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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:15 pm

cheapflier wrote:
Looks like SAN Is trying to attract Philippine Airlines. Airport CEO Kim Becker is going to the airline's HQ in Manila later this month for a three-day trip. PAL put San Diego on its short list a few years ago. Perhaps they'll be able to seal the deal with a face-to-face.

The on-and-off attempts by PR and SDIA to get some sort of deal going (and make PAL a full-time tenant here at SAN) have been well-documented and written about for years on many A.net threads (especially this SAN-thread.)

I know that for me, the fact that the carrier did, back in 2008, actually apply to the DOT for authorization to serve SAN as a tag-on to YVR, makes the whole PR question very real. PAL obviously DID want to serve SAN at that time, and were apparently prepared to do so, so does that interest still exist? I would say, yes, at least on some level!

And I certainly understand that things can change a lot in 10 years -- since the route application was submitted -- but I just don't think the situation is all that much different now. And I also realize that a trip by airport officials to an airline's HQ, whether in the US or on foreign soil, is not all that unusual. Never-the-less.... something about this news excites me!

If Kim Baker (and undoubtedly Hampton will be with her) is indeed heading to the Philippines to meet with PAL, then discussions must still be alive and worth such a trip. Hampton has continued to hint/kid about PAL and SAN occasionally so I really don't think the idea has ever really died.

Fingers crossed that we may hear some good news regarding PAL in the not-to-distant future! We've got plenty of room at SAN's FIS facilities for another beautiful foreign flag carrier's wide body! Good luck to CEO Baker and her group in the Philippines!

Hey SANMAN', you need to weigh in here. What do you think of this news? And what about Devilfish, the PR expert... are you out there? Any comments?

bb
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:06 pm

Folks, I just found a news release on SAN.org's Newsroom page. Here's the link: https://www.san.org/News/Article-Detail ... operations
And here's the release:
San Diego International Airport announces several airline relocations to support operations

Alaska Airlines, Spirit Airlines, Allegiant Airlines, Sun Country Airlines to move terminal locations

Monday, January 14, 2019
SAN DIEGO – January 14, 2019 – Effective January 29, several airlines at San Diego International Airport (SAN) will move their terminal operations to better accommodate and support future growth.

Alaska Airlines, the largest carrier impacted, currently operates more than 45 daily departures from SAN utilizing both Terminals 1 and 2. Alaska Airlines operations will consolidate entirely in Terminal 2 East, helping to streamline the passenger experience.

Spirit Airlines, Allegiant Airlines, and Sun Country Airlines will move their operations from Terminal 2 into Terminal 1, utilizing gates 11–18.


Well, there goes all the discussion about WN taking over T1W once AS leaves. A certain WN source of rumors, including this one, is now on my "pay no attention to" list.

I will assume then that Blue will stay where they are for now (T2W near DL) and F9 will remain in T1W where they currently live. WN, I suppose, might continue to use some gates in T1W (as they are now doing.) G4, NK and SY certainly won't use a lot of gate space in T1W -- maybe 2-3 gates max, plus F9's use of gate 12.

Unfortunately, nothing clarifying how many gates AS will have after their move to T2E either. Oh well, at least we now have some confirmation of a few things...

bb
 
SANMAN66
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:43 am

SANFan wrote:

Hey SANMAN', you need to weigh in here. What do you think of this news? And what about Devilfish, the PR expert... are you out there? Any comments?

bb


I'm still taking a wait and see attitude for PR to show up here. I still remember when they first applied in 2008 and all that waiting when the Philippines was downgraded to CAT- II. Although I would be happy if they decided to serve SAN even if the service was a tag-on or seasonal. Hopefully Hampton can work his magic on his upcoming trip to Manila. I guess I'm being cautious.
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amadorE175
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:26 am

SANFan wrote:

Unfortunately, nothing clarifying how many gates AS will have after their move to T2E either. Oh well, at least we now have some confirmation of a few things...

bb


I'd assume they'd get 5 to 7, with 20-24 being the bulk of the operation and 33 and 34 being the remainder. It'll be odd to fly AS into T2.
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:21 am

amadorE175 wrote:
SANFan wrote:
Unfortunately, nothing clarifying how many gates AS will have after their move to T2E either. Oh well, at least we now have some confirmation of a few things...

I'd assume they'd get 5 to 7, with 20-24 being the bulk of the operation and 33 and 34 being the remainder. It'll be odd to fly AS into T2.

So you think AS is going thru a major terminal relocation that will result in them ending up with fewer gates than they currently have in T1W (+ T2E) -- that's a total of 8 gates?)

Now that we've learned (see my earlier post) that G4 is moving to T1W, I would expect AS will be using, after their move to T2E, gates 20, 21, 22, 24, 26, 28, 30 & 32 full time and exclusively; that will give them 8 gates -- still no actual growth from their present situation. AA will essentially use, as now, the odd numbered gates (and west side of the concourse.) Maybe there could be some cross-use of gates in T2E between the two carriers when necessary.. But who knows what will actually happen.

bb
 
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Devilfish
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:38 am

SANFan wrote:
And what about Devilfish, the PR expert... are you out there? Any comments?

:laughing: Not by any stretch of imagination am I an expert on anything. Anyway, I think it is very telling that the last news which came out about PAL didn't even mention SAN in passing (granted that was way ahead of this latest 'development').....

https://business.inquirer.net/262981/pa ... st-quarter

Quote:
"PAL had previously announced future plans to fly to the US cities of Chicago or Seattle. It currently has routes to Honolulu, Los Angeles, New York and San Francisco."


SANFan wrote:
And I certainly understand that things can change a lot in 10 years -- since the route application was submitted -- but I just don't think the situation is all that much different now. And I also realize that a trip by airport officials to an airline's HQ, whether in the US or on foreign soil, is not all that unusual. Never-the-less.... something about this news excites me!

If anything, the situation has become more delicate now, with PR incurring losses in the 3rdQ last year, and still on their quest to land a strategic investor (within this year according to them).

SANFan wrote:
If Kim Baker (and undoubtedly Hampton will be with her) is indeed heading to the Philippines to meet with PAL, then discussions must still be alive and worth such a trip. Hampton has continued to hint/kid about PAL and SAN occasionally so I really don't think the idea has ever really died.

They would need to dangle a very "tasty carrot" for El Kapitan to overlook the operational impact of splitting PR's base and opening a station at SAN...not the least of which is the number of passengers that will be poached from its LAX frequencies. Also, for SAN-MNL to be sustainable, the flow of visitors must not only be from the U.S. side but from the Philippines as well...and for that, visa acquisition needs to be facilitated (no simple matter). They could route it via YVR, taking over the LAS tag (if route authorities aren't exhausted yet).

Lastly, PAL has retired all of its A340s and their two A350s still to be delivered are probably already earmarked for their planned network expansion. So PAL has no right-sized equipment to start the route unless they exercise their options for same (difficult without an investor) or go for a cheaper alternative like the A338. :airplane:
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:47 am

Devilfish wrote:
SANFan wrote:
And what about Devilfish, the PR expert... are you out there? Any comments?

:laughing: Not by any stretch of imagination am I an expert on anything. Anyway, I think it is very telling that the last news which came out about PAL didn't even mention SAN in passing (granted that was way ahead of this latest 'development').....
Quote:
"PAL had previously announced future plans to fly to the US cities of Chicago or Seattle. It currently has routes to Honolulu, Los Angeles, New York and San Francisco."

And you, 'fish, sit there calling yourself "NOT an expert" after that post?! You certainly have my respect as an excellent source of Philippine aviation.

In any case, thank you very much for your feedback. Unfortunately, you forgot all the optimistic stuff! :)

I was just reacting to the apparent news of Kim Baker heading to Manila; this is a bit unusual for the SDCRAA to send their CEO rather than just Hampton or perhaps other Route Planning personnel. (Which I'd assume they've done before.) AFAIK, CEO Baker doesn't do this all that often; she's got an airport to run here at home and must be a VERY busy person these days! So it just seems that we might be at some higher level of negotiations than before... Of course it might ultimately be termed nothing but a long-distance wild goose chase!

bb
 
SANMAN66
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:01 pm

I heard that JAL is handling all the MNL bound pax from SAN who doesn't want to fly out of LAX. I heard the connections out of NRT are easy. I'm guessing that if PR started service from SAN, it might affect the loads JAL currently has.
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DL717
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:55 pm

I think SAN should just give up on PAL at this point and focus on China or narrow it even further and focus on Hong Kong with Cathay or something. How long has this been a subject on here??? 10+ years? How many times have we heard they've visited the headquarters??? Now they don't even mention them when they talk about expansion. Its almost like they're getting nothing but lip service.
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:01 pm

As was pointed out by Devilfish, things on the Philippine-end of this issue seem to hold no optimism about MNL-SAN happening. And I don't believe PR has been a top priority of SDIA but perhaps something has occurred that warrants this upcoming trip. I wonder if some sort of tag-on has suddenly been made feasible? Perhaps MNL-YVR-SAN is back on the table somehow, or IF PR is going to add SEA, perhaps MNL-SEA-SAN, or maybe something as simple as MNL-SFO-SAN? (I'm just thinking out loud here.)

One other possibility that I've wondered about. Last summer, an expensive and 'rushed' project undertaken by SDCRAA was completed -- new, state-of-the-art FIS facilities with lots of room. Work continues this year with even more gates being added to the FIS complex. The work was definitely needed, replacing the previous, outdated and horribly under-sized facilities in T2E. But the project has been on a fairly grand scale with future needs hopefully taken care of for many years.

Could it be that there is no imminent start-up of new service by new carriers to help "rationalize" the project? I would think it might look really good if SAN could secure a new foreign flag to use the new facilities on a regular basis? Maybe the SDCRAA is scrambling to get some new tenants that will make use of these fancy new customs facilities. As I said, what if they all of a sudden thought they might be able to get that beautiful Sunburst tail calling regularly at SAN's T2W?

I don't think an airport is happy when a lot of money is spent on expansion and nobody "shows up." Look at what SMF went through a few years ago. Might SAN feel kind of 'disappointed' if all of a sudden they have 6 FIS-capable gates (this summer) with no new airlines or flights to make use of them? What if WK leaves after this summer, their 3rd season at SAN? I'm sure eventually we will see some sort of service to Latin America, hopefully another Euro carrier, and an Asian/Chinese airline, and who knows what else. But it may take a while... Wouldn't it be nice if they could land PR to bridge the gap until some of these "priorities" start to become reality in a couple of years? Just an idea floating around in my head, based on nothing factual.

bb
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:09 pm

I heard that JAL is handling all the MNL bound pax from SAN who doesn't want to fly out of LAX. I heard the connections out of NRT are easy. I'm guessing that if PR started service from SAN, it might affect the loads JAL currently has.


While I would imagine a number of JAL 65/66 passengers will be connecting to MNL or elsewhere in the Philippines, JAL would not have started service to NRT solely for that. We all know the Philippines is a very price-sensitive market, and many Filipinos will continue to use PAL and the non-stops from LAX. Transiting NRT is quite easy; however, if it's not the cheapest - especially with a family going - the trip up to LAX will still continue.

I think SAN should just give up on PAL at this point and focus on China or narrow it even further and focus on Hong Kong with Cathay or something. How long has this been a subject on here??? 10+ years? How many times have we heard they've visited the headquarters??? Now they don't even mention them when they talk about expansion. Its almost like they're getting nothing but lip service.


Agreed. Other than the domestic Philippine market, what would PAL offer than JAL or KE/OZ can't?
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019IF

Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:48 pm

IF SAN-MNL should actually happen on PR, either as a nonstop or direct service as a tag-on, it would certainly impact at least 2 current routes -- JL SAN-NRT and PR LAX-MNL. I'm sure both cx involved know precisely how many people per day that is.

My take would be that if most of those SAN-based travelers currently going via TYO did make use of a direct flight on PR, it would open seats for other pax not heading for MNL. I'm sure the LA-MNL market would have no problem filling those seats and I would guess the number of seats on JL every day that would open up would not adversely affect overall LF on the SAN-NRT route.

JL has flown their route out of SAN for 6 years now without any direct competition so IMO, SAN is no longer under any responsibility to 'protect' them from competition. Heck, the same argument could be said for any other new service from Asia that might eventually start out of SAN -- a nonstop to China or Korea (routes that many on this thread are hoping for) -- would certainly impact JL's loads too. Does that mean we shouln't welcome KE or any Chinese cx to start SAN service?

Finally, IF there was expected to be an adverse impact on JL, I doubt SCRAA would be pushing toward securing service at SAN from PAL. Maybe the military has been pressuring SDIA to try to get better/quicker service between SAN and the Philippines... And San Diego's again-growing cruise industry would probably like to see improved air service to the Philippines.

Interesting discussion folks.

bb
 
Yahnih
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:55 pm

I feel KE should be the carrier of choice. KE shouldn’t affect JL considering JL doesn’t fly to ICN anymore and have limited their flights from HND to GMP. Speaking from experience many Filipinos also prefer to take the KE or OZ flights with the one stop in ICN to MNL. I suggest they push KE as it’s a win for both Korea, Philippines, & as a bonus a SkyTeam intl carrier representative.
 
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hawaiian717
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:51 pm

Yahnih wrote:
KE shouldn’t affect JL considering JL doesn’t fly to ICN anymore and have limited their flights from HND to GMP.


KE would still affect JL. Sure KE might not be a viable option to get from SAN to Tokyo, but it would still pull some of JL's connecting traffic beyond NRT. For example, SAN-NRT-TPE passengers could go SAN-ICN-TPE instead.
 
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hawaiian717
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:03 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
Are Gates 20, 21, and 22 still connected to FIS?


I'm not sure there was ever a clear answer to this. I know one comment was that the FIS was at a different location now, but I also read this as asking if the old FIS facilities still existed. Well this article about the AS/SY/NK/G4 terminal shuffle answers that:

Alaska Airlines’ ticketing area will soon be in Terminal 2 East also, taking over some space once occupied by the airport’s old Federal Inspection Station.


https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/ ... 41041.html

So no, gates 20-22 are no longer connected to a FIS, as the old FIS has been removed and part of that space will shortly become the Alaska ticket counter.
 
cheapflier
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:40 am

blacksoviet wrote:
Does anybody have a list of all the airlines currently operating out of Terminal 2 East? Are Gates 20, 21, and 22 still connected to FIS?


They are no longer connected to FIS since the new FIS is on the west side. The new gates are connected by a second (technically third) sterile floor that was built for the new FIS.

This blog did a decent job on the new area:
http://www.frugalfliers.com/2018/06/san ... rt-is.html
 
cheapflier
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:53 am

SANFan wrote:
Now that we've learned (see my earlier post) that G4 is moving to T1W, I would expect AS will be using, after their move to T2E, gates 20, 21, 22, 24, 26, 28, 30 & 32 full time and exclusively; that will give them 8 gates -- still no actual growth from their present situation. AA will essentially use, as now, the odd numbered gates (and west side of the concourse.) Maybe there could be some cross-use of gates in T2E between the two carriers when necessary.. But who knows what will actually happen.


Correct, as I understand it, AS will get the even gates 22, 24, 26, 28, 30, 32 plus preferential use of the CUTE (Common Use Terminal Equipment) gates 20 and 21. There's also room to expand if needed once JetBlue goes to T1 at some point before the summer rush.
 
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Devilfish
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:07 am

SANFan wrote:
In any case, thank you very much for your feedback. Unfortunately, you forgot all the optimistic stuff! :)

You're welcome. Alright...how about this for optimistic..... :?: .....

Image
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DxFGi0VUUAAyQW-.jpg


What if the above "flashback" livery on PR's 5th A359 (msn 280) is a portent of things still to come and the airline is just keeping mum on where those will be assigned? :bigthumbsup:
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
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itripreport
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:16 am

hawaiian717 wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
Are Gates 20, 21, and 22 still connected to FIS?


I recently walked through terminal 2, and that entire sterile corridor has been walled off, my guess is its being dismantled in favor of more gate space. The old INTL exit area has also been dismantled. The East counters at T2E (where JAL, BA, and numerous other carries have operated out of) have also been walled off for a while now.
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:24 am

Devilfish wrote:
SANFan wrote:
In any case, thank you very much for your feedback. Unfortunately, you forgot all the optimistic stuff! :)

You're welcome. Alright...how about this for optimistic..... :?: .....
What if the above "flashback" livery on PR's 5th A359 (msn 280) is a portent of things still to come and the airline is just keeping mum on where those will be assigned? :bigthumbsup:

That's much better, Devil'. That's what we need. You da man!

itripreport wrote:
I recently walked through terminal 2, and that entire sterile corridor has been walled off, my guess is its being dismantled in favor of more gate space. The old INTL exit area has also been dismantled. The East counters at T2E (where JAL, BA, and numerous other carries have operated out of) have also been walled off for a while now.

Thanx for that report 'tripreport. That's about what I would expect to be happening. Even though the old FIS facilities were much too small to provide workable and adequate space for its purpose, it covered 2 stories, contains an elevator and enough space to allow for a nice amount of extra ops space, crew lounge, etc., for AAG. In fact, I still hope that AS may also have the room to be building a surprise for its many frequent travelers in the San Diego area -- a Board Room (the private club/lounge of AAG!)

We know the ticket counter space (inc kiosks) and all ops space is to be finished and opened on Jan 29. That's a Tuesday, now less than 2 weeks away! The ticket lobby space was CUTE, without any carrier-specific markings; I imagine it will all be seriously remodeled and truly Alaska on the 29th. Should look pretty sharp when it opens!

bb
 
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Devilfish
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:11 pm

SANFan wrote:
That's much better, Devil'. That's what we need. You da man!

:puckerup: Just spreading the love around. :hearts: :cheerful:
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
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itripreport
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:48 pm

Called it haha, here's Alaska's future check in area, as well as the gates 20-22 with the now removed sterile walkway
Image
Image
Image
Image
 
wnflyguy
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:23 pm

So SAN powers turned down WN request to take over the majority of the T1E Gates in favor of relocating others to T1E.
WN will gain 2 additional gates for a total of 3 now and remain using gates 1A,1B and 2.
New T1 is delayed because of political issues with bringing the Trolley line into the airport.
Best estimates for construction is beyond 2025.

Flyguy
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
redrooster3
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:43 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
So SAN powers turned down WN request to take over the majority of the T1E Gates in favor of relocating others to T1E.
WN will gain 2 additional gates for a total of 3 now and remain using gates 1A,1B and 2.
New T1 is delayed because of political issues with bringing the Trolley line into the airport.
Best estimates for construction is beyond 2025.

Flyguy


Considering the airport limits Gate use to Delta/American/United to their minimum 6 gates, Southwest should be happy with acquiring any additional gates. Any airline can all-of-a-sudden come marching in and request 6 gates for operation, and knock down AS/WN a couple gates just like that.
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:27 pm

itripreport wrote:
Called it haha, here's Alaska's future check in area, as well as the gates 20-22 with the now removed sterile walkway.

Thank for the pix, itrip'. No surprises of course and I don't see any changes to the east ticket lobby counter space at all; it's still CUTE and lacking any AS identification. Didn't you previously report that the ticketing lobby was walled off for a while? And now the walls are down but nothing appears to have been changed... The area looks no different than the last time I saw it late last year. G4 is still using the area I assume?

It would be nice to see what has been done to the ticket lobby at the west end of T1; there must be lots of additional counter space added there for all those new cx coming in in 10 days.

wnflyguy wrote:
So SAN powers turned down WN request to take over the majority of the T1E Gates in favor of relocating others to T1E. WN will gain 2 additional gates for a total of 3 now and remain using gates 1A,1B and 2. New T1 is delayed because of political issues with bringing the Trolley line into the airport. Best estimates for construction is beyond 2025.
Flyguy


Your post assumes that WN was ever actually hoping or planning on taking over all of T1W; that was, I believe, your rumor and perhaps that's all it ever was. I remember early last year, it was being reported that several of the smaller airlines at SAN (including B6, NK, SY, G4, etc.) were going to move into T1 when AS moved to T2E around the end of 2018. Seems to me that's still exactly what's happening. Now you say WN will "gain 2 additional gates for a total of 3". If this is true, that would mean 5 gates in the west rotunda of T1W will be shared by NK, SY, G4, F9 (and soon, B6 as well) and WN will end up with 13 gates total in T1. Sounds very doable -- if it's true.

Also, I note that this will open up ticket counter and op's space in the west ticket lobby of T2W where NK and SY currently live, and in the east lobby where Blue is now... These soon-to-be-empty locations, I would think, are where any NEW carriers -- which would primarily be foreign flags! -- would settle in. Encouraging? I sure think so!...

bb
 
blacksoviet
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jan 20, 2019 8:32 pm

How many gates does B6 currently use? Are they still in Terminal 2 West?
 
cheapflier
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 21, 2019 5:46 am

blacksoviet wrote:
How many gates does B6 currently use? Are they still in Terminal 2 West?


Still there for a few more months. Then they go to T1. JetBlue currently uses 34, 35, 36. 35 is CUTE as is 34, I believe.
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:38 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
How many gates does B6 currently use? Are they still in Terminal 2 West?

Due to the staggered schedule of B6, and their limited number of flights -- they sked no more than 6 flights per day at SAN -- they sometimes need a 2nd gate for a limited time generally only once a day. So far, they don't ever have a RON here.

IF it's true that about 5 gates in T1W will be shared by G4, B6, F9, NK & SY, that will probably work out ok. I believe all those gates are CUTE so they should be fully interchangeable, and only 4 of the cx even offer daily flights, some more than others, and most are seasonal. (Last time I checked, F9 offers 1 daily DEN flight only, and SY seasonally sometimes offers 1 daily MSP r/t; both cx have other routes and flights but nothing more than a couple days a week.)

Unless any of these cx decide to really take off and grow SAN -- there seems to be no evidence that any of them has such plans -- then hopefully this gate arrangement at T1W should last long enough for the T1 replacement to be built and opened.

bb
 
blacksoviet
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:18 pm

Will Delta ever fly a 764 to SAN?
 
amadorE175
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 22, 2019 1:15 am

blacksoviet wrote:
Will Delta ever fly a 764 to SAN?


They have, at least once. I don't know if there's a photo in the database here but some spotter accounts on Instagram have the DL 764 flying into SAN.

SANFan wrote:
It would be nice to see what has been done to the ticket lobby at the west end of T1; there must be lots of additional counter space added there for all those new cx coming in in 10 days.


Went through today and the very west end of the T1W ticket counters are still barriered off and, as far as I could tell, there weren't any new signs or airline colors around. It'll all likely happen quickly overnight before the change. I couldn't get a count of the number of positions walled off. I want to guess 8 or so but I didn't pay close attention.

itripreport wrote:
Called it haha, here's Alaska's future check in area, as well as the gates 20-22 with the now removed sterile walkway


Cool, this jives with my evaluation of the work being done last year. Looks good.

cheapflier wrote:
SANFan wrote:
amadorE175 wrote:

I'd assume they'd get 5 to 7, with 20-24 being the bulk of the operation and 33 and 34 being the remainder. It'll be odd to fly AS into T2.


Now that we've learned (see my earlier post) that G4 is moving to T1W, I would expect AS will be using, after their move to T2E, gates 20, 21, 22, 24, 26, 28, 30 & 32 full time and exclusively; that will give them 8 gates -- still no actual growth from their present situation. AA will essentially use, as now, the odd numbered gates (and west side of the concourse.) Maybe there could be some cross-use of gates in T2E between the two carriers when necessary.. But who knows what will actually happen.


Correct, as I understand it, AS will get the even gates 22, 24, 26, 28, 30, 32 plus preferential use of the CUTE (Common Use Terminal Equipment) gates 20 and 21. There's also room to expand if needed once JetBlue goes to T1 at some point before the summer rush.


This is close to what they've printed in the AS inflight magazine. There, it says "Alaska will occupy Gates 20, 21, 22, 24, 26, and 28 with Gates 30 and 32 available as alternates." I got the actual gates wrong but 6 main gates is right in the range I predicted.
 
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 22, 2019 1:21 am

blacksoviet wrote:
Will Delta ever fly a 764 to SAN?


Saw it back in December 22nd of 2018. Was pretty surprised about seeing it
 
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 22, 2019 1:39 am

blacksoviet wrote:
Will Delta ever fly a 764 to SAN?

I was working at Liberty Station about three years ago and I used to see a DL 764 quite often take off in the morning hours. When I first saw it, I thought it was a 777.
PSA Gives you a lift!
 
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 22, 2019 3:20 am

Can Gate 31 handle a 747-400?
 
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:00 am

Why did Continental drop the SAN-MEX route?
 
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:20 am

Well, the great airline shuffle should be done! The airport map (at SAN.org) was completed (changed) Monday night and of course the Flight Status page was not accessible so I couldn't follow flights Monday night.

It would be great to get some feedback from any of us travelling in the next couple of days out of T1W or T2E, or on AS, G4, NK, SY, F9 as to what they see or run into after the move. JetBlue remains where they are (T2W, east ticket lobby) for now, moving into T1 in March. Will the previous homes of NK and SY remain empty or will their neighbors in T2W suck up the empty space immediately? (Or, gulp!, could a new airline soon move into SAN and take up that empty counter space?!)

I do hope AS's new home (in T2E) will be fresh, impressive (mood-lighting perhaps?) and adequate in size so the carrier can continue its growth here. I continue to wonder and hope if maybe they are building a nice surprise for all of their SAN frequent flyers somewhere in the empty space of the previous FIS, right in the midst of their new real estate at SAN? I've heard some whispers here and there -- enough to be somewhat excited about the possibility of a Board Room maybe arriving soon...

Also remember, AS will begin service to ELP on Feb 19 and to Everett, WA, sometime in March (hopefully.) And after that? .......

bb
 
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:16 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
Will Delta ever fly a 764 to SAN?


They’ve been flying one every Christmas season to SAN for the last week of December every year for several years now.

Works out great for me since I visit SAN around that time every year.
 
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jan 29, 2019 6:10 pm

I'm going to continue to post info about the airline shuffle at SAN just in case anyone cares.

I did a gate scan just now on AS.com and found that AS this morning used gates: 20, 21,22,24,26,28A, 28B & 30. Huh -- 28A & 28B? I'm not sure what's going on with that but they seem to be all EMJ flights using those 2 gate numbers. That does give AS additional gates but do they even have jetways or are those a/c accessed by stairs from the holding area? (I was under the impression that Gate 28 had a jetway but now...) After giving it a bit of thought, perhaps AS has squeezed in another gate next to 28 that does NOT have a jetway -- naming it 28B -- and renamed gate 28 to 28A? (Perhaps they will use the same boarding area in the concourse.) And I would expect 28B would be used only for EMJs, or Q400 if those should someday return to SAN.

The SAN information page at AS.com lists their new gates as: "Gates 20-22, 24, 26, 28 (alternate gates 30 & 32.)" So I'm thinking AS will have access now at SAN to at least 9 gates so there seems to be a slight increase in the number since they left T1W. Nice! Let the growth continue at SAN!

I've also wondered if AS might be able to squeeze another gate or two into the area that used to be FIS? After all, gates 20/21/22 used to handle 747s and other wide bodies which AS doesn't have. There seems to be lots of room in that area for more gates but I'm not sure how much work/money would be required to expand it to handle additional a/c. I guess that might be an option for AS's future if they outgrow their new digs.

BTW, I got no help in trying to figure out who will use which gates in T1W since NK's Flight Status page doesn't use gate numbers at all and G4 and SY have no flights on Tuesday mornings. I continue to assume that all or most of the gates in T1W are CUTE and completely interchangeable. Of course WN might have assigned gates due to their unique boarding method; I have no idea which gates those might be and the SAN.org Flight Status page is still non-functional. (Nice timing...)

I'm guessing that T1W might be pretty empty of airplanes and pax most of the time. It just depends on how much WN will use it as overflow or on any growth ahead for Spirit, Sun Country, Allegiant, Frontier, and eventually, JetBlue. (I'm not holding my breath on any dramatic from those 5 cx.)

Again, it would be wonderful if anyone here will be using either T2E or T1W in the near future and can give us photos or updates on what things look like. Thanks in advance.

bb
 
phxa340
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 30, 2019 1:23 am

AS is showing Airbus equipment for the Boston-San Diego route in August. Is this just a placeholder? Odd to see any Airbii for transcon from SAN.
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 30, 2019 4:32 am

phxa340 wrote:
AS is showing Airbus equipment for the Boston-San Diego route in August. Is this just a placeholder? Odd to see any Airbii for transcon from SAN.

I've posted about this change on a few threads but apparently not this one. (I honestly didn't think anyone would be interested.) Thanks for asking about it.

The AS skeds show the 'Bus flying to BOS will start on June 6 (the beginning of the peak summer skeds.) That being still 4 months away, there is no guarantee that things will remain as they now show. I find that even a month out, AS still makes some changes to their skeds.

That being said, I would give BOS a 95% chance of happening as now shown. (It is too close to be considered a place holder.) The route has definitely been changed to a 'Bus but it could be undone -- not that unusual these days for AS. I assume the r/t will operate with an A320 but of course there's a chance it could be flown with a 321! The flavor of AirBus to be used will probably not be certain until shortly before the date of travel.

And yes, it is the first AS AirBus operating a long-haul out of SAN; we may see more although AS's trend is to remove 'Buses from transcon routes and use the Boeings instead.

BTW, I would love to see AS possibly add a 2nd flight to BOS for the summer as part of this a/c switch. Probably a slim chance but it could happen. But I would expect to see the BOS flight revert to a Boeing in the fall or early winter due to the flying conditions at that time of year.

bb
 
phxa340
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jan 30, 2019 7:34 pm

SANFan wrote:
phxa340 wrote:
AS is showing Airbus equipment for the Boston-San Diego route in August. Is this just a placeholder? Odd to see any Airbii for transcon from SAN.

I've posted about this change on a few threads but apparently not this one. (I honestly didn't think anyone would be interested.) Thanks for asking about it.

The AS skeds show the 'Bus flying to BOS will start on June 6 (the beginning of the peak summer skeds.) That being still 4 months away, there is no guarantee that things will remain as they now show. I find that even a month out, AS still makes some changes to their skeds.

That being said, I would give BOS a 95% chance of happening as now shown. (It is too close to be considered a place holder.) The route has definitely been changed to a 'Bus but it could be undone -- not that unusual these days for AS. I assume the r/t will operate with an A320 but of course there's a chance it could be flown with a 321! The flavor of AirBus to be used will probably not be certain until shortly before the date of travel.

And yes, it is the first AS AirBus operating a long-haul out of SAN; we may see more although AS's trend is to remove 'Buses from transcon routes and use the Boeings instead.

BTW, I would love to see AS possibly add a 2nd flight to BOS for the summer as part of this a/c switch. Probably a slim chance but it could happen. But I would expect to see the BOS flight revert to a Boeing in the fall or early winter due to the flying conditions at that time of year.

bb


Thank you so much for the information! I read all your posts and am very grateful for all of your knowledge and the time you take to inform us. As a a San Diego local, I am wondering too when AS is going to pull the trigger on San-Phx flights as well as San-Lax flights. Phx has always been a huge hole in their network from SAN and if they could connect SAN origin traffic to their LAX network - that would open up a lot more opportunities for us to fly AS.
 
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 31, 2019 12:25 am

phxa340 wrote:
As a a San Diego local, I am wondering too when AS is going to pull the trigger on San-Phx flights as well as San-Lax flights. Phx has always been a huge hole in their network from SAN and if they could connect SAN origin traffic to their LAX network - that would open up a lot more opportunities for us to fly AS.

You're welcome PHX'. Just keep in mind that there are plenty of opinions in my posts but I try to be careful to differentiate them from the facts that I relate.

There's been little to no rumoring that I'm aware of regarding AS growing LAS or PHX but I'm sure it will happen eventually. I foresee connecting those 2 cities with all the major AS cities on the w/c that are not already connected; PHX, as I'm sure you know, is already connected with SEA, PAE, PDX & ANC (and during the Giants' Spring Training, SFO) so I assume AS will at some point connect Sky Harbor with SJC, LAX, SAN -- their remaining hubs and focus cities -- and I'd bet perhaps SMF, SNA & perhaps even FAT. How soon that will happen is completely a guess which I will make: hopefully sometime in 2020?

LAS is already ahead of PHX with service to SEA, PAE, PDX, SFO & LAX so I can see SJC and SAN in their future along with perhaps a couple of the other CA cities as well.. Seasonal ANC service was just dropped so I don't know about that one.

I often wonder about LAX and AS but as long as the Eagle flights serve AS's purposes from SAN, I don't see AS jumping into that busy market. I don't see too many connecting opportunities from SAN via LA except maybe some Mexico and points south and as AS continues to grow SAN, I imagine some of those possible connections will become unnecessary.

But you know the one thing I've thought about for a few years is why AS doesn't start offering direct service SAN-LAX-DCA? They could simply originate that 1 o/clock departure from LA to Reagan as a tag on from SAN (departing about 11:45am). The return from DCA , #1003, arrives in LA at 12:10pm and they could run it down the coast to SAN. That way, AS would be on record as caring enough about SAN-DCA service to perhaps have an advantage when more authorizations for Beyond-Perimeter service from DCA are handed out. (Interestingly enough, WN is in the same boat -- offering direct SAN-DCA r/t via AUS -- so at least AS would level the playing field!) AS did take a stab at SAN-DCA direct service via DAL until they dropped the Texas-DC routes late last year...

The reason I'd bet AS doesn't do such a thing is because I'm sure they sell out the LA-DCA flight as it is so there probably wouldn't be any room for SAN-pax!

That should way over-answer your questions, PHX'! Sorry but SAN-DCA is one of my favorite topics that still makes me instantly angry at AA...

bb
 
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FA9295
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:34 pm

phxa340 wrote:
AS is showing Airbus equipment for the Boston-San Diego route in August. Is this just a placeholder? Odd to see any Airbii for transcon from SAN.

The second summer seasonal PDX-BOS flight will be on the A320 as well.

SAN-MSP goes from the E175 to the A320, and SAN-AUS goes from the E175 to the 737.

I wish Alaska would put the A320 on PDX-MSP, but SAN is a larger market, after all...
 
phxsanslcpdx
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 31, 2019 9:33 pm

phxa340 wrote:
As a a San Diego local, I am wondering too when AS is going to pull the trigger on San-Phx flights as well as San-Lax flights. Phx has always been a huge hole in their network from SAN and if they could connect SAN origin traffic to their LAX network - that would open up a lot more opportunities for us to fly AS.


There just aren't very many destinations from LAX that would make sense for SAN-originating passengers. Most are already served nonstop by one or more competitors from SAN or TIJ. There are already one-stop options for DCA and Anchorage from both AS and competitors (some more convenient than others), as well as nonstop service from both AS and competitors to the other Washington-area airports. The only real benefits are the two Costa Rica destinations (both available as 1-stops from competitors, but not AS, right now) and Manzanillo (competing year-round one-stop from TIJ now; otherwise only seasonal 1-stops on competitors). None of these look very high-yielding or like must-serve routes.

I'm not sure how fully AS is currently using its LAX and SAN gates (or whether they could get into the SAN commuter terminal if they want). But there's a real opportunity cost for any potential SAN-LAX flight. And it seems to me like that math just doesn't work in AS's favor now or for the foreseeable future.
 
phxa340
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jan 31, 2019 9:42 pm

phxsanslcpdx wrote:
phxa340 wrote:
As a a San Diego local, I am wondering too when AS is going to pull the trigger on San-Phx flights as well as San-Lax flights. Phx has always been a huge hole in their network from SAN and if they could connect SAN origin traffic to their LAX network - that would open up a lot more opportunities for us to fly AS.


There just aren't very many destinations from LAX that would make sense for SAN-originating passengers. Most are already served nonstop by one or more competitors from SAN or TIJ. There are already one-stop options for DCA and Anchorage from both AS and competitors (some more convenient than others), as well as nonstop service from both AS and competitors to the other Washington-area airports. The only real benefits are the two Costa Rica destinations (both available as 1-stops from competitors, but not AS, right now) and Manzanillo (competing year-round one-stop from TIJ now; otherwise only seasonal 1-stops on competitors). None of these look very high-yielding or like must-serve routes.

I'm not sure how fully AS is currently using its LAX and SAN gates (or whether they could get into the SAN commuter terminal if they want). But there's a real opportunity cost for any potential SAN-LAX flight. And it seems to me like that math just doesn't work in AS's favor now or for the foreseeable future.


I was thinking not so much from a destination perspective but from a schedule perspective. I can’t tell you how many times I have needed to go to NY or Boston and if AS offered a connection from SAN to LAX I could have flown them and their multiple departures from lax to Bos and NY. non stops from SD are 1x day and if the times don’t work ... Additionally, the FLL flight from LAX would be amazing if I could connect onto that. If AS wants to truly be a preferred airline for SAN, they need to have some more options, even via connections, than the nonstops they offer now IMO. I do also acknowledge that they seem to be consistently offering more connection options which is great because they are hands down the best from SAN.
 
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 01, 2019 1:52 am

WN extended their skeds today, from Aug 6 thru September. There were a couple of things for SAN that I thought I'd mention.

Most routes maintained their frequency levels from the peak summer skeds, such as 16 weekday flights to SJC, and 15 to SMF! (SAN-OAK remains at 12 flights.) Here's a test: which of these 3 busy intra-CA routes is NOT served by AS?

Some of our existing seasonal routes ended: IND, MKE, and TPA. SEA suffered a cut-back to a single flight while PHX saw a 1-flight increase.

But the additional two routes discontinued IMO are meaningful: PVR and ORF. Unfortunately. PVR has been operated by WN continuously since it began in March 2018, although only on the weekends (Sat & Sun.) So for the first time, it is not operating. Maybe it will return in the winter but we'll have to see. Of course AS also operates the route from once a week to as many as 4 days per week, depending on the time of the year. (I imagine AS would be thrilled to have run WN off the route if that's how it plays out.) But my feeling is that WN will be back at least during November and December.

ORF bothers me the most. The Sunday-only service to start this June will therefore operate only a total of 9 times. If the route is a test for WN, is that even enough operations to tell if the route is viable or not? I hope it passes the test and that the route will return.

I would like to think of these dropped flights as opportunities for, yeah, you guessed it, AS. I've hoped for a while that IND, MKE, TPA and now ORF would be grabbed by the folks up in Seattle; instead, F9 has started MKE and IND during the time when WN doesn't serve them! I don't know if that will continue or not.

Come on AS! Let's fill up all those nice new gates of yours in T2E.

bb
 
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 01, 2019 3:01 am

SANFan wrote:
WN extended their skeds today, from Aug 6 thru September. There were a couple of things for SAN that I thought I'd mention.

Most routes maintained their frequency levels from the peak summer skeds, such as 16 weekday flights to SJC, and 15 to SMF! (SAN-OAK remains at 12 flights.) Here's a test: which of these 3 busy intra-CA routes is NOT served by AS?


Oooh, oooh, I know!! ;)

Some of our existing seasonal routes ended: IND, MKE, and TPA. SEA suffered a cut-back to a single flight while PHX saw a 1-flight increase.

But the additional two routes discontinued IMO are meaningful: PVR and ORF. Unfortunately. PVR has been operated by WN continuously since it began in March 2018, although only on the weekends (Sat & Sun.) So for the first time, it is not operating. Maybe it will return in the winter but we'll have to see. Of course AS also operates the route from once a week to as many as 4 days per week, depending on the time of the year. (I imagine AS would be thrilled to have run WN off the route if that's how it plays out.) But my feeling is that WN will be back at least during November and December.


Mexico markets from San Diego are a head-scratcher. What should, in theory, work, mostly doesn't, thanks to TIJ - and a shout-out to Cross-Border Xpress, which makes using TIJ almost as simple as SAN. There's a daily Volaris non-stop to TIJ, meaning I don't have to plan my trip around the day of the week a flight is scheduled. The savings on the airfare alone will more than pay for the Xpress crossing. Unless AS or WN can offer me something cheaper, and on my schedule, sorry, no thank you.

ORF bothers me the most. The Sunday-only service to start this June will therefore operate only a total of 9 times. If the route is a test for WN, is that even enough operations to tell if the route is viable or not? I hope it passes the test and that the route will return.


I agree, but what if strong early bookings made them change their mind? And considering that this is going to have a lot of military traffic - is the demand for SAN-ORF non-stop skewed heavily towards that day naturally?

I would like to think of these dropped flights as opportunities for, yeah, you guessed it, AS. I've hoped for a while that IND, MKE, TPA and now ORF would be grabbed by the folks up in Seattle; instead, F9 has started MKE and IND during the time when WN doesn't serve them! I don't know if that will continue or not.

Come on AS! Let's fill up all those nice new gates of yours in T2E.


Agreed - either WN or AS are best poised to take advantage of these types of routes. Let's cross our fingers!!
 
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LindyFlight
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 01, 2019 7:25 am

Hello, thought I should share this...
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-30jan19/
BA will utilize a 777-200ER in place of the 777-300ER from May 31, 2019, to June 16, 2019. Wonder what their reasoning is behind this swap?
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 01, 2019 5:18 pm

LindyFlight wrote:
Hello, thought I should share this...
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-30jan19/
BA will utilize a 777-200ER in place of the 777-300ER from May 31, 2019, to June 16, 2019. Wonder what their reasoning is behind this swap?

I saw that yesterday and figured it's a non-item. The post actually says "selected dates between 5/31 and 6/16" so out of a 2 week period SOME days will see the 772 rather than the 773.

Sounds like a very short-lived MX issue more than likely. Otherwise, no idea here.

bb
 
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LindyFlight
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Feb 01, 2019 6:40 pm

SANFan wrote:
LindyFlight wrote:
Hello, thought I should share this...
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-30jan19/
BA will utilize a 777-200ER in place of the 777-300ER from May 31, 2019, to June 16, 2019. Wonder what their reasoning is behind this swap?

I saw that yesterday and figured it's a non-item. The post actually says "selected dates between 5/31 and 6/16" so out of a 2 week period SOME days will see the 772 rather than the 773.

Sounds like a very short-lived MX issue more than likely. Otherwise, no idea here.

bb


That makes sense, knew I missed a detail from that post.
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Feb 02, 2019 8:13 am

The SAN year-end passenger totals came out today and it was a great year! Here's the link to the December Air Traffic Report at SAN.org:
https://www.san.org/DesktopModules/Brin ... &TabId=403

Total pax using SAN in 2018: 24,238,300 - needless to say, the highest annual total ever at SDIA!
Total pax increase over 2017: 9.3%, also, I believe, the largest annual % increase y-o-y ever at SDIA!
Total International pax in 2018: 1,042,686, highest number ever!
Total international pax increase over 2017: 19.3%! Pax using Int'l FIS facilities at SAN made up 1.5% of all pax at SDIA in 2018; 1.4% in 2017.
Total operations at SAN in 2018: 199,183, an 8.7% increase over 2017!
International carrier growth in December 2017 alone saw: WS - +33%, AC - up 23% on 19% increase in seats, JL - +20% on 10% increase in seats, and
BA saw a 10% in pax on an 8% increase in seats offered!
Even international cargo tonnage for 2018 was up 30%
Finally, the month of February 2019 is expected to see a 7.8% increase in seat capacity offered; March will see a 6.2% increase!

Very impressive numbers last year folks. There was really nothing negative reported except perhaps a 1.5% drop in all cargo. Quite an amazing year for 663 acres of former mudflats along the coastline, 2 miles from the center of downtown San Diego!

bb
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