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blacksoviet
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:16 am

SANFan wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
Is the new Terminal 1 going to have fewer international gates than Terminal 2?

Yes, a lot less - 0 in fact. The FIS facilities for SDIA are now, and forever, located in their present locations, T2W. That's why they built 6 FIS-capable gates.

bb

Is 4 widebody FIS gates really enough?
 
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DL717
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Oct 11, 2019 1:14 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
SANFan wrote:
LindyFlight wrote:
Not quite. He's saying that BA will swap equipment from the 77W to the 744 on 10/27/19, and instead of switching in March of 2020 to the 77W, it will remain a 747 until further notice.

:checkmark: To put it another way, Speedbird will hopefully operate permanently as a 747 in and out of SAN beginning later this month, which is a major achievement for our 'little airport that could'! This is a huge landmark in our area's civil aviation world for those of us who've been in that world for decades -- myself since the late 1940s!

And yeah, I guess when the "Queen" is no longer in BA's fleet, she will cease to serve SAN...

bb

When the Queen is gone, could BA switch to the A380 for part of the year?


Sure, if they want to stop in Phoenix again. I don’t see them supporting the 777X either, even with folding wingtips.

They require prior permission for anything over 171’ span. This would mean even a 747/777 presents some operating issues:

http://www.airnav.com/airport/SAN
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SANMAN66
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:47 pm

blacksoviet wrote:

When the Queen is gone, could BA switch to the A380 for part of the year?


I seriously doubt it. The A380 is way too big for our airport.
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timf
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:17 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
SANFan wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
Is the new Terminal 1 going to have fewer international gates than Terminal 2?

Yes, a lot less - 0 in fact. The FIS facilities for SDIA are now, and forever, located in their present locations, T2W. That's why they built 6 FIS-capable gates.

bb

Is 4 widebody FIS gates really enough?

There's always the possibility of adding more FIS gates when they do the final pier of T2. The plans to move FIS to the new T1 were superseded by the immediate need for more FIS gates, so they revised their plans and built the new facility at T2 West instead.
 
blacksoviet
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:30 pm

timf wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
SANFan wrote:
Yes, a lot less - 0 in fact. The FIS facilities for SDIA are now, and forever, located in their present locations, T2W. That's why they built 6 FIS-capable gates.

bb

Is 4 widebody FIS gates really enough?

There's always the possibility of adding more FIS gates when they do the final pier of T2. The plans to move FIS to the new T1 were superseded by the immediate need for more FIS gates, so they revised their plans and built the new facility at T2 West instead.

The final pier of T2? Are you talking about T2E?
 
alexdelzotto1
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:48 pm

Air Transat has loaded 3 weekly 737-800 service to YUL starting June 15th, 2020

No official press release yet, how ever it's loading in their flight schedule online.

https://www.airtransat.com/en-CA/Travel ... e#/results
 
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hawaiian717
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:50 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
The final pier of T2? Are you talking about T2E?


More likely he’s referring to plans to extend T2W past gate 51. I’ve seen proposals that extend the concourse to then along McCain Rd.
 
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hawaiian717
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:55 pm

alexdelzotto1 wrote:
Air Transat has loaded 3 weekly 737-800 service to YUL starting June 15th, 2020

No official press release yet, how ever it's loading in their flight schedule online.

https://www.airtransat.com/en-CA/Travel ... e#/results


Actually the Sunday flight is an A321. Interestingly the flight from YUL has similar times (the A321 leaves 15 minutes later than the 737 flights), but the A321 has a 1 hour turn (2155-2255) while the 737 will sit overnight and not head back until 1100 the following morning.
 
timf
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:20 pm

hawaiian717 wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
The final pier of T2? Are you talking about T2E?


More likely he’s referring to plans to extend T2W past gate 51. I’ve seen proposals that extend the concourse to then along McCain Rd.


Yes, that's part of the Master Plan.
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:19 pm

alexdelzotto1 wrote:
Air Transat has loaded 3 weekly 737-800 service to YUL starting June 15th, 2020
No official press release yet, how ever it's loading in their flight schedule online.
https://www.airtransat.com/en-CA/Travel ... e#/results

Nice find alex', thanks for reporting it!

My first thought is, we'll see an announcement next week from AC announcing (daily?) YUL-SAN service beginning next spring. (Based on past events.)

I've wondered if/when someone would start this route; it seems like the next progression in SAN-Canada air service, and makes even more sense than what Swoop seems to have in mind (if the MAX issue ever gets solved.) I'll have to read up a bit on Air Transat since I've never paid any attention to them in the past.

Any new carrier is great IMO! I hope this service does start as planned and that it flourishes!

bb
 
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hawaiian717
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:00 pm

SANFan wrote:
My first thought is, we'll see an announcement next week from AC announcing (daily?) YUL-SAN service beginning next spring. (Based on past events.)


That seems unlikely unless Air Canada’s acquisition of AirTransat falls apart.
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Oct 12, 2019 7:04 am

Here's a bit more individualized page at Air Transat's website: https://www.airtransat.com/en-CA/united ... ax=1-0-0-0
It does seem pretty legitimate (serious) although it's strange that despite some obvious work on this particular page on their website, there's been no official PR yet...

(BTW, does that picture of a skyline look anything like San Diego's? The palm trees could be from our fair city though....)

The Canadian race is on -- will Air Transat or Swoop actually begin serving SAN first? Will either one ever really start flying here?

bb
 
SANMAN66
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Oct 12, 2019 5:25 pm

SANFan wrote:
despite some obvious work on this particular page on their website, there's been no official PR yet
bb

If I can recall, there was no PR when Volaris was flying here. Hopefully, we will hear something soon from Air Transat. Air Transat and Swoop along with AC Rouge, and Westjet would be a total of 4 Canadian carriers serving SAN, if you count AC Express as a separate carrier, it would make 5 carriers!
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SANAV8R
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Oct 12, 2019 5:29 pm

YVR, YYC, YYZ now the planned YUL, and the proposed YXX and YEG. Seems like SAN-Canada market is growing. I wonder if YWG will be next? YWG has services to other Western cities like PHX/AZA, LAS, PSP (mostly seasonal) and would be a good contender for Swoop once they get their other services in order.


SANFan wrote:
Here's a bit more individualized page at Air Transat's website: https://www.airtransat.com/en-CA/united ... ax=1-0-0-0
It does seem pretty legitimate (serious) although it's strange that despite some obvious work on this particular page on their website, there's been no official PR yet...

(BTW, does that picture of a skyline look anything like San Diego's? The palm trees could be from our fair city though....)

The Canadian race is on -- will Air Transat or Swoop actually begin serving SAN first? Will either one ever really start flying here?

bb


They at least managed to get the other picture on the page right - an aerial shot of Embarcadero. But the headline pic is LA.
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SANMAN66
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sat Oct 12, 2019 5:35 pm

SANFan wrote:
(BTW, does that picture of a skyline look anything like San Diego's? The palm trees could be from our fair city though).
bb


Well sort of, if you look at the lower right of the picture, those buildings look like the ones in front of the USS Midway museum. The picture was probably taken at an angle to frame the two palm trees in it?
When you scroll down on Air Transat's page, the pictures are definitely from San Diego.
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PacoMartin
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Oct 13, 2019 3:04 am

DL717 wrote:
PacoMartin wrote:
Now the 76 passenger Embraer 175 are being used to fly to distances up to 1557 miles from SAN airport. So in addition to 16 daily flights the 109 miles from SAN to LAX airports, you have 29 daily flights to dozens of airports, some of which are already well served by larger jets.

These smaller jets are up to 2*(16+29)*365=32,850 operations per year taking a large chunk of the 260,000 operations annually the single runway can handle.


And over time those will grow to become mainline markets taking pressure off of the legacy carriers trying to feed people through hubs on space wasting widebody aircraft.


That argument could be made for the point to point destinations.

miles flts seats code city airline
314 77 5852 FAT Fresno, CA SkyWest Airlines Inc.
375 31 2356 MRY Monterey, CA SkyWest Airlines Inc.
508 31 2356 STS Santa Rosa, CA SkyWest Airlines Inc.
749 30 2280 BOI Boise, ID SkyWest Airlines Inc.
769 11 836 HDN Hayden, CO SkyWest Airlines Inc.
1027 20 1520 GEG Spokane, WA Horizon Air
1080 52 3952 PAE Everett, WA Horizon Air
1313 31 2356 OMA Omaha, NE SkyWest Airlines Inc.
1334 28 2128 MCI Kansas City, MO SkyWest Airlines Inc.

But using regional jets to major airports just wastes the 260,000 operations a year the single runway can support without constrained operations.

miles flts seats code city airline
258 98 7448 LAS Las Vegas, NV Compass Airlines
304 1 76 PHX Phoenix, AZ SkyWest Airlines Inc.
417 100 7600 SJC San Jose, CA SkyWest Airlines Inc.
447 87 6612 SFO San Francisco, CA SkyWest Airlines Inc.
480 89 6764 SMF Sacramento, CA SkyWest Airlines Inc.
626 31 2356 SLC Salt Lake City, UT SkyWest Airlines Inc.
1050 3 228 SEA Seattle, WA Horizon Air
1182 31 2356 DAL Dallas, TX SkyWest Airlines Inc.
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Oct 13, 2019 1:28 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
Is the new Terminal 1 going to have fewer international gates than Terminal 2?


The plan is that all gates will be connected airside, from gate 1 to gate 51+ (whatever we max out at), but there will be only one international arrivals/departure area.
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Oct 13, 2019 3:06 pm

SANAV8R wrote:
YVR, YYC, YYZ now the planned YUL, and the proposed YXX and YEG. Seems like SAN-Canada market is growing. I wonder if YWG will be next? YWG has services to other Western cities like PHX/AZA, LAS, PSP (mostly seasonal) and would be a good contender for Swoop once they get their other services in order.
SANFan wrote:
Here's a bit more individualized page at Air Transat's website: https://www.airtransat.com/en-CA/united ... ax=1-0-0-0
It does seem pretty legitimate (serious) although it's strange that despite some obvious work on this particular page on their website, there's been no official PR yet...
(BTW, does that picture of a skyline look anything like San Diego's? The palm trees could be from our fair city though....)
The Canadian race is on -- will Air Transat or Swoop actually begin serving SAN first? Will either one ever really start flying here?
bb

They at least managed to get the other picture on the page right - an aerial shot of Embarcadero. But the headline pic is LA.

Yeah, well, you know, LA, San Diego -- it's all the same to many! You'd think someone in media relations at TS might have gone to the trouble of snagging a pic of the SAN skyline at least! Oh well,,,

If we actually see service on TS before LA does, or anyone else in CA or the west coast for that matter, I will feel pretty good! Let them use pictures of Bonsall if they want.

The route does show up on the OAG thread this morning and I just posted there.

Maybe we'll spot a presser this week. Or maybe the service will never materialize. It's a bit early to tell what's going to happen next summer...

bb
 
SANMAN66
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Oct 13, 2019 6:52 pm

:lol:
SANFan wrote:
Yeah, well, you know, LA, San Diego -- it's all the same to many!
bb

Well, at least the palm trees are the same! :lol:
Last edited by SANMAN66 on Sun Oct 13, 2019 7:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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SANMAN66
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Oct 13, 2019 7:00 pm

SANFan wrote:
If we actually see service on TS before LA does, or anyone else in CA or the west coast for that matter

The route does show up on the OAG thread this morning and I just posted there.

bb

I wouldn't be surprised if Air Transat already serves LAX or SFO. If the route is already showing up on OAG, would it be safe to say that Air Transat is set on starting service here?
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washingtonflyer
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Oct 13, 2019 7:01 pm

SANMAN66 wrote:
SANFan wrote:
Yeah, well, you know, LA, San Diego -- it's all the same to many!
bb

Well, at least the palm trees are the same!


No, they're not. Palm trees in L.A. are smog stunted.
 
SANMAN66
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Oct 13, 2019 7:03 pm

washingtonflyer wrote:

No, they're not. Palm trees in L.A. are smog stunted.

:lol: :lol: :lol: That's funny!
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Oct 14, 2019 9:31 am

SANMAN66 wrote:
SANFan wrote:
If we actually see service on TS before LA does, or anyone else in CA or the west coast for that matter

The route does show up on the OAG thread this morning and I just posted there.

bb

I wouldn't be surprised if Air Transat already serves LAX or SFO. If the route is already showing up on OAG, would it be safe to say that Air Transat is set on starting service here?

Well L-Man, if I remember correctly, didn't Swoop show up in the OAG-thread plus all their PR and website promotions (and even with a PR on the SAN.org site!) before it was just as quickly dropped and delayed until summer 2020? The same could certainly happen with Air Transat me thinks...

TS's website currently lists no service to, or planned to, anywhere out west in the U.S. besides here; as far as I can tell, SAN could very well be the first city they serve. (The same situation was supposed to be the case with Swoop - SAN was the first CA city to see service when our routes were announced earlier this year.)

As I've said, I hope it does happen but I'll believe it when the first TS 738 or 321 lands in SDIA! :crossfingers:

bb
 
vedatil4
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Oct 14, 2019 4:38 pm

SANFan wrote:
SANMAN66 wrote:
SANFan wrote:
If we actually see service on TS before LA does, or anyone else in CA or the west coast for that matter

The route does show up on the OAG thread this morning and I just posted there.

bb

I wouldn't be surprised if Air Transat already serves LAX or SFO. If the route is already showing up on OAG, would it be safe to say that Air Transat is set on starting service here?

Well L-Man, if I remember correctly, didn't Swoop show up in the OAG-thread plus all their PR and website promotions (and even with a PR on the SAN.org site!) before it was just as quickly dropped and delayed until summer 2020? The same could certainly happen with Air Transat me thinks...

TS's website currently lists no service to, or planned to, anywhere out west in the U.S. besides here; as far as I can tell, SAN could very well be the first city they serve. (The same situation was supposed to be the case with Swoop - SAN was the first CA city to see service when our routes were announced earlier this year.)

As I've said, I hope it does happen but I'll believe it when the first TS 738 or 321 lands in SDIA! :crossfingers:

bb


It looks like you can buy AirTransat tickets on their website for San Diego to Montreal in June. The flight times seem workable for people in San Diego.

Montreal is a great town to visit. It can easily be combined with a short trip to Quebec City.

I was disappointed when Swoop showed flights then dropped out. I don't know if it had something to do with the 737 max problem. But I remember the flight times to Edmonton were bad. You'd get there around 11pm if I remember right.

Edmonton has a great mall. You can spend days in there. I was looking forward to going back and staying at the hotel at the mall that has themed rooms.

It's funny that the webpage shows an LA skyline for San Diego. Sheesh.
 
SANMAN66
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 15, 2019 12:11 am

vedatil4 wrote:
I was disappointed when Swoop showed flights then dropped out. I don't know if it had something to do with the 737 max problem.


If I recall, Swoop delayed SAN service until summer 2020, due to the 737 MAX groundings.
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blacksoviet
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 15, 2019 7:12 am

Which gate is AirTransat going to use? My guess is that they will use Gate 30 now that Allegiant has moved all operations to Terminal 1.
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:02 am

From RoutesOnline today:
Air Transat adds Montreal – San Diego service in S20
By Jim Liu
Posted 15 October 2019 01:00

Air Transat in summer 2020 season is introducing Montreal – San Diego seasonal service, on board Boeing 737-800 aircraft. The airline will operate this route three times weekly from 15JUN20.

TS194 YUL1845 – 2140SAN 73H 1
TS196 YUL1845 – 2140SAN 73H 3
TS198 YUL1900 – 2155SAN 321 7

TS195 SAN1110 – 1915YUL 73H 2
TS197 SAN1110 – 1915YUL 73H 4
TS199 SAN2255 – 0700+1YUL 321 7

Another 'confirmation' of the new carrier and route coming next summer!

As was mentioned up-thread, TS will apparently RON here 2 nights a week with a pretty lengthily ground time, plus they will use a 321 once a week! (If everything holds together for 9 months.)

bb
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 15, 2019 2:54 pm

Finally! A press release from Air Transat formally announcing SAN service next summer! It does mention that the route is seasonal -- June 15 thru Oct 28. I think all other details have already been posted on this thread. Here's the link: https://www.transat.com/en-CA/corporate ... ses/124275

It looks like the cx service to MSY has already been expanded, even before the inaugural flight to the city so perhaps the same will happen here if the early booking numbers look good. I don't see any announcement from SAN.org yet.

Looks like 1 new carrier so far for 2020; let's see how many more we end up with!

bb
 
vedatil4
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 15, 2019 5:18 pm

Technical question: It looks like the AirTransat plane will sit at SAN for 13-1/2 hours. Couldn't that same plane fly somewhere close in Mexico, say Cabo, after the 6am curfew, then come back by 11:10am to fly people to Montreal? It seems like a flight could be added during 6am to 11:10am using the same plane. Shouldn't the airline try to fly the plane somewhere instead of having it sit on the tarmac that whole time?
 
SANMAN66
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 15, 2019 11:43 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
Which gate is AirTransat going to use? My guess is that they will use Gate 30 now that Allegiant has moved all operations to Terminal 1.


Canadian passengers are pre-cleared in Canada, which means that Canadian carriers can use any gates.
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SANMAN66
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Oct 15, 2019 11:57 pm

SANFan wrote:
Finally! A press release from Air Transat formally announcing SAN service next summer! It does mention that the route is seasonal -- June 15 thru Oct 28. I think all other details have already been posted on this thread. Here's the link: https://www.transat.com/en-CA/corporate ... ses/124275


Good find! It already shows up on Wikipedia also. I used to hate those "seasonal" flights, but in recent years I learned to be just as happy to get seasonal flights as much as year-round.
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SANMAN66
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 16, 2019 12:04 am

SANFan wrote:

Looks like 1 new carrier so far for 2020; let's see how many more we end up with!
bb


Let the guessing begin! KLM?Air France?Korean?
COPA?
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blacksoviet
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 16, 2019 12:29 am

SANMAN66 wrote:
SANFan wrote:

Looks like 1 new carrier so far for 2020; let's see how many more we end up with!
bb


Let the guessing begin! KLM?Air France?Korean?
COPA?

I would like to see Air France send a daily A340 or A330.
 
WN732
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 16, 2019 12:37 am

blacksoviet wrote:
SANFan wrote:
LindyFlight wrote:
Not quite. He's saying that BA will swap equipment from the 77W to the 744 on 10/27/19, and instead of switching in March of 2020 to the 77W, it will remain a 747 until further notice.

:checkmark: To put it another way, Speedbird will hopefully operate permanently as a 747 in and out of SAN beginning later this month, which is a major achievement for our 'little airport that could'! This is a huge landmark in our area's civil aviation world for those of us who've been in that world for decades -- myself since the late 1940s!

And yeah, I guess when the "Queen" is no longer in BA's fleet, she will cease to serve SAN...

bb

When the Queen is gone, could BA switch to the A380 for part of the year?


There's no way that thing could even operate at SAN. Nowhere to park it, taxiways aren't made for it, they would certainly ram the WN 737's at gates 5 & 6, there's no way.
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 16, 2019 5:53 am

SANMAN66 wrote:
SANFan wrote:
Looks like 1 new carrier so far for 2020; let's see how many more we end up with!
bb

Let the guessing begin! KLM? Air France? Korean? COPA?

Yes, I'll take 2 of the above please! But, L-Man, you forgot Philippine.

In a perfect world, I dream of seeing Korean, COPA and Philippine become full-time residents at SDIA next year; that of course in addition to Air Transat and Swoop! That wouldn't be a bad year would it? I have to admit I'd really rather not see another Euro carrier quite yet -- I want to see LH go daily first, indicating healthy year-round loads in the back and in the front; them we get KLM or Air France to show up.

Unfortunately, we know it's far from a perfect world so I'll be happy to see any new carriers in addition to TS, plus some continued domestic adds by AS, maybe DL, and/or WN, and perhaps even NK?

bb
 
cheapflier
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 16, 2019 6:38 am

blacksoviet wrote:
Which gate is AirTransat going to use? My guess is that they will use Gate 30 now that Allegiant has moved all operations to Terminal 1.

Based on the current trend, I'd guess 48-51. Most international carriers use them even if they're from a preclearance airport, like Air Canada. The currency exchange kiosk was moved over there to support them.

vedatil4 wrote:
Technical question: It looks like the AirTransat plane will sit at SAN for 13-1/2 hours. Couldn't that same plane fly somewhere close in Mexico, say Cabo, after the 6am curfew, then come back by 11:10am to fly people to Montreal? It seems like a flight could be added during 6am to 11:10am using the same plane. Shouldn't the airline try to fly the plane somewhere instead of having it sit on the tarmac that whole time?

My assumption is it's a crew issue. Air Transat will RON them with just enough time so they can fly back the next day. The FAA requires minimum 10 hours of rest time, which includes 8 hours of uninterrupted sleep for pilots. I believe Transport Canada is similar.

For the Sunday flight, they'll probably start with a fresh crew that works the return. Again, an assumption, that the redeyes will work for travelers who need to work Monday, but not so much for midweek leisure. I'm sure others with more knowledge about crew scheduling can chime in with more informed response.

SANFan wrote:

In a perfect world, I dream of seeing Korean, COPA and Philippine become full-time residents at SDIA next year; that of course in addition to Air Transat and Swoop! That wouldn't be a bad year would it? I have to admit I'd really rather not see another Euro carrier quite yet -- I want to see LH go daily first, indicating healthy year-round loads in the back and in the front; them we get KLM or Air France to show up.

Unfortunately, we know it's far from a perfect world so I'll be happy to see any new carriers in addition to TS, plus some continued domestic adds by AS, maybe DL, and/or WN, and perhaps even NK?
bb

Amen. I'm hesitant about another European carrier, although I wouldn't mind an LCC like Norwegian. Hoping to see COPA.

I'm looking to Asia for near-term growth. Philippine is my leading contender. I'd, of course, welcome Korean, but I just don't see it. I don't know if there's enough O&D. They codeshare already with Alaska, which is a bonus, but since Korean recently moved closer to Delta, so I'm not sure they'd expand the relationship with Alaska at this moment. Maybe a few years ago, but today?
 
vedatil4
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 16, 2019 3:46 pm

Thanks for responding to my question cheapflier.

I've always wondered why Philippine airlines doesn't try to fly to San Diego. There are lots of Filipino friends in town. I feel bad for them when they have to deal with getting to LAX to catch a flight there. I'm sure they'd welcome the service.
 
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 16, 2019 5:18 pm

vedatil4 wrote:
I've always wondered why Philippine airlines doesn't try to fly to San Diego. There are lots of Filipino friends in town. I feel bad for them when they have to deal with getting to LAX to catch a flight there. I'm sure they'd welcome the service.


Gravity is why. SAN simply doesn't have enough of its own gravity for many international airlines to have a flight to SAN - especially if either LAX or SFO is flying the route. There has to be enough gravity - i.e., a premium demand from the new airport to support the new route AND not take away revenue from any other of their flights.

To that end, one can consider LAX to be the equivalent of Jupiter (and perhaps SFO as Saturn). It is the largest in the vicinity, and as such has the strongest gravity. Premium demand is strong there, thus fueling its seemingly never-ending list of foreign carriers. SAN, on the other hand, has to attract international carriers that are already at LAX, and the market must be clearly delineated between the two airports. BA has at SAN the longest, and has found San Diego a market worthy of its own 747. JAL and LH have also carefully studied the market and have added their own flights, confident that they can bring in the yields needed to ensure profitability.

For Philippine Airlines, however, they are quite happy with filling two 777's per day from LAX, as well as assisting Filipinos outside the immediate area to get to LAX. Given how much of this market is VFR (and thus people looking for bargains), it simply works better to gather passengers at LAX instead of spreading out the flights. When the premium demand to MNL from SAN comes about, and the airline is certain that no premium passengers will be "pilfered" from LAX, we might see a flight commence.

Just as a side note: if we do consider LAX to be Jupiter, then Bakersfield (BFL) has to be the asteroid belt between Jupiter and Mars.
 
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PacoMartin
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 16, 2019 6:50 pm

The ethnic makeup of Albuquerque, New Mexico in 2010 was 46.7% of the population Hispanics or Latinos of any race. Yet there are no flights to Mexico from the Albuquerque, Airport.

vedatil4 wrote:
I've always wondered why Philippine airlines doesn't try to fly to San Diego. There are lots of Filipino friends in town. I feel bad for them when they have to deal with getting to LAX to catch a flight there. I'm sure they'd welcome the service.


A trans-oceanic flight is an expensive proposition and passengers who are visiting friends and relatives is unlikely to make such a route profitable. You need substantial business traffic as well. San Diego's 5th trans-oceanic route will undoubtedly be Seoul, Shanghai, Paris or Amsterdam.

Japan Airlines Tokyo–Narita
Lufthansa Frankfurt
British Airways London–Heathrow
Edelweiss Seasonal: Zurich
 
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DL717
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 16, 2019 6:50 pm

PacoMartin wrote:
DL717 wrote:
PacoMartin wrote:
Now the 76 passenger Embraer 175 are being used to fly to distances up to 1557 miles from SAN airport. So in addition to 16 daily flights the 109 miles from SAN to LAX airports, you have 29 daily flights to dozens of airports, some of which are already well served by larger jets.

These smaller jets are up to 2*(16+29)*365=32,850 operations per year taking a large chunk of the 260,000 operations annually the single runway can handle.


And over time those will grow to become mainline markets taking pressure off of the legacy carriers trying to feed people through hubs on space wasting widebody aircraft.


That argument could be made for the point to point destinations.

miles flts seats code city airline
314 77 5852 FAT Fresno, CA SkyWest Airlines Inc.
375 31 2356 MRY Monterey, CA SkyWest Airlines Inc.
508 31 2356 STS Santa Rosa, CA SkyWest Airlines Inc.
749 30 2280 BOI Boise, ID SkyWest Airlines Inc.
769 11 836 HDN Hayden, CO SkyWest Airlines Inc.
1027 20 1520 GEG Spokane, WA Horizon Air
1080 52 3952 PAE Everett, WA Horizon Air
1313 31 2356 OMA Omaha, NE SkyWest Airlines Inc.
1334 28 2128 MCI Kansas City, MO SkyWest Airlines Inc.

But using regional jets to major airports just wastes the 260,000 operations a year the single runway can support without constrained operations.

miles flts seats code city airline
258 98 7448 LAS Las Vegas, NV Compass Airlines
304 1 76 PHX Phoenix, AZ SkyWest Airlines Inc.
417 100 7600 SJC San Jose, CA SkyWest Airlines Inc.
447 87 6612 SFO San Francisco, CA SkyWest Airlines Inc.
480 89 6764 SMF Sacramento, CA SkyWest Airlines Inc.
626 31 2356 SLC Salt Lake City, UT SkyWest Airlines Inc.
1050 3 228 SEA Seattle, WA Horizon Air
1182 31 2356 DAL Dallas, TX SkyWest Airlines Inc.


First, it’s 290k for a single runway config. Nextgen probably pushes that to 300k. Second, using an RJ today is irrelevant to tomorrow or when congestion settles in. San Diego will suffer in terms of seat availability and price, but it’s their own damn fault.
Funny. It only took one pandemic for those who argue endlessly about natural selection to stop believing in natural selection.
 
SANMAN66
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:12 pm

Philippine Airlines did apply for SAN-MNL via YVR back in 2007, but the problem was that the FAA downgraded The Philippines to CAT-ll. Later when The Philippines got back their safety rating, Philippine Airlines lost interest in SAN. Today anyone who wants to go to MNL either can take a flight from LAX, or fly JAL SAN-NRT and connect to MNL from NRT.
Last edited by SANMAN66 on Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:19 pm

SANMAN66 wrote:
Philippine did apply for SAN-MNL via YVR back in 2007, but the problem was that the FAA downgraded the Philippines to CAT-ll. Later when the Philippines got back their safety rating, Philippine Airlines lost interest in SAN. Today anyone who wants to go to MNL either can take a flight from LAX, or fly JAL SAN-NRT and connect to MNL from NRT.


Agreed on all counts. I would also venture that JAL connects a lot of San Diego passengers via NRT to the Philippines, thus negating further PAL's chances of flying to SAN.
 
SANMAN66
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:30 pm

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
Agreed on all counts. I would also venture that JAL connects a lot of San Diego passengers via NRT to the Philippines, thus negating further PAL's chances of flying to SAN.


You're right, I've heard that JAL is taking care of much of the MNL bound pax from San Diego, and they're doing a great job at it. That's probably the reason that Phillippine Air lost interest in SAN.
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PacoMartin
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:28 pm

DL717 wrote:
First, it’s 290k for a single runway config. Nextgen probably pushes that to 300k.


Constrained operations are roughly from 260K to 300K per year. There is no magic number because there is quite a bit of fluctuation on a daily basis

Operations in 2019 are
Min 467, Max 735, Average 635.2 - per day
170,455 | 268,275 | 231,852 - equivalent per year (i.e. first row x 365)
139 | 88 | 102 - Average seconds between operation for an 18 hour day
Roughly 3% more than 2018
Busiest period is mid July

DL717 wrote:
Second, using an RJ today is irrelevant to tomorrow or when congestion settles in.


I'm not so sure that is a true statement. Once business patterns get established they don't change of their own free will that easily.

DL717 wrote:
San Diego will suffer in terms of seat availability and price, but it’s their own damn fault.


I think the country needs to get serious about alternatives to fixed wing aircraft for trips of 500 miles or less.
 
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gollumSD
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:30 am

Just read on the Union-Tribune site that Air Transat will start non-stop service to Montreal. It will be flying between the two cities three times a week, starting next June through the end of October
"Not all those who wander are lost"
 
blacksoviet
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Oct 17, 2019 2:30 am

[threeid][/threeid]
gollumSD wrote:
Just read on the Union-Tribune site that Air Transat will start non-stop service to Montreal. It will be flying between the two cities three times a week, starting next June through the end of October

Hopefully we will see some A310s as an occasional substitute.
 
blacksoviet
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Oct 17, 2019 2:39 am

PacoMartin wrote:
DL717 wrote:
First, it’s 290k for a single runway config. Nextgen probably pushes that to 300k.


Constrained operations are roughly from 260K to 300K per year. There is no magic number because there is quite a bit of fluctuation on a daily basis

Operations in 2019 are
Min 467, Max 735, Average 635.2 - per day
170,455 | 268,275 | 231,852 - equivalent per year (i.e. first row x 365)
139 | 88 | 102 - Average seconds between operation for an 18 hour day
Roughly 3% more than 2018
Busiest period is mid July

DL717 wrote:
Second, using an RJ today is irrelevant to tomorrow or when congestion settles in.


I'm not so sure that is a true statement. Once business patterns get established they don't change of their own free will that easily.

DL717 wrote:
San Diego will suffer in terms of seat availability and price, but it’s their own damn fault.


I think the country needs to get serious about alternatives to fixed wing aircraft for trips of 500 miles or less.

Why did American Eagle retire the Saabs? Weren't they more profitable than regional jets on flights to LAX?
 
blacksoviet
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Oct 17, 2019 2:46 am

PacoMartin wrote:
The ethnic makeup of Albuquerque, New Mexico in 2010 was 46.7% of the population Hispanics or Latinos of any race. Yet there are no flights to Mexico from the Albuquerque, Airport.

vedatil4 wrote:
I've always wondered why Philippine airlines doesn't try to fly to San Diego. There are lots of Filipino friends in town. I feel bad for them when they have to deal with getting to LAX to catch a flight there. I'm sure they'd welcome the service.


A trans-oceanic flight is an expensive proposition and passengers who are visiting friends and relatives is unlikely to make such a route profitable. You need substantial business traffic as well. San Diego's 5th trans-oceanic route will undoubtedly be Seoul, Shanghai, Paris or Amsterdam.

Japan Airlines Tokyo–Narita
Lufthansa Frankfurt
British Airways London–Heathrow
Edelweiss Seasonal: Zurich

Which airline can fly to Shanghai profitably?
 
cheapflier
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:20 am

blacksoviet wrote:
Which airline can fly to Shanghai profitably?

Outside of China Eastern? I think the U.S. carriers serve it (and China) because their corporate clients demand it, but it's hardly an extremely profitable destination. If not for the clients they'd probably leave it to partners.
 
panamair
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Oct 17, 2019 7:49 am

PacoMartin wrote:
Edelweiss Seasonal: Zurich


It looks like EDW has shortened their 2020 season - flights to/from ZRH will only operate in July, August and part of September. So far it shows 2x weekly (Wed, Sat) in July and August, and only 1x weekly (Sat) for the first three weeks of September (so just a total of 21 departures the whole season - 9 in July, 9 in August and 3 in Sept).

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