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AF773
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed May 22, 2019 11:37 pm

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
And welcome aboard, AF773 - glad to have you here! You have seen that we had two of "you" here last fall, yes?


Thank you so much, and yes indeed two special flights made it to SAN from Paris.
If only these could come back, less special and more regular....
Next flights: SAN-SEA-ANC-MSP-CDG-TLN-ORY; CDG-AMS-DTW-DCA-MSP-SAN; SAN-SLC-SFO-LAX-SAN; SNA-SEA-HNL-SLC-SNA; SAN-LAX-CDG-SLC-SNA
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu May 23, 2019 2:48 am

AF773 wrote:
PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
And welcome aboard, AF773 - glad to have you here! You have seen that we had two of "you" here last fall, yes?


Thank you so much, and yes indeed two special flights made it to SAN from Paris.
If only these could come back, less special and more regular....


Regular, yes please!

Less special? It could NEVER be!

Maybe AF/KL might one day split services to CDG and AMS on a regular basis!!
 
cheapflier
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat May 25, 2019 7:27 am

My understanding from last year is the airport is keen to let Lufthansa breathe and wouldn't "actively" seek out new carriers in Europe. I read into that as they're hoping LH goes 7x and they would focus their attention (and budget) to Asia (i.e. PR), but if they lose Edelweiss and LH doesn't go weekly then I have to think FY2020 is about relaunching a worldwide campaign.

I could see Flair or Jetlines coming in if they're still around or off the ground, respectively. Personally, I'd like to see Norwegian, but admittedly it's unlikely. Any thoughts on a South American carrier like Copa/Avianca or LATAM?
 
amadorE175
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat May 25, 2019 8:33 am

cheapflier wrote:
My understanding from last year is the airport is keen to let Lufthansa breathe and wouldn't "actively" seek out new carriers in Europe. I read into that as they're hoping LH goes 7x and they would focus their attention (and budget) to Asia (i.e. PR), but if they lose Edelweiss and LH doesn't go weekly then I have to think FY2020 is about relaunching a worldwide campaign.

I could see Flair or Jetlines coming in if they're still around or off the ground, respectively. Personally, I'd like to see Norwegian, but admittedly it's unlikely. Any thoughts on a South American carrier like Copa/Avianca or LATAM?


Yes, the incentives work that way. The Europe ones are spoken for at the moment and the attention is elsewhere. Copa was close to coming to fruition a couple years back but fell through because of staffing issues with the old FIS (something something about not having enough payroll hours (more or less) to get staff at the FIS for to accommodate Copa's schedule).

Another Asian carrier would be nice. The ongoing discussion has featured PR and KE at various times but nothing has come to fruition.
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat May 25, 2019 1:49 pm

Out of curiousity, does anyone know the percentage of travelers on JAL that are flying to Japan versus the percentage connecting to elsewhere in Asia?

If the connecting numbers are large, is it primarily to MNL? Or is it all over Asia?

If JL is connecting lots of people to MNL, PR's entrance to SAN might dilute the loads of both JL and their own out of LAX.

If that isn't JL's main market, then maybe one day we will see a flight to ICN.
 
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Coronado990
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat May 25, 2019 4:27 pm

I'm surprised COPA hasn't started service to TIJ to initially introduce service to the region. TIJ is probably less expensive to operate out of and being Latin America, they share a similar culture and the same language. Scheduling wise, they could do a quick 60 minute midnight turn around, something that cannot be done at SAN because of the curfew. Eventually, they should serve both SAN & TIJ. That's a combined metro area of 5 million people that is missing from their route map. Seems strange they haven't jumped on it yet.
We're up.
 
MAH4546
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat May 25, 2019 5:50 pm

SANMAN66 wrote:
SANFan wrote:

(Also, I assume PHX being downgraded to a 787 Speedbird has to do with AA adding their own flight between PDX and LHR. Not a surprise there.)

bb


Now it's starting to make sense about BA downgrading their PHX flight to a 787. I had forgot that AA added their own LHR flight. The new AA flight from PHX is probably trashing BA's yields from there.


AA and BA operate on a joint venture and co-determine pricing, so definitely not trashing each other’s yields, not to an extent greater than if BA had simply added its own second flight.

PHX-Europe is underserved, so guessing there is minimal decline.
a.
 
SANMAN66
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat May 25, 2019 5:53 pm

Quite possibly that COPA hasn't yet started SAN could be because of the grounding of the 737 MAX planes? I know they had announced 737 MAX routes last year, but the two MAX crashes most likely threw a wrench in their plans forcing them to continue using the older model 737s?
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Devilfish
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat May 25, 2019 6:57 pm

amadorE175 wrote:
Another Asian carrier would be nice. The ongoing discussion has featured PR and KE at various times but nothing has come to fruition.

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
If JL is connecting lots of people to MNL, PR's entrance to SAN might dilute the loads of both JL and their own out of LAX.

Assuming the demand is viable, the most practical way for it to happen is for ANA to provide the service (subject to bilaterals) and stop at NRT along the way instead.....


It could be sustainable on the strength of its partnership with PR...unless the SDIAA convinces PAL to fly the route themselves, and they acquire the right equipment for the job.
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
amadorE175
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun May 26, 2019 2:06 am

As an update to the perennial PR equipment question, I had asked Zeke in the Cathay thread about CX's A359 out of SAN considering the runways and terrain.

Zeke's response: "09 is a bit short, 27 would limit payload to about 25 tonnes which would not be commercially viable on the -900. Would get better payload with the -1000."

So, by extension to PR and MNL, the A359 wouldn't be suitable, but the A35K could possibly. If PR took up their A35K options and had an average configuration and went daily, that (335 x 7 =) 2,345 extra seats in the market. They're already planning on 17x MNL-LAX so that'd be a lot of seats to add but if they shifted those 3x weekly flights to SAN that might be more doable and interesting. All fantasy for now!
 
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Devilfish
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun May 26, 2019 6:11 am

amadorE175 wrote:
So, by extension to PR and MNL, the A359 wouldn't be suitable, but the A35K could possibly. If PR took up their A35K options and had an average configuration and went daily, that (335 x 7 =) 2,345 extra seats in the market. They're already planning on 17x MNL-LAX so that'd be a lot of seats to add but if they shifted those 3x weekly flights to SAN that might be more doable and interesting. All fantasy for now!

The problem is will PR be able to fill it? Ethnic numbers alone do not guarantee good load factors...while LAX is a whole different ballgame altogether. They couldn't make CEB-LAX work, though. As it is, I guess JL is sending the 788 to SAN because that is all the market could support and why I suggested the ANA stop at NRT to boost the front end uptake somewhat.


I too would like to see PR in SAN so family and friends wouldn't have to make the longish trek to LA when they visit home...but there's nary a peep from the SDIAA top brass about the result of their trip to Manila, is there? Others will again flame me for this, but if ever, I only see them at SAN with the 251T A338 -- replacing the LAS and JFK tag-ons to YVR on alternate days. The A350 is much too expensive for PR's pocket now to be risking on a long, nonstop TPAC crossing to a secondary destination.

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=MNL-YVR-SAN&MS=wls&DU=nm


This would be a nice step up from the old PR A340s..... :cloudnine: .....

Image
https://airspace.airbus.com/wp-content/ ... 20x914.jpg
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed May 29, 2019 5:30 pm

Hey gang, according to RoutesOnline, posted on Monday:

London Heathrow – San Diego eff 29MAR20 747-400 continues to operate in summer 2020 season, replacing 777-300ER in S19


So our speculation up-thread regarding Speedbird for next year has been clarified -- 'The Queen' (of the Skies) will be flying to SAN year-round beginning this fall! (As of now.) I find this to be pretty exciting news. All that remains in question for me is if the times of the service will be changed?

Also reported yesterday on RoutesOnline is that AS has now rescheduled the inaugural scheduled service of their MAX9 to 8/27, on 2 routes -- SEA-SAN and SEA-LAX.

WN extends their schedules tomorrow (for the end of the year.) Might there be some indication of the start-up of Hawaii service from SAN? At least perhaps there is some new guidance on the MAX fleet re-introduction that may be reflected in the new WN schedules (effective this November.)

It's nice to see a bit of news involving SAN for a change; there hasn't been much happening lately!

bb
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed May 29, 2019 5:48 pm

I just found another piece of news at SAN.org just posted this morning:.

JetBlue Airways operations at San Diego International Airport to relocate to Terminal 1

Wednesday, May 29, 2019

SAN DIEGO – May 29, 2019 – Effective June 5, JetBlue Airways at San Diego International Airport (SAN) will move its terminal operations to Terminal 1. The move is the second phase of SAN’s airline relocation efforts to support future airline growth and ongoing airport operations.

JetBlue is the seventh largest carrier at SAN in terms of operations, with year-round nonstop service to Boston (BOS), New York (JFK), and Fort Lauderdale (FLL). JetBlue commenced service in San Diego in 2003. In 2017, JetBlue launched its premium class Mint service on its SAN-BOS and SAN-JFK routes.

JetBlue will join Spirit Airlines, Allegiant Airlines, Frontier Airlines and Sun Country Airlines on the west end of Terminal 1, utilizing gates 11–18.


bb
 
blacksoviet
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed May 29, 2019 6:19 pm

SANFan wrote:
I just found another piece of news at SAN.org just posted this morning:.

JetBlue Airways operations at San Diego International Airport to relocate to Terminal 1

Wednesday, May 29, 2019

SAN DIEGO – May 29, 2019 – Effective June 5, JetBlue Airways at San Diego International Airport (SAN) will move its terminal operations to Terminal 1. The move is the second phase of SAN’s airline relocation efforts to support future airline growth and ongoing airport operations.

JetBlue is the seventh largest carrier at SAN in terms of operations, with year-round nonstop service to Boston (BOS), New York (JFK), and Fort Lauderdale (FLL). JetBlue commenced service in San Diego in 2003. In 2017, JetBlue launched its premium class Mint service on its SAN-BOS and SAN-JFK routes.

JetBlue will join Spirit Airlines, Allegiant Airlines, Frontier Airlines and Sun Country Airlines on the west end of Terminal 1, utilizing gates 11–18.


bb

Jetblue will need three gates. Does this mean that Southwest will no longer be able to use gates in Terminal 1 West?
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed May 29, 2019 7:39 pm

Image

So a quick calculation of B6's times at SAN show that at one point there are three aircraft at one time. The rest of the time there isn't much going on except for midday; however, that peak point between 7 and 10 PM looks to be quite busy!

It makes sense then for B6 to utilize CUTE gates, as 60% of their available seats are schedule to arrive within 30 minutes of each other, and three departures beginning within an hour of the last arrival. Given that Southwest only uses one gate in T1 West, they could easily "share" with B6 for that two-hour window. Of course, I'm not the scheduler for CUTE gate usage, but I don't think this will impact Southwest much, if at all.
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed May 29, 2019 8:15 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
Jetblue will need three gates. Does this mean that Southwest will no longer be able to use gates in Terminal 1 West?

B6 doesn't really need 3 gates. There is sometimes (seasonally, certain days of the week) a period of less than an hour in the evening when they have a JFK, a BOS and the FLL flight on the ground at the same time (assuming all flights are on time.) The gates in T1W are all generic (CUTE or whatever the latest term is) so B6 would use 3 gates for maybe an hour, generally at a time when G4 and SY have no operations.

In other words, there are 8 gates in T1W. WN is now using up to 3 gates (11-13) in the West Rotunda leaving 5 gates for the other 5 cx to use. Until such time as there is significant growth by any or all of these smaller cx, the number of gates there should be more than sufficient to handle the planned ops.

One last thought. Remember that B6 today only has 6 flights/day. It would seem to me that Blue might very well be able to tweak their skeds a bit in order to spread out that evening flight bolus and eliminate the 3-flight overlap. And if they suddenly were to add even 3 or 4 more flights, with careful scheduling, the number of needed gates should not increase significantly.

bb
 
blacksoviet
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed May 29, 2019 8:51 pm

So which gate does Sun Country get?
 
SANMAN66
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed May 29, 2019 11:02 pm

SANFan wrote:
Hey gang, according to RoutesOnline, posted on Monday:

London Heathrow – San Diego eff 29MAR20 747-400 continues to operate in summer 2020 season, replacing 777-300ER in S19


So our speculation up-thread regarding Speedbird for next year has been clarified -- 'The Queen' (of the Skies) will be flying to SAN year-round beginning this fall!


Yup! The "Queen of the skies" will be gracing the San Diego skies the whole year-round! To further confirm it, the PHX a-netters are already saying their BA flight 744 will be downgraded to a 787.
PSA Gives you a lift!
 
SANMAN66
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed May 29, 2019 11:07 pm

SANFan wrote:
I just found another piece of news at SAN.org just posted this morning:.

JetBlue Airways operations at San Diego International Airport to relocate to Terminal 1

Wednesday, May 29, 2019

SAN DIEGO – May 29, 2019 – Effective June 5, JetBlue Airways at San Diego International Airport (SAN) will move its terminal operations to Terminal 1. The move is the second phase of SAN’s airline relocation efforts to support future airline growth and ongoing airport operations.

JetBlue is the seventh largest carrier at SAN in terms of operations, with year-round nonstop service to Boston (BOS), New York (JFK), and Fort Lauderdale (FLL). JetBlue commenced service in San Diego in 2003. In 2017, JetBlue launched its premium class Mint service on its SAN-BOS and SAN-JFK routes.

JetBlue will join Spirit Airlines, Allegiant Airlines, Frontier Airlines and Sun Country Airlines on the west end of Terminal 1, utilizing gates 11–18.


bb


If JetBlue moves over to T-1, wouldn't it be that much harder to relocate F9,WN,G4, and SY when they decide to replace T-1?
PSA Gives you a lift!
 
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Coronado990
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed May 29, 2019 11:14 pm

SANMAN66 wrote:
SANFan wrote:
Hey gang, according to RoutesOnline, posted on Monday:

London Heathrow – San Diego eff 29MAR20 747-400 continues to operate in summer 2020 season, replacing 777-300ER in S19


So our speculation up-thread regarding Speedbird for next year has been clarified -- 'The Queen' (of the Skies) will be flying to SAN year-round beginning this fall!


Yup! The "Queen of the skies" will be gracing the San Diego skies the whole year-round! To further confirm it, the PHX a-netters are already saying their BA flight 744 will be downgraded to a 787.



Great! More chance of seeing the BOAC livery. But who is going to bring in a 777-300 because that's a looker too.
We're up.
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu May 30, 2019 2:50 am

Coronado990 wrote:
SANMAN66 wrote:
SANFan wrote:
Hey gang, according to RoutesOnline, posted on Monday:

So our speculation up-thread regarding Speedbird for next year has been clarified -- 'The Queen' (of the Skies) will be flying to SAN year-round beginning this fall!


Yup! The "Queen of the skies" will be gracing the San Diego skies the whole year-round! To further confirm it, the PHX a-netters are already saying their BA flight 744 will be downgraded to a 787.


Great! More chance of seeing the BOAC livery. But who is going to bring in a 777-300 because that's a looker too.




One or the other, or a mix.
 
blacksoviet
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu May 30, 2019 10:42 pm

Flightaware reports that tonight's BA flight is a 77L.
 
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hawaiian717
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu May 30, 2019 11:06 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
Flightaware reports that tonight's BA flight is a 77L.


I don't know where you're seeing that. Flightradar24 gives the tail number G-STBK which is a 777-300ER (77W), and Flightaware also says 777-300ER.

https://www.flightradar24.com/BAW44N/20b40210

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/BAW273

77L is 777-200LR which BA does not have.
 
blacksoviet
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu May 30, 2019 11:11 pm

hawaiian717 wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
Flightaware reports that tonight's BA flight is a 77L.


I don't know where you're seeing that. Flightradar24 gives the tail number G-STBK which is a 777-300ER (77W), and Flightaware also says 777-300ER.

https://www.flightradar24.com/BAW44N/20b40210

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/BAW273

77L is 777-200LR which BA does not have.

Flightaware reports the outbound flight as a 77L. Flight BA 272.
 
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hawaiian717
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu May 30, 2019 11:23 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
Flightaware reports the outbound flight as a 77L. Flight BA 272.


Bad data. Probably someone entered the wrong code when filing the flight plan. With a 77W currently en-route, and no 77L's in the BA fleet, it's going to be a 77W.
 
SANMAN66
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri May 31, 2019 4:18 am

It definitely was a 77W yesterday, I saw it coming in. All the widebodies landing at SAN seem to fly in much slower than the numerous 737s and A320s. The BA 744 seems to float in for a landing.
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AF773
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri May 31, 2019 4:51 am

[quote=[/quote]



One or the other, or a mix.[/quote]

Yesssss!!!, although I am betting more on A332 for either or both :)
Next flights: SAN-SEA-ANC-MSP-CDG-TLN-ORY; CDG-AMS-DTW-DCA-MSP-SAN; SAN-SLC-SFO-LAX-SAN; SNA-SEA-HNL-SLC-SNA; SAN-LAX-CDG-SLC-SNA
 
blacksoviet
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri May 31, 2019 5:49 am

SANMAN66 wrote:
It definitely was a 77W yesterday, I saw it coming in. All the widebodies landing at SAN seem to fly in much slower than the numerous 737s and A320s. The BA 744 seems to float in for a landing.

I thought widebodies were supposed to fly faster than domestic aircraft.
 
blacksoviet
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri May 31, 2019 5:54 am

AF773 wrote:
[quote=




One or the other, or a mix.[/quote]

Yesssss!!!, although I am betting more on A332 for either or both :)[/quote]
I doubt the A333 has enough range to fly from CDG to SAN. Maybe from AMS but not CDG.
 
AF773
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri May 31, 2019 1:29 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
AF773 wrote:
[quote=




One or the other, or a mix.


Yesssss!!!, although I am betting more on A332 for either or both :)[/quote]
I doubt the A333 has enough range to fly from CDG to SAN. Maybe from AMS but not CDG.[/quote]

Good thing I said A332 :P
Next flights: SAN-SEA-ANC-MSP-CDG-TLN-ORY; CDG-AMS-DTW-DCA-MSP-SAN; SAN-SLC-SFO-LAX-SAN; SNA-SEA-HNL-SLC-SNA; SAN-LAX-CDG-SLC-SNA
 
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Coronado990
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri May 31, 2019 5:47 pm

I was going to watch the Edelweiss A340 come in today but noticed WK18 was cancelled today. They must be one plane short.
We're up.
 
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LindyFlight
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri May 31, 2019 6:47 pm

Coronado990 wrote:
I was going to watch the Edelweiss A340 come in today but noticed WK18 was cancelled today. They must be one plane short.

Seems like it, one of their 4 returned back to ZRH while bound for EZE (reg. HB-JMG) on 5/29 and was out of service until today.
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri May 31, 2019 8:06 pm

LindyFlight wrote:
Coronado990 wrote:
I was going to watch the Edelweiss A340 come in today but noticed WK18 was cancelled today. They must be one plane short.

Seems like it, one of their 4 returned back to ZRH while bound for EZE (reg. HB-JMG) on 5/29 and was out of service until today.

Hi guys. I hope it was that mx issue rather than extremely low pax loads... in both directions. If it was xld due to ops issues, will they fly it here maybe tomorrow? Unfortunately there was not even a LH flight today for WK to put their pax on.

Not a good start to the season for our one and only Euro LCC.

bb.
 
blacksoviet
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri May 31, 2019 10:38 pm

Will Alaska launch FLL with a 73G to compete with Jetblue?
 
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Coronado990
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jun 01, 2019 3:55 pm

SANFan wrote:
LindyFlight wrote:
Coronado990 wrote:
I was going to watch the Edelweiss A340 come in today but noticed WK18 was cancelled today. They must be one plane short.

Seems like it, one of their 4 returned back to ZRH while bound for EZE (reg. HB-JMG) on 5/29 and was out of service until today.

Hi guys. I hope it was that mx issue rather than extremely low pax loads... in both directions. If it was xld due to ops issues, will they fly it here maybe tomorrow? Unfortunately there was not even a LH flight today for WK to put their pax on.

Not a good start to the season for our one and only Euro LCC.

bb.



Probably put them on today's LH flight.
We're up.
 
blacksoviet
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jun 01, 2019 8:48 pm

Didn't Air Canada use Terminal 1 in the past? What gate did they use? Where was the FIS located? Which baggage claim did they use?
 
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hawaiian717
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:56 am

blacksoviet wrote:
Didn't Air Canada use Terminal 1 in the past? What gate did they use? Where was the FIS located? Which baggage claim did they use?


I believe they did. Likely a United gate as they are Star Alliance partners. But the major Canadian airports have US customs preclearance so they arrive at SAN as a domestic flight, so it wasn’t necessary for them to use gates connected to the FIS.
 
cheapflier
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:16 am

blacksoviet wrote:
So which gate does Sun Country get?


Usually Sun Country uses 16 with Spirit. Allegiant does the same at 15.
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jun 09, 2019 8:08 am

I thought I’d summarize some facts and figures for SDIA as we approach the halfway point in the year as well as the peak summer travel season.

So far, as of early June, we have seen 6 new routes started/added by the various SAN cx: ELP (AS), PAE (AS), LAS (F9), OMA (WN), ORF (WN) and PDX (SY.) In contrast, last year by June, we saw 17 new routes announced!)

WN has dropped 9 flights from SAN’s summer (peak) schedules due mostly/supposedly to the grounding of the MAXs. Nobody’s sure when that situation will be resolved. Amongst the dropped flights by WN are a few routes completely disappearing: EWR, MCO and I’m going to include TPA as it was reduced from a daily r/t to once a week. (I will not include MKE however as it was originally scheduled to operate once a week for the summer, and it still is…) The “surviving” routes losing one daily frequency are: BWI, BNA, MDW, HOU, SAT & SMF. These 9 lost frequencies represent a ~7% cut in service for the peak travel season and perhaps more importantly, they may indicate the weaker routes that WN flies from SAN – MCO, EWR and TPA. I will add MKE, ORF and IND to that list due the minimal service WN provides in these markets. (Are you paying attention to this list, AS?)

I must also mention that there is still not a single word from WN regarding Hawaii service from SAN. I know the MAX grounding has affected that service as well but there had never been any detailed plans released regarding SAN-to-HI so I remain skeptical if or when we will see such service…

By the way, speaking once more of WN, they now appear to be using 3 gates in T1W –11, 12, 13 -- giving them 14 total gates now at SDIA. (This assumes they are still using all 3 gates at the far east end of T1, 1, 2 and that third one.)

WK (Edelweiss) cut back their service in 2019 to essentially just late May thru late September; I counted just 35 flights operating this season and we know the 1st flight, May 24, did not operate due to mx issues. (I assume and hope they’ve been operating the rest of their scheduled flights since.) Their plans for 2020 here????

In another fairly significant service reduction, IMO, AA has cancelled their very long-lived nonstop to JFK for this summer but, as of now, daily-double service returns on 8/20. Many say this is based on runway work at JFK this summer but some say it is more than that.. Who knows but I do hope the routet stays once it returns later this summer.

Jet Blue now lives in T1. At least they have the best ticket counter location in the west end -- closest to the TSA entrance to the gate area. They now share that west rotunda with WN, NK, F9, G4 and SY. Quite an interesting and crowded mix.

Overall, pax traffic at SDIA remains strong and is continuing to increase although the growth rate is down from 2018.
> Total pax thru SAN this April totaled 2,089,139, up 5% over Apr 2018;
> Total traffic for 2019 (thru April) is 7.5+M, up 4.7% over the first 4 months of 2018.. (The total, year end pax growth rate in 2018 was 9.3 %.) SAN should have no trouble surpassing 25M pax in 2019!
> Int’l pax for April were 86,805, DOWN .3% from Apr 2018. The number of pax using the FIS was 28,596, DOWN 15%! The SDIA folks reported these decreases as due to the lack of WK service in April plus some Mexico service redux. (As evidence, there were 165 ops thru FIS this Apr, and 228 last Apr!)
> In April, WN showed a market share at SAN of 38.5%, AS enjoyed its highest market share of the year so far at 14.5%, and UA was third best with 12.4% of the pax.

I' d say this year has cooled off a bit at SDIA from the incredible growth we’ve seen over the last few years but I imagine there are many airports in the U.S. who would love to have our growth figures. And I expect 2020 may hold some pleasant surprises for us. We already know that BA’s Speedbird will apparently remain a 747 next summer – that’s not a bad start to the 2020 SAN-av-news!

bb
 
blacksoviet
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jun 09, 2019 8:26 am

I can't believe there are six airlines operating out of the West Rotunda. Could anybody have imagined this back in 2009? At the time Alaska and United controlled the entire rotunda. Now they have both moved to Terminal 2 and most of the airlines that were in Terminal 2 East have now moved to the West Rotunda. I am excited to see construction begin on the new terminal but I have a feeling that won't happen for another five years.
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
Topic Author
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jun 09, 2019 3:50 pm

SANFan wrote:
I thought I’d summarize some facts and figures for SDIA as we approach the halfway point in the year as well as the peak summer travel season.

So far, as of early June, we have seen 6 new routes started/added by the various SAN cx: ELP (AS), PAE (AS), LAS (F9), OMA (WN), ORF (WN) and PDX (SY.) In contrast, last year by June, we saw 17 new routes announced!)

WN has dropped 9 flights from SAN’s summer (peak) schedules due mostly/supposedly to the grounding of the MAXs. Nobody’s sure when that situation will be resolved. Amongst the dropped flights by WN are a few routes completely disappearing: EWR, MCO and I’m going to include TPA as it was reduced from a daily r/t to once a week. (I will not include MKE however as it was originally scheduled to operate once a week for the summer, and it still is…) The “surviving” routes losing one daily frequency are: BWI, BNA, MDW, HOU, SAT & SMF. These 9 lost frequencies represent a ~7% cut in service for the peak travel season and perhaps more importantly, they may indicate the weaker routes that WN flies from SAN – MCO, EWR and TPA. I will add MKE, ORF and IND to that list due the minimal service WN provides in these markets. (Are you paying attention to this list, AS?)

I must also mention that there is still not a single word from WN regarding Hawaii service from SAN. I know the MAX grounding has affected that service as well but there had never been any detailed plans released regarding SAN-to-HI so I remain skeptical if or when we will see such service…


It's always been impressive to me how quickly WN can respond to changing markets: they can offer non-daily non-stops very easily in seasonal markets. Yes, others can and do the same thing, bypassing their "hubs", but Southwest has always been the champion in this category.

However, Hawai'i is a different matter. We know WN was counting on the MAX's to carry out this new endeavor; however, with those grounded, a whole lot is on hold. Much like with Kilauea and Madame Pele, sometimes all we mere humans can do is be patient until things return to normal.

By the way, speaking once more of WN, they now appear to be using 3 gates in T1W –11, 12, 13 -- giving them 14 total gates now at SDIA. (This assumes they are still using all 3 gates at the far east end of T1, 1, 2 and that third one.)


Yep, flew Southwest this last Memorial Day weekend (SAN-MDW-SAN) and I can confirm this: the people who used to spend their days telling people at Terminals 1 and 2, "if you're flying to LAX, you're at the wrong terminal! You need to take the red bus to the Commuter Terminal!" are now employed to tell passengers that there are, "not one, not two, but THREE different security checkpoints, and you need to check your boarding pass VERY carefully to make sure you're in the right one!"

WK (Edelweiss) cut back their service in 2019 to essentially just late May thru late September; I counted just 35 flights operating this season and we know the 1st flight, May 24, did not operate due to mx issues. (I assume and hope they’ve been operating the rest of their scheduled flights since.) Their plans for 2020 here????


At least this year the LH group coordinated the schedules, ensuring one daily flight on all seven days. In 2017, both airlines had a flight on Mondays, and none on one of the other days. It made absolutely no sense to me at all, but it seems to be updated.

My hypothesis: LH is looking at yields from connections this summer, making the decision as to whether SAN is ready for x5 to become x7 from FRA or perhaps a mix with MUC.

In another fairly significant service reduction, IMO, AA has cancelled their very long-lived nonstop to JFK for this summer but, as of now, daily-double service returns on 8/20. Many say this is based on runway work at JFK this summer but some say it is more than that.. Who knows but I do hope the route stays once it returns later this summer.


Between the MAX and runway closure, I would imagine that this is a temporary cancellation, and will return when the "restrictions" are lifted.

Jet Blue now lives in T1. At least they have the best ticket counter location in the west end -- closest to the TSA entrance to the gate area. They now share that west rotunda with WN, NK, F9, G4 and SY. Quite an interesting and crowded mix.


A crowded mix for an always-crowded terminal.. :D I'd love to know who shares gates with whom in T1West!

Overall, pax traffic at SDIA remains strong and is continuing to increase although the growth rate is down from 2018.
> Total pax thru SAN this April totaled 2,089,139, up 5% over Apr 2018;
> Total traffic for 2019 (thru April) is 7.5+M, up 4.7% over the first 4 months of 2018.. (The total, year end pax growth rate in 2018 was 9.3 %.) SAN should have no trouble surpassing 25M pax in 2019!
> Int’l pax for April were 86,805, DOWN .3% from Apr 2018. The number of pax using the FIS was 28,596, DOWN 15%! The SDIA folks reported these decreases as due to the lack of WK service in April plus some Mexico service redux. (As evidence, there were 165 ops thru FIS this Apr, and 228 last Apr!)
> In April, WN showed a market share at SAN of 38.5%, AS enjoyed its highest market share of the year so far at 14.5%, and UA was third best with 12.4% of the pax.

I' d say this year has cooled off a bit at SDIA from the incredible growth we’ve seen over the last few years but I imagine there are many airports in the U.S. who would love to have our growth figures. And I expect 2020 may hold some pleasant surprises for us. We already know that BA’s Speedbird will apparently remain a 747 next summer – that’s not a bad start to the 2020 SAN-av-news!

bb


If British Airways is going to continue to fly the magnificent 747 into San Diego, that indicates the plane is wildly profitable - that has to mean cargo and F class demands warrant its continued use.

Hopefully, when BA retires the type, the last revenue flight will be LHR-SAN-LHR.

blacksoviet wrote:
I can't believe there are six airlines operating out of the West Rotunda. Could anybody have imagined this back in 2009? At the time Alaska and United controlled the entire rotunda. Now they have both moved to Terminal 2 and most of the airlines that were in Terminal 2 East have now moved to the West Rotunda. I am excited to see construction begin on the new terminal but I have a feeling that won't happen for another five years.


I fear you might be right, but as tired and outdated as Terminal One is, it will have to continue to function for a while. That will be me on the first bulldozer turning ground on the new Terminal One when that happens, as it is SO overdue, but nothing happens quickly in this city. If there is ANYTHING I would say is needed ASAP, and needs to go to the head of the line in priority, it's the new T1. Best part, though: it won't impact operations in the meantime: build, replace, tear-down, build replace, tear-down, and so on.

Am I the only one who hopes that Terminal 2 East is replaced as well? To me, that's the worst location in the airport!
 
AAtakeMeAway
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jun 09, 2019 6:06 pm

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
Am I the only one who hopes that Terminal 2 East is replaced as well? To me, that's the worst location in the airport!


No, I'm also with you on this. I know AA has been at those gates forever, but they are some of the worst gates not only at SAN, but in AA's system IMO.
 
blacksoviet
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jun 09, 2019 6:26 pm

AAtakeMeAway wrote:
PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
Am I the only one who hopes that Terminal 2 East is replaced as well? To me, that's the worst location in the airport!


No, I'm also with you on this. I know AA has been at those gates forever, but they are some of the worst gates not only at SAN, but in AA's system IMO.

What is so bad about those gates? I know that concourse has been expanded at least three times.
 
blacksoviet
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jun 09, 2019 8:46 pm

Why does AA sometimes fly 757s to PHX? Wouldn't it make more sense to operate a A321 or a A320 and save the 757s for where their performance and range is a must?
 
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itripreport
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:24 am

blacksoviet wrote:
Why does AA sometimes fly 757s to PHX? Wouldn't it make more sense to operate a A321 or a A320 and save the 757s for where their performance and range is a must?


From my limited knowledge, I believe is because these 757s arrive from Hawaii in the early morning, and their next turn isn't till around midday, so they have a few hours of ground time. And if they can fill them, then might as well do a quick 3 hour turn to San Diego, instead of leaving them idle to lose money.

blacksoviet wrote:
AAtakeMeAway wrote:
PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
Am I the only one who hopes that Terminal 2 East is replaced as well? To me, that's the worst location in the airport!


No, I'm also with you on this. I know AA has been at those gates forever, but they are some of the worst gates not only at SAN, but in AA's system IMO.

What is so bad about those gates? I know that concourse has been expanded at least three times.


Well that's because you haven't experienced when both gates 29 and 31 (the two gates side to side) are both boarding at the same time, which can lead to total caos. (Bonus points when its two delayed DFW flights, which was a nightmare both for gate agents and pax). Same with gates 32 and 30, although it's not as bad. Also, during peak hours, seating can be limited towards the end of the concourse, and now with Alaska at the terminal, the gate 20, 21, and 22 area is also crowded during peak hours.
 
AAtakeMeAway
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:16 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
AAtakeMeAway wrote:
PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
Am I the only one who hopes that Terminal 2 East is replaced as well? To me, that's the worst location in the airport!


No, I'm also with you on this. I know AA has been at those gates forever, but they are some of the worst gates not only at SAN, but in AA's system IMO.

What is so bad about those gates? I know that concourse has been expanded at least three times.


I would say that it boils down to very limited seating... chaos generally ensues from there.
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
Topic Author
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:46 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
AAtakeMeAway wrote:
PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
Am I the only one who hopes that Terminal 2 East is replaced as well? To me, that's the worst location in the airport!


No, I'm also with you on this. I know AA has been at those gates forever, but they are some of the worst gates not only at SAN, but in AA's system IMO.

What is so bad about those gates? I know that concourse has been expanded at least three times.


They may have "expanded" the building by finding more places for airplanes to park, but there have been NO upgrades in the facility, nor can there really be.

Problems with Terminal 2 East include but are not limited to: a) an atrocious lack of windows (it's a claustrophobe's worst nightmare!), b) "prison-chic" isn't a great paint color for a building with low ceilings - or really, ever for that matter, c) lack of sufficient seating at ANY of the gates in this area, d) multiple gates that utilize overlapping seats (meaning a LOT of people have to stand when two planes are using these gates) e) narrow hallways with unnecessary criss-crossing traffic flow problems, and f) there is no possible way to expand this terminal area in size or amenities (the footprint of this building on the tarmac won't allow it, and any attempts would close at least half of the gates and clog traffic on the ground).

T1 is ridiculously crowded, but the layouts at least have a logic. They are just too small for what is being asked of them. Terminal 2 East, on the other hand, feels like a temporary building put up after the rest of the airport was destroyed in an earthquake or something, and it just stuck around. It was outdated when it first opened, and it's horrific now.

What was the CVG terminal building that suffered from a similar lack of windows?

Anything that isn't up the window space and feel of Terminal 2 West is garbage and needs to go. Terminal 2 East is not representative of the new "San Diego Airport Experience", and should be retired when the modernization gets to it.
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jun 10, 2019 5:25 pm

To the best of my knowledge, T2E IS to be replaced as part of the terminal rebuild/upgrade project. That was the option that was accepted at one time. Of course things keep getting delayed and altered so I'm not 100% certain as to the scope or timing of any of it now. We have to get T1 taken care of first and that doesn't appear to be an easy job, then I believe T2E will be next. I'm not holding my breath as to when any of this is going to actually happen...

Yeah, the lack of windows always bothered me big-time at T2E; it was undoubtedly significantly cheaper to just stack blocks without the complication of having to stick windows in.
There was probably also an element of 'get the people in and out and on their way by making the building as institutional as possible -- no windows, no seating, no concessions."

As with most of the "new" airport building, once it was decided back in the '60s to move the terminals to the south side of the airport, and up to the time that T2W was constructed, the key was "cheap" with no frills. It's as though T1 and then T2 (as it was called back in the day and is now known as T2E) everything seemed to resemble 'temporary'. And hey, that may have been partly because nobody actually expected the San Diego airport to remain at Lindbergh Field terribly long in the old days -- all eyes and minds were looking elsewhere for the place to build a REAL airport!

And here we are.

bb
 
AAtakeMeAway
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:30 pm

SANFan wrote:
It's as though T1 and then T2 (as it was called back in the day and is now known as T2E) everything seemed to resemble 'temporary'. And hey, that may have been partly because nobody actually expected the San Diego airport to remain at Lindbergh Field terribly long in the old days -- all eyes and minds were looking elsewhere for the place to build a REAL airport!

And here we are.

bb


When did East Terminal and West Terminal become T1 and T2 respectively, does anyone know?
 
blacksoviet
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:04 pm

In 1980, the T2E concourse was much narrower than it is now. Most of the passengers waited in the headhouse until boarding was announced and then proceeded to the gate. I think the West Terminal became Terminal 2 sometime after it was expanded. Maybe in 1999.
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