futuresdpdcop
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 08, 2019 4:35 pm

Anyone know the reason Gate 2 is closed? I’ve noticed baggage carts and tugs parked over the empty space. Been like that since I parked at gate 1 on 6/23 and also 7/7.
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:18 pm

futuresdpdcop wrote:
Anyone know the reason Gate 2 is closed? I’ve noticed baggage carts and tugs parked over the empty space. Been like that since I parked at gate 1 on 6/23 and also 7/7.

Is the jetway still there, at gate 2? Maybe that has to be replaced.

WN has been using 2-3 gates in T1W for a few months now so maybe they've closed gate 2 (temporarily?) for some rehab work -- maybe the jetway? -- or something else. Also this summer has seen a cut in WN flights due to the MAX grounding so perhaps they ended up with an extended period to do required or desired work.

Perhaps someone in the know will chime in if none of what I said is correct.

bb
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:47 pm

SANFan wrote:
futuresdpdcop wrote:
Anyone know the reason Gate 2 is closed? I’ve noticed baggage carts and tugs parked over the empty space. Been like that since I parked at gate 1 on 6/23 and also 7/7.

Is the jetway still there, at gate 2? Maybe that has to be replaced.

WN has been using 2-3 gates in T1W for a few months now so maybe they've closed gate 2 (temporarily?) for some rehab work -- maybe the jetway? -- or something else. Also this summer has seen a cut in WN flights due to the MAX grounding so perhaps they ended up with an extended period to do required or desired work.

Perhaps someone in the know will chime in if none of what I said is correct.

bb


Using flightaware and its listing of the gates of departures, these are Southwest's departures for Monday morning, July 8, 2019:

0631 WN 1370 ABQ Gate 4
0633 WN 2392 MDW Gate 8
0644 WN 1323 MCI Gate 9
0645 WN 469 SMF Gate 11
0651 WN 806 LAS Gate 7
0653 WN 1402 SFO Gate 22
0659 WN 2232 PHX Gate 1
0701 WN 1847 AUS Gate 6
0702 WN 379 SJC Gate 3
0704 WN 1330 OAK Gate 1A
0716 WN 3781 DAL Gate 5
0724 WN 3936 OAK Gate 4 Our First Re-used gate

I scanned a few Southwest departures after this repeat, but not a single use of Gate 2 appears.

I would be shocked if this were permanent, but anything is possible.
 
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Coronado990
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:06 pm

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
SANFan wrote:
futuresdpdcop wrote:
Anyone know the reason Gate 2 is closed? I’ve noticed baggage carts and tugs parked over the empty space. Been like that since I parked at gate 1 on 6/23 and also 7/7.

Is the jetway still there, at gate 2? Maybe that has to be replaced.

WN has been using 2-3 gates in T1W for a few months now so maybe they've closed gate 2 (temporarily?) for some rehab work -- maybe the jetway? -- or something else. Also this summer has seen a cut in WN flights due to the MAX grounding so perhaps they ended up with an extended period to do required or desired work.

Perhaps someone in the know will chime in if none of what I said is correct.

bb


Using flightaware and its listing of the gates of departures, these are Southwest's departures for Monday morning, July 8, 2019:

0631 WN 1370 ABQ Gate 4
0633 WN 2392 MDW Gate 8
0644 WN 1323 MCI Gate 9
0645 WN 469 SMF Gate 11
0651 WN 806 LAS Gate 7
0653 WN 1402 SFO Gate 22
0659 WN 2232 PHX Gate 1
0701 WN 1847 AUS Gate 6
0702 WN 379 SJC Gate 3
0704 WN 1330 OAK Gate 1A
0716 WN 3781 DAL Gate 5
0724 WN 3936 OAK Gate 4 Our First Re-used gate

I scanned a few Southwest departures after this repeat, but not a single use of Gate 2 appears.

I would be shocked if this were permanent, but anything is possible.


Are you sure the SFO flight is from gate 22?
We're up.
 
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hawaiian717
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:29 pm

Coronado990 wrote:
PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
0631 WN 1370 ABQ Gate 4
0633 WN 2392 MDW Gate 8
0644 WN 1323 MCI Gate 9
0645 WN 469 SMF Gate 11
0651 WN 806 LAS Gate 7
0653 WN 1402 SFO Gate 22
0659 WN 2232 PHX Gate 1
0701 WN 1847 AUS Gate 6
0702 WN 379 SJC Gate 3
0704 WN 1330 OAK Gate 1A
0716 WN 3781 DAL Gate 5
0724 WN 3936 OAK Gate 4 Our First Re-used gate


Are you sure the SFO flight is from gate 22?


Southwest.com's flight status page shows it left from gate 10.
 
Silver1SWA
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:52 pm

futuresdpdcop wrote:
Anyone know the reason Gate 2 is closed? I’ve noticed baggage carts and tugs parked over the empty space. Been like that since I parked at gate 1 on 6/23 and also 7/7.


They’re expanding their Tpoint (bag room) belt and the only place to go is into gate 2 territory. The plans kept evolving but last I heard before leaving in January was that gate 2 would be permanently closed.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:53 pm

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/SWA1402

This is the page where I got the information. I have never in my life heard of a Southwest Airlines flight "operating as Alaska Airlines flight XXXX", so I can't vouch for its accuracy or what it is saying.
 
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hawaiian717
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:10 pm

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/SWA1402

This is the page where I got the information. I have never in my life heard of a Southwest Airlines flight "operating as Alaska Airlines flight XXXX", so I can't vouch for its accuracy or what it is saying.


Looks like another data error at FlightAware. Both WN1402 and AS1951 are identically scheduled to depart SAN at 0630 and arrive SFO at 0810. AS1951 did use gate 22 this morning.
 
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:05 pm

hawaiian717 wrote:
PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/SWA1402

This is the page where I got the information. I have never in my life heard of a Southwest Airlines flight "operating as Alaska Airlines flight XXXX", so I can't vouch for its accuracy or what it is saying.


Looks like another data error at FlightAware. Both WN1402 and AS1951 are identically scheduled to depart SAN at 0630 and arrive SFO at 0810. AS1951 did use gate 22 this morning.


Agreed. For anyone - including FlightAware - to associate Southwest with another carrier is against what we all learned in Airline 101: Basic Concepts in our years at airplane school: Southwest functions entirely independently of any other airline, period.

This would also explain the Gate 10 absence in the list.

Our last Southwest flight on Monday, May 27th, from MDW to SAN suffered also from an anomoly: our originally scheduled plane was late coming in from Detroit, so another plane was substituted. Interestingly, as we were #41 and 42 in the line (which as next to the #1 spot in the boarding area), we got to chat a bit with our gate agent. She was also monitoring FlightAware, and mentioned that we would be on a substitution. I got the replacement registration (as opposed to what FlightAware believed to be happening), but FlightAware never did. First time in my flying database history my physical observations overrode the computer database.
 
futuresdpdcop
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:37 pm

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
hawaiian717 wrote:
PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/SWA1402

This is the page where I got the information. I have never in my life heard of a Southwest Airlines flight "operating as Alaska Airlines flight XXXX", so I can't vouch for its accuracy or what it is saying.


Looks like another data error at FlightAware. Both WN1402 and AS1951 are identically scheduled to depart SAN at 0630 and arrive SFO at 0810. AS1951 did use gate 22 this morning.


Agreed. For anyone - including FlightAware - to associate Southwest with another carrier is against what we all learned in Airline 101: Basic Concepts in our years at airplane school: Southwest functions entirely independently of any other airline, period.

This would also explain the Gate 10 absence in the list.

Our last Southwest flight on Monday, May 27th, from MDW to SAN suffered also from an anomoly: our originally scheduled plane was late coming in from Detroit, so another plane was substituted. Interestingly, as we were #41 and 42 in the line (which as next to the #1 spot in the boarding area), we got to chat a bit with our gate agent. She was also monitoring FlightAware, and mentioned that we would be on a substitution. I got the replacement registration (as opposed to what FlightAware believed to be happening), but FlightAware never did. First time in my flying database history my physical observations overrode the computer database.


New Mexico One came in Sunday night as 5589 from SFO and went into gate 10. I know that cause it landed right before my flight from OAK
 
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:24 am

I don't know why I didn't think of this before, but my last flight SAN-MDW departed from Gate 2 on Friday, May 24th. I couldn't remember for sure, but the more I investigate, the more I recall of that early morning, and there were three flights leaving from the east end gates. That would mean Gate 2 is most probably being replaced.
 
ajlombardi2
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:40 am

Pence is scheduled fly into the San Diego International Airport aboard Air Force Two. He will arrive Wednesday and attend a fundraiser Thursday.

Anyone know how to figure out his arrival time to watch AF2 land?

https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/ ... 97792.html
 
ajlombardi2
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:52 pm

ajlombardi2 wrote:
Pence is scheduled fly into the San Diego International Airport aboard Air Force Two. He will arrive Wednesday and attend a fundraiser Thursday.

Anyone know how to figure out his arrival time to watch AF2 land?

https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/ ... 97792.html



news says he's visiting nor cal and Vandenberg today, prior to coming to SD... so i am guessing it will be in the late afternoon / evening.
 
JAAlbert
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 10, 2019 6:25 pm

What type of aircraft is used for AF-2?
 
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:45 pm

JAAlbert wrote:
What type of aircraft is used for AF-2?


c-32 (B757) https://www.af.mil/About-Us/Fact-Sheets ... 4518/c-32/
 
SANMAN66
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:09 pm

Vice President Pence landed at SAN last night. I thought he would land at NAS North Island or MCAS Miramar, just like the President normally does on AF-1. They showed the Vice President on the local news disembarking AF-2 last night with a Southwest plane parked behind it.
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PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:33 pm

It is in eniliria's most recent OAG updates post that AA's cancellation of SAN-JFK is official. I believe this marks the end of continuous service on AA between the two cities.

I'd love to know what AA's yields were like, as the airline was never keen on connections at JFK, preferring to route passengers via other hubs, leaving this route (and others) for O&D passengers. This being in direct competition with DL and B6 at JFK and UA at EWR, plus the seasonal and/or non-connecting pax on AS and WN.

Since it has been around so long continuously, I would guess this strategy was working for them; however, the MAX grounding has hit AA hard.
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 15, 2019 4:10 am

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
It is in eniliria's most recent OAG updates post that AA's cancellation of SAN-JFK is official. I believe this marks the end of continuous service on AA between the two cities.

I'd love to know what AA's yields were like, as the airline was never keen on connections at JFK, preferring to route passengers via other hubs, leaving this route (and others) for O&D passengers. This being in direct competition with DL and B6 at JFK and UA at EWR, plus the seasonal and/or non-connecting pax on AS and WN.

Since it has been around so long continuously, I would guess this strategy was working for them; however, the MAX grounding has hit AA hard.

Hold on there a minute pardner. I don't know that SAN-JFK is cancelled permanently; the MAX grounding, per AA, is extended now up THRU November plus someone on that thread mentioned that the runway work at JFK is scheduled to go thru October. (Today's edition of the OAG thread shows AA JFK-SAN cancelled now for Sept & Oct.)

I now that some keep saying how horrible the numbers are for JFK-SAN/SEA but I for one am not totally ready to give up on AA's very long-lived SAN-JFK route quite yet. (BTW, you should be able to find yields and other pertinent data on all the SAN-JFK flights on the B6 Network thread in posts by tphuang

Incidentally, it should be mentioned here that JetBlue has already added a third SAN-JFK flight for Sept/Oct, allegedly to fill the gap left by AA NOT flying the route in those months...

In any case, fingers crossed that once all these issues are over, AA will remain in the SAN-JFK market!

bb.
 
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:00 pm

I understand that the MAX grounding has left airlines scrambling; however, SAN-JFK on AA has been a continuous presence for a very long time, yes? To have it "pulled" - even temporarily - means that the bean counters at AA are saying, "we will make more money elsewhere".

Also, given that AA is relying almost solely on O&D for this flight (while B6, DL, and UA at EWR will offer a LOT more connections), it sounds as though this flight has fallen into the gray area of "profitable when planes are plentiful but not profitable enough in this time of halted expansion", and the plane normally used is being moved to a different route.

Now, when the MAX is back in the skies, I have no doubt that AA will return to SAN-JFK. Given its long history and obviously very loyal customers flying this route constantly, it has to have proven itself profitable. But the fact that it has been cut at all saddens me, as this route had survived through thick and thin.
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:08 am

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
I understand that the MAX grounding has left airlines scrambling; however, SAN-JFK on AA has been a continuous presence for a very long time, yes? To have it "pulled" - even temporarily - means that the bean counters at AA are saying, "we will make more money elsewhere".

Also, given that AA is relying almost solely on O&D for this flight (while B6, DL, and UA at EWR will offer a LOT more connections), it sounds as though this flight has fallen into the gray area of "profitable when planes are plentiful but not profitable enough in this time of halted expansion", and the plane normally used is being moved to a different route.

Now, when the MAX is back in the skies, I have no doubt that AA will return to SAN-JFK. Given its long history and obviously very loyal customers flying this route constantly, it has to have proven itself profitable. But the fact that it has been cut at all saddens me, as this route had survived through thick and thin.


AA's nonstop SAN-JFK began right around 1967 and has run pretty much continuously -- I don't remember any lapses but there may have been one -- for 52 years! Of course for a lot of that time period, AA offered the only nonstop service. But I realize that history means nothing today so if the numbers are bad, the route will be axed.

In any case, I pretty much do agree with you, PSA'. And I too would very much hate to see the route on AA disappear...

bb
 
LeftcoastB6
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:17 pm

First post here, SD native on the younger side learning the ropes. I lived in PHX for year and tried to keep on top of the happenings at SAN. Are there ANY signs of life/progress with the T1 renovation?? All I’ve seen in the news lately is a tram/trolley/people mover connection to downtown etc. Thanks for any insight!
 
amadorE175
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:10 am

LeftcoastB6 wrote:
First post here, SD native on the younger side learning the ropes. I lived in PHX for year and tried to keep on top of the happenings at SAN. Are there ANY signs of life/progress with the T1 renovation?? All I’ve seen in the news lately is a tram/trolley/people mover connection to downtown etc. Thanks for any insight!


The transit stuff is a big part of moving the T1 replacement forward since the biggest objections to the proposed plan was that it was 1) lacking in transit and 2) too focused on parking. The Board had to revisit the transit issue and the Authority is reworking the T1 proposal to include the newly negotiated transit elements. It looks like the process has delayed the replacement by about a year as a new plan and new docs get prepared.
 
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 17, 2019 1:23 am

amadorE175 wrote:
LeftcoastB6 wrote:
First post here, SD native on the younger side learning the ropes. I lived in PHX for year and tried to keep on top of the happenings at SAN. Are there ANY signs of life/progress with the T1 renovation?? All I’ve seen in the news lately is a tram/trolley/people mover connection to downtown etc. Thanks for any insight!


The transit stuff is a big part of moving the T1 replacement forward since the biggest objections to the proposed plan was that it was 1) lacking in transit and 2) too focused on parking. The Board had to revisit the transit issue and the Authority is reworking the T1 proposal to include the newly negotiated transit elements. It looks like the process has delayed the replacement by about a year as a new plan and new docs get prepared.


Agreed, 100% - exactly what I was getting ready to say!

We all hate the delay; however, the public transit absolutely had to be done. It is utterly ludicrous to me that rail lines are literally right across the street from the airport, and for a second time, a decision was made to ignore it and focus solely on autos. At least this time public outcry forced the board to do the right thing and get people out of cars earlier than the front curb.

Discussion has been going on recently about the replacement of gates throughout SAN, with the last phase in T1East occurring in late spring/early summer 2019. That they were able to consistently remove one gate from operations for several days - and for several weeks, as when one was replaced, another went off line - means that the airport isn't at 100% capacity. Airlines adjusted accordingly, so despite its shortcomings in terms of comfort, mobility, and space, it will be able to handle current traffic loads until it is time for replacement.
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:22 am

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
Discussion has been going on recently about the replacement of gates throughout SAN, with the last phase in T1East occurring in late spring/early summer 2019. That they were able to consistently remove one gate from operations for several days - and for several weeks, as when one was replaced, another went off line - means that the airport isn't at 100% capacity. Airlines adjusted accordingly, so despite its shortcomings in terms of comfort, mobility, and space, it will be able to handle current traffic loads until it is time for replacement.

Sorry but I don't know exactly what you mean by "replacement of gates throughout SAN"? Are you referring to the jetway replacement program?

No, SAN is not near 100% capacity; management has done a good job (IMO) of keeping ahead of needed capacity here. As airline growth ebbs and flows, relocations of cx between terminals has been necessary but otherwise, there's room for expansion currently - for either new cx to move into SAN or growth by current cx.

No question that the replacement of T1 is very much needed -- WN does need more room -- and the current T1 is tight on space and outdated. WN may get constrained for a while until the new T1 is ready to occupy.

bb
 
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Jul 17, 2019 1:43 pm

SANFan wrote:
PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
Discussion has been going on recently about the replacement of gates throughout SAN, with the last phase in T1East occurring in late spring/early summer 2019. That they were able to consistently remove one gate from operations for several days - and for several weeks, as when one was replaced, another went off line - means that the airport isn't at 100% capacity. Airlines adjusted accordingly, so despite its shortcomings in terms of comfort, mobility, and space, it will be able to handle current traffic loads until it is time for replacement.

Sorry but I don't know exactly what you mean by "replacement of gates throughout SAN"? Are you referring to the jetway replacement program?

No, SAN is not near 100% capacity; management has done a good job (IMO) of keeping ahead of needed capacity here. As airline growth ebbs and flows, relocations of cx between terminals has been necessary but otherwise, there's room for expansion currently - for either new cx to move into SAN or growth by current cx.

No question that the replacement of T1 is very much needed -- WN does need more room -- and the current T1 is tight on space and outdated. WN may get constrained for a while until the new T1 is ready to occupy.

bb


Actually, you do know exactly what I meant - the jetway replacement program. While each jetway was being replaced, that gate was not in service. My wording wasn't good, but you figured it out... :D
 
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:39 am

I just noticed on RoutesOnline some disappointing news from HA. Here's the article:

Hawaiian Airlines Honolulu – San Diego aircraft changes from Jan 2020
By Jim Liu
Posted 17 July 2019 09:00

Hawaiian Airlines from January 2020 is adjusting operational aircraft for Honolulu – San Diego route, currently operated by Airbus A330-200 aircraft. From 08JAN20, this route will be operated by Airbus A321neo aircraft on daily basis.

HA016 HNL1410 – 2135SAN 321 D
HA015 SAN0915 – 1335HNL 321 D

Hmm. Falling pax numbers on HA lately? Some sort of fleet re-alignment (wide body needed on some new long-haul int'l route)? Are they expecting further competition on SAN-HNL early next year (from WN) and are pre-emptively reducing their capacity? (I certainly hope that's not what HA is doing.)

If HA were adding a 2nd r/t on a 321, that would have told a much more optimistic story. Or if additional service to KOA/LIH were announced, this downgrade would be a bit more understandable. But this axing of the only wide-body service to the Islands is sad to me. I will be watching to see if/what HA might do further in 2020 to change their op's in SAN... I have not yet looked for other similar announcements from other mainland cities so I don't know if this is just affecting SAN or if there are other adjustments coming...

What do you think?

bb
 
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LindyFlight
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jul 18, 2019 3:03 am

SANFan wrote:
I just noticed on RoutesOnline some disappointing news from HA. Here's the article:

Hawaiian Airlines Honolulu – San Diego aircraft changes from Jan 2020
By Jim Liu
Posted 17 July 2019 09:00

Hawaiian Airlines from January 2020 is adjusting operational aircraft for Honolulu – San Diego route, currently operated by Airbus A330-200 aircraft. From 08JAN20, this route will be operated by Airbus A321neo aircraft on daily basis.

HA016 HNL1410 – 2135SAN 321 D
HA015 SAN0915 – 1335HNL 321 D

Hmm. Falling pax numbers on HA lately? Some sort of fleet re-alignment (wide body needed on some new long-haul int'l route)? Are they expecting further competition on SAN-HNL early next year (from WN) and are pre-emptively reducing their capacity? (I certainly hope that's not what HA is doing.)

If HA were adding a 2nd r/t on a 321, that would have told a much more optimistic story. Or if additional service to KOA/LIH were announced, this downgrade would be a bit more understandable. But this axing of the only wide-body service to the Islands is sad to me. I will be watching to see if/what HA might do further in 2020 to change their op's in SAN... I have not yet looked for other similar announcements from other mainland cities so I don't know if this is just affecting SAN or if there are other adjustments coming...

What do you think?

bb

I believe its more about re-alignment, loads for HNL have been consistently around the mid-80s to high-90s with the A330s. I heard they would like to move A330s to more long-haul operations and west coast airports to expand out of (LAX, SFO, and SEA). With A321neo orders that go into 2020, I bet they would want to place them on thinner routes like SAN that have 1 daily flight to HNL and possibly expanding to maybe 2x daily (just a guess :) ).
 
SANMAN66
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jul 18, 2019 4:28 am

It makes sense that HA may be re-aligning the HNL flights and replacing the A330 with A321s to better compete with AS and possibly WN on the West Coast- Hawaii routes. Most likely the A330s will be shifted to the HNL-Asia routes. In other news about the other int'l airport to the South, AM is cutting the MEX-TIJ-PVG route because they want to use the 787 on another MEX route for daily flights.
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jul 18, 2019 4:53 am

My United Airlines flight attendant neighbor just told me that United is opening a flight attendant base here at SAN! "I'm one of the lucky 125!" were her exact words.

Has anyone else heard anything about this? And which airlines have a flight attendant base here?
 
panamair
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:10 am

SANFan wrote:
Hold on there a minute pardner. I don't know that SAN-JFK is cancelled permanently; the MAX grounding, per AA, is extended now up THRU November plus someone on that thread mentioned that the runway work at JFK is scheduled to go thru October. (Today's edition of the OAG thread shows AA JFK-SAN cancelled now for Sept & Oct.)


So far, 2x daily JFK-SAN is scheduled to return starting from Nov 3, obviously subject to change. However as mentioned they are one of the worst performers in this market revenue and yield wise (though it performs a bit better than their JFK-SEA), hence the cuts due to the MAX despite the fact that JFK-SAN has never even been operated with the MAX.
 
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:20 am

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
My United Airlines flight attendant neighbor just told me that United is opening a flight attendant base here at SAN! "I'm one of the lucky 125!" were her exact words.

Has anyone else heard anything about this? And which airlines have a flight attendant base here?


Yes, UA is opening a small “satellite” FA base in SAN. Delta has had such a SAN FA base for more than a decade now. Basically it allows FAs to do “turn trips” so it saves on hotel costs and also allows FAs “quality of life” as they can come home every evening. There is no base management (at DL I believe the SAN base reports into LAX) and base members are expected to find their own replacements etc when they can’t fly, so they have to have a good performance record (especially regarding absenteeism) before being allowed into the base. At DL they mostly fly SAN-ATL and SAN-DTW turns (out in the morning and back in the evening). Recently DL also allowed them to fly SAN-JFK turns but dropped those at least through October or November due to potential runway construction delays at JFK which might cause crew duty legality issues.
Bases like these tend to have very senior FAs and the DL SAN one also has some of the nicest FAs systemwide.
 
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jul 18, 2019 3:14 pm

panamair wrote:
PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
My United Airlines flight attendant neighbor just told me that United is opening a flight attendant base here at SAN! "I'm one of the lucky 125!" were her exact words.

Has anyone else heard anything about this? And which airlines have a flight attendant base here?


Yes, UA is opening a small “satellite” FA base in SAN. Delta has had such a SAN FA base for more than a decade now. Basically it allows FAs to do “turn trips” so it saves on hotel costs and also allows FAs “quality of life” as they can come home every evening. There is no base management (at DL I believe the SAN base reports into LAX) and base members are expected to find their own replacements etc when they can’t fly, so they have to have a good performance record (especially regarding absenteeism) before being allowed into the base. At DL they mostly fly SAN-ATL and SAN-DTW turns (out in the morning and back in the evening). Recently DL also allowed them to fly SAN-JFK turns but dropped those at least through October or November due to potential runway construction delays at JFK which might cause crew duty legality issues.
Bases like these tend to have very senior FAs and the DL SAN one also has some of the nicest FAs systemwide.

Interesting and news to me; I had no idea about DL here. I know that OO and AS have FA bases in SAN but I thought that was it. Since all four cx have decent sized ops here it's not a surprise that it's economically feasible to have at least a small number of cabin crew based in San Diego.

I remember when AA had a cockpit-crew base in SAN (and FAs also?) I learned that it was a very senior (and popular) base with AA! I can understand that. If it weren't for the high cost of living in this area, there might be an even larger presence of airline crews here?

Thanks for the insight Panam'.

bb
 
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Coronado990
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jul 19, 2019 7:12 pm

I saw on the F9 PHX-FAR thread that F9 will start SAN-PHX service as well. Anybody have any details on schedules and effective dates?
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PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jul 19, 2019 7:23 pm

Coronado990 wrote:
I saw on the F9 PHX-FAR thread that F9 will start SAN-PHX service as well. Anybody have any details on schedules and effective dates?


Given that WN and AA already have very loyal followings AND can offer onward connections from PHX, I don't get how F9 is going to make any money on this route at all; however, if the bean counters have done their homework and have concluded that there is profit to be made, then best of luck.
 
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:15 pm

Coronado990 wrote:
I saw on the F9 PHX-FAR thread that F9 will start SAN-PHX service as well. Anybody have any details on schedules and effective dates?


-SAN-PHX: 11:03am-1:30pm
-PHX-SAN: 9:55am-10:12am
-Daily, year-round, A320
-starts Nov 14
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jul 20, 2019 8:40 am

Good catch and thanks to all in the last 3 posts for details and thoughts on another new route unveiled!

F9 starting SAN-PHX is no more surprising to me than their recent foray into LAS, another route already well-served. I think there will be plenty of traffic for a third carrier to PHX but perhaps more importantly, I would guess this is another potential route that AS has let get away. There has been talk in the last few months about the possibility of AS entering both SAN-Vegas and SAN-PHX and it looks like F9 beat them to it in both cases. One flight a day on F9 is not a huge presence but hey, it's more than they usually offer out of SAN. And permanent, although we'll see if that holds up or not.

F9 is by far the fastest growing carrier in the new lineup of players in T1W -- they've added summer daily service to MCO (undoubtedly due to WN dropping the route for the summer -- and I hope no more than as long as the MAXs are grounded), they've added LAS and now PHX! (Anything eIse?) Good for them. I also think they "stole" SAN-RDU from someone else as this route definitely needed service; whether it was from AS, DL or WN I don't know but F9 seems to be doing pretty well in the market.

bb
 
757SanCam
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Jul 20, 2019 3:24 pm

The Airport Authority revised it's report when our single runway will reach capacity. The report which came out Friday, says it will be sooner than the predicted 2050 and offers some solutions such as using only larger aircraft (no regional aircraft) and/or FAA mandated slot restrictions. Here's the article from the U/T. http://enewspaper.sandiegouniontribune. ... 3eb2d50487
 
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:58 pm

757SanCam wrote:
The Airport Authority revised it's report when our single runway will reach capacity. The report which came out Friday, says it will be sooner than the predicted 2050 and offers some solutions such as using only larger aircraft (no regional aircraft) and/or FAA mandated slot restrictions. Here's the article from the U/T. http://enewspaper.sandiegouniontribune. ... 3eb2d50487


Okay, I know I'm not an expert, but in my years in San Diego, every amount of doom-and-gloom about how our airport will be maxing-out any day now. And yet, somehow, day after day, SAN mostly operates on time. Yes, any airport can have a maximum capacity, and some airports are very close to that (LAX comes to mind), but I have my doubts as to some of the conclusions.

All of the following is theoretical and just basic math. I know there are other considerations (like scheduling departures between 11 and 11:30 PM), but this is my line of thinking.

For example: the airport is open for take-offs from 6:30 AM to 11:30 AM, a total 17 hours per day. One operation per minute = 60 operations per hour, meaning 1,020 operations per day. I am randomly choosing an average of 150 seats per operation for this, which would mean 153,000 passengers per day (excluding cargo, although they would be subject to the slot system as well). That accounts to 55,845,000 passengers per year.

There were 306 operations yesterday. That is very nearly exactly 1/3rd of maximum operations. If we are at +/- 25,000,000 per year currently, that would be a maximum of 75,000,000, not 55,000,000.

Thoughts?
 
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Coronado990
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Jul 21, 2019 6:17 pm

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
757SanCam wrote:
There were 306 operations yesterday. That is very nearly exactly 1/3rd of maximum operations. If we are at +/- 25,000,000 per year currently, that would be a maximum of 75,000,000, not 55,000,000.

Thoughts?


There might of been 306 arrivals but that is only half of it. For every arrival there is a departure so it would be 612 operations for that day.
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PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 22, 2019 5:37 pm

Coronado990 wrote:
PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
757SanCam wrote:
There were 306 operations yesterday. That is very nearly exactly 1/3rd of maximum operations. If we are at +/- 25,000,000 per year currently, that would be a maximum of 75,000,000, not 55,000,000.

Thoughts?


There might of been 306 arrivals but that is only half of it. For every arrival there is a departure so it would be 612 operations for that day.


And had my coffee kicked in properly, I would have realized that. Thanks for catching that!!
 
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DL717
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 22, 2019 6:57 pm

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
757SanCam wrote:
The Airport Authority revised it's report when our single runway will reach capacity. The report which came out Friday, says it will be sooner than the predicted 2050 and offers some solutions such as using only larger aircraft (no regional aircraft) and/or FAA mandated slot restrictions. Here's the article from the U/T. http://enewspaper.sandiegouniontribune. ... 3eb2d50487


Okay, I know I'm not an expert, but in my years in San Diego, every amount of doom-and-gloom about how our airport will be maxing-out any day now. And yet, somehow, day after day, SAN mostly operates on time. Yes, any airport can have a maximum capacity, and some airports are very close to that (LAX comes to mind), but I have my doubts as to some of the conclusions.

All of the following is theoretical and just basic math. I know there are other considerations (like scheduling departures between 11 and 11:30 PM), but this is my line of thinking.

For example: the airport is open for take-offs from 6:30 AM to 11:30 AM, a total 17 hours per day. One operation per minute = 60 operations per hour, meaning 1,020 operations per day. I am randomly choosing an average of 150 seats per operation for this, which would mean 153,000 passengers per day (excluding cargo, although they would be subject to the slot system as well). That accounts to 55,845,000 passengers per year.

There were 306 operations yesterday. That is very nearly exactly 1/3rd of maximum operations. If we are at +/- 25,000,000 per year currently, that would be a maximum of 75,000,000, not 55,000,000.

Thoughts?


Yeah, you'll never see a rate of 60 ops per hour, more like 48-50 on your best day. Plus you have to consider there are times during the day where it makes zero sense to schedule a flight from a west coast city due to the arrival time on the east coast. This jams your peak periods and results in off peak periods that are never utilized regardless how congested the airport becomes. Its not an east coast airport that has the advantage of time during the day, plus the adverse impact of the curfew. Additionally, if they follow the pattern of other slotted airports, the seat capacity per departure tends to be lower due to the cost of delay. Better to have a 100 seat plane take an traffic related cancellation hit than a 200 seat plane
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PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:19 am

DL717 wrote:
PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
757SanCam wrote:
The Airport Authority revised it's report when our single runway will reach capacity. The report which came out Friday, says it will be sooner than the predicted 2050 and offers some solutions such as using only larger aircraft (no regional aircraft) and/or FAA mandated slot restrictions. Here's the article from the U/T. http://enewspaper.sandiegouniontribune. ... 3eb2d50487


Okay, I know I'm not an expert, but in my years in San Diego, every amount of doom-and-gloom about how our airport will be maxing-out any day now. And yet, somehow, day after day, SAN mostly operates on time. Yes, any airport can have a maximum capacity, and some airports are very close to that (LAX comes to mind), but I have my doubts as to some of the conclusions.

All of the following is theoretical and just basic math. I know there are other considerations (like scheduling departures between 11 and 11:30 PM), but this is my line of thinking.

For example: the airport is open for take-offs from 6:30 AM to 11:30 AM, a total 17 hours per day. One operation per minute = 60 operations per hour, meaning 1,020 operations per day. I am randomly choosing an average of 150 seats per operation for this, which would mean 153,000 passengers per day (excluding cargo, although they would be subject to the slot system as well). That accounts to 55,845,000 passengers per year.

There were 306 operations yesterday. That is very nearly exactly 1/3rd of maximum operations. If we are at +/- 25,000,000 per year currently, that would be a maximum of 75,000,000, not 55,000,000.

Thoughts?


Yeah, you'll never see a rate of 60 ops per hour, more like 48-50 on your best day. Plus you have to consider there are times during the day where it makes zero sense to schedule a flight from a west coast city due to the arrival time on the east coast. This jams your peak periods and results in off peak periods that are never utilized regardless how congested the airport becomes. Its not an east coast airport that has the advantage of time during the day, plus the adverse impact of the curfew. Additionally, if they follow the pattern of other slotted airports, the seat capacity per departure tends to be lower due to the cost of delay. Better to have a 100 seat plane take an traffic related cancellation hit than a 200 seat plane


Correct on every count, thank you, I only looked to the maximum theoretical possible amount. But otherwise, yeah.
 
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:23 pm

It seems that Southwest has found a way to get the Hawaii expansion back on track, explicitly mentioning SAN:

We are very pleased with the results from our initial waves of Hawaii service, which began back in March. Demand for Southwest service to, from, and within Hawaii is robust. While the lack of available aircraft, due to the MAX groundings, resulted in expansion delays to Hawaii, we are excited to resume growth plans next month with the first of several intended announcements. We will offer service to the Islands from both Sacramento and San Diego, as well as bring Southwest service to both Lihue, on Kauai, and Hilo, on the Island of Hawaii. We will provide details of the next phases of Hawaii flying in the coming weeks and months, as we put new flights out for sale.


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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:42 am

hawaiian717 wrote:
It seems that Southwest has found a way to get the Hawaii expansion back on track, explicitly mentioning SAN:

We are very pleased with the results from our initial waves of Hawaii service, which began back in March. Demand for Southwest service to, from, and within Hawaii is robust. While the lack of available aircraft, due to the MAX groundings, resulted in expansion delays to Hawaii, we are excited to resume growth plans next month with the first of several intended announcements. We will offer service to the Islands from both Sacramento and San Diego, as well as bring Southwest service to both Lihue, on Kauai, and Hilo, on the Island of Hawaii. We will provide details of the next phases of Hawaii flying in the coming weeks and months, as we put new flights out for sale.


Nice catch, Hawaiian'! So a potential announcement in August re: SAN-service would mean service beginning in... December? Early 2020? I'm guessing the service will consist of HNL & OGG, with perhaps even a couple of flights a week to LIH? Probably not all at once. (AS's skeds confirm that Kauai is a more popular market from SAN than is the Big Island and SAN-LIH might even be a larger market than the Bay Area satellite airports to Kauai.)

I'll be anxiously awaiting some good news from WN regarding SAN soon. We already know we're losing one route permanently from the carrier - EWR - due to the closure of that station by WN... Should the MAX situation ever get settled, we will hopefully see MCO resume.

bb
 
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Coronado990
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jul 26, 2019 4:10 pm

SANFan wrote:
hawaiian717 wrote:
It seems that Southwest has found a way to get the Hawaii expansion back on track, explicitly mentioning SAN:

We are very pleased with the results from our initial waves of Hawaii service, which began back in March. Demand for Southwest service to, from, and within Hawaii is robust. While the lack of available aircraft, due to the MAX groundings, resulted in expansion delays to Hawaii, we are excited to resume growth plans next month with the first of several intended announcements. We will offer service to the Islands from both Sacramento and San Diego, as well as bring Southwest service to both Lihue, on Kauai, and Hilo, on the Island of Hawaii. We will provide details of the next phases of Hawaii flying in the coming weeks and months, as we put new flights out for sale.


Nice catch, Hawaiian'! So a potential announcement in August re: SAN-service would mean service beginning in... December? Early 2020? I'm guessing the service will consist of HNL & OGG, with perhaps even a couple of flights a week to LIH? Probably not all at once. (AS's skeds confirm that Kauai is a more popular market from SAN than is the Big Island and SAN-LIH might even be a larger market than the Bay Area satellite airports to Kauai.)

I'll be anxiously awaiting some good news from WN regarding SAN soon. We already know we're losing one route permanently from the carrier - EWR - due to the closure of that station by WN... Should the MAX situation ever get settled, we will hopefully see MCO resume.

bb


Probably the Hawaii service from SAN will be funded by the EWR service being discontinued. We come out even (or better) swapping a non-stop to EWR for HNL/OGG. I bet WN will go to JFK before it goes back to Newark.
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SANMAN66
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:04 pm

I'll bet AS and HA are chewing up the furniture with the WN announcement that the SAN-Hawaii route is back on track
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 29, 2019 2:26 am

SANMAN66 wrote:
I'll bet AS and HA are chewing up the furniture with the WN announcement that the SAN-Hawaii route is back on track

However, neither carrier has taken any aggressive action to "pre-fight" WN's entry into the Hawaii market. Maybe they will once an actual sked (and start-date) are announced by WN... but I doubt it.

In fact, as mentioned up-thread, HA's "pre-reaction" has been to downgrade their equipment on SAN-HNL; both of their SAN-flights will be A321s beginning in January!

The usual WN rumor-spreader reported on another thread that SAN-HNL on WN will start on Nov 3 (along with SMF-HNL and inter-island service to LIH and ITO.) I say 50-50 chance that happens.

Coronado990 wrote:
Probably the Hawaii service from SAN will be funded by the EWR service being discontinued. We come out even (or better) swapping a non-stop to EWR for HNL/OGG.

Ironically, SAN-EWR apparently ends Nov 2...

bb
 
jplatts
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:50 am

SANFan wrote:
I'll be anxiously awaiting some good news from WN regarding SAN soon. We already know we're losing one route permanently from the carrier - EWR - due to the closure of that station by WN... Should the MAX situation ever get settled, we will hopefully see MCO resume.

bb


While WN doesn't currently serve MSP nonstop from SAN, WN could add MSP-SAN nonstop service in order to better compete against AS in the SAN market. MSP is one of the few domestic destinations outside of Hawaii served by both WN and AS that currently has nonstop service out of SAN on AS but not on WN.

WN will likely add SAN-OGG, SAN-KOA, and SAN-LIH nonstop service once WN has more planes available in its fleet.

In addition to SAN-MSP and SAN-Hawaii, there are a few other nonstop routes such as SAN-CLE, SAN-CMH, SAN-PIT, and SAN-RDU that could be added by WN out of SAN once the MAX situation gets resolved.
 
blacksoviet
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 29, 2019 5:55 pm

I would rather take a rideshare directly to the front curb of the new Terminal 1. Who wants to deal with a tram from downtown or Midway Dr? That would just be slower and more complicated.

If someone can afford the price of an airline ticket then they should be able to afford the cost of a rideshare to the airport. If not, then there is always bus 992.
 
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Coronado990
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Jul 29, 2019 6:05 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
I would rather take a rideshare directly to the front curb of the new Terminal 1. Who wants to deal with a tram from downtown or Midway Dr? That would just be slower and more complicated.

If someone can afford the price of an airline ticket then they should be able to afford the cost of a rideshare to the airport. If not, then there is always bus 992.


Until you're stuck on N. Harbor Dr. and the tram wizzes right by you. The road can only handle a finite amount of car traffic.
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