bad and if in a years time they rise back to 80% then there is no discussion anyrate.In any event it looks like their seat count will reduce a little when they introduce premium.
 
directorguy
Posts: 1362
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:58 am

Re: EK A380 Abuse?

Sun Dec 23, 2018 8:03 am

EK/DXB has very strong local O&D demand. On the India and Middle East routes alone a significant number will originate or terminate in Dubai, as on the key Euro routes (in the UK for example) that form the core EK network. With strong local demand guaranteed to fill at least half the plane EK was able to fine tune schedules to allow for connectivity and build a hub on. That is in addition to Dubai stopovers for people going from say China to Europe who make use of attractive offers to stay in Dubai for a few days thanks to easy visas, lots of hotels to choose from etc. Sure we hear stories of 8 people on off the SGN flght waiting for their bags in Dubai but those flights are a minority.
Contrast this with QR or EY- how many peole actually need to go from Miami to Doha?

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