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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:25 pm

Interesting discussion guys, thanks. (And special thanks to you, Silver', for answering the call and providing your unique perspective. I assume you haven't headed west yet?)

The ticket counter arrangement in T1 is an intriguing question.

But first, I just want to repeat that all my thinking about the future of T1 is based on the rumor that WN was poised to take over both rotundas in T1. I have yet to see any confirmation of that fact, or a timeline for that matter but it makes a lot of sense to me, and I would expect it to be a done deal by June, when WN's summer sked with at least 130 daily departures from SDIA kicks in! Also, the rumor did state that gates 1-2 were to be kept as 'surplus', overflow, future use if necessary, and were not expected to be actively used by WN. That's all I remember being said. So IF they could end up being used by F9, or ????, I don't know. It just seems to make sense to me and seems like a good idea. F9 sometimes skeds A321s at SAN so whether that a/c type could even work at gate 1, I don't know. And would 320s be able to use 1A as overflow? (Of course B6 would have the same unknowns...)

Concerning ticket counters, I suppose WN could offer split counters at both ends of the lobby of T1; there will certainly be plenty of room at the west end once AS leaves, and where F9 lives now. IF a cx, including F9, were to start using gates 1/1A, it would be nice for them to have check-in counters at the east end of T1 so perhaps WN would surrender some of their current counter space there if they open more counters in the current AS location (west end.)

I think WN definitely could use more counter/check-in space. I've been to SAN on major holiday weekends when the lines for WN (ticket counters, TSA, etc.) reached all the way back past the baggage claim area, nearly to the West rotunda TSA check! So I think WN having 2 check-in counters would make a lot of sense.

I still think some sort of shuttle needs to be put in place between T1W and T1E; no matter how careful WN gate control is about keeping connecting pax' planes in the same terminal, I don't see how it would always work out. Even a few connecting pax having to re-clear TSA is an awful situation and simply shouldn't ever happen.

Regarding other cx moving into T1 at some point, I think everyone else is pretty much settled in where they are. I do know that B6 WAS expected to move into T1W but I have no idea what's up with them. Perhaps they might move into the Gate 1 complex? G4 is now in T2E and NK (doing more receding than growing here recently) seems happy in T2W. Once February arrives, and AS has moved from T1W to T2E, maybe we'll start to get some of these questions answered when pieces start falling into place...

Waiting for more rumors and announcements...

bb
 
blacksoviet
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:38 pm

Silver1SWA wrote:
SANFan wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
Can the Frontier A321 fit into Gate 11? If not, then I guess Frontier will have to stay at Gate 12. They could also move to the Eastern Spur. I believe Gate 2 can handle a A321.

The main problem with WN's (or anyone's) use of gate 2 is that it very much crowds gate 3 (on the rotunda.) I'm not sure that WN can currently use those 2 gates at the same time! Perhaps Silver1SWA can jump in and explain the situation with gates 1-1A-2 regarding WN. He would know first-hand!



WN briefly ran -800s out of gate 2 when they first entered the fleet but because of the significant uphill grade it became a tipping risk. I believe the stop mark was moved up a bit to avoid conflict with gate 3 but it really is very tight at 2 and 3 with the current configuration. So 1A, 1 and 2 are -700s only.

That said, there are plans to significantly expand our T-Point (Bag Room) which will extend into the gate 2 ramp space and last I heard (plans keep delaying/changing) gate 2 will be eliminated.

I’ve heard rumors of 1A and 1 going to another airline like Frontier but I have no idea how that would work.

I think the best idea is to have Frontier move to Gate 1A and Allegiant move to Gate 1. Gate 1A can handle Frontier A321s while Gate 1 can handle Allegiant A320s. This way, Southwest can gain full control of both banjos. It looks like Terminal 2 East will be around a lot longer than Terminal 1.
 
Silver1SWA
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:55 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
Silver1SWA wrote:
SANFan wrote:
The main problem with WN's (or anyone's) use of gate 2 is that it very much crowds gate 3 (on the rotunda.) I'm not sure that WN can currently use those 2 gates at the same time! Perhaps Silver1SWA can jump in and explain the situation with gates 1-1A-2 regarding WN. He would know first-hand!



WN briefly ran -800s out of gate 2 when they first entered the fleet but because of the significant uphill grade it became a tipping risk. I believe the stop mark was moved up a bit to avoid conflict with gate 3 but it really is very tight at 2 and 3 with the current configuration. So 1A, 1 and 2 are -700s only.

That said, there are plans to significantly expand our T-Point (Bag Room) which will extend into the gate 2 ramp space and last I heard (plans keep delaying/changing) gate 2 will be eliminated.

I’ve heard rumors of 1A and 1 going to another airline like Frontier but I have no idea how that would work.

I think the best idea is to have Frontier move to Gate 1A and Allegiant move to Gate 1. Gate 1A can handle Frontier A321s while Gate 1 can handle Allegiant A320s. This way, Southwest can gain full control of both banjos. It looks like Terminal 2 East will be around a lot longer than Terminal 1.


Unless they do some serious shifting of the gate zones there is a no way you could park an A321 at gate 1A. It’s a challenge getting a 737-700 in and out of there. I don’t even know if the ground-level jetways would reach that high.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
blacksoviet
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:17 am

Does anybody remember when there was a Gate 19? This gate was at the western end of Terminal 1. Does anybody remember which airline used this gate?
 
SANAV8R
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:46 am

blacksoviet wrote:
Does anybody remember when there was a Gate 19? This gate was at the western end of Terminal 1. Does anybody remember which airline used this gate?


The one gate that utilized staircases?

Skywest at one point (when it was 20)


An OAG guide from 10/91 says gate(s) 19A/B is America West

I know departed by stairs at that gate PITSAN in 2001 on US
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:49 pm

When T1 opened in March 1967, it was a 20 gate terminal; gate 20 was off the west end of the terminal building, just as gate 1 was off the east end.. That was of course before TSA and security checks so gates 19 & 20 were fit in to the left of the ticket counters at the west end of the terminal.

I remember too that HP used gate 19 for some period of time. And when T2E opened in July 1979, gate 20 was 'relocated' from T1 to T2. Gate 19 was eliminated eventually when security checkpoints became permanent features at US airports; for a while, and up until the gate went away, I believe the airport did have a baggage screening and rudimentary security check in place just to serve gate 19 departures. That was eliminated fairly soon and T1 became an 18 gate terminal.

Regarding the gates at the east end of T1, that whole tarmac area is very crowded and space-constrained. I really don't think the airport would be able to put more than one airline there. IMO, there is really room for 1 highly-usable gate but gate 2, as Silver' emphasized, can't really be used when gate 3 is occupied, and gate 1A is very constrained. (I don't think WN even uses it anymore except for RON parking or extreme overflow scenarios.)

I have no idea what AirBus models will fit into gate 1 or 1A or if both gates could even be used simultaneously. Blacksoviet you state that a F9 A321 will work in gate 1A; source please? I seriously doubt that is true. In fact, I don't think there have ever been any AirBi at any gates at the east end of T1...

bb
 
blacksoviet
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:26 pm

When will Terminal 2 East be demolished?
 
futuresdpdcop
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:21 pm

Regarding the gates at the east end of T1, that whole tarmac area is very crowded and space-constrained. I really don't think the airport would be able to put more than one airline there. IMO, there is really room for 1 highly-usable gate but gate 2, as Silver' emphasized, can't really be used when gate 3 is occupied, and gate 1A is very constrained. (I don't think WN even uses it anymore except for RON parking or extreme overflow scenarios.)

I have no idea what AirBus models will fit into gate 1 or 1A or if both gates could even be used simultaneously. Blacksoviet you state that a F9 A321 will work in gate 1A; source please? I seriously doubt that is true. In fact, I don't think there have ever been any AirBi at any gates at the east end of T1...

bb[/quote]
I just looked at San.org and there are 5 flights still this evening departing from 1A. I’m fact, 3 of my last 4 flights have used 1A for departure. If you gonsearch yourself, it won’t list Gate 1A on the airport website. It shows blank. But if you cross reference on the Southwest site, you can see the departures. I believe there are 2 flights to Vegas, 1 to SMF, 1 to TUS and I forgot the 5th.
 
Silver1SWA
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:18 am

SANFan wrote:
When T1 opened in March 1967, it was a 20 gate terminal; gate 20 was off the west end of the terminal building, just as gate 1 was off the east end.. That was of course before TSA and security checks so gates 19 & 20 were fit in to the left of the ticket counters at the west end of the terminal.

I remember too that HP used gate 19 for some period of time. And when T2E opened in July 1979, gate 20 was 'relocated' from T1 to T2. Gate 19 was eliminated eventually when security checkpoints became permanent features at US airports; for a while, and up until the gate went away, I believe the airport did have a baggage screening and rudimentary security check in place just to serve gate 19 departures. That was eliminated fairly soon and T1 became an 18 gate terminal.

Regarding the gates at the east end of T1, that whole tarmac area is very crowded and space-constrained. I really don't think the airport would be able to put more than one airline there. IMO, there is really room for 1 highly-usable gate but gate 2, as Silver' emphasized, can't really be used when gate 3 is occupied, and gate 1A is very constrained. (I don't think WN even uses it anymore except for RON parking or extreme overflow scenarios.)

I have no idea what AirBus models will fit into gate 1 or 1A or if both gates could even be used simultaneously. Blacksoviet you state that a F9 A321 will work in gate 1A; source please? I seriously doubt that is true. In fact, I don't think there have ever been any AirBi at any gates at the east end of T1...

bb


We actually use gate 1A full time now. It used to handle the international departures but due to high connecting volume they moved them to the rotunda.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
SANAV8R
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:37 am

SANFan wrote:
In fact, I don't think there have ever been any AirBi at any gates at the east end of T1...

bb


Continental maybe? They had gates 1 & 2 at one point and occasionally used A300 back in the late 80s to early 90s.


My other guess would be possibly United? They were in the east rotunda of T1 at one point before moving to the west rotunda, before they moved to T2. They didn't receive their first Airbus (A320) until late 1993 and the earliest record either photo or OAG guide of them using A320 into SAN is 1995.
 
crescent
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:52 am

Someone wrote on the AS thread that AS would move from Terminal 1 to Terminal 2 East and get 7 gates there. Is this possible? Are there 7 open gates anywhere in T2?
 
SANMAN66
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:24 am

SANAV8R wrote:

My other guess would be possibly United? They were in the east rotunda of T1 at one point.


I remember in the early 80s when United used the East rotunda and the UA 747s and DC-10s often used the gates that were closest to the taxiway. I can't remember the gate #
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crescent
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:34 am

jplatts wrote:
WN is likely going to be offering connections to AUS, MDW, DAL, DEN, HOU, MCI, LAS, PHX, and SAT from Hawaii through SAN by Summer 2019.


No it won't. All the Hawaii flights will depart CA in the morning, then go interisland, then return to CA around 1-2pm. There is no sane way to schedule flights westbound to SAN to connect to an early morning departure to HI.

To do connections, you must presume the aircraft returns from HI on a red-eye; WN is reluctant to do that.
 
timf
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:44 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
When will Terminal 2 East be demolished?

Not until the final phase of the master plan, once Terminal 1 is fully rebuilt.
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:56 pm

Silver1SWA wrote:
We actually use gate 1A full time now. It used to handle the international departures but due to high connecting volume they moved them to the rotunda.

Thanks for that Silver1'. I constantly check the SAN.org Flight Status page and it never shows any activity in gate 1A -- for arrivals or departures. Some WN flights come up with no gate assignments so maybe those are the ones that end up using gate 1A. I made an assumption that was incorrect and I appreciate your correction. And I know you know the details of WN's current ops.

(I also appreciate input on this sub-topic from others.)

crescent wrote:
All the Hawaii flights will depart CA in the morning, then go interisland, then return to CA around 1-2pm. There is no sane way to schedule flights westbound to SAN to connect to an early morning departure to HI.

To do connections, you must presume the aircraft returns from HI on a red-eye; WN is reluctant to do that.

Source please?

This is the most detailed info I've seen anywhere regarding WN's upcoming HI schedules and it does differ from past rumors about what we might see in SAN.

Even the inter-Island remark references an on-going debate all over A.net about whether or not WN will do any inter-Island flying immediately, or ever...

If what you say as a statement of fact is true and reliable, it's great to know! If it's an opinion, wish, or suggestion, that's quite a different matter.

bb
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:29 pm

This scheduling issue is tough - how does one do Hawai'i without red-eye flights AND offer connections to the rest of the U.S.?

Given the five hour flight time - plus the three hour time difference - means this is effectively an eight-hour flight (based on departure time and arrival). Arriving on the west coast at 6 PM means a 9 AM departure time from Honolulu, and unless Southwest is going to start 4 AM - 6 AM departure times at HNL, planes are going to arrive on the west coast in the evening, severely restricting their ability to make connections.

I keep wondering if Southwest's delay into Hawai'i is because of their refusal to do red-eyes. Wasn't this a topic here at a.net a while back?
 
crescent
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:06 pm

SANFan wrote:

Source please?

This is the most detailed info I've seen anywhere regarding WN's upcoming HI schedules and it does differ from past rumors about what we might see in SAN.


I'll try to find it- I think it was in a brokerage report on LUV stock. I suspect it was in a report someone wrote when WN announced the Hawaii entry back in April. That was a while ago, and the company didn't come close to launching in late-2018 like everyone hoped, so it's quite possible things have changed since then.
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:16 pm

crescent wrote:
SANFan wrote:

Source please?

This is the most detailed info I've seen anywhere regarding WN's upcoming HI schedules and it does differ from past rumors about what we might see in SAN.


I'll try to find it- I think it was in a brokerage report on LUV stock. I suspect it was in a report someone wrote when WN announced the Hawaii entry back in April. That was a while ago, and the company didn't come close to launching in late-2018 like everyone hoped, so it's quite possible things have changed since then.

Thanks for the response. There have been so many rumors and 'hopes' of how WN's service will be set up and to the best of my knowledge, WN has still not released anything. I just wanted to clarify what you posted.

bb
 
crescent
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:22 pm

It was here in an August post: https://beatofhawaii.com/southwest-hawaii-inter-island/. I recalled wrong- the comment is the aircraft will come in one day from CA, do some interisland, then return to CA the next day. SO it is conceivable they schedule it for late morning or early afternoon departures from the CA cities with connections.

Separately, in trying to find the note, I read a report from the announcement that WN would not launch interisland right away, maybe a year after.
 
Silver1SWA
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:29 am

Well today was my last day at SAN and I officially turned in my badge. It’s been a wonderful 14 years at the littlest big airport but it’s time to start a new chapter. I’ll probably be back someday but for now I’ll be following this thread from some rock in the middle of the Pacific.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:08 am

Silver1SWA wrote:
Well today was my last day at SAN and I officially turned in my badge. It’s been a wonderful 14 years at the littlest big airport but it’s time to start a new chapter. I’ll probably be back someday but for now I’ll be following this thread from some rock in the middle of the Pacific.

ALOHA Silver1SWA! I know you'll enjoy your new Island life but hope you do keep in touch with us over here off-the-Rock!

(Heck, we may continue to have some questions about life at WN in SAN and I hope you'll indulge us.)

And Hawaii may not know it yet but they're getting themselves one great photographer soon! Keep those pic coming please, RP!

bb
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:11 pm

SANFan wrote:
Silver1SWA wrote:
Well today was my last day at SAN and I officially turned in my badge. It’s been a wonderful 14 years at the littlest big airport but it’s time to start a new chapter. I’ll probably be back someday but for now I’ll be following this thread from some rock in the middle of the Pacific.

ALOHA Silver1SWA! I know you'll enjoy your new Island life but hope you do keep in touch with us over here off-the-Rock!

(Heck, we may continue to have some questions about life at WN in SAN and I hope you'll indulge us.)

And Hawaii may not know it yet but they're getting themselves one great photographer soon! Keep those pic coming please, RP!

bb


Agreed! Our loss at SAN is Hawai'i's gain. Many happy tropical sunsets to you, and thank you for your contributions!

Aloha!
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:14 pm

From the "for-what-it's-worth" file, F9 yesterday announced a new SAN route beginning April 30: LAS. Not a particularly under-served route to be sure but, hey, it IS another new route. (And, if I might add, another route that AS might have added when there were only 3 competitors -- WN, DL, NK; now there will be 4 cx already on the route.)

Of perhaps slight interest, and somewhat linked to a discussion ongoing in in this thread, it looks to me like the LAS flight is scheduled to depart at almost the same time as a DEN departure, implying F9 will, at certain times at least, need more than 1 gate to handle their ops at SDIA.. (This assumes existing flights will remain as already schedules.)

bb
 
crescent
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:51 pm

I've wondered why DL chooses to serve LAS-SAN LAS-SJC LAS-SNA
 
amadorE175
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:43 am

crescent wrote:
I've wondered why DL chooses to serve LAS-SAN LAS-SJC LAS-SNA


Speculating here, but I would think those are quick mileage redemption or leisure routes for frequent fliers in those cities. They're short hops so perhaps it worth offering those flights to keep people on DL.
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:48 pm

crescent wrote:
I've wondered why DL chooses to serve LAS-SAN LAS-SJC LAS-SNA

My guess is they are all routes that AS might want to enter sooner or later; AAG already flies LA/SF-Vegas but hasn't gotten around to the other routes yet. DL simply wanted to start them first.

I also think that since DL has a fairly healthy operation in LAS -- not a focus city really, but.... -- and those 3 CA cities that DL does fly are certainly popular routes that have plenty of travelers, why not? They prolly use what, maybe 2+ a/c to serve the 3 routes so not a huge investment but perhaps easy money.

bb
 
ibthebigd
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:53 pm

I wish DL would build LAS into a focus city like MCO

I would fly say CVG-LAS-SAN if it was available, especially in the winter.

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hawaiian717
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:33 pm

The Mayor and SANDAG are proposing to build a new "grand central" transit center at the SPAWAR site adjacent to Old Town that would include a rail connection to the airport terminals.

https://www.voiceofsandiego.org/topics/ ... it-vision/
 
jplatts
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:18 pm

SANFan wrote:
crescent wrote:
I've wondered why DL chooses to serve LAS-SAN LAS-SJC LAS-SNA

My guess is they are all routes that AS might want to enter sooner or later; AAG already flies LA/SF-Vegas but hasn't gotten around to the other routes yet. DL simply wanted to start them first.

I also think that since DL has a fairly healthy operation in LAS -- not a focus city really, but.... -- and those 3 CA cities that DL does fly are certainly popular routes that have plenty of travelers, why not? They prolly use what, maybe 2+ a/c to serve the 3 routes so not a huge investment but perhaps easy money.


Even though the SNA-LAS nonstop route is a point-to-point route, I can understand DL operating SNA-LAS nonstop service since SNA and DL's LAX hub are both located in Greater Los Angeles. On the other hand, DL doesn't have a hub or focus city at SAN, SFO, OAK, or SJC, and both SAN and SJC also already have nonstop service to LAS on other airlines.
 
SANAV8R
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:40 pm

hawaiian717 wrote:
The Mayor and SANDAG are proposing to build a new "grand central" transit center at the SPAWAR site adjacent to Old Town that would include a rail connection to the airport terminals.

https://www.voiceofsandiego.org/topics/ ... it-vision/


It sounds good but a private-public thing will probably lead to years of red tape like the Navy Broadway complex that Doug Manchester is redeveloping.

I didn't think they'd go talk to Boring Company either, I assumed an under runway tunnel would be out of the question as the ground might not support a tunnel being close to the bay, not to mention would they let them tunnel under MCRD? If money and logistics weren't an issue, they should have another tunnel from the airport to downtown as well.
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:33 pm

I wanted to share a couple of remarks I found in the minutes of the Dec 2018 SDCRAA Board Meeting found at SAN.org.

In the Chair's report, it is stated that in March 2019, JL "will be providing some different aircrafts." JL also told SDIA officials that they are very pleased with the status of the current route.

I know someone reported in the 2018 SAN thread that JL was going to be changing the aircraft used on the SAN route; this seems to be confirmation and providing a timeline of the changes. (I think it was going to be a change to the 787-9 with a new seating configuration?)

In the President's report, Kimberly Baker noted that in meetings with BA, the carrier stated they are "very pleased with route performance overall." (Nothing was reported regarding any schedule changes.)

The final remark was that pax growth at SAN in 2018 has been greatest from WN, AS and UA.

Nothing earthshattering but some nice things to hear. I'd sure like to hear some reports of how LH is doing and feeling about their newest US route.

bb
 
amadorE175
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:00 pm

hawaiian717 wrote:
The Mayor and SANDAG are proposing to build a new "grand central" transit center at the SPAWAR site adjacent to Old Town that would include a rail connection to the airport terminals.

https://www.voiceofsandiego.org/topics/ ... it-vision/


When I first heard about this I thought it was a nonstarter because of the Navy but if the Navy is asking for redevelopment ideas then that's good. In truth, I don't care too much if this actually gets built; I support it as long as it'll get the New T1 project farther along. I'm more excited about the possible road improvements and new ramps since cars are still the overwhelming mode of travel to the airport.

A couple of the comments the article give me pause. The COASTER running with 5 to 10 minute headways is a unrealistic. The LOSSAN corridor through the county isn't completely double tracked and won't be for a long while. It makes me question how familiar the people drafting this are with the regional transportation system and its realistic future.

The tunnel under the runway seems optimistic. I know technology evolves but when I worked at the airport one of the things I kept hearing was that a tunnel at the airport (and Downtown SD more generally) would be difficult given the watertable.
 
amadorE175
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:03 pm

SANAV8R wrote:

It sounds good but a private-public thing will probably lead to years of red tape like the Navy Broadway complex that Doug Manchester is redeveloping.


If the SPARWAR site is out of the coast zone governed by the Coastal Commission then this could be less mired in red tape.
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:23 pm

SANFan wrote:
I wanted to share a couple of remarks I found in the minutes of the Dec 2018 SDCRAA Board Meeting found at SAN.org.

In the Chair's report, it is stated that in March 2019, JL "will be providing some different aircrafts." JL also told SDIA officials that they are very pleased with the status of the current route.

I know someone reported in the 2018 SAN thread that JL was going to be changing the aircraft used on the SAN route; this seems to be confirmation and providing a timeline of the changes. (I think it was going to be a change to the 787-9 with a new seating configuration?)

In the President's report, Kimberly Baker noted that in meetings with BA, the carrier stated they are "very pleased with route performance overall." (Nothing was reported regarding any schedule changes.)

The final remark was that pax growth at SAN in 2018 has been greatest from WN, AS and UA.

Nothing earthshattering but some nice things to hear. I'd sure like to hear some reports of how LH is doing and feeling about their newest US route.

bb


I'd be thrilled to sit in on an LH group meeting about SAN. British Airways strategy has always been London and well...that's it. There's only one "mega-hub", LHR, with LGW handling different traffic needs. LH airlines, on the other hand, handle traffic through three different hubs (FRA, MUC, & ZRH), and acting as a coordinated trinary hub - but who gets what routes? For SAN, is Edelweiss going to remain with us long term? Or might we get MUC instead? And might they decide to coordinate days, such as FRA x5 and MUC x2?

Since even if I got into the boardroom on this discussion, it would probably be in a lot more technical German than I would ever be able to understand, so it becomes wait and see with fingers crossed!
 
ibthebigd
Posts: 253
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:25 pm

I would like to see the discussion SAN has with Delta about CDG or AMS on DL or KL/AF.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 
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FA9295
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:00 pm

I've been noticing lots of SAN-bound flights diverting to LAX this morning, AS's GEG-SAN and JL's NRT-SAN both diverted to LAX, and there may be some more flights as well. Is this weather related?
 
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FA9295
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:01 pm

ibthebigd wrote:
I would like to see the discussion SAN has with Delta about CDG or AMS on DL or KL/AF.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

I'm very surprised that SAN doesn't have an AMS flight yet. I think it'd be a great route for KLM to start with a daily 787-9.
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:10 pm

I've been noticing lots of SAN-bound flights diverting to LAX this morning, AS's GEG-SAN and JL's NRT-SAN both diverted to LAX, and there may be some more flights as well. Is this weather related?


We got quite a bit of rain in the early morning hours, with very low skies. I have been hearing a few departures from runway 9 (I live in North Park), and the predicted slow-down-by-8-AM-ish is still giving us significant drizzle through noon here. It's not terribly windy, but I suspect the low clouds on approach was the deciding factor.

I would like to see the discussion SAN has with Delta about CDG or AMS on DL or KL/AF.


I'm very surprised that SAN doesn't have an AMS flight yet. I think it'd be a great route for KLM to start with a daily 787-9.


Agreed on the SkyTeam representation missing, but if I remember correctly from last year's topic, LH is here because of a financial incentive program that allows a new entrant, such as Lufthansa and Edelweiss, time to develop the product whilst simultaneously not splitting high yielding traffic with LAX. After a certain time, the incentive program is over, and full fees are assessed.

I believe it is also in the incentive program a clause stating that no competing airline from that region can apply for the incentive program until the previous airlines' term is up. However, airlines from different parts of the world are free to apply at the same time. Case in point: COPA can apply anytime it wants, as there is no competition to Latin America, and since JAL's incentive time is over, any Asian carrier could also apply.

I think CDG might be first, as another thread here lists AMS as at capacity, concerning number of movements. Seeing a 777-300 in AF colors, though, was beautiful! I wonder if they might start with the 787?
 
gon2fly
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:50 pm

FA9295 wrote:
I've been noticing lots of SAN-bound flights diverting to LAX this morning, AS's GEG-SAN and JL's NRT-SAN both diverted to LAX, and there may be some more flights as well. Is this weather related?


Haven’t seen any news on this, but as we were pushing off the gate in DEN we were told to shut ‘em down for a ground stop in SAN. Disabled aircraft on the runway, blown tire, etc. Dispatch said 30-40 minute delay, and Clearance stated we would have an update in one hour....and several minutes later the ground stop was lifted and off we went. Still no news on who/what, etc, but it might explain some of the diversions earlier this morning.
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:48 pm

gon2fly wrote:
FA9295 wrote:
I've been noticing lots of SAN-bound flights diverting to LAX this morning, AS's GEG-SAN and JL's NRT-SAN both diverted to LAX, and there may be some more flights as well. Is this weather related?


Haven’t seen any news on this, but as we were pushing off the gate in DEN we were told to shut ‘em down for a ground stop in SAN. Disabled aircraft on the runway, blown tire, etc. Dispatch said 30-40 minute delay, and Clearance stated we would have an update in one hour....and several minutes later the ground stop was lifted and off we went. Still no news on who/what, etc, but it might explain some of the diversions earlier this morning.


Looking at FlightAware, there was a 37-minute halt in arrivals this morning, from 9:57 AM to 10:34 AM. The last flight in was this one:

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N54DD/history/20190112/1700Z/KVNY/KSAN

The next flight in, AA639 from Charlotte, chose to circle a few times, but was on the ground at 10:34 AM.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL639/history/20190112/1305Z/KCLT/KSAN

There are no other big gaps in landings today, so that must be it.
 
blacksoviet
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:34 pm

Are both banjos going to be demolished at the same time?
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:21 am

blacksoviet wrote:
Are both banjos going to be demolished at the same time?


As I recall in the general details, there will be no loss of gates during the reconstruction, as this would cause undo hardship upon airlines. A new 15-ish gate portion of the new Terminal 1 would be built east of the current site. Then Southwest will move its operations over to the new gates, allow the demolition of Terminal 1 East. Clear the site, build the next phase, move in the tenants of Terminal 1 West, tear that down, and the final phase (yet to be finalized, to my knowledge) is the removal of Terminal 2 East after completion of the now-completely-connected pre-and-post-security Terminal 1 is completed. 60 gates, total, 60 operations per hour at maximum.

However, only time will tell.
 
blacksoviet
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:29 am

Does the 767-300ER have enough range to fly from SAN to CDG? Maybe Delta could start seasonal service to CDG with the 767-300ER. Does Delta still operate a hub at CDG?
 
blacksoviet
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:00 am

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
Are both banjos going to be demolished at the same time?


As I recall in the general details, there will be no loss of gates during the reconstruction, as this would cause undo hardship upon airlines. A new 15-ish gate portion of the new Terminal 1 would be built east of the current site. Then Southwest will move its operations over to the new gates, allow the demolition of Terminal 1 East. Clear the site, build the next phase, move in the tenants of Terminal 1 West, tear that down, and the final phase (yet to be finalized, to my knowledge) is the removal of Terminal 2 East after completion of the now-completely-connected pre-and-post-security Terminal 1 is completed. 60 gates, total, 60 operations per hour at maximum.

However, only time will tell.

When the construction is completed, will Terminal 1 be bigger than Terminal 2?
 
SANAV8R
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:27 am

blacksoviet wrote:
Does the 767-300ER have enough range to fly from SAN to CDG? Maybe Delta could start seasonal service to CDG with the 767-300ER. Does Delta still operate a hub at CDG?


I’m sure that 767-300ER could do SANCDG as SANFRA is only a 100 or so nmi more and Condor used 767-300ER on SANFRA.

Delta does not have a hub at CDG but has a number of flights from CDG to its hubs and some focus cities. Delta has a transatlantic joint venture with Air France-KLM and Alitalia.
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:01 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
Are both banjos going to be demolished at the same time?


As I recall in the general details, there will be no loss of gates during the reconstruction, as this would cause undo hardship upon airlines. A new 15-ish gate portion of the new Terminal 1 would be built east of the current site. Then Southwest will move its operations over to the new gates, allow the demolition of Terminal 1 East. Clear the site, build the next phase, move in the tenants of Terminal 1 West, tear that down, and the final phase (yet to be finalized, to my knowledge) is the removal of Terminal 2 East after completion of the now-completely-connected pre-and-post-security Terminal 1 is completed. 60 gates, total, 60 operations per hour at maximum.

However, only time will tell.

When the construction is completed, will Terminal 1 be bigger than Terminal 2?


I wish I could see and then show the plan, but there's nothing official yet. I check http://www.san.org frequently for updates, but it only exists in theory as far as I can tell.

All the renderings I have seen show any new Terminal 1 make it larger, but that includes the demolition of T2 West and replacement with a larger T1:

The most recent from SAN's website:

Image

The two oldest renderings in my collection:

ImageImage

Note that in these two renderings, the International Terminal hasn't even been considered.

In this next group, Terminal 2 West is extended west, but the idea was for a commuter terminal even further west. That idea has been abandoned officially, to the best of my knowledge:

ImageImageImage

When something official is announced, I will let everyone know ASAP!!
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:16 pm

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
Agreed on the SkyTeam representation missing, but if I remember correctly from last year's topic, LH is here because of a financial incentive program that allows a new entrant, such as Lufthansa and Edelweiss, time to develop the product whilst simultaneously not splitting high yielding traffic with LAX. After a certain time, the incentive program is over, and full fees are assessed.

I wouldn't say that LH is here because of the incentive program offered by SDIA; more likely, LH is here because they feel the SAN market can support another Europe flight to a huge, global hub and the incentive package helps reduce some of the carrier's start-up costs of opening a new city in the U.S.

Our incentive program seems to be about the same as most other airports in the U.S. so it just helps level the playing field among all the cities trying to lure new int'l service. But I think SAN has secured the airlines and routes we have because of many other factors -- and the incentive simply helps seal the deal.

To the best of my knowledge SAN does not offer any subsidies and never has. U.S. airports themselves are not allowed to offer subsidies and none of our local government levels -- city, county or state -- nor the local business community, are interested in or able to offer cash 'encouragement' to help entice new cx to our area.

As mentioned, the incentive is also manipulated so that a major new carrier, such as when BA began flying to SAN in 2011, might not have any competition for a few years. I believe the SDIA incentive package was not valid for any new service to Europe for a period of 3 years after BA arrived. I'm sure the same applies now following LH's arrival.

This of course doesn't mean that another carrier couldn't start flying to Europe this year -- they certainly could but they wouldn't get to take advantages of the incentive program. (WK got the incentive but I don't think it was blocked from use by other cx since Edelweiss offered only seasonal and sub-daily service. I believe such service is eligible for a separate incentive than year-round, more 'full-time' service.)

bb
 
jplatts
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:37 pm

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
This scheduling issue is tough - how does one do Hawai'i without red-eye flights AND offer connections to the rest of the U.S.?

Given the five hour flight time - plus the three hour time difference - means this is effectively an eight-hour flight (based on departure time and arrival). Arriving on the west coast at 6 PM means a 9 AM departure time from Honolulu, and unless Southwest is going to start 4 AM - 6 AM departure times at HNL, planes are going to arrive on the west coast in the evening, severely restricting their ability to make connections.

I keep wondering if Southwest's delay into Hawai'i is because of their refusal to do red-eyes. Wasn't this a topic here at a.net a while back?


WN's systems can likely handle red-eye operations from Hawaii to the contiguous U.S. since (a) it is already 5:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time the next day when it it is 11:00 PM Hawaii Time when DST is in effect, (b) it is already 5:00 AM Eastern Standard Time when it is 12:00 AM Hawaii Time when DST isn't in effect, and (c) WN already has some nonstop flights that depart from the East Coast between 5:00 AM and 6:00 AM Eastern Time.
 
cheapflier
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Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:21 am

Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:27 am

crescent wrote:
Someone wrote on the AS thread that AS would move from Terminal 1 to Terminal 2 East and get 7 gates there. Is this possible? Are there 7 open gates anywhere in T2?


There's going to be a gate swap on January 29. Alaska will move to T2 East and others will move to T1. I don't think they've announced which airlines yet.
 
cheapflier
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:34 am

Looks like SAN Is trying to attract Philippine Airlines. Airport CEO Kim Becker is going to the airline's HQ in Manila later this month for a three-day trip. PAL put San Diego on its short list a few years ago. Perhaps they'll be able to seal the deal with a face-to-face.
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