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PacoMartin
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:46 am

According to SAN history
1983 : United Airlines began offering daily flights from San Diego to Honolulu, the first such regularly scheduled service to Hawaii. Obviously these flights must have stopped at some point.

I lived in San Diego from 1997 to 2005 and I don't remember ever being able to fly non-stop to Hawaii. We always went via LAX which was a real pain. When did nonstop flights resume?

I assume it was after 2010 when the first Airbus A330-200 were delivered to HA.
 
tphuang
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:52 am

SANFan wrote:
tphuang wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
I wonder how many seats Jetblue needs to fill on the FLL flight to break even?

That flight has been a solid performer since second half of last year. One of their better performing non mint transcons.

Glad to hear that. (You prolly mentioned it in one of your posts elsewhere but I didn't happen to see it.) I'm happy that Blue stuck with it; I expected that a nonstop from SAN to Lauderdale should do well but it apparently took a while to get there.

I'd love to see what a daytime flight would do in the market but I'm sure that will not happen (on B6 anyway) anytime soon. If the market has matured enough, maybe NK will try it at some point. Spirit has flown a one-stop, no-change flight between SAN & FLL for years now, stopping in IAH in both directions. The last time they did that at SAN was ORD -- they flew SAN-LAS-ORD r/t for a couple of years and eventually they dropped Vegas and made it a nonstop to ORD. Perhaps that same scenario will happen again with Ft. Lauderdale.

I suppose if there are enough business folks wanting to fly up front, Blue might eventually put Mint service (and a larger airplane) on the route. Or, as long as they keep the route all to themselves, who knows, could they even daily-double it?

bb

I think MCO-SAN is more likely than a second daily on FLL-SAN.
 
SANAV8R
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:13 pm

PacoMartin wrote:
According to SAN history
1983 : United Airlines began offering daily flights from San Diego to Honolulu, the first such regularly scheduled service to Hawaii. Obviously these flights must have stopped at some point.

I lived in San Diego from 1997 to 2005 and I don't remember ever being able to fly non-stop to Hawaii. We always went via LAX which was a real pain. When did nonstop flights resume?

I assume it was after 2010 when the first Airbus A330-200 were delivered to HA.


Hawaiian served since June 25, 2001. Utilizing DC-10s then 767s the. 330s and eventually 321

https://newsroom.hawaiianairlines.com/r ... d-honolulu

UA has seasonal service in 00s too.

There used to be nonstop on DL (using L1011) according to a 1995 OAG.
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SANMAN66
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:43 pm

PacoMartin wrote:
According to SAN history
1983 : United Airlines began offering daily flights from San Diego to Honolulu, the first such regularly scheduled service to Hawaii. Obviously these flights must have stopped at some point.

I lived in San Diego from 1997 to 2005 and I don't remember ever being able to fly non-stop to Hawaii. We always went via LAX which was a real pain. When did nonstop flights resume


SAN history has it wrong. UA started nonstop flights to HNL in 1982. I travelled with my family to Hawaii for vacation and we used that flight, It was a DC-10. In 1983, the nonstop flight was replaced by a 747 that flew SAN-LAX-HNL. At some point during the 90s, HA began offering nonstop flights to HNL.

Let me also add that Western Airlines flew SLC-SAN-HNL using a DC-10 before being absorbed by DL in 1987. Delta continued the route using one of their. L-10-11s until the early 90s.
Last edited by SANMAN66 on Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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washingtonflyer
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:55 pm

PacoMartin wrote:
According to SAN history
1983 : United Airlines began offering daily flights from San Diego to Honolulu, the first such regularly scheduled service to Hawaii. Obviously these flights must have stopped at some point.

I lived in San Diego from 1997 to 2005 and I don't remember ever being able to fly non-stop to Hawaii. We always went via LAX which was a real pain. When did nonstop flights resume?

I assume it was after 2010 when the first Airbus A330-200 were delivered to HA.


For a quite while back in the early to mid 1980s, there was a United 747-100 that departed SAN each morning at around 8:00 am. From what I remember, it was either a direct SAN-HNL flight or it went via LAX.
 
LAOCA
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:02 pm

SANAV8R wrote:
PacoMartin wrote:
According to SAN history
1983 :

There used to be nonstop on DL (using L1011) according to a 1995 OAG.


Pretty sure that was direct, not nonstop.
 
SANMAN66
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Nov 11, 2019 2:27 pm

LAOCA wrote:
SANAV8R wrote:
PacoMartin wrote:
According to SAN history
1983 :

There used to be nonstop on DL (using L1011) according to a 1995 OAG.


Pretty sure that was direct, not nonstop.


Most likely that was the route inherited from Western Airlines when they were absorbed by DL. It was SLC-SAN-HNL. Thinking back, during the 80s and 90s, it was practically unheard of to fly on a 737 nonstop to Hawaii, such as what AS and WN does today!
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PacoMartin
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:10 pm

SANAV8R wrote:
Hawaiian served since June 25, 2001. Utilizing DC-10s then 767s the. 330s and eventually 321
https://newsroom.hawaiianairlines.com/r ... d-honolulu

Thanks for the link. I was able to piece together a fractured history of Hawaiian Airlines and SAN
Hawaiian Airlines
Jun 25, 2001 -- DC-10s (SAN-HNL)
Nov 15, 2001 --Boeing 767-300ER (SAN-HNL)
Feb 27, 2003 - Last DC-10 retired
Jun 1, 2003 -Boeing 767-300ER (SAN-OGG)
Jun 9, 2006 -Boeing 767-300ER (SAN-OGG) re-instated
Jan 9, 2007 through Mar 15, 2007 (SAN-OGG) suspended
2008 - June 18, 2010 (SAN-OGG) suspended
May 1, 2018 - Airbus A321neo (SAN-OGG)

If you work for the Navy in San Diego you tend to go to Hawaii fairly frequently.
My memory must be shaky. I distinctly remember a terrible turboprop flight to LAX where everyone was puking and I missed my connection to HNL. I went to San Diego in Jan 1998 so it must have been before fiscal year 2003.

The government fares for 2020
SAN DIEGO - HONOLULU are on Alaska Air for $169 each way
SAN DIEGO - KAHULUI are on Hawaiian for $239 each way
SAN DIEGO - HONOLULU was $290 each way back in 2001 and $328 on UA in 2002, $290 on HA in 2003.
 
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PacoMartin
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:19 pm

LAOCA wrote:
Pretty sure that was direct, not nonstop.

The web page says: United Airlines began offering daily flights from San Diego to Honolulu, the first such regularly scheduled service to Hawaii.
So it is not specific.

But since wiki list passengers as 6,547,439 in 1983, and 14,942,061 in 2001 when HA started service it makes more sense that it would be direct and not non-stop in 1983.

The history says in 1934 San Diego Municipal Airport was made a permanent international airport of entry by the U.S. Treasury Department, establishing the airport as San Diego International Airport. But I can't imagine international flights began that early. Passengers only broke 2 million in 1966 which gave them authorization to build the new terminal.
 
SANAV8R
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Nov 12, 2019 1:14 am

I did a little more looking I’m seeing Western had service with 720s and DC10 as far back as 1975. I’m trying to figure if it was direct or nonstop.

United has service by 1979 at least as well. I’m seeing one flight in April 79 being operated with D8S equipment.
You're either gonna love me or hate me. There is no in between with me.
 
SANMAN66
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:29 am

PacoMartin wrote:
The history says in 1934 San Diego Municipal Airport was made a permanent international airport of entry by the U.S. Treasury Department, establishing the airport as San Diego International Airport. But I can't imagine international flights began that early.


In the 80s I used to wonder why the formal name for SAN was "San Diego International Airport" when there were no international flights at the time.
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:52 am

SANAV8R wrote:
I did a little more looking I’m seeing Western had service with 720s and DC10 as far back as 1975. I’m trying to figure if it was direct or nonstop.

United has service by 1979 at least as well. I’m seeing one flight in April 79 being operated with D8S equipment.

I'll throw in a couple of dates that I've located in my records; I'm pretty sure they're correct. WA started flying to HNL in 1971, when they were awarded the authorization by the CAB. They used, at various times, 707s & 720Bs, sometimes both, and eventually upgraded the route to DC10s. These lasted as long as WA did, 'til they were sucked up by DL in 1987; DL continued flying to HNL until April 1995. (They made a half-a**ed restart in the market in June 2010 that lasted about 2 months....)

UA also won authorization for SAN-HNL along with WA and started flying nonstop in Apr 1970 using DC-8-62s. I know they flew 747s via LAX at some point and I'm not sure how long they kept flying nonstop in the market. I do remember that CO and PA also had applied to fly SAN-HNL in that big Trans-Pacific route case in the very late 60s but lost out. (I was crushed when I learned that those 2 airlines would not be entering service at SAN back then.)

As an aside, HA began SAN service in Nov 2003 and don't forget Aloha (AQ/TS) started SAN-OGG service in Dec 2004 which they flew until the carrier failed. I believe they were the first carrier to fly 737s across the ocean from SAN to the Islands.

bb
 
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hawaiian717
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Nov 12, 2019 4:21 pm

PacoMartin wrote:
I was able to piece together a fractured history of Hawaiian Airlines and SAN
Hawaiian Airlines
Jun 25, 2001 -- DC-10s (SAN-HNL)
Nov 15, 2001 --Boeing 767-300ER (SAN-HNL)
Feb 27, 2003 - Last DC-10 retired
Jun 1, 2003 -Boeing 767-300ER (SAN-OGG)
Jun 9, 2006 -Boeing 767-300ER (SAN-OGG) re-instated
Jan 9, 2007 through Mar 15, 2007 (SAN-OGG) suspended
2008 - June 18, 2010 (SAN-OGG) suspended
May 1, 2018 - Airbus A321neo (SAN-OGG)


The early part of this at least sounds about right to me. I started regularly flying SAN-Hawaii in 1998 and went via LAX. When HA started, they used the DC-10, were handled by Northwest and parked at gate 22. It was also originally flight HA31/32, and eventually changed to the current HA15/16 flight numbers. SAN was one of the first destinations that switched to the 767.
 
Cdydatzigs
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Nov 12, 2019 4:35 pm

PacoMartin wrote:
I lived in San Diego from 1997 to 2005 and I don't remember ever being able to fly non-stop to Hawaii. We always went via LAX which was a real pain. When did nonstop flights resume?


When I was in high school in the mid-90s, there was a Hawaiian kid in my class who would fly Delta (via DC-10 I think) to Hawaii from SAN to visit family. This was around 1994 or so, and I'm pretty sure it was non-stop too.
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:45 pm

Cdydatzigs wrote:
When I was in high school in the mid-90s, there was a Hawaiian kid in my class who would fly Delta (via DC-10 I think) to Hawaii from SAN to visit family. This was around 1994 or so, and I'm pretty sure it was non-stop too.

When DL bought WA in 1987, SAN-HNL continued seamlessly, eventually shifting to an L-1011 (as DL got rid of the DC-10s.) I remember that the complete routing was CVG-SAN-HNL-SAN-CVG (at least for some of the existence of DL's service) with HNL-SAN being a red-eye, with a morning continuation to CVG. This way, the DL hub in CVG at least had daily direct (no-plane-change) service to Hawaii.

Just for fun, I am looking at Western's Employee Flight Schedule -- a single sheet of white paper 2.5' wide and 11" high -- covering the period of Mar 1, 1978 thru Apr 29, 1978. These were created for every timetable WA issued and I got my travel agency on the mailing list for them; I always got excessively excited whenever I saw them show up at the office and couldn't wait to study them! It shows each and every flight op'd by WA in the old-style linear timetable format. (I have a large collection of them!)

This particular one shows 2 daily flights to HNL:
SAN:10:05a #551 All Coach Class B-720B ("B707 Eff 4/20")
HNL: 1:50p (complete routing DEN-PHX-SAN-HNL) and

SAN: 2:00p #553 All Coach Class B-707 ("DC-10 Eff 4/20")
HNL: 5:45p (complete routing: DEN-SAN-HNL)

HNL:11:30p #554 All Coach Class B-707 ("DC-10 Eff 4/20")
SAN: 6:48a +1 (complete routing: HNL-SAN-DEN) and

HNL: 1:05p #550 All Coach Class B-720B ("B707 Eff 4/20")
SAN: 8:23p (complete routing: HNL-SAN-DEN)

Those were the days!

bb
 
vedatil4
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Nov 17, 2019 9:17 am

Warning: This is a minor rant about a recent San Diego airport experience.

I just returned from Europe. I flew from San Diego to Madrid roundtrip with a layover in Atlanta both ways.

After we returned, I couldn't help but compare and contrast how Europe handles moving people to/from an airport versus San Diego. We used an express bus at Madrid to get downtown for 5 Euros. The last bus stop is a main train station from where you can go pretty much anywhere in the city or country. But in Malaga, we saw how there's a mini-bullet train called "cercanias' to move people straight from the airport to either downtown or to stations next to the beach resorts in no more than 30 minutes I'd say. I saw how both of those public transportation options were heavily used. In fact, it seemed like very few people used airport taxis or ride-share services.

Now, here's what I saw in San Diego: There were loooong lines for Uber and Lyft. I'd say about half the length of Terminal 2 to give you an idea. I stopped my girlfriend from starting a Lyft ride because I think a number is generated representing your position in the long line of people. Their competitor, Uber, was gouging at $55 for a ride to Chula Vista. But at least that line of people seemed to be moving. At the last moment, I decided we jump on the 992 bus just to get out of a super hectic and unpredictable scene and catch an uber starting in downtown. There were only 3 people total on the bus; super-low ridership for a busy airport!

I know there's a plan to build a "grand central" type of transportation station at the northwest corner of the airport. This needs to be completed ASAP. The traffic is only getting worse on Harbor Drive. Most people who live north or northeast of the airport are being picked up by friends or by a rideshare service (both use cars). There isn't a good public transportation for them. I'm lucky enough to live south of the airport so I have the option of riding the 992 bus and trolley.

In the meantime, there should at least be an additional bus route from the airport to a northerly transit center. People are overcrowding the rideshare area at San Diego airport. I can only imagine the madness there during Thanksgiving.

I'm hoping that someday there's a direct Europe flight landing in TIJ. There's waaay too much drama getting to/from San Diego airport, or LAX (gulp), and dealing with customs & immigration at major US airports. They made a huge stink in Atlanta over an obviously airport-bought, still sealed, ham sandwich we declared, and repeatedly stated were willing to throw away. We were treated like we had brought a live pig with us from Spain (grrr). We ended up running like hell through Atlanta airport to catch our connecting flight. It was nuts.

I'll deal with using the CBX over LAX or SAN to get to Europe on any day. At least there the customs and immigration people aren't so intense. I just need a direct flight to land in TIJ and hopefully a bus from the CBX to Iris Avenue trolley station.
 
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PacoMartin
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Nov 17, 2019 12:25 pm

vedatil4 wrote:
In fact, it seemed like very few people used airport taxis or ride-share services.

I don't think there is a US airport where the majority of people get there on public transport.

vedatil4 wrote:
I'm hoping that someday there's a direct Europe flight landing in TIJ. There's waaay too much drama getting to/from San Diego airport, or LAX (gulp), and dealing with customs & immigration at major US airports. I'll deal with using the CBX over LAX or SAN to get to Europe on any day. At least there the customs and immigration people aren't so intense. I just need a direct flight to land in TIJ ...


I see about 13.6% longer range to fly MAD-MEX-TIJ on Aeromexico compared to MAD-ATL-SAN on Delta. Did you consider that route?

Aeromexico is considering a nonstop from Paris to Guadalajara. It would be Mexico's first trans-Atlantic to an airport other than Mexico city or Cancun.

I doubt TIJ is high on the list for nonstops to Europe, but I imagine that Paris would be the first. Americans fly to these European cities (ranked in order)

London, United Kingdom
Paris, France
Frankfurt, Germany
Amsterdam, Netherlands
Dublin, Ireland
Madrid, Spain

If the airline is looking for San Diegans to use the CBX to fly to Europe then Paris would be the first choice as there already is a British airways non-stop to London from San Diego.

[quote="vedatil4] ... hopefully a bus from the CBX to Iris Avenue trolley station.[/quote]
Surprisingly unlikely. The Uber/Lyft mafia would howl like banshees.

Route #909 is about as close as you are going to get.
 
jbpdx
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Nov 17, 2019 1:38 pm

PacoMartin wrote:

Aeromexico is considering a nonstop from Paris to Guadalajara. It would be Mexico's first trans-Atlantic to an airport other than Mexico city or Cancun.




TUI UK flies Puerto Vallarta to Gatwick one day a week May—October.
^
 
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Coronado990
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Sun Nov 17, 2019 2:46 pm

vedatil4 wrote:
Warning: This is a minor rant about a recent San Diego airport experience.

I just returned from Europe. I flew from San Diego to Madrid roundtrip with a layover in Atlanta both ways.

After we returned, I couldn't help but compare and contrast how Europe handles moving people to/from an airport versus San Diego. We used an express bus at Madrid to get downtown for 5 Euros. The last bus stop is a main train station from where you can go pretty much anywhere in the city or country. But in Malaga, we saw how there's a mini-bullet train called "cercanias' to move people straight from the airport to either downtown or to stations next to the beach resorts in no more than 30 minutes I'd say. I saw how both of those public transportation options were heavily used. In fact, it seemed like very few people used airport taxis or ride-share services.

Now, here's what I saw in San Diego: There were loooong lines for Uber and Lyft. I'd say about half the length of Terminal 2 to give you an idea. I stopped my girlfriend from starting a Lyft ride because I think a number is generated representing your position in the long line of people. Their competitor, Uber, was gouging at $55 for a ride to Chula Vista. But at least that line of people seemed to be moving. At the last moment, I decided we jump on the 992 bus just to get out of a super hectic and unpredictable scene and catch an uber starting in downtown. There were only 3 people total on the bus; super-low ridership for a busy airport!

I know there's a plan to build a "grand central" type of transportation station at the northwest corner of the airport. This needs to be completed ASAP. The traffic is only getting worse on Harbor Drive. Most people who live north or northeast of the airport are being picked up by friends or by a rideshare service (both use cars). There isn't a good public transportation for them. I'm lucky enough to live south of the airport so I have the option of riding the 992 bus and trolley.

In the meantime, there should at least be an additional bus route from the airport to a northerly transit center. People are overcrowding the rideshare area at San Diego airport. I can only imagine the madness there during Thanksgiving.

I'm hoping that someday there's a direct Europe flight landing in TIJ. There's waaay too much drama getting to/from San Diego airport, or LAX (gulp), and dealing with customs & immigration at major US airports. They made a huge stink in Atlanta over an obviously airport-bought, still sealed, ham sandwich we declared, and repeatedly stated were willing to throw away. We were treated like we had brought a live pig with us from Spain (grrr). We ended up running like hell through Atlanta airport to catch our connecting flight. It was nuts.

I'll deal with using the CBX over LAX or SAN to get to Europe on any day. At least there the customs and immigration people aren't so intense. I just need a direct flight to land in TIJ and hopefully a bus from the CBX to Iris Avenue trolley station.


As long as airports profit from parking revenue, this will not change in the US.
SFO=NoCal LAX=SoCal SAN=LoCal
 
77H
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:08 am

PacoMartin wrote:
vedatil4 wrote:
In fact, it seemed like very few people used airport taxis or ride-share services.

I don't think there is a US airport where the majority of people get there on public transport.

vedatil4 wrote:
I'm hoping that someday there's a direct Europe flight landing in TIJ. There's waaay too much drama getting to/from San Diego airport, or LAX (gulp), and dealing with customs & immigration at major US airports. I'll deal with using the CBX over LAX or SAN to get to Europe on any day. At least there the customs and immigration people aren't so intense. I just need a direct flight to land in TIJ ...


I see about 13.6% longer range to fly MAD-MEX-TIJ on Aeromexico compared to MAD-ATL-SAN on Delta. Did you consider that route?

Aeromexico is considering a nonstop from Paris to Guadalajara. It would be Mexico's first trans-Atlantic to an airport other than Mexico city or Cancun.

I doubt TIJ is high on the list for nonstops to Europe, but I imagine that Paris would be the first. Americans fly to these European cities (ranked in order)

London, United Kingdom
Paris, France
Frankfurt, Germany
Amsterdam, Netherlands
Dublin, Ireland
Madrid, Spain

If the airline is looking for San Diegans to use the CBX to fly to Europe then Paris would be the first choice as there already is a British airways non-stop to London from San Diego.

[quote="vedatil4] ... hopefully a bus from the CBX to Iris Avenue trolley station.[/quote]
Surprisingly unlikely. The Uber/Lyft mafia would howl like banshees.

Route #909 is about as close as you are going to get.[/quote]


ORD is probably the closest one would get in the US with the CTA Blue Line connected right to the terminal. Every time I’ve used it it’s been packed.

77H
 
tootallsd
Posts: 529
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:36 am

The issue is very broad, it is America's aversion to public transit of any type. Perhaps, once we are all permanently parked in our cars, we will be willing to try new fangled ideas like buses, trains, etc. But not any time soon.
 
cheapflier
Posts: 44
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:21 am

Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:22 am

Coronado990 wrote:
As long as airports profit from parking revenue, this will not change in the US.


The airport also makes a nice chunk of change off of every Uber and Lyft trip...I think it's something like $3-$4 a ride. Every other form of transportation except transit make the airport money. Even friend/family pickups could result in concession or parking revenue. I'm looking forward to the new shuttle to Old Town, but it's far from a magic wand.

vedatil4 wrote:
Warning: This is a minor rant about a recent San Diego airport experience.

I just returned from Europe. I flew from San Diego to Madrid roundtrip with a layover in Atlanta both ways.

After we returned, I couldn't help but compare and contrast how Europe handles moving people to/from an airport versus San Diego. We used an express bus at Madrid to get downtown for 5 Euros. The last bus stop is a main train station from where you can go pretty much anywhere in the city or country. But in Malaga, we saw how there's a mini-bullet train called "cercanias' to move people straight from the airport to either downtown or to stations next to the beach resorts in no more than 30 minutes I'd say. I saw how both of those public transportation options were heavily used. In fact, it seemed like very few people used airport taxis or ride-share services.

Now, here's what I saw in San Diego: There were loooong lines for Uber and Lyft. I'd say about half the length of Terminal 2 to give you an idea. I stopped my girlfriend from starting a Lyft ride because I think a number is generated representing your position in the long line of people. Their competitor, Uber, was gouging at $55 for a ride to Chula Vista. But at least that line of people seemed to be moving. At the last moment, I decided we jump on the 992 bus just to get out of a super hectic and unpredictable scene and catch an uber starting in downtown. There were only 3 people total on the bus; super-low ridership for a busy airport!

I know there's a plan to build a "grand central" type of transportation station at the northwest corner of the airport. This needs to be completed ASAP. The traffic is only getting worse on Harbor Drive. Most people who live north or northeast of the airport are being picked up by friends or by a rideshare service (both use cars). There isn't a good public transportation for them. I'm lucky enough to live south of the airport so I have the option of riding the 992 bus and trolley.

In the meantime, there should at least be an additional bus route from the airport to a northerly transit center. People are overcrowding the rideshare area at San Diego airport. I can only imagine the madness there during Thanksgiving.

I'm hoping that someday there's a direct Europe flight landing in TIJ. There's waaay too much drama getting to/from San Diego airport, or LAX (gulp), and dealing with customs & immigration at major US airports. They made a huge stink in Atlanta over an obviously airport-bought, still sealed, ham sandwich we declared, and repeatedly stated were willing to throw away. We were treated like we had brought a live pig with us from Spain (grrr). We ended up running like hell through Atlanta airport to catch our connecting flight. It was nuts.

I'll deal with using the CBX over LAX or SAN to get to Europe on any day. At least there the customs and immigration people aren't so intense. I just need a direct flight to land in TIJ and hopefully a bus from the CBX to Iris Avenue trolley station.


Lyft is using a new PIN system where, based on when you order the ride, you take the next driver to pull up. Give them the number and away you go. No more searching for a specific car. It's like a taxi, but with an app....

One could argue the 992 bus works the same as the example from Madrid...it's a bus that takes you to a central location where you can connect anywhere for a reasonable $2.50, but as someone who has been to Madrid, I agree (personally I prefer the Cercanías to MAD, but that's besides the point). I'd love to see the 992 with expanded service. I'd also like to see the airport better promote the Trolley-Terminal shuttle (now rental car shuttle stop) that goes near Middletown station. Unfortunately money talks with the airport.
 
vedatil4
Posts: 140
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:37 am

PacoMartin wrote:
vedatil4 wrote:
In fact, it seemed like very few people used airport taxis or ride-share services.

I don't think there is a US airport where the majority of people get there on public transport.

vedatil4 wrote:
I'm hoping that someday there's a direct Europe flight landing in TIJ. There's waaay too much drama getting to/from San Diego airport, or LAX (gulp), and dealing with customs & immigration at major US airports. I'll deal with using the CBX over LAX or SAN to get to Europe on any day. At least there the customs and immigration people aren't so intense. I just need a direct flight to land in TIJ ...


I see about 13.6% longer range to fly MAD-MEX-TIJ on Aeromexico compared to MAD-ATL-SAN on Delta. Did you consider that route?

Aeromexico is considering a nonstop from Paris to Guadalajara. It would be Mexico's first trans-Atlantic to an airport other than Mexico city or Cancun.

I doubt TIJ is high on the list for nonstops to Europe, but I imagine that Paris would be the first. Americans fly to these European cities (ranked in order)

London, United Kingdom
Paris, France
Frankfurt, Germany
Amsterdam, Netherlands
Dublin, Ireland
Madrid, Spain

If the airline is looking for San Diegans to use the CBX to fly to Europe then Paris would be the first choice as there already is a British airways non-stop to London from San Diego.

[quote="vedatil4] ... hopefully a bus from the CBX to Iris Avenue trolley station.[/quote]
Surprisingly unlikely. The Uber/Lyft mafia would howl like banshees.

Route #909 is about as close as you are going to get.[/quote]


Actually, I did consider the TIJ-MEX-MAD route. I decided against it mainly because the MEX-MAD portion would be on a dreamliner versus a 767-300ER. We'd rather have two seats by a window instead of three. Asking a stranger to get up from their seat to get to the bathroom sucks. Also I heard that dreamliner seats are too narrrow towards the back of the plane.

A thing I didn't mention in my rant is that the carrier I was on, Delta, had strange people asking you lots of questions about where you'd been before the check-in counters. The plane was also parked at the far end of a terminal in a semi-separated area with no bathroom or amenities. Is this common for US carriers coming back from Europe now? I was surprised by all the questions being asked by contracted staff with laptops who didn't identify themselves first. I really thought I might be talking to a Russian spy.

Also, I was surprised to be asked to go through security again when making the connection in Atlanta. I hadn't factored that in my connection time.

'Tis a shame more people don't go to Spain from San Diego. There's lots to see there but especially the southern part. The Alhambra is a sight to behold.
 
vedatil4
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:42 am

jbpdx wrote:
PacoMartin wrote:

Aeromexico is considering a nonstop from Paris to Guadalajara. It would be Mexico's first trans-Atlantic to an airport other than Mexico city or Cancun.




TUI UK flies Puerto Vallarta to Gatwick one day a week May—October.


TUI also just started a London to Cabo flight a few days ago.

Emirates will start a Mexico City to Barcelona flight soon. I saw the ads at the Barcelona metro stations.
 
vedatil4
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:52 am

cheapflier wrote:
Coronado990 wrote:
As long as airports profit from parking revenue, this will not change in the US.


The airport also makes a nice chunk of change off of every Uber and Lyft trip...I think it's something like $3-$4 a ride. Every other form of transportation except transit make the airport money. Even friend/family pickups could result in concession or parking revenue. I'm looking forward to the new shuttle to Old Town, but it's far from a magic wand.

vedatil4 wrote:
Warning: This is a minor rant about a recent San Diego airport experience.

I just returned from Europe. I flew from San Diego to Madrid roundtrip with a layover in Atlanta both ways.

After we returned, I couldn't help but compare and contrast how Europe handles moving people to/from an airport versus San Diego. We used an express bus at Madrid to get downtown for 5 Euros. The last bus stop is a main train station from where you can go pretty much anywhere in the city or country. But in Malaga, we saw how there's a mini-bullet train called "cercanias' to move people straight from the airport to either downtown or to stations next to the beach resorts in no more than 30 minutes I'd say. I saw how both of those public transportation options were heavily used. In fact, it seemed like very few people used airport taxis or ride-share services.

Now, here's what I saw in San Diego: There were loooong lines for Uber and Lyft. I'd say about half the length of Terminal 2 to give you an idea. I stopped my girlfriend from starting a Lyft ride because I think a number is generated representing your position in the long line of people. Their competitor, Uber, was gouging at $55 for a ride to Chula Vista. But at least that line of people seemed to be moving. At the last moment, I decided we jump on the 992 bus just to get out of a super hectic and unpredictable scene and catch an uber starting in downtown. There were only 3 people total on the bus; super-low ridership for a busy airport!

I know there's a plan to build a "grand central" type of transportation station at the northwest corner of the airport. This needs to be completed ASAP. The traffic is only getting worse on Harbor Drive. Most people who live north or northeast of the airport are being picked up by friends or by a rideshare service (both use cars). There isn't a good public transportation for them. I'm lucky enough to live south of the airport so I have the option of riding the 992 bus and trolley.

In the meantime, there should at least be an additional bus route from the airport to a northerly transit center. People are overcrowding the rideshare area at San Diego airport. I can only imagine the madness there during Thanksgiving.

I'm hoping that someday there's a direct Europe flight landing in TIJ. There's waaay too much drama getting to/from San Diego airport, or LAX (gulp), and dealing with customs & immigration at major US airports. They made a huge stink in Atlanta over an obviously airport-bought, still sealed, ham sandwich we declared, and repeatedly stated were willing to throw away. We were treated like we had brought a live pig with us from Spain (grrr). We ended up running like hell through Atlanta airport to catch our connecting flight. It was nuts.

I'll deal with using the CBX over LAX or SAN to get to Europe on any day. At least there the customs and immigration people aren't so intense. I just need a direct flight to land in TIJ and hopefully a bus from the CBX to Iris Avenue trolley station.


Lyft is using a new PIN system where, based on when you order the ride, you take the next driver to pull up. Give them the number and away you go. No more searching for a specific car. It's like a taxi, but with an app....

One could argue the 992 bus works the same as the example from Madrid...it's a bus that takes you to a central location where you can connect anywhere for a reasonable $2.50, but as someone who has been to Madrid, I agree (personally I prefer the Cercanías to MAD, but that's besides the point). I'd love to see the 992 with expanded service. I'd also like to see the airport better promote the Trolley-Terminal shuttle (now rental car shuttle stop) that goes near Middletown station. Unfortunately money talks with the airport.


Thanks for confirming what I had suspected at the time. Lyft didn't make this clear on their app. I saw too many people waiting to be picked up and too few Lyft cars.

We didn't use the Cercanias train in Madrid because we flew in/out of terminal 1. I used one in Malaga though. It was wonderful. Kind of like a mini-bullet train. I couldn't help but compare with our trolley. That's more like a european streetcar than a real metro.

It was also really sad for me to see a bullet train fly past us on a road in Morocco. It made our Amtrak to LA look like a steam-powered locomotive.
 
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PacoMartin
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:36 am

vedatil4 wrote:
We didn't use the Cercanias train in Madrid because we flew in/out of terminal 1. I used one in Malaga though. It was wonderful. Kind of like a mini-bullet train. I couldn't help but compare with our trolley. That's more like a european streetcar than a real metro. It was also really sad for me to see a bullet train fly past us on a road in Morocco. It made our Amtrak to LA look like a steam-powered locomotive.


In comparisons the trolley comes up a little short. The most successful section of the Trolley was the original one, a 12 miles no frills line to the border. It was built quickly and cheaply since it was reviving a train that used to run before WWII, and it carries more people per mile than any other section of the trolley.

The 53.5 mile San Diego Trolley with 55 stations cannot exceed a top speed of 55 mph (but given the frequent stops averages about 25-30 mph). Annual ridership is 39.7 million.
The 41 mile San Diego Coaster with 8 stations cannot exceed a top speed 90 mph.
The 105 mile Los Angeles Metro Rail with 93 stations has different maximum speeds if you are on 2 heavy rail or 4 subway lines .Annual ridership is 108.0 million.

Cercanías Madrid is 230 miles long with 90 stations and a top speed of 75 mph. Annual ridership is 227.8 million. There are 10 other cercania systems in Spain, and a similar, but longer system (382 miles) called "Rodalies de Catalunya" around Barcelona

The vast majority of trains in the United States cannot exceed 79 mph.

Passenger train maximum limits by track class in the USA
Class 1 15 mph
Class 2 30 mph
Class 3 60 mph without block signal systems. (dark territory.)
Class 4 80 mph Trains without "an automatic cab signal, automatic train stop or automatic train control system "
Class 5 90 mph
Class 6 110 mph
Class 7 125 mph
Class 8 160 mph
 
AirFiero
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:52 pm

tootallsd wrote:
The issue is very broad, it is America's aversion to public transit of any type. Perhaps, once we are all permanently parked in our cars, we will be willing to try new fangled ideas like buses, trains, etc. But not any time soon.


Most of the United States is much more spread out than cities and countries in Europe. Cities in Europe are much desnser, and have been for centuries. Public transportation is a lot more difficult to get to work here. That’s just the reality of the situation.
 
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hawaiian717
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:29 pm

vedatil4 wrote:
I know there's a plan to build a "grand central" type of transportation station at the northwest corner of the airport. This needs to be completed ASAP. The traffic is only getting worse on Harbor Drive. Most people who live north or northeast of the airport are being picked up by friends or by a rideshare service (both use cars). There isn't a good public transportation for them. I'm lucky enough to live south of the airport so I have the option of riding the 992 bus and trolley.

In the meantime, there should at least be an additional bus route from the airport to a northerly transit center. People are overcrowding the rideshare area at San Diego airport. I can only imagine the madness there during Thanksgiving.


ASAP isn't going to happen. Construction hasn't even started, and NAVWAR has to have its new facility built and moved in before the existing facility inside the old Convair hangars can be demolished to make way for the Grand Central terminal.

I used to think the same thing about how going downtown on 992 to catch the trolley or something to head north is so far out of the way, and that continuing 992 or having some other bus to Old Town makes more sense. However after looking at a map I realize it's really not really as bad as it might seem. The airport is east-west oriented, and Old Town is essentially due north of terminal 2. So you have to head kinda far west then double back north-east bound to reach Old Town via Rosecrans. However I did hear something about the airport authority starting a shuttle to Old Town so it seems like there is something to the idea.

The other issue though with transit to the airport is the first mile problem. People have to get themselves and their luggage to wherever the bus or trolley stop is. If people already have to drive, they might as well drive all the way to the airport. And once on board, our transit isn't traveller oriented, other than the 992 bus there generally isn't much in the way of luggage accommodations on our busses and trolleys. Amtrak certainly can handle luggage (and offers checked luggage service), but I'm not sure about Coaster. I once took Metrolink from LA to Oceanside after flying to LAX from Asia and there wasn't anything special for luggage accommodation on those trains that we saw and just have to have our suitcases at our feet.

vedatil4 wrote:
A thing I didn't mention in my rant is that the carrier I was on, Delta, had strange people asking you lots of questions about where you'd been before the check-in counters. The plane was also parked at the far end of a terminal in a semi-separated area with no bathroom or amenities. Is this common for US carriers coming back from Europe now? I was surprised by all the questions being asked by contracted staff with laptops who didn't identify themselves first. I really thought I might be talking to a Russian spy.

Also, I was surprised to be asked to go through security again when making the connection in Atlanta. I hadn't factored that in my connection time.


Both of these are normal. Many European airports they ask you either at the counter when you check your bags or have someone set up earlier in in the check in line to ask the questions. In Amsterdam, Delta has separate desks to ask these security questions as you head to the checkpoint, and also have a whole setup post-security at gate D1 to handle them (in fact, all Delta flights departing AMS show gate D1 as the departure gate on the boarding pass, and when you stop at the desk or D1, after the questions are done they give you the actual gate). In all these cases too, they put a sticker on the back of your passport to show that you've completed the check.

As far as going through security, that's the norm all over the world for international flights. In most cases upon arrival on an international flight, the country you're in will make you go through a security check before catching a connecting flight. Amsterdam is the exception that stands out in my mind; they don't require this check if you are arriving from certain countries including the US, Canada, the UK, and the Schengen area.
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Nov 18, 2019 5:17 pm

Just to throw in a topic change, I've been looking at advance skeds for next year on AS. (Yes, I understand October 2020 is WAY far off and extremely subject to change...) That being understood, I think this is quite interesting in view of WN entering the SAN-HI markets next April.

I see that as of now, AS appears to be staying daily to both LIH and KOA after the peak summer travel period ends (which looks to be on 8/18/20.) Both routes remain daily thru the current open booking window ending date of 10/13/20! I find this indicative of AS's intent to fight for their Hawaii market share from SDIA.

Unfortunately, I also see that the 2nd OGG nonstop appears to be ending on 8/18. That could hopefully be extended of course.

In related news, our newly "seasonal" service to BWI which re-starts on 5/22/20 is also showing still op'ing thru the close of the booking window in October. No way to tell what AS's intent is with the route but at least, as of now, they apparently didn't re-start BWI just for the peak summer season. We'll see what happens... heck we might wake up one of these mornings and find a SAN-IAD flight announced by AS, either replacing or supplementing the BWI service.

As a reminder and summary, AS is planning on doubling up service in the following markets in 2020: AUS, BOI, BOS, OGG STS while MCO & SJC will also see additional frequencies. And I continue to believe that SAN will see more good AS stuff in 2020 -- I just don't think they're done yet!

bb
 
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Coronado990
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Nov 18, 2019 5:58 pm

Just to sway back to the transit topic momentarily, our problem is backwards as we are not trying to get from the center city to the airport fast as in other major metro areas. Instead our little airport is "center city" and we must get the O&D passengers from the outlying areas to and from the airport. SAN has many overnight RON flights which means many flights leave early and many arrive late at night. Now, who is going to take a bus or trolley downtown to connect to the 992 to catch a 6:30am flight? And who is going to land at 10:00pm and try to get home on the 992 which would problably require a double connection to reach the corners of San Diego? Nothing runs that late anyway. The 992 cuts back to every 30 minutes after 6pm so the wait is longer just when arrivals get heavy. If you live downtown this sevice is great but it isn't going to work for the rest of us which would require dedicated fly/drive parking structures at select stations along the trolley lines and schedule dedicted trains directly to the airport terminal.
SFO=NoCal LAX=SoCal SAN=LoCal
 
757SanCam
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:23 pm

Regarding driving south on Harbor Dr, east to Grape St, to get on I-5 south from the airport, here's a traffic engineering feat that has me scratching my head. As you sit in one of the three left turn lanes waiting to go east on Grape, pedestrians have pushed the walk button which is on the south side of this intersection, bringing many many cars to a stop for a long red. The point being that cars turning left off of Harbor Dr would not impede the cross walk traffic. I drive this almost every Sunday and it's absolutely ridiculous that traffic engineers can't figure out that traffic turning east on Grape St and pedestrians crossing on the south side of this intersection can both move at the same time! Pedestrians cannot cross Harbor on the north side where all the traffic is lined up to turn left on Grape St. I rest my case, phew!!!!
 
WN732
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:24 pm

PacoMartin wrote:
According to SAN history
1983 : United Airlines began offering daily flights from San Diego to Honolulu, the first such regularly scheduled service to Hawaii. Obviously these flights must have stopped at some point.

I lived in San Diego from 1997 to 2005 and I don't remember ever being able to fly non-stop to Hawaii. We always went via LAX which was a real pain. When did nonstop flights resume?

I assume it was after 2010 when the first Airbus A330-200 were delivered to HA.


I flew an HA 767 back in 2003. SAN-HNL OGG-SAN
 
vedatil4
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Nov 19, 2019 12:22 am

757SanCam wrote:
Regarding driving south on Harbor Dr, east to Grape St, to get on I-5 south from the airport, here's a traffic engineering feat that has me scratching my head. As you sit in one of the three left turn lanes waiting to go east on Grape, pedestrians have pushed the walk button which is on the south side of this intersection, bringing many many cars to a stop for a long red. The point being that cars turning left off of Harbor Dr would not impede the cross walk traffic. I drive this almost every Sunday and it's absolutely ridiculous that traffic engineers can't figure out that traffic turning east on Grape St and pedestrians crossing on the south side of this intersection can both move at the same time! Pedestrians cannot cross Harbor on the north side where all the traffic is lined up to turn left on Grape St. I rest my case, phew!!!!


Good catch! I hadn't noticed that until you pointed it out. Add it to the WTF list of San Diego traffic oddities. Here's a few; no south I-5 to west I-8, no bridge across Rose Canyon, and north Route 125 terminating at Hwy 52. But my #1 peeve is putting a bus stop a mile away from the CBX terminal. Kinda reminds me of the movie Airplane. There's a scene where someone says "how 'bout we turn the search lights on" then someone says "no, that's what they'd be expecting us to do".
 
redrooster3
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Nov 19, 2019 10:43 am

757SanCam wrote:
Regarding driving south on Harbor Dr, east to Grape St, to get on I-5 south from the airport, here's a traffic engineering feat that has me scratching my head. As you sit in one of the three left turn lanes waiting to go east on Grape, pedestrians have pushed the walk button which is on the south side of this intersection, bringing many many cars to a stop for a long red. The point being that cars turning left off of Harbor Dr would not impede the cross walk traffic. I drive this almost every Sunday and it's absolutely ridiculous that traffic engineers can't figure out that traffic turning east on Grape St and pedestrians crossing on the south side of this intersection can both move at the same time! Pedestrians cannot cross Harbor on the north side where all the traffic is lined up to turn left on Grape St. I rest my case, phew!!!!


Grape street gave me grey hairs in my beard 5 days a week at 530pm getting off work at SAN to go home. The light rotations among grape street, and the amount of traffic built up on 5-South is something they should be investigating for future revamp if they want to keep adding more passengers to SAN.
Marry one of us, and you'll fly for free!
 
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Tue Nov 19, 2019 11:27 pm

Just saw the LH A340 take off on runway 9 on its way back to Frankfurt. Wonder if it was fully loaded?
 
SANMAN66
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Nov 20, 2019 12:22 am

ajlombardi2 wrote:
Just saw the LH A340 take off on runway 9 on its way back to Frankfurt. Wonder if it was fully loaded?


It probably was. I have no doubts that an A343 can do
runway 9 takeoffs. The BA 744 has done it when the fog rolled in. (There's a couple of YouTube videos of the BA 744 doing a runway 9 takeoff).
PSA Gives you a lift!
 
SAN757
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Nov 20, 2019 2:12 am

 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Nov 20, 2019 2:50 am

SAN757 wrote:
The JAL flight will remain at NRT.

Yes, as expected. What I find interesting is that several other U.S. gateways are also retaining their Narita-only service:
•Boston (BOS): Daily Narita on a 787-9
•Chicago O’Hare: Daily Haneda on a 777-300ER, and daily Narita on a 787-9 from Feb. 21, 2021
•Dallas/Fort Worth: Daily Haneda on a 787-9 (replaces daily Narita)
•Guam (GUM): Daily Narita on a 777-200
•Honolulu: Twice daily Haneda on 787-9s (replaces two of four daily Narita flights), and twice daily Narita on a Boeing 767-300ER and 777-200
•Kona (KOA): Daily Narita on a 767-300ER
•Los Angeles: Daily Haneda on a 777-300ER (replaces one of two daily Narita flights), and daily Narita on a 787-9
•New York JFK: Twice daily Haneda on a 777-300ER (replaces daily Haneda and Narita flights)
•San Diego (SAN): Daily Narita on a 787-8
•San Francisco: Daily Haneda on a 777-300ER, and daily Narita on a 787-9
•Seattle: Daily Narita on a 787-8

Also, I note that SAN is still served by the 788 but I guess it's in the new configuration. I guess that airplane is the best fit for us.

bb
 
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Nov 20, 2019 4:07 am

Coronado990 wrote:
Just to sway back to the transit topic momentarily, our problem is backwards as we are not trying to get from the center city to the airport fast as in other major metro areas. Instead our little airport is "center city" and we must get the O&D passengers from the outlying areas to and from the airport. SAN has many overnight RON flights which means many flights leave early and many arrive late at night. Now, who is going to take a bus or trolley downtown to connect to the 992 to catch a 6:30 AM flight? And who is going to land at 10:00pm and try to get home on the 992 which would probably require a double connection to reach the corners of San Diego? Nothing runs that late anyway. The 992 cuts back to every 30 minutes after 6pm so the wait is longer just when arrivals get heavy. If you live downtown this service is great but it isn't going to work for the rest of us which would require dedicated fly/drive parking structures at select stations along the trolley lines and schedule dedicated trains directly to the airport terminal.


Here's my line of thinking: While mass transit isn't for everyone, an off-site remote drop off location, preferably the Middletown Trolley station, could work as a multi-modal facility. As an Uber/Lyft/private car drop-off location right near I-5 North and South access, it would provide an alternative to the necessity of terminal drop-offs. It wouldn't replace, it would only supplement. Bus and trolley routes would stop there and tie into a light rail connection between terminals (landside), that would continue on to Middletown, the rental car facility, and possibly the SPAWARS site.

757SanCam wrote:
Regarding driving south on Harbor Dr, east to Grape St, to get on I-5 south from the airport, here's a traffic engineering feat that has me scratching my head. As you sit in one of the three left turn lanes waiting to go east on Grape, pedestrians have pushed the walk button which is on the south side of this intersection, bringing many many cars to a stop for a long red. The point being that cars turning left off of Harbor Dr would not impede the cross walk traffic. I drive this almost every Sunday and it's absolutely ridiculous that traffic engineers can't figure out that traffic turning east on Grape St and pedestrians crossing on the south side of this intersection can both move at the same time! Pedestrians cannot cross Harbor on the north side where all the traffic is lined up to turn left on Grape St. I rest my case, phew!!!!


I am NOT a fan of our traffic engineers in San Diego - a lot of traffic lights are badly timed, creating more traffic than is necessary, but in this case, I believe this is the reasoning: Grape Street can only handle a certain amount of cars per cycle, and that additional left-turn traffic from Harbor Drive to Grape Street is would overload it. Harbor Drive has sufficient room to handle larger numbers of automobile than Grape Street can. Given also the unpredictable nature of the busy rail corridor that crosses Grape & Hawthorne at grade level, and you have severely constrained roadways.

That's just my guess.

WN732 wrote:
PacoMartin wrote:
According to SAN history
1983 : United Airlines began offering daily flights from San Diego to Honolulu, the first such regularly scheduled service to Hawaii. Obviously these flights must have stopped at some point.

I lived in San Diego from 1997 to 2005 and I don't remember ever being able to fly non-stop to Hawaii. We always went via LAX which was a real pain. When did nonstop flights resume?

I assume it was after 2010 when the first Airbus A330-200 were delivered to HA.


I flew an HA 767 back in 2003. SAN-HNL OGG-SAN


There were no non-stops from SAN to anywhere in Hawai'i in 2000, when I went for the first time. Flew SAN-LAX-HNL and KOA-LAX-SAN on UA. However, within two years Hawaiian began service to SAN. I also flew a 767 to/from HNL.

SANMAN66 wrote:
ajlombardi2 wrote:
Just saw the LH A340 take off on runway 9 on its way back to Frankfurt. Wonder if it was fully loaded?


It probably was. I have no doubts that an A343 can do
runway 9 takeoffs. The BA 744 has done it when the fog rolled in. (There's a couple of YouTube videos of the BA 744 doing a runway 9 takeoff).


4-engines 4-clearance of Balboa Park.

SANFan wrote:
SAN757 wrote:
The JAL flight will remain at NRT.

Yes, as expected. What I find interesting is that several other U.S. gateways are also retaining their Narita-only service:
•Boston (BOS): Daily Narita on a 787-9
•Chicago O’Hare: Daily Haneda on a 777-300ER, and daily Narita on a 787-9 from Feb. 21, 2021
•Dallas/Fort Worth: Daily Haneda on a 787-9 (replaces daily Narita)
•Guam (GUM): Daily Narita on a 777-200
•Honolulu: Twice daily Haneda on 787-9s (replaces two of four daily Narita flights), and twice daily Narita on a Boeing 767-300ER and 777-200
•Kona (KOA): Daily Narita on a 767-300ER
•Los Angeles: Daily Haneda on a 777-300ER (replaces one of two daily Narita flights), and daily Narita on a 787-9
•New York JFK: Twice daily Haneda on a 777-300ER (replaces daily Haneda and Narita flights)
•San Diego (SAN): Daily Narita on a 787-8
•San Francisco: Daily Haneda on a 777-300ER, and daily Narita on a 787-9
•Seattle: Daily Narita on a 787-8

Also, I note that SAN is still served by the 788 but I guess it's in the new configuration. I guess that airplane is the best fit for us.

bb


So one would consider HND the premium O&D airport for Tokyo, and NRT remains the big international airport with lots of connections available. Since SAN is keeping the NRT flight, can we conclude that there isn't enough premium traffic from SAN to ONLY Tokyo? Can we conclude that the a significant amount of premium traffic - which this route is obviously carrying - is using NRT for connections? I know we mention the Manila Express, with many seats being sold SAN-NRT-MNL-NRT-SAN and vice versa, but a definitive answer would prove to be interesting.
 
Yahnih
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Nov 20, 2019 12:12 pm

https://www.moodiedavittreport.com/san- ... ncessions/

just thought I'd share this. it has also interesting statistics about SAN

Image
 
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PacoMartin
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Nov 20, 2019 2:02 pm

Yahnih wrote:
just thought I'd share this. it has also interesting statistics about SAN

The rank of the top 10 international destinations for an aiport that has 9 international destinations.
Three in Canada, two in Mexico, Tokyo, London, Frankfurt, and seasonal to Zurich.
 
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hawaiian717
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Nov 20, 2019 5:29 pm

PacoMartin wrote:
The rank of the top 10 international destinations for an aiport that has 9 international destinations.
Three in Canada, two in Mexico, Tokyo, London, Frankfurt, and seasonal to Zurich.


It looks like they included last year's two-time CDG-SAN Air France flights.
 
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PacoMartin
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:32 pm

hawaiian717 wrote:
PacoMartin wrote:
The rank of the top 10 international destinations for an aiport that has 9 international destinations.
Three in Canada, two in Mexico, Tokyo, London, Frankfurt, and seasonal to Zurich.


It looks like they included last year's two-time CDG-SAN Air France flights.

They had to get to top 10 and there was only 9 regularly scheduled destinations.

Montréal-Trudeau will be the 10th destination starting on June 15, 2020
 
SANMAN66
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:50 pm

PacoMartin wrote:
It looks like they included last year's two-time CDG-SAN Air France flights
They had to get to top 10 and there was only 9 regularly scheduled destinations.

Montréal-Trudeau will be the 10th destination starting on June 15, 2020


I wonder if that includes "Swoop"? SAN sure has been beefing up Canada lately. According to Wikipedia, the service by Swoop is only delayed until next summer.
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LindyFlight
Posts: 45
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2017 7:48 pm

Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:04 pm

PacoMartin wrote:
hawaiian717 wrote:
PacoMartin wrote:
The rank of the top 10 international destinations for an aiport that has 9 international destinations.
Three in Canada, two in Mexico, Tokyo, London, Frankfurt, and seasonal to Zurich.


It looks like they included last year's two-time CDG-SAN Air France flights.

They had to get to top 10 and there was only 9 regularly scheduled destinations.

Montréal-Trudeau will be the 10th destination starting on June 15, 2020


Two of the Air France flights (departure on 11/29/18 and arrival on 12/4/18) were sold as revenue.
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Nov 21, 2019 1:13 am

A couple of things I noticed on the chart of Int’l travel data for SAN.

Indian nationals appear to be increasing as pax at a rate 2nd only to Germans – up 35.4% (to Germany’s inc of 56.7%.) Both rather impressive but Germany of course is very easy to understand. What’s up with India? I would assume FRA might be the primary connecting point handling this great growth? Should we start wondering when SAN will see a nonstop to Delhi? (Mostly kidding...)

The other important trend seems to be the decrease in Mexican citizens flying to/from SAN – the only nationality listed with a decrease. And it’s a pretty healthy decrease – 22%. Looks like the Border Crossing Terminal IS having a measurable effect on some aspects of SAN’s Int’l pax traffic – as I feared would happen. Too bad IMHO.

I also see that Philippine nationals represent the 3rd largest increase at SAN (15.8%.) I don’t know if that can be read as encouraging regarding any possible new Int’l service in our future but it’s interesting to think about, no? L-Man -- any comments?

Finally, it’s not totally easy for me to figure out the graph to the right of the chart but disturbingly, it sure looks like int’l travel, or at least certain aspects of such travel, has certainly leveled off and might even be starting down… Not something I like to see.

Let's get KLM and KE (and PR) on board soon! I wonder what the SDCRAA board is thinking about this trend?

bb
 
blacksoviet
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:05 am

hawaiian717 wrote:
vedatil4 wrote:
I know there's a plan to build a "grand central" type of transportation station at the northwest corner of the airport. This needs to be completed ASAP. The traffic is only getting worse on Harbor Drive. Most people who live north or northeast of the airport are being picked up by friends or by a rideshare service (both use cars). There isn't a good public transportation for them. I'm lucky enough to live south of the airport so I have the option of riding the 992 bus and trolley.

In the meantime, there should at least be an additional bus route from the airport to a northerly transit center. People are overcrowding the rideshare area at San Diego airport. I can only imagine the madness there during Thanksgiving.


ASAP isn't going to happen. Construction hasn't even started, and NAVWAR has to have its new facility built and moved in before the existing facility inside the old Convair hangars can be demolished to make way for the Grand Central terminal.

I used to think the same thing about how going downtown on 992 to catch the trolley or something to head north is so far out of the way, and that continuing 992 or having some other bus to Old Town makes more sense. However after looking at a map I realize it's really not really as bad as it might seem. The airport is east-west oriented, and Old Town is essentially due north of terminal 2. So you have to head kinda far west then double back north-east bound to reach Old Town via Rosecrans. However I did hear something about the airport authority starting a shuttle to Old Town so it seems like there is something to the idea.

The other issue though with transit to the airport is the first mile problem. People have to get themselves and their luggage to wherever the bus or trolley stop is. If people already have to drive, they might as well drive all the way to the airport. And once on board, our transit isn't traveller oriented, other than the 992 bus there generally isn't much in the way of luggage accommodations on our busses and trolleys. Amtrak certainly can handle luggage (and offers checked luggage service), but I'm not sure about Coaster. I once took Metrolink from LA to Oceanside after flying to LAX from Asia and there wasn't anything special for luggage accommodation on those trains that we saw and just have to have our suitcases at our feet.

vedatil4 wrote:
A thing I didn't mention in my rant is that the carrier I was on, Delta, had strange people asking you lots of questions about where you'd been before the check-in counters. The plane was also parked at the far end of a terminal in a semi-separated area with no bathroom or amenities. Is this common for US carriers coming back from Europe now? I was surprised by all the questions being asked by contracted staff with laptops who didn't identify themselves first. I really thought I might be talking to a Russian spy.

Also, I was surprised to be asked to go through security again when making the connection in Atlanta. I hadn't factored that in my connection time.


Both of these are normal. Many European airports they ask you either at the counter when you check your bags or have someone set up earlier in in the check in line to ask the questions. In Amsterdam, Delta has separate desks to ask these security questions as you head to the checkpoint, and also have a whole setup post-security at gate D1 to handle them (in fact, all Delta flights departing AMS show gate D1 as the departure gate on the boarding pass, and when you stop at the desk or D1, after the questions are done they give you the actual gate). In all these cases too, they put a sticker on the back of your passport to show that you've completed the check.

As far as going through security, that's the norm all over the world for international flights. In most cases upon arrival on an international flight, the country you're in will make you go through a security check before catching a connecting flight. Amsterdam is the exception that stands out in my mind; they don't require this check if you are arriving from certain countries including the US, Canada, the UK, and the Schengen area.

Are the Convair hangars historic? Will the preservationists try to block some of these hangars from being demolished? When were these hangars built? Are these the same hangars that were used to build major sections of the MD-11s?
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
Topic Author
Posts: 1119
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Thu Nov 28, 2019 5:43 pm

SANFan wrote:
A couple of things I noticed on the chart of Int’l travel data for SAN.

Indian nationals appear to be increasing as pax at a rate 2nd only to Germans – up 35.4% (to Germany’s inc of 56.7%.) Both rather impressive but Germany of course is very easy to understand. What’s up with India? I would assume FRA might be the primary connecting point handling this great growth? Should we start wondering when SAN will see a nonstop to Delhi? (Mostly kidding...)

The other important trend seems to be the decrease in Mexican citizens flying to/from SAN – the only nationality listed with a decrease. And it’s a pretty healthy decrease – 22%. Looks like the Border Crossing Terminal IS having a measurable effect on some aspects of SAN’s Int’l pax traffic – as I feared would happen. Too bad IMHO.

I also see that Philippine nationals represent the 3rd largest increase at SAN (15.8%.) I don’t know if that can be read as encouraging regarding any possible new Int’l service in our future but it’s interesting to think about, no? L-Man -- any comments?

Finally, it’s not totally easy for me to figure out the graph to the right of the chart but disturbingly, it sure looks like int’l travel, or at least certain aspects of such travel, has certainly leveled off and might even be starting down… Not something I like to see.

Let's get KLM and KE (and PR) on board soon! I wonder what the SDCRAA board is thinking about this trend?

bb


And Copa!! Don't forget Copa!! <3

I would love to see the statistics on where Mexican nationals were flying to & from at SAN. Highly doubtful any Southern California-area Mexican nationals were schlepping down to SAN for any flights, as LAX or TIJ would be bigger draws. Tijuana residents, however, would choose SAN for their domestic U.S. needs. We definitely need more information on these statistics!!

For Philippine nationals, it sounds like JAL's NRT-SAN flight gets a LOT of connections from the Philippines. How many airports in the Philippines offer connections at NRT to the SAN flight? I know Manila is obvious; however, the ability to avoid that airport unless absolutely necessary could be a big incentive for transit travelers.

On a completely unrelated topic, there is a thread here about the FAA imposing fines on LH for operating "illegal flights". I won't go into the details (readers can check out that thread); however, there is a debate as to whether the A340's used for these flights have been LH's more premium heavy aircraft or Eurowings 18J-only aircraft. I have never heard anyone mention anything other than pure LH aircraft on this route, but I don't know this for 100% certainty. Anyone know for sure?
 
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LindyFlight
Posts: 45
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2017 7:48 pm

Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Nov 29, 2019 3:02 am

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
SANFan wrote:
A couple of things I noticed on the chart of Int’l travel data for SAN.

Indian nationals appear to be increasing as pax at a rate 2nd only to Germans – up 35.4% (to Germany’s inc of 56.7%.) Both rather impressive but Germany of course is very easy to understand. What’s up with India? I would assume FRA might be the primary connecting point handling this great growth? Should we start wondering when SAN will see a nonstop to Delhi? (Mostly kidding...)

The other important trend seems to be the decrease in Mexican citizens flying to/from SAN – the only nationality listed with a decrease. And it’s a pretty healthy decrease – 22%. Looks like the Border Crossing Terminal IS having a measurable effect on some aspects of SAN’s Int’l pax traffic – as I feared would happen. Too bad IMHO.

I also see that Philippine nationals represent the 3rd largest increase at SAN (15.8%.) I don’t know if that can be read as encouraging regarding any possible new Int’l service in our future but it’s interesting to think about, no? L-Man -- any comments?

Finally, it’s not totally easy for me to figure out the graph to the right of the chart but disturbingly, it sure looks like int’l travel, or at least certain aspects of such travel, has certainly leveled off and might even be starting down… Not something I like to see.

Let's get KLM and KE (and PR) on board soon! I wonder what the SDCRAA board is thinking about this trend?

bb


And Copa!! Don't forget Copa!! <3

I would love to see the statistics on where Mexican nationals were flying to & from at SAN. Highly doubtful any Southern California-area Mexican nationals were schlepping down to SAN for any flights, as LAX or TIJ would be bigger draws. Tijuana residents, however, would choose SAN for their domestic U.S. needs. We definitely need more information on these statistics!!

For Philippine nationals, it sounds like JAL's NRT-SAN flight gets a LOT of connections from the Philippines. How many airports in the Philippines offer connections at NRT to the SAN flight? I know Manila is obvious; however, the ability to avoid that airport unless absolutely necessary could be a big incentive for transit travelers.

On a completely unrelated topic, there is a thread here about the FAA imposing fines on LH for operating "illegal flights". I won't go into the details (readers can check out that thread); however, there is a debate as to whether the A340's used for these flights have been LH's more premium heavy aircraft or Eurowings 18J-only aircraft. I have never heard anyone mention anything other than pure LH aircraft on this route, but I don't know this for 100% certainty. Anyone know for sure?


All A340s that have operated on the FRA-SAN flight have been mainline by the looks of it.
 
SANMAN66
Posts: 970
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 1:37 pm

Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2019

Fri Nov 29, 2019 6:56 am

LindyFlight wrote:
All A340s that have operated on the FRA-SAN flight have been mainline by the looks of it.


I wonder if the Star Alliance A340s that LH sends here occasionally are CityLine planes? All of the
Lufthansa CityLine A340s are Star Alliance planes.
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